I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years. My
family is in the construction business so I know a little about building and
maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years without
a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate the
concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a product
called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what the difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand added
to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do not
use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete should
be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and not only is it
sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at Lowe's and
he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any responsibility. Lowe's
sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their agreement the
manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile so I called
Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that Lowe's does not
warranty any products they sell and is not responsible. All they'll do is
refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was their
policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking them
and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important at this
point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email
, they really don't.

On Apr 8, 9:20*am, "Sanity" wrote:
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years. My
family is in the construction business so I know a little about building and
maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years without
a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate the
concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a product
called "Ice Melt and Traction". *I asked the associate what the difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand added
to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do not
use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete should
be sealed". *Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and not only is it
sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. *I went to the manager at Lowe's and
he instituted a claim. *The manufacturer denies any responsibility. *Lowe's
sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their agreement the
manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile so I called
Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that Lowe's does not
warranty any products they sell and is not responsible. All they'll do is
refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was their
policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking them
and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important at this
point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email
, they really don't.

"All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag of ice
melt. "

....and institute a claim and write a demand letter to the
manufacturer.

What else do you want them to do? Do you think that they are
responsible for the flaking of your concrete?

The following information is available on their website. Yes, it is
written for the website, but I'll bet if you searched enough, you
could find similar words regarding the products sold in their stores.
Bottom line: Lowes doesn't warranty what they sell, the manufacturer
does. The last 2 sentences clearly state their policy.

*** Begin Included Text ***

Product Information and Warranties

At Lowe's we carry the Brand Names You Know and Trust(c). Unless
indicated otherwise, most products and services featured on the site
are available directly from or through Lowe's. Lowe's has made a
conscientious effort to display and describe its products and services
on the site accurately so that you can get a good idea of their design
and use, and of the services offered. Furthermore, Lowe's is
constantly improving its information, products and services.

Consequently, Lowe's cannot and does not guarantee the accuracy or
completeness of the information, including prices, product images,
specifications, availability and services. Products and services are
the responsibility of the manufacturer or provider of those services
and are covered by the warranties offered by such manufacturers or
providers.

*** End Included Text ***

http://www.lowes.com/cd_Terms+and+Co...d%20Warranties

On 4/8/2010 9:35 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 8, 9:20 am, wrote:
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years. My
family is in the construction business so I know a little about building and
maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years without
a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate the
concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a product
called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what the difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand added
to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do not
use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete should
be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and not only is it
sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at Lowe's and
he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any responsibility. Lowe's
sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their agreement the
manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile so I called
Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that Lowe's does not
warranty any products they sell and is not responsible. All they'll do is
refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was their
policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking them
and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important at this
point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email
, they really don't.

"All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag of ice
melt. "

...and institute a claim and write a demand letter to the
manufacturer.

What else do you want them to do? Do you think that they are
responsible for the flaking of your concrete?

The following information is available on their website. Yes, it is
written for the website, but I'll bet if you searched enough, you
could find similar words regarding the products sold in their stores.
Bottom line: Lowes doesn't warranty what they sell, the manufacturer
does. The last 2 sentences clearly state their policy.

*** Begin Included Text ***

Product Information and Warranties

At Lowe's we carry the Brand Names You Know and Trust(c). Unless
indicated otherwise, most products and services featured on the site
are available directly from or through Lowe's. Lowe's has made a
conscientious effort to display and describe its products and services
on the site accurately so that you can get a good idea of their design
and use, and of the services offered. Furthermore, Lowe's is
constantly improving its information, products and services.

Consequently, Lowe's cannot and does not guarantee the accuracy or
completeness of the information, including prices, product images,
specifications, availability and services. Products and services are
the responsibility of the manufacturer or provider of those services
and are covered by the warranties offered by such manufacturers or
providers.

*** End Included Text ***

http://www.lowes.com/cd_Terms+and+Co...d%20Warranties

Sure, those are the legal weasel words used by big box but that doesn't
mean they hold water. Anyone can declare anything about why they aren't
responsible for something. The end result depends on how much more money
you want to give to lawyers.

On Apr 8, 9:20*am, "Sanity" wrote:
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years. My
family is in the construction business so I know a little about building and
maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years without
a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate the
concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a product
called "Ice Melt and Traction". *I asked the associate what the difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand added
to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do not
use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete should
be sealed". *Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and not only is it
sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. *I went to the manager at Lowe's and
he instituted a claim. *The manufacturer denies any responsibility. *Lowe's
sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their agreement the
manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile so I called
Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that Lowe's does not
warranty any products they sell and is not responsible. All they'll do is
refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was their
policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking them
and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important at this
point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email
, they really don't.

If you pursue a civil lawsuit, do not accept any refund for the
product you purchased. Lowes may argue that upon your acceptance of a
refund, you are satisfied of the issue, and Lowes has no further
responsibility in the matter.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 9:20 am, "Sanity" wrote:
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years.
My
family is in the construction business so I know a little about building
and
maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without
a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate the
concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a
product
called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what the
difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand
added
to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do not
use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete
should
be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and not only is it
sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at Lowe's
and
he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any responsibility.
Lowe's
sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their agreement the
manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile so I called
Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that Lowe's does
not
warranty any products they sell and is not responsible. All they'll do is
refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was
their
policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking them
and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important at
this
point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email
, they really don't.

"All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag of ice
melt. "

...and institute a claim and write a demand letter to the
manufacturer.

What else do you want them to do? Do you think that they are
responsible for the flaking of your concrete?

The following information is available on their website. Yes, it is
written for the website, but I'll bet if you searched enough, you
could find similar words regarding the products sold in their stores.
Bottom line: Lowes doesn't warranty what they sell, the manufacturer
does. The last 2 sentences clearly state their policy.

*** Begin Included Text ***

Product Information and Warranties

At Lowe's we carry the Brand Names You Know and Trust(c). Unless
indicated otherwise, most products and services featured on the site
are available directly from or through Lowe's. Lowe's has made a
conscientious effort to display and describe its products and services
on the site accurately so that you can get a good idea of their design
and use, and of the services offered. Furthermore, Lowe's is
constantly improving its information, products and services.

Consequently, Lowe's cannot and does not guarantee the accuracy or
completeness of the information, including prices, product images,
specifications, availability and services. Products and services are
the responsibility of the manufacturer or provider of those services
and are covered by the warranties offered by such manufacturers or
providers.

*** End Included Text ***

http://www.lowes.com/cd_Terms+and+Co...d%20Warranties

This is the first communication Lowe's sent me a copy of. This they sent to
the manufacturer. I read it that the terms they have makes the manufacturer
responsible. Then Lowe's later denied it. They also refused to send me a
copy of their merchants agreements but my lawyer will get it.

"I direct your attention to the Master Standard Buying Agreement, executed
between your company and Lowe's. Please refer to Article V, WARRANTIES AND
GUARANTEES, sec (5) which contains the following indemnification
agreement.
Pursuant to this agreement your company is responsible for this matter.
Your company is responsible to Lowe's for the defense and indemnification
of any and all claims, including expenses and legal fees resulting from
this matter. Lowe's will exercise all available legal remedies to enforce
this agreement Failure on your part to respond to this may result in
additional expenses, as well as legal action being taken against your
company.
Lowe's therefore demands immediate acceptance of this claim in writing. If
you have any applicable liability insurance coverage for this matter, you
should immediately place your insurance carrier on notice."

Sanity wrote the following:
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd
years. My family is in the construction business so I know a little
about building and maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would
deteriorate the concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased
Ice Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had
a product called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what
the difference was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the
same with sand added to give better traction. I read the label very
carefully. It said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year
old or not cured. Concrete should be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5
years old, cured and not only is it sealed, I sealed it with product
recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at
Lowe's and he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any
responsibility. Lowe's sent them a 'demand' letter stating that
according to their agreement the manufacturer must assume liability. I
didn't hear for awhile so I called Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was
told by their office that Lowe's does not warranty any products they
sell and is not responsible. All they'll do is refund the money I paid
for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was their policy on
everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking them and
the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important at
this point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to
email , they really don't.



Was the second person you talked to, the same manager?
If not, the second person probably doesn't know the company policy on
claims.
Contact the manager again and ask what is going on.
You can't condemn a whole company for one person's remarks.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Apr 8, 10:37*am, Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:20:27 -0400, "Sanity" wrote:





I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years. My
family is in the construction business so I know a little about building and
maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years without
a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate the
concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a product
called "Ice Melt and Traction". *I asked the associate what the difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand added
to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do not
use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete should
be sealed". *Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and not only is it
sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. *I went to the manager at Lowe's and
he instituted a claim. *The manufacturer denies any responsibility. *Lowe's
sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their agreement the
manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile so I called
Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that Lowe's does not
warranty any products they sell and is not responsible. All they'll do is
refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was their
policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking them
and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important at this
point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email
, they really don't.

I don't believe you. If the concreate was sealed properly it wouldn't
be affected. If you applied the ice melt outside of the life of the
sealer it's your fault. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd be interested in hearing how from a practical standpoint he plans
on suing Lowes and the manufacturer of the product. Among the
obvious problems, the manufacturer is typically located someplace far
away. Don't you have to sue them in the jurisdiction where they are
located?

And regardless, for what you MIGHT recover, it would seem to me that
your going to pour a lot of money down a rat hole trying. I
seriously doubt any attorney is going to take this on a contingency.
Then, you need expert testimony that the problem in fact is
attributable to their product as opposed to your incorrect use of it,
sub standard concrete, etc.

If the product is defective, I'd say that unless you can prove Lowes
knew about it, that they are not responsible. The manufacturer is.
Personally, if the bag had warnings about not using it on concrete
less than a year old or concrete that is not sealed, I would not have
used it on ANY concrete that I was concerned about from a cosmetic
standpoint.

On Apr 8, 8:20*am, "Sanity" wrote:
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years. My
family is in the construction business so I know a little about building and
maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years without
a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate the
concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a product
called "Ice Melt and Traction". *I asked the associate what the difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand added
to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do not
use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete should
be sealed". *Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and not only is it
sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. *I went to the manager at Lowe's and
he instituted a claim. *The manufacturer denies any responsibility. *Lowe's
sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their agreement the
manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile so I called
Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that Lowe's does not
warranty any products they sell and is not responsible. All they'll do is
refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was their
policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking them
and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important at this
point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email
, they really don't.

Was It "Lowes" Ice melter brand, or another company, if it isnt Lowes
you wont win you need to go after the other copmpany.

On 4/8/2010 10:58 AM, wrote:
On Apr 8, 10:37 am, Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:20:27 -0400, wrote:





I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years. My
family is in the construction business so I know a little about building and
maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years without
a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate the
concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a product
called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what the difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand added
to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do not
use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete should
be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and not only is it
sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at Lowe's and
he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any responsibility. Lowe's
sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their agreement the
manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile so I called
Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that Lowe's does not
warranty any products they sell and is not responsible. All they'll do is
refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was their
policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking them
and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important at this
point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email
, they really don't.

I don't believe you. If the concreate was sealed properly it wouldn't
be affected. If you applied the ice melt outside of the life of the
sealer it's your fault. - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd be interested in hearing how from a practical standpoint he plans
on suing Lowes and the manufacturer of the product. Among the
obvious problems, the manufacturer is typically located someplace far
away. Don't you have to sue them in the jurisdiction where they are
located?

And regardless, for what you MIGHT recover, it would seem to me that
your going to pour a lot of money down a rat hole trying. I
seriously doubt any attorney is going to take this on a contingency.
Then, you need expert testimony that the problem in fact is
attributable to their product as opposed to your incorrect use of it,
sub standard concrete, etc.

If the product is defective, I'd say that unless you can prove Lowes
knew about it, that they are not responsible. The manufacturer is.
Personally, if the bag had warnings about not using it on concrete
less than a year old or concrete that is not sealed, I would not have
used it on ANY concrete that I was concerned about from a cosmetic
standpoint.

I think he is dealing with a big box (low) quality product and may
actually have a case.

Last winter we had freezing rain late in the winter and I ran out of ice
melt. I happened to be driving right by a home cheepo so I figured I
would get a small bag. Usually I get it from an evil mom & pop place but
that wasn't anywhere near where I was traveling.

I went in and they had a pallet of bagged "super ice melt" that declared
on the packaging that is was "safe for concrete over a year old". I
looked at the tiny ingredients list and noted that it was mostly NaCl.
If you want to destroy concrete sodium chloride is a great way to do it.
I found someone and asked if they had a quality ice melt product that
was just pelletized calcium chloride and he said they only get a small
amount in and the "super ice melt" was cheaper.

I called the evil mom & pop place and they said they still had stock of
the pelletized calcium chloride ice melt. It was actually less expensive
than the home cheepo "super ice melt" for the same weight but since it
is much more efficient than rock salt it is equivalent to maybe two or
three bags of "super ice melt".

"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:20:27 -0400, "Sanity" wrote:

I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years.
My
family is in the construction business so I know a little about building
and
maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without
a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate the
concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a
product
called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what the difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand added
to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do not
use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete should
be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and not only is it
sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at Lowe's
and
he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any responsibility.
Lowe's
sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their agreement the
manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile so I called
Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that Lowe's does
not
warranty any products they sell and is not responsible. All they'll do is
refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was their
policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking them
and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important at
this
point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email
, they really don't.


I don't believe you. If the concreate was sealed properly it wouldn't
be affected. If you applied the ice melt outside of the life of the
sealer it's your fault.

You can believe whatever the hell you want. As I previously said, my family
is in the construction business and we handle concrete continuously. My
driveway was sealed twice in five years.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 10:37 am, Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:20:27 -0400, "Sanity" wrote:





I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years.
My
family is in the construction business so I know a little about building
and
maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without
a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate the
concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a
product
called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what the
difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand
added
to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do
not
use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete
should
be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and not only is it
sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at Lowe's
and
he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any responsibility.
Lowe's
sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their agreement
the
manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile so I called
Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that Lowe's does
not
warranty any products they sell and is not responsible. All they'll do
is
refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was
their
policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking
them
and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important at
this
point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email
, they really don't.

I don't believe you. If the concreate was sealed properly it wouldn't
be affected. If you applied the ice melt outside of the life of the
sealer it's your fault. - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd be interested in hearing how from a practical standpoint he plans
on suing Lowes and the manufacturer of the product. Among the
obvious problems, the manufacturer is typically located someplace far
away. Don't you have to sue them in the jurisdiction where they are
located?

And regardless, for what you MIGHT recover, it would seem to me that
your going to pour a lot of money down a rat hole trying. I
seriously doubt any attorney is going to take this on a contingency.
Then, you need expert testimony that the problem in fact is
attributable to their product as opposed to your incorrect use of it,
sub standard concrete, etc.

If the product is defective, I'd say that unless you can prove Lowes
knew about it, that they are not responsible. The manufacturer is.
Personally, if the bag had warnings about not using it on concrete
less than a year old or concrete that is not sealed, I would not have
used it on ANY concrete that I was concerned about from a cosmetic
standpoint.

You can sue in Small Claims court. As long as one of the defendants is from
this jurisdiction it will be heard here and the manufacturer would be served
by the sheriff and he has to send a representative. Small claims here is
$5000. Repairing my driveway will be about 1500 to 2200.

On 4/8/2010 12:10 PM, Sanity wrote:


"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:20:27 -0400, "Sanity" wrote:

I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd
years. My
family is in the construction business so I know a little about
building and
maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without
a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate the
concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a
product
called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what the
difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand
added
to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do
not
use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete
should
be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and not only is it
sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at
Lowe's and
he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any responsibility.
Lowe's
sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their agreement
the
manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile so I called
Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that Lowe's
does not
warranty any products they sell and is not responsible. All they'll
do is
refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was
their
policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking
them
and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important
at this
point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email
, they really don't.


I don't believe you. If the concreate was sealed properly it wouldn't
be affected. If you applied the ice melt outside of the life of the
sealer it's your fault.

You can believe whatever the hell you want. As I previously said, my
family is in the construction business and we handle concrete
continuously. My driveway was sealed twice in five years.

Likely you didn't notice you are replying to someone who calls
themselves "Jeff the drunk"...

"willshak" wrote in message
...
Sanity wrote the following:
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years.
My family is in the construction business so I know a little about
building and maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate
the concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a
product called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what the
difference was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same
with sand added to give better traction. I read the label very carefully.
It said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not
cured. Concrete should be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5 years old,
cured and not only is it sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by
Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at Lowe's
and he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any responsibility.
Lowe's sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their
agreement the manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for
awhile so I called Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their
office that Lowe's does not warranty any products they sell and is not
responsible. All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag of ice
melt. I asked if this was their policy on everything they sell and they
said 'yes'. I will be taking them and the manufacturer to court. Whether
I win or not is not important at this point. I just want everyone to know
that when Lowe's tells you to email , they really don't.



Was the second person you talked to, the same manager?
If not, the second person probably doesn't know the company policy on
claims.
Contact the manager again and ask what is going on.
You can't condemn a whole company for one person's remarks.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Spoke to two different managers in two different stores. Spoke to Lowe's
insurance company, SRS and they initially told me the manufacturer was
responsible and that Lowe's had a signed contract stating that.

Unless Lowes made the product, the title of your thread is wrong.

Fixed it for ya.

On 08/04/10 6:20 AM, Sanity wrote:

As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at Lowe's
and he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any responsibility.
Lowe's sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their
agreement the manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for
awhile so I called Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their
office that Lowe's does not warranty any products they sell and is not
responsible. All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag of
ice melt. I asked if this was their policy on everything they sell and
they said 'yes'. I will be taking them and the manufacturer to court.
Whether I win or not is not important at this point. I just want
everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email ,
they really don't.

While small claims court will limit your damages (with the limit
depending on your state), you're probably better off because neither
side can have a lawyer. You'll have to pick either the manufacturer or
Lowe's to sue in small claims, not both. I'd pick the manufacturer. A
judge is likely to rule against you if you sue Lowe's because they will
say that you should know not to believe anything an employee of the
store says about any product. Also, the manufacturer is unlikely to show
up at all, and you'd win by default, though collecting could be difficult.

On Apr 8, 12:14*pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"willshak" wrote in message

...





Sanity wrote the following:
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years.
My family is in the construction business so I know a little about
building and maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate
the concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a
product called "Ice Melt and Traction". *I asked the associate what the
difference was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same
with sand added to give better traction. I read the label very carefully.
It said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not
cured. Concrete should be sealed". *Well, my concrete is 5 years old,
cured and not only is it sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by
Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. *I went to the manager at Lowe's
and he instituted a claim. *The manufacturer denies any responsibility.
Lowe's sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their
agreement the manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for
awhile so I called Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their
office that Lowe's does not warranty any products they sell and is not
responsible. All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag of ice
melt. I asked if this was their policy on everything they sell and they
said 'yes'. I will be taking them and the manufacturer to court. Whether
I win or not is not important at this point. I just want everyone to know
that when Lowe's tells you to email , they really don't.

Was the second person you talked to, the same manager?
If not, the second person probably doesn't know the company policy on
claims.
Contact the manager again and ask what is going on.
You can't condemn a whole company for one person's remarks.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Spoke to two different managers in two different stores. *Spoke to
Lowe's
insurance company, SRS and they initially told me the manufacturer
was
responsible and that Lowe's had a signed contract stating that.


Isn't that eaxctly what the warranty terms I found at the Lowes site
state?

If the insurance company told you the same thing, why do you think you
have a case against Lowes?

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 12:14 pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"willshak" wrote in message

...





Sanity wrote the following:
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd
years.
My family is in the construction business so I know a little about
building and maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would
deteriorate
the concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased
Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a
product called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what
the
difference was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same
with sand added to give better traction. I read the label very
carefully.
It said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not
cured. Concrete should be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5 years old,
cured and not only is it sealed, I sealed it with product recommended
by
Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at
Lowe's
and he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any
responsibility.
Lowe's sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their
agreement the manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for
awhile so I called Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their
office that Lowe's does not warranty any products they sell and is not
responsible. All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag of
ice
melt. I asked if this was their policy on everything they sell and
they
said 'yes'. I will be taking them and the manufacturer to court.
Whether
I win or not is not important at this point. I just want everyone to
know
that when Lowe's tells you to email , they really
don't.

Was the second person you talked to, the same manager?
If not, the second person probably doesn't know the company policy on
claims.
Contact the manager again and ask what is going on.
You can't condemn a whole company for one person's remarks.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Spoke to two different managers in two different stores. Spoke to
Lowe's
insurance company, SRS and they initially told me the manufacturer
was
responsible and that Lowe's had a signed contract stating that.


Isn't that eaxctly what the warranty terms I found at the Lowes site
state?

If the insurance company told you the same thing, why do you think you
have a case against Lowes?

Did you bother to read the paragraph I posted? It's from the contract
manufacturers sign with Lowe's. They must offer a warranty or guaranty and
Lowe's will enforce the contract.

On Apr 8, 12:12*pm, "Sanity" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Apr 8, 10:37 am, Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:20:27 -0400, "Sanity" wrote:

I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years.
My
family is in the construction business so I know a little about building
and
maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without
a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate the
concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a
product
called "Ice Melt and Traction". *I asked the associate what the
difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand
added
to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do
not
use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete
should
be sealed". *Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and not only is it
sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. *I went to the manager at Lowe's
and
he instituted a claim. *The manufacturer denies any responsibility.
Lowe's
sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their agreement
the
manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile so I called
Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that Lowe's does
not
warranty any products they sell and is not responsible. All they'll do
is
refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was
their
policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking
them
and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important at
this
point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email
, they really don't.

I don't believe you. If the concreate was sealed properly it wouldn't
be affected. If you applied the ice melt outside of the life of the
sealer it's your fault. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd be interested in hearing how from a practical standpoint he plans
on suing Lowes and the manufacturer of the product. * Among the
obvious problems, the manufacturer is typically located someplace far
away. *Don't you have to sue them in the jurisdiction where they are
located?

And regardless, for what you MIGHT recover, it would seem to me that
your going to pour a lot of money down a rat hole trying. * I
seriously doubt any attorney is going to take this on a contingency.
Then, you need expert testimony that the problem in fact is
attributable to their product as opposed to your incorrect use of it,
sub standard concrete, etc.

If the product is defective, I'd say that unless you can prove Lowes
knew about it, that they are not responsible. *The manufacturer is.
Personally, if the bag had warnings about not using it on concrete
less than a year old or concrete that is not sealed, I would not have
used it on ANY concrete that I was concerned about from a cosmetic
standpoint.

You can sue in Small Claims court. As long as one of the defendants is from
this jurisdiction it will be heard here and the manufacturer would be served
by the sheriff and he has to send a representative. Small claims here is
$5000. *Repairing my driveway will be about 1500 to 2200.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

How do you repair flaking concrete and restore it to it's previous
condition for $2K? I can see how you can power wash it and re-seal
it, but unless the driveway is huge, that should be less and it
doesn't fix the chipped look.

"SMS" wrote in message
...


.. A
judge is likely to rule against you if you sue Lowe's because they will
say that you should know not to believe anything an employee of the store
says about any product.

That's one of the most foolish statements I've heard. A sales associate
represents the store. If he lies or misrepresents the store is responsible
for it. Just think. Go in and buy a shovel and the associate tells you that
that shovel will shovel your walk without you even holding. it. They'd sure
sell a lot of shovels but the next morning there would be a lot of screaming
customers out there. A representative of any company is exactly that, a
representative and/or agent.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 12:12 pm, "Sanity" wrote:


- Show quoted text -

How do you repair flaking concrete and restore it to it's previous
condition for $2K? I can see how you can power wash it and re-seal
it, but unless the driveway is huge, that should be less and it
doesn't fix the chipped look.

Concrete workers use a product that they call 'milk'. I don't remember the
trade name. You paint in onto the concrete to be repaired and let it dry.
You can then put a top coat of concrete 1/16 to 3/8 of an inch on top of the
adhesive and it will bond. I have done this many times before and it works.
Ask any concrete worker.

On Apr 8, 1:32*pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"SMS" wrote in message

...



. A
judge is likely to rule against you if you sue Lowe's because they will
say that you should know not to believe anything an employee of the store
says about any product.

That's one of the most foolish statements I've heard. * A sales associate
represents the store. If he lies or misrepresents the store is responsible
for it. Just think. Go in and buy a shovel and the associate tells you that
that shovel will shovel your walk without you even holding. it. They'd sure
sell a lot of shovels but the next morning there would be a lot of screaming
customers out there. *A representative of any company is exactly that, a
representative and/or agent.

On the other hand, everyone should know that the typical person on the
floor of the big box stores is hardly an authority on anything. They
can point you to the aisle for a product, but I think expecting them
to be a technical expert on the effects of a particular product on
concrete is pushing it. And you can't prove what the guy actually
said, can you? But even going by what you say he told you, I don't
see it as helping you much, if at all:

"I asked the associate what the difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand
added to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It
said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not
cured. Concrete should be sealed".

So, you read the label and it indicated it was OK for your application
and it must have been consistent with what the floor guy told you or
you would not have used it. Did it have the same melting ingredient
that you bought previously or not? The whole idea of "what they used
to carry" is very vague. It's not unusual to find stores like this
carrying various brands at various times. Both you and the floor guy
could be right. It could be the same melting ingredient as stuff he
saw sold at times in the past and different from what you happened to
buy. Proving any of that is very problematic.

It would seem to me that you are on much firmer ground going after the
manufacturer of the product.

On Apr 8, 1:24*pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...





On Apr 8, 12:14 pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"willshak" wrote in message

...

Sanity wrote the following:
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd
years.
My family is in the construction business so I know a little about
building and maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would
deteriorate
the concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased
Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a
product called "Ice Melt and Traction". *I asked the associate what
the
difference was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same
with sand added to give better traction. I read the label very
carefully.
It said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not
cured. Concrete should be sealed". *Well, my concrete is 5 years old,
cured and not only is it sealed, I sealed it with product recommended
by
Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. *I went to the manager at
Lowe's
and he instituted a claim. *The manufacturer denies any
responsibility.
Lowe's sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their
agreement the manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for
awhile so I called Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their
office that Lowe's does not warranty any products they sell and is not
responsible. All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag of
ice
melt. I asked if this was their policy on everything they sell and
they
said 'yes'. I will be taking them and the manufacturer to court.
Whether
I win or not is not important at this point. I just want everyone to
know
that when Lowe's tells you to email , they really
don't.

Was the second person you talked to, the same manager?
If not, the second person probably doesn't know the company policy on
claims.
Contact the manager again and ask what is going on.
You can't condemn a whole company for one person's remarks.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Spoke to two different managers in two different stores. *Spoke to
Lowe's
insurance company, SRS and they initially told me the manufacturer
was
responsible and that Lowe's had a signed contract stating that.

Isn't that eaxctly what the warranty terms I found at the Lowes site
state?

If the insurance company told you the same thing, why do you think you
have a case against Lowes?

Did you bother to read the paragraph I posted? It's from the contract
manufacturers sign with Lowe's. *They must offer a warranty or guaranty and
Lowe's will enforce the contract.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Did you bother to read the paragraph I posted?"

Now, what kind of a member of a.h.r would I be if I didn't what you
posted before responding?

In fact, I took what you posted to a Holiday Inn and read it there.
That now makes me an expert on the issue at hand.

It clearly states that the *manufacturer* is responsible.

"Pursuant to this agreement your company is responsible for this
matter."

It also states that the company is responsible to Lowes, not you.

Holiday Inn Bottom Line - *you* can't sue Lowes for anything. Lowes
can sue the manufacturer (should they choose to) but you don't have
any claim against *Lowes*.

"Sanity" wrote in message
...
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years. My
family is in the construction business so I know a little about building
and maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate
the concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a
product called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what the
difference was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with
sand added to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It
said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured.
Concrete should be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and
not only is it sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at Lowe's
and he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any responsibility.
Lowe's sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their
agreement the manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile
so I called Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that
Lowe's does not warranty any products they sell and is not responsible.
All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked
if this was their policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I
will be taking them and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is
not important at this point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's
tells you to email , they really don't.



I guess my 1st question would be what do you want? Second: are you going to
subpoena the associate? Because you can't use hearsay. You'll have to prove
that your cement wasn't at fault. It was a colder than avg. winter and it
may have had something to do with it. I doubt you'll be able to assess any
damage to Lowe's without a deposition or court appearance from the
associate. The product's instructions and disclaimer is what you'd be more
likely to use in court. Be prepared to furnish proof your cement isn't to
blame; partially or completely. Actually, what Lowe's told you is correct.
The associate probably wouldn't be able to assess any liability to Lowes
because he would only be expected to tell you what is stated on the product.
See? It always goes back to the product. Personally, I'd take Lowes out of
the loop. Your proof is the product's instructions and any disclaimer. Maybe
you'll get lucky and the co. lawyers will make you an offer. If you go to
court....I donno.....do your homework. They will throw it back on you.

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 13:32:05 -0400, "Sanity" wrote
Re Lowe's blows:

That's one of the most foolish statements I've heard. A sales associate
represents the store. If he lies or misrepresents the store is responsible
for it. Just think. Go in and buy a shovel and the associate tells you that
that shovel will shovel your walk without you even holding. it. They'd sure
sell a lot of shovels but the next morning there would be a lot of screaming
customers out there. A representative of any company is exactly that, a
representative and/or agent.

Seems to me that you have a good case.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

had to snip

Holiday Inn Bottom Line - *you* can't sue Lowes for anything. Lowes
can sue the manufacturer (should they choose to) but you don't have
any claim against *Lowes*.

He can sue anyone he wants. This is America! :-)

He has a VERY flimsy case against Lowes but it won't stand up. IMHO

Jim

"I asked the associate what the difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand
added to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It
said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not
cured. Concrete should be sealed".

So, you read the label and it indicated it was OK for your application
and it must have been consistent with what the floor guy told you or
you would not have used it. Did it have the same melting ingredient
that you bought previously or not? The whole idea of "what they used
to carry" is very vague. It's not unusual to find stores like this
carrying various brands at various times. Both you and the floor guy
could be right. It could be the same melting ingredient as stuff he
saw sold at times in the past and different from what you happened to
buy. Proving any of that is very problematic.

It would seem to me that you are on much firmer ground going after the
manufacturer of the product.

You keep pushing the point. When I went to the store to complain, I pointed
the associate out to the manager. The associate told the manager exactly
what he said which coincided with what I said.
No matter what you think of the store's associates, they mostly know the
store policies and usually know about the products in their aisles.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:24 pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...





On Apr 8, 12:14 pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"willshak" wrote in message

...

Sanity wrote the following:
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd
years.
My family is in the construction business so I know a little about
building and maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would
deteriorate
the concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've
purchased
Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a
product called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what
the
difference was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the
same
with sand added to give better traction. I read the label very
carefully.
It said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not
cured. Concrete should be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5 years
old,
cured and not only is it sealed, I sealed it with product
recommended
by
Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at
Lowe's
and he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any
responsibility.
Lowe's sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their
agreement the manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for
awhile so I called Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their
office that Lowe's does not warranty any products they sell and is
not
responsible. All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag
of
ice
melt. I asked if this was their policy on everything they sell and
they
said 'yes'. I will be taking them and the manufacturer to court.
Whether
I win or not is not important at this point. I just want everyone
to
know
that when Lowe's tells you to email , they really
don't.

Was the second person you talked to, the same manager?
If not, the second person probably doesn't know the company policy
on
claims.
Contact the manager again and ask what is going on.
You can't condemn a whole company for one person's remarks.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Spoke to two different managers in two different stores. Spoke to
Lowe's
insurance company, SRS and they initially told me the manufacturer
was
responsible and that Lowe's had a signed contract stating that.

Isn't that eaxctly what the warranty terms I found at the Lowes site
state?

If the insurance company told you the same thing, why do you think you
have a case against Lowes?

Did you bother to read the paragraph I posted? It's from the contract
manufacturers sign with Lowe's. They must offer a warranty or guaranty
and
Lowe's will enforce the contract.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Did you bother to read the paragraph I posted?"

Now, what kind of a member of a.h.r would I be if I didn't what you
posted before responding?

In fact, I took what you posted to a Holiday Inn and read it there.
That now makes me an expert on the issue at hand.

It clearly states that the *manufacturer* is responsible.

"Pursuant to this agreement your company is responsible for this
matter."

It also states that the company is responsible to Lowes, not you.

Holiday Inn Bottom Line - *you* can't sue Lowes for anything. Lowes
can sue the manufacturer (should they choose to) but you don't have
any claim against *Lowes*.

If Lowe's is not responsible to the end buyer why would they care if the
manufacturer guarantees their product. The reason? They know that
ultimately if a product is defective or causes harm, they, Lowe's is going
to get sued.

On Apr 8, 3:23*pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"I asked the associate what the difference
was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand
added to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It
said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not
cured. Concrete should be sealed".

So, you read the label and it indicated it was OK for your application
and it must have been consistent with what the floor guy told you or
you would not have used it. *Did it have the same melting ingredient
that you bought previously or not? * The whole idea of "what they used
to carry" is very vague. * * It's not unusual to find stores like this
carrying various brands at various times. *Both you and the floor guy
could be right. * It could be the same melting ingredient as stuff he
saw sold at times in the past and different from what you happened to
buy. *Proving any of that is very problematic.

It would seem to me that you are on much firmer ground going after the
manufacturer of the product.

You keep pushing the point. *When I went to the store to complain, I pointed
the associate out to the manager. The associate told the manager exactly
what he said which coincided with what I said.
No matter what you think of the store's associates, they mostly know the
store policies and usually know about the products in their aisles.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You must have very different guys working in the Lowes in your area
than here. In my experience, at any of the big box stores, it's more
common to find them anywhere from clueless to somewhat helpful.
Sometimes you find a really good guy, but it's more the exception.

I guess I'm still waiting to hear what it is that the sales associate
or Lowes did that was wrong. All you say he told you was that the
product in question was the same as "what they used to sell", except
that it has sand added. What exactly did the product contain? What
did the "product they used to sell", which could itself be multiple
things, contain? Can you show that the particular compound is not
suited to the application?


You can sue anyone you want. But it seems most people here don't
think Lowes is at fault.

On Apr 8, 3:27*pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...





On Apr 8, 1:24 pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

....

On Apr 8, 12:14 pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"willshak" wrote in message

...

Sanity wrote the following:
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd
years.
My family is in the construction business so I know a little about
building and maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would
deteriorate
the concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've
purchased
Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a
product called "Ice Melt and Traction". *I asked the associate what
the
difference was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the
same
with sand added to give better traction. I read the label very
carefully.
It said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not
cured. Concrete should be sealed". *Well, my concrete is 5 years
old,
cured and not only is it sealed, I sealed it with product
recommended
by
Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. *I went to the manager at
Lowe's
and he instituted a claim. *The manufacturer denies any
responsibility.
Lowe's sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their
agreement the manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for
awhile so I called Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their
office that Lowe's does not warranty any products they sell and is
not
responsible. All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag
of
ice
melt. I asked if this was their policy on everything they sell and
they
said 'yes'. I will be taking them and the manufacturer to court.
Whether
I win or not is not important at this point. I just want everyone
to
know
that when Lowe's tells you to email , they really
don't.

Was the second person you talked to, the same manager?
If not, the second person probably doesn't know the company policy
on
claims.
Contact the manager again and ask what is going on.
You can't condemn a whole company for one person's remarks.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Spoke to two different managers in two different stores. *Spoke to
Lowe's
insurance company, SRS and they initially told me the manufacturer
was
responsible and that Lowe's had a signed contract stating that.

Isn't that eaxctly what the warranty terms I found at the Lowes site
state?

If the insurance company told you the same thing, why do you think you
have a case against Lowes?

Did you bother to read the paragraph I posted? It's from the contract
manufacturers sign with Lowe's. *They must offer a warranty or guaranty
and
Lowe's will enforce the contract.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Did you bother to read the paragraph I posted?"

Now, what kind of a member of a.h.r would I be if I didn't what you
posted before responding?

In fact, I took what you posted to a Holiday Inn and read it there.
That now makes me an expert on the issue at hand.

It clearly states that the *manufacturer* is responsible.

"Pursuant to this agreement your company is responsible for this
matter."

It also states that the company is responsible to Lowes, not you.

Holiday Inn Bottom Line - *you* can't sue Lowes for anything. Lowes
can sue the manufacturer (should they choose to) but you don't have
any claim against *Lowes*.

If Lowe's is not responsible to the end buyer why would they care if the
manufacturer guarantees their product. The reason? *They know that
ultimately if a product is defective or causes harm, they, Lowe's is going
to get sued.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"If Lowe's is not responsible to the end buyer why would they care
if the manufacturer guarantees their product."

Hmm...let's see...

Maybe it's because it's logistically impossible for them to monitor
the product and/or service quality of every product or service they
sell, which means it would be a pretty dumb business model to take
responsibility for the problems those products and services cause. By
passing the "blame" up the food chain, they protect themselves from
being held responsible.

"They know that ultimately if a product is defective or causes
harm, they, Lowe's is going to get sued."

You're right, I stand corrected. As someone else pointed out, this is
America and you can sue anybody you want. Actually prevailing in the
matter, well, that's a whole different story.

Sanity wrote:
I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years.
My family is in the construction business so I know a little about
building and maintenance.
I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years
without a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate
the concrete.
I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice
Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a
product called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what the
difference was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same
with sand added to give better traction. I read the label very
carefully. It said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year old
or not cured. Concrete should be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5 years
old, cured and not only is it sealed, I sealed it with product
recommended by Lowe's.
As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at Lowe's
and he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any responsibility.
Lowe's sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their
agreement the manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for
awhile so I called Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their
office that Lowe's does not warranty any products they sell and is not
responsible. All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag of
ice melt. I asked if this was their policy on everything they sell and
they said 'yes'. I will be taking them and the manufacturer to court.
Whether I win or not is not important at this point. I just want
everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email ,
they really don't.


The key words are 'do not use on concrete' stop right there and put it back.
Have fun proving your claim.


--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 13:20:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

You're right, I stand corrected. As someone else pointed out, this is
America and you can sue anybody you want. Actually prevailing in the
matter, well, that's a whole different story.

Reminds me a fellow, once, that had a dispute with his water company.
The company turned off his water! He was going to "bring them to
their knees", and somehow made them humble :-/

Maybe he could have put soil in his toilets and grew vegetables?!

Guess who won...

On 08/04/10 10:32 AM, Sanity wrote:


"SMS" wrote in message
...


. A
judge is likely to rule against you if you sue Lowe's because they
will say that you should know not to believe anything an employee of
the store says about any product.

That's one of the most foolish statements I've heard. A sales associate
represents the store. If he lies or misrepresents the store is
responsible for it. Just think. Go in and buy a shovel and the associate
tells you that that shovel will shovel your walk without you even
holding. it. They'd sure sell a lot of shovels but the next morning
there would be a lot of screaming customers out there. A representative
of any company is exactly that, a representative and/or agent.

Suit yourself. I'm just telling you where you'd have the most chance of
getting any restitution. You have a very weak case, but it's possible
that the manufacturer would offer you something just to get rid of you,
but Lowe's is unlikely to settle.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 13:20:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

You're right, I stand corrected. As someone else pointed out, this is
America and you can sue anybody you want. Actually prevailing in the
matter, well, that's a whole different story.

Reminds me a fellow, once, that had a dispute with his water company.
The company turned off his water! He was going to "bring them to
their knees", and somehow made them humble :-/

Maybe he could have put soil in his toilets and grew vegetables?!

Guess who won...

Apples and pears.


Why does Lowe's have the manufacturer sign an agreement to guaranty their
products. Lowe's knows that they are the first in line to get sued and want
to be protected. So if they are sued, they in turn will sue the
manufacturer.
Let me ask you a question. You go into an Italian restaurant and order
spaghetti and sauce. The cook opens a can of commercial sauce and puts it
on the spaghetti. You get food poisoning because the sauce is bad. Who do
you sue? The restaurant or the manufacturer of the sauce. The answer is
you sue the restaurant and he in turn sues the maker of the sauce.

When I see that subject line. I think of Mr. Rogers
Neighborhood and him singing "Everything grows together,
because it's all one piece."

In the Lowe's blows, everything blows together, because it's
all one department store.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 13:20:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

You're right, I stand corrected. As someone else pointed out, this is
America and you can sue anybody you want. Actually prevailing in the
matter, well, that's a whole different story.

Reminds me a fellow, once, that had a dispute with his water company.
The company turned off his water! He was going to "bring them to
their knees", and somehow made them humble :-/

Maybe he could have put soil in his toilets and grew vegetables?!

Guess who won...


LOL...Homer Simpson

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0701277/quotes

That immediately came to mind.

On Apr 8, 5:49*pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"Oren" wrote in message

...

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 13:20:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

You're right, I stand corrected. As someone else pointed out, this is
America and you can sue anybody you want. Actually prevailing in the
matter, well, that's a whole different story.

Reminds me a fellow, once, that had a dispute with his water company.
The company turned off his water! *He was going to "bring them to
their knees", *and somehow made them humble :-/

Maybe he could have put soil in his toilets and grew vegetables?!

Guess who won...

Apples and pears.

Why does Lowe's have the manufacturer sign an agreement to guaranty their
products. *Lowe's knows that they are the first in line to get sued and want
to be protected. So if they are sued, they in turn will sue the
manufacturer.
Let me ask you a question. You go into an Italian restaurant and order
spaghetti and sauce. * The cook opens a can of commercial sauce and puts it
on the spaghetti. *You get food poisoning because the sauce is bad. Who do
you sue? *The restaurant or the manufacturer of the sauce. * The answer is
you sue the restaurant and he in turn sues the maker of the sauce.

Spaghetti and Manicotti

Lowes didn't "cook" the ice melting product. They didn't open the
package or change it in anyway. They are in no way responsible for
what happened to your concrete.

If you sue the restaurant, you might have a chance of winning because
they played a major part in getting you sick, and maybe the restaurant
has chance of winning their suit with the manufacturer, but that's not
the same situation as simply buying an unaltered product from Lowes.

Look, we can argue the merits all day. Do us a favor: Sue 'em and let
us know how it works out.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 5:49 pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"Oren" wrote in message

...

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 13:20:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

You're right, I stand corrected. As someone else pointed out, this is
America and you can sue anybody you want. Actually prevailing in the
matter, well, that's a whole different story.

Reminds me a fellow, once, that had a dispute with his water company.
The company turned off his water! He was going to "bring them to
their knees", and somehow made them humble :-/

Maybe he could have put soil in his toilets and grew vegetables?!

Guess who won...

Apples and pears.

Why does Lowe's have the manufacturer sign an agreement to guaranty their
products. Lowe's knows that they are the first in line to get sued and
want
to be protected. So if they are sued, they in turn will sue the
manufacturer.
Let me ask you a question. You go into an Italian restaurant and order
spaghetti and sauce. The cook opens a can of commercial sauce and puts it
on the spaghetti. You get food poisoning because the sauce is bad. Who do
you sue? The restaurant or the manufacturer of the sauce. The answer is
you sue the restaurant and he in turn sues the maker of the sauce.

Spaghetti and Manicotti

Lowes didn't "cook" the ice melting product. They didn't open the
package or change it in anyway. They are in no way responsible for
what happened to your concrete.

If you sue the restaurant, you might have a chance of winning because
they played a major part in getting you sick, and maybe the restaurant
has chance of winning their suit with the manufacturer, but that's not
the same situation as simply buying an unaltered product from Lowes.

Look, we can argue the merits all day. Do us a favor: Sue 'em and let
us know how it works out.

=====

With all due respect, that is a different scenario. The first suspect would
be the restaurant and you'd have a hard time proving it was the mfg. In the
OP there is no doubt what caused the problem; in the OP's mind at least.

In article ,
"JimT" wrote:


With all due respect, that is a different scenario. The first suspect would
be the restaurant and you'd have a hard time proving it was the mfg. In the
OP there is no doubt what caused the problem; in the OP's mind at least.

And in real life, they most likely would go after the restaurant AND
the maker.

--
I get off on '57 Chevys
I get off on screamin' guitars
--Eric Clapton

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 17:49:52 -0400, "Sanity" wrote:



"Oren" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 13:20:12 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

You're right, I stand corrected. As someone else pointed out, this is
America and you can sue anybody you want. Actually prevailing in the
matter, well, that's a whole different story.

Reminds me a fellow, once, that had a dispute with his water company.
The company turned off his water! He was going to "bring them to
their knees", and somehow made them humble :-/

Maybe he could have put soil in his toilets and grew vegetables?!

Guess who won...

Apples and pears.


Why does Lowe's have the manufacturer sign an agreement to guaranty their
products. Lowe's knows that they are the first in line to get sued and want
to be protected. So if they are sued, they in turn will sue the
manufacturer.
Let me ask you a question. You go into an Italian restaurant and order
spaghetti and sauce. The cook opens a can of commercial sauce and puts it
on the spaghetti. You get food poisoning because the sauce is bad. Who do
you sue? The restaurant or the manufacturer of the sauce. The answer is
you sue the restaurant and he in turn sues the maker of the sauce.

The answer is look closely at the text of the demand letter you
posted. Under contracts. Lowe's has indemnified themselves from
liability. Under that contract the have advised the manufacturer to
contact their insurance carrier, for liability insurance claims.

If my Toyota, had an unintended accelerations: should I sue Toyota or
the local dealer?

For a restaurant... only eat in health department inspected businesses
... lesson learned :-]

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 17:49:52 -0400, "Sanity" wrote:

The answer is look closely at the text of the demand letter you
posted. Under contracts. Lowe's has indemnified themselves from
liability. Under that contract the have advised the manufacturer to
contact their insurance carrier, for liability insurance claims.
Lowe's has indemnified themselves but that usually means if someone
sues them and wins, then they have the contractural right to get
reimbursed by the maker. That agreement is with the Mfr. and has no
impact on whether someone could sue Lowes and win.



If my Toyota, had an unintended accelerations: should I sue Toyota or
the local dealer?

Aggressive lawyer would sue both PLUS whoever made the part(s)
involved.

--
I get off on '57 Chevys
I get off on screamin' guitars
--Eric Clapton