Caught a show called Time Warp on Discovery last night.

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/time-warp/time-warp.html

Had never seen the show before. Couple of guys do extremely high speed
video of all kinds of things. 1000fps 10,000fps range.

They had the guy with the Hot Dog Saw. He actually very slowly touched the
tip of one of his fingers to the blade for the show. No cuts or blood. He
was extremely reserved on his approach to say the least.

On 2010-08-11, Red Green wrote:

They had the guy with the Hot Dog Saw. He actually very slowly touched the
tip of one of his fingers to the blade for the show. No cuts or blood. He
was extremely reserved on his approach to say the least.

I watched a video of how that saw does its thing. Doesn't it just
about self destruct to stop in time? How much does it cost to get it
back up and running again after one of its "stop" events?

nb

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2010-08-11, Red Green wrote:

They had the guy with the Hot Dog Saw. He actually very slowly touched
the
tip of one of his fingers to the blade for the show. No cuts or blood. He
was extremely reserved on his approach to say the least.

I watched a video of how that saw does its thing. Doesn't it just
about self destruct to stop in time? How much does it cost to get it
back up and running again after one of its "stop" events?

nb

Less than the co-pay for a trip to the ER. The blade is ruined and a new
cartridge is in the $60 - $70 range IIRC. They are supposed to be pretty
foolproof to prevent accidental trips of the mechanism. There are lots of
fingers lost every ear, or worse, on table saws. I'd certainly consider a
Saw Stop if I was buying a new one.

On 8/11/2010 10:02 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2010-08-11, Red wrote:

They had the guy with the Hot Dog Saw. He actually very slowly touched the
tip of one of his fingers to the blade for the show. No cuts or blood. He
was extremely reserved on his approach to say the least.

I watched a video of how that saw does its thing. Doesn't it just
about self destruct to stop in time? How much does it cost to get it
back up and running again after one of its "stop" events?

nb

the way i understand it, the 'brake' mechanism is about $100 plus the
price of the blade it ruined. Then there's the labor and down time on
the saw. It's a worthless item, no one who uses their saw every day
would have one.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 8/11/2010 10:02 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2010-08-11, Red wrote:

They had the guy with the Hot Dog Saw. He actually very slowly touched the
tip of one of his fingers to the blade for the show. No cuts or blood. He
was extremely reserved on his approach to say the least.

I watched a video of how that saw does its thing. Doesn't it just
about self destruct to stop in time? How much does it cost to get it
back up and running again after one of its "stop" events?

nb

not to mention the false trips every time you run a piece of green
lumber through it.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Aug 11, 10:49*am, Red Green wrote:
Caught a show called Time Warp on Discovery last night.

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/time-warp/time-warp.html

Had never seen the show before. Couple of guys do extremely high speed
video of all kinds of things. 1000fps 10,000fps range.

They had the guy with the Hot Dog Saw. He actually very slowly touched the
tip of one of his fingers to the blade for the show. No cuts or blood. He
was extremely reserved on his approach to say the least.

That was the inventor, and even if you knew that the blade brake were
100% effective, I doubt you'd be any more eager to touch a spinning
blade.

R

On Aug 11, 11:28*am, Steve Barker wrote:

the way i understand it, the 'brake' mechanism is about $100 plus the
price of the blade it ruined. *Then there's the labor and down time on
the saw. *It's a worthless item, no one who uses their saw every day
would have one.

You believe that it less likely that there will be an accident if
someone uses something more? It doesn't quite work that way.

Do you have life insurance? Homeowner's insurance? Car insurance?
Ever use any of them? I'll take a stab at it and guess you've never
needed the first one...yet...but as far as the others if you haven't
used them, why do you have them?

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw. Those are people who use saws every day.
No one gets a free pass on accidents. Not amateurs, not pros.

R

On Aug 11, 11:29*am, Steve Barker wrote:

not to mention the false trips every time you run a piece of green
lumber through it.

Remember, read first, then post.

"SawStop saws cut most wet wood without a problem. However, if the
wood is very green or wet (for example, wet enough to spray a mist
when cutting), or if the wood is both wet and pressure treated, then
the wood may be sufficiently conductive to trigger the brake.
Accordingly, the best practice is to dry wet or green wood before
cutting by standing it inside and apart from other wood for about one
day. You can also cut wet pressure treated wood and other conductive
material by placing the saw in bypass mode to deactivate the safety
system."

R

On Aug 11, 12:00*pm, wrote:

... Until some weenie at OSHA or CPSC decides you need to have this

30 years ago who would have thought the government would require a
dead man's switch on a lawn mower..
I really believe that before I die they will ban sharp knives and
pointy scissors

I am the first to say that it is impossible to outlaw stupidity with
legislation, but the SawStop is simply better technology. The price
premium will come down, and so will the cost of used saws without the
brake. Everybody wins.

R

Red Green wrote:
Caught a show called Time Warp on Discovery last night.

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/time-warp/time-warp.html

Had never seen the show before. Couple of guys do extremely high speed
video of all kinds of things. 1000fps 10,000fps range.

They had the guy with the Hot Dog Saw. He actually very slowly touched the
tip of one of his fingers to the blade for the show. No cuts or blood. He
was extremely reserved on his approach to say the least.

I guess if you are too stupid to watch what you are doing you can get a
hot dog cutter.

--
LSMFT

I look outside this morning and everything was in 3D!

wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:28:54 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 8/11/2010 10:02 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2010-08-11, Red wrote:

They had the guy with the Hot Dog Saw. He actually very slowly
touched the tip of one of his fingers to the blade for the show.
No cuts or blood. He was extremely reserved on his approach to say
the least.

I watched a video of how that saw does its thing. Doesn't it just
about self destruct to stop in time? How much does it cost to get
it back up and running again after one of its "stop" events?

nb

the way i understand it, the 'brake' mechanism is about $100 plus the
price of the blade it ruined. Then there's the labor and down time
on the saw. It's a worthless item, no one who uses their saw every
day would have one.

... Until some weenie at OSHA or CPSC decides you need to have this

30 years ago who would have thought the government would require a
dead man's switch on a lawn mower..
I really believe that before I die they will ban sharp knives and
pointy scissors

they are well on that way in england.

On Aug 11, 12:28*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 11, 11:28*am, Steve Barker wrote:



the way i understand it, the 'brake' mechanism is about $100 plus the
price of the blade it ruined. *Then there's the labor and down time on
the saw. *It's a worthless item, no one who uses their saw every day
would have one.

You believe that it less likely that there will be an accident if
someone uses something more? *It doesn't quite work that way.

Do you have life insurance? *Homeowner's insurance? *Car insurance?
Ever use any of them? *I'll take a stab at it and guess you've never
needed the first one...yet...but as far as the others if you haven't
used them, why do you have them?

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw. *Those are people who use saws every day.
No one gets a free pass on accidents. *Not amateurs, not pros.

R

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw.

Then ask them if they have replaced the saw that bit them with a
SawStop.

On Aug 11, 12:55*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 11, 12:28*pm, RicodJour wrote:

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw.

Then ask them if they have replaced the saw that bit them with a SawStop.

You're missing my point, DD. The price premium is high - now. It'll
come down. The price is immaterial to the fact that it is a user-
selectable safety system that actually works, doesn't get in the way
of cuts, and is invisible in use. It's better technology.

A better question to ask over at the wreck would be, if you had a
choice of paying $2000 now and getting the tip of your finger back,
would you?

R

On 2010-08-11, wrote:

I really believe that before I die they will ban sharp knives and
pointy scissors

I don't know if they are banned by law, but I haven't seen anything
but blunt-end scissors in US grade schools in half a century. That's
just common sense. As for knives, look at this:

http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/graphics/dm0752.jpg

Not real sure WTF is going on there, but I jes bought Shun's Classic
10" chefs knife, the pointiest sharpest knife on the market. Damned
if I didn't nick myself the first time I used it, too! No safety
police in that check-out line.

nb

On Aug 11, 12:06*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 11, 12:55*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Aug 11, 12:28*pm, RicodJour wrote:

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw.

Then ask them if they have replaced the saw that bit them with a SawStop.

You're missing my point, DD. *The price premium is high - now. *It'll
come down. *The price is immaterial to the fact that it is a user-
selectable safety system that actually works, doesn't get in the way
of cuts, and is invisible in use. *It's better technology.

The price will not come down until the patent runs out, in another
fifteen years or so.

A better question to ask over at the wreck would be, if you had a
choice of paying $2000 now and getting the tip of your finger back,
would you?

False choice. I didn't choose to spend the $2000 (more than doubling
the price) and haven't needed to get a finger back.

On Aug 11, 1:06*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 11, 12:55*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Aug 11, 12:28*pm, RicodJour wrote:

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw.

Then ask them if they have replaced the saw that bit them with a SawStop.

You're missing my point, DD. *The price premium is high - now. *It'll
come down. *The price is immaterial to the fact that it is a user-
selectable safety system that actually works, doesn't get in the way
of cuts, and is invisible in use. *It's better technology.

A better question to ask over at the wreck would be, if you had a
choice of paying $2000 now and getting the tip of your finger back,
would you?

R

"The price premium is high - now. It'll come down."

When? Here's a thread from 2003 in which lot's of people are
complaining about the price.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.w...awstop&lnk=nl&

I believe the device hit the market right around then. Since that
time, to my knowledge not one manuafacturer has adopted (and paid for)
the technology.

As long as only one company controls the patent, then I don't see why
the price would come down.

On Aug 11, 1:52*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 11, 1:06*pm, RicodJour wrote:



On Aug 11, 12:55*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Aug 11, 12:28*pm, RicodJour wrote:

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw.

Then ask them if they have replaced the saw that bit them with a SawStop.

You're missing my point, DD. *The price premium is high - now. *It'll
come down. *The price is immaterial to the fact that it is a user-
selectable safety system that actually works, doesn't get in the way
of cuts, and is invisible in use. *It's better technology.

A better question to ask over at the wreck would be, if you had a
choice of paying $2000 now and getting the tip of your finger back,
would you?

R

"The price premium is high - now. It'll come down."

When? Here's a thread from 2003 in which lot's of people are
complaining about the price.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.w...hread/thread/5...

I believe the device hit the market right around then. Since that
time, to my knowledge not one manuafacturer has adopted (and paid for)
the technology.

As long as only one company controls the patent, then I don't see why
the price would come down.

Because the inventor is either a smart businessman, or he has good
people running it. He's been trying to squeeze the market into buying
them at his price by trying to get legislation passed. With most
inventions there's essentially zero chance that that will happen, but
with something that has such great whiz bang demonstrations, and with
something that is obviously so much safer, it's probably just a
question of time. It's a game of chicken.

I didn't say the price would come down overnight, but it will, and I
don't think it will be all that much longer. More money is made
selling lots of units at a lower price than a few at an exorbitant
price. The margin won't be as great, but the total income will be far
more. The most likely scenario is he'll sell the company to a big
manufacturer that is willing to take the risk and pay up front to get
a jump on the competition.

R

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:55:01 -0700, "chaniarts"
wrote Re Hot Dog Saw Tested on Finger:

30 years ago who would have thought the government would require a
dead man's switch on a lawn mower..
I really believe that before I die they will ban sharp knives and
pointy scissors

they are well on that way in england.

No wonder why the arabs are kicking our ass.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

On Aug 11, 2:19*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 11, 1:52*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Aug 11, 1:06*pm, RicodJour wrote:

On Aug 11, 12:55*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Aug 11, 12:28*pm, RicodJour wrote:

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw.

Then ask them if they have replaced the saw that bit them with a SawStop.

You're missing my point, DD. *The price premium is high - now. *It'll
come down. *The price is immaterial to the fact that it is a user-
selectable safety system that actually works, doesn't get in the way
of cuts, and is invisible in use. *It's better technology.

A better question to ask over at the wreck would be, if you had a
choice of paying $2000 now and getting the tip of your finger back,
would you?

R

"The price premium is high - now. It'll come down."

When? Here's a thread from 2003 in which lot's of people are
complaining about the price.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.w...hread/thread/5...

I believe the device hit the market right around then. Since that
time, to my knowledge not one manuafacturer has adopted (and paid for)
the technology.

As long as only one company controls the patent, then I don't see why
the price would come down.

Because the inventor is either a smart businessman, or he has good
people running it. *He's been trying to squeeze the market into buying
them at his price by trying to get legislation passed. *With most
inventions there's essentially zero chance that that will happen, but
with something that has such great whiz bang demonstrations, and with
something that is obviously so much safer, it's probably just a
question of time. *It's a game of chicken.

I didn't say the price would come down overnight, but it will, and I
don't think it will be all that much longer. *More money is made
selling lots of units at a lower price than a few at an exorbitant
price. *The margin won't be as great, but the total income will be far
more. *The most likely scenario is he'll sell the company to a big
manufacturer that is willing to take the risk and pay up front to get
a jump on the competition.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Because the inventor is either a smart businessman, or he has
good people running it. "

I'm not so sure. First he tried to get the major manufacturers to
purchase his technology and they all showed him the door. That's when
he played the safety card and tried to get the government involved.

If the device is mandated across all manufacturers, I doubt the price
will come down because they'll all push back and say "We can't do it
cheaply. We'll have to re-tool, we'll have to re-train, we'll have to
re-lawyer in case the device fails. We'll do it, but the cost will be
prohibitive."

I don't recall if it's in the thread I posted the link to or in
another, but there was mention of a school district that cancelled
it's shop program because the board mandated that they purchase
SawStops for their schools. I paraphrase: "If a safety device exists
that can protect our kids, we must use it." The schools couldn't
afford to buy all new table saws and the program was cancelled out of
fear that the "older technology" would make them liable if someone got
injured.

A "smart businessman" would have donated a bunch of SawStops to the
schools as a means to get them seen in the market and garner a bunch
of goodwill. His "good people" should have caught wind of the
situation and taken care of it.

If I suffered from "Conspiracy Theory Syndrome" I'd say they didn't
want to get involved for fear of the device failing and some kid
losing a finger or two. Read on...

A r.w poster supposedly wrote to SawStop and asked if they ever tested
the device with a human finger. Here is a snippet from the post and an
additional comment from another poster:

*** Begin Included Text ***

"I received the following reply from Stephen Gass, President of
SawStop (posted (t)here with his permission):

'However, before we first showed the system at the Altanta IWF 2000
Tradeshow, I tested the system with my own finger and just a tiny nick
was the result. Of course, I wasn't shoving it into the blade quickly
or anything like that, but it did prove the point. We don't do this on
a regular basis for two reasons. First, even a small cut on a table
saw hurts a lot. Second, no system is perfect and sometime I'm sure it
won't go off, just like airbags sometimes fail. I don't want to push
my luck. '

(snip)

Another poster's comment:

"This could be one of the reasons (besides the cost of redesign and
retooling, and the resultant price increase) why the big manufacturers
passed on this system. From a liability standpoint, it's a lot less
risky to market a dangerous tool when there is no implied "fail-safe"
finger protector. A small percentage of SawStops will fail, just as
airbags will. However, the bags are designated a "supplemental
restraint" to be worn with seat belts, while the SawStop has no other
system to act as a partner. If someone is hurt as Mr. Gass implies may
happen, then the entire liability could become the manufacturer's and
the potential costs would be very high. I'd guess that SawStop's
literature will be phrased very carefully to remove any implied
warranty."

*** End Included Text ***

Should this system ever be mandated by the government, who would be
ultimately responsible should it begin to fail more often once it
begins to see wide spread use?

wrote:

... Until some weenie at OSHA or CPSC decides you need to have this

30 years ago who would have thought the government would require a
dead man's switch on a lawn mower..
I really believe that before I die they will ban sharp knives and
pointy scissors

Uh, lawnmowers DO have a dead-man's switch.

On Aug 11, 2:55*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 11, 2:19*pm, RicodJour wrote:



On Aug 11, 1:52*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Aug 11, 1:06*pm, RicodJour wrote:

On Aug 11, 12:55*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Aug 11, 12:28*pm, RicodJour wrote:

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw.

Then ask them if they have replaced the saw that bit them with a SawStop.

You're missing my point, DD. *The price premium is high - now. *It'll
come down. *The price is immaterial to the fact that it is a user-
selectable safety system that actually works, doesn't get in the way
of cuts, and is invisible in use. *It's better technology.

A better question to ask over at the wreck would be, if you had a
choice of paying $2000 now and getting the tip of your finger back,
would you?

R

"The price premium is high - now. It'll come down."

When? Here's a thread from 2003 in which lot's of people are
complaining about the price.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.w...hread/thread/5....

I believe the device hit the market right around then. Since that
time, to my knowledge not one manuafacturer has adopted (and paid for)
the technology.

As long as only one company controls the patent, then I don't see why
the price would come down.

Because the inventor is either a smart businessman, or he has good
people running it. *He's been trying to squeeze the market into buying
them at his price by trying to get legislation passed. *With most
inventions there's essentially zero chance that that will happen, but
with something that has such great whiz bang demonstrations, and with
something that is obviously so much safer, it's probably just a
question of time. *It's a game of chicken.

I didn't say the price would come down overnight, but it will, and I
don't think it will be all that much longer. *More money is made
selling lots of units at a lower price than a few at an exorbitant
price. *The margin won't be as great, but the total income will be far
more. *The most likely scenario is he'll sell the company to a big
manufacturer that is willing to take the risk and pay up front to get
a jump on the competition.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Because the inventor is either a smart businessman, or he has
good people running it. "

I'm not so sure. First he tried to get the major manufacturers to
purchase his technology and they all showed him the door. That's when
he played the safety card and tried to get the government involved.

If the device is mandated across all manufacturers, I doubt the price
will come down because they'll all push back and say "We can't do it
cheaply. We'll have to re-tool, we'll have to re-train, we'll have to
re-lawyer in case the device fails. *We'll do it, but the cost will be
prohibitive."

I don't recall if it's in the thread I posted the link to or in
another, but there was mention of a school district that cancelled
it's shop program because the board mandated that they purchase
SawStops for their schools. I paraphrase: "If a safety device exists
that can protect our kids, we must use it." The schools couldn't
afford to buy all new table saws and the program was cancelled out of
fear that the "older technology" would make them liable if someone got
injured.

A "smart businessman" would have donated a bunch of SawStops to the
schools as a means to get them seen in the market and garner a bunch
of goodwill. His "good people" should have caught wind of the
situation and taken care of it.

If I suffered from "Conspiracy Theory Syndrome" I'd say they didn't
want to get involved for fear of the device failing and some kid
losing a finger or two. Read on...

A r.w poster supposedly wrote to SawStop and asked if they ever tested
the device with a human finger. Here is a snippet from the post and an
additional comment from another poster:

*** Begin Included Text ***

"I received the following reply from Stephen Gass, President of
SawStop (posted (t)here with his permission):

'However, before we first showed the system at the Altanta IWF 2000
Tradeshow, I tested the system with my own finger and just a tiny nick
was the result. Of course, I wasn't shoving it into the blade quickly
or anything like that, but it did prove the point. We don't do this on
a regular basis for two reasons. First, even a small cut on a table
saw hurts a lot. Second, no system is perfect and sometime I'm sure it
won't go off, just like airbags sometimes fail. I don't want to push
my luck. '

(snip)

Another poster's comment:

"This could be one of the reasons (besides the cost of redesign and
retooling, and the resultant price increase) why the big manufacturers
passed on this system. From a liability standpoint, it's a lot less
risky to market a dangerous tool when there is no implied "fail-safe"
finger protector. A small percentage of SawStops will fail, just as
airbags will. *However, the bags are designated a "supplemental
restraint" to be worn with seat belts, while the SawStop has no other
system to act as a partner. If someone is hurt as Mr. Gass implies may
happen, then the entire liability could become the manufacturer's and
the potential costs would be very high. I'd guess that SawStop's
literature will be phrased very carefully to remove any implied
warranty."

*** End Included Text ***

Should this system ever be mandated by the government, who would be
ultimately responsible should it begin to fail more often once it
begins to see wide spread use?

You bring up good points, no doubt. Please note that I said he's a
good businessman, not a great one, and certainly no saint...even
saints aren't saints these days. I agree that a guy that wasn't a
dick just after money would donate a few dozen units to high school
shop programs in carefully selected areas. Leverage the PR and get
people talking about them.

As far as the liability thing, it's really no different than car
airbags. And as far as the who's-going-to-pay-for-this if it's
legislated in...hell, the jokers we have in office now - on both sides
(why are there only two?) - don't seem to understand that there's
always a bill at the end of the meal. Maybe that's the problem -
they're so far removed from things that they don't see the bill and
it's not their money in the first place.

R

On 8/11/2010 11:31 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 11, 11:29 am, Steve wrote:

not to mention the false trips every time you run a piece of green
lumber through it.

Remember, read first, then post.

"SawStop saws cut most wet wood without a problem. However, if the
wood is very green or wet (for example, wet enough to spray a mist
when cutting), or if the wood is both wet and pressure treated, then
the wood may be sufficiently conductive to trigger the brake.
Accordingly, the best practice is to dry wet or green wood before
cutting by standing it inside and apart from other wood for about one
day. You can also cut wet pressure treated wood and other conductive
material by placing the saw in bypass mode to deactivate the safety
system."

R

i don't think the sales propaganda was part of the OP. And if you're
gonna bypass the safety, then why have it? My point exactly. Worthless.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 8/11/2010 11:00 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:28:54 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 8/11/2010 10:02 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2010-08-11, Red wrote:

They had the guy with the Hot Dog Saw. He actually very slowly touched the
tip of one of his fingers to the blade for the show. No cuts or blood. He
was extremely reserved on his approach to say the least.

I watched a video of how that saw does its thing. Doesn't it just
about self destruct to stop in time? How much does it cost to get it
back up and running again after one of its "stop" events?

nb

the way i understand it, the 'brake' mechanism is about $100 plus the
price of the blade it ruined. Then there's the labor and down time on
the saw. It's a worthless item, no one who uses their saw every day
would have one.

... Until some weenie at OSHA or CPSC decides you need to have this

30 years ago who would have thought the government would require a
dead man's switch on a lawn mower..
I really believe that before I die they will ban sharp knives and
pointy scissors

yes, and if i had to disengage my mower every time i stopped to pickup
trash or move an item, my clutch would be toast. That is the first item
to be by-passed when i buy one. The second item is that tree destroying
ROPS. Gotta use your head to run machinery.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 8/11/2010 11:55 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 11, 12:28 pm, wrote:
On Aug 11, 11:28 am, Steve wrote:



the way i understand it, the 'brake' mechanism is about $100 plus the
price of the blade it ruined. Then there's the labor and down time on
the saw. It's a worthless item, no one who uses their saw every day
would have one.

You believe that it less likely that there will be an accident if
someone uses something more? It doesn't quite work that way.

Do you have life insurance? Homeowner's insurance? Car insurance?
Ever use any of them? I'll take a stab at it and guess you've never
needed the first one...yet...but as far as the others if you haven't
used them, why do you have them?

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw. Those are people who use saws every day.
No one gets a free pass on accidents. Not amateurs, not pros.

R

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw.

Then ask them if they have replaced the saw that bit them with a
SawStop.


I'd be willing to bet, no woodworker worth his salt would have one of
these pieces of **** in their shop.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Aug 11, 3:37*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 8/11/2010 11:00 AM, wrote:





On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:28:54 -0500, Steve Barker
*wrote:

On 8/11/2010 10:02 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2010-08-11, Red * wrote:

They had the guy with the Hot Dog Saw. He actually very slowly touched the
tip of one of his fingers to the blade for the show. No cuts or blood. He
was extremely reserved on his approach to say the least.

I watched a video of how that saw does its thing. *Doesn't it just
about self destruct to stop in time? *How much does it cost to get it
back up and running again after one of its "stop" events?

nb

the way i understand it, the 'brake' mechanism is about $100 plus the
price of the blade it ruined. *Then there's the labor and down time on
the saw. *It's a worthless item, no one who uses their saw every day
would have one.

... Until some weenie at OSHA or CPSC decides you need to have this

30 years ago who would have thought the government would require a
dead man's switch on a lawn mower..
I really believe that before I die they will ban sharp knives and
pointy scissors

yes, and if i had to disengage my mower every time i stopped to pickup
trash or move an item, my clutch would be toast. *That is the first item
to be by-passed when i buy one. *The second item is that tree destroying
ROPS. *Gotta use your head to run machinery.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The first thing I by-passed was the engine cutoff under the seat.

Gotta use your head to run machinery

On 2010-08-11, HeyBub wrote:
wrote:

30 years ago who would have thought the government would require a
dead man's switch on a lawn mower..

Uh, lawnmowers DO have a dead-man's switch.

Uh, perceptive readers would have realized that is exactly what the
poster was saying.

nb

On Aug 11, 3:39*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 8/11/2010 11:55 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:



On Aug 11, 12:28 pm, *wrote:
On Aug 11, 11:28 am, Steve *wrote:

the way i understand it, the 'brake' mechanism is about $100 plus the
price of the blade it ruined. *Then there's the labor and down time on
the saw. *It's a worthless item, no one who uses their saw every day
would have one.

You believe that it less likely that there will be an accident if
someone uses something more? *It doesn't quite work that way.

Do you have life insurance? *Homeowner's insurance? *Car insurance?
Ever use any of them? *I'll take a stab at it and guess you've never
needed the first one...yet...but as far as the others if you haven't
used them, why do you have them?

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw. *Those are people who use saws every day.
No one gets a free pass on accidents. *Not amateurs, not pros.

R

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw.

Then ask them if they have replaced the saw that bit them with a
SawStop.

I'd be willing to bet, no woodworker worth his salt would have one of
these pieces of **** in their shop.

Well, I'd take your money, but I didn't see you put up any cash,
sailors are worth their salt, not woodworkers, and it's interesting
that you, with no firsthand experience, just a mouth and an opinion,
know all about what every woodworker would have in their shop. I'll
tell you what - why don't you post your list of the tools in your shop
and we can have all of the other manufacturer's just close their doors
so people won't waste their money buying them. Will that suit you?

If, by the remotest chance, you'd like to learn instead of just
spouting an opinion based on your imagination, remember to read then
post. The order is important.

http://www.consumersearch.com/table-saw-reviews
That's a review aggregation site and they don't make an opinion, they
just report what others' have written. Silly publications like Fine
Woodworking, American Woodworker, etc., etc. seem to like the SawStop
just fine. I'm sure they'd appreciate you posting your opinion on why
the saw is a POS and how you arrived at that conclusion. Everyone
needs a laugh now and again. Thanks.

R

DerbyDad03 wrote:

I don't recall if it's in the thread I posted the link to or in
another, but there was mention of a school district that cancelled
it's shop program because the board mandated that they purchase
SawStops for their schools. I paraphrase: "If a safety device exists
that can protect our kids, we must use it." The schools couldn't
afford to buy all new table saws and the program was cancelled out of
fear that the "older technology" would make them liable if someone got
injured.

A "smart businessman" would have donated a bunch of SawStops to the
schools as a means to get them seen in the market and garner a bunch
of goodwill. His "good people" should have caught wind of the
situation and taken care of it.


The school wouldn't be able to afford the replacement parts, since the kids
would be sure to at least do the hotdog test.

On Aug 11, 3:35*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 8/11/2010 11:31 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 11, 11:29 am, Steve *wrote:

not to mention the false trips every time you run a piece of green
lumber through it.

Remember, read first, then post.

"SawStop saws cut most wet wood without a problem. However, if the
wood is very green or wet (for example, wet enough to spray a mist
when cutting), or if the wood is both wet and pressure treated, then
the wood may be sufficiently conductive to trigger the brake.
Accordingly, the best practice is to dry wet or green wood before
cutting by standing it inside and apart from other wood for about one
day. You can also cut wet pressure treated wood and other conductive
material by placing the saw in bypass mode to deactivate the safety
system."


i don't think the sales propaganda was part of the OP. *And if you're
gonna bypass the safety, then why have it? *My point exactly. *Worthless.

Oh, please. Make up your mind. You complain about being spoon fed
safety, then when you find out that you're not being spoon fed you
complain about the spoon being missing.

"Sales propaganda"...you have learned well. If someone agrees with
your opinion, they're offering up hard facts, but when the opinion is
counter to your own it's sales propaganda. That seems totally fair
and unbiased to me.

You are right on one thing - yay! - Red's initial post didn't include
sales propaganda because he was just mentioning he saw the SawStop on
a TV show. Then you replied with "it's a worthless item" - which is
curious as that comment _is_ sales propaganda - negative propaganda
apparently to prevent people from buying a SawStop. Why would that
be? You've never touched one, right? You didn't even bother to find
out about how it works with green wood. Didn't even know the brake
could be deactivated. Then you chime in with some BS about down time,
lost labor, the expense of the cartridge and ruined blade, etc. You
know - blowing smoke.

You do realize that the alternative is someone losing a finger. I'd
appreciate your analysis of how much down time and lost labor there'd
be if someone loses a finger in the shop. Please also factor in what
a lost finger does to an employer's workmens comp premium, and what
effect it will have on the workshop's other employees' productivity.

If you can't be bothered to be unbiased and at least try to factor in
all of the variables, just call me some names and we'll call it a day.

R

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:39:18 -0500, Caesar Romano wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:55:01 -0700, "chaniarts"
wrote Re Hot Dog Saw Tested on Finger:

30 years ago who would have thought the government would require a
dead man's switch on a lawn mower..
I really believe that before I die they will ban sharp knives and
pointy scissors

they are well on that way in england.

No wonder why the arabs are kicking our ass.

kicking our ass? where? if it wasn't for mass media hysteria, nobody
would give a ****.

More people die on U.S. roads every week than the terrorists have killed in a
decade.

On Aug 11, 2:39*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 8/11/2010 11:55 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:



On Aug 11, 12:28 pm, *wrote:
On Aug 11, 11:28 am, Steve *wrote:

the way i understand it, the 'brake' mechanism is about $100 plus the
price of the blade it ruined. *Then there's the labor and down time on
the saw. *It's a worthless item, no one who uses their saw every day
would have one.

You believe that it less likely that there will be an accident if
someone uses something more? *It doesn't quite work that way.

Do you have life insurance? *Homeowner's insurance? *Car insurance?
Ever use any of them? *I'll take a stab at it and guess you've never
needed the first one...yet...but as far as the others if you haven't
used them, why do you have them?

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw. *Those are people who use saws every day.
No one gets a free pass on accidents. *Not amateurs, not pros.

R

Trot on over to rec.woodworking and ask how many people over there
have been bitten by a saw.

Then ask them if they have replaced the saw that bit them with a
SawStop.

I'd be willing to bet, no woodworker worth his salt would have one of
these pieces of **** in their shop.

You're *wrong*. It's a good saw, just not worth the 2X price of an
equivalent. They're selling far better than the similarly priced
"New" Delta Unisaw, which is also a fine saw but way out of line.

On Aug 11, 4:28*pm, keith wrote:
On Aug 11, 2:39*pm, Steve Barker wrote:

I'd be willing to bet, no woodworker worth his salt would have one of
these pieces of **** in their shop.

You're *wrong*. *It's a good saw, just not worth the 2X price of an
equivalent. *They're selling far better than the similarly priced
"New" Delta Unisaw, which is also a fine saw but way out of line.

From what I understand the SawStop also has a very good dust
collection system, and has other well thought out features. I've
never had my hands on one, but in general I've found Fine Woodworking
reviews to be reliable, and they liked it.

I'd have to check out the saw to see if the other features would make
double the price more agreeable. Since a table saw is such a major
shop investment an extra thousand or so isn't all that much. Think of
what people spend on cars and toys. They'll blow far more than an
extra thousand and not think twice.

R

In article , RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 11, 12:00=A0pm, wrote:

... Until some weenie at OSHA or CPSC decides you need to have this

30 years ago who would have thought the government would require a
dead man's switch on a lawn mower..
I really believe that before I die they will ban sharp knives and
pointy scissors

I am the first to say that it is impossible to outlaw stupidity with
legislation, but the SawStop is simply better technology. The price
premium will come down, and so will the cost of used saws without the
brake. Everybody wins.

On top of that, the saw is a damn fine piece of machinery.

In article , AZ Nomad wrote:

More people die on U.S. roads every week than the terrorists have killed in a
decade.

Guess again.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:06:12 -0700, RicodJour wrote:

[snip

A better question to ask over at the wreck would be, if you had a choice
of paying $2000 now and getting the tip of your finger back, would you?

R

Somehow, thus thread led to my remembering something about the guy who
used a band saw as a masturbation aid.

[message delayed by act of cat]

Hasn't that happened in England already? I mean, about knives and
scissors.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

the way i understand it, the 'brake' mechanism is about $100 plus the
price of the blade it ruined. Then there's the labor and down time
on
the saw. It's a worthless item, no one who uses their saw every day
would have one.

.... Until some weenie at OSHA or CPSC decides you need to have this

30 years ago who would have thought the government would require a
dead man's switch on a lawn mower..
I really believe that before I die they will ban sharp knives and
pointy scissors

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Hasn't that happened in England already? I mean, about knives and
scissors.


As long as they don't ban grinders, we'll do fine.

At work a few years ago, they banned opening the windows, both because
the POS HVAC system kept getting confused, and because the windows were
worn-out junk that had a habit of falling on people's fingers. They even
screwed some shut, in the wings and floors with the worst windows.

I happened to work on one of those floors. We were the techs who did the
computer stuff for the building. We all had tools. When they came around
and screwed them shut, we all shrugged and said 'whatever'. Within a
week, every last screw had vanished. It took the powers that be a couple
tries of replacing them before reality sank in.

(and yes, for the windows that kept falling down, we fabricated sticks.)

--
aem sends...

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:36:03 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Aug 11, 4:28*pm, keith wrote:
On Aug 11, 2:39*pm, Steve Barker wrote:

I'd be willing to bet, no woodworker worth his salt would have one of
these pieces of **** in their shop.

You're *wrong*. *It's a good saw, just not worth the 2X price of an
equivalent. *They're selling far better than the similarly priced
"New" Delta Unisaw, which is also a fine saw but way out of line.

From what I understand the SawStop also has a very good dust
collection system, and has other well thought out features. I've
never had my hands on one, but in general I've found Fine Woodworking
reviews to be reliable, and they liked it.

I've looked them over (several times) at WoodCraft, and such. No doubt, it's
a fine saw. It was over twice the price of my Unisaw (two wings +
Biesemeyer), last year. No, it wasn't worth that much more.

I'd have to check out the saw to see if the other features would make
double the price more agreeable. Since a table saw is such a major
shop investment an extra thousand or so isn't all that much. Think of
what people spend on cars and toys. They'll blow far more than an
extra thousand and not think twice.

It was more like $2000 more than my Unisaw. You can rationalize your way into
the poor house that way.

Don't get me wrong, I could have found a way to find the extra $1800-$2000, if
I *had* to, but I didn't. The Unisaw is a good saw, and if I didn't get the
deal on the Unisaw I would have bought a Grizz for a couple of hundred less
still.

BTW, our vehicles are a 2000 Sable and a 2001 Ranger. ;-)

RicodJour wrote in
:

On Aug 11, 10:49*am, Red Green wrote:
Caught a show called Time Warp on Discovery last night.

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/time-warp/time-warp.html

Had never seen the show before. Couple of guys do extremely high
speed video of all kinds of things. 1000fps 10,000fps range.

They had the guy with the Hot Dog Saw. He actually very slowly
touched th
e
tip of one of his fingers to the blade for the show. No cuts or
blood. He was extremely reserved on his approach to say the least.

That was the inventor, and even if you knew that the blade brake were
100% effective, I doubt you'd be any more eager to touch a spinning
blade.

R

You got that right!!!

RicodJour wrote in
:

On Aug 11, 3:35*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 8/11/2010 11:31 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 11, 11:29 am, Steve
*wrote:

not to mention the false trips every time you run a piece of green
lumber through it.

Remember, read first, then post.

"SawStop saws cut most wet wood without a problem. However, if the
wood is very green or wet (for example, wet enough to spray a mist
when cutting), or if the wood is both wet and pressure treated,
then the wood may be sufficiently conductive to trigger the brake.
Accordingly, the best practice is to dry wet or green wood before
cutting by standing it inside and apart from other wood for about
one day. You can also cut wet pressure treated wood and other
conductive material by placing the saw in bypass mode to deactivate
the safety system."


i don't think the sales propaganda was part of the OP. *And if you're
gonna bypass the safety, then why have it? *My point exactly. *Worthl
ess.

Oh, please. Make up your mind. You complain about being spoon fed
safety, then when you find out that you're not being spoon fed you
complain about the spoon being missing.

"Sales propaganda"...you have learned well. If someone agrees with
your opinion, they're offering up hard facts, but when the opinion is
counter to your own it's sales propaganda. That seems totally fair
and unbiased to me.

You are right on one thing - yay! - Red's initial post didn't include
sales propaganda because he was just mentioning he saw the SawStop on
a TV show. Then you replied with "it's a worthless item" - which is
curious as that comment _is_ sales propaganda - negative propaganda
apparently to prevent people from buying a SawStop. Why would that
be? You've never touched one, right? You didn't even bother to find
out about how it works with green wood. Didn't even know the brake
could be deactivated. Then you chime in with some BS about down time,
lost labor, the expense of the cartridge and ruined blade, etc. You
know - blowing smoke.

You do realize that the alternative is someone losing a finger. I'd
appreciate your analysis of how much down time and lost labor there'd
be if someone loses a finger in the shop. Please also factor in what
a lost finger does to an employer's workmens comp premium, and what
effect it will have on the workshop's other employees' productivity.

If you can't be bothered to be unbiased and at least try to factor in
all of the variables, just call me some names and we'll call it a day.

R


sales propaganda because he was just mentioning he saw the SawStop on
a TV show.

I, as man others, have seen the ads using the hot dog. It was just that
this is the first time I had seen it demo'd on a finger. Guys got balls
I tell ya!

Hmmmm.... Hey, I wonder if the guy has enough faith in it to straddle
the blade and drop his nads on it. Make a good Jackass segment.