Higgs Boson wrote:
Lately, one circuit on my box blows. It covers the microwave and
regular oven. I could
understand it blowing when another heat-using appliance, like toaster
oven or toaster runs at same time as microwave. But now it's blowing
all on its own.

Last time, today, only the micro was being used, to "reduce" a glass
dish of chicken drippings.

Can one circuit go bad all on its own? If so, why? And what should I
do about it.

Any info appreciated.
Can't you just measure the load?
Count how long it takes the wheel on the power meter to go around.
Turn on the suspect appliance.
Count the wheel again.
Calculate the load difference.

On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:47:23 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:
all kinds of previou stuff snipped -
Is it a 15 amp breaker/circuit?
What else is on that circuit.
Can he easily avoid any additional load on the MW circuit by moving
any other loads to a different circuit, eg plug the toaster into a
different outlet.

Â*He has answered the second half or your question several times - the
clock of the gas oven (which likely draws less than 200 Ma), and the
toaster opr toaster oven if he has it plugged in -
If he ONLY uses the Microwave, or ONLY uses the toaster, the 15 amp
breaker should hold. The only thing to do is to replace the breaker
and see what happens.
A dedicated 20 amp split countertop receptacle should be installed in
the kitchen replacing whatever he is plugging the toaster into,
leaving the Microwave and gas oven on the existing circuit. This would
give him 2 20 amp circuits to handle toasters, coffeemakers, toaster
ovens, etc without danger of tripping breakers from inadvertent
overloads - and would get him almost code compliant. (which adding a
separate circuit for the microwave would not). The countertop
receptacles should be on GFCI protected circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way.

OMG, now I am more anxious than ever. Why would "adding a separate
circuit
for the microwave" not get me code compliant? This is a civilian
talking, who
doesn't know from code.

Current code requires split receptacles on the countertop - at least
here in Kitchener/Waterloo Ontario. Adding a dedicated line to the
microwave won't give you that - while adding the split will give you a
"dedicated" line for the microwave (which is allowed, I believe, to
also service the gas oven)

Also, can you explain "split countertop receptacle"? What is the
"split" about?

It is a duplex receptacle that has been fed with a 3 wire 220 volt
feed, split to 2 110 volt (nominal - I know, generally 230 and 115,
but that's just semantics) circuits - also referred to by some on the
group as an "edison" circuit, I believe.
I went on-line to get a definition, but never did find one as such.
Found a number of sites, but all
too technical for me. Whatever the job turns out to be, I will have
to hire a qualified
electrician; this is not a DIY, even with help.

Also: You say "The countertop receptacles should be on GFCI protected
circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way." Can you explain the reason?

The microwave and oven are permanetly (more or less) in one place, and
generally not within teach of the sink or water taps, whereas the
countertop receptacles can feet things like portable mixers etc that
can get within reach of the sink - where you could hold a (leaky)
appliance in one hand and touch the sink or tap with the other.
Without a GFCI you could get a nasty shock. With a GFCI the breaker
will trip and you usually will not even get a tickle.

Also: Someone in this thread suggested refrigerator cycling on might
be causing the trips.
I just checked by disabling the breaker governing MW and gas oven, and
it does NOT govern the refrig.

Last: Would doing the "split countertop receptacle" obviate the
necessity of replacing what
might be a defective breaker controlling the MW and gas oven, leading
to repeated trips?

No, like I said, replace the breaker FIRST as it is about 99.999%
likely that it is defective, given the scenario described. What make
panel do you have? Certain brands are much more succeptible to
failure.
TIA to all for your continued help! Much appreciated.

HB

On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 16:09:27 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
...
On Aug 4, 6:14 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 11:08:47 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:32 am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 4, 12:37 am, Higgs Boson wrote:

On Aug 2, 4:14 am, "RBM" wrote:

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message

...
On Aug 1, 10:11 am, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

Higgs Boson wrote:
Lately, one circuit on my box blows. It covers the microwave
and
regular oven. I could
understand it blowing when another heat-using appliance, like
toaster
oven or toaster runs at same time as microwave. But now it's
blowing
all on its own.

Last time, today, only the micro was being used, to "reduce" a
glass
dish of chicken drippings.

Can one circuit go bad all on its own? If so, why? And what
should I
do about it.

Any info appreciated.

Since nobody has mentioned this yet and it sounds like it's a
kitchen
circuit, is the breaker perchance a GFI one?

The microwave may have marginal "hot to ground" leakage which
sometimes
becomes high enough to trip a GFI breaker.

If it's not a GFI breaker, then I'll side with those who say,
"change
the breaker.

The breaker box was installed many years ago and I don't have any
paper work on it. Is there a way for a non-techie to ascertain
whether it is a GFI breaker?

Also, is it normal for a near-new MW to have the "marginal "hot to
ground" leakage? How do I ascertain this?

(Starts to look like an expensive electrician visit...sob...)

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

From your two replies, it sounds like this circuit is not dedicated
to the
microwave. Is it a 15 or 20 amp circuit? What is the wattage of the
microwave? If there is truly nothing else operating simultaneously
on the
circuit, and it trips, it's most likely a problem with the
microwave, or a
bad breaker. Have you checked to see if anything else goes out when
that
circuit trips, such as the refrigerator or something in another
room?

The microwave is only a few months old, as I mentioned earlier. It is
a
Sears Kenmore Elite. Here are the specs:

Power Supply: 120 V AC, 60 Hz
Rated Power Consumption: 1,600 W
Microwave Output: 1,200 W
Rated Current: 14.0 A

You are correct; the circuit is not dedicated to the microwave. As
another poster mentioned, older houses don't always have dedicated MW
circuits.

How do I find out whether it is a 15 or 20 amp circuit? Is this
relevant if, as it appears, I will have to have a
dedicated MW circuit installed?

******QUESTION: What should such an electrician visit cost, including
parts. This is a fairly expensive area,
and I am not a fairly expensive homeowner, so I need to budget ahead.
Estimates appreciated.

In answer to your q. if anything else goes out when the circuit
trips: No, just the light panel on the wall oven
and the toaster and/or toaster oven IF either happens to be on and
pulling juice. Nothing in another room.

Your advice much appreciated.

As another poster mentioned, older houses don't always have dedic-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

By reading the breaker handle. If it is a 15amp circuit then it would
be helpful to know how much of the rest of the kitchen is on it. That
microwave is going to pull around 12 to 13 amps based on it's 1600
watt label. If you are on a 15amp circuit and the fridge is also on
it then your problem is probably that the fridge tries to start up
while the microwave is running. I'm also inclined to guess you had a
less powerfull microwave before. You can not use other stuff in the
kitchen while microwaving but you can't really easily control when the
fridge will try to kick in.

Upgrading the circuit to 20 amp is not very practical. Running a new
dedicated circuit for the microwave would be your simplest solution.
How much that costs depends on a lot of variables like distance from
the breaker panel and how difficult it will be to run the wire. Where
you are factors in as well, some locations are only going to allow a
licensed electrician or the homeowner to perform this work. In that
case an economical alternative solution is to get a more knowledgable
friend to help you diy it. You'd be better off getting some local
quotes as far as possible prices go than asking here.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

Agree with the above. The MW is rated at 14 amps, 1600 watts. If
it's on a 15 amp breaker, that doesn't leave much for any other load.
Which is why with new wiring there is a dedicated circuit for the
microwave. Another possible alternative that would be a lot less
expensive is finding a MW that is lower power.

But first he needs to determine:

Is it a 15 amp breaker/circuit?
What else is on that circuit.
Can he easily avoid any additional load on the MW circuit by moving
any other loads to a different circuit, eg plug the toaster into a
different outlet.

He has answered the second half or your question several times - the
clock of the gas oven (which likely draws less than 200 Ma), and the
toaster opr toaster oven if he has it plugged in -
If he ONLY uses the Microwave, or ONLY uses the toaster, the 15 amp
breaker should hold. The only thing to do is to replace the breaker
and see what happens.
A dedicated 20 amp split countertop receptacle should be installed in
the kitchen replacing whatever he is plugging the toaster into,
leaving the Microwave and gas oven on the existing circuit. This would
give him 2 20 amp circuits to handle toasters, coffeemakers, toaster
ovens, etc without danger of tripping breakers from inadvertent
overloads - and would get him almost code compliant. (which adding a
separate circuit for the microwave would not). The countertop
receptacles should be on GFCI protected circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way.

OMG, now I am more anxious than ever. Why would "adding a separate
circuit
for the microwave" not get me code compliant? This is a civilian
talking, who
doesn't know from code.

Also, can you explain "split countertop receptacle"? What is the
"split" about?
I went on-line to get a definition, but never did find one as such.
Found a number of sites, but all
too technical for me. Whatever the job turns out to be, I will have
to hire a qualified
electrician; this is not a DIY, even with help.

Also: You say "The countertop receptacles should be on GFCI protected
circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way." Can you explain the reason?

Also: Someone in this thread suggested refrigerator cycling on might
be causing the trips.
I just checked by disabling the breaker governing MW and gas oven, and
it does NOT govern the refrig.

Last: Would doing the "split countertop receptacle" obviate the
necessity of replacing what
might be a defective breaker controlling the MW and gas oven, leading
to repeated trips?

TIA to all for your continued help! Much appreciated.

HB


A split receptacle is what they do in kitchens in Canada. It's two circuits
to one outlet. It's not typically done in the U.S. In the U.S. all kitchen
counter top outlets are supposed to be GFCI protected, regardless of what
they're used for. All you really need to do to remedy your problem, is run a
dedicated 20 amp circuit and outlet for this microwave.

Which still leaves him with only one countertop receptacle, which
cannot handle both a toaster and a tea kettle - there is a reason
Canadian codes are more stringent than US - They make a lot more
sense.

To remedy the problem and live with the same restrictions he now has,
just replace the breaker. If spending the money to add a new circuit -
get 2 for just a bit more than the one - the labour will be virtually
identical, and the material cost negligibly higher (14/3 or 12/3
instead of 14/2 or 12/2 cable is MABEE 30% more expensive - more
likely 15% or so.

Also, can you explain "split countertop receptacle"? What is the
"split" about?
I went on-line to get a definition, but never did find one as such.
Found a number of sites, but all
too technical for me. Whatever the job turns out to be, I will have
to hire a qualified
electrician; this is not a DIY, even with help.

Also: You say "The countertop receptacles should be on GFCI protected
circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way." Can you explain the reason?

Also: Someone in this thread suggested refrigerator cycling on might
be causing the trips.
I just checked by disabling the breaker governing MW and gas oven, and
it does NOT govern the refrig.

Last: Would doing the "split countertop receptacle" obviate the
necessity of replacing what
might be a defective breaker controlling the MW and gas oven, leading
to repeated trips?

TIA to all for your continued help! Much appreciated.

HB


A split receptacle is what they do in kitchens in Canada. It's two circuits
to one outlet. It's not typically done in the U.S. In the U.S. all kitchen
counter top outlets are supposed to be GFCI protected, regardless of what
they're used for. All you really need to do to remedy your problem, is run
a
dedicated 20 amp circuit and outlet for this microwave.

Which still leaves him with only one countertop receptacle, which
cannot handle both a toaster and a tea kettle - there is a reason
Canadian codes are more stringent than US - They make a lot more
sense.

To remedy the problem and live with the same restrictions he now has,
just replace the breaker. If spending the money to add a new circuit -
get 2 for just a bit more than the one - the labour will be virtually
identical, and the material cost negligibly higher (14/3 or 12/3
instead of 14/2 or 12/2 cable is MABEE 30% more expensive - more
likely 15% or so.

You have no idea how many receptacles , circuits, or countertops the OP has.
What the OP should do, is determine exactly what his problem is, then fix it
and not willy nilly replacing parts like a bad mechanic

On Aug 5, 10:57*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 16:09:27 -0400, "RBM" wrote:

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
....
On Aug 4, 6:14 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 11:08:47 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:32 am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 4, 12:37 am, Higgs Boson wrote:

On Aug 2, 4:14 am, "RBM" wrote:

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message

...
On Aug 1, 10:11 am, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

Higgs Boson wrote:
Lately, one circuit on my box blows. It covers the microwave
and
regular oven. I could
understand it blowing when another heat-using appliance, like
toaster
oven or toaster runs at same time as microwave. But now it's
blowing
all on its own.

Last time, today, only the micro was being used, to "reduce" a
glass
dish of chicken drippings.

Can one circuit go bad all on its own? If so, why? And what
should I
do about it.

Any info appreciated.

Since nobody has mentioned this yet and it sounds like it's a
kitchen
circuit, is the breaker perchance a GFI one?

The microwave may have marginal "hot to ground" leakage which
sometimes
becomes high enough to trip a GFI breaker.

If it's not a GFI breaker, then I'll side with those who say,
"change
the breaker.

The breaker box was installed many years ago and I don't have any
paper work on it. Is there a way for a non-techie to ascertain
whether it is a GFI breaker?

Also, is it normal for a near-new MW to have the "marginal "hot to
ground" leakage? How do I ascertain this?

(Starts to look like an expensive electrician visit...sob...)

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

From your two replies, it sounds like this circuit is not dedicated
to the
microwave. Is it a 15 or 20 amp circuit? What is the wattage of the
microwave? If there is truly nothing else operating simultaneously
on the
circuit, and it trips, it's most likely a problem with the
microwave, or a
bad breaker. Have you checked to see if anything else goes out when
that
circuit trips, such as the refrigerator or something in another
room?

The microwave is only a few months old, as I mentioned earlier. It is
a
Sears Kenmore Elite. Here are the specs:

Power Supply: 120 V AC, 60 Hz
Rated Power Consumption: 1,600 W
Microwave Output: 1,200 W
Rated Current: 14.0 A

You are correct; the circuit is not dedicated to the microwave. As
another poster mentioned, older houses don't always have dedicated MW
circuits.

How do I find out whether it is a 15 or 20 amp circuit? Is this
relevant if, as it appears, I will have to have a
dedicated MW circuit installed?

******QUESTION: What should such an electrician visit cost, including
parts. This is a fairly expensive area,
and I am not a fairly expensive homeowner, so I need to budget ahead.
Estimates appreciated.

In answer to your q. if anything else goes out when the circuit
trips: No, just the light panel on the wall oven
and the toaster and/or toaster oven IF either happens to be on and
pulling juice. Nothing in another room.

Your advice much appreciated.

As another poster mentioned, older houses don't always have dedic-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

By reading the breaker handle. If it is a 15amp circuit then it would
be helpful to know how much of the rest of the kitchen is on it. That
microwave is going to pull around 12 to 13 amps based on it's 1600
watt label. If you are on a 15amp circuit and the fridge is also on
it then your problem is probably that the fridge tries to start up
while the microwave is running. I'm also inclined to guess you had a
less powerfull microwave before. You can not use other stuff in the
kitchen while microwaving but you can't really easily control when the
fridge will try to kick in.

Upgrading the circuit to 20 amp is not very practical. Running a new
dedicated circuit for the microwave would be your simplest solution..
How much that costs depends on a lot of variables like distance from
the breaker panel and how difficult it will be to run the wire. Where
you are factors in as well, some locations are only going to allow a
licensed electrician or the homeowner to perform this work. In that
case an economical alternative solution is to get a more knowledgable
friend to help you diy it. You'd be better off getting some local
quotes as far as possible prices go than asking here.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

Agree with the above. The MW is rated at 14 amps, 1600 watts. If
it's on a 15 amp breaker, that doesn't leave much for any other load.
Which is why with new wiring there is a dedicated circuit for the
microwave. Another possible alternative that would be a lot less
expensive is finding a MW that is lower power.

But first he needs to determine:

Is it a 15 amp breaker/circuit?
What else is on that circuit.
Can he easily avoid any additional load on the MW circuit by moving
any other loads to a different circuit, eg plug the toaster into a
different outlet.

He has answered the second half or your question several times - the
clock of the gas oven (which likely draws less than 200 Ma), and the
toaster opr toaster oven if he has it plugged in -
If he ONLY uses the Microwave, or ONLY uses the toaster, the 15 amp
breaker should hold. The only thing to do is to replace the breaker
and see what happens.
A dedicated 20 amp split countertop receptacle should be installed in
the kitchen replacing whatever he is plugging the toaster into,
leaving the Microwave and gas oven on the existing circuit. This would
give him 2 20 amp circuits to handle toasters, coffeemakers, toaster
ovens, etc without danger of tripping breakers from inadvertent
overloads - and would get him almost code compliant. (which adding a
separate circuit for the microwave would not). The countertop
receptacles should be on GFCI protected circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way.

OMG, now I am more anxious than ever. *Why would "adding a separate
circuit
for the microwave" not get me code compliant? *This is a civilian
talking, who
doesn't know from code.

Also, can you explain "split countertop receptacle"? *What is the
"split" about?
I went on-line to get a definition, but never did find one as such.
Found a number of sites, but all
too technical for me. *Whatever the job turns out to be, I will have
to hire a qualified
electrician; this is not a DIY, even with help.

Also: *You say "The countertop receptacles should be on GFCI protected
circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way." *Can you explain the reason?

Also: *Someone in this thread suggested refrigerator cycling on might
be causing the trips.
I just checked by disabling the breaker governing MW and gas oven, and
it does NOT govern the refrig.

Last: *Would doing the "split countertop receptacle" obviate the
necessity of replacing what
might be a defective breaker controlling the MW and gas oven, leading
to repeated trips?

TIA to all for your continued help! *Much appreciated.

HB

A split receptacle is what they do in kitchens in Canada. It's two circuits
to one outlet. It's not typically done in the U.S. In the U.S. all kitchen
counter top outlets are supposed to be GFCI protected, regardless of what
they're used for. All you really need to do to remedy your problem, is run a
dedicated 20 amp circuit and outlet for this microwave.

Which still leaves him with only one countertop receptacle, which
cannot handle both a toaster and a tea kettle - there is a reason
Canadian codes are more stringent than US - They make a lot more
sense.

To remedy the problem and live with the same restrictions he now has,
just replace the breaker. If spending the money to add a new circuit -
get 2 for just a bit *more than the one - the labour will be virtually
identical, and the material cost negligibly higher (14/3 or 12/3
instead of 14/2 or 12/2 cable is MABEE 30% more expensive - more
likely 15% or so.

12/3 (forget 14/n for this application) is about 60% more but it's
still a trivial amount of money compared to the labor of adding
another circuit.

On Aug 6, 6:02*am, "RBM" wrote:
Also, can you explain "split countertop receptacle"? *What is the

"split" about?
I went on-line to get a definition, but never did find one as such.
Found a number of sites, but all
too technical for me. *Whatever the job turns out to be, I will have
to hire a qualified
electrician; this is not a DIY, even with help.

Also: *You say "The countertop receptacles should be on GFCI protected
circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way." *Can you explain the reason?

Also: *Someone in this thread suggested refrigerator cycling on might
be causing the trips.
I just checked by disabling the breaker governing MW and gas oven, and
it does NOT govern the refrig.

Last: *Would doing the "split countertop receptacle" obviate the
necessity of replacing what
might be a defective breaker controlling the MW and gas oven, leading
to repeated trips?

TIA to all for your continued help! *Much appreciated.

HB

A split receptacle is what they do in kitchens in Canada. It's two circuits
to one outlet. It's not typically done in the U.S. In the U.S. all kitchen
counter top outlets are supposed to be GFCI protected, regardless of what
they're used for. All you really need to do to remedy your problem, is run
a
dedicated 20 amp circuit and outlet for this microwave.

Which still leaves him with only one countertop receptacle, which
cannot handle both a toaster and a tea kettle - there is a reason
Canadian codes are more stringent than US - They make a lot more
sense.

To remedy the problem and live with the same restrictions he now has,
just replace the breaker. If spending the money to add a new circuit -
get 2 for just a bit *more than the one - the labour will be virtually
identical, and the material cost negligibly higher (14/3 or 12/3
instead of 14/2 or 12/2 cable is MABEE 30% more expensive - more
likely 15% or so.

You have no idea how many receptacles , circuits, or countertops the OP has.
What the OP should do, is determine exactly what his problem is, then fix it
and not willy nilly replacing parts like a bad mechanic

Often replacing parts is the cheapest solution. If parts cost is
trivial compared to labor it's the way to go. It's a lot better
advice to give long-distance, too.

On Aug 5, 3:47*pm, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Aug 4, 6:14*pm, wrote:





On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 11:08:47 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Aug 4, 8:32*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 4, 12:37*am, Higgs Boson wrote:

On Aug 2, 4:14*am, "RBM" wrote:

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message

...
On Aug 1, 10:11 am, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

Higgs Boson wrote:
Lately, one circuit on my box blows. It covers the microwave and
regular oven. I could
understand it blowing when another heat-using appliance, like toaster
oven or toaster runs at same time as microwave. But now it's blowing
all on its own.

Last time, today, only the micro was being used, to "reduce" a glass
dish of chicken drippings.

Can one circuit go bad all on its own? If so, why? And what should I
do about it.

Any info appreciated.

Since nobody has mentioned this yet and it sounds like it's a kitchen
circuit, is the breaker perchance a GFI one?

The microwave may have marginal "hot to ground" leakage which sometimes
becomes high enough to trip a GFI breaker.

If it's not a GFI breaker, then I'll side with those who say, "change
the breaker.

The breaker box was installed many years ago and I don't have any
paper work on it. *Is there a way for a *non-techie to ascertain
whether it is a GFI breaker?

Also, is it normal for a near-new MW to have the "marginal "hot to
ground" leakage? * How do I ascertain this?

(Starts to look like an expensive electrician visit...sob...)

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

From your two replies, it sounds like this circuit is not dedicated to the
microwave. Is it a 15 or 20 amp circuit? What is the wattage of the
microwave? If there is truly nothing else operating simultaneously on the
circuit, and it trips, it's most likely a problem with the microwave, or a
bad breaker. Have you checked to see if anything else goes out when that
circuit trips, such as the refrigerator or something in another room?

The microwave is only a few months old, as I mentioned earlier. *It is
a
Sears Kenmore Elite. *Here are the specs:

Power Supply: * *120 V AC, 60 Hz
Rated Power Consumption: *1,600 W
Microwave Output: *1,200 W
Rated Current: 14.0 A

You are correct; the circuit is not dedicated to the microwave. *As
another poster mentioned, older houses don't always have dedicated MW
circuits.

How do I find out whether it is a *15 or 20 amp circuit? *Is this
relevant if, as it appears, I will have to have a
dedicated MW circuit installed?

******QUESTION: *What should such an electrician visit cost, including
parts. This is a fairly expensive area,
and I am not a fairly expensive homeowner, so I need to budget ahead.
Estimates appreciated.

In answer to your q. if anything else goes out when the circuit
trips: *No, just the light panel on the wall oven
and the toaster and/or toaster oven IF either happens to be on and
pulling juice. *Nothing in another room.

Your advice much appreciated.

As another poster mentioned, older houses don't always have dedic- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

By reading the breaker handle. *If it is a 15amp circuit then it would
be helpful to know how much of the rest of the kitchen is on it. *That
microwave is going to pull around 12 to 13 amps based on it's 1600
watt label. *If you are on a 15amp circuit and the fridge is also on
it then your problem is probably that the fridge tries to start up
while the microwave is running. *I'm also inclined to guess you had a
less powerfull microwave before. *You can not use other stuff in the
kitchen while microwaving but you can't really easily control when the
fridge will try to kick in.

Upgrading the circuit to 20 amp is not very practical. *Running a new
dedicated circuit for the microwave would be your simplest solution.
How much that costs depends on a lot of variables like distance from
the breaker panel and how difficult it will be to run the wire. *Where
you are factors in as well, some locations are only going to allow a
licensed electrician or the homeowner to perform this work. *In that
case an economical alternative solution is to get a more knowledgable
friend to help you diy it. *You'd be better off getting some local
quotes as far as possible prices go than asking here.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Agree with the above. *The MW is rated at 14 amps, 1600 watts. * If
it's on a 15 amp breaker, that doesn't leave much for any other load.
Which is why with new wiring there is a dedicated circuit for the
microwave. * Another possible alternative that would be a lot less
expensive is finding a MW that is lower power.

But first he needs to determine:

Is it a 15 amp breaker/circuit?
What else is on that circuit.
Can he easily avoid any additional load on the MW circuit by moving
any other loads to a different circuit, eg plug the toaster into a
different outlet.

*He has answered the second half or your question several times - the
clock of the gas oven (which likely draws less than 200 Ma), and the
toaster opr toaster oven if he has it plugged in -
If he ONLY uses the Microwave, or ONLY uses the toaster, the 15 amp
breaker should hold. The only thing to do is to replace the breaker
and see what happens.
A dedicated 20 amp split countertop receptacle should be installed in
the kitchen replacing whatever he is plugging the toaster into,
leaving the Microwave and gas oven on the existing circuit. This would
give him 2 20 amp circuits to handle toasters, coffeemakers, toaster
ovens, etc without danger of tripping breakers from inadvertent
overloads - and would get him almost code compliant. (which adding a
separate circuit for the microwave would not). The countertop
receptacles should be on GFCI protected circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way.

OMG, now I am more anxious than ever. *Why would "adding a separate
circuit
for the microwave" not get me code compliant? *This is a civilian
talking, who
doesn't know from code.

Also, can you explain "split countertop receptacle"? *What is the
"split" about?
I went on-line to get a definition, but never did find one as such.
Found a number of sites, but all
too technical for me. *Whatever the job turns out to be, I will have
to hire a qualified
electrician; this is not a DIY, even with help.

Also: *You say "The countertop receptacles should be on GFCI protected
circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way." *Can you explain the reason?

Also: *Someone in this thread suggested refrigerator cycling on might
be causing the trips.
I just checked by disabling the breaker governing MW and gas oven, and
it does NOT govern the refrig.

Last: *Would doing the "split countertop receptacle" obviate the
necessity of replacing what
might be a defective breaker controlling the MW and gas oven, leading
to repeated trips?

TIA to all for your continued help! *Much appreciated.

HB- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If the fridge is not on your breaker then I'm leaning towards a weak
breaker. Have you figured out what else is on that circuit? Turn it
off and check everything; all the outlets in the kitchen and adjacent
rooms. If the fridge is on a different circuit then you may be able
to manage your usage to avoid the problem. Don't turn on other things
on that circuit while you are microwaving. A few lights won't matter.

If you do decide to add a dedicated circuit for the microwave you
should be able to do that without messing around with the rest of the
existing wiring.

However adding the gfci capability is often easy. It's just a matter
of figuring out which outlet in the kitchen is first on the chain of
outlets from the box. That outlet would be replaced with a gfci
outlet. Even if the kitchen has two circuits in it you simply will
need 2 gfci outlets.

On 7/31/2010 11:48 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
Lately, one circuit on my box blows. It covers the microwave and
regular oven. I could
understand it blowing when another heat-using appliance, like toaster
oven or toaster runs at same time as microwave. But now it's blowing
all on its own.

Last time, today, only the micro was being used, to "reduce" a glass
dish of chicken drippings.

Can one circuit go bad all on its own? If so, why? And what should I
do about it.

Any info appreciated.

I'm in the process of rebuilding a refrigeration unit in a restaurant
right now and I'm having to replace the plug, outlet and some other
wiring because it got toasted. The plug got wet and the connection
got worse over time because of the heat produced. It's a destructive
cycle that happens over time until the wiring is destroyed or equipment
stops running. When the voltage drops, the current goes up and heat is
produced at the point of every marginal connection and there can be
more than one. The spring tension of the electrical outlet contacts is
one of the first things destroyed by heat and that leads to a problem
connection which can cascade from there by burning up the plug and
cord. The Mark-1 eyeball and SM-3-b nose are often the only tools
needed to detect the damaged components.

In a home kitchen, folks often spray cleaner on a wall to wipe off
splatters and such. The spray often gets into the electrical outlets
and onto the plugs which can cause corrosion. The spray can run down
the wall and get into the outlet even if there is a plug in it.

TDD

"keith" wrote in message
...
On Aug 6, 6:02 am, "RBM" wrote:
Also, can you explain "split countertop receptacle"? What is the

"split" about?
I went on-line to get a definition, but never did find one as such.
Found a number of sites, but all
too technical for me. Whatever the job turns out to be, I will have
to hire a qualified
electrician; this is not a DIY, even with help.

Also: You say "The countertop receptacles should be on GFCI protected
circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way." Can you explain the reason?

Also: Someone in this thread suggested refrigerator cycling on might
be causing the trips.
I just checked by disabling the breaker governing MW and gas oven, and
it does NOT govern the refrig.

Last: Would doing the "split countertop receptacle" obviate the
necessity of replacing what
might be a defective breaker controlling the MW and gas oven, leading
to repeated trips?

TIA to all for your continued help! Much appreciated.

HB

A split receptacle is what they do in kitchens in Canada. It's two
circuits
to one outlet. It's not typically done in the U.S. In the U.S. all
kitchen
counter top outlets are supposed to be GFCI protected, regardless of what
they're used for. All you really need to do to remedy your problem, is
run
a
dedicated 20 amp circuit and outlet for this microwave.

Which still leaves him with only one countertop receptacle, which
cannot handle both a toaster and a tea kettle - there is a reason
Canadian codes are more stringent than US - They make a lot more
sense.

To remedy the problem and live with the same restrictions he now has,
just replace the breaker. If spending the money to add a new circuit -
get 2 for just a bit more than the one - the labour will be virtually
identical, and the material cost negligibly higher (14/3 or 12/3
instead of 14/2 or 12/2 cable is MABEE 30% more expensive - more
likely 15% or so.

You have no idea how many receptacles , circuits, or countertops the OP
has.
What the OP should do, is determine exactly what his problem is, then fix
it
and not willy nilly replacing parts like a bad mechanic

Often replacing parts is the cheapest solution. If parts cost is
trivial compared to labor it's the way to go. It's a lot better
advice to give long-distance, too.

I'm not disagreeing with you, however if it's a solution, and it's cheap,
great, but if it doesn't solve the problem, it's jus a waste of time.

In many of these situations, if the OP would just answer a few questions, a
lot can be determined. In this case the OP has a near new microwave that
draws 14 amps. He has a house built in the forties. He does know that the
circuit is not dedicated to the microwave, but it's still not clear how many
other outlets might be on that circuit. Outlets that may be in other rooms,
and drawing current that the OP doesn't know about. It's also not clear if
it's a 15 or 20 amp circuit. If it's 15 amp, and not dedicated, and the
microwave draws 14 amps, you can change breakers all day, and your not going
to solve the problem.

On Fri, 6 Aug 2010 16:38:17 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


"keith" wrote in message
...
On Aug 6, 6:02 am, "RBM" wrote:
Also, can you explain "split countertop receptacle"? What is the

"split" about?
I went on-line to get a definition, but never did find one as such.
Found a number of sites, but all
too technical for me. Whatever the job turns out to be, I will have
to hire a qualified
electrician; this is not a DIY, even with help.

Also: You say "The countertop receptacles should be on GFCI protected
circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way." Can you explain the reason?

Also: Someone in this thread suggested refrigerator cycling on might
be causing the trips.
I just checked by disabling the breaker governing MW and gas oven, and
it does NOT govern the refrig.

Last: Would doing the "split countertop receptacle" obviate the
necessity of replacing what
might be a defective breaker controlling the MW and gas oven, leading
to repeated trips?

TIA to all for your continued help! Much appreciated.

HB

A split receptacle is what they do in kitchens in Canada. It's two
circuits
to one outlet. It's not typically done in the U.S. In the U.S. all
kitchen
counter top outlets are supposed to be GFCI protected, regardless of what
they're used for. All you really need to do to remedy your problem, is
run
a
dedicated 20 amp circuit and outlet for this microwave.

Which still leaves him with only one countertop receptacle, which
cannot handle both a toaster and a tea kettle - there is a reason
Canadian codes are more stringent than US - They make a lot more
sense.

To remedy the problem and live with the same restrictions he now has,
just replace the breaker. If spending the money to add a new circuit -
get 2 for just a bit more than the one - the labour will be virtually
identical, and the material cost negligibly higher (14/3 or 12/3
instead of 14/2 or 12/2 cable is MABEE 30% more expensive - more
likely 15% or so.

You have no idea how many receptacles , circuits, or countertops the OP
has.
What the OP should do, is determine exactly what his problem is, then fix
it
and not willy nilly replacing parts like a bad mechanic

Often replacing parts is the cheapest solution. If parts cost is
trivial compared to labor it's the way to go. It's a lot better
advice to give long-distance, too.

I'm not disagreeing with you, however if it's a solution, and it's cheap,
great, but if it doesn't solve the problem, it's jus a waste of time.

That's kinda redundant, no? "If it works, it works but if it doesn't, you
should have done something else", sort of argument.

In many of these situations, if the OP would just answer a few questions, a
lot can be determined. In this case the OP has a near new microwave that
draws 14 amps. He has a house built in the forties. He does know that the
circuit is not dedicated to the microwave, but it's still not clear how many
other outlets might be on that circuit. Outlets that may be in other rooms,
and drawing current that the OP doesn't know about. It's also not clear if
it's a 15 or 20 amp circuit. If it's 15 amp, and not dedicated, and the
microwave draws 14 amps, you can change breakers all day, and your not going
to solve the problem.

Others have brought this up. Others have also, rightly, pointed out that
circuit breakers weaken after multiple trips. It should be replaced anyway.
If that solves the problem, all done. If not, you're right; the problem was
something else.

On Aug 6, 9:50*pm, "
wrote:
On Fri, 6 Aug 2010 16:38:17 -0400, "RBM" wrote:

"keith" wrote in message
....
On Aug 6, 6:02 am, "RBM" wrote:
Also, can you explain "split countertop receptacle"? What is the

"split" about?
I went on-line to get a definition, but never did find one as such.
Found a number of sites, but all
too technical for me. Whatever the job turns out to be, I will have
to hire a qualified
electrician; this is not a DIY, even with help.

Also: You say "The countertop receptacles should be on GFCI protected
circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way." Can you explain the reason?

Also: Someone in this thread suggested refrigerator cycling on might
be causing the trips.
I just checked by disabling the breaker governing MW and gas oven, and
it does NOT govern the refrig.

Last: Would doing the "split countertop receptacle" obviate the
necessity of replacing what
might be a defective breaker controlling the MW and gas oven, leading
to repeated trips?

TIA to all for your continued help! Much appreciated.

HB

A split receptacle is what they do in kitchens in Canada. It's two
circuits
to one outlet. It's not typically done in the U.S. In the U.S. all
kitchen
counter top outlets are supposed to be GFCI protected, regardless of what
they're used for. All you really need to do to remedy your problem, is
run
a
dedicated 20 amp circuit and outlet for this microwave.

Which still leaves him with only one countertop receptacle, which
cannot handle both a toaster and a tea kettle - there is a reason
Canadian codes are more stringent than US - They make a lot more
sense.

To remedy the problem and live with the same restrictions he now has,
just replace the breaker. If spending the money to add a new circuit -
get 2 for just a bit more than the one - the labour will be virtually
identical, and the material cost negligibly higher (14/3 or 12/3
instead of 14/2 or 12/2 cable is MABEE 30% more expensive - more
likely 15% or so.

You have no idea how many receptacles , circuits, or countertops the OP
has.
What the OP should do, is determine exactly what his problem is, then fix
it
and not willy nilly replacing parts like a bad mechanic

Often replacing parts is the cheapest solution. *If parts cost is
trivial compared to labor it's the way to go. *It's a lot better
advice to give long-distance, too.

I'm not disagreeing with you, however if it's a solution, and it's cheap,
great, but if it doesn't solve the problem, it's jus a waste of time.

That's kinda redundant, no? *"If it works, it works but if it doesn't, you
should have done something else", sort of argument.

In many of these situations, if the OP would just answer a few questions, a
lot can be determined. In this case the OP has a near new microwave that
draws 14 amps. He has a house built in the forties. He does know that the
circuit is not dedicated to the microwave, but it's still not clear how many
other outlets might be on that circuit. Outlets that may be in other rooms,
and drawing current that the OP doesn't know about. It's also not clear if
it's a 15 or 20 amp circuit. If it's 15 amp, and not dedicated, and the
microwave draws 14 amps, you can change breakers all day, and your not going
to solve the problem.

Others have brought this up. *Others have also, rightly, pointed out that
circuit breakers weaken after multiple trips.

Now THAT is interesting! Just as a matter of intellectual curiosity,
what makes
the breaker "weaken after multiple trips". Inquiring minds...

*It should be replaced anyway.
If that solves the problem, all done. *If not, you're right; the problem was
something else.

That seems to be the consensus, so here goes finding an electrician,
fingers crossed.

Don't forget to explain about weakening after multiple trips

TIA

HB

On Aug 6, 1:38*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"keith" wrote in message

...
On Aug 6, 6:02 am, "RBM" wrote:



Also, can you explain "split countertop receptacle"? What is the

"split" about?
I went on-line to get a definition, but never did find one as such.
Found a number of sites, but all
too technical for me. Whatever the job turns out to be, I will have
to hire a qualified
electrician; this is not a DIY, even with help.

Also: You say "The countertop receptacles should be on GFCI protected
circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way." Can you explain the reason?

Also: Someone in this thread suggested refrigerator cycling on might
be causing the trips.
I just checked by disabling the breaker governing MW and gas oven, and
it does NOT govern the refrig.

Last: Would doing the "split countertop receptacle" obviate the
necessity of replacing what
might be a defective breaker controlling the MW and gas oven, leading
to repeated trips?

TIA to all for your continued help! Much appreciated.

HB

A split receptacle is what they do in kitchens in Canada. It's two
circuits
to one outlet. It's not typically done in the U.S. In the U.S. all
kitchen
counter top outlets are supposed to be GFCI protected, regardless of what
they're used for. All you really need to do to remedy your problem, is
run
a
dedicated 20 amp circuit and outlet for this microwave.

Which still leaves him with only one countertop receptacle, which
cannot handle both a toaster and a tea kettle - there is a reason
Canadian codes are more stringent than US - They make a lot more
sense.

To remedy the problem and live with the same restrictions he now has,
just replace the breaker. If spending the money to add a new circuit -
get 2 for just a bit more than the one - the labour will be virtually
identical, and the material cost negligibly higher (14/3 or 12/3
instead of 14/2 or 12/2 cable is MABEE 30% more expensive - more
likely 15% or so.

You have no idea how many receptacles , circuits, or countertops the OP
has.
What the OP should do, is determine exactly what his problem is, then fix
it
and not willy nilly replacing parts like a bad mechanic

Often replacing parts is the cheapest solution. *If parts cost is
trivial compared to labor it's the way to go. *It's a lot better
advice to give long-distance, too.

I'm not disagreeing with you, however if it's a solution, and it's cheap,
great, but if it doesn't solve the problem, it's jus a waste of time.

In many of these situations, if the OP would just answer a few questions, a
lot can be determined. In this case the OP has a near new microwave that
draws 14 amps. He has a house built in the forties. He does know that the
circuit is not dedicated to the microwave, but it's still not clear how many
other outlets might be on that circuit. Outlets that may be in other rooms,
and drawing current that the OP doesn't know about. It's also not clear if
it's a 15 or 20 amp circuit. If it's 15 amp, and not dedicated, and the
microwave draws 14 amps, you can change breakers all day, and your not going
to solve the problem.

I wrote a reply but guess it didn't make it.

I DID "answer a few questions" multiple times. Made it clear that no
other
outlets on that circuit, and no outlets in other rooms draw current
worth a damn.

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
...
On Aug 6, 1:38 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"keith" wrote in message

...
On Aug 6, 6:02 am, "RBM" wrote:



Also, can you explain "split countertop receptacle"? What is the

"split" about?
I went on-line to get a definition, but never did find one as such.
Found a number of sites, but all
too technical for me. Whatever the job turns out to be, I will have
to hire a qualified
electrician; this is not a DIY, even with help.

Also: You say "The countertop receptacles should be on GFCI protected
circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way." Can you explain the reason?

Also: Someone in this thread suggested refrigerator cycling on might
be causing the trips.
I just checked by disabling the breaker governing MW and gas oven, and
it does NOT govern the refrig.

Last: Would doing the "split countertop receptacle" obviate the
necessity of replacing what
might be a defective breaker controlling the MW and gas oven, leading
to repeated trips?

TIA to all for your continued help! Much appreciated.

HB

A split receptacle is what they do in kitchens in Canada. It's two
circuits
to one outlet. It's not typically done in the U.S. In the U.S. all
kitchen
counter top outlets are supposed to be GFCI protected, regardless of
what
they're used for. All you really need to do to remedy your problem, is
run
a
dedicated 20 amp circuit and outlet for this microwave.

Which still leaves him with only one countertop receptacle, which
cannot handle both a toaster and a tea kettle - there is a reason
Canadian codes are more stringent than US - They make a lot more
sense.

To remedy the problem and live with the same restrictions he now has,
just replace the breaker. If spending the money to add a new circuit -
get 2 for just a bit more than the one - the labour will be virtually
identical, and the material cost negligibly higher (14/3 or 12/3
instead of 14/2 or 12/2 cable is MABEE 30% more expensive - more
likely 15% or so.

You have no idea how many receptacles , circuits, or countertops the OP
has.
What the OP should do, is determine exactly what his problem is, then
fix
it
and not willy nilly replacing parts like a bad mechanic

Often replacing parts is the cheapest solution. If parts cost is
trivial compared to labor it's the way to go. It's a lot better
advice to give long-distance, too.

I'm not disagreeing with you, however if it's a solution, and it's cheap,
great, but if it doesn't solve the problem, it's jus a waste of time.

In many of these situations, if the OP would just answer a few questions,
a
lot can be determined. In this case the OP has a near new microwave that
draws 14 amps. He has a house built in the forties. He does know that the
circuit is not dedicated to the microwave, but it's still not clear how
many
other outlets might be on that circuit. Outlets that may be in other
rooms,
and drawing current that the OP doesn't know about. It's also not clear if
it's a 15 or 20 amp circuit. If it's 15 amp, and not dedicated, and the
microwave draws 14 amps, you can change breakers all day, and your not
going
to solve the problem.

I wrote a reply but guess it didn't make it.

I DID "answer a few questions" multiple times. Made it clear that no
other
outlets on that circuit, and no outlets in other rooms draw current
worth a damn.

HB, you never said if the circuit is 15 or 20 amp. The number is written on
the breaker handle.
If it is a 15 amp circuit, and your micro draws 14 amps, anything else that
may be on that circuit only needs to draw 1 amp to reach the capacity of the
breaker.

Well mine is fixed, it began tripping often then wouldnt reset.

So I used a spare breaker and all is well, a 15 minute fix mostly
moving stuff to get to the main panel..........

On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 00:41:14 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:

On Aug 6, 9:50*pm, "
wrote:
On Fri, 6 Aug 2010 16:38:17 -0400, "RBM" wrote:

"keith" wrote in message
...
On Aug 6, 6:02 am, "RBM" wrote:
Also, can you explain "split countertop receptacle"? What is the

"split" about?
I went on-line to get a definition, but never did find one as such.
Found a number of sites, but all
too technical for me. Whatever the job turns out to be, I will have
to hire a qualified
electrician; this is not a DIY, even with help.

Also: You say "The countertop receptacles should be on GFCI protected
circuits whereas the microwave
and oven are not so critical that way." Can you explain the reason?

Also: Someone in this thread suggested refrigerator cycling on might
be causing the trips.
I just checked by disabling the breaker governing MW and gas oven, and
it does NOT govern the refrig.

Last: Would doing the "split countertop receptacle" obviate the
necessity of replacing what
might be a defective breaker controlling the MW and gas oven, leading
to repeated trips?

TIA to all for your continued help! Much appreciated.

HB

A split receptacle is what they do in kitchens in Canada. It's two
circuits
to one outlet. It's not typically done in the U.S. In the U.S. all
kitchen
counter top outlets are supposed to be GFCI protected, regardless of what
they're used for. All you really need to do to remedy your problem, is
run
a
dedicated 20 amp circuit and outlet for this microwave.

Which still leaves him with only one countertop receptacle, which
cannot handle both a toaster and a tea kettle - there is a reason
Canadian codes are more stringent than US - They make a lot more
sense.

To remedy the problem and live with the same restrictions he now has,
just replace the breaker. If spending the money to add a new circuit -
get 2 for just a bit more than the one - the labour will be virtually
identical, and the material cost negligibly higher (14/3 or 12/3
instead of 14/2 or 12/2 cable is MABEE 30% more expensive - more
likely 15% or so.

You have no idea how many receptacles , circuits, or countertops the OP
has.
What the OP should do, is determine exactly what his problem is, then fix
it
and not willy nilly replacing parts like a bad mechanic

Often replacing parts is the cheapest solution. *If parts cost is
trivial compared to labor it's the way to go. *It's a lot better
advice to give long-distance, too.

I'm not disagreeing with you, however if it's a solution, and it's cheap,
great, but if it doesn't solve the problem, it's jus a waste of time.

That's kinda redundant, no? *"If it works, it works but if it doesn't, you
should have done something else", sort of argument.

In many of these situations, if the OP would just answer a few questions, a
lot can be determined. In this case the OP has a near new microwave that
draws 14 amps. He has a house built in the forties. He does know that the
circuit is not dedicated to the microwave, but it's still not clear how many
other outlets might be on that circuit. Outlets that may be in other rooms,
and drawing current that the OP doesn't know about. It's also not clear if
it's a 15 or 20 amp circuit. If it's 15 amp, and not dedicated, and the
microwave draws 14 amps, you can change breakers all day, and your not going
to solve the problem.

Others have brought this up. *Others have also, rightly, pointed out that
circuit breakers weaken after multiple trips.

Now THAT is interesting! Just as a matter of intellectual curiosity,
what makes
the breaker "weaken after multiple trips". Inquiring minds...

*It should be replaced anyway.
If that solves the problem, all done. *If not, you're right; the problem was
something else.

That seems to be the consensus, so here goes finding an electrician,
fingers crossed.

Don't forget to explain about weakening after multiple trips

Not sure, but I think it's wear on the mechanical parts (springs, friction
surfaces to determine trip levels, etc.). These things, unless rated as
switches, aren't intended to be cycled manually either.