I just installed a new pre-hung door in the upstairs bedroom I am
remodeling. I've got it in nice and level and square and it works
great.

My trouble is that at the bottom of the door the door jamb will be
just even with the drywall but the top of the jamb is even with the
wall frame. The only thing I can figure is that I need to take a long
piece of 1/2 x 1/2 and cut it into a long wedge and install it on the
door jamb to make the whole thing about even with the drywall.

Is this the way it is done or is there something easier?

Thanks, David

On Dec 18, 10:08*pm, hibb wrote:
I just installed a new pre-hung door in the upstairs bedroom I am
remodeling. I've got it in nice and level and square and it works
great.

My trouble is that at the bottom of the door the door jamb will be
just even with the drywall but the top of the jamb is even with the
wall frame. The only thing I can figure is that I need to take a long
piece of 1/2 x 1/2 and cut it into a long wedge and install it on the
door jamb to make the whole thing about even with the drywall.

Is this the way it is done or is there something easier?

Thanks, David

Obviously your wall is not level. In this situation I would try and
compromise by "splitting the difference" by making your door and the
top frame almost even and at the same time push in the bottom of the
door jamb. Of course that would mean you door would be off level, or
you could shim up the jamb like you suggested.

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:16:23 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:

On Dec 18, 10:08*pm, hibb wrote:
I just installed a new pre-hung door in the upstairs bedroom I am
remodeling. I've got it in nice and level and square and it works
great.

My trouble is that at the bottom of the door the door jamb will be
just even with the drywall but the top of the jamb is even with the
wall frame. The only thing I can figure is that I need to take a long
piece of 1/2 x 1/2 and cut it into a long wedge and install it on the
door jamb to make the whole thing about even with the drywall.

Is this the way it is done or is there something easier?

Thanks, David

Obviously your wall is not level. In this situation I would try and
compromise by "splitting the difference" by making your door and the
top frame almost even and at the same time push in the bottom of the
door jamb. Of course that would mean you door would be off level, or
you could shim up the jamb like you suggested.

Something is "cockeyed". The RO, the door jamb or the wall.

*appearing to be physically or logically abnormal, absurd, etc.

A recent thread mentioned a "string test" to check for plumb..

On Dec 18, 10:30*pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:16:23 -0800 (PST), Mikepier



wrote:
On Dec 18, 10:08 pm, hibb wrote:
I just installed a new pre-hung door in the upstairs bedroom I am
remodeling. I've got it in nice and level and square and it works
great.

My trouble is that at the bottom of the door the door jamb will be
just even with the drywall but the top of the jamb is even with the
wall frame. The only thing I can figure is that I need to take a long
piece of 1/2 x 1/2 and cut it into a long wedge and install it on the
door jamb to make the whole thing about even with the drywall.

Is this the way it is done or is there something easier?

Thanks, David

Obviously your wall is not level. In this situation I would try and
compromise by "splitting the difference" by making your door and the
top frame almost even and at the same time push in the bottom of the
door jamb. Of course that would mean you door would be off level, or
you could shim up the jamb like you suggested.

Something is "cockeyed". The RO, the door jamb or the wall.

*appearing to be physically or logically abnormal, absurd, etc.

A recent thread mentioned a "string test" *to check for plumb..

The wall is part of the old house built in 1910 and now the inside
wall of an upstairs bedroom that was added on around 1948. Looks like
the wall is about a half inch farther into the room at the top of the
door than at the bottom.

I've only installed the door with a few nails and left them so I can
easily pull them back out if I need too. And I haven't installed the
drywall on that wall yet so, if it is what I should do, I could remove
the door and plumb the wall before I continue with the drywalling.

David

On Dec 19, 12:13*am, hibb wrote:
On Dec 18, 10:30*pm, Oren wrote:



On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:16:23 -0800 (PST), Mikepier

wrote:
On Dec 18, 10:08 pm, hibb wrote:
I just installed a new pre-hung door in the upstairs bedroom I am
remodeling. I've got it in nice and level and square and it works
great.

My trouble is that at the bottom of the door the door jamb will be
just even with the drywall but the top of the jamb is even with the
wall frame. The only thing I can figure is that I need to take a long
piece of 1/2 x 1/2 and cut it into a long wedge and install it on the
door jamb to make the whole thing about even with the drywall.

Is this the way it is done or is there something easier?

Thanks, David

Obviously your wall is not level. In this situation I would try and
compromise by "splitting the difference" by making your door and the
top frame almost even and at the same time push in the bottom of the
door jamb. Of course that would mean you door would be off level, or
you could shim up the jamb like you suggested.

Something is "cockeyed". The RO, the door jamb or the wall.

*appearing to be physically or logically abnormal, absurd, etc.

A recent thread mentioned a "string test" *to check for plumb..

The wall is part of the old house built in 1910 and now the inside
wall of an upstairs bedroom that was added on around 1948. Looks like
the wall is about a half inch farther into the room at the top of the
door than at the bottom.

I've only installed the door with a few nails and left them so I can
easily pull them back out if I need too. And I haven't installed the
drywall on that wall yet so, if it is what I should do, I could remove
the door and plumb the wall before I continue with the drywalling.

David

Here's what the instructions for my ThermaTry entry door say.

I'm guessing that your opening would fail this test.

http://www.thermatru.com/pdfs/instal...nstruction.pdf


*** Begin Stolen Text ***

Check to be sure the framing walls around the opening are in the same
plane. Do this by performing a “string test” for plumb.

String Test for Plumb: Attach a string diagonally across the opening
from the outside, as shown. The string(s) should gently touch in the
center, if not the opening is “out of plumb” by twice that distance
and needs to be corrected. Flip the string over itself to check both
planes. Fix any problems now.

An “out of plumb” condition is one of the most common reasons door
units leak air and water.

*** End Stolen Text ***

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:13:29 -0800 (PST), hibb
wrote:

On Dec 18, 10:30*pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:16:23 -0800 (PST), Mikepier



wrote:
On Dec 18, 10:08 pm, hibb wrote:
I just installed a new pre-hung door in the upstairs bedroom I am
remodeling. I've got it in nice and level and square and it works
great.

My trouble is that at the bottom of the door the door jamb will be
just even with the drywall but the top of the jamb is even with the
wall frame. The only thing I can figure is that I need to take a long
piece of 1/2 x 1/2 and cut it into a long wedge and install it on the
door jamb to make the whole thing about even with the drywall.

Is this the way it is done or is there something easier?

Thanks, David

Obviously your wall is not level. In this situation I would try and
compromise by "splitting the difference" by making your door and the
top frame almost even and at the same time push in the bottom of the
door jamb. Of course that would mean you door would be off level, or
you could shim up the jamb like you suggested.

Something is "cockeyed". The RO, the door jamb or the wall.

*appearing to be physically or logically abnormal, absurd, etc.

A recent thread mentioned a "string test" *to check for plumb..

The wall is part of the old house built in 1910 and now the inside
wall of an upstairs bedroom that was added on around 1948. Looks like
the wall is about a half inch farther into the room at the top of the
door than at the bottom.

I've only installed the door with a few nails and left them so I can
easily pull them back out if I need too. And I haven't installed the
drywall on that wall yet so, if it is what I should do, I could remove
the door and plumb the wall before I continue with the drywalling.

David

I don't know your proper answer. I have seem "shave and shim" of wall
studs. using a long level (checking plane), power wood planer, the
studs were shaved down a bit - low spots where shimmed with a shim
(dense cardboard) found at various stores. The are thin, 2 inch wide
and 4 foot long. Stapled on the stud.

Shave and shim here is used on tall walls to take out imperfection and
the wall will not show them (as much).

(BTW, posting from Goggle will prevent many posters from seeing your
posts as they filter them out, due to spam.)

Oren wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:13:29 -0800 (PST), hibb
wrote:

On Dec 18, 10:30 pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:16:23 -0800 (PST), Mikepier



wrote:
On Dec 18, 10:08 pm, hibb wrote:
I just installed a new pre-hung door in the upstairs bedroom
I am remodeling. I've got it in nice and level and square and
it works great.

My trouble is that at the bottom of the door the door jamb
will be just even with the drywall but the top of the jamb is
even with the wall frame. The only thing I can figure is that
I need to take a long piece of 1/2 x 1/2 and cut it into a
long wedge and install it on the door jamb to make the whole
thing about even with the drywall.

Is this the way it is done or is there something easier?

Thanks, David

Obviously your wall is not level. In this situation I would try
and compromise by "splitting the difference" by making your
door and the top frame almost even and at the same time push in
the bottom of the door jamb. Of course that would mean you door
would be off level, or you could shim up the jamb like you
suggested.

Something is "cockeyed". The RO, the door jamb or the wall.

*appearing to be physically or logically abnormal, absurd, etc.

A recent thread mentioned a "string test" to check for plumb..

The wall is part of the old house built in 1910 and now the inside
wall of an upstairs bedroom that was added on around 1948. Looks
like the wall is about a half inch farther into the room at the top
of the door than at the bottom.

I've only installed the door with a few nails and left them so I can
easily pull them back out if I need too. And I haven't installed the
drywall on that wall yet so, if it is what I should do, I could
remove the door and plumb the wall before I continue with the
drywalling.

David

I don't know your proper answer. I have seem "shave and shim" of wall
studs. using a long level (checking plane), power wood planer, the
studs were shaved down a bit - low spots where shimmed with a shim
(dense cardboard) found at various stores. The are thin, 2 inch wide
and 4 foot long. Stapled on the stud.

Shave and shim here is used on tall walls to take out imperfection and
the wall will not show them (as much).

(BTW, posting from Goggle will prevent many posters from seeing your
posts as they filter them out, due to spam.)

Agreed, this is the way to do it, although your wall may need something much
thicker than cardboard. If you have scraps of various thicknesses of plywood
you could use them to build up a level surface and if you have a table saw
you could cut some various thicknesses of shims or even a long tapered
shim -- I have just done a combination of both methods on a wall that was
not perfectly plumb.

I remodeled a room that originally had plaster. When I checked the studs
they were over 1/4" out of flat in both directions. I got sheets of 1/4" and
1/8" hardboard from Home Depot. I ripped them into 1 1/2" strips and then
went to work flattening the walls. I never got them perfect, but I was able
to get them flat enough to hand drywall without noticable warping.

Bernie

"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...
Oren wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:13:29 -0800 (PST), hibb
wrote:

On Dec 18, 10:30 pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:16:23 -0800 (PST), Mikepier



wrote:
On Dec 18, 10:08 pm, hibb wrote:
I just installed a new pre-hung door in the upstairs bedroom
I am remodeling. I've got it in nice and level and square and
it works great.

My trouble is that at the bottom of the door the door jamb
will be just even with the drywall but the top of the jamb is
even with the wall frame. The only thing I can figure is that
I need to take a long piece of 1/2 x 1/2 and cut it into a
long wedge and install it on the door jamb to make the whole
thing about even with the drywall.

Is this the way it is done or is there something easier?

Thanks, David

Obviously your wall is not level. In this situation I would try
and compromise by "splitting the difference" by making your
door and the top frame almost even and at the same time push in
the bottom of the door jamb. Of course that would mean you door
would be off level, or you could shim up the jamb like you
suggested.

Something is "cockeyed". The RO, the door jamb or the wall.

*appearing to be physically or logically abnormal, absurd, etc.

A recent thread mentioned a "string test" to check for plumb..

The wall is part of the old house built in 1910 and now the inside
wall of an upstairs bedroom that was added on around 1948. Looks
like the wall is about a half inch farther into the room at the top
of the door than at the bottom.

I've only installed the door with a few nails and left them so I can
easily pull them back out if I need too. And I haven't installed the
drywall on that wall yet so, if it is what I should do, I could
remove the door and plumb the wall before I continue with the
drywalling.

David

I don't know your proper answer. I have seem "shave and shim" of wall
studs. using a long level (checking plane), power wood planer, the
studs were shaved down a bit - low spots where shimmed with a shim
(dense cardboard) found at various stores. The are thin, 2 inch wide
and 4 foot long. Stapled on the stud.

Shave and shim here is used on tall walls to take out imperfection and
the wall will not show them (as much).

(BTW, posting from Goggle will prevent many posters from seeing your
posts as they filter them out, due to spam.)

Agreed, this is the way to do it, although your wall may need something
much thicker than cardboard. If you have scraps of various thicknesses of
plywood you could use them to build up a level surface and if you have a
table saw you could cut some various thicknesses of shims or even a long
tapered shim -- I have just done a combination of both methods on a wall
that was not perfectly plumb.

clipped

(BTW, posting from Goggle will prevent many posters from seeing your
posts as they filter them out, due to spam.)


I don't filter any messages, although Earthlink might (they do a great
job of filtering spam email)....I just don't get much spam at all, and
have noticed almost none on the ng (other than our stucco friend).

"hibb" wrote

My trouble is that at the bottom of the door the door jamb will be
just even with the drywall but the top of the jamb is even with the
wall frame. The only thing I can figure is that I need to take a long
piece of 1/2 x 1/2 and cut it into a long wedge and install it on the
door jamb to make the whole thing about even with the drywall.

Here you seem to have a side to side fit issue.

about a half inch farther into the room at the top of the
door than at the bottom.

And here it seems to have 'front to back' issues.

I've only installed the door with a few nails and left them so I can
easily pull them back out if I need too. And I haven't installed the
drywall on that wall yet so, if it is what I should do, I could remove
the door and plumb the wall before I continue with the drywalling.

Thats good.

As OP said, this is a plumb-bob string test classic. Relax, this one is
easy.

Get a nice long bit of string or yarn. Longer than the door. Tie a weight
to the bottom (a couple of bolts, or some metal washers, anything that won't
be to heavy for you to tape the string up and hold, yet heavy enough to hold
the string straight. I prefer a bright contrasting yarn as it's easier to
see against the door jam etc.

Next you want some duct tape or masking tape and a piece of chalk. If your
wife sews, she'll have 'pattern markers' for cloth. Perfect for the job.

Suspend string from at least 3 spots along the top of the jam and mark the
floor where they hit. Draw a line across that using a yardstick. If the
door frame is set partway into the room at the top, it will be real obvious
as the line will fall inside the room. It may even be unevenly inside the
room. This can cause issues with opening the door (angled a bit, may drag
floor, normal fix is trim bottom of door carefully with a hand lathe). As
to the side to side issue, the string hung at the very corners will show
this. If you have to inch it in at the top to get it to hit dead on at the
bottom, shim the top til plumb.

Grin, one of those jobs actually easier with a bit of string than a level!

On Dec 18, 9:30*pm, Oren wrote:

snip

A recent thread mentioned a "string test" *to check for plumb.

Doesn't that check just for parallel, not plumb?

Joe

On Dec 19, 11:50*am, "cshenk" wrote:

snip

Grin, one of those jobs actually easier with a bit of string than a level!

I make it even quicker and easier with a PLS 5 laser. But I still
can't help not doing a string test anyway, just to make sure.

Joe

Joe wrote:
On Dec 18, 9:30 pm, Oren wrote:

snip

A recent thread mentioned a "string test" to check for plumb.

Doesn't that check just for parallel, not plumb?

Joe

"Plumb" means true vertical....the door frame sounds as if it is out of
plumb, front to back (or is it the wall itself?). Parallel means two
lines are equidistant from each other and can run any direction. The
two sides of the frame can easily be parallel but "out of plumb".

On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:48:00 -0500, "
wrote:

Joe wrote:
On Dec 18, 9:30 pm, Oren wrote:

snip

A recent thread mentioned a "string test" to check for plumb.

Doesn't that check just for parallel, not plumb?

Joe

"Plumb" means true vertical....the door frame sounds as if it is out of
plumb, front to back (or is it the wall itself?). Parallel means two
lines are equidistant from each other and can run any direction. The
two sides of the frame can easily be parallel but "out of plumb".

I hadn't seen or heard about the string test for plumb 9for doors),
until Derby mentioned it some threads back. That test was peculiar to
his door install instructions. I learned something from the simple
test in the pdf file he posted.

The wall could be parallel to the tree outside, but not plumb.

Notice a level doesn't have a parallel bubble in it ...

On Dec 19, 12:50*pm, "cshenk" wrote:
"hibb" wrote

My trouble is that at the bottom of the door the door jamb will be
just even with the drywall but the top of the jamb is even with the
wall frame. The only thing I can figure is that I need to take a long
piece of 1/2 x 1/2 and cut it into a long wedge and install it on the
door jamb to make the whole thing about even with the drywall.

Here you seem to have a side to side fit issue.

about a half inch farther into the room at the top of the
door than at the bottom.

And here it seems to have 'front to back' issues.

I've only installed the door with a few nails and left them so I can
easily pull them back out if I need too. And I haven't installed the
drywall on that wall yet so, if it is what I should do, I could remove
the door and plumb the wall before I continue with the drywalling.

Thats good.

As OP said, this is a plumb-bob string test classic. *Relax, this one is
easy.

Get a nice long bit of string or yarn. *Longer than the door. *Tie a weight
to the bottom (a couple of bolts, or some metal washers, anything that won't
be to heavy for you to tape the string up and hold, yet heavy enough to hold
the string straight. *I prefer a bright contrasting yarn as it's easier to
see against the door jam etc.

Next you want some duct tape or masking tape and a piece of chalk. *If your
wife sews, she'll have 'pattern markers' for cloth. *Perfect for the job.

Suspend string from at least 3 spots along the top of the jam and mark the
floor where they hit. *Draw a line across that using a yardstick. *If the
door frame is set partway into the room at the top, it will be real obvious
as the line will fall inside the room. *It may even be unevenly inside the
room. *This can cause issues with opening the door (angled a bit, may drag
floor, normal fix is trim bottom of door carefully with a hand lathe). *As
to the side to side issue, the string hung at the very corners will show
this. *If you have to inch it in at the top to get it to hit dead on at the
bottom, shim the top til plumb.

Grin, one of those jobs actually easier with a bit of string than a level!

Thanks for helping.

I did the string test on the door and the top of the door does lean
slightly in but correcting that only makes the problem of trimming
around the door worse.

I did the string test on the wall on each side of the door where the
trim would attach and the weight on the end of the string hits the
floor about an inch away from the wall on both sides. And it is about
the same all the way to the corners of the room.

Looks like I need to plum that wall and then make adjustments to the
door installation.

David

"hibb" wrote in message
...
On Dec 18, 10:30 pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:16:23 -0800 (PST), Mikepier



wrote:
On Dec 18, 10:08 pm, hibb wrote:
I just installed a new pre-hung door in the upstairs bedroom I am
remodeling. I've got it in nice and level and square and it works
great.

My trouble is that at the bottom of the door the door jamb will be
just even with the drywall but the top of the jamb is even with the
wall frame. The only thing I can figure is that I need to take a long
piece of 1/2 x 1/2 and cut it into a long wedge and install it on the
door jamb to make the whole thing about even with the drywall.

Is this the way it is done or is there something easier?

Thanks, David

Obviously your wall is not level. In this situation I would try and
compromise by "splitting the difference" by making your door and the
top frame almost even and at the same time push in the bottom of the
door jamb. Of course that would mean you door would be off level, or
you could shim up the jamb like you suggested.

Something is "cockeyed". The RO, the door jamb or the wall.

*appearing to be physically or logically abnormal, absurd, etc.

A recent thread mentioned a "string test" to check for plumb..

The wall is part of the old house built in 1910 and now the inside
wall of an upstairs bedroom that was added on around 1948. Looks like
the wall is about a half inch farther into the room at the top of the
door than at the bottom.

I've only installed the door with a few nails and left them so I can
easily pull them back out if I need too. And I haven't installed the
drywall on that wall yet so, if it is what I should do, I could remove
the door and plumb the wall before I continue with the drywalling.

David

Since it sounds like your wall is finished and it is too late to shim the
wall to make it plumb, your best bet is to scribe the edge of door jam where
it exends past the finished wall, then remove teh door, disassemble the
entire frame and cut it along your scribe lines. reassemble the frame and
reinstall. The 'wedges' cut from one side should be what you need to fill
the gaps on the oposite side.

On Dec 19, 10:06*pm, "Mark" wrote:
"hibb" wrote in message

...
On Dec 18, 10:30 pm, Oren wrote:



On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:16:23 -0800 (PST), Mikepier

wrote:
On Dec 18, 10:08 pm, hibb wrote:
I just installed a new pre-hung door in the upstairs bedroom I am
remodeling. I've got it in nice and level and square and it works
great.

My trouble is that at the bottom of the door the door jamb will be
just even with the drywall but the top of the jamb is even with the
wall frame. The only thing I can figure is that I need to take a long
piece of 1/2 x 1/2 and cut it into a long wedge and install it on the
door jamb to make the whole thing about even with the drywall.

Is this the way it is done or is there something easier?

Thanks, David

Obviously your wall is not level. In this situation I would try and
compromise by "splitting the difference" by making your door and the
top frame almost even and at the same time push in the bottom of the
door jamb. Of course that would mean you door would be off level, or
you could shim up the jamb like you suggested.

Something is "cockeyed". The RO, the door jamb or the wall.

*appearing to be physically or logically abnormal, absurd, etc.

A recent thread mentioned a "string test" to check for plumb..

The wall is part of the old house built in 1910 and now the inside
wall of an upstairs bedroom that was added on around 1948. Looks like
the wall is about a half inch farther into the room at the top of the
door than at the bottom.

I've only installed the door with a few nails and left them so I can
easily pull them back out if I need too. And I haven't installed the
drywall on that wall yet so, if it is what I should do, I could remove
the door and plumb the wall before I continue with the drywalling.

David

Since it sounds like your wall is finished and it is too late to shim the
wall to make it plumb, your best bet is to scribe the edge of door jam where
it exends past the finished wall, then remove teh door, disassemble the
entire frame and cut it along your scribe lines. *reassemble the frame and
reinstall. * The 'wedges' cut from one side should be what you need to fill
the gaps on the oposite side.

Thanks Mark. But I haven't finished that wall yet. I am now looking at
probably shimming the wall to make it plumb. I need to figure out the
best way to do that.

"hibb" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:


drywall on that wall yet so, if it is what I should do, I could remove
the door and plumb the wall before I continue with the drywalling.

As OP said, this is a plumb-bob string test classic. Relax, this one is
easy.

(snips instructions)

door frame is set partway into the room at the top, it will be real
obvious
as the line will fall inside the room. It may even be unevenly inside the
room. This can cause issues with opening the door (angled a bit, may drag
floor, normal fix is trim bottom of door carefully with a hand lathe). As
to the side to side issue, the string hung at the very corners will show
this. If you have to inch it in at the top to get it to hit dead on at
the
bottom, shim the top til plumb.

Thanks for helping.

Welcome!

I did the string test on the door and the top of the door does lean
slightly in but correcting that only makes the problem of trimming
around the door worse.

I did the string test on the wall on each side of the door where the
trim would attach and the weight on the end of the string hits the
floor about an inch away from the wall on both sides. And it is about
the same all the way to the corners of the room.

Got it. Someone tried to even up the door frame already on the uneven wall.
Both lean a bit, wall more so.

String and weight fall about 1 inch inward inside the room, a bit less so at
the door frame. If so, shim at bottom of doorframe slanting thinner
upwards.

Looks like I need to plum that wall and then make adjustments to the
door installation.

Actually, I'd stick to the door frame. Shim it out at the bottom. The door
will be a bit 'into the room' but you can use pretty molding to virtually
cover it. You can even do a partial job then use a hand lathe to sliver at
an angle, off bits of the bottom of the door so it sweeps in without hitting
the floor (your angled wall will make that happen unless you can flip the
door to swing outwards to what I presume is a hall in which case it will
swing closed automatically forever).

You want to make the door a bit like / at the bottom with a hand lathe. You
know, the thing with a blade that is long and flat and curles off small
slivers of wood? Angle the bottom off so it swings open without hitting the
floor.

hibb wrote the following:
I just installed a new pre-hung door in the upstairs bedroom I am
remodeling. I've got it in nice and level and square and it works
great.

My trouble is that at the bottom of the door the door jamb will be
just even with the drywall but the top of the jamb is even with the
wall frame. The only thing I can figure is that I need to take a long
piece of 1/2 x 1/2 and cut it into a long wedge and install it on the
door jamb to make the whole thing about even with the drywall.

Is this the way it is done or is there something easier?

Thanks, David

An old carpenter told me, if something is level and plumb, but looks
wrong, make it look right, regardless of plumb and level..

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
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