This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out there
on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted our
furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a new gas
meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly under-billed
for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas company's meter
readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the meter itself. Our
billings were wildly erratic. For instance, the billing for January, one of
the coldest months on record, was half the billing for December, which was a
relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were assured all
was right. We have had at least six contacts with the gas company over this
issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about one-third of
what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several years, and
then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us for a bill for
thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved through
negotiated settlement.

"Ray" wrote in message
...
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out there
on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted our
furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a new gas
meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly
under-billed for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas
company's meter readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the
meter itself. Our billings were wildly erratic. For instance, the billing
for January, one of the coldest months on record, was half the billing for
December, which was a relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were assured
all was right. We have had at least six contacts with the gas company
over this issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about one-third of
what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several years, and
then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us for a bill for
thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved
through negotiated settlement.

Not a legal answer, but are you sure that some of the erroneous readings
aren't estimated readings (maybe every other month)? If they don't have
usage history on your building, that may cause it. If it is an estimated
usage, it should be noted on your bill.

In article ,
"Ray" wrote:

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved through
negotiated settlement.

I would think the state agency that regulates the gas utility would
be able to tell you about how this works.

--
I get off on '57 Chevys
I get off on screamin' guitars
--Eric Clapton

On Feb 19, 8:46*am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,

*"Ray" wrote:
I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved through
negotiated settlement.

* *I would think the state agency that regulates the gas utility would
be able to tell you about how this works.



There appears to be two potentially different issues. One is some
months you don't use as much gas as you think you should. That could
definitely be due to estimated billing, differences in how many days
between meter reading, etc. I've seen bills where it is not
necessarily obvious if it was estimated unless you look carefully.

The more troubling issue is that the meter readings never are the same
as the actual meter. I don't know how you would know that unless you
recorded the meter yourself every few days. And also that you say the
yearly amount is 1/3, which sure would seem to indicate something is
wrong.

It's possible they are not even reading the correct meter and have the
wrong one tied to your account. That happened to me in a new
condo. After several years, the neighbor had their gas shut off for
non-payment. I came home to a cold house. When they installed the
services, there are 4 located together and they had the lines/meters
mixed up. In that case, the gas company went back to day 1, which
was several years, and adjusted the bills. At least they adjusted
mine, as I got a credit of several hundred bucks. Can't say for sure
if they recovered that sum from the neighbors.

If you want to resolve it, I would call the gas company and have them
send out someone to check the meter and go over this problem while
someone knowledgable about the issue from your side is there. Take
notes of the meeting, names, dates, photo of the meter reading, save
the bills, etc. If they come after you 5 years from now, you could
argue, perhaps successfully, that it's their fault and they have to
eat it. Having good evidence would be key.

If you elect not to resolve it, then I would put some extra money into
the reserves consistent with what you think you may have to pay
someday. There is likely a statute of limitations in your state that
covers how many years back they could go. There might also be
utility regulations or consumer protection laws that cover it as
well. But only a local lawyer is going to be able to give you those
specifics.

"Joe" wrote in message
...

"Ray" wrote in message
...
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out
there on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted our
furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a new gas
meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly
under-billed for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas
company's meter readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the
meter itself. Our billings were wildly erratic. For instance, the
billing for January, one of the coldest months on record, was half the
billing for December, which was a relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were assured
all was right. We have had at least six contacts with the gas company
over this issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about one-third
of what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several years,
and then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us for a bill
for thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved
through negotiated settlement.

Not a legal answer, but are you sure that some of the erroneous readings
aren't estimated readings (maybe every other month)? If they don't have
usage history on your building, that may cause it. If it is an estimated
usage, it should be noted on your bill.



There's no question that the meter readings differ consistently from the
ones reported on the bill.

In article ,
says...
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out there
on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted our
furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a new gas
meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly under-billed
for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas company's meter
readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the meter itself.


If you don't already, keep a log of the meter readings. Check your invoice to
make sure the meter number that is being billed is the same number as your
actual meter, not just the correct address.


--
Dennis

wrote in message
...
On Feb 19, 8:46 am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,

"Ray" wrote:
I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved
through
negotiated settlement.

I would think the state agency that regulates the gas utility would
be able to tell you about how this works.



There appears to be two potentially different issues. One is some
months you don't use as much gas as you think you should. That could
definitely be due to estimated billing, differences in how many days
between meter reading, etc. I've seen bills where it is not
necessarily obvious if it was estimated unless you look carefully.

The more troubling issue is that the meter readings never are the same
as the actual meter. I don't know how you would know that unless you
recorded the meter yourself every few days. And also that you say the
yearly amount is 1/3, which sure would seem to indicate something is
wrong.

It's possible they are not even reading the correct meter and have the
wrong one tied to your account. That happened to me in a new
condo. After several years, the neighbor had their gas shut off for
non-payment. I came home to a cold house. When they installed the
services, there are 4 located together and they had the lines/meters
mixed up. In that case, the gas company went back to day 1, which
was several years, and adjusted the bills. At least they adjusted
mine, as I got a credit of several hundred bucks. Can't say for sure
if they recovered that sum from the neighbors.

If you want to resolve it, I would call the gas company and have them
send out someone to check the meter and go over this problem while
someone knowledgable about the issue from your side is there. Take
notes of the meeting, names, dates, photo of the meter reading, save
the bills, etc. If they come after you 5 years from now, you could
argue, perhaps successfully, that it's their fault and they have to
eat it. Having good evidence would be key.

If you elect not to resolve it, then I would put some extra money into
the reserves consistent with what you think you may have to pay
someday. There is likely a statute of limitations in your state that
covers how many years back they could go. There might also be
utility regulations or consumer protection laws that cover it as
well. But only a local lawyer is going to be able to give you those
specifics.




Thanks for the detailed response. There's no question that the monthly meter
readings as recorded on the bill differ significantly from those on the
meter itself. We have kept records carefully on this.

We've contacted the gas company several times and are always advised that
things seem correct from their point of view, although on the phone one guy
did acknowledge that it was unusual that we at times used more gas in summer
than in winter. (The water heater is also connected to our gas mater.)

Yes, we are accumulating a reserve in case they come back with a
monster-bill.

Ray wrote:
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out
there on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted our
furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a new
gas meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly
under-billed for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas
company's meter readings on the bill did not correspond to those on
the meter itself. Our billings were wildly erratic. For instance,
the billing for January, one of the coldest months on record, was
half the billing for December, which was a relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were
assured all was right. We have had at least six contacts with the
gas company over this issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about
one-third of what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several
years, and then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us
for a bill for thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved
through negotiated settlement.

There are two separate issues he

1. You should continue to press for a sensible explanation. Use certified
letters.

1. You used the gas, you are obligated to pay for it. You should escrow the
anticipated amount somewhere so you'll be able to handle the possible
result. A "mistake" in this billing will almost always be resolved in favor
of the gas company under the principle of "unjust enrichment." That said, if
you continue to tell them you think a mistake is being made and they
continue to tell you all is okay, you can easily claim they merely lowered
your bill because they're a bunch of swell fellows.

As a practical matter, you'e liable. If you don't pay, the gas company will
shut off the gas. Your only recourse then is to get lawyers, writs,
depositions by the barrow loads, hearings, witnesses, records, notaries
public without number. a lot of "further affiant sayeth nots...", and
experts involved.

"DT" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out there
on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted our
furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a new gas
meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly
under-billed
for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas company's meter
readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the meter itself.


If you don't already, keep a log of the meter readings. Check your invoice
to
make sure the meter number that is being billed is the same number as your
actual meter, not just the correct address.


--
Dennis


We do keep a log.

One of the mysteries is that the number on the meter and on the bill
coincide precisely. It's the readings that don't coincide. Ours are
consistent -- the company's readings are wildly erratic, even chaotic.

On Feb 19, 10:32*am, "Ray" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Feb 19, 8:46 am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,

*"Ray" wrote:
I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved
through
negotiated settlement.

* *I would think the state agency that regulates the gas utility would
be able to tell you about how this works.

There appears to be two potentially different issues. *One is some
months you don't use as much gas as you think you should. * That could
definitely be due to estimated billing, differences in how many days
between meter reading, etc. * I've seen bills where it is not
necessarily obvious if it was estimated unless you look carefully.

The more troubling issue is that the meter readings never are the same
as the actual meter. * I don't know how you would know that unless you
recorded the meter yourself every few days. *And also that you say the
yearly amount is 1/3, which sure would seem to indicate something is
wrong.

It's possible they are not even reading the correct meter and have the
wrong one tied to your account. * That happened to me in a new
condo. * After several years, the neighbor had their gas shut off for
non-payment. *I came home to a cold house. * When they installed the
services, there are 4 located together and they had the lines/meters
mixed up. * In that case, the gas company went back to day 1, which
was several years, and adjusted the bills. * At least they adjusted
mine, as I got a credit of several hundred bucks. *Can't say for sure
if they recovered that sum from the neighbors.

If you want to resolve it, I would call the gas company and have them
send out someone to check the meter and go over this problem while
someone knowledgable about the issue from your side is there. *Take
notes of the meeting, names, dates, photo of the meter reading, save
the bills, etc. * *If they come after you 5 years from now, you could
argue, perhaps successfully, that it's their fault and they have to
eat it. *Having good evidence would be key.

If you elect not to resolve it, then I would put some extra money into
the reserves consistent with what you think you may have to pay
someday. * There is likely a statute of limitations in your state that
covers how many years back they could go. * There might also be
utility regulations or consumer protection laws that cover it as
well. *But only a local lawyer is going to be able to give you those
specifics.

Thanks for the detailed response. There's no question that the monthly meter
readings as recorded on the bill differ significantly from those on the
meter itself. We have kept records carefully on this.


We've contacted the gas company several times and are always advised that
things seem correct from their point of view, although on the phone one guy
did acknowledge that it was unusual that we at times used more gas in summer
than in winter. (The water heater is also connected to our gas mater.)

Yes, we are accumulating a reserve in case they come back with a
monster-bill.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



OK, here's some more questions. Exactly how do they differ? Is it
that they are just off by X amount one month Y another month, but
overall what you see on the meter and the bill are at least tracking
each other? Or are you saying that each month the readings grow
further and further apart? Since you say the yearly bill is about
1/3 what you expected it to be, I would expect it's the latter? If
so, then something is very wrong and I don't see how the gas company
can just say everything is OK.

Also, how do you know what the meter actually reads on the day they
say they read it? Is someone recording it daily? Are you sure you
are reading the right meter? Does the meter # match the bill? Is
there any other meter nearby that it could be crossed with? If there
was any other meter around and if it was my own house, I'd shut off
the valve at the meter and verify that the gas goes off at the
furnace. In a 4 unit condo, you could do it, but need everyone home
if there are gas appliances, water heaters etc that have pilot lights
that need to be re-lit in the various units.

The fact that you use more gas some months in summer is particularly
troubling. Heating water in a residential application is typically
small compared to heating bills. In summer, my gas bill is usually
less than $20 a month, while in winter, it can be 10X that. Of course
it also depends on where you are located. My first suspicion would be
that they somehow have your meter # crossed with some other
account. In any case, with a situation this screwy they should be
willing to send someone out and if no rational explanation can be
determined, they should switch out the meter.

Ray wrote:


"Joe" wrote in message
...

"Ray" wrote in message
...
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out
there on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted
our furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a
new gas meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly
under-billed for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas
company's meter readings on the bill did not correspond to those on
the meter itself. Our billings were wildly erratic. For instance, the
billing for January, one of the coldest months on record, was half
the billing for December, which was a relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were
assured all was right. We have had at least six contacts with the gas
company over this issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about
one-third of what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several
years, and then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us
for a bill for thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved
through negotiated settlement.

Not a legal answer, but are you sure that some of the erroneous
readings aren't estimated readings (maybe every other month)? If they
don't have usage history on your building, that may cause it. If it is
an estimated usage, it should be noted on your bill.



There's no question that the meter readings differ consistently from the
ones reported on the bill.
Hi,
Often gas co. uses estimated reading and once in a while meter is read
and bill will be adjusted. They do that out at my cabin. At the end I
end up paying what I owe or vice versa. Don't you have an option to read
the meter yourself and submit the reading to the gas co.? Estimate
reading works pretty good after a year which time they know the
consumption pattern. Any how if you over paid, at the end you'll get
credit. If under paid, you may have to pay larger than usual amount to
catch up. No matter wht, I think gas co. has upper hand. Legally what
can you do?

Ray wrote:
"DT" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers
out there on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted
our furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of
a new gas meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly
under-billed
for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas company's
meter readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the meter
itself.


If you don't already, keep a log of the meter readings. Check your
invoice to
make sure the meter number that is being billed is the same number
as your actual meter, not just the correct address.


--
Dennis


We do keep a log.

One of the mysteries is that the number on the meter and on the bill
coincide precisely. It's the readings that don't coincide. Ours are
consistent -- the company's readings are wildly erratic, even chaotic.

But, do they track? Over a few months, do their readings fall between your
readings bracketing the time they read it? Or are their reading way higher/lower
than yours on a consistant basis?

Ray wrote:
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out
there on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted our
furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a new gas
meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly
under-billed for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas
company's meter readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the
meter itself. Our billings were wildly erratic. For instance, the
billing for January, one of the coldest months on record, was half the
billing for December, which was a relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were assured
all was right. We have had at least six contacts with the gas company
over this issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about one-third
of what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several years,
and then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us for a
bill for thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved
through negotiated settlement.

Look at the utility's website; it may answer your question. Long time
ago, in Indiana, we had questions about the water metering. The city's
answer was that if the meter had been undermeasuring, we were liable for
the est. difference when a new meter was installed. If it had been
overmeasuring, no action (the city would not refund us). Your city
building department may also have the facts. Not knowing where you
live, no atty is going to be able to give you an accurate answer.

Ray wrote:


"Joe" wrote in message
...

"Ray" wrote in message
...
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out
there on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted
our furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a
new gas meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly
under-billed for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas
company's meter readings on the bill did not correspond to those on
the meter itself. Our billings were wildly erratic. For instance,
the billing for January, one of the coldest months on record, was
half the billing for December, which was a relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were
assured all was right. We have had at least six contacts with the
gas company over this issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about
one-third of what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several
years, and then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us
for a bill for thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved
through negotiated settlement.

Not a legal answer, but are you sure that some of the erroneous
readings aren't estimated readings (maybe every other month)? If they
don't have usage history on your building, that may cause it. If it
is an estimated usage, it should be noted on your bill.



There's no question that the meter readings differ consistently from the
ones reported on the bill.

Read on the same date? Electronically or on site?

Not an attorney. But, my utiltiy company used to
let you read and report your own meter reading
every other month or so. I remember, when I was a
teen, it was a lot of fun to read the gas meter,
and mail in the form.

My bill has the "meter number" which is inside the
glass, by the reading dials. Perhaps you're
reading the wrong meter? Take your bill, in hand,
and go check the numbers. That might be the
confusion.

You mentioned six units in your place?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ray"
wrote in message
news

There's no question that the meter readings differ
consistently from the
ones reported on the bill.

Meter reader has shaky hands and drinking problem?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ray" wrote in
message ...


We do keep a log.

One of the mysteries is that the number on the
meter and on the bill
coincide precisely. It's the readings that don't
coincide. Ours are
consistent -- the company's readings are wildly
erratic, even chaotic.

I think what I would do is to take my own meter readings and calculate the
bill yourself. Now when you are under billed, pay the demanded amount and
then deposit the difference into an interest bearing account.

At least once a year, ask the gas company to check your meter for accuracy.
When they reply stating that they have checked it and found it to be OK,
file the letter.

Find out what the statute of limitations is for the gas company seeking
arrears billing is, and when that time period has been reached you can then
withdraw the amount in the overage account and either refund or credit the
homeowners with that amount including any interest.

By doing this it seems to me that you will have protected the interests of
the homeowners, and afforded the gas company multiple opportunities to
correct their error, so your conscious can be clear.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.


"Ray" wrote in message
...
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out there
on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted our
furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a new gas
meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly
under-billed
for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas company's meter
readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the meter itself. Our
billings were wildly erratic. For instance, the billing for January, one
of
the coldest months on record, was half the billing for December, which was
a
relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were assured
all
was right. We have had at least six contacts with the gas company over
this
issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about one-third of
what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several years, and
then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us for a bill for
thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved
through
negotiated settlement.

"Ray" wrote in message
...

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were assured
all was right. We have had at least six contacts with the gas company
over this issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about one-third of
what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several years, and
then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us for a bill for
thousands of dollars?

It would be prudent to heavily document every contact you've had with the
gas company so if it ever turns into an issue you can show that you
repeatedly made good faith efforts to inform them of your concerns. Don't
rely on phone calls, get everything in writing. You might want to contact
the highest exec you can reach in the company too, not only in hopes of
getting the situation dealt with but also so they can never say some
low-level droid messed up. Sometimes he with the most pieces of paper wins.

In article , "Ray" wrote:

One of the mysteries is that the number on the meter and on the bill
coincide precisely. It's the readings that don't coincide.

I was beginning to wonder if you were reading the meter correctly, until I
read this sentence:

Ours are
consistent -- the company's readings are wildly erratic, even chaotic.

Now, I wonder if the meter reader is reading it correctly.

We had that problem at our previous house, when the power company put a new
guy on the route without proper training. After the fourth consecutive month
of wildly incorrect meter readings -- and the power company's adamant refusal
to believe that their employee could possibly be reading the meter wrong -- I
finally printed out a diagram similar to the ones shown here

http://www.mesaaz.gov/custserv/read_meter.aspx

and taped it to the meter, prominently labeled "HOW TO READ A UTILITY METER"
in large, bold, red type. End of problem.

wrote in message
...
Ray wrote:


"Joe" wrote in message
...

"Ray" wrote in message
...
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out
there on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted our
furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a new
gas meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly
under-billed for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas
company's meter readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the
meter itself. Our billings were wildly erratic. For instance, the
billing for January, one of the coldest months on record, was half the
billing for December, which was a relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were
assured all was right. We have had at least six contacts with the gas
company over this issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about one-third
of what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several years,
and then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us for a
bill for thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved
through negotiated settlement.

Not a legal answer, but are you sure that some of the erroneous readings
aren't estimated readings (maybe every other month)? If they don't have
usage history on your building, that may cause it. If it is an
estimated usage, it should be noted on your bill.



There's no question that the meter readings differ consistently from the
ones reported on the bill.

Read on the same date? Electronically or on site?

The gas company sends a truck out, parks in our driveway, and reads all
meters in the building electronically.

I read our building meter on the same date.

We have six units, but the meter in question is the single building-wide
meter which measures gas supplied to water heater and furnace.

I've taken the bill to the meter, and the meter number is absolutely the
same as the one on the bill.

What differs is the meter readings -- their readings are altogether
different, and wildly erratic, from the reading on the meter itself.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Not an attorney. But, my utiltiy company used to
let you read and report your own meter reading
every other month or so. I remember, when I was a
teen, it was a lot of fun to read the gas meter,
and mail in the form.

My bill has the "meter number" which is inside the
glass, by the reading dials. Perhaps you're
reading the wrong meter? Take your bill, in hand,
and go check the numbers. That might be the
confusion.

You mentioned six units in your place?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Ray"
wrote in message
news

There's no question that the meter readings differ
consistently from the
ones reported on the bill.

wrote in message
...
On Feb 19, 10:32 am, "Ray" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Feb 19, 8:46 am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,

"Ray" wrote:
I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved
through
negotiated settlement.

I would think the state agency that regulates the gas utility would
be able to tell you about how this works.

There appears to be two potentially different issues. One is some
months you don't use as much gas as you think you should. That could
definitely be due to estimated billing, differences in how many days
between meter reading, etc. I've seen bills where it is not
necessarily obvious if it was estimated unless you look carefully.

The more troubling issue is that the meter readings never are the same
as the actual meter. I don't know how you would know that unless you
recorded the meter yourself every few days. And also that you say the
yearly amount is 1/3, which sure would seem to indicate something is
wrong.

It's possible they are not even reading the correct meter and have the
wrong one tied to your account. That happened to me in a new
condo. After several years, the neighbor had their gas shut off for
non-payment. I came home to a cold house. When they installed the
services, there are 4 located together and they had the lines/meters
mixed up. In that case, the gas company went back to day 1, which
was several years, and adjusted the bills. At least they adjusted
mine, as I got a credit of several hundred bucks. Can't say for sure
if they recovered that sum from the neighbors.

If you want to resolve it, I would call the gas company and have them
send out someone to check the meter and go over this problem while
someone knowledgable about the issue from your side is there. Take
notes of the meeting, names, dates, photo of the meter reading, save
the bills, etc. If they come after you 5 years from now, you could
argue, perhaps successfully, that it's their fault and they have to
eat it. Having good evidence would be key.

If you elect not to resolve it, then I would put some extra money into
the reserves consistent with what you think you may have to pay
someday. There is likely a statute of limitations in your state that
covers how many years back they could go. There might also be
utility regulations or consumer protection laws that cover it as
well. But only a local lawyer is going to be able to give you those
specifics.

Thanks for the detailed response. There's no question that the monthly
meter
readings as recorded on the bill differ significantly from those on the
meter itself. We have kept records carefully on this.


We've contacted the gas company several times and are always advised that
things seem correct from their point of view, although on the phone one
guy
did acknowledge that it was unusual that we at times used more gas in
summer
than in winter. (The water heater is also connected to our gas mater.)

Yes, we are accumulating a reserve in case they come back with a
monster-bill.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



OK, here's some more questions. Exactly how do they differ? Is it
that they are just off by X amount one month Y another month, but
overall what you see on the meter and the bill are at least tracking
each other? Or are you saying that each month the readings grow
further and further apart? Since you say the yearly bill is about
1/3 what you expected it to be, I would expect it's the latter? If
so, then something is very wrong and I don't see how the gas company
can just say everything is OK.

Also, how do you know what the meter actually reads on the day they
say they read it? Is someone recording it daily? Are you sure you
are reading the right meter? Does the meter # match the bill? Is
there any other meter nearby that it could be crossed with? If there
was any other meter around and if it was my own house, I'd shut off
the valve at the meter and verify that the gas goes off at the
furnace. In a 4 unit condo, you could do it, but need everyone home
if there are gas appliances, water heaters etc that have pilot lights
that need to be re-lit in the various units.

The fact that you use more gas some months in summer is particularly
troubling. Heating water in a residential application is typically
small compared to heating bills. In summer, my gas bill is usually
less than $20 a month, while in winter, it can be 10X that. Of course
it also depends on where you are located. My first suspicion would be
that they somehow have your meter # crossed with some other
account. In any case, with a situation this screwy they should be
willing to send someone out and if no rational explanation can be
determined, they should switch out the meter.


They read our meter electronically, sitting in a truck in our building
driveway.

To use the most recent example: Their reading for February, dated Feb. 16,
stated that we had used 560 units during the previous month.

Our meter, also read on Feb. 16, showed that we had in fact used 1730 units
in the same period.

"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Ray wrote:
"DT" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers
out there on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted
our furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of
a new gas meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly
under-billed
for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas company's
meter readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the meter
itself.


If you don't already, keep a log of the meter readings. Check your
invoice to
make sure the meter number that is being billed is the same number
as your actual meter, not just the correct address.


--
Dennis


We do keep a log.

One of the mysteries is that the number on the meter and on the bill
coincide precisely. It's the readings that don't coincide. Ours are
consistent -- the company's readings are wildly erratic, even chaotic.

But, do they track? Over a few months, do their readings fall between your
readings bracketing the time they read it? Or are their reading way
higher/lower than yours on a consistant basis?




Their reading as reported on the bill is consistently lower than the reading
on our meter. It's been this way ever since they installed the new meter a
year ago.

That's pretty much exactly what we do.

"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...
I think what I would do is to take my own meter readings and calculate the
bill yourself. Now when you are under billed, pay the demanded amount and
then deposit the difference into an interest bearing account.

At least once a year, ask the gas company to check your meter for
accuracy.
When they reply stating that they have checked it and found it to be OK,
file the letter.

Find out what the statute of limitations is for the gas company seeking
arrears billing is, and when that time period has been reached you can
then
withdraw the amount in the overage account and either refund or credit the
homeowners with that amount including any interest.

By doing this it seems to me that you will have protected the interests of
the homeowners, and afforded the gas company multiple opportunities to
correct their error, so your conscious can be clear.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube,
then
they come up with this striped stuff.


"Ray" wrote in message
...
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out
there
on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted our
furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a new gas
meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly
under-billed
for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas company's meter
readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the meter itself.
Our
billings were wildly erratic. For instance, the billing for January, one
of
the coldest months on record, was half the billing for December, which
was
a
relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were assured
all
was right. We have had at least six contacts with the gas company over
this
issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about one-third
of
what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several years,
and
then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us for a bill for
thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved
through
negotiated settlement.

"DGDevin" wrote in message
...

"Ray" wrote in message
...

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were assured
all was right. We have had at least six contacts with the gas company
over this issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about one-third
of what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several years,
and then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us for a bill
for thousands of dollars?

It would be prudent to heavily document every contact you've had with the
gas company so if it ever turns into an issue you can show that you
repeatedly made good faith efforts to inform them of your concerns. Don't
rely on phone calls, get everything in writing. You might want to contact
the highest exec you can reach in the company too, not only in hopes of
getting the situation dealt with but also so they can never say some
low-level droid messed up. Sometimes he with the most pieces of paper
wins.


We scrupulously keep a record of our contacts.

Ray wrote:
We have six units, but the meter in question is the single building-wide
meter which measures gas supplied to water heater and furnace.

I've taken the bill to the meter, and the meter number is absolutely the
same as the one on the bill.

What differs is the meter readings -- their readings are altogether
different, and wildly erratic, from the reading on the meter itself.

Have you asked the utility specifically to take a visual at the meter at
the same time they read it electronically? Seems that would be a
reasonable request. I would also make the specific request in writing,
send certified mail and keep copies. It's a tad frightening to
contemplate a huge bill coming along some day and one would reasonably
expect that if there is a large sum billed someday that your notice to
them would limit your liability.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Not an attorney. But, my utiltiy company used to
let you read and report your own meter reading
every other month or so. I remember, when I was a
teen, it was a lot of fun to read the gas meter,
and mail in the form.

My bill has the "meter number" which is inside the
glass, by the reading dials. Perhaps you're
reading the wrong meter? Take your bill, in hand,
and go check the numbers. That might be the
confusion.

You mentioned six units in your place?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Ray"
wrote in message
news

There's no question that the meter readings differ
consistently from the
ones reported on the bill.

On Feb 19, 4:22*pm, "Ray" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Feb 19, 10:32 am, "Ray" wrote:
wrote in message

....

On Feb 19, 8:46 am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,

*"Ray" wrote:
I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved
through
negotiated settlement.

* *I would think the state agency that regulates the gas utility would
be able to tell you about how this works.

There appears to be two potentially different issues. *One is some
months you don't use as much gas as you think you should. * That could
definitely be due to estimated billing, differences in how many days
between meter reading, etc. * I've seen bills where it is not
necessarily obvious if it was estimated unless you look carefully.

The more troubling issue is that the meter readings never are the same
as the actual meter. * I don't know how you would know that unless you
recorded the meter yourself every few days. *And also that you say the
yearly amount is 1/3, which sure would seem to indicate something is
wrong.

It's possible they are not even reading the correct meter and have the
wrong one tied to your account. * That happened to me in a new
condo. * After several years, the neighbor had their gas shut off for
non-payment. *I came home to a cold house. * When they installed the
services, there are 4 located together and they had the lines/meters
mixed up. * In that case, the gas company went back to day 1, which
was several years, and adjusted the bills. * At least they adjusted
mine, as I got a credit of several hundred bucks. *Can't say for sure
if they recovered that sum from the neighbors.

If you want to resolve it, I would call the gas company and have them
send out someone to check the meter and go over this problem while
someone knowledgable about the issue from your side is there. *Take
notes of the meeting, names, dates, photo of the meter reading, save
the bills, etc. * *If they come after you 5 years from now, you could
argue, perhaps successfully, that it's their fault and they have to
eat it. *Having good evidence would be key.

If you elect not to resolve it, then I would put some extra money into
the reserves consistent with what you think you may have to pay
someday. * There is likely a statute of limitations in your state that
covers how many years back they could go. * There might also be
utility regulations or consumer protection laws that cover it as
well. *But only a local lawyer is going to be able to give you those
specifics.

Thanks for the detailed response. There's no question that the monthly
meter
readings as recorded on the bill differ significantly from those on the
meter itself. We have kept records carefully on this.

We've contacted the gas company several times and are always advised that
things seem correct from their point of view, although on the phone one
guy
did acknowledge that it was unusual that we at times used more gas in
summer
than in winter. (The water heater is also connected to our gas mater.)

Yes, we are accumulating a reserve in case they come back with a
monster-bill.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK, here's some more questions. * Exactly how do they differ? * Is it
that they are just off by X amount one month Y another month, but
overall what you see on the meter and the bill are at least tracking
each other? * *Or are you saying that each month the readings grow
further and further apart? * Since you say the yearly bill is about
1/3 what you expected it to be, I would expect it's the latter? * If
so, then something is very wrong and I don't see how the gas company
can just say everything is OK.

Also, how do you know what the meter actually reads on the day they
say they read it? * Is someone recording it daily? * Are you sure you
are reading the right meter? *Does the meter # match the bill? * Is
there any other meter nearby that it could be crossed with? * If there
was any other meter around and if it was my own house, I'd shut off
the valve at the meter and verify that the gas goes off at the
furnace. *In a 4 unit condo, you could do it, but need everyone home
if there are gas appliances, water heaters etc that have pilot lights
that need to be re-lit in the various units.

The fact that you use more gas some months in summer is particularly
troubling. * Heating water in a residential application is typically
small compared to heating bills. * In summer, my gas bill is usually
less than $20 a month, while in winter, it can be 10X that. *Of course
it also depends on where you are located. *My first suspicion would be
that they somehow have your meter # crossed with some other
account. * *In any case, with a situation this screwy they should be
willing to send someone out and if no rational explanation can be
determined, they should switch out the meter.

They read our meter electronically, sitting in a truck in our building
driveway.

To use the most recent example: Their reading for February, dated Feb. 16,
stated that we had used 560 units during the previous month.

Our meter, also read on Feb. 16, showed that we had in fact used 1730 units
in the same period.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


That's almost exactly a factor of 3 off. And you said earlier that
the bill for the entire year was about 1/3 of what you thought it
should be. Are you sure you are reading the meter correctly and both
you and the utility are using the same units of measure, eg cubic
feet?, etc?

I don''t understand why this can't be solved with a phone call. A
simple month or two discrepancy I can understand. By now your bill
says the meter reading is X and you say the meter reading is 3X and
it;s been that way for a year. You get customer service from the
gas company on the phone, state the above facts and if they can't
either explain it or offer to send someone out to solve it, then ask
for a supervisor. Or go over there in person.

"Ray" wrote in message
...

They read our meter electronically, sitting in a truck in our building
driveway.

To use the most recent example: Their reading for February, dated Feb. 16,
stated that we had used 560 units during the previous month.

Our meter, also read on Feb. 16, showed that we had in fact used 1730
units in the same period.

Your example doesn't quite make sense.

The 560 units and 1730 units that you are comparing are not meter
readings -- they are differences between two meter readings. Simply stating
that they calculated that you used 560 units when you calculated that you
used 1730 units doesn't say anything about what they say the meter reading
was on on Feb 16 or what you say the meter reading was on Feb 16. You need
to look at and compare what they said the actual meter reading was on Feb 16
and what the actual meter reading was on Feb 16 when you read it. Then, do
the same thing for the January 16 (approx., +/- one or two days) -- meaning
state what they said the actual meter reading was on January 16 and what the
actual meter reading was on January 16 when you read it.

Or, to state it another way, a meter reading is not how many units you used
during the previous month. A meter reading is what the numbers on the meter
say on any particular date.

And, regarding the overall lower bills for heat and hot water -- meaning a
lot less than you expected to pay ---- most likely when you converted from
oil to gas, you removed a very old and very inefficient oil-fired heater
unit and installed a brand new much more energy efficient gas-fired heater
unit. Maybe your old oil heater was functioning at an efficiency rating
around 55%-65% and maybe your new gas heater is functioning at 85% or 90%.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:13:51 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

Read on the same date? Electronically or on site?

The gas company sends a truck out, parks in our driveway, and reads all
meters in the building electronically.

I read our building meter on the same date.

We got a new meter for the gas more than a year ago. A wireless
transmitting unit. The truck just drives by.

What I understand is these newer units are more accurate and they are
more precise, regarding actual cubic feet of gas used. IOW, my reading
may be as accurate?

"Ray" wrote in message
Yes, we are accumulating a reserve in case they come back with a
monster-bill.

Smart to do. Technically, you are liable for payment of what you use. I
have seen some cases though, where the utility gave people some time to pay
up or forgave a portion of the payment due since it was their error. This
is just based on a few things I've read from our newspaper and your utility
may not work the same way. In any case, try to negotiate if they come back
with a big bill. Your utility regulators may be of some help if needed.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:38:15 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out there
on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted our
furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a new gas
meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly under-billed
for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas company's meter
readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the meter itself. Our
billings were wildly erratic. For instance, the billing for January, one of
the coldest months on record, was half the billing for December, which was a
relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were assured all
was right. We have had at least six contacts with the gas company over this
issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about one-third of
what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several years, and
then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us for a bill for
thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved through
negotiated settlement.

One question that I haven't seen asked that could be the key. Have
you tracked the other meters to see if any of them agree with your
bill? You may know your meter number but the meters may be numbered
incorrectly.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:00:23 -0600, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

One question that I haven't seen asked that could be the key. Have
you tracked the other meters to see if any of them agree with your
bill? You may know your meter number but the meters may be numbered
incorrectly.

Another question:

Does the drive-by meter reader, over wireless have a faulty software?

The company will not admit that fault. They fix one bug and introduce
three more?!

On Feb 19, 6:19*pm, "Jay-T" wrote:
"Ray" wrote in message

...



They read our meter electronically, sitting in a truck in our building
driveway.

To use the most recent example: Their reading for February, dated Feb. 16,
stated that we had used 560 units during the previous month.

Our meter, also read on Feb. 16, showed that we had in fact used 1730
units in the same period.

Your example doesn't quite make sense.

The 560 units and 1730 units that you are comparing are not meter
readings -- they are differences between two meter readings. *Simply stating
that they calculated that you used 560 units when you calculated that you
used 1730 units doesn't say anything about what they say the meter reading
was on on Feb 16 or what you say the meter reading was on Feb 16. *You need
to look at and compare what they said the actual meter reading was on Feb 16
and what the actual meter reading was on Feb 16 when you read it. *Then, do
the same thing for the January 16 (approx., +/- one or two days) -- meaning
state what they said the actual meter reading was on January 16 and what the
actual meter reading was on January 16 when you read it.

Or, to state it another way, a meter reading is not how many units you used
during the previous month. *A meter reading is what the numbers on the meter
say on any particular date.

I agree. If this has been going on for a year and they are getting
billed for 1/3 what their own meter readings indicate, then the actual
meter reading numbers reported on the bill and their own reading must
be miles apart. I don't understand how a gas company can be just
saying everything looks ok from their standpoint when you have a
customer saying I read the meter on the same date you did, Mine says
13456 yours says 9780. Last month mine said 13005, yours said 9900.
It would seem if you really want this resolved, all you have to do is
be firm with the gas company and insist on escalating it.



And, regarding the overall lower bills for heat and hot water -- meaning a
lot less than you expected to pay ---- *most likely when you converted from
oil to gas, you removed a very old and very inefficient oil-fired heater
unit and installed a brand new much more energy efficient gas-fired heater
unit. *Maybe your old oil heater was functioning at an efficiency rating
around 55%-65% and maybe your new gas heater is functioning at 85% or 90%..

I agree that's a possibility. But to have the bills reduced by 2/3
overall from what they were expecting seems a bit extreme. Plus
there is the mystery of how in some summer months they are getting
billed for more usage than in winter months. If somehow their
account is tied to someone else's meter, or the meter piping is
crossed with another nearby meter, that would explain the whole thing.

Ray wrote:


wrote in message
...
Ray wrote:


"Joe" wrote in message
...

"Ray" wrote in message
...
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers
out there on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted
our furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of
a new gas meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly
under-billed for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas
company's meter readings on the bill did not correspond to those on
the meter itself. Our billings were wildly erratic. For instance,
the billing for January, one of the coldest months on record, was
half the billing for December, which was a relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were
assured all was right. We have had at least six contacts with the
gas company over this issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about
one-third of what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several
years, and then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits
us for a bill for thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be
resolved through negotiated settlement.

Not a legal answer, but are you sure that some of the erroneous
readings aren't estimated readings (maybe every other month)? If
they don't have usage history on your building, that may cause it.
If it is an estimated usage, it should be noted on your bill.



There's no question that the meter readings differ consistently from
the ones reported on the bill.

Read on the same date? Electronically or on site?

The gas company sends a truck out, parks in our driveway, and reads all
meters in the building electronically.

I read our building meter on the same date.

I don't know what kind of gadget is used to read meters electronically,
but...is it possible there is some interference or obstacle that would
cause the reader to pick up the signal for the wrong meter?

wrote:
....

I don't know what kind of gadget is used to read meters electronically,
but...is it possible there is some interference or obstacle that would
cause the reader to pick up the signal for the wrong meter?

Highly unlikely; these devices use a communications protocol including
ID, etc., that makes confusion between devices themselves unlikely.

As others noted, it's possible there's a mixup in the
records/database/elsewhere about who's meter is whose, of course.
(Although you'd think somebody w/ 3X their normal usage to compensate
for the under-usage of OP would also be complaining if were that simple
a problem.)

Hard to believe a utility company would fail to check up pretty
seriously w/ a customer who's complaining there billings are
_significantly_ low...

I'd as others have mentioned suggest the OP escalate the discussion up
the food chain and follow up w/ written correspondence rather than just
the phone call if can't receive actual satisfaction or still think is
real cause for concern.

Also as others noted there's the uncertainty in what OP is reporting vis
a vis what the billing statement actually is stating.

And, of course, the other issue of not only did they upgrade the boiler
they switched from oil to gas -- we have no information on whether the
rate conversion comparison OP is expecting is based on correct
assumptions of $/therm for each fuel and relative efficiencies, etc.,
etc., etc., ...

NG is typically cheaper than oil in most markets but no indications here
of any of that.

--

--

wrote:

I agree. If this has been going on for a year and they are getting
billed for 1/3 what their own meter readings indicate, then the actual
meter reading numbers reported on the bill and their own reading must
be miles apart. I don't understand how a gas company can be just
saying everything looks ok from their standpoint when you have a
customer saying I read the meter on the same date you did, Mine says
13456 yours says 9780. Last month mine said 13005, yours said 9900.
It would seem if you really want this resolved, all you have to do is
be firm with the gas company and insist on escalating it.



If the gas company's reading was 9900 one month and 9780 the next month,
that means the customer put more into the gas line than he took out.

Do gas companies, like electric power providers, give you credit for
generating more gas than you use?

Someone should look into this.

Ray,

You haven't replied to my post.

Are you reading the actual meter readings (meaning the number on the meter),
or are you reading the number of units used that you see on your bill. You
seem to be comparing "units" used that they reported and not the actual
meter readings.

Jay-T wrote:
"Ray" wrote in message
...

They read our meter electronically, sitting in a truck in our
building driveway.

To use the most recent example: Their reading for February, dated
Feb. 16, stated that we had used 560 units during the previous month.

Our meter, also read on Feb. 16, showed that we had in fact used 1730
units in the same period.

Your example doesn't quite make sense.

The 560 units and 1730 units that you are comparing are not meter
readings -- they are differences between two meter readings. Simply
stating that they calculated that you used 560 units when you
calculated that you used 1730 units doesn't say anything about what
they say the meter reading was on on Feb 16 or what you say the meter
reading was on Feb 16. You need to look at and compare what they
said the actual meter reading was on Feb 16 and what the actual meter
reading was on Feb 16 when you read it. Then, do the same thing for
the January 16 (approx., +/- one or two days) -- meaning state what
they said the actual meter reading was on January 16 and what the
actual meter reading was on January 16 when you read it.
Or, to state it another way, a meter reading is not how many units
you used during the previous month. A meter reading is what the
numbers on the meter say on any particular date.

And, regarding the overall lower bills for heat and hot water --
meaning a lot less than you expected to pay ---- most likely when
you converted from oil to gas, you removed a very old and very
inefficient oil-fired heater unit and installed a brand new much more
energy efficient gas-fired heater unit. Maybe your old oil heater
was functioning at an efficiency rating around 55%-65% and maybe your
new gas heater is functioning at 85% or 90%.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:38:15 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out there
on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted our
furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a new gas
meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly under-billed
for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas company's meter
readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the meter itself. Our
billings were wildly erratic. For instance, the billing for January, one of
the coldest months on record, was half the billing for December, which was a
relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were assured all
was right. We have had at least six contacts with the gas company over this
issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about one-third of
what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several years, and
then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us for a bill for
thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved through
negotiated settlement.

Why dont you believe the gas company in that "all is right?" Some
reason to not trust the gas company? If you owe a large sum they
will most likely work it out over a time period to fit your budget
with carrying charges added. With your scenario there may be a class
action law suit. The real trouble begins when you don't pay your gas
bill "in full" when it is due. I find natural gas a real bargain.

HeyBub wrote:
wrote:
I agree. If this has been going on for a year and they are getting
billed for 1/3 what their own meter readings indicate, then the actual
meter reading numbers reported on the bill and their own reading must
be miles apart. I don't understand how a gas company can be just
saying everything looks ok from their standpoint when you have a
customer saying I read the meter on the same date you did, Mine says
13456 yours says 9780. Last month mine said 13005, yours said 9900.
It would seem if you really want this resolved, all you have to do is
be firm with the gas company and insist on escalating it.



If the gas company's reading was 9900 one month and 9780 the next month,
that means the customer put more into the gas line than he took out.

Do gas companies, like electric power providers, give you credit for
generating more gas than you use?

Someone should look into this.



Sometimes, depending on my diet, I produce a lot of gas. No leak
revealing odorous compound needs to be added to it.

TDD

On Feb 20, 8:51*pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:38:15 -0500, "Ray"





wrote:
This is essentially a legal question -- if there are any lawyers out there
on alt.home.repair

I live in a six-unit coop apartment. About a year ago we converted our
furnace from oil to natural gas. This required installation of a new gas
meter.

Almost at once it was evident that we were being significantly under-billed
for our gas service. It also became clear that the gas company's meter
readings on the bill did not correspond to those on the meter itself. *Our
billings were wildly erratic. For instance, the billing for January, one of
the coldest months on record, was half the billing for December, which was a
relatively warm month.

We called, and then wrote the gas company, and each time we were assured all
was right. *We have had at least six contacts with the gas company over this
issue.

We estimate that our gas heating costs for 2009 came in about one-third of
what we were expecting -- and budgeting.

So my question is, what if this situation continues for several years, and
then the gas company discovers a reading error and hits us for a bill for
thousands of dollars?

What is our legal obligation under such a scenario?

I'm guessing that as a practical matter, the issue would be resolved through
negotiated settlement.

Why dont you believe the gas company in that "all is right?" * Some
reason to not trust the gas company? *

I'd say that his visual reading of the meter giving a usage that is 3X
that of the gas company and the gas company being unable to explain it
is reason enough.


If you owe a large sum they
will most likely work it out over a time period to fit your budget
with carrying charges added. *

How about they come looking for the money 5 years from now after 2 of
the 4 units in the building which has one common gas meter for heating
have changed hands? Who's gonna pay then?



With your scenario there may be a class
action law suit. *

I seriously doubt a condo type situation with 4 units qualifies as a
class action lawsuit.



The real trouble begins when you don't pay your gas
bill "in full" when it is due. * I find natural gas a real bargain.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -