On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 09:55:00 -0400, "
wrote:

Some Guy wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

My son A.J. finished his Eagle Scout project today:
construction and installation of the Stations of the
Cross on the grounds of Cardinal Ritter

I thought scouting was about out-door stuff, survival, being prepared,
etc.

What do chuch-related activities have to do with any of that?

Scouting has always been about leadership, cooperation, teamwork and
contributing to the community...

In general, yes, and the Girl Scouts exemplify this. The Boy Scouts,
unfortunately, did stray into homophobic territory with their refusal
to let gay men be troop leaders, which the Girl Scouts have not done,
and that has generated considerable backlash. I personally think that
sticking to the goals you mention would be a perfectly clear way to
operate, much as the military should (hope DADT is overturned asap so
we can get some of the best people we have to defend our troops and
country).

"Ed Ahern" wrote:

Congrats from a long time Scouter and the father of two Eagles.

I have been told that the only two activities specifically asked about on
the application to any Military academy are "Are you an Eagle Scout, Did you
attend Boys State?"

Some years ago, I was chatting with a Scout who was just back from his first
semester at the Air Force Academy. I asked him if it gave him an edge, being
an Eagle. He said "Nah. It's pretty much expected." -- Doug

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 16:44:53 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Jim Elbrecht wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


-snip-
Congratulations to your son. Eagle scout projects are a good lesson in life
and most Eagle scouts go on to great things.

Just curious- has anyone actually done the research on that?
Only twelve men have walked on the Moon. Supposedly, _every one_ of them is an
Eagle Scout.


A quick look at Wikipedia casts doubt on that. Wiki would love the
corrections if you've got them.
I checked mostly because I didn't think a dozen astronauts had walked
on the moon-- then once I was there. . . .

Armstrong & Duke -Eagle
Mitchell & Scott - Life

No mention of scouting-
Aldrin, Conrad, Bean, Shepard, Irwin, Young, Cernan, Schmitt

I don't doubt that a lot of Eagle scouts have done well. There are a
couple million of them, more or less, so it is likely that lots of
them did well. [chances are that as a cross section of society, they
counted among the more privileged class so we should expect them to do
better than average]

But how do they rate against their peers? It would take a real
effort to sort them out, take a sample and compare their futures-- but
if we're just going to cite random scouts-- I've known 3 in my life.
1 was a good man, though outside of scouting you wouldn't call him
remarkable.

2 others were not. They didn't do as poorly as Eagle scouts Lee
Harvey Oswald, or serial killer scouts Robinson & Whitman, - but they
were general ne'er do wells.

Jim
The Army loves to hire Eagle scouts, especially those that made to the
Scout conventions and remote-area camping events. Much of the stuff they
teach in basic and even in OCS has already been addressed, so the
official military training is usually a breeze for them. Most of the big
Army bases historically have had a very friendly relationship with the
Scouts, although there has been some flack lately due to the Scouts
allegedly discriminating against some kids of non-mainstream religious
beliefs or unacceptable lifestyles.

--
aem sends...

"Some Guy" wrote in message ...
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Eagle scout projects are a good lesson in life
and most Eagle scouts go on to great things.

Just curious- has anyone actually done the research on that?

Yea, I was wondering the same thing.

It's something many parents would like to believe.


In addition to many in leadership positions, there seems to be a
disproportionate number of serial killers among Eagle Scouts. Richard Angelo
and Charles Whitman being but two examples.

On 7/19/09 12:34 PM, "Smitty Two" wrote:

I just watched "Religulous." We non-believers see all religions as
absolutely, completely insane. 93 % of scientists are in that camp.

And most statistics are made up. Where does that 93% come from? Can you cite
any reputable sources?

Most of the scientists that I know feel that the beautiful logic of the
universe can only be explained by a Creator. They don't always have much
interest in organized religions but they do believe.

Some Guy wrote:
mike from American Sycamore wrote:

the rec is like a family and Doug wanted to share a a"happy"
moment with his friends.

That's what e-mail is for.

If you are not educated enough to realize that, it
is better to keep your mouth shut rather than prove
your stupidity!

I don't know what usenet you read, but calling me stupid for calling
people on off-topic posts is just ignorant - you ****ing piece of
****. You want to start spouting verbal abuse at me, I'll come right
back at you.

Oh, and you come back brilliantly. What does your venom have to do with
anything?

I think I also read the Usenet that would call you very, very stupid just
for the general inanity of your posts.

A proud father is not a guy to belittle in public, and I'd be very proud if
my son were an Eagle Scout. If you want to call youreslf Some Guy, then
start acting like an adult instead of an inbred little pussy. And please
stop cross-posting if you're so sensitive to Usenet rules.

Doug, my best regards to your son, for he has surely earned your pride.

Some Guy wrote:
mike from American Sycamore wrote:

the rec is like a family and Doug wanted to share a a"happy"
moment with his friends.

That's what e-mail is for.

If you are not educated enough to realize that, it
is better to keep your mouth shut rather than prove
your stupidity!

I don't know what usenet you read, but calling me stupid for calling
people on off-topic posts is just ignorant - you ****ing piece of
****. You want to start spouting verbal abuse at me, I'll come right
back at you.

Some Guy wrote:
mike from American Sycamore wrote:

the rec is like a family and Doug wanted to share a a"happy"
moment with his friends.

That's what e-mail is for.

If you are not educated enough to realize that, it
is better to keep your mouth shut rather than prove
your stupidity!

I don't know what usenet you read, but calling me stupid for calling
people on off-topic posts is just ignorant - you ****ing piece of
****. You want to start spouting verbal abuse at me, I'll come right
back at you.

Oh, and you come back brilliantly. What does your venom have to do with
anything?

I think I also read the Usenet that would call you very, very stupid just
for the general inanity of your posts.

A proud father is not a guy to belittle in public, and I'd be very proud if
my son were an Eagle Scout. If you want to call youreslf Some Guy, then
start acting like an adult instead of an inbred little pussy. And please
stop cross-posting if you're so sensitive to Usenet rules.

Doug, my best regards to your son, for he has surely earned your pride.

Doug Miller wrote:
My son A.J. finished his Eagle Scout project today: construction and
installation of the Stations of the Cross on the grounds of Cardinal Ritter
High School (his alma mater) and St. Michael's Catholic Church here in
Indianapolis.

(Note to non-Catholics: the Stations of the Cross is a devotional intended to
encourage meditation on the sufferings and death of Jesus Christ. It consists
of fourteen icons depicting various events during His Passion, beginning with
his condemnation by Pilate, leading up to and ending with his body being laid
in the tomb.)

Photos of the completed project he
http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/u...view=slideshow

Project concept, design, and management by my son.
Scrollsaw work by my wife.
Construction and installation by my son and over a dozen volunteer helpers.
Special thanks to Carter-Lee Lumber Company of Indianapolis
www.carterlee.com for their very generous donation of *all* of the lumber
used in this project.



First of all, congratulations to A.J. especially, but also to you and
Mrs. Miller, as well as the volunteers who helped with this thing. It
takes a lot of perseverence to see something like that all the way
through, so kudos to all of you.

I don't know much about Eagle Scouts, but from what I've read they are
kids who have a special knack for seeing things through, as this project
indicates.

I do, however, know a bit about Catholics, and it's an area I chose to
leave a lot of years ago for reasons no one cares about except me. At
this point in my life, I'm either an apathetic agnostic or an aging
atheist - take your pick. The key A word there is apathetic. I just
don't much care one way or the other. This, BTW is not the start of a
discussion on that. Engage me on it, and I'll just ignore it.

What does straigten out my pubes tho is evangelising on both sides of
that believer/atheist line. Some days I think the atheists or agnostics
are worse than the evangelical nutbars that are out to save the world
with their "true" faith.

Doug Miller and his family are not ramming religion or Catholicism down
your throats. Doug explained the meaning of the project within the
church and left it at that. They did something that has merit, took
time and effort and conquered boredom and fatigue. 14 stations is a hell
of a lot of work. It's certainly not OT for the Wreck, and I guess it
got cross posted for Doug's other interests.

Comments decrying the Catholic Church and religion in this context are
rude, inconsiderate and off topic in themselves. Comments like that
indicate your own insecurities and generally tend to bring the bar down
in a discusson group. "Tend", I say because the other tendency when that
happens is that assholes get a new one reamed by the other folks who are
as offended by those kinds of remarks as I am.

Generally, Doug and his family got great responses from people who more
or less left the religion thing alone, which is how it should be.

But some folks just gotta **** on other people's shoes.

Sorry for the long post.

Tanus

On Jul 19, 8:02*pm, Tanus wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
My son A.J. finished his Eagle Scout project today: construction and
installation of the Stations of the Cross on the grounds of Cardinal Ritter
High School (his alma mater) and St. Michael's Catholic Church here in
Indianapolis.

(Note to non-Catholics: the Stations of the Cross is a devotional intended to
encourage meditation on the sufferings and death of Jesus Christ. It consists
of fourteen icons depicting various events during His Passion, beginning with
his condemnation by Pilate, leading up to and ending with his body being laid
in the tomb.)

Photos of the completed project he
http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/u...albumview=slid....

Project concept, design, and management by my son.
Scrollsaw work by my wife.
Construction and installation by my son and over a dozen volunteer helpers.
Special thanks to Carter-Lee Lumber Company of Indianapolis
www.carterlee.com for their very generous donation of *all* of the lumber
used in this project.

First of all, congratulations to A.J. *especially, but also to you and
Mrs. Miller, as well as the volunteers who helped with this thing. It
takes a lot of perseverence to see something like that all the way
through, so kudos to all of you.

I don't know much about Eagle Scouts, but from what I've read they are
kids who have a special knack for seeing things through, as this project
indicates.

I do, however, know a bit about Catholics, and it's an area I chose to
leave a lot of years ago for reasons no one cares about except me. At
this point in my life, I'm either an apathetic agnostic or an aging
atheist - take your pick. The key A word there is apathetic. I just
don't much care one way or the other. This, BTW is not the start of a
discussion on that. Engage me on it, and I'll just ignore it.

What does straigten out my pubes tho is evangelising on both sides of
that believer/atheist line. Some days I think the atheists or agnostics
are worse than the evangelical nutbars that are out to save the world
with their "true" faith.

Doug Miller and his family are not ramming religion or Catholicism down
your throats. Doug explained the meaning of the project within the
church and left it at that. *They did something that has merit, took
time and effort and conquered boredom and fatigue. 14 stations is a hell
of a lot of work. It's certainly not OT for the Wreck, and I guess it
got cross posted for Doug's other interests.

Comments decrying the Catholic Church and religion in this context are
rude, inconsiderate and off topic in themselves. Comments like that
indicate your own insecurities and generally tend to bring the bar down
in a discusson group. "Tend", I say because the other tendency when that
happens is that assholes get a new one reamed by the other folks who are
as offended by those kinds of remarks as I am.

Generally, Doug and his family got great responses from people who more
or less left the religion thing alone, which is how it should be.

But some folks just gotta **** on other people's shoes.

Sorry for the long post.

Ditto to everything Tanus said. Congratulations to AJ and all the
others involved in the project. And Doug has reason to be proud.

Luigi

"Douglas Johnson" wrote in message
...
"Ed Ahern" wrote:

Congrats from a long time Scouter and the father of two Eagles.

I have been told that the only two activities specifically asked about on
the application to any Military academy are "Are you an Eagle Scout, Did
you
attend Boys State?"

Some years ago, I was chatting with a Scout who was just back from his
first
semester at the Air Force Academy. I asked him if it gave him an edge,
being
an Eagle. He said "Nah. It's pretty much expected." -- Doug

Congrats on your son's achievement...You should be very proud...Don't let
the idiots get you down....

Speaking of Boys Scouts acheivements...

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stori....589eac0f.html

This happened locally within the last few days. I bet there are some proud
mothers and fathers on this one. An example of a training exercise suddenly
turning into the real thing.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Jim Elbrecht wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


-snip-
Congratulations to your son. Eagle scout projects are a good lesson in life
and most Eagle scouts go on to great things.

Just curious- has anyone actually done the research on that?

Only twelve men have walked on the Moon. Supposedly, _every one_ of them is an
Eagle Scout.

Good enough for me.

How many of them were able to light a campfire
on the Moon? *snicker*

TDD

J. Clarke wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Do you ever spend time pondering the resurrected Lord, and
the blessings of eternal life in Heaven? Or do you just cry
all day with endless guilt?

I've never met a Catholic who "cried all day with endless guilt". I don't
know where people get the idea that Catholics are on some kind of guilt
trip--few of them that I have ever met are.


Heck I cried all day when I was sent to the Catholic Parochial
Gulag by my parents. I often tell people that I have absolutely
no fear of terrorists because as a small boy, I had Irish nuns
for teachers. *snicker*

TDD

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


-snip-
Congratulations to your son. Eagle scout projects are a good lesson in
life and most Eagle scouts go on to great things.
Just curious- has anyone actually done the research on that?

Only twelve men have walked on the Moon. Supposedly, _every one_ of them
is an Eagle Scout.

Good enough for me.

How many of them were able to light a campfire
on the Moon? *snicker*

TDD


Six.

LD wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


-snip-
Congratulations to your son. Eagle scout projects are a good
lesson in life and most Eagle scouts go on to great things.
Just curious- has anyone actually done the research on that?

Only twelve men have walked on the Moon. Supposedly, _every one_ of
them is an Eagle Scout.

Good enough for me.

How many of them were able to light a campfire
on the Moon? *snicker*

TDD


Six.

I didn't ask who lighted a rocket! *snicker*

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:
LD wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

(...)

How many of them were able to light a campfire
on the Moon? *snicker*

TDD


Six.

I didn't ask who lighted a rocket! *snicker*

TDD

Consider it a 'Decamp' fire.

--Winston

In article , Tanus wrote:

First of all, congratulations to A.J. especially, but also to you and
Mrs. Miller, as well as the volunteers who helped with this thing. It
takes a lot of perseverence to see something like that all the way
through, so kudos to all of you.

I don't know much about Eagle Scouts, but from what I've read they are
kids who have a special knack for seeing things through, as this project
indicates.

I do, however, know a bit about Catholics, and it's an area I chose to
leave a lot of years ago for reasons no one cares about except me. At
this point in my life, I'm either an apathetic agnostic or an aging
atheist - take your pick. The key A word there is apathetic. I just
don't much care one way or the other. This, BTW is not the start of a
discussion on that. Engage me on it, and I'll just ignore it.

What does straigten out my pubes tho is evangelising on both sides of
that believer/atheist line. Some days I think the atheists or agnostics
are worse than the evangelical nutbars that are out to save the world
with their "true" faith.

Doug Miller and his family are not ramming religion or Catholicism down
your throats. Doug explained the meaning of the project within the
church and left it at that. They did something that has merit, took
time and effort and conquered boredom and fatigue. 14 stations is a hell
of a lot of work. It's certainly not OT for the Wreck, and I guess it
got cross posted for Doug's other interests.

Comments decrying the Catholic Church and religion in this context are
rude, inconsiderate and off topic in themselves. Comments like that
indicate your own insecurities and generally tend to bring the bar down
in a discusson group. "Tend", I say because the other tendency when that
happens is that assholes get a new one reamed by the other folks who are
as offended by those kinds of remarks as I am.

Generally, Doug and his family got great responses from people who more
or less left the religion thing alone, which is how it should be.

But some folks just gotta **** on other people's shoes.

Sorry for the long post.

NP. Well said, and thank you.

Some Guy wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

My son A.J. finished his Eagle Scout project today:
construction and installation of the Stations of the
Cross on the grounds of Cardinal Ritter

I thought scouting was about out-door stuff, survival, being prepared,
etc.

What do chuch-related activities have to do with any of that?


You were wrong, as you would have seen by even a cursory examination of the
requirements for elevation to Eagle Scout:

"While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a
service project helpful to any religious institution, school, or community.
(The project should benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting.) The
project idea must be approved by the organization benefiting from the
effort, your Scoutmaster and troop committee and the council or district
before you start."

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:02:48 -0400, Tanus wrote Re
Eagle Scout project complete!:

Sorry for the long post.

Tanus

It was a good on-topic post. No need to apologize.
--
I filter all messages from google groups.

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


-snip-
Congratulations to your son. Eagle scout projects are a good lesson
in life and most Eagle scouts go on to great things.


Just curious- has anyone actually done the research on that?


Here's some:

Neil Armstrong
First man on the moon

Willie Banks
Olympic athlete, former
world-record holder in triple
jump and long jump

Michael Bloomberg
Mayor of New York City

Guion "Guy" S. Bluford Jr.
Retired U.S. Air Force offcer
and space shuttle astronaut;
frst African American in
space

Bill Bradley
Former professional basketball
player, U.S. senator, and
presidential candidate

Stephen Breyer
Associate justice of the U.S.
Supreme Court

Mike Crapo
U.S. senator from Idaho

William C. DeVries, M.D.
Surgeon and educator;
transplanted the frst
artifcial heart

Michael Dukakis
Former governor of
Massachusetts and
presidential candidate

Mike Enzi
U.S. senator from Wyoming

Thomas Foley
Former speaker of the U.S.
House of Representatives and
ambassador to Japan

Gerald R. Ford*
38th president of the
United States

Steve Fossett*
World-record holder; frst to
circumnavigate Earth solo in
a balloon and an airplane

Chan Gailey
College and professional
football coach

John Garamendi
Lieutenant governor of
California

Bill Gates Sr.
CEO of Bill and Melinda
Gates Foundation; father of
Bill Gates

Robert Gates
U.S. secretary of defense and
former director of the Central
Intelligence Agency

Michael Kahn
Academy Award-winning
flm editor

James A. Lovell Jr.
Former U.S. Navy offcer
and Apollo 13 commander

Gary Locke
Former governor of
Washington; frst Chinese
American governor in the
United States

Richard G. Lugar
U.S. senator from Indiana

J. Willard Marriott Jr.
Chairman and CEO of
Marriott International

George Meyer
Writer and producer of
"The Simpsons"

Ben Nelson
U.S. senator from Nebraska

H. Ross Perot
Founder of EDS and Perot
Systems; former presidential
candidate

Rick Perry
Governor of Texas

Beasley Reece
Former NFL player and
sportscaster

Mike Rowe
Host of "Dirty Jobs"
television program

Donald Rumsfeld
Former U. S. secretary
of defense

Jefferson Sessions
U.S. senator from Alabama

William S. Sessions
Former federal judge and
director of the FBI

John Tesh
Recording artist and
performer

Togo West
Former U.S. secretary of
veterans affairs and secretary
of the Army

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Do you ever spend time pondering the resurrected Lord, and
the blessings of eternal life in Heaven? Or do you just cry
all day with endless guilt?


Neither. A great sage once said: "There are four things on which one should
not dwell: What came before and what will come after, what is above and what
is below."

The simple reason for this admonition is that one cannot influence the
hereafter. One can, however, do something today to make this a better world.

HeyBub wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Do you ever spend time pondering the resurrected Lord, and
the blessings of eternal life in Heaven? Or do you just cry
all day with endless guilt?


Neither. A great sage once said: "There are four things on which one should
not dwell: What came before and what will come after, what is above and what
is below."

The simple reason for this admonition is that one cannot influence the
hereafter. One can, however, do something today to make this a better world.



What makes you think you can do something to make this a better world?

HeyBub wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Do you ever spend time pondering the resurrected Lord, and
the blessings of eternal life in Heaven? Or do you just cry
all day with endless guilt?


Neither. A great sage once said: "There are four things on which one should
not dwell: What came before and what will come after, what is above and what
is below."

The simple reason for this admonition is that one cannot influence the
hereafter. One can, however, do something today to make this a better world.


No, the simple reason for the admonition is to trivialize anyone who has
beliefs. Can you offer proof using standard rules of logic that there is
"nothing"?

I've got to disagree with that concept. Of course, a person
can affect what comes after death. That's the entire reason
for repentance, commandments, acts of service, etc. Even a
few Non-Mormons understand that concept.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Do you ever spend time pondering the resurrected Lord, and
the blessings of eternal life in Heaven? Or do you just
cry
all day with endless guilt?


Neither. A great sage once said: "There are four things on
which one should
not dwell: What came before and what will come after, what
is above and what
is below."

The simple reason for this admonition is that one cannot
influence the
hereafter. One can, however, do something today to make this
a better world.

I wonder that, and also why people think that their earthly
actions have no effect on their eternal glory (or lack
thereof).

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

What makes you think you can do something to make this a
better world?

George wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Do you ever spend time pondering the resurrected Lord, and
the blessings of eternal life in Heaven? Or do you just cry
all day with endless guilt?


Neither. A great sage once said: "There are four things on which one
should not dwell: What came before and what will come after, what is
above and what is below."

The simple reason for this admonition is that one cannot influence
the hereafter. One can, however, do something today to make this a
better world.


No, the simple reason for the admonition is to trivialize anyone who
has beliefs. Can you offer proof using standard rules of logic that
there is "nothing"?

So it is your belief that some action on your part can result in a change in
God's plan?

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've got to disagree with that concept. Of course, a person
can affect what comes after death. That's the entire reason
for repentance, commandments, acts of service, etc. Even a
few Non-Mormons understand that concept.

If you're doing something because you think it will get you into heaven or
keep you out of Hell you're doing it for the wrong reason.

In article , "J. Clarke" wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've got to disagree with that concept. Of course, a person
can affect what comes after death. That's the entire reason
for repentance, commandments, acts of service, etc. Even a
few Non-Mormons understand that concept.

If you're doing something because you think it will get you into heaven or
keep you out of Hell you're doing it for the wrong reason.

While I agree with that statement, I'd contend nonetheless that doing good
(e.g. feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, sheltering the homeless), even
for the "wrong reason", is still a Good Thing. Certainly better IMHO to do
good for the wrong reasons, than to do evil for any reason.

In article , " wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Do you ever spend time pondering the resurrected Lord, and
the blessings of eternal life in Heaven? Or do you just cry
all day with endless guilt?


Neither. A great sage once said: "There are four things on which one should
not dwell: What came before and what will come after, what is above and what
is below."

The simple reason for this admonition is that one cannot influence the
hereafter. One can, however, do something today to make this a better world.



What makes you think you can do something to make this a better world?

Oh, come on, that's easy. Volunteer at a soup kitchen. Donate food and
clothing to a shelter for battered women. Teach someone to read. Raise your
children to be respectful and kind. Use your turn signal. Say "Please" and
"Thank you." Smile. Hold the door open for an old man with a cane.

I could go on, but hopefully you get the idea.

KLS wrote:

In general, yes, and the Girl Scouts exemplify this. The Boy Scouts,
unfortunately, did stray into homophobic territory with their refusal
to let gay men be troop leaders, which the Girl Scouts have not done,
and that has generated considerable backlash. I personally think that
sticking to the goals you mention would be a perfectly clear way to
operate, much as the military should (hope DADT is overturned asap so
we can get some of the best people we have to defend our troops and
country).

If "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is rescinded, there is no doubt that hundreds of
otherwise ineligible folks would join up. By some estimates, however, as
many as two million members of the armed services (out of three million)
would separate themselves from the service at the first opportunity.

Having gays in the infantry is, in my view, not a good idea. We just can't
take weeks to kill an enemy soldier!

wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Do you ever spend time pondering the resurrected Lord, and
the blessings of eternal life in Heaven? Or do you just cry
all day with endless guilt?


Neither. A great sage once said: "There are four things on which one
should not dwell: What came before and what will come after, what is
above and what is below."

The simple reason for this admonition is that one cannot influence
the hereafter. One can, however, do something today to make this a
better world.

What makes you think you can do something to make this a better world?

Experience.

If you're hungry, I can give you a sandwich. If you need to rest, you can
use my couch. If you need a job, I can make some calls. I can donate blood,
pay my taxes (some of which help make this a better world), kill a rat,
smile at a child, enjoy a kitten, write to my congressman, and, in a
thousand small ways, do something every day.

George wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Do you ever spend time pondering the resurrected Lord, and
the blessings of eternal life in Heaven? Or do you just cry
all day with endless guilt?


Neither. A great sage once said: "There are four things on which one
should not dwell: What came before and what will come after, what is
above and what is below."

The simple reason for this admonition is that one cannot influence
the hereafter. One can, however, do something today to make this a
better world.
No, the simple reason for the admonition is to trivialize anyone who
has beliefs. Can you offer proof using standard rules of logic that
there is "nothing"?

I never said there was "nothing." The hereafter simply doesn't influence me.

By the simple standard rules of logic, I can say that we MIGHT be closer to
world peace, a cure for cancer, or eliminating male pattern baldness had not
some really great intellects applied themselves to endeavors other than
ruminating on how many angles could dance on the head of a pin.

The New Testament says that the streets of heaven are paved with gold.
Whether they're paved with gold or whether they're paved with mud, they are
what they are and none of our piety or wit can cancel half a line. We are of
THIS world, not the world to come.

But, and this is a big "but," to the degree that any faith inspires and
comforts, any activity that promotes that faith and belief is,
intrinsically, good. Any religion that promotes charity, good works,
justice, respect, protection of the weak and chastisement for the wicked is
a good and holy road to God - even if it digresses from time to time to
contemplate angles and pins.

There can be more than one reason. But, I've done a lot of
things in order to improve my eternal afterlife.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've got to disagree with that concept. Of course, a
person
can affect what comes after death. That's the entire
reason
for repentance, commandments, acts of service, etc. Even a
few Non-Mormons understand that concept.

If you're doing something because you think it will get you
into heaven or
keep you out of Hell you're doing it for the wrong reason.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
There can be more than one reason. But, I've done a lot of
things in order to improve my eternal afterlife.

Would you have done them differently if you were not attempting to improve
your afterlife?

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've got to disagree with that concept. Of course, a
person
can affect what comes after death. That's the entire
reason
for repentance, commandments, acts of service, etc. Even a
few Non-Mormons understand that concept.

If you're doing something because you think it will get you
into heaven or
keep you out of Hell you're doing it for the wrong reason.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , " wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Do you ever spend time pondering the resurrected Lord, and
the blessings of eternal life in Heaven? Or do you just cry
all day with endless guilt?

Neither. A great sage once said: "There are four things on which one should
not dwell: What came before and what will come after, what is above and what
is below."

The simple reason for this admonition is that one cannot influence the
hereafter. One can, however, do something today to make this a better world.


What makes you think you can do something to make this a better world?

Oh, come on, that's easy. Volunteer at a soup kitchen. Donate food and
clothing to a shelter for battered women. Teach someone to read. Raise your
children to be respectful and kind. Use your turn signal. Say "Please" and
"Thank you." Smile. Hold the door open for an old man with a cane.

I could go on, but hopefully you get the idea.

That was intended as a bit of a trick question. Couldn't resist )

Yes, totally so. I woulda never got baptized, if it weren't
for the promise of a better afterlife. Nor would I have done
any temple ordinances.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
There can be more than one reason. But, I've done a lot of
things in order to improve my eternal afterlife.

Would you have done them differently if you were not
attempting to improve
your afterlife?

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:29:15 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

KLS wrote:

In general, yes, and the Girl Scouts exemplify this. The Boy Scouts,
unfortunately, did stray into homophobic territory with their refusal
to let gay men be troop leaders, which the Girl Scouts have not done,
and that has generated considerable backlash. I personally think that
sticking to the goals you mention would be a perfectly clear way to
operate, much as the military should (hope DADT is overturned asap so
we can get some of the best people we have to defend our troops and
country).

If "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is rescinded, there is no doubt that hundreds of
otherwise ineligible folks would join up.

What do you mean by "otherwise ineligible"? The military is already
accepting functional illiterates, ex-cons, and others who can't get
civilian jobs out of desperation to get troops over into the war
zones. And has discharged a number of gay linguists who could speak
Arabic and Farsi, languages vital to efforts supporting our national
security.

By some estimates, however, as
many as two million members of the armed services (out of three million)
would separate themselves from the service at the first opportunity.

I believe you wax hyperbolic. I also think you greatly underestimate
the ability of intelligent people to bond over common cause and
service to our nation.

Having gays in the infantry is, in my view, not a good idea. We just can't
take weeks to kill an enemy soldier!

What? Please translate that last sentence; it makes no sense.

Doug Miller wrote:
My son A.J. finished his Eagle Scout project today: construction and
installation of the Stations of the Cross on the grounds of Cardinal Ritter
High School (his alma mater) and St. Michael's Catholic Church here in
Indianapolis.

(Note to non-Catholics: the Stations of the Cross is a devotional intended to
encourage meditation on the sufferings and death of Jesus Christ. It consists
of fourteen icons depicting various events during His Passion, beginning with
his condemnation by Pilate, leading up to and ending with his body being laid
in the tomb.)

Photos of the completed project he
http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/u...view=slideshow

Project concept, design, and management by my son.
Scrollsaw work by my wife.
Construction and installation by my son and over a dozen volunteer helpers.
Special thanks to Carter-Lee Lumber Company of Indianapolis
www.carterlee.com for their very generous donation of *all* of the lumber
used in this project.



Doug, you have a fine young man for a son, anyone
who says different is a jerk. I wish there were
many more young folks like you son out there. I
understand your pride and your wish to share it.
You have every right to brag, perhaps you had a
little bit to do with it. *snicker*

TDD

I was asking for acute angle. I had to lose some wait, cause
I was considered obtuse.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
...

But, and this is a big "but," to the degree that any faith
inspires and
comforts, any activity that promotes that faith and belief
is,
intrinsically, good. Any religion that promotes charity,
good works,
justice, respect, protection of the weak and chastisement
for the wicked is
a good and holy road to God - even if it digresses from time
to time to
contemplate angles and pins.

A man died, having all his wealth converted to gold. And
burried with him. As he gets to the pearly gates, dragging
his incredibly heavy suitcase with him, and looking around,
a bit paranoid.

St. Peter greeted him at the pearly gates. Assured him his
gold was safe, there was no theft in Heaven. The guy came
in, and still dragging his suitcase behind.

As he got out of hearing range, St. Peter turned to the
other angel, and asked "what's with that guy and his
suitcase full of paving stones?"

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
...

The New Testament says that the streets of heaven are paved
with gold.
Whether they're paved with gold or whether they're paved
with mud, they are
what they are and none of our piety or wit can cancel half a
line. We are of
THIS world, not the world to come.