This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

"gwandsh" wrote in message
...
This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.


There is no prime on a deep well submersible to be concerned about. I can't
imagine anything that you could have done to cause a problem, but I would
check at the well control box to see that you have 240 volts to that point.
Sometimes there are splices made under the sanitary cap of the well head.
Check and be sure that they are all tight as well.

On Oct 12, 6:21*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"gwandsh" wrote in message

...





This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. *Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. *Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. *However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. *When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. *I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. *Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? *I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

There is no prime on a deep well submersible to be concerned about. I can't
imagine anything that you could have done to cause a problem, but I would
check at the well control box to see that you have 240 volts to that point.

gwandsh wrote:

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

You can hear a pump at 300' deep humming?? Good ears

1. Check the pressure switch. Zero pressure means the switch isn't doing
its job in some manner.

2. The pressure switch probably goes to a relay. Relays generally have a
manual start button, often on the bottom exterior of the case. Does pushing
it start the pump and deliver water? If not, have the start capacitor
inside the case replaced. If pushing it starts the pump and the zero
pressure re-occurs, the start capacitor is flaky...have it replaced. The
one I just had replaced yesterday cost $35 + the service call..

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Oct 13, 7:55*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
gwandsh wrote:
The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. *However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. *When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

You can hear a pump at 300' deep humming?? *Good ears *

1. Check the pressure switch. *Zero pressure means the switch isn't doing
its job in some manner.


How is that remarkable deduction made? It would seem to the rest of
us that there are many possibilities besides the pressure switch.






2. The pressure switch probably goes to a relay. *Relays generally have a
manual start button, often on the bottom exterior of the case. *Does pushing
it start the pump and deliver water? *If not, have the start capacitor
inside the case replaced. *If pushing it starts the pump and the zero
pressure re-occurs, the start capacitor is flaky...have it replaced. *The
one I just had replaced yesterday cost $35 + the service call..

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:55 am, "dadiOH" wrote:
gwandsh wrote:
The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

You can hear a pump at 300' deep humming?? Good ears

1. Check the pressure switch. Zero pressure means the switch isn't
doing its job in some manner.


How is that remarkable deduction made? It would seem to the rest of
us that there are many possibilities besides the pressure switch.

Did I say there weren't? Do as you like, I prefer to start with the simple
and eliminate.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

wrote in message

On Oct 13, 7:55 am, "dadiOH" wrote:
gwandsh wrote:
The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

You can hear a pump at 300' deep humming?? Good ears

1. Check the pressure switch. Zero pressure means the switch isn't
doing its job in some manner.


How is that remarkable deduction made? It would seem to the rest of
us that there are many possibilities besides the pressure switch.






2. The pressure switch probably goes to a relay. Relays generally
have a manual start button, often on the bottom exterior of the
case. Does pushing it start the pump and deliver water? If not, have
the start capacitor inside the case replaced. If pushing it starts
the pump and the zero pressure re-occurs, the start capacitor is
flaky...have it replaced. The one I just had replaced yesterday cost
$35 + the service call..

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

That would at least, be an elimination of many things if the pump fired
up. Meaning everything from the cap to, not including, the footer check
valve is OK. Looks to me like the quickest route will be to call in a
pro.

On Oct 13, 9:53*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:55 am, "dadiOH" wrote:
gwandsh wrote:
The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

You can hear a pump at 300' deep humming?? Good ears

1. Check the pressure switch. Zero pressure means the switch isn't
doing its job in some manner.

How is that remarkable deduction made? * It would seem to the rest of
us that there are many possibilities besides the pressure switch.

Did I say there weren't?

Yes, that's what your statement implied:

"1. Check the pressure switch. Zero pressure means the switch isn't
doing its job in some manner."

Zero pressure could obviously be due to lots of causes other than the
pressure switch.









*Do as you like, I prefer to start with the simple
and eliminate.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Oct 13, 1:38*pm, "Twayne" wrote:
wrote in message







On Oct 13, 7:55 am, "dadiOH" wrote:
gwandsh wrote:
The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

You can hear a pump at 300' deep humming?? Good ears

1. Check the pressure switch. Zero pressure means the switch isn't
doing its job in some manner.

How is that remarkable deduction made? * It would seem to the rest of
us that there are many possibilities besides the pressure switch.

2. The pressure switch probably goes to a relay. Relays generally
have a manual start button, often on the bottom exterior of the
case. Does pushing it start the pump and deliver water? If not, have
the start capacitor inside the case replaced. If pushing it starts
the pump and the zero pressure re-occurs, the start capacitor is
flaky...have it replaced. The one I just had replaced yesterday cost
$35 + the service call..

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

That would at least, be an elimination of many things if the pump fired
up. *Meaning everything from the cap to, not including, the footer check
valve is OK. *Looks to me like the quickest route will be to call in a
pro.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Except the guy clearly said he can hear humming from the pump at the
well head and other noises coming from down the well when the pump is
turned on.

I wonder if something could have been corroded but still working, like
a fitting at the pump, etc and possibly the corroded material was
barely keeping it intact and the chorine attacked it enough that it
failed?

But I agree, the first thing I would do is verify that 240V is present
at the well head. After that, not much else to do but pull the pump.

I hope we hear back what the problem was.

On Oct 13, 2:35*pm, wrote:
On Oct 13, 1:38*pm, "Twayne" wrote:





wrote in message



On Oct 13, 7:55 am, "dadiOH" wrote:
gwandsh wrote:
The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

You can hear a pump at 300' deep humming?? Good ears

1. Check the pressure switch. Zero pressure means the switch isn't
doing its job in some manner.

How is that remarkable deduction made? * It would seem to the rest of
us that there are many possibilities besides the pressure switch.

2. The pressure switch probably goes to a relay. Relays generally
have a manual start button, often on the bottom exterior of the
case. Does pushing it start the pump and deliver water? If not, have
the start capacitor inside the case replaced. If pushing it starts
the pump and the zero pressure re-occurs, the start capacitor is
flaky...have it replaced. The one I just had replaced yesterday cost
$35 + the service call..

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

That would at least, be an elimination of many things if the pump fired
up. *Meaning everything from the cap to, not including, the footer check
valve is OK. *Looks to me like the quickest route will be to call in a
pro.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Except the guy clearly said he can hear humming from the pump at the
well head and other noises coming from down the well when the pump is
turned on.

I wonder if something could have been corroded but still working, like
a fitting at the pump, etc and possibly the corroded material was
barely keeping it intact and the chorine attacked it enough that it
failed?

But I agree, the first thing I would do is verify that 240V is present
at the well head. *After that, not much else to do but pull the pump.


BTW, that assumes he has a 2 wire pump, ie 2 hot wires and one
ground. If he has a 3 wire pump, one ground, then there is a
seperate controller that contains the starting capacitor and activates
power to the start wire briefly first, then the regular run wire.
So, in that case, it's more complex to diagnose and the controller
could be bad too. Which might account for the hum but no go.

gwandsh wrote:
This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

When my pressure drops to zero during something like a power failure, I
need to shut off valve to house, past pressure tank, to turn back on as
pump needs a pressure head to pump against otherwise low pressure turns
it off. Even then, I need to hold switch a few seconds to develop the head.

On Oct 13, 4:55*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
gwandsh wrote:
The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. *However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. *When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

You can hear a pump at 300' deep humming?? *Good ears *

1. Check the pressure switch. *Zero pressure means the switch isn't doing
its job in some manner.

2. The pressure switch probably goes to a relay. *Relays generally have a
manual start button, often on the bottom exterior of the case. *Does pushing
it start the pump and deliver water? *If not, have the start capacitor
inside the case replaced. *If pushing it starts the pump and the zero
pressure re-occurs, the start capacitor is flaky...have it replaced. *The
one I just had replaced yesterday cost $35 + the service call..

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Hear a pump at 300 ft? Why not, I am about 200 ft from my well and I
can hear it through the pipes in the basement. That has warned me
several times of water running when it shouldn't be.

Harry K

On Oct 13, 12:50*pm, Frank wrote:
gwandsh wrote:
This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. *Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. *Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. *However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. *When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. *I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. *Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? *I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

When my pressure drops to zero during something like a power failure, I
need to shut off valve to house, past pressure tank, to turn back on as
pump needs a pressure head to pump against otherwise low pressure turns
it off. *Even then, I need to hold switch a few seconds to develop the head.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A couple things not mentioned.

1. zero pressue will show with pump off and bladder blocking outlet
of the tank.

2. Extremely unlikely but the same symptoms would show if the well
had run dry .

Harry K

Why has nobody stated the obvious?

This person pumped a whole bunch of water with a well pump that "ran
fine for years and years."

The pump is old, and was on its last legs. Now it's shot, and needs to
be replaced.

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:50:46 -0400, Frank wrote:
When my pressure drops to zero during something like a power failure, I
need to shut off valve to house, past pressure tank, to turn back on as
pump needs a pressure head to pump against otherwise low pressure turns
it off.

For ours, I believe the pump body needs to be opened (there's a cap on
top) and the pump manually topped off with water if it ever runs dry -
running it once it's bled down not only results in no water flow, but
apparently also trashes the seals in the pump (or so the manufacturers
claim).

I missed the start of this thread - not sure if the 'hum' the OP mentions
means they think the pump motor *is* running, or if they mean (as someone
else mentioned) that they're hearing the hum of the motor trying to start
but failing (possibly because there's a start capacitor that's shot)

I'm not at all familiar with wells where the pump's right at the well head
(ours is a jet pump, with the motor/pump some distance from the head) but
maybe it's possible to confirm whether the motor *is* turning (and/or try
turning it by hand to make sure the pump's not jammed)?

cheers

Jules

On Oct 13, 4:33*pm, Jules
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:50:46 -0400, Frank wrote:
When my pressure drops to zero during something like a power failure, I
need to shut off valve to house, past pressure tank, to turn back on as
pump needs a pressure head to pump against otherwise low pressure turns
it off.

For ours, I believe the pump body needs to be opened (there's a cap on
top) and the pump manually topped off with water if it ever runs dry -
running it once it's bled down not only results in no water flow, but
apparently also trashes the seals in the pump (or so the manufacturers
claim).

I missed the start of this thread - not sure if the 'hum' the OP mentions
means they think the pump motor *is* running, or if they mean (as someone
else mentioned) that they're hearing the hum of the motor trying to start
but failing (possibly because there's a start capacitor that's shot)

I'm not at all familiar with wells where the pump's right at the well head


It's not at the well head. It's a submersible 300 ft down the well.





(ours is a jet pump, with the motor/pump some distance from the head) but
maybe it's possible to confirm whether the motor *is* turning (and/or try
turning it by hand to make sure the pump's not jammed)?

cheers

Jules

On Oct 12, 3:10*pm, gwandsh wrote:
This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. *Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. *Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. *However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. *When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. *I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. *Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? *I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

Thanks all for the good input. I appreciate knowing something about
the possibilities when I finally reach the well contractor. I have a
couple of calls in to him, but it is a small town rural area and he
doesn't seem to be getting his calls. Possibly he has gone hunting
and did not leave an "out of office" message. It is a weekend place,
so service calls mean time off work, yada yada.

To clarify a few items:

1 - I first suspected the mechainical relay in the pressure switch. I
opened the box and cleaned the contacts. They seem to be working
fine, at least they are getting the pump turned on.

2 - I did check the power at the well head. I did not have a voltage
meter, but used a simple outlet tester (pencil style chirper) to
determine there was juice in the line. If somehow only 110/120 was
getting down to the pump, is it possible it would only pump partway up
the piping?

3 - We have high iron content in the water (partial reason for the
treatment). I wondered if there had been a small leak in the steel
pipe (yes it is steel, at least the top few sections that I have seen)
that might have been plugged with oxidized iron. Perhaps the bleach
then dissolved or loosened the "plug" enough to cause it to open?

4 - To the responder that concluded the pump is shot... I guess
anything is possible, but when my car doesn't start I don't
immediately shop for a new car ;-)

5 - I was having a tough time figuring out how the pressure could have
gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
well failure. Sounds like the two events need to be researched
separately. As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
integrated into the pressure tank?

6 - to the person who asked about the strength of the bleach used: We
used a standard 5.5% product, mixed with water. According to our well
report we have about 200' of water in a 6" column, and we used 8 cups
of bleach. I guess that could be an overdose if the water level had
dropped, but I have no reason to suspect that is the case.

Thanks again

I just had the same problem, expect I still had some pressure.
Loss of pressure to 30psi
Pump was running constantly and never got above 30psi
Cut power and pressure went directly to 0psi

It ended up being the connector that goes from the house to the well
pipe.
Saddle valve coupling.
It had corroded and caused a leak internal to the well pipe.



On Oct 13, 8:49*pm, gwandsh wrote:
On Oct 12, 3:10*pm, gwandsh wrote:



This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. *Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. *Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. *However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. *When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. *I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. *Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? *I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

Thanks all for the good input. *I appreciate knowing something about
the possibilities when I finally reach the well contractor. *I have a
couple of calls in to him, but it is a small town rural area and he
doesn't seem to be getting his calls. *Possibly he has gone hunting
and did not leave an "out of office" message. *It is a weekend place,
so service calls mean time off work, yada yada.

To clarify a few items:

1 - I first suspected the mechainical relay in the pressure switch. *I
opened the box and cleaned the contacts. *They seem to be working
fine, at least they are getting the pump turned on.

2 - I did check the power at the well head. *I did not have a voltage
meter, but used a simple outlet tester (pencil style chirper) to
determine there was juice in the line. *If somehow only 110/120 was
getting down to the pump, is it possible it would only pump partway up
the piping?

3 - We have high iron content in the water (partial reason for the
treatment). *I wondered if there had been a small leak in the steel
pipe (yes it is steel, at least the top few sections that I have seen)
that might have been plugged with oxidized iron. *Perhaps the bleach
then dissolved or loosened the "plug" enough to cause it to open?

4 - To the responder that concluded the pump is shot... I guess
anything is possible, but when my car doesn't start I don't
immediately shop for a new car ;-)

5 - I was having a tough time figuring out how the pressure could have
gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
well failure. *Sounds like the two events need to be researched
separately. *As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
integrated into the pressure tank?

6 - to the person who asked about the strength of the bleach used: *We
used a standard 5.5% product, mixed with water. *According to our well
report we have about 200' of water in a 6" column, and we used 8 cups
of bleach. *I guess that could be an overdose if the water level had
dropped, but I have no reason to suspect that is the case.

Thanks again

On Oct 13, 6:49*pm, gwandsh wrote:
On Oct 12, 3:10*pm, gwandsh wrote:



snip

gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
well failure. *Sounds like the two events need to be researched
separately. *As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
integrated into the pressure tank?

The normal checkvalve in a submersible is integrated with the pump.
Some systems are installed with a second one above ground. Unless the
pump one has failed I have never understood the rationale of
installing a second one. In your case, look for a fitting in the pipe
(it will be a bit larger than the pipe) that has only the inlet/outlet
and no other connections.

In any case, it would not be the cause of the pump not delivering
water, only not holding pressure when the pump shuts off.

Harry K

"gwandsh" wrote in message
...
On Oct 12, 3:10 pm, gwandsh wrote:
This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

Thanks all for the good input. I appreciate knowing something about
the possibilities when I finally reach the well contractor. I have a
couple of calls in to him, but it is a small town rural area and he
doesn't seem to be getting his calls. Possibly he has gone hunting
and did not leave an "out of office" message. It is a weekend place,
so service calls mean time off work, yada yada.

To clarify a few items:

1 - I first suspected the mechainical relay in the pressure switch. I
opened the box and cleaned the contacts. They seem to be working
fine, at least they are getting the pump turned on.

2 - I did check the power at the well head. I did not have a voltage
meter, but used a simple outlet tester (pencil style chirper) to
determine there was juice in the line. If somehow only 110/120 was
getting down to the pump, is it possible it would only pump partway up
the piping?

3 - We have high iron content in the water (partial reason for the
treatment). I wondered if there had been a small leak in the steel
pipe (yes it is steel, at least the top few sections that I have seen)
that might have been plugged with oxidized iron. Perhaps the bleach
then dissolved or loosened the "plug" enough to cause it to open?

4 - To the responder that concluded the pump is shot... I guess
anything is possible, but when my car doesn't start I don't
immediately shop for a new car ;-)

5 - I was having a tough time figuring out how the pressure could have
gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
well failure. Sounds like the two events need to be researched
separately. As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
integrated into the pressure tank?

6 - to the person who asked about the strength of the bleach used: We
used a standard 5.5% product, mixed with water. According to our well
report we have about 200' of water in a 6" column, and we used 8 cups
of bleach. I guess that could be an overdose if the water level had
dropped, but I have no reason to suspect that is the case.

Thanks again


Does the pump have a control box, or is it a 2 wire pump? Is there anything
that would indicate if the pump is 120 or 240 volts? If you have galvanized
piping down the well, it's possible that it rotted and broke, but I still
don't see anything that you did that would have caused it to happen. There
may be a check valve before the pressure tank, and one or more down in the
well

"theedudenator" wrote in message
...
I just had the same problem, expect I still had some pressure.
Loss of pressure to 30psi
Pump was running constantly and never got above 30psi
Cut power and pressure went directly to 0psi

It ended up being the connector that goes from the house to the well
pipe.
Saddle valve coupling.
It had corroded and caused a leak internal to the well pipe.


If the "pitless adapter" fails, he would see the water squirting out at that
point



On Oct 13, 8:49 pm, gwandsh wrote:
On Oct 12, 3:10 pm, gwandsh wrote:



This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

Thanks all for the good input. I appreciate knowing something about
the possibilities when I finally reach the well contractor. I have a
couple of calls in to him, but it is a small town rural area and he
doesn't seem to be getting his calls. Possibly he has gone hunting
and did not leave an "out of office" message. It is a weekend place,
so service calls mean time off work, yada yada.

To clarify a few items:

1 - I first suspected the mechainical relay in the pressure switch. I
opened the box and cleaned the contacts. They seem to be working
fine, at least they are getting the pump turned on.

2 - I did check the power at the well head. I did not have a voltage
meter, but used a simple outlet tester (pencil style chirper) to
determine there was juice in the line. If somehow only 110/120 was
getting down to the pump, is it possible it would only pump partway up
the piping?

3 - We have high iron content in the water (partial reason for the
treatment). I wondered if there had been a small leak in the steel
pipe (yes it is steel, at least the top few sections that I have seen)
that might have been plugged with oxidized iron. Perhaps the bleach
then dissolved or loosened the "plug" enough to cause it to open?

4 - To the responder that concluded the pump is shot... I guess
anything is possible, but when my car doesn't start I don't
immediately shop for a new car ;-)

5 - I was having a tough time figuring out how the pressure could have
gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
well failure. Sounds like the two events need to be researched
separately. As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
integrated into the pressure tank?

6 - to the person who asked about the strength of the bleach used: We
used a standard 5.5% product, mixed with water. According to our well
report we have about 200' of water in a 6" column, and we used 8 cups
of bleach. I guess that could be an overdose if the water level had
dropped, but I have no reason to suspect that is the case.

Thanks again

On Oct 14, 6:59*am, "RBM" wrote:
"gwandsh" wrote in message

...
On Oct 12, 3:10 pm, gwandsh wrote:





This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

Thanks all for the good input. *I appreciate knowing something about
the possibilities when I finally reach the well contractor. *I have a
couple of calls in to him, but it is a small town rural area and he
doesn't seem to be getting his calls. *Possibly he has gone hunting
and did not leave an "out of office" message. *It is a weekend place,
so service calls mean time off work, yada yada.

To clarify a few items:

1 - I first suspected the mechainical relay in the pressure switch. *I
opened the box and cleaned the contacts. *They seem to be working
fine, at least they are getting the pump turned on.

2 - I did check the power at the well head. *I did not have a voltage
meter, but used a simple outlet tester (pencil style chirper) to
determine there was juice in the line. *If somehow only 110/120 was
getting down to the pump, is it possible it would only pump partway up
the piping?

If i'ts a 240V pump, which it almost certainly is for this
application, there is no way it could be getting 120V. The pump runs
off two out of phase hot legs that give 240V and there is no neutral.

I'd go buy a VOM. You can get cheap basic ones for $15 at radio shack
or many tool places, home centers, Sears, etc. If it's a 2 wire plus
ground 240V pump and you have 240V at the wires going down the well,
then you know it's time to pull the pump.



3 - We have high iron content in the water (partial reason for the
treatment). *I wondered if there had been a small leak in the steel
pipe (yes it is steel, at least the top few sections that I have seen)
that might have been plugged with oxidized iron. *Perhaps the bleach
then dissolved or loosened the "plug" enough to cause it to open?

Considering the symptoms and sequence of events, that would explain
things. However what the probability of that actually happening and
opening a hole sufficient to result in no water, I don't know, but
would think it would be low.

It's also possible the chlorine attacked the electrical system at some
point, ie, got into the motor, causing resistance in a connection,
etc.


4 - To the responder that concluded the pump is shot... I guess
anything is possible, but when my car doesn't start I don't
immediately shop for a new car ;-)

5 - I was having a tough time figuring out how the pressure could have
gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
well failure. *Sounds like the two events need to be researched
separately. *As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
integrated into the pressure tank?

Normally the check valve is located in the pump. That;s why I said
if the pressure went to 0 overnight without any water usage, it's a
strong indication that there is a leak in the well piping and such a
leak would totally explain what you are seeing and hearing.




6 - to the person who asked about the strength of the bleach used: *We
used a standard 5.5% product, mixed with water. *According to our well
report we have about 200' of water in a 6" column, and we used 8 cups
of bleach. *I guess that could be an overdose if the water level had
dropped, but I have no reason to suspect that is the case.

Doesn't seem like a lot of bleach. I strongly suspect that you're
going to find that whatever happened, it was destined to happen pretty
soon anyway. The bleach may have only accelerated it. It might
actually be a good thing, because if something is corroded, you may
have found it sooner, before the pipe breaks off from the pump, etc.




Thanks again

Does the pump have a control box, or is it a 2 wire pump? Is there anything
that would indicate if the pump is 120 or 240 volts? If you have galvanized
piping down the well, it's possible that it rotted and broke, but I still
don't see anything that you did that would have caused it to happen. There
may be a check valve before the pressure tank, and one or more down in the
well- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Oct 14, 5:20*am, wrote:
On Oct 14, 6:59*am, "RBM" wrote:





"gwandsh" wrote in message

....
On Oct 12, 3:10 wrote:

This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

Thanks all for the good input. *I appreciate knowing something about
the possibilities when I finally reach the well contractor. *I have a
couple of calls in to him, but it is a small town rural area and he
doesn't seem to be getting his calls. *Possibly he has gone hunting
and did not leave an "out of office" message. *It is a weekend place,
so service calls mean time off work, yada yada.

To clarify a few items:

1 - I first suspected the mechainical relay in the pressure switch. *I
opened the box and cleaned the contacts. *They seem to be working
fine, at least they are getting the pump turned on.

2 - I did check the power at the well head. *I did not have a voltage
meter, but used a simple outlet tester (pencil style chirper) to
determine there was juice in the line. *If somehow only 110/120 was
getting down to the pump, is it possible it would only pump partway up
the piping?

If i'ts a 240V pump, which it almost certainly is for this
application, there is no way it could be getting 120V. *The pump runs
off two out of phase hot legs that give 240V and there is no neutral.

I'd go buy a VOM. *You can get cheap basic ones for $15 at radio shack
or many tool places, home centers, Sears, etc. *If it's a 2 wire plus
ground 240V pump and you have 240V at the wires going down the well,
then you know it's time to pull the pump.



3 - We have high iron content in the water (partial reason for the
treatment). *I wondered if there had been a small leak in the steel
pipe (yes it is steel, at least the top few sections that I have seen)
that might have been plugged with oxidized iron. *Perhaps the bleach
then dissolved or loosened the "plug" enough to cause it to open?

Considering the symptoms and sequence of events, that would explain
things. * However what the probability of that actually happening and
opening a hole sufficient to result in no water, I don't know, but
would think it would be low.

It's also possible the chlorine attacked the electrical system at some
point, ie, got into the motor, causing resistance in a connection,
etc.



4 - To the responder that concluded the pump is shot... I guess
anything is possible, but when my car doesn't start I don't
immediately shop for a new car ;-)

5 - I was having a tough time figuring out how the pressure could have
gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
well failure. *Sounds like the two events need to be researched
separately. *As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
integrated into the pressure tank?

Normally the check valve is located in the pump. * *That;s why I said
if the pressure went to 0 overnight without any water usage, it's a
strong indication that there is a leak in the well piping and such a
leak would totally explain what you are seeing and hearing.



6 - to the person who asked about the strength of the bleach used: *We
used a standard 5.5% product, mixed with water. *According to our well
report we have about 200' of water in a 6" column, and we used 8 cups
of bleach. *I guess that could be an overdose if the water level had
dropped, but I have no reason to suspect that is the case.

Doesn't seem like a lot of bleach. * I strongly suspect that you're
going to find that whatever happened, it was destined to happen pretty
soon anyway. * The bleach may have only accelerated it. * It might
actually be a good thing, because if something is corroded, you may
have found it sooner, before the pipe breaks off from the pump, etc.





Thanks again

Does the pump have a control box, or is it a 2 wire pump? Is there anything
that would indicate if the pump is 120 or 240 volts? If you have galvanized
piping down the well, it's possible that it rotted and broke, but I still
don't see anything that you did that would have caused it to happen. There
may be a check valve before the pressure tank, and one or more down in the
well- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again, grateful for all the good info. I reached the contractor
today, and he described a few other possible scenarios. He touched on
many items already mentioned here. His additions (from memory - not
the best record)

- the "starter condenser" might be working but the "run condenser" is
shot. Hope that terminology is accurate.
- the recirculating of the water back down the well pipe might have
dislodged accumulated oxidation on the casing, and the pump inlet
screen could be fouled.

There were a few other items to track as well. We are arranging to
meet there as soon as I can spare a day from work, and he will start
to diagnose. Will post back to the group once we find the problem,
just for interest's sake.

"gwandsh" wrote in message
...
On Oct 14, 5:20 am, wrote:
On Oct 14, 6:59 am, "RBM" wrote:





"gwandsh" wrote in message

...
On Oct 12, 3:10 wrote:

This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

Thanks all for the good input. I appreciate knowing something about
the possibilities when I finally reach the well contractor. I have a
couple of calls in to him, but it is a small town rural area and he
doesn't seem to be getting his calls. Possibly he has gone hunting
and did not leave an "out of office" message. It is a weekend place,
so service calls mean time off work, yada yada.

To clarify a few items:

1 - I first suspected the mechainical relay in the pressure switch. I
opened the box and cleaned the contacts. They seem to be working
fine, at least they are getting the pump turned on.

2 - I did check the power at the well head. I did not have a voltage
meter, but used a simple outlet tester (pencil style chirper) to
determine there was juice in the line. If somehow only 110/120 was
getting down to the pump, is it possible it would only pump partway up
the piping?

If i'ts a 240V pump, which it almost certainly is for this
application, there is no way it could be getting 120V. The pump runs
off two out of phase hot legs that give 240V and there is no neutral.

I'd go buy a VOM. You can get cheap basic ones for $15 at radio shack
or many tool places, home centers, Sears, etc. If it's a 2 wire plus
ground 240V pump and you have 240V at the wires going down the well,
then you know it's time to pull the pump.



3 - We have high iron content in the water (partial reason for the
treatment). I wondered if there had been a small leak in the steel
pipe (yes it is steel, at least the top few sections that I have seen)
that might have been plugged with oxidized iron. Perhaps the bleach
then dissolved or loosened the "plug" enough to cause it to open?

Considering the symptoms and sequence of events, that would explain
things. However what the probability of that actually happening and
opening a hole sufficient to result in no water, I don't know, but
would think it would be low.

It's also possible the chlorine attacked the electrical system at some
point, ie, got into the motor, causing resistance in a connection,
etc.



4 - To the responder that concluded the pump is shot... I guess
anything is possible, but when my car doesn't start I don't
immediately shop for a new car ;-)

5 - I was having a tough time figuring out how the pressure could have
gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
well failure. Sounds like the two events need to be researched
separately. As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
integrated into the pressure tank?

Normally the check valve is located in the pump. That;s why I said
if the pressure went to 0 overnight without any water usage, it's a
strong indication that there is a leak in the well piping and such a
leak would totally explain what you are seeing and hearing.



6 - to the person who asked about the strength of the bleach used: We
used a standard 5.5% product, mixed with water. According to our well
report we have about 200' of water in a 6" column, and we used 8 cups
of bleach. I guess that could be an overdose if the water level had
dropped, but I have no reason to suspect that is the case.

Doesn't seem like a lot of bleach. I strongly suspect that you're
going to find that whatever happened, it was destined to happen pretty
soon anyway. The bleach may have only accelerated it. It might
actually be a good thing, because if something is corroded, you may
have found it sooner, before the pipe breaks off from the pump, etc.





Thanks again

Does the pump have a control box, or is it a 2 wire pump? Is there
anything
that would indicate if the pump is 120 or 240 volts? If you have
galvanized
piping down the well, it's possible that it rotted and broke, but I
still
don't see anything that you did that would have caused it to happen.
There
may be a check valve before the pressure tank, and one or more down in
the
well- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again, grateful for all the good info. I reached the contractor
today, and he described a few other possible scenarios. He touched on
many items already mentioned here. His additions (from memory - not
the best record)


- the "starter condenser" might be working but the "run condenser" is
shot. Hope that terminology is accurate.

If you have a control box, this stuff can be diagnosed right there. If you
don't, it's built into the pump, and it needs to be pulled





- the recirculating of the water back down the well pipe might have
dislodged accumulated oxidation on the casing, and the pump inlet
screen could be fouled.

There were a few other items to track as well. We are arranging to
meet there as soon as I can spare a day from work, and he will start
to diagnose. Will post back to the group once we find the problem,
just for interest's sake.

On Oct 15, 3:09*am, "RBM" wrote:
"gwandsh" wrote in message

...
On Oct 14, 5:20 am, wrote:





On Oct 14, 6:59 am, "RBM" wrote:

"gwandsh" wrote in message

....
On Oct 12, 3:10 wrote:

This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

Thanks all for the good input. I appreciate knowing something about
the possibilities when I finally reach the well contractor. I have a
couple of calls in to him, but it is a small town rural area and he
doesn't seem to be getting his calls. Possibly he has gone hunting
and did not leave an "out of office" message. It is a weekend place,
so service calls mean time off work, yada yada.

To clarify a few items:

1 - I first suspected the mechainical relay in the pressure switch. I
opened the box and cleaned the contacts. They seem to be working
fine, at least they are getting the pump turned on.

2 - I did check the power at the well head. I did not have a voltage
meter, but used a simple outlet tester (pencil style chirper) to
determine there was juice in the line. If somehow only 110/120 was
getting down to the pump, is it possible it would only pump partway up
the piping?

If i'ts a 240V pump, which it almost certainly is for this
application, there is no way it could be getting 120V. The pump runs
off two out of phase hot legs that give 240V and there is no neutral.

I'd go buy a VOM. You can get cheap basic ones for $15 at radio shack
or many tool places, home centers, Sears, etc. If it's a 2 wire plus
ground 240V pump and you have 240V at the wires going down the well,
then you know it's time to pull the pump.

3 - We have high iron content in the water (partial reason for the
treatment). I wondered if there had been a small leak in the steel
pipe (yes it is steel, at least the top few sections that I have seen)
that might have been plugged with oxidized iron. Perhaps the bleach
then dissolved or loosened the "plug" enough to cause it to open?

Considering the symptoms and sequence of events, that would explain
things. However what the probability of that actually happening and
opening a hole sufficient to result in no water, I don't know, but
would think it would be low.

It's also possible the chlorine attacked the electrical system at some
point, ie, got into the motor, causing resistance in a connection,
etc.

4 - To the responder that concluded the pump is shot... I guess
anything is possible, but when my car doesn't start I don't
immediately shop for a new car ;-)

5 - I was having a tough time figuring out how the pressure could have
gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
well failure. Sounds like the two events need to be researched
separately. As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
integrated into the pressure tank?

Normally the check valve is located in the pump. That;s why I said
if the pressure went to 0 overnight without any water usage, it's a
strong indication that there is a leak in the well piping and such a
leak would totally explain what you are seeing and hearing.

6 - to the person who asked about the strength of the bleach used: We
used a standard 5.5% product, mixed with water. According to our well
report we have about 200' of water in a 6" column, and we used 8 cups
of bleach. I guess that could be an overdose if the water level had
dropped, but I have no reason to suspect that is the case.

Doesn't seem like a lot of bleach. I strongly suspect that you're
going to find that whatever happened, it was destined to happen pretty
soon anyway. The bleach may have only accelerated it. It might
actually be a good thing, because if something is corroded, you may
have found it sooner, before the pipe breaks off from the pump, etc.

Thanks again

Does the pump have a control box, or is it a 2 wire pump? Is there
anything
that would indicate if the pump is 120 or 240 volts? If you have
galvanized
piping down the well, it's possible that it rotted and broke, but I
still
don't see anything that you did that would have caused it to happen.
There
may be a check valve before the pressure tank, and one or more down in
the
well- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again, grateful for all the good info. *I reached the contractor
today, and he described a few other possible scenarios. *He touched on
many items already mentioned here. *His additions (from memory - not
the best record)

- the "starter condenser" might be working but the "run condenser" is
shot. Hope that terminology is accurate.

If you have a control box, this stuff can be diagnosed right there. If you
don't, it's built into the pump, and it needs to be pulled

- the recirculating of the water back down the well pipe might have
dislodged accumulated oxidation on the casing, and the pump inlet
screen could be fouled.

There were a few other items to track as well. *We are arranging to
meet there as soon as I can spare a day from work, and he will start
to diagnose. *Will post back to the group once we find the problem,
just for interest's sake.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, after a diagnostic visit and some work, we are back up and
running. It appears that the pump was toast, and the frequent cycling
of it as we ran the water out durignthe "shock" caused it to finally
give up the ghost. Our local well guy got us a good 2 HP replacement
pump, had it installed in three hours, and we have taps that work
again. It's embarrassing how quickly hauling water from a creek gets
*really* old fast.

Our best guess is that the prior pump was in the well since the
mid-90's. It was a 5 HP, which our guy says may have been
detrimental, since it would cycle on/off faster to service our
pressure tank. Regardless, it seems it was on borrowed time.

As for the dropping of the pressure in the system, our guy was not
quite sure how to ID that one. He mentioned that there might be a
tiny leak in the pipe from the well to house, but we've never seen
evidence of anything like that. This weekend, with the new pump
installed, I spent several hours working in the "basement" beside the
pressure tank. I tracked the pressure when I started, and with no
water running anywhere, it was still static at the same pressure after
almost 3 hours. So I'm thinking a slow leak would have altered the
pressure in that time span (if it had lost ALL pressure overnight as
we noted).

So, observations with the new pump in place:
Almost undetectable operation. The 5 HP caused a pretty audible hum
when charging the tank.
Very loud click in the pressure switch. The prior unit clicked
audibly, this one really snaps. (Switch unchanged, I attribute this to
the new control box).
Takes under 2 minutes to fill the pressure tank. Takes 4 minutes when
an outdoor hose it running full bore.
Opening a tap causes water to come out. Eureka!

On Nov 2, 5:35*pm, gwandsh wrote:
On Oct 15, 3:09*am, "RBM" wrote:





"gwandsh" wrote in message

....
On Oct 14, 5:20 am, wrote:

On Oct 14, 6:59 am, "RBM" wrote:

"gwandsh" wrote in message

...
On Oct 12, 3:10 wrote:

This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

Thanks all for the good input. I appreciate knowing something about
the possibilities when I finally reach the well contractor. I have a
couple of calls in to him, but it is a small town rural area and he
doesn't seem to be getting his calls. Possibly he has gone hunting
and did not leave an "out of office" message. It is a weekend place,
so service calls mean time off work, yada yada.

To clarify a few items:

1 - I first suspected the mechainical relay in the pressure switch. I
opened the box and cleaned the contacts. They seem to be working
fine, at least they are getting the pump turned on.

2 - I did check the power at the well head. I did not have a voltage
meter, but used a simple outlet tester (pencil style chirper) to
determine there was juice in the line. If somehow only 110/120 was
getting down to the pump, is it possible it would only pump partway up
the piping?

If i'ts a 240V pump, which it almost certainly is for this
application, there is no way it could be getting 120V. The pump runs
off two out of phase hot legs that give 240V and there is no neutral.

I'd go buy a VOM. You can get cheap basic ones for $15 at radio shack
or many tool places, home centers, Sears, etc. If it's a 2 wire plus
ground 240V pump and you have 240V at the wires going down the well,
then you know it's time to pull the pump.

3 - We have high iron content in the water (partial reason for the
treatment). I wondered if there had been a small leak in the steel
pipe (yes it is steel, at least the top few sections that I have seen)
that might have been plugged with oxidized iron. Perhaps the bleach
then dissolved or loosened the "plug" enough to cause it to open?

Considering the symptoms and sequence of events, that would explain
things. However what the probability of that actually happening and
opening a hole sufficient to result in no water, I don't know, but
would think it would be low.

It's also possible the chlorine attacked the electrical system at some
point, ie, got into the motor, causing resistance in a connection,
etc.

4 - To the responder that concluded the pump is shot... I guess
anything is possible, but when my car doesn't start I don't
immediately shop for a new car ;-)

5 - I was having a tough time figuring out how the pressure could have
gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
well failure. Sounds like the two events need to be researched
separately. As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
integrated into the pressure tank?

Normally the check valve is located in the pump. That;s why I said
if the pressure went to 0 overnight without any water usage, it's a
strong indication that there is a leak in the well piping and such a
leak would totally explain what you are seeing and hearing.

6 - to the person who asked about the strength of the bleach used: We
used a standard 5.5% product, mixed with water. According to our well
report we have about 200' of water in a 6" column, and we used 8 cups
of bleach. I guess that could be an overdose if the water level had
dropped, but I have no reason to suspect that is the case.

Doesn't seem like a lot of bleach. I strongly suspect that you're
going to find that whatever happened, it was destined to happen pretty
soon anyway. The bleach may have only accelerated it. It might
actually be a good thing, because if something is corroded, you may
have found it sooner, before the pipe breaks off from the pump, etc.

Thanks again

Does the pump have a control box, or is it a 2 wire pump? Is there
anything
that would indicate if the pump is 120 or 240 volts? If you have
galvanized
piping down the well, it's possible that it rotted and broke, but I
still
don't see anything that you did that would have caused it to happen..
There
may be a check valve before the pressure tank, and one or more down in
the
well- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again, grateful for all the good info. *I reached the contractor
today, and he described a few other possible scenarios. *He touched on
many items already mentioned here. *His additions (from memory - not
the best record)

- the "starter condenser" might be working but the "run condenser" is
shot. Hope that terminology is accurate.

If you have a control box, this stuff can be diagnosed right there. If you
don't, it's built into the pump, and it needs to be pulled

- the recirculating of the water back down the well pipe might have
dislodged accumulated oxidation on the casing, and the pump inlet
screen could be fouled.

There were a few other items to track as well. *We are arranging to
meet there as soon as I can spare a day from work, and he will start
to diagnose. *Will post back to the group once we find the problem,
just for interest's sake.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, after a diagnostic visit and some work, we are back up and
running. *It appears that the pump was toast, and the frequent cycling
of it as we ran the water out durignthe "shock" caused it to finally
give up the ghost. *Our local well guy got us a good 2 HP replacement
pump, had it installed in three hours, and we have taps that work
again. *It's embarrassing how quickly hauling water from a creek gets
*really* old fast.

Our best guess is that the prior pump was in the well since the
mid-90's. *It was a 5 HP, which our guy says may have been
detrimental, since it would cycle on/off faster to service our
pressure tank. *Regardless, it seems it was on borrowed time.

As for the dropping of the pressure in the system, our guy was not
quite sure how to ID that one. *He mentioned that there might be a
tiny leak in the pipe from the well to house, but we've never seen
evidence of anything like that. *This weekend, with the new pump
installed, I spent several hours working in the "basement" beside the
pressure tank. *I tracked the pressure when I started, and with no
water running anywhere, it was still static at the same pressure after
almost 3 hours. *So I'm thinking a slow leak would have altered the
pressure in that time span (if it had lost ALL pressure overnight as
we noted).

So, observations with the new pump in place:
Almost undetectable operation. *The 5 HP caused a pretty audible hum
when charging the tank.
Very loud click in the pressure switch. The prior unit clicked
audibly, this one really snaps. (Switch unchanged, I attribute this to
the new control box).
Takes under 2 minutes to fill the pressure tank. *Takes 4 minutes when
an outdoor hose it running full bore.
Opening a tap causes water to come out. *Eureka!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the update. 5hp!!! that is a new one on me. Way overrate
for residential use unless there is a _lot_ of irrigation being done.

Harry K

On Nov 2, 8:39*pm, Harry K wrote:
On Nov 2, wrote:





On Oct 15, 3:09*am, "RBM" wrote:

"gwandsh" wrote in message

....
On Oct 14, 5:20 am, wrote:

On Oct 14, 6:59 am, "RBM" wrote:

"gwandsh" wrote in message

...
On Oct 12, 3:10 wrote:

This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
bacteria issues. Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
into the well head. Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
sit for the night.

The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
delivered to the pressure tank.

I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. I can
hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
really is.

It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
(or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
from being delivered. Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
without special equipment? I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
nd has worked flawlessly for years.

Thanks all for the good input. I appreciate knowing something about
the possibilities when I finally reach the well contractor. I have a
couple of calls in to him, but it is a small town rural area and he
doesn't seem to be getting his calls. Possibly he has gone hunting
and did not leave an "out of office" message. It is a weekend place,
so service calls mean time off work, yada yada.

To clarify a few items:

1 - I first suspected the mechainical relay in the pressure switch. I
opened the box and cleaned the contacts. They seem to be working
fine, at least they are getting the pump turned on.

2 - I did check the power at the well head. I did not have a voltage
meter, but used a simple outlet tester (pencil style chirper) to
determine there was juice in the line. If somehow only 110/120 was
getting down to the pump, is it possible it would only pump partway up
the piping?

If i'ts a 240V pump, which it almost certainly is for this
application, there is no way it could be getting 120V. The pump runs
off two out of phase hot legs that give 240V and there is no neutral.

I'd go buy a VOM. You can get cheap basic ones for $15 at radio shack
or many tool places, home centers, Sears, etc. If it's a 2 wire plus
ground 240V pump and you have 240V at the wires going down the well,
then you know it's time to pull the pump.

3 - We have high iron content in the water (partial reason for the
treatment). I wondered if there had been a small leak in the steel
pipe (yes it is steel, at least the top few sections that I have seen)
that might have been plugged with oxidized iron. Perhaps the bleach
then dissolved or loosened the "plug" enough to cause it to open?

Considering the symptoms and sequence of events, that would explain
things. However what the probability of that actually happening and
opening a hole sufficient to result in no water, I don't know, but
would think it would be low.

It's also possible the chlorine attacked the electrical system at some
point, ie, got into the motor, causing resistance in a connection,
etc.

4 - To the responder that concluded the pump is shot... I guess
anything is possible, but when my car doesn't start I don't
immediately shop for a new car ;-)

5 - I was having a tough time figuring out how the pressure could have
gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
well failure. Sounds like the two events need to be researched
separately. As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
integrated into the pressure tank?

Normally the check valve is located in the pump. That;s why I said
if the pressure went to 0 overnight without any water usage, it's a
strong indication that there is a leak in the well piping and such a
leak would totally explain what you are seeing and hearing.

6 - to the person who asked about the strength of the bleach used: We
used a standard 5.5% product, mixed with water. According to our well
report we have about 200' of water in a 6" column, and we used 8 cups
of bleach. I guess that could be an overdose if the water level had
dropped, but I have no reason to suspect that is the case.

Doesn't seem like a lot of bleach. I strongly suspect that you're
going to find that whatever happened, it was destined to happen pretty
soon anyway. The bleach may have only accelerated it. It might
actually be a good thing, because if something is corroded, you may
have found it sooner, before the pipe breaks off from the pump, etc..

Thanks again

Does the pump have a control box, or is it a 2 wire pump? Is there
anything
that would indicate if the pump is 120 or 240 volts? If you have
galvanized
piping down the well, it's possible that it rotted and broke, but I
still
don't see anything that you did that would have caused it to happen.
There
may be a check valve before the pressure tank, and one or more down in
the
well- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again, grateful for all the good info. *I reached the contractor
today, and he described a few other possible scenarios. *He touched on
many items already mentioned here. *His additions (from memory - not
the best record)

- the "starter condenser" might be working but the "run condenser" is
shot. Hope that terminology is accurate.

If you have a control box, this stuff can be diagnosed right there. If you
don't, it's built into the pump, and it needs to be pulled

- the recirculating of the water back down the well pipe might have
dislodged accumulated oxidation on the casing, and the pump inlet
screen could be fouled.

There were a few other items to track as well. *We are arranging to
meet there as soon as I can spare a day from work, and he will start
to diagnose. *Will post back to the group once we find the problem,
just for interest's sake.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, after a diagnostic visit and some work, we are back up and
running. *It appears that the pump was toast, and the frequent cycling
of it as we ran the water out durignthe "shock" caused it to finally
give up the ghost. *Our local well guy got us a good 2 HP replacement
pump, had it installed in three hours, and we have taps that work
again. *It's embarrassing how quickly hauling water from a creek gets
*really* old fast.

Our best guess is that the prior pump was in the well since the
mid-90's. *It was a 5 HP, which our guy says may have been
detrimental, since it would cycle on/off faster to service our
pressure tank. *Regardless, it seems it was on borrowed time.

As for the dropping of the pressure in the system, our guy was not
quite sure how to ID that one. *He mentioned that there might be a
tiny leak in the pipe from the well to house, but we've never seen
evidence of anything like that. *This weekend, with the new pump
installed, I spent several hours working in the "basement" beside the
pressure tank. *I tracked the pressure when I started, and with no
water running anywhere, it was still static at the same pressure after
almost 3 hours. *So I'm thinking a slow leak would have altered the
pressure in that time span (if it had lost ALL pressure overnight as
we noted).

So, observations with the new pump in place:
Almost undetectable operation. *The 5 HP caused a pretty audible hum
when charging the tank.
Very loud click in the pressure switch. The prior unit clicked
audibly, this one really snaps. (Switch unchanged, I attribute this to
the new control box).
Takes under 2 minutes to fill the pressure tank. *Takes 4 minutes when
an outdoor hose it running full bore.
Opening a tap causes water to come out. *Eureka!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the update. *5hp!!! that is a new one on me. *Way overrate
for residential use unless there is a _lot_ of irrigation being done.

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, when we got the place, there was a 2" line that was branched off
the house line very near the well head. There was a valve buried
under about three feet of insulation, covered with a fuky "well
house". The line serviced a 2" line that encircled the cabin and some
of the open ground around it. The theory was that if a fire came down
the canyon (and you still had power and sufficient warning), you could
get to that valve in time and the pressure was sufficient to soak the
house and grounds in short order.

It was a great theory, but we had to bring the power up to PUD
standards, and the re-trenching trashed the 2"lines (some of which
were exposed on the surface or just slightly under it).

Anyways, I suspect this is where the 5hp pump came into play.