As mentioned in another thread, I'm in the process of putting down 3/4
T&G in a few interconnected rooms/hall. I'm not in the kitchen yet but I
knew up front the dishwasher clearance may be a strong possible issue.
The combination of the kitchen had new vinyl many years ago where
underlayment was used, as it should have, and now adding 3/4" more. The
old underlayment does not go under the DW. Stops at the kickplate.

I did some quick visual after removing the kickplate and, as suspected,
it looks grim. Very little clearance between the stone counter and top of
DW. The DW foot rails don't look like they will make it once the hardwood
is in unless it can be tilted up some once everything is loose. Plan is
to put down a scrap strip of flooring, loosen up the DW and see what
happens.

To stir up the pot some more, the 3/4 will be laid on ends to the
kickplate.

If this does indeed turn out to be an issue, I'm looking for ideas on
what has been done in similar situations. The only thing I can figure is
to have a small depth section the width of the DW that can be removed
with some unorthodox improvising of removing the bottom of the grooves on
the left and right of the section. The section could be carefully screwed
from the basement fortunately...I think that's fortunate anyway.

I have no other experience with this type of problem so the only other
thing I can come up with is some type of inlay that is lower than 3/4.

Just looking ahead so I know what my options are if necessary.

Thanks,
Red...

On May 17, 8:35*pm, Red Green wrote:
As mentioned in another thread, I'm in the process of putting down 3/4
T&G in a few interconnected rooms/hall. I'm not in the kitchen yet but I
knew up front the dishwasher clearance may be a strong possible issue.
The combination of the kitchen had new vinyl many years ago where
underlayment was used, as it should have, and now adding 3/4" more. The
old underlayment does not go under the DW. Stops at the kickplate.

I did some quick visual after removing the kickplate and, as suspected,
it looks grim. Very little clearance between the stone counter and top of
DW. The DW foot rails don't look like they will make it once the hardwood
is in unless it can be tilted up some once everything is loose. Plan is
to put down a scrap strip of flooring, loosen up the DW and see what
happens.

To stir up the pot some more, the 3/4 will be laid on ends to the
kickplate.

If this does indeed turn out to be an issue, I'm looking for ideas on
what has been done in similar situations. The only thing I can figure is
to have a small depth section the width of the DW that can be removed
with some unorthodox improvising of removing the bottom of the grooves on
the left and right of the section. The section could be carefully screwed
from the basement fortunately...I think that's fortunate anyway.

I have no other experience with this type of problem so the only other
thing I can come up with is some type of inlay that is lower than 3/4.

Just looking ahead so I know what my options are if necessary.

Thanks,
Red...

Use a piece of plywood from the back wall right up to the inside edge
of the kickplate. The plywood should be as thick as it is possible
and still allow the dishwasher to not raise up the countertop. But
why worry, as long as the flooring extends to the inside edge of the
kickplate, no one will see what is behind the kickplate. Your
description of how the flooring will be laid is confusing, are you
saying the flooring is parallel to the countertop, or is it at right
angles to the countertop?

"hr(bob) " wrote in
:

On May 17, 8:35*pm, Red Green wrote:
As mentioned in another thread, I'm in the process of putting down
3/4 T&G in a few interconnected rooms/hall. I'm not in the kitchen
yet but I knew up front the dishwasher clearance may be a strong
possible issue. The combination of the kitchen had new vinyl many
years ago where underlayment was used, as it should have, and now
adding 3/4" more. The old underlayment does not go under the DW.
Stops at the kickplate.

I did some quick visual after removing the kickplate and, as
suspected, it looks grim. Very little clearance between the stone
counter and top of DW. The DW foot rails don't look like they will
make it once the hardwood is in unless it can be tilted up some once
everything is loose. Plan is to put down a scrap strip of flooring,
loosen up the DW and see what happens.

To stir up the pot some more, the 3/4 will be laid on ends to the
kickplate.

If this does indeed turn out to be an issue, I'm looking for ideas on
what has been done in similar situations. The only thing I can figure
is to have a small depth section the width of the DW that can be
removed with some unorthodox improvising of removing the bottom of
the grooves on the left and right of the section. The section could
be carefully screwed from the basement fortunately...I think that's
fortunate anyway.

I have no other experience with this type of problem so the only
other thing I can come up with is some type of inlay that is lower
than 3/4.

Just looking ahead so I know what my options are if necessary.

Thanks,
Red...

Use a piece of plywood from the back wall right up to the inside edge
of the kickplate. The plywood should be as thick as it is possible
and still allow the dishwasher to not raise up the countertop. But
why worry, as long as the flooring extends to the inside edge of the
kickplate, no one will see what is behind the kickplate. Your
description of how the flooring will be laid is confusing, are you
saying the flooring is parallel to the countertop, or is it at right
angles to the countertop?

Thanks for the reply.

Your
description of how the flooring will be laid is confusing,

I'm usually good for that.

The concern is not being able to get the DW out once the flooring is
laid. So, have to figure out a way before it gets locked in. Not even
positive it's a problem yet. Will know shortly as I will be moving into
the kitchen area shortly.

What I meant is the board ends will meet the kickplate - Boards
perpendicular to counter.

Red Green wrote:
As mentioned in another thread, I'm in the process of putting down 3/4
T&G in a few interconnected rooms/hall. I'm not in the kitchen yet but I
knew up front the dishwasher clearance may be a strong possible issue.
The combination of the kitchen had new vinyl many years ago where
underlayment was used, as it should have, and now adding 3/4" more. The
old underlayment does not go under the DW. Stops at the kickplate.

I did some quick visual after removing the kickplate and, as suspected,
it looks grim. Very little clearance between the stone counter and top of
DW. The DW foot rails don't look like they will make it once the hardwood
is in unless it can be tilted up some once everything is loose. Plan is
to put down a scrap strip of flooring, loosen up the DW and see what
happens.

To stir up the pot some more, the 3/4 will be laid on ends to the
kickplate.

If this does indeed turn out to be an issue, I'm looking for ideas on
what has been done in similar situations. The only thing I can figure is
to have a small depth section the width of the DW that can be removed
with some unorthodox improvising of removing the bottom of the grooves on
the left and right of the section. The section could be carefully screwed
from the basement fortunately...I think that's fortunate anyway.

I have no other experience with this type of problem so the only other
thing I can come up with is some type of inlay that is lower than 3/4.

Just looking ahead so I know what my options are if necessary.

Thanks,
Red...

If you do go with hardwood in kitchen (bad idea IMHO), bite the bullet
and strip the floor down to plywood subfloor. If you understandably
don't want to pull the base cabinets, buy or rent an appropriate saw to
flush-cut the (probably particle board) underlayment and vinyl over it.

I've seen kitchens where DW got trapped, and they had to do some real
hacks and butchery for work-arounds. IMHO, finish floor should fill DW
alcove, and the wall and cabinet base edges should be caulked, to direct
any leaks out into the room where you see them quickly. Even in there is
enough room to adjust DW legs and get it out, you don't want it sitting
in a wading pool.

--
aem sends...

On May 18, 8:45*pm, Red Green wrote:
"hr(bob) " wrote :



On May 17, 8:35*pm, Red Green wrote:
As mentioned in another thread, I'm in the process of putting down
3/4 T&G in a few interconnected rooms/hall. I'm not in the kitchen
yet but I knew up front the dishwasher clearance may be a strong
possible issue. The combination of the kitchen had new vinyl many
years ago where underlayment was used, as it should have, and now
adding 3/4" more. The old underlayment does not go under the DW.
Stops at the kickplate.

I did some quick visual after removing the kickplate and, as
suspected, it looks grim. Very little clearance between the stone
counter and top of DW. The DW foot rails don't look like they will
make it once the hardwood is in unless it can be tilted up some once
everything is loose. Plan is to put down a scrap strip of flooring,
loosen up the DW and see what happens.

To stir up the pot some more, the 3/4 will be laid on ends to the
kickplate.

If this does indeed turn out to be an issue, I'm looking for ideas on
what has been done in similar situations. The only thing I can figure
is to have a small depth section the width of the DW that can be
removed with some unorthodox improvising of removing the bottom of
the grooves on the left and right of the section. The section could
be carefully screwed from the basement fortunately...I think that's
fortunate anyway.

I have no other experience with this type of problem so the only
other thing I can come up with is some type of inlay that is lower
than 3/4.

Just looking ahead so I know what my options are if necessary.

Thanks,
Red...

Use a piece of plywood from the back wall right up to the inside edge
of the kickplate. *The plywood should be as thick as it is possible
and still allow the dishwasher to not raise up the countertop. *But
why worry, as long as the flooring extends to the inside edge *of the
kickplate, no one will see what is behind the kickplate. Your
description of how the flooring will be laid is confusing, are *you
saying the flooring is parallel to the countertop, or is it at right
angles to the countertop?

Thanks for the reply.

Your
description of how the flooring will be laid is confusing,

I'm usually good for that.

The concern is not being able to get the DW out once the flooring is
laid. So, have to figure out a way before it gets locked in. Not even
positive it's a problem yet. Will know shortly as I will be moving into
the kitchen area shortly.

What I meant is the board ends will meet the kickplate - Boards
perpendicular to counter.

How much would it cost to run the floor under the DW? You could even
use pieces of flooring that you don't want in the middle of the floor
(opposite direction, if necessary). Using the same flooring under the
DW will get it to the same height as the main floor so it can't be
trapped.

On May 17, 11:35*pm, Red Green wrote:

Had/have similar problem; however when replacing our DW found that end
(over the DW) of one of the two fairly cheap 8 foot counter tops in
our kitchen was not that firmly fixed down. And it was possible with
assistance to pry up the counter top slightly and wangle the DW in
under it. This would not work with very heavy counter tops and/or one
might crack it????
Our alternative; if/when we redo our kitchen floor will probably be to
disassembled both of the lower counter cabinets and raise them
slightly; that may involve extending the plumbing slightly. Higher by
3/4 inch sounds like a lot! Having installed the cabinets myself some
40 years ago it should be possible.
Good luck.

On May 18, 10:16*pm, aemeijers wrote:
Red Green wrote:
As mentioned in another thread, I'm in the process of putting down 3/4
T&G in a few interconnected rooms/hall. I'm not in the kitchen yet but I
knew up front the dishwasher clearance may be a strong possible issue.
The combination of the kitchen had new vinyl many years ago where
underlayment was used, as it should have, and now adding 3/4" more. The
old underlayment does not go under the DW. Stops at the kickplate.

I did some quick visual after removing the kickplate and, as suspected,
it looks grim. Very little clearance between the stone counter and top of
DW. The DW foot rails don't look like they will make it once the hardwood
is in unless it can be tilted up some once everything is loose. Plan is
to put down a scrap strip of flooring, loosen up the DW and see what
happens.

To stir up the pot some more, the 3/4 will be laid on ends to the
kickplate.

If this does indeed turn out to be an issue, I'm looking for ideas on
what has been done in similar situations. The only thing I can figure is
to have a small depth section the width of the DW that can be removed
with some unorthodox improvising of removing the bottom of the grooves on
the left and right of the section. The section could be carefully screwed
from the basement fortunately...I think that's fortunate anyway.

I have no other experience with this type of problem so the only other
thing I can come up with is some type of inlay that is lower than 3/4.

Just looking ahead so I know what my options are if necessary.

Thanks,
Red...

If you do go with hardwood in kitchen (bad idea IMHO), bite the bullet
and strip the floor down to plywood subfloor. If you understandably
don't want to pull the base cabinets, buy or rent an appropriate saw to
flush-cut the (probably particle board) underlayment and vinyl over it.

I've seen kitchens where DW got trapped, and they had to do some real
hacks and butchery for work-arounds. IMHO, finish floor should fill DW
alcove, and the wall and cabinet base edges should be caulked, to direct
any leaks out into the room where you see them quickly. Even in there is
enough room to adjust DW legs and get it out, you don't want it sitting
in a wading pool.

--
aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is considerable wiggle room up on most dw's but the only way to
know for sure is to try it. Take a scrap of your floor and nail it in
front of the dw. See if you can get it out.

Personally I'd never put t/g wood in a kitchen. I live in a slightly
upscale neighborhood (not starter homes but not luxury either) that we
moved into when it was built. About half of them have t/g in the
kitchen. Over the 18 years we've been here at least 1/2 of those have
had to rip up sections or all of the hardwood in the kitchen because
of water damage. And by placed the ends at your dw the number of
damaged boards goes up a great deal. In most cases the problem
started with a small leak that was not detected immdiately. Because
small leaks almost never are. T/g warps up in less that a day when
exposed to water under it. The warp is permanent. Most of the houses
with t/g in the kitchen also showed significant wear along the traffic
patterns inside of 10 years. Kitchens have very consistent traffic
patterns. While it is a hard flooring, we tiled all our baths and the
kitchen.

On May 19, 8:59*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On May 18, 10:16*pm, aemeijers wrote:





Red Green wrote:
As mentioned in another thread, I'm in the process of putting down 3/4
T&G in a few interconnected rooms/hall. I'm not in the kitchen yet but I
knew up front the dishwasher clearance may be a strong possible issue..
The combination of the kitchen had new vinyl many years ago where
underlayment was used, as it should have, and now adding 3/4" more. The
old underlayment does not go under the DW. Stops at the kickplate.

I did some quick visual after removing the kickplate and, as suspected,
it looks grim. Very little clearance between the stone counter and top of
DW. The DW foot rails don't look like they will make it once the hardwood
is in unless it can be tilted up some once everything is loose. Plan is
to put down a scrap strip of flooring, loosen up the DW and see what
happens.

To stir up the pot some more, the 3/4 will be laid on ends to the
kickplate.

If this does indeed turn out to be an issue, I'm looking for ideas on
what has been done in similar situations. The only thing I can figure is
to have a small depth section the width of the DW that can be removed
with some unorthodox improvising of removing the bottom of the grooves on
the left and right of the section. The section could be carefully screwed
from the basement fortunately...I think that's fortunate anyway.

I have no other experience with this type of problem so the only other
thing I can come up with is some type of inlay that is lower than 3/4..

Just looking ahead so I know what my options are if necessary.

Thanks,
Red...

If you do go with hardwood in kitchen (bad idea IMHO), bite the bullet
and strip the floor down to plywood subfloor. If you understandably
don't want to pull the base cabinets, buy or rent an appropriate saw to
flush-cut the (probably particle board) underlayment and vinyl over it.

I've seen kitchens where DW got trapped, and they had to do some real
hacks and butchery for work-arounds. IMHO, finish floor should fill DW
alcove, and the wall and cabinet base edges should be caulked, to direct
any leaks out into the room where you see them quickly. Even in there is
enough room to adjust DW legs and get it out, you don't want it sitting
in a wading pool.

--
aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is considerable wiggle room up on most dw's but the only way to
know for sure is to try it. *Take a scrap of your floor and nail it in
front of the dw. *See if you can get it out.

Personally I'd never put t/g wood in a kitchen. *I live in a slightly
upscale neighborhood (not starter homes but not luxury either) that we
moved into when it was built. *About half of them have t/g in the
kitchen. *Over the 18 years we've been here at least 1/2 of those have
had to rip up sections or all of the hardwood in the kitchen because
of water damage. *And by placed the ends at your dw the number of
damaged boards goes up a great deal. *In most cases the problem
started with a small leak that was not detected immdiately. *Because
small leaks almost never are. *T/g warps up in less that a day when
exposed to water under it. *The warp is permanent. *Most of the houses
with t/g in the kitchen also showed significant wear along the traffic
patterns inside of 10 years. *Kitchens have very consistent traffic
patterns. *While it is a hard flooring, we tiled all our baths and the
kitchen.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I meant to add that when you encounter one of these that is trapped
the fastest solution is to remove the screws holding the countertop.
They can be found inside the cabinets on either side. Just take out
the front ones and loosen the back ones. You do have to do this the
entire length of the countertop in most cases. Then tilt the front of
the countertop up about a inch or so and hold it there wit a few small
scraps of wood on either side of the dw.

On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:35:11 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

Very little clearance between the stone counter and top of
DW.

Does the DW alcove have a horizontal rail at the top, say 1x2?

I've had such a cabinet and have seen others like this. There was
always the option of removing that rail and ripping it down a bit for
more clearance.

My present alcove does not have that railing at the top (cabinet has
3/4" gap at the top - under the stone substrate). The kitchen is tile
and stops real close at/under the kick plate.

Get the measurements of the DW had check the rough opening.

jamesgangnc wrote:
(snip)
I meant to add that when you encounter one of these that is trapped
the fastest solution is to remove the screws holding the countertop.
They can be found inside the cabinets on either side. Just take out
the front ones and loosen the back ones. You do have to do this the
entire length of the countertop in most cases. Then tilt the front of
the countertop up about a inch or so and hold it there wit a few small
scraps of wood on either side of the dw.

That works in a properly built kitchen. Last 10-15 years, common
practice is to glue to counter to top of base cabinets with construction
adhesive and call it good. Major PITA to crawl inside the base cabinets,
and screw up into the counter, especially if there is no young limber
kid on the crew.

--
aem sends...

On May 19, 6:45*pm, aemeijers wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote:

(snip)

I meant to add that when you encounter one of these that is trapped
the fastest solution is to remove the screws holding the countertop.
They can be found inside the cabinets on either side. *Just take out
the front ones and loosen the back ones. *You do have to do this the
entire length of the countertop in most cases. *Then tilt the front of
the countertop up about a inch or so and hold it there wit a few small
scraps of wood on either side of the dw.

That works in a properly built kitchen. Last 10-15 years, common
practice is to glue to counter to top of base cabinets with construction
adhesive and call it good. Major PITA to crawl inside the base cabinets,
and screw up into the counter, especially if there is no young limber
kid on the crew.

--
aem sends...

Yes, I'd be really ****ed if I encountered that on a kitchen remodel.
That would suck.

On May 19, 8:59*pm, Red Green wrote:
Red Green wrote :





As mentioned in another thread, I'm in the process of putting down 3/4
T&G in a few interconnected rooms/hall. I'm not in the kitchen yet but
I knew up front the dishwasher clearance may be a strong possible
issue. The combination of the kitchen had new vinyl many years ago
where underlayment was used, as it should have, and now adding 3/4"
more. The old underlayment does not go under the DW. Stops at the
kickplate.

I did some quick visual after removing the kickplate and, as
suspected, it looks grim. Very little clearance between the stone
counter and top of DW. The DW foot rails don't look like they will
make it once the hardwood is in unless it can be tilted up some once
everything is loose. Plan is to put down a scrap strip of flooring,
loosen up the DW and see what happens.

To stir up the pot some more, the 3/4 will be laid on ends to the
kickplate.

If this does indeed turn out to be an issue, I'm looking for ideas on
what has been done in similar situations. The only thing I can figure
is to have a small depth section the width of the DW that can be
removed with some unorthodox improvising of removing the bottom of the
grooves on the left and right of the section. The section could be
carefully screwed from the basement fortunately...I think that's
fortunate anyway.

I have no other experience with this type of problem so the only other
thing I can come up with is some type of inlay that is lower than 3/4.

Just looking ahead so I know what my options are if necessary.

Thanks,
Red...

Thanks to all for the various replies.

I'll know soon enough if it indeed is a problem. As previously planned as
well as suggested. Will be running some scraps and try to get it out.

T&G choice as well as ends being laid in that direction was not my
decision/choice.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We'll keep our fingers crossed.

Red Green wrote in
:

As mentioned in another thread, I'm in the process of putting down 3/4
T&G in a few interconnected rooms/hall. I'm not in the kitchen yet but
I knew up front the dishwasher clearance may be a strong possible
issue. The combination of the kitchen had new vinyl many years ago
where underlayment was used, as it should have, and now adding 3/4"
more. The old underlayment does not go under the DW. Stops at the
kickplate.

I did some quick visual after removing the kickplate and, as
suspected, it looks grim. Very little clearance between the stone
counter and top of DW. The DW foot rails don't look like they will
make it once the hardwood is in unless it can be tilted up some once
everything is loose. Plan is to put down a scrap strip of flooring,
loosen up the DW and see what happens.

To stir up the pot some more, the 3/4 will be laid on ends to the
kickplate.

If this does indeed turn out to be an issue, I'm looking for ideas on
what has been done in similar situations. The only thing I can figure
is to have a small depth section the width of the DW that can be
removed with some unorthodox improvising of removing the bottom of the
grooves on the left and right of the section. The section could be
carefully screwed from the basement fortunately...I think that's
fortunate anyway.

I have no other experience with this type of problem so the only other
thing I can come up with is some type of inlay that is lower than 3/4.

Just looking ahead so I know what my options are if necessary.

Thanks,
Red...

Final answer is...not going to bring wood floor into the kitchen. Did a
delicate pitch to SWMBO this morning. Foyer, hallway and eat-in is it and
that's done except for new base trim. Came out flawless including having
to raise half the area 3/8" because I removed old popping and broken
tile.

Will be transitioning wood floor to a tile in the kitchen. Solves several
current issues, including some never mentioned, as well as potential
issues like leaking sink/DW/disposal. Especially with the fact that the
board ends would be butted against the sink/DW setup.

Thanks to all for the input.

Red...