I started what I thought would be medium difficulty project and now on
stumped.
I wanted to install a ceiling fan in the master bedroom. There currently
are no ceiling lights, just a wall switch which controls half of the wall
outlets. I have access to the basement and attic and since there is no
wiring in the basement, I assumed it all ran through the attic. Wrong,
nothing up there either, it all runs through the walls.
I found the header above the wall switch and drilled a one inch hole through
that and see that I'm in the right space after shinning a light down.
How do I proceed?
The wall box has two 14/3 romex coming in and both reds are tied together
with a jumper from that to the switch. Same for the blacks and a jumper.
The two whites are tied together.
Do I tear out the wall box, find the hot red, fish a line down from the
attic and run a new line to the fan? I want to lose the switched outlets
and have both halves of the outlets hot all the time. Then the switch can
control the fan.
Or...I'm assuming one of those 14/3 cables has power on both red and black.
Could I run a 14/3 cable to the fan and have separate light and fan switch
given the setup in that box now? I'm thinking three blacks tied together,
two reds (losing the switched outlets feature) with jumper to both switches.
Any guidance would be appreciated. Summer is here and that attic is getting
hot!

On Jun 14, 11:33*am, "Joe J" wrote:
I started what I thought would be medium difficulty project and now on
stumped.
I wanted to install a ceiling fan in the master bedroom. *There currently
are no ceiling lights, just a wall switch which controls half of the wall
outlets. *I have access to the basement and attic and since there is no
wiring in the basement, I assumed it all ran through the attic. *Wrong,
nothing up there either, it all runs through the walls.
I found the header above the wall switch and drilled a one inch hole through
that and see that I'm in the right space after shinning a light down.
How do I proceed?
The wall box has two 14/3 romex coming in and both reds are tied together
with a jumper from that to the switch. *Same for the blacks and a jumper.

On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 11:33:58 -0500, Joe J wrote:
I started what I thought would be medium difficulty project and now on
stumped.
I wanted to install a ceiling fan in the master bedroom. There currently
are no ceiling lights, just a wall switch which controls half of the wall
outlets. I have access to the basement and attic and since there is no
wiring in the basement, I assumed it all ran through the attic. Wrong,
nothing up there either, it all runs through the walls.
I found the header above the wall switch and drilled a one inch hole through
that and see that I'm in the right space after shinning a light down.
How do I proceed?
The wall box has two 14/3 romex coming in and both reds are tied together
with a jumper from that to the switch. Same for the blacks and a jumper.
The two whites are tied together.
Do I tear out the wall box, find the hot red, fish a line down from the
attic and run a new line to the fan? I want to lose the switched outlets
and have both halves of the outlets hot all the time. Then the switch can
control the fan.
Or...I'm assuming one of those 14/3 cables has power on both red and black.
Could I run a 14/3 cable to the fan and have separate light and fan switch
given the setup in that box now? I'm thinking three blacks tied together,
two reds (losing the switched outlets feature) with jumper to both switches.
Any guidance would be appreciated. Summer is here and that attic is getting
hot!


Hire a competant electrician; they know how to snake wires.
If your time is worth more than about a dollar an hour, you'll save money.

On Jun 14, 1:03 pm, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 11:33:58 -0500, Joe J wrote:
I started what I thought would be medium difficulty project and now on
stumped.
I wanted to install a ceiling fan in the master bedroom. There currently
are no ceiling lights, just a wall switch which controls half of the wall
outlets. I have access to the basement and attic and since there is no
wiring in the basement, I assumed it all ran through the attic. Wrong,
nothing up there either, it all runs through the walls.
I found the header above the wall switch and drilled a one inch hole through
that and see that I'm in the right space after shinning a light down.
How do I proceed?
The wall box has two 14/3 romex coming in and both reds are tied together
with a jumper from that to the switch. Same for the blacks and a jumper.
The two whites are tied together.
Do I tear out the wall box, find the hot red, fish a line down from the
attic and run a new line to the fan? I want to lose the switched outlets
and have both halves of the outlets hot all the time. Then the switch can
control the fan.
Or...I'm assuming one of those 14/3 cables has power on both red and black.
Could I run a 14/3 cable to the fan and have separate light and fan switch
given the setup in that box now? I'm thinking three blacks tied together,
two reds (losing the switched outlets feature) with jumper to both switches.
Any guidance would be appreciated. Summer is here and that attic is getting
hot!

Hire a competant electrician; they know how to snake wires.
If your time is worth more than about a dollar an hour, you'll save money.

Is this a regular switch or 3way? Assuming it's a regular switch,
best guess would be that the blacks are the hot wire and the reds are
the switched side. All you need to do is identify the hot. Then you
need to permanently connect the black to red, eliminating the
switch. Then you replace the switch with a fan control switch,
connecting the switch to hot, wire from it to fan, and neutral to the
fan tied to the other neutrals. The hardest part will be snaking
between the switch box and the hole in the top plate. You should be
able to do that by punching out a hole in the top of the box. You
definitely don't want to tear the box out, unless it's an old work box
that you can see will come out. Regular boxes are nailed to the
stud.

Another option that may be easier and better is to use a wireless
remote to control the fan. They also have holders so you can have a
resting place for it next to the switch. But you could also use it
next to the bed to adjust the fan without getting up. If you go that
route, all you need is to find a circuit in the attic that you can tap
on to. The fan gets powered up permanently.

On Jun 14, 12:33*pm, "Joe J" wrote:
I started what I thought would be medium difficulty project and now on
stumped.
I wanted to install a ceiling fan in the master bedroom. *There currently
are no ceiling lights, just a wall switch which controls half of the wall
outlets. *I have access to the basement and attic and since there is no
wiring in the basement, I assumed it all ran through the attic. *Wrong,
nothing up there either, it all runs through the walls.
I found the header above the wall switch and drilled a one inch hole through
that and see that I'm in the right space after shinning a light down.
How do I proceed?
The wall box has two 14/3 romex coming in and both reds are tied together
with a jumper from that to the switch. *Same for the blacks and a jumper.

"Joe J" wrote in message
...
I started what I thought would be medium difficulty project and now on
stumped.
I wanted to install a ceiling fan in the master bedroom. There currently
are no ceiling lights, just a wall switch which controls half of the wall
outlets. I have access to the basement and attic and since there is no
wiring in the basement, I assumed it all ran through the attic. Wrong,
nothing up there either, it all runs through the walls.
I found the header above the wall switch and drilled a one inch hole
through that and see that I'm in the right space after shinning a light
down.
How do I proceed?
The wall box has two 14/3 romex coming in and both reds are tied together
with a jumper from that to the switch. Same for the blacks and a jumper.
The two whites are tied together.
Do I tear out the wall box, find the hot red, fish a line down from the
attic and run a new line to the fan? I want to lose the switched outlets
and have both halves of the outlets hot all the time. Then the switch can
control the fan.
Or...I'm assuming one of those 14/3 cables has power on both red and
black. Could I run a 14/3 cable to the fan and have separate light and fan
switch given the setup in that box now? I'm thinking three blacks tied
together, two reds (losing the switched outlets feature) with jumper to
both switches.
Any guidance would be appreciated. Summer is here and that attic is
getting hot!

Given what you have, and what you want, all you have to do is take all the
wires attached to the current switch, both red and black, and splice them
together. Now your wall outlets are live on top and bottom. Now run a 2
wire cable from that switch box to the ceiling fan box, and connect the
white to the white wires in the switch box, the black to your fan control,
and a pigtail from the big splice you just made, to feed the control.

wrote in message
...
On Jun 14, 1:03 pm, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 11:33:58 -0500, Joe J wrote:
I started what I thought would be medium difficulty project and now on
stumped.
I wanted to install a ceiling fan in the master bedroom. There
currently
are no ceiling lights, just a wall switch which controls half of the
wall
outlets. I have access to the basement and attic and since there is no
wiring in the basement, I assumed it all ran through the attic. Wrong,
nothing up there either, it all runs through the walls.
I found the header above the wall switch and drilled a one inch hole
through
that and see that I'm in the right space after shinning a light down.
How do I proceed?
The wall box has two 14/3 romex coming in and both reds are tied
together
with a jumper from that to the switch. Same for the blacks and a
jumper.
The two whites are tied together.
Do I tear out the wall box, find the hot red, fish a line down from the
attic and run a new line to the fan? I want to lose the switched
outlets
and have both halves of the outlets hot all the time. Then the switch
can
control the fan.
Or...I'm assuming one of those 14/3 cables has power on both red and
black.
Could I run a 14/3 cable to the fan and have separate light and fan
switch
given the setup in that box now? I'm thinking three blacks tied
together,
two reds (losing the switched outlets feature) with jumper to both
switches.
Any guidance would be appreciated. Summer is here and that attic is
getting
hot!

Hire a competant electrician; they know how to snake wires.
If your time is worth more than about a dollar an hour, you'll save
money.

Is this a regular switch or 3way? Assuming it's a regular switch,
best guess would be that the blacks are the hot wire and the reds are
the switched side. All you need to do is identify the hot. Then you
need to permanently connect the black to red, eliminating the
switch. Then you replace the switch with a fan control switch,
connecting the switch to hot, wire from it to fan, and neutral to the
fan tied to the other neutrals. The hardest part will be snaking
between the switch box and the hole in the top plate. You should be
able to do that by punching out a hole in the top of the box. You
definitely don't want to tear the box out, unless it's an old work box
that you can see will come out. Regular boxes are nailed to the
stud.

Another option that may be easier and better is to use a wireless
remote to control the fan. They also have holders so you can have a
resting place for it next to the switch. But you could also use it
next to the bed to adjust the fan without getting up. If you go that
route, all you need is to find a circuit in the attic that you can tap
on to. The fan gets powered up permanently.

It's a single pole switch. Also, there are no power runs in the attic or
basement, that's part of my problem.

On Jun 14, 2:10*pm, Evan wrote:
On Jun 14, 1:27*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Jun 14, 12:33*pm, "Joe J" wrote:

I started what I thought would be medium difficulty project and now on
stumped.
I wanted to install a ceiling fan in the master bedroom. *There currently
are no ceiling lights, just a wall switch which controls half of the wall
outlets. *I have access to the basement and attic and since there is no
wiring in the basement, I assumed it all ran through the attic. *Wrong,
nothing up there either, it all runs through the walls.
I found the header above the wall switch and drilled a one inch hole through
that and see that I'm in the right space after shinning a light down.
How do I proceed?
The wall box has two 14/3 romex coming in and both reds are tied together
with a jumper from that to the switch. *Same for the blacks and a jumper.
The two whites are tied together.
Do I tear out the wall box, find the hot red, fish a line down from the
attic and run a new line to the fan? *I want to lose the switched outlets
and have both halves of the outlets hot all the time. *Then the switch can
control the fan.
Or...I'm assuming one of those 14/3 cables has power on both red and black.
Could I run a 14/3 cable to the fan and have separate light and fan switch
given the setup in that box now? *I'm thinking three blacks tied together,
two reds (losing the switched outlets feature) with jumper to both switches.
Any guidance would be appreciated. *Summer is here and that attic is getting
hot!

You could tear out that box and replace it with an old work box. *I'd
conside a double box as that would give you a bit more room to work
since you need to couple the hot to the outlets in there as well. *You
are allowed to run a 14/3 from the box to a ceiling box for the fan.
Black to the light and red to the fan is typical. *Then you can put a
switch for the light and another for the fan in your new box. *You can
get fan speed controls in place of the switch if you would like.

I remove old boxes by disconnecting all the wires and removeing all
the switches/outlets what ever. *Then use a screwdriver to pry the box
away from the stud a little. * Thes will let you slip a bare hacksaw
blade between the box and the stud. *They make handles that will hold
it or you can just wrap a rag around it. *Saw through the nails
holding the box to the stud. *Once it's free you can work it out of
the hole. *Then enlarge your hole if you're going for the double box.
Fish the new piece of 14/3 down from the attic. *Getting all the wires
into the old work box while getting it in the hole in the wall is a
chore but it can be done.

Another option would be to leave the switch for the outlets, go to a
double box but get one of those combined light/fan controls that fits
in the space of a single switch. *That might be more appealing to the
next owner as well.

The OP shouldn't need to tear out the existing box and replace it...

That would only be necessary to do if the existing box is not large
enough to contain all the conductors necessary to run the circuits...

The OP would have 3 white wires, 3 black wires, 3 red wires,
3 grounding conductors and 2 or 3 pigtails to feed the switches...

The OP could then obtain a combination switch device made
by Leviton in the Decora product line which could have either
two or three single pole switches on one device strap which
fits in a single gang box...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's almost impossible to run a new wire down from a hole in the top
of the wall in the attic and get it inside an existing box. It's much
easier to remove the box, then run the 14/3 down form the attic. It
will be easy to grab with the hole in the wall where the box goes.
Especially if he opts for a double box old work replacement.

On Jun 14, 8:39*pm, "Joe J" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Jun 14, 1:03 pm, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 11:33:58 -0500, Joe J wrote:
I started what I thought would be medium difficulty project and now on
stumped.
I wanted to install a ceiling fan in the master bedroom. *There
currently
are no ceiling lights, just a wall switch which controls half of the
wall
outlets. *I have access to the basement and attic and since there is no
wiring in the basement, I assumed it all ran through the attic. *Wrong,
nothing up there either, it all runs through the walls.
I found the header above the wall switch and drilled a one inch hole
through
that and see that I'm in the right space after shinning a light down.
How do I proceed?
The wall box has two 14/3 romex coming in and both reds are tied
together
with a jumper from that to the switch. *Same for the blacks and a
jumper.
The two whites are tied together.
Do I tear out the wall box, find the hot red, fish a line down from the
attic and run a new line to the fan? *I want to lose the switched
outlets
and have both halves of the outlets hot all the time. *Then the switch
can
control the fan.
Or...I'm assuming one of those 14/3 cables has power on both red and
black.
Could I run a 14/3 cable to the fan and have separate light and fan
switch
given the setup in that box now? *I'm thinking three blacks tied
together,
two reds (losing the switched outlets feature) with jumper to both
switches.
Any guidance would be appreciated. *Summer is here and that attic is
getting
hot!

Hire a competant electrician; *they know how to snake wires.
If your time is worth more than about a dollar an hour, you'll save
money.

Is this a regular switch or 3way? * Assuming it's a regular switch,
best guess would be that the blacks are the hot wire and the reds are
the switched side. * All you need to do is identify the hot. *Then you
need to permanently connect the black to red, eliminating the
switch. * Then you replace the switch with a fan control switch,
connecting the switch to hot, wire from it to fan, and neutral to the
fan tied to the other neutrals. * The hardest part will be snaking
between the switch box and the hole in the top plate. * You should be
able to do that by punching out a hole in the top of the box. *You
definitely don't want to tear the box out, unless it's an old work box
that you can see will come out. * Regular boxes are nailed to the
stud.

Another option that may be easier and better is to use a wireless
remote to control the fan. * They also have holders so you can have a
resting place for it next to the switch. * But you could also use it
next to the bed to adjust the fan without getting up. * If you go that
route, all you need is to find a circuit in the attic that you can tap
on to. * The fan gets powered up permanently.

It's a single pole switch. *Also, there are no power runs in the attic or
basement, that's part of my problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You should have power in the box with the switch already. You can add
the fan/light to that circuit.

It's a single pole switch. Also, there are no power runs in the attic or
basement, that's part of my problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You should have power in the box with the switch already. You can add
the fan/light to that circuit.

That was a reply to the person who said I should just tap into an existing
attic feed.

On Jun 15, 9:17*am, "Joe J" wrote:
It's a single pole switch. *Also, there are no power runs in the attic or
basement, that's part of my problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You should have power in the box with the switch already. *You can add
the fan/light to that circuit.

That was a reply to the person who said I should just tap into an existing
attic feed.

You're going to get varying opinions about a solution. You'll need to
decide which one works best for you.

Solution 1. Personally I'm not big on ceiling fan/light remote
controls. It's just one more thing to break or get lost. All my
installations have a switch for the light and a 3-speed switch for the
fan both installed in a wall box. To do that you will need to remove
your old box, drop a 14/3 line down to the hole in the wall, install
an old work box, and rewire it. You have power at the existing
location so you can do this. Switching to a double box will give you
more room to work since you already have a number of wires in the box
that have to stay.

Solution 2. Another poster said just find power in the attic
somewhere and run it straight to the fan/light and use a remote for on/
off for both. You can do this as well. You need to make sure that
the wire you find in the attic is not on some other switch. Trouble
with that is that it is hard to tell. You can push the leads of a vom
through the insulation and test. Some people don't like doing that
as it leaves small holes. It's not really a problem. Once you find a
line that always has power then make sure you can get some slack in
it. You will need some slack to cut it and splice in your new line.
That can be a pain as welll as many electricians don't leave much
slack. You will need to mount a box on a ceiling joist or roof frame
to do the splice in. Run a new piece of 14/2 from that location to
your fan ceiling box.

As I said I'm partial to the first solution.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Jun 15, 9:17 am, "Joe J" wrote:
It's a single pole switch. Also, there are no power runs in the attic
or
basement, that's part of my problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You should have power in the box with the switch already. You can add
the fan/light to that circuit.

That was a reply to the person who said I should just tap into an
existing
attic feed.

You're going to get varying opinions about a solution. You'll need to
decide which one works best for you.

Solution 1. Personally I'm not big on ceiling fan/light remote
controls. It's just one more thing to break or get lost. All my
installations have a switch for the light and a 3-speed switch for the
fan both installed in a wall box. To do that you will need to remove
your old box, drop a 14/3 line down to the hole in the wall, install
an old work box, and rewire it. You have power at the existing
location so you can do this. Switching to a double box will give you
more room to work since you already have a number of wires in the box
that have to stay.

Solution 2. Another poster said just find power in the attic
somewhere and run it straight to the fan/light and use a remote for on/
off for both. You can do this as well. You need to make sure that
the wire you find in the attic is not on some other switch. Trouble
with that is that it is hard to tell. You can push the leads of a vom
through the insulation and test. Some people don't like doing that
as it leaves small holes. It's not really a problem. Once you find a
line that always has power then make sure you can get some slack in
it. You will need some slack to cut it and splice in your new line.
That can be a pain as welll as many electricians don't leave much
slack. You will need to mount a box on a ceiling joist or roof frame
to do the splice in. Run a new piece of 14/2 from that location to
your fan ceiling box.

As I said I'm partial to the first solution.

The first choice is what I'm leaning towards. The only two feeds I can find
in the attic are for the only two ceiling fixtures in the entire house.
Kitchen and dinette area and both are switched.
Anywho...my plan is to replace the single with a double box and then fish
the 14/3 in. I think it would be almost impossible to try and fish one into
the existing single box w/o removing it, so I might just as well put in the
double and give myself a little room to work. Too hot this week, a little
cool down expected on the weekend. Running out of time.
Thanks,
Joe

On Jun 15, 11:08*am, "Joe J" wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...





On Jun 15, 9:17 am, "Joe J" wrote:
It's a single pole switch. *Also, there are no power runs in the attic
or
basement, that's part of my problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You should have power in the box with the switch already. *You can add
the fan/light to that circuit.

That was a reply to the person who said I should just tap into an
existing
attic feed.

You're going to get varying opinions about a solution. *You'll need to
decide which one works best for you.

Solution 1. *Personally I'm not big on ceiling fan/light remote
controls. *It's just one more thing to break or get lost. *All my
installations have a switch for the light and a 3-speed switch for the
fan both installed in a wall box. *To do that you will need to remove
your old box, drop a 14/3 line down to the hole in the wall, install
an old work box, and rewire it. *You have power at the existing
location so you can do this. *Switching to a double box will give you
more room to work since you already have a number of wires in the box
that have to stay.

Solution 2. *Another poster said just find power in the attic
somewhere and run it straight to the fan/light and use a remote for on/
off for both. *You can do this as well. *You need to make sure that
the wire you find in the attic is not on some other switch. *Trouble
with that is that it is hard to tell. *You can push the leads of a vom
through the insulation and test. *Some people don't like doing *that
as it leaves small holes. *It's not really a problem. *Once you find a
line that always has power then make sure you can get some slack in
it. *You will need some slack to cut it and splice in your new line.
That can be a pain as welll as many electricians don't leave much
slack. *You will need to mount a box on a ceiling joist or roof frame
to do the splice in. *Run a new piece of 14/2 from that location to
your fan ceiling box.

As I said I'm partial to the first solution.

The first choice is what I'm leaning towards. *The only two feeds I can find
in the attic are for the only two ceiling fixtures in the entire house.
Kitchen and dinette area and both are switched.
Anywho...my plan is to replace the single with a double box and then fish
the 14/3 in. *I think it would be almost impossible to try and fish one into
the existing single box w/o removing it, so I might just as well put in the
double and give myself a little room to work. *Too hot this week, a little
cool down expected on the weekend. *Running out of time.
Thanks,
Joe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Get the double old work box first so you knwo how big to make the
hole. Remove the old box, enlarge the hole for the new double old
work box, fish the 14/3 in that order :-)

Sometimes the original hole is a little too tall. Position the new
old work box so the swing tab on that side is at the edge of the wall
board.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:17:46 -0500, Joe J wrote:


It's a single pole switch. Also, there are no power runs in the attic or
basement, that's part of my problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You should have power in the box with the switch already. You can add
the fan/light to that circuit.

That was a reply to the person who said I should just tap into an existing
attic feed.

who replied to a person who was telling you to hire an electrician, assuming
your time is worth more than a dollar an hour.

Assuming your time is worth more than a dollar an hour you're already ****ed
away the price of an electrician with the time spent discussing the task on
usenet.

On Jun 15, 12:17*pm, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:17:46 -0500, Joe J wrote:

It's a single pole switch. *Also, there are no power runs in the attic or
basement, that's part of my problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You should have power in the box with the switch already. *You can add
the fan/light to that circuit.
That was a reply to the person who said I should just tap into an existing
attic feed.

who replied to a person who was telling you to hire an electrician, assuming
your time is worth more than a dollar an hour.

Assuming your time is worth more than a dollar an hour you're already ****ed
away the price of an electrician with the time spent discussing the task on
usenet.

The general tone of this group is mostly diy. It's a real pain in the
butt to find a real electrician to do a job this small. Most won't
bother. You'll end up with a a handyman which in many states is not
even legal because you are supposed to be a licensed tradesman to work
on electrical, gas, hvac, etc if the structure is not yours. Plus if
he does it himself he will have learned something along he way as well
as gained the satisfaction of doing it himself.

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:17:46 -0500, Joe J wrote:


It's a single pole switch. Also, there are no power runs in the attic
or
basement, that's part of my problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You should have power in the box with the switch already. You can add
the fan/light to that circuit.

That was a reply to the person who said I should just tap into an existing
attic feed.

who replied to a person who was telling you to hire an electrician,
assuming
your time is worth more than a dollar an hour.

Assuming your time is worth more than a dollar an hour you're already
****ed
away the price of an electrician with the time spent discussing the task
on
usenet.

I'm retired, I've got all the time in the world. Just cuts into my golf
game.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:58:47 -0500, Joe J wrote:

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:17:46 -0500, Joe J wrote:


It's a single pole switch. Also, there are no power runs in the attic
or
basement, that's part of my problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You should have power in the box with the switch already. You can add
the fan/light to that circuit.

That was a reply to the person who said I should just tap into an existing
attic feed.

who replied to a person who was telling you to hire an electrician,
assuming
your time is worth more than a dollar an hour.

Assuming your time is worth more than a dollar an hour you're already
****ed
away the price of an electrician with the time spent discussing the task
on
usenet.

I'm retired, I've got all the time in the world. Just cuts into my golf
game.

Just smash out the drywall around the lightswitch. Put the wiring
into that box. Research next on drywall repair. :-)