I have one of those heater element sockets which have holes in the
end to take a 3/8" shaft - and I had no problems with the upper element,
but the lower one is jammed up solid; with some 3/8" metal rod through the
socket holes and a 4' thick-walled hollow bar on that as a breaker, it
just keeps on bending the 3/8" rod where it meets the socket...

Heating around the element nut with a torch hasn't helped, nor has leaving
the whole lot to soak in penetrating oil for a few hours, nor has
thumping it with a big hammer to loosen the corrosion (makes me nervous,
that, though - tank looks to be cast iron, and I don't want to crack it).

Worst-case I might be about to drill the darn thing out, I suppose,
although I was mainly interested in checking the element for scaling, not
outright replacing it (it's giving 13.8 ohms consistent with the upper
one, and nothing to ground on either terminal), plus i don't want to risk
trashing the tank threads.

Next attempt might be to drill the holes larger in the socket, as I have a
bit of 5/8" solid rod sitting up in the workshop - but before I go
modifying the tool, I was wondering if anyone had any other bright ideas?
Maybe leaving it to soak overnight in penetrating oil is worth a shot?

cheers

Jules

Jules wrote:
I have one of those heater element sockets which have holes in the
end to take a 3/8" shaft - and I had no problems with the upper
element, but the lower one is jammed up solid; with some 3/8" metal
rod through the socket holes and a 4' thick-walled hollow bar on that
as a breaker, it just keeps on bending the 3/8" rod where it meets
the socket...

Heating around the element nut with a torch hasn't helped, nor has
leaving the whole lot to soak in penetrating oil for a few hours, nor
has thumping it with a big hammer to loosen the corrosion (makes me
nervous, that, though - tank looks to be cast iron, and I don't want
to crack it).

Worst-case I might be about to drill the darn thing out, I suppose,
although I was mainly interested in checking the element for scaling,
not outright replacing it (it's giving 13.8 ohms consistent with the
upper one, and nothing to ground on either terminal), plus i don't
want to risk trashing the tank threads.

Next attempt might be to drill the holes larger in the socket, as I
have a bit of 5/8" solid rod sitting up in the workshop - but before
I go modifying the tool, I was wondering if anyone had any other
bright ideas? Maybe leaving it to soak overnight in penetrating oil
is worth a shot?

Have you tried tightening it? Sometimes things will break loose when turned the
other way.

Have you tried the hammer and screwdriver at an angle trick on the nut to try to
turn it with impact?

Have you tried a pipe on each end of the bar to double the force before the bar
bands?

Jules wrote:
I have one of those heater element sockets which have holes in the
end to take a 3/8" shaft - and I had no problems with the upper
element, but the lower one is jammed up solid; with some 3/8" metal
rod through the socket holes and a 4' thick-walled hollow bar on that
as a breaker, it just keeps on bending the 3/8" rod where it meets
the socket...

Heating around the element nut with a torch hasn't helped, nor has
leaving the whole lot to soak in penetrating oil for a few hours, nor
has thumping it with a big hammer to loosen the corrosion (makes me
nervous, that, though - tank looks to be cast iron, and I don't want
to crack it).

Worst-case I might be about to drill the darn thing out, I suppose,
although I was mainly interested in checking the element for scaling,
not outright replacing it (it's giving 13.8 ohms consistent with the
upper one, and nothing to ground on either terminal), plus i don't
want to risk trashing the tank threads.

Next attempt might be to drill the holes larger in the socket, as I
have a bit of 5/8" solid rod sitting up in the workshop - but before
I go modifying the tool, I was wondering if anyone had any other
bright ideas? Maybe leaving it to soak overnight in penetrating oil
is worth a shot?

There are many types of penatrating oil. The one I've had the most luck with
is "BLASTER PB," available at auto parts stores.

It is used by all our neighborhood Mexican auto mechanics who don't know
enough English to curse very well. Saves them an awful lot of "um...,
ahhh..., "

On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 12:08:43 -0700, Bob F wrote:
Have you tried tightening it? Sometimes things will break loose when turned the
other way.

Heck, that was a quick reply

Just gave that one a go - no luck unfortunately...

Have you tried the hammer and screwdriver at an angle trick on the nut to try to
turn it with impact?

Not yet - I suppose that should be my second-last-resort to drilling the
darn thing out, as it might damage the nut and make it impossible to get
the socket on...

Have you tried a pipe on each end of the bar to double the force before
the bar bands?

Sadly I can't as it is right now; whoever installed the thing fitted it
against a wall with the access panels on the left and pointing slightly
toward the wall - I'd have to cut the pipes and take the whole tank out to
get at it like that.

(although I do want to cut the cold feed pipe anyway so I can put a
shut-off valve in, so I suppose it'd only be one extra pipe and I could
re-route things easily enough - I'll have a think about that!)

Oh, can't see a sign of a washer on that lower element, unlike the upper
one - makes me wonder if it doesn't have one and it's just been
gooped up with who-knows-what to seal it. Grr!

cheers

Jules

On Oct 2, 2:57*pm, Jules
wrote:
I have one of those heater element sockets which have holes in the
end to take a 3/8" shaft - and I had no problems with the upper element,
but the lower one is jammed up solid; with some 3/8" metal rod through the
socket holes and a 4' thick-walled hollow bar on that as a breaker, it
just keeps on bending the 3/8" rod where it meets the socket...

Heating around the element nut with a torch hasn't helped, nor has leaving
the whole lot to soak in penetrating oil for a few hours, nor has
thumping it with a big hammer to loosen the corrosion (makes me nervous,
that, though - tank looks to be cast iron, and I don't want to crack it).

Worst-case I might be about to drill the darn thing out, I suppose,
although I was mainly interested in checking the element for scaling, not
outright replacing it (it's giving 13.8 ohms consistent with the upper
one, and nothing to ground on either terminal), plus i don't want to risk
trashing the tank threads.

Next attempt might be to drill the holes larger in the socket, as I have a
bit of 5/8" solid rod sitting up in the workshop - but before I go
modifying the tool, I was wondering if anyone had any other bright ideas?
Maybe leaving it to soak overnight in penetrating oil is worth a shot?

cheers

Jules

Ive had that happen too, If you can get a big pipe wrench on the
socket.... Pay heed others cautions

Jimmie

On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:18:08 -0700, JIMMIE wrote:
Ive had that happen too, If you can get a big pipe wrench on the
socket.... Pay heed others cautions

Yep!

Annoyingly, the local tool place has sockets with 1/2" drive right up to
1-1/4" in their cheap-but-I-don't-care-as-I'll-only-use-it-once-range for
about $3, but the 1-1/2" that I'd actually need is 20-something bucks :-)

cheers

Jules

Jules wrote:
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:18:08 -0700, JIMMIE wrote:
Ive had that happen too, If you can get a big pipe wrench on the
socket.... Pay heed others cautions

Yep!

Annoyingly, the local tool place has sockets with 1/2" drive right up
to 1-1/4" in their
cheap-but-I-don't-care-as-I'll-only-use-it-once-range for about $3,
but the 1-1/2" that I'd actually need is 20-something bucks :-)

Sometimes you can buy used tools at "used tool" stores. You can rent tools at
rent-all stores. Pawn shops sometimes have a bin of used sockets for sale.

You could use a pipe elbow on the other end of the socket bar to get a different
angle on it.

Drilling out for a larger bar might work, or it could weaken the socket so it
deforms instead.

You could have a steel bar welded to the end of the socket you have.

As others have said, unless this is a fairly new heater, you might be better off
just leaving it untill the element really need to be replaced.

I would cut the pipes and turn it to get at it. Adding shut offs is what
I did when I installed mine. In 5-10 years you will be happy you did.
Also once a month run water out of the bottom faucet on the tank to
keep it clean.
Jerry


http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutc...oodWorkingPage



http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutcher/1974RuppCentair

On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 15:33:12 -0400, gfretwell wrote:
My bet is the bottom of that water heater is slugged solid with scale
and you will be buying a new one soon enough. At least do it on your
own schedule.

Good call there, by the way. Wasn't getting much scale out of the drain
valve, so I'd figured it couldn't be too bad. Then I took the drain valve
apart, and the internal valve passage is a square-section s-shape, and
only of about 1/4" diameter.

I took the upper element out and had a peek inside, and it was choked
with scale at the bottom, like you figured. Not surprisingly, a lot of the
bits are far too big to ever stand a chance of getting through that valve
body...

I managed to break some of it up, probably got about 3 gallons of
solid scale out of it and another of sludge; I think that might drop the
level below the lower element (just waiting on it to heat right now)
which will buy some time, but it's looking like a new heater's a good
idea sometime soon :-)

cheers

Jules

wrote in message
news
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:57:11 -0500, Jules
wrote:


I have one of those heater element sockets which have holes in the
end to take a 3/8" shaft - and I had no problems with the upper element,
but the lower one is jammed up solid; with some 3/8" metal rod through the
socket holes and a 4' thick-walled hollow bar on that as a breaker, it
just keeps on bending the 3/8" rod where it meets the socket...

Heating around the element nut with a torch hasn't helped, nor has leaving
the whole lot to soak in penetrating oil for a few hours, nor has
thumping it with a big hammer to loosen the corrosion (makes me nervous,
that, though - tank looks to be cast iron, and I don't want to crack it).

Worst-case I might be about to drill the darn thing out, I suppose,
although I was mainly interested in checking the element for scaling, not
outright replacing it (it's giving 13.8 ohms consistent with the upper
one, and nothing to ground on either terminal), plus i don't want to risk
trashing the tank threads.

Next attempt might be to drill the holes larger in the socket, as I have a
bit of 5/8" solid rod sitting up in the workshop - but before I go
modifying the tool, I was wondering if anyone had any other bright ideas?
Maybe leaving it to soak overnight in penetrating oil is worth a shot?

cheers

Jules


If it ain't broke DON'T FIX IT!

Worst case is you will be buying a new water heater and that "worst
case" could be right now if you keep screwing with that element.
You may not break the metal can but you can crack the glass lining.

they haven't made them with glass linings for a LONG time

My bet is the bottom of that water heater is slugged solid with scale
and you will be buying a new one soon enough. At least do it on your
own schedule.

"charlie" wrote in message

wrote in message
news
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:57:11 -0500, Jules
wrote:


I have one of those heater element sockets which have holes in the
end to take a 3/8" shaft - and I had no problems with the upper
element, but the lower one is jammed up solid; with some 3/8" metal
rod through the socket holes and a 4' thick-walled hollow bar on
that as a breaker, it just keeps on bending the 3/8" rod where it
meets the socket... Heating around the element nut with a torch
hasn't helped, nor has
leaving the whole lot to soak in penetrating oil for a few hours,
nor has thumping it with a big hammer to loosen the corrosion
(makes me nervous, that, though - tank looks to be cast iron, and I
don't want to crack it). Worst-case I might be about to drill the
darn thing out, I suppose,
although I was mainly interested in checking the element for
scaling, not outright replacing it (it's giving 13.8 ohms
consistent with the upper one, and nothing to ground on either
terminal), plus i don't want to risk trashing the tank threads.

Next attempt might be to drill the holes larger in the socket, as I
have a bit of 5/8" solid rod sitting up in the workshop - but
before I go modifying the tool, I was wondering if anyone had any
other bright ideas? Maybe leaving it to soak overnight in
penetrating oil is worth a shot? cheers

Jules


If it ain't broke DON'T FIX IT!

Worst case is you will be buying a new water heater and that "worst
case" could be right now if you keep screwing with that element.
You may not break the metal can but you can crack the glass lining.

they haven't made them with glass linings for a LONG time

My bet is the bottom of that water heater is slugged solid with scale
and you will be buying a new one soon enough. At least do it on your
own schedule.

Huh, saw glass lined in the local place just yesterday.

On Oct 13, 8:12�pm, "Twayne" wrote:
"charlie" wrote in message







wrote in message
news
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:57:11 -0500, Jules
wrote:

I have one of those heater element sockets which have holes in the
end to take a 3/8" shaft - and I had no problems with the upper
element, but the lower one is jammed up solid; with some 3/8" metal
rod through the socket holes and a 4' thick-walled hollow bar on
that as a breaker, it just keeps on bending the 3/8" rod where it
meets the socket... Heating around the element nut with a torch
hasn't helped, nor has
leaving the whole lot to soak in penetrating oil for a few hours,
nor has thumping it with a big hammer to loosen the corrosion
(makes me nervous, that, though - tank looks to be cast iron, and I
don't want to crack it). Worst-case I might be about to drill the
darn thing out, I suppose,
although I was mainly interested in checking the element for
scaling, not outright replacing it (it's giving 13.8 ohms
consistent with the upper one, and nothing to ground on either
terminal), plus i don't want to risk trashing the tank threads.

Next attempt might be to drill the holes larger in the socket, as I
have a bit of 5/8" solid rod sitting up in the workshop - but
before I go modifying the tool, I was wondering if anyone had any
other bright ideas? Maybe leaving it to soak overnight in
penetrating oil is worth a shot? cheers

Jules

If it ain't broke DON'T FIX IT!

Worst case is you will be buying a new water heater and that "worst
case" could be right now if you keep screwing with that element.
You may not break the metal can but you can crack the glass lining.

they haven't made them with glass linings for a LONG time

My bet is the bottom of that water heater is slugged solid with scale
and you will be buying a new one soon enough. At least do it on your
own schedule.

Huh, saw glass lined in the local place just yesterday.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

yeah me too, at both lowes and home depot. my tank is 9 years old, i
was shopping

"Twayne" wrote in message
...
"charlie" wrote in message

wrote in message
news
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:57:11 -0500, Jules
wrote:


I have one of those heater element sockets which have holes in the
end to take a 3/8" shaft - and I had no problems with the upper
element, but the lower one is jammed up solid; with some 3/8" metal
rod through the socket holes and a 4' thick-walled hollow bar on
that as a breaker, it just keeps on bending the 3/8" rod where it
meets the socket... Heating around the element nut with a torch hasn't
helped, nor has
leaving the whole lot to soak in penetrating oil for a few hours,
nor has thumping it with a big hammer to loosen the corrosion
(makes me nervous, that, though - tank looks to be cast iron, and I
don't want to crack it). Worst-case I might be about to drill the darn
thing out, I suppose,
although I was mainly interested in checking the element for
scaling, not outright replacing it (it's giving 13.8 ohms
consistent with the upper one, and nothing to ground on either
terminal), plus i don't want to risk trashing the tank threads.

Next attempt might be to drill the holes larger in the socket, as I
have a bit of 5/8" solid rod sitting up in the workshop - but
before I go modifying the tool, I was wondering if anyone had any
other bright ideas? Maybe leaving it to soak overnight in
penetrating oil is worth a shot? cheers

Jules


If it ain't broke DON'T FIX IT!

Worst case is you will be buying a new water heater and that "worst
case" could be right now if you keep screwing with that element.
You may not break the metal can but you can crack the glass lining.

they haven't made them with glass linings for a LONG time

My bet is the bottom of that water heater is slugged solid with scale
and you will be buying a new one soon enough. At least do it on your
own schedule.

Huh, saw glass lined in the local place just yesterday.

well, if it's glass lined, then why a: does it need an anode, and b: what
would rust to produce a hole in the casing?

charlie wrote:

Worst case is you will be buying a new water heater and that "worst
case" could be right now if you keep screwing with that element.
You may not break the metal can but you can crack the glass lining.

they haven't made them with glass linings for a LONG time

My bet is the bottom of that water heater is slugged solid with
scale and you will be buying a new one soon enough. At least do it
on your own schedule.

Huh, saw glass lined in the local place just yesterday.

well, if it's glass lined, then why a: does it need an anode, and b:
what would rust to produce a hole in the casing?

Because the glass lining is not perfect and does not cover every single square
micron of the tank. The area it does cover reduces the erosion of the anode.

On Oct 14, 3:05�pm, "Bob F" wrote:
charlie wrote:
Worst case is you will be buying a new water heater and that "worst
case" could be right now if you keep screwing with that element.
You may not break the metal can but you can crack the glass lining.

they haven't made them with glass linings for a LONG time

My bet is the bottom of that water heater is slugged solid with
scale and you will be buying a new one soon enough. At least do it
on your own schedule.

Huh, saw glass lined in the local place just yesterday.

well, if it's glass lined, then why a: does it need an anode, and b:
what would rust to produce a hole in the casing?

Because the glass lining is not perfect and does not cover every single square
micron of the tank. The area it does cover reduces the erosion of the anode.

plus the glass detoriates over time espically in the high hear areas