Hello all,

I am a newbie to the group, relatively new homeowner of a relatively
old home (late 1800s). I'm not an especially skilled DIY'er, but not
a complete idiot, either. Needless to say, with an old house to
maintain, I learn more every day!

My current issue is a bifold single door that will only open about
halfway. It's not off the track and doesn't visually appear to have
anything wrong, but when I try to fold it open more than about
halfway, it resists and feels sort of "sprung." I can force it back
all the way by pushing on it really hard, but it won't stay. It
doesn't drag or stick, opens smoothly to about halfway. It happened
suddenly -- opened it once and it worked fine, opened it the next time
and it wouldn't open all the way. It feels as if there is something
caught behind it keeping it from opening all the way, but there's
nothing there. It's the kind that hangs from a plastic/nylon roller
in the top track and pivots on the lower corner (no track on the
bottom). I've had a lot of bifold doors before and thought I knew
every way they could go wrong, but this is a new one on me. Any
ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Jo Ann

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 16:19:28 -0800 (PST), Jo Ann
wrote:

Hello all,

I am a newbie to the group, relatively new homeowner of a relatively
old home (late 1800s). I'm not an especially skilled DIY'er, but not
a complete idiot, either. Needless to say, with an old house to
maintain, I learn more every day!

My current issue is a bifold single door that will only open about
halfway. It's not off the track and doesn't visually appear to have
anything wrong, but when I try to fold it open more than about
halfway, it resists and feels sort of "sprung." I can force it back
all the way by pushing on it really hard, but it won't stay. It
doesn't drag or stick, opens smoothly to about halfway. It happened
suddenly -- opened it once and it worked fine, opened it the next time
and it wouldn't open all the way. It feels as if there is something
caught behind it keeping it from opening all the way, but there's
nothing there. It's the kind that hangs from a plastic/nylon roller
in the top track and pivots on the lower corner (no track on the
bottom). I've had a lot of bifold doors before and thought I knew
every way they could go wrong, but this is a new one on me. Any
ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Jo Ann

I would check the roller and see if it's damaged. The "plastic/nylon
roller" can have a piece (think flat tire) broken off and not roll
correctly in the track. Also check that the track is secure and not
moving about, flexing or such.

Perhaps the hole for the roller (drilled in top of the door?) is
"wobbled" out and flexes the roller during movement.

Perhaps a screw holding the track has broken, causing the track to
flex a bit.

Is the door too close to the jamb so it strikes the jamb when you try to
open it The top and bottom adjusts to control this jamb clearance.

"Jo Ann" wrote in message
...
Hello all,

I am a newbie to the group, relatively new homeowner of a relatively
old home (late 1800s). I'm not an especially skilled DIY'er, but not
a complete idiot, either. Needless to say, with an old house to
maintain, I learn more every day!

My current issue is a bifold single door that will only open about
halfway. It's not off the track and doesn't visually appear to have
anything wrong, but when I try to fold it open more than about
halfway, it resists and feels sort of "sprung." I can force it back
all the way by pushing on it really hard, but it won't stay. It
doesn't drag or stick, opens smoothly to about halfway. It happened
suddenly -- opened it once and it worked fine, opened it the next time
and it wouldn't open all the way. It feels as if there is something
caught behind it keeping it from opening all the way, but there's
nothing there. It's the kind that hangs from a plastic/nylon roller
in the top track and pivots on the lower corner (no track on the
bottom). I've had a lot of bifold doors before and thought I knew
every way they could go wrong, but this is a new one on me. Any
ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Jo Ann

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:01:22 -0800, "Pat" wrote:

Is the door too close to the jamb so it strikes the jamb when you try to
open it The top and bottom adjusts to control this jamb clearance.

Agree. The pivot pin at the bottom of the door could has slipped out
of position.

On Dec 26, 7:07*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:01:22 -0800, "Pat" wrote:
Is the door too close to the jamb so it strikes the jamb when you try to
open it *The top and bottom adjusts to control this jamb clearance.

Agree. The pivot pin at the bottom of the door could has slipped out
of position.

Can you tell whether the push-back is coming from the top or bottom,
the door half closest to the wall with the top and bottom pins, or is
it possible that there is some problem with the hinges between the two
halves??

"Jo Ann" wrote in message
...
Hello all,

I am a newbie to the group, relatively new homeowner of a relatively
old home (late 1800s). I'm not an especially skilled DIY'er, but not
a complete idiot, either. Needless to say, with an old house to
maintain, I learn more every day!

My current issue is a bifold single door that will only open about
halfway. It's not off the track and doesn't visually appear to have
anything wrong, but when I try to fold it open more than about
halfway, it resists and feels sort of "sprung." I can force it back
all the way by pushing on it really hard, but it won't stay. It
doesn't drag or stick, opens smoothly to about halfway. It happened
suddenly -- opened it once and it worked fine, opened it the next time
and it wouldn't open all the way. It feels as if there is something
caught behind it keeping it from opening all the way, but there's
nothing there. It's the kind that hangs from a plastic/nylon roller
in the top track and pivots on the lower corner (no track on the
bottom). I've had a lot of bifold doors before and thought I knew
every way they could go wrong, but this is a new one on me. Any
ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Jo Ann

There are several designs to bifolds, so a lot depends on how yours is
built. Mine are attached on a pivot at the 'fixed' jam side, and then have
a single pin that rides in the track at the other side, with a spring in the
track at the open end that puts tension on the door when it is closed to
keep it closed. It sounds like yours is on a closet, so check that there
is nothing like a coat or shirt sleeve that might be getting in the way on
the fixed side of the door when it opens. It might not be obvious once you
have the door open.

If this isn't the case, check the track at the open end to see if there is a
spring and it is working as you'd expect. It could be out of place, or bent
and causing the door to bind when opening if the spring is in a certain
position where as it might not bind if it is positioned slightly
differently. Look in the track to be sure a mounting screw isn't loose and
catching on the door in some way.

Is the floor surface carpeted? Check that the bottom of the door isn't
catching on something.

It has to be something that you can see if you watch closely. Next time it
gets stuck, stop and check it out closely. You should be able to see
something.

On Dec 26, 8:33*pm, "Mark" wrote:
"Jo Ann" wrote in message

...





Hello all,

I am a newbie to the group, relatively new homeowner of a relatively
old home (late 1800s). *I'm not an especially skilled DIY'er, but not
a complete idiot, either. *Needless to say, with an old house to
maintain, I learn more every day!

My current issue is a bifold single door that will only open about
halfway. *It's not off the track and doesn't visually appear to have
anything wrong, but when I try to fold it open more than about
halfway, it resists and feels sort of "sprung." *I can force it back
all the way by pushing on it really hard, but it won't stay. *It
doesn't drag or stick, opens smoothly to about halfway. *It happened
suddenly -- opened it once and it worked fine, opened it the next time
and it wouldn't open all the way. *It feels as if there is something
caught behind it keeping it from opening all the way, but there's
nothing there. *It's the kind that hangs from a plastic/nylon roller
in the top track and pivots on the lower corner (no track on the
bottom). *I've had a lot of bifold doors before and thought I knew
every way they could go wrong, but this is a new one on me. *Any
ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Jo Ann

There are several designs to bifolds, so a lot depends on how yours is
built. *Mine are attached on a pivot at the *'fixed' jam side, and then have
a single pin that rides in the track at the other side, with a spring in the
track at the open end that puts tension on the door when it is closed to
keep it closed. * It sounds like yours is on a closet, so check that there
is nothing like a coat or shirt sleeve that might be getting in the way on
the fixed side of the door when it opens. *It might not be obvious once you
have the door open.

If this isn't the case, check the track at the open end to see if there is a
spring and it is working as you'd expect. *It could be out of place, or bent
and causing the door to bind when opening if the spring is in a certain
position where as it might not bind if it is positioned slightly
differently. *Look in the track to be sure a mounting screw isn't loose and
catching on the door in some way.

Is the floor surface carpeted? *Check that the bottom of the door isn't
catching on something.

It has to be something that you can see if you watch closely. *Next time it
gets stuck, stop and check it out closely. *You should be able to see
something.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Be sure to let us know what you find!

Jo Ann wrote in news:5d370c4f-7d3d-491f-b2c6-
:

Hello all,

I am a newbie to the group, relatively new homeowner of a relatively
old home (late 1800s). I'm not an especially skilled DIY'er, but not
a complete idiot, either. Needless to say, with an old house to
maintain, I learn more every day!

snip

Thanks in advance,
Jo Ann

Late 1800's, wow. I bet that place has a lot of character.

I hope this group can help you get some of your issues resolved. The one
thing to keep in mind throughout is many of the basic principals the we
(I for one) take for granted will not even apply to your home. So, if
someone suggests something to you based on what we see in our mind and
what we said doesn't make sense when you are actually looking at it,
there may be a good reason.

A friend of mine has a house that is like 150 years old and has told me
some stories. Fishing wire for instance is a PITA normally. Try doing it
through an 8x8 or 12x12.

There are people in this NG that have older homes but of course, the
further back you go the fewer number of experienced people who have
actually dealt with it.

Best of luck. You won't run out of things to do I suspect. Then again,
maybe you bought it totaly redone and the only issue that remains is that
door:-)

Just my welcome and .02
Red...

On Dec 26, 9:33*pm, "Mark" wrote:
"Jo Ann" wrote in message

...





Hello all,

I am a newbie to the group, relatively new homeowner of a relatively
old home (late 1800s). *I'm not an especially skilled DIY'er, but not
a complete idiot, either. *Needless to say, with an old house to
maintain, I learn more every day!

My current issue is a bifold single door that will only open about
halfway. *It's not off the track and doesn't visually appear to have
anything wrong, but when I try to fold it open more than about
halfway, it resists and feels sort of "sprung." *I can force it back
all the way by pushing on it really hard, but it won't stay. *It
doesn't drag or stick, opens smoothly to about halfway. *It happened
suddenly -- opened it once and it worked fine, opened it the next time
and it wouldn't open all the way. *It feels as if there is something
caught behind it keeping it from opening all the way, but there's
nothing there. *It's the kind that hangs from a plastic/nylon roller
in the top track and pivots on the lower corner (no track on the
bottom). *I've had a lot of bifold doors before and thought I knew
every way they could go wrong, but this is a new one on me. *Any
ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Jo Ann

There are several designs to bifolds, so a lot depends on how yours is
built. *Mine are attached on a pivot at the *'fixed' jam side, and then have
a single pin that rides in the track at the other side, with a spring in the
track at the open end that puts tension on the door when it is closed to
keep it closed. * It sounds like yours is on a closet, so check that there
is nothing like a coat or shirt sleeve that might be getting in the way on
the fixed side of the door when it opens. *It might not be obvious once you
have the door open.

If this isn't the case, check the track at the open end to see if there is a
spring and it is working as you'd expect. *It could be out of place, or bent
and causing the door to bind when opening if the spring is in a certain
position where as it might not bind if it is positioned slightly
differently. *Look in the track to be sure a mounting screw isn't loose and
catching on the door in some way.

Is the floor surface carpeted? *Check that the bottom of the door isn't
catching on something.

It has to be something that you can see if you watch closely. *Next time it
gets stuck, stop and check it out closely. *You should be able to see
something.

After reading the responses, I thought "These guys are right. It's a
simple design with only a few possibilities, not some sort of
complicated, advanced technology." So, I lifted the door off the
track and discovered -- a sticky-tape lint roller stuck behind it! I
couldn't see it when I examined the partially opened door because it
was stuck right in the middle of the door, right at the V where it's
hinged. I had looked at the shelves and nothing was protruding, had
looked at the floor to see if something had fallen down, but it never
occurred to me that the fallen item had actually attached itself to
the door in the one spot where I couldn't see it with the door partway
open (it's a shallow pantry cupboard, so it wasn't possible to squeeze
in behind far enough to see the back of the door). That's why the
door felt springy when I tried to force it; the roller would compress
(they're only tape and cardboard), but was thick enough to exert
pressure and bounce back when I let go; and, of course, the harder I
pressed, the better it stuck. Anyway, thought I would post this to
say thanks to everyone who encouraged me to examine the door more
closely and also to give everyone a laugh! Thanks for the help!

Jo Ann

On Dec 26, 11:13*pm, Red Green wrote:
Jo Ann wrote in news:5d370c4f-7d3d-491f-b2c6-
:

Hello all,

I am a newbie to the group, relatively new homeowner of a relatively
old home (late 1800s). *I'm not an especially skilled DIY'er, but not
a complete idiot, either. *Needless to say, with an old house to
maintain, I learn more every day!

snip

Thanks in advance,
Jo Ann

Late 1800's, wow. I bet that place has a lot of character.

I hope this group can help you get some of your issues resolved. The one
thing to keep in mind throughout is many of the basic principals the we
(I for one) take for granted will not even apply to your home. So, if
someone suggests something to you based on what we see in our mind and
what we said doesn't make sense when you are actually looking at it,
there may be a good reason.

A friend of mine has a house that is like 150 years old and has told me
some stories. Fishing wire for instance is a PITA normally. Try doing it
through an 8x8 or 12x12.

There are people in this NG that have older homes but of course, the
further back you go the fewer number of experienced people who have
actually dealt with it.

Best of luck. You won't run out of things to do I suspect. Then again,
maybe you bought it totaly redone and the only issue that remains is that
door:-)

Just my welcome and .02
Red...

Thanks for the welcome! Yes, it does have a lot of character, which
keeps me in love with it even when I get frustrated. It's a "folk
Victorian" -- two-story symmetrical design, wrap-around fancy-spindled
porch, beautiful hardwood floors, mostly original Eastlake-style wood
trim (almost all heavily painted, sigh...). A lot of it was redone
before I bought it, some in ways I agree with and some not
(surprising how easy it is to live with the "nots" with so many things
begging for attention, though). It is mostly 12 x 12 construction and
you are SO right about it being a PITA at times. Every time I do
something, I learn more about its original quirks as well as assorted
attempts and errors of repair/remodeling made by many previous
owners. My big project last summer was turning a badly executed 3-
season room remodel back into a screen porch. Biggest ongoing project
is plumbing replacement, ugh. Cast iron, galvanized, copper, plastic
-- anything that's been used for plumbing in 100 years is under my
house somewhere!

But at least my bifold door is working again

Jo Ann

Jo Ann wrote in
:

On Dec 26, 11:13*pm, Red Green wrote:
Jo Ann wrote in news:5d370c4f-7d3d-491f-b2c6-
:

Hello all,

I am a newbie to the group, relatively new homeowner of a
relatively old home (late 1800s). *I'm not an especially skilled
DIY'er, but not a complete idiot, either. *Needless to say, with an
old house to maintain, I learn more every day!

snip

Thanks in advance,
Jo Ann

Late 1800's, wow. I bet that place has a lot of character.

I hope this group can help you get some of your issues resolved. The
one thing to keep in mind throughout is many of the basic principals
the we (I for one) take for granted will not even apply to your home.
So, if someone suggests something to you based on what we see in our
mind and what we said doesn't make sense when you are actually
looking at it, there may be a good reason.

A friend of mine has a house that is like 150 years old and has told
me some stories. Fishing wire for instance is a PITA normally. Try
doing it through an 8x8 or 12x12.

There are people in this NG that have older homes but of course, the
further back you go the fewer number of experienced people who have
actually dealt with it.

Best of luck. You won't run out of things to do I suspect. Then
again, maybe you bought it totaly redone and the only issue that
remains is that door:-)

Just my welcome and .02
Red...

Thanks for the welcome! Yes, it does have a lot of character, which
keeps me in love with it even when I get frustrated. It's a "folk
Victorian" -- two-story symmetrical design, wrap-around fancy-spindled
porch, beautiful hardwood floors, mostly original Eastlake-style wood
trim (almost all heavily painted, sigh...). A lot of it was redone
before I bought it, some in ways I agree with and some not
(surprising how easy it is to live with the "nots" with so many things
begging for attention, though). It is mostly 12 x 12 construction and
you are SO right about it being a PITA at times. Every time I do
something, I learn more about its original quirks as well as assorted
attempts and errors of repair/remodeling made by many previous
owners. My big project last summer was turning a badly executed 3-
season room remodel back into a screen porch. Biggest ongoing project
is plumbing replacement, ugh. Cast iron, galvanized, copper, plastic
-- anything that's been used for plumbing in 100 years is under my
house somewhere!

But at least my bifold door is working again

You're just about done :-)


Jo Ann


There's a story of generations throughout. Piecing it together, right or
wrong, as you are doing projects is kinda neat.

Jo Ann wrote:
Hello all,

I am a newbie to the group, relatively new homeowner of a relatively
old home (late 1800s). I'm not an especially skilled DIY'er, but not
a complete idiot, either. Needless to say, with an old house to
maintain, I learn more every day!

My current issue is a bifold single door that will only open about
halfway. It's not off the track and doesn't visually appear to have
anything wrong, but when I try to fold it open more than about
halfway, it resists and feels sort of "sprung." I can force it back
all the way by pushing on it really hard, but it won't stay. It
doesn't drag or stick, opens smoothly to about halfway. It happened
suddenly -- opened it once and it worked fine, opened it the next time
and it wouldn't open all the way. It feels as if there is something
caught behind it keeping it from opening all the way, but there's
nothing there. It's the kind that hangs from a plastic/nylon roller
in the top track and pivots on the lower corner (no track on the
bottom). I've had a lot of bifold doors before and thought I knew
every way they could go wrong, but this is a new one on me. Any
ideas?

Hi Jo Ann, and welcome to the group. Please don't forget to send your
yearly donation in to keep the servers running, suggested contribution is
$50, which I will put into the treasury for you.

Email me for the address to send the money, and again, welcome to the group.

Jon

On Dec 27, 2:57*am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
Jo Ann wrote:
Hello all,

I am a newbie to the group, relatively new homeowner of a relatively
old home (late 1800s). *I'm not an especially skilled DIY'er, but not
a complete idiot, either. *Needless to say, with an old house to
maintain, I learn more every day!

My current issue is a bifold single door that will only open about
halfway. *It's not off the track and doesn't visually appear to have
anything wrong, but when I try to fold it open more than about
halfway, it resists and feels sort of "sprung." *I can force it back
all the way by pushing on it really hard, but it won't stay. *It
doesn't drag or stick, opens smoothly to about halfway. *It happened
suddenly -- opened it once and it worked fine, opened it the next time
and it wouldn't open all the way. *It feels as if there is something
caught behind it keeping it from opening all the way, but there's
nothing there. *It's the kind that hangs from a plastic/nylon roller
in the top track and pivots on the lower corner (no track on the
bottom). *I've had a lot of bifold doors before and thought I knew
every way they could go wrong, but this is a new one on me. *Any
ideas?

Hi Jo Ann, and welcome to the group. *Please don't forget to send your
yearly donation in to keep the servers running, suggested contribution is
$50, which I will put into the treasury for you.

Email me for the address to send the money, and again, welcome to the group.

Jon

Thanks for the greeting and the donation information, Jon. I'll send
you a Western Union money order right away. In fact, I'll tell you
what -- send me your bank account information and I'll just deposit it
directly, ok?

Jo Ann

On Dec 27, 10:37*am, Jo Ann wrote:
On Dec 27, 2:57*am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:





Jo Ann wrote:
Hello all,

I am a newbie to the group, relatively new homeowner of a relatively
old home (late 1800s). *I'm not an especially skilled DIY'er, but not
a complete idiot, either. *Needless to say, with an old house to
maintain, I learn more every day!

My current issue is a bifold single door that will only open about
halfway. *It's not off the track and doesn't visually appear to have
anything wrong, but when I try to fold it open more than about
halfway, it resists and feels sort of "sprung." *I can force it back
all the way by pushing on it really hard, but it won't stay. *It
doesn't drag or stick, opens smoothly to about halfway. *It happened
suddenly -- opened it once and it worked fine, opened it the next time
and it wouldn't open all the way. *It feels as if there is something
caught behind it keeping it from opening all the way, but there's
nothing there. *It's the kind that hangs from a plastic/nylon roller
in the top track and pivots on the lower corner (no track on the
bottom). *I've had a lot of bifold doors before and thought I knew
every way they could go wrong, but this is a new one on me. *Any
ideas?

Hi Jo Ann, and welcome to the group. *Please don't forget to send your
yearly donation in to keep the servers running, suggested contribution is
$50, which I will put into the treasury for you.

Email me for the address to send the money, and again, welcome to the group.

Jon

Thanks for the greeting and the donation information, Jon. *I'll send
you a Western Union money order right away. *In fact, I'll tell you
what -- send me your bank account information and I'll just deposit it
directly, ok?

Jo Ann- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This group gives lots of free advice, some is worth much more than
what you pay for it, some is worth less than what you pay.G

Jo Ann wrote:

Thanks for the greeting and the donation information, Jon. I'll send
you a Western Union money order right away. In fact, I'll tell you
what -- send me your bank account information and I'll just deposit it
directly, ok?

LOL, an excellent response! :-

Jon

When it comes to a commode- American Standard Cadet.
Anybody disagree?


On Dec 27, 12:03*am, Jo Ann wrote:
season room remodel back into a screen porch. *Biggest ongoing project
is plumbing replacement, ugh. *Cast iron, galvanized, copper, plastic
-- anything that's been used for plumbing in 100 years is under my
house somewhere!

Michael B wrote in news:357ef21d-a4eb-40e1-9714-
:

When it comes to a commode- American Standard Cadet.
Anybody disagree?


On Dec 27, 12:03*am, Jo Ann wrote:
season room remodel back into a screen porch. *Biggest ongoing project
is plumbing replacement, ugh. *Cast iron, galvanized, copper, plastic
-- anything that's been used for plumbing in 100 years is under my
house somewhere!


Might be helpful posted under a new subject.

On Dec 27, 6:26*pm, Michael B wrote:
When it comes to a commode- American Standard Cadet.
Anybody disagree?

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not to the point of replacing fixtures
and so forth yet, other than faucets. So far, I'm just having all the
pipes and water lines replaced. The biggest part of the project will
be replacing the line from the street to the house, which I'm hoping
to put off forever, but which my plumber and my pal who works for DPW
advise will probably need to happen "any time now" (translation: One
of these days you're going to wake up with a lake in your yard.)

I'm also getting ready to tackle the tile on the bathtub walls. Some
of it has come loose, and the grout and caulk around the lower rows
need to be replaced. I'm going to try to do this myself. I'm keeping
my fingers crossed that the wall behind the tile isn't damaged, which
might take me out of my depth pretty quickly. I have a Dremel that
I'm planning to use to get out the old grout, unless you guys would
recommend something else.

Jo Ann

Jo Ann wrote in news:eeb87967-d6da-4072-87b4-
:

On Dec 27, 6:26*pm, Michael B wrote:
When it comes to a commode- American Standard Cadet.
Anybody disagree?

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not to the point of replacing fixtures
and so forth yet, other than faucets. So far, I'm just having all the
pipes and water lines replaced. The biggest part of the project will
be replacing the line from the street to the house, which I'm hoping
to put off forever, but which my plumber and my pal who works for DPW
advise will probably need to happen "any time now" (translation: One
of these days you're going to wake up with a lake in your yard.)

I'm also getting ready to tackle the tile on the bathtub walls. Some
of it has come loose, and the grout and caulk around the lower rows
need to be replaced. I'm going to try to do this myself. I'm keeping
my fingers crossed that the wall behind the tile isn't damaged, which
might take me out of my depth pretty quickly. I have a Dremel that
I'm planning to use to get out the old grout, unless you guys would
recommend something else.

Jo Ann

Disclaimer: Not a tile pro.

What is the grout spacing? If it's like 1/16 inch, keep in mind the each
edge of each tile may have two 1/32 lips (right where the grout goes).
These are made to touch as the tile is laid out giving a 1/16 spacing.
When you start removing grout, be aware you may be cutting into them.

My experience is very old grout can be very hard.
What size are the tiles?

I've never been impressed using a rotory Dremel with a grout bit.

I've used a Roto Zip with a diamond blade. VERY dusty but very fast.

The latest thing is oscillating tools. Made by many manufaturers ranging
from $35 at Harbor Freight to the Fein Multimaster at around $400. Never
used one on grout but they are awesome on wood. The half moon or grout
removal blade allows you to get right into corners.

The different manufactures call them by different names but they are all
known as oscillating tools. They come with changable blades that do
anything from wood plunge cutting, to sanding to scraping. That scraper
blade would probably be a big help getting the old thinset off the wall
as well as the tile backs of the loose tiles you're going to reuse.