Well, I really don't hate them. I've (registered Civil Engineer) designed a
lot of retaining walls and load bearing walls using CMUs (Concrete Masonry
Units). I hate how they are totally abused and misused.

The following picture is a typical support under my house. 1950s
construction. This crap is throughout the house. BTW, the previous owner,
responsible for all of this, was successful in the lumber business. You
would think that on JUST ONE support under the house he could have come up
with the money for either a 4"x4" post or maybe a 6"x6". Heck, he only
would have needed an 8 or 10 inch length!!

http://picasaweb.google.com/ivanvegv...377 458850562



This kind of crap is throughout this part (north) of Oregon. Most of these
places were improved without the benefit of permits or good advice. My
neighbors are stunned that I actually fill my concrete blocks with concrete.
Using rebar blows their minds.



I cringe when I see this. I cringe when I see somebody working under a car
supported by CMUs.



The only allowed use for loose CMUs should be low (2 rows maximum)
bookshelves in college dorms.



Sorry about the rant. BTW, I've already removed and replaced about 11
occurrences of the above.



Ivan Vegvary

Um... Were you employed as a civil engineer when you bought this house
supported by hope and pixie dust?... Just curious...

Interesting that they not only chose to use CMUs for this, but they
even turned them the wrong way...

On 7/30/2010 6:17 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Well, I really don't hate them. I've (registered Civil Engineer)
designed a lot of retaining walls and load bearing walls using CMUs
(Concrete Masonry Units). I hate how they are totally abused and misused.

The following picture is a typical support under my house. 1950s
construction. This crap is throughout the house. BTW, the previous
owner, responsible for all of this, was successful in the lumber
business. You would think that on JUST ONE support under the house he
could have come up with the money for either a 4"x4" post or maybe a
6"x6". Heck, he only would have needed an 8 or 10 inch length!!

http://picasaweb.google.com/ivanvegv...377 458850562




This kind of crap is throughout this part (north) of Oregon. Most of
these places were improved without the benefit of permits or good
advice. My neighbors are stunned that I actually fill my concrete blocks
with concrete. Using rebar blows their minds.



I cringe when I see this. I cringe when I see somebody working under a
car supported by CMUs.



The only allowed use for loose CMUs should be low (2 rows maximum)
bookshelves in college dorms.



Sorry about the rant. BTW, I've already removed and replaced about 11
occurrences of the above.



Ivan Vegvary


If I ever saw anyone who needed screw jacks, it is you my friend.

TDD

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Well, I really don't hate them. I've (registered Civil Engineer)
designed a lot of retaining walls and load bearing walls using CMUs
(Concrete Masonry Units). I hate how they are totally abused and
misused.
The following picture is a typical support under my house. 1950s
construction. This crap is throughout the house. BTW, the previous
owner, responsible for all of this, was successful in the lumber
business. You would think that on JUST ONE support under the house
he could have come up with the money for either a 4"x4" post or maybe
a 6"x6". Heck, he only would have needed an 8 or 10 inch length!!

http://picasaweb.google.com/ivanvegv...377 458850562

Ouch.

Speaking of shoring up joists, I may be doing a couple in my extra bedroom
for a heavy thing I am building to put in there. Acquiring/making a slab of
concrete to serve as a base isn't too terribly complicated, but how does one
go about dragging a 50+ pound slab over gravel and visqueen through an 18"
crawlspace to it's intended destination? Maybe a skid or something?

Jon

"Larry Fishel" wrote in message
...
Um... Were you employed as a civil engineer when you bought this house
supported by hope and pixie dust?... Just curious...

Interesting that they not only chose to use CMUs for this, but they
even turned them the wrong way...

Nice insulation work too.

On 7/30/2010 10:28 PM Jon Danniken spake thus:

Speaking of shoring up joists, I may be doing a couple in my extra bedroom
for a heavy thing I am building to put in there. Acquiring/making a slab of
concrete to serve as a base isn't too terribly complicated, but how does one
go about dragging a 50+ pound slab over gravel and visqueen through an 18"
crawlspace to it's intended destination? Maybe a skid or something?

Come-along?


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

"Jon Danniken" wrote:

-snip-

Speaking of shoring up joists, I may be doing a couple in my extra bedroom
for a heavy thing I am building to put in there. Acquiring/making a slab of
concrete to serve as a base isn't too terribly complicated, but how does one
go about dragging a 50+ pound slab over gravel and visqueen through an 18"
crawlspace to it's intended destination? Maybe a skid or something?

50 pounds? Why bother? Mine weigh 600 [assuming 150 pounds per
square foot; 2x2 squares a foot thick]. I mixed mine in place-- but
if I needed to put one in a crawl space I'd move it into place while
still in a liquid state.

Jim

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
"Jon Danniken" wrote:

-snip-

Speaking of shoring up joists, I may be doing a couple in my extra
bedroom for a heavy thing I am building to put in there.
Acquiring/making a slab of concrete to serve as a base isn't too
terribly complicated, but how does one go about dragging a 50+ pound
slab over gravel and visqueen through an 18" crawlspace to it's
intended destination? Maybe a skid or something?

50 pounds? Why bother? Mine weigh 600 [assuming 150 pounds per
square foot; 2x2 squares a foot thick]. I mixed mine in place-- but
if I needed to put one in a crawl space I'd move it into place while
still in a liquid state.

I was just guessing at the weight of one block, with a sack of concrete
being 80 or so pounds, and me not needing to support the beam at a major
load bearing location (just reinforcing it a little). I had thought of
mixing it in place, but considering the short area to work in, I discounted
it.

Still, I can see with the size of your blocks how that would pretty much be
about the only way to get it done.

Jon

"Larry Fishel" wrote in message
...
Um... Were you employed as a civil engineer when you bought this house
supported by hope and pixie dust?... Just curious...

Interesting that they not only chose to use CMUs for this, but they
even turned them the wrong way...

The house inspection was difficult because the crawlspace was around 4 to 6
inches in many places. The price was greatly discounted to account for the
problems. I took everything into consideration except my slowly ageing
body.

Ivan Vegvary

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 7/30/2010 6:17 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Well, I really don't hate them. I've (registered Civil Engineer)
designed a lot of retaining walls and load bearing walls using CMUs
(Concrete Masonry Units). I hate how they are totally abused and misused.

The following picture is a typical support under my house. 1950s
construction. This crap is throughout the house. BTW, the previous
owner, responsible for all of this, was successful in the lumber
business. You would think that on JUST ONE support under the house he
could have come up with the money for either a 4"x4" post or maybe a
6"x6". Heck, he only would have needed an 8 or 10 inch length!!

http://picasaweb.google.com/ivanvegv...377 458850562




This kind of crap is throughout this part (north) of Oregon. Most of
these places were improved without the benefit of permits or good
advice. My neighbors are stunned that I actually fill my concrete blocks
with concrete. Using rebar blows their minds.



I cringe when I see this. I cringe when I see somebody working under a
car supported by CMUs.



The only allowed use for loose CMUs should be low (2 rows maximum)
bookshelves in college dorms.



Sorry about the rant. BTW, I've already removed and replaced about 11
occurrences of the above.



Ivan Vegvary


If I ever saw anyone who needed screw jacks, it is you my friend.

TDD

Using two 20 ton hydraulic jacks along with 14 house jacks (jack screws).
Over the years I've been picking up jack screws at garage sales for anywhere
from $ 1 to $ 3 each. The hydraulic jacks are wonderful because of their
power. The down side is that they are very heavy and always bleed back
slightly, so they are not to be used for final positioning.

Ivan Vegvary

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Well, I really don't hate them. I've (registered Civil Engineer)
designed a lot of retaining walls and load bearing walls using CMUs
(Concrete Masonry Units). I hate how they are totally abused and
misused.
The following picture is a typical support under my house. 1950s
construction. This crap is throughout the house. BTW, the previous
owner, responsible for all of this, was successful in the lumber
business. You would think that on JUST ONE support under the house
he could have come up with the money for either a 4"x4" post or maybe
a 6"x6". Heck, he only would have needed an 8 or 10 inch length!!

http://picasaweb.google.com/ivanvegv...377 458850562

Ouch.

Speaking of shoring up joists, I may be doing a couple in my extra bedroom
for a heavy thing I am building to put in there. Acquiring/making a slab
of concrete to serve as a base isn't too terribly complicated, but how
does one go about dragging a 50+ pound slab over gravel and visqueen
through an 18" crawlspace to it's intended destination? Maybe a skid or
something?

Jon


Jon,
The footings that I am pouring (concrete) are 18"x18"x6". This necessitates
a 21"x21" form (outside dimensions). I usually screw the form together once
I am down and under. As far as moving heavy things around, I've discovered
that (short of a conveyor) two 3/4" PVC pipes laid parallel provide
excellent skid characteristics. I've dragged up to 120 pound loads (old
concrete rubble) on these two rails. Very low friction compared with
dragging across the earth.

Ivan Vegvary

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:17:11 -0700, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Well, I really don't hate them. I've (registered Civil Engineer) designed
a
lot of retaining walls and load bearing walls using CMUs (Concrete Masonry
Units). I hate how they are totally abused and misused.

The following picture is a typical support under my house. 1950s
construction. This crap is throughout the house. BTW, the previous
owner,
responsible for all of this, was successful in the lumber business. You
would think that on JUST ONE support under the house he could have come up
with the money for either a 4"x4" post or maybe a 6"x6". Heck, he only
would have needed an 8 or 10 inch length!!

http://picasaweb.google.com/ivanvegv...377 458850562



This kind of crap is throughout this part (north) of Oregon. Most of
these
places were improved without the benefit of permits or good advice. My
neighbors are stunned that I actually fill my concrete blocks with
concrete.
Using rebar blows their minds.



I cringe when I see this. I cringe when I see somebody working under a
car
supported by CMUs.



The only allowed use for loose CMUs should be low (2 rows maximum)
bookshelves in college dorms.



Sorry about the rant. BTW, I've already removed and replaced about 11
occurrences of the above.



Ivan Vegvary


As Larry pointed out, those blocks are oriented the wrong way. CMUs
have little strength when the holes are horizontal.

The idea of grouting the cells and putting rebar in them is code in
Florida but it is uplift protection not download.

Regardless of orientation, you still won't get more than 2-3000 psi strength
out of them. Today most home improvement stores sell only the heavy walled
stuff, but there are still lots of idiots that seem to find blocks made of
pumice, cinder and chimney liner applications pieces and tiles. All have
good uses but not structural.

Ivan Vegvary

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
...

"Larry Fishel" wrote in message
...
Um... Were you employed as a civil engineer when you bought this house
supported by hope and pixie dust?... Just curious...

Interesting that they not only chose to use CMUs for this, but they
even turned them the wrong way...

The house inspection was difficult because the crawlspace was around 4 to
6 inches in many places. The price was greatly discounted to account for
the problems. I took everything into consideration except my slowly
ageing body.

Ivan Vegvary

heh A pig in a poke. The old addage comes to mind: "You get what you....."

Ivan Vegvary wrote:

Jon,
The footings that I am pouring (concrete) are 18"x18"x6". This
necessitates a 21"x21" form (outside dimensions). I usually screw
the form together once I am down and under. As far as moving heavy
things around, I've discovered that (short of a conveyor) two 3/4"
PVC pipes laid parallel provide excellent skid characteristics. I've
dragged up to 120 pound loads (old concrete rubble) on these two
rails. Very low friction compared with dragging across the earth.

Ah, the Egyptian method, that sounds like the perfect soution. Thanks Ivan!

Jon

On 7/31/2010 10:07 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 7/30/2010 6:17 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Well, I really don't hate them. I've (registered Civil Engineer)
designed a lot of retaining walls and load bearing walls using CMUs
(Concrete Masonry Units). I hate how they are totally abused and
misused.

The following picture is a typical support under my house. 1950s
construction. This crap is throughout the house. BTW, the previous
owner, responsible for all of this, was successful in the lumber
business. You would think that on JUST ONE support under the house he
could have come up with the money for either a 4"x4" post or maybe a
6"x6". Heck, he only would have needed an 8 or 10 inch length!!

http://picasaweb.google.com/ivanvegv...377 458850562





This kind of crap is throughout this part (north) of Oregon. Most of
these places were improved without the benefit of permits or good
advice. My neighbors are stunned that I actually fill my concrete blocks
with concrete. Using rebar blows their minds.



I cringe when I see this. I cringe when I see somebody working under a
car supported by CMUs.



The only allowed use for loose CMUs should be low (2 rows maximum)
bookshelves in college dorms.



Sorry about the rant. BTW, I've already removed and replaced about 11
occurrences of the above.



Ivan Vegvary


If I ever saw anyone who needed screw jacks, it is you my friend.

TDD

Using two 20 ton hydraulic jacks along with 14 house jacks (jack
screws). Over the years I've been picking up jack screws at garage sales
for anywhere from $ 1 to $ 3 each. The hydraulic jacks are wonderful
because of their power. The down side is that they are very heavy and
always bleed back slightly, so they are not to be used for final
positioning.

Ivan Vegvary

I see the foundation screw jacks installed permanently all over this
area of Alabamastan. The guys doing foundation repairs seem to be quite
fond of them.

TDD

On Jul 31, 11:56*pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-
wrote:
I see the foundation screw jacks installed permanently all over this
area of Alabamastan. The guys doing foundation repairs seem to be quite
fond of them.

I don't know much about the subject or whether this has anything to do
with their fondness for them, but I can see where that would allow for
periodic adjustment as the grounds shifts over time...

On 8/1/2010 4:36 AM, Larry Fishel wrote:
On Jul 31, 11:56 pm, The Daring Dufasthe-daring-
wrote:
I see the foundation screw jacks installed permanently all over this
area of Alabamastan. The guys doing foundation repairs seem to be quite
fond of them.

I don't know much about the subject or whether this has anything to do
with their fondness for them, but I can see where that would allow for
periodic adjustment as the grounds shifts over time...

That's exactly what I thought, it makes sense. Perhaps I'll
ask some of the guys at the construction supply house the
next time I go by.

TDD