I'm having a strange problem with the A/C (a heat pump). One night
near the end of last summer we had some lightning. The next day our
upstairs A/C started blowing hot air so I called the A/C repair. They
topped off the coolant, replaced the capacitor. They also said that
the thermostat was calling for the heat strips, so the thermostat was
replaced. The A/C was working. A day or two later the A/C was not
blowing cool air. I determined that the compressor was running but
the fan compressor was not turning. But the problem was intermittent.
Anyhow they came back out and replaced the fan motor. It worked for
about two weeks, but it was always noisier than the old one they took
out. Then it quit working some of the time, but the problem was again
intermittent. I had a hard time getting the fan to quit turning when
they were out here, but finally it happened. They said that the motor
they had put in was defective, and they put in another one. This
motor was quieter than the one they replaced. This was near the end
of summer, so soon we didn't need cooling anymore. They made a total
of five trips.

Skip to about two weeks ago, once again cooling is needed. It was
working, but I heard it make a loud noise, and the compressor fan
stopped turning again. (One of the copper tubes also gets pretty hot
when this happens.) This was in the middle of the afternoon. I
thought that maybe the fan had gotten too hot or something. I turned
it off and then tried it about six hours later, at night. The fan
would not start turning. I waited until the night of the next day and
tried it again - the fan would not start. Then it was cool for about
a week and cooling was not needed. At this point I thought that it
was never going to come on and I was going to call the repairmen
again, but I was waiting for hot weather again. But then my daughter
turned it on a few days ago and it has been working ever since.

That is a shortened version of the story. I also tried some
experiments. It is on a setback thermostat, which was set to allow
the temp to go to 81 during the day and then cool down to 79 at 5PM. I
thought that it may be trying to do too much work in the process and
overheating. I tried keeping it set on 79 to reduce the strain at
5PM. Sometimes it would work, others it would quit. I tried keeping
it on 77 with the same results - sometimes the fan ran, sometimes it
did not.

What can be the cause of this behavior? Keep in mind that we had some
lightning just before the problem started so it may be electrical, but
the thermostat has been replaced and the motor has been replaced
twice.


--
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Makes me wonder if there is a circuit board in there some
where.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jud McCranie" wrote in
message ...
I'm having a strange problem with the A/C (a heat pump).
One night
near the end of last summer we had some lightning. The next
day our
upstairs A/C started blowing hot air so I called the A/C
repair. They
topped off the coolant, replaced the capacitor. They also
said that
the thermostat was calling for the heat strips, so the
thermostat was
replaced. The A/C was working. A day or two later the A/C
was not
blowing cool air. I determined that the compressor was
running but
the fan compressor was not turning. But the problem was
intermittent.
Anyhow they came back out and replaced the fan motor. It
worked for
about two weeks, but it was always noisier than the old one
they took
out. Then it quit working some of the time, but the problem
was again
intermittent. I had a hard time getting the fan to quit
turning when
they were out here, but finally it happened. They said that
the motor
they had put in was defective, and they put in another one.
This
motor was quieter than the one they replaced. This was near
the end
of summer, so soon we didn't need cooling anymore. They
made a total
of five trips.

Skip to about two weeks ago, once again cooling is needed.
It was
working, but I heard it make a loud noise, and the
compressor fan
stopped turning again. (One of the copper tubes also gets
pretty hot
when this happens.) This was in the middle of the
afternoon. I
thought that maybe the fan had gotten too hot or something.
I turned
it off and then tried it about six hours later, at night.
The fan
would not start turning. I waited until the night of the
next day and
tried it again - the fan would not start. Then it was cool
for about
a week and cooling was not needed. At this point I thought
that it
was never going to come on and I was going to call the
repairmen
again, but I was waiting for hot weather again. But then my
daughter
turned it on a few days ago and it has been working ever
since.

That is a shortened version of the story. I also tried some
experiments. It is on a setback thermostat, which was set
to allow
the temp to go to 81 during the day and then cool down to 79
at 5PM. I
thought that it may be trying to do too much work in the
process and
overheating. I tried keeping it set on 79 to reduce the
strain at
5PM. Sometimes it would work, others it would quit. I
tried keeping
it on 77 with the same results - sometimes the fan ran,
sometimes it
did not.

What can be the cause of this behavior? Keep in mind that
we had some
lightning just before the problem started so it may be
electrical, but
the thermostat has been replaced and the motor has been
replaced
twice.


--
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On Tue 26 May 2009 06:55:55p, Jud McCranie told us...

I'm having a strange problem with the A/C (a heat pump). One night
near the end of last summer we had some lightning. The next day our
upstairs A/C started blowing hot air so I called the A/C repair. They
topped off the coolant, replaced the capacitor. They also said that
the thermostat was calling for the heat strips, so the thermostat was
replaced. The A/C was working. A day or two later the A/C was not
blowing cool air. I determined that the compressor was running but
the fan compressor was not turning. But the problem was intermittent.
Anyhow they came back out and replaced the fan motor. It worked for
about two weeks, but it was always noisier than the old one they took
out. Then it quit working some of the time, but the problem was again
intermittent. I had a hard time getting the fan to quit turning when
they were out here, but finally it happened. They said that the motor
they had put in was defective, and they put in another one. This
motor was quieter than the one they replaced. This was near the end
of summer, so soon we didn't need cooling anymore. They made a total
of five trips.

Skip to about two weeks ago, once again cooling is needed. It was
working, but I heard it make a loud noise, and the compressor fan
stopped turning again. (One of the copper tubes also gets pretty hot
when this happens.) This was in the middle of the afternoon. I
thought that maybe the fan had gotten too hot or something. I turned
it off and then tried it about six hours later, at night. The fan
would not start turning. I waited until the night of the next day and
tried it again - the fan would not start. Then it was cool for about
a week and cooling was not needed. At this point I thought that it
was never going to come on and I was going to call the repairmen
again, but I was waiting for hot weather again. But then my daughter
turned it on a few days ago and it has been working ever since.

That is a shortened version of the story. I also tried some
experiments. It is on a setback thermostat, which was set to allow
the temp to go to 81 during the day and then cool down to 79 at 5PM. I
thought that it may be trying to do too much work in the process and
overheating. I tried keeping it set on 79 to reduce the strain at
5PM. Sometimes it would work, others it would quit. I tried keeping
it on 77 with the same results - sometimes the fan ran, sometimes it
did not.

What can be the cause of this behavior? Keep in mind that we had some
lightning just before the problem started so it may be electrical, but
the thermostat has been replaced and the motor has been replaced
twice.

I can't address lightning and a/c or heat pump, but after we had a
lightning strike, most of our electronic devices were either fried or
damaged. This, even with whole house and individual surge suppressors.
Even after costly repairs, various problems continued. We finally just
replaced everything, as repairs were overrunning the cost of new equipment.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The trouble with eating Italian food is that five or six days later
you're hungry again. ~George Miller

On Wed, 27 May 2009 02:46:58 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

Even after costly repairs, various problems continued. We finally just
replaced everything, as repairs were overrunning the cost of new equipment.

That's not what I wanted to hear :-(
I don't know that we did get hit by lightening - nothing else was
affected. But there was lightning in the area, and the thermostat was
acting strangely.
--
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On Tue, 26 May 2009 22:24:32 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Makes me wonder if there is a circuit board in there some
where.

I don't know. It is about 9 years old.
--
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On Tue, 26 May 2009 22:24:32 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Makes me wonder if there is a circuit board in there some
where.

When the compressor fan is running and stops (while the compressor is
still running), it makes a big noise, as if something mechanical is
wrong. Also, if it won't start, it makes a noise (not as large).
--
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Jud McCranie wrote:

I'm having a strange problem with the A/C (a heat pump). One night
near the end of last summer we had some lightning. The next day our
upstairs A/C started blowing hot air so I called the A/C repair. They
topped off the coolant, replaced the capacitor. They also said that
the thermostat was calling for the heat strips, so the thermostat was
replaced. The A/C was working. A day or two later the A/C was not
blowing cool air. I determined that the compressor was running but
the fan compressor was not turning. But the problem was intermittent.
Anyhow they came back out and replaced the fan motor.
snip

Are you sure they used the right (and a good quality) capacitor?

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Tue 26 May 2009 08:21:44p, Jud McCranie told us...

On Wed, 27 May 2009 02:46:58 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

Even after costly repairs, various problems continued. We finally just
replaced everything, as repairs were overrunning the cost of new
equipment.

That's not what I wanted to hear :-(
I don't know that we did get hit by lightening - nothing else was
affected. But there was lightning in the area, and the thermostat was
acting strangely.

I sympathize, Jud, but it may prove to be an unfortunate and unpleasant
reality. If it were me I would monitor the accumulated expenses and, at
the same time, price out a new replacement unit.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody seems more obsessed by diet than our anti ~materialistic,
otherworldly, New Age spiritual types. But if the material world
is merely illusion, an honest guru should be as content with
Budweiser and bratwurst as with raw carrot juice, tofu and seaweed
slime. ~Edward Abbey

On Tue, 26 May 2009 22:32:01 -0500, CJT wrote:

Are you sure they used the right (and a good quality) capacitor?

No, I have no way of knowing that. Could that cause these symptoms?

They did take all of the data about the model of the unit, so I assume
they put in the right one. But they did use a low-quality motor, so
they may have done the same with the capacitor.

Seems like just about every time I've have A/C repair through the
years (here and elsewhere), they replace the capacitor.
--
Replace you know what by j to email

In article , (Jud McCranie) writes:

| I'm having a strange problem with the A/C (a heat pump). One night
| near the end of last summer we had some lightning. The next day our
| upstairs A/C started blowing hot air so I called the A/C repair. They
| topped off the coolant, replaced the capacitor. They also said that
| the thermostat was calling for the heat strips, so the thermostat was
| replaced. The A/C was working. A day or two later the A/C was not
| blowing cool air. I determined that the compressor was running but
| the fan compressor was not turning. But the problem was intermittent.
| Anyhow they came back out and replaced the fan motor. It worked for
| about two weeks, but it was always noisier than the old one they took
| out. Then it quit working some of the time, but the problem was again
| intermittent. I had a hard time getting the fan to quit turning when
| they were out here, but finally it happened. They said that the motor
| they had put in was defective, and they put in another one. This
| motor was quieter than the one they replaced. This was near the end
| of summer, so soon we didn't need cooling anymore. They made a total
| of five trips.
|
| Skip to about two weeks ago, once again cooling is needed. It was
| working, but I heard it make a loud noise, and the compressor fan
| stopped turning again.

It seems unlikely that you had three bad fan motors. Given that it is
a heat pump, the obvious guess is that a damaged defrost controller is
erroneously entering defrost mode. On my heat pump defrost mode turns
off the outside fan and turns on the secondary heat (heat strips in
your case). You might want to check whether your heat pump is (was?)
wired to be able to energize the heat strips during a defrost cycle.

I have one of the auxiliary indicator LEDs on my thermostat connected to
the secondary heat line. The thermostat already has an LED to indicate
that it is calling for secondary heat and this LED is conveniently _not_
turned on when something else (in this case the heat pump's defrost control)
drives the secondary heat line. The combination of the two LEDs makes it
easy to notice when something funny is going on.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

On May 26, 8:55*pm, Jud McCranie
wrote:
I'm having a strange problem with the A/C (a heat pump). *One night
near the end of last summer we had some lightning. *The next day our
upstairs A/C started blowing hot air so I called the A/C repair. *They
topped off the coolant, replaced the capacitor. *They also said that
the thermostat was calling for the heat strips, so the thermostat was
replaced. *The A/C was working. *A day or two later the A/C was not
blowing cool air. *I determined that the compressor was running but
the fan compressor was not turning. *But the problem was intermittent.
Anyhow they came back out and replaced the fan motor. *It worked for
about two weeks, but it was always noisier than the old one they took
out. Then it quit working some of the time, but the problem was again
intermittent. *I had a hard time getting the fan to quit turning when
they were out here, but finally it happened. *They said that the motor
they had put in was defective, and they put in another one. *This
motor was quieter than the one they replaced. *This was near the end
of summer, so soon we didn't need cooling anymore. *They made a total
of five trips.

Skip to about two weeks ago, once again cooling is needed. *It was
working, but I heard it make a loud noise, and the compressor fan
stopped turning again. *(One of the copper tubes also gets pretty hot
when this happens.) *This was in the middle of the afternoon. *I
thought that maybe the fan had gotten too hot or something. *I turned
it off and then tried it about six hours later, at night. *The fan
would not start turning. *I waited until the night of the next day and
tried it again - the fan would not start. *Then it was cool for about
a week and cooling was not needed. *At this point I thought that it
was never going to come on and I was going to call the repairmen
again, but I was waiting for hot weather again. *But then my daughter
turned it on a few days ago and it has been working ever since.

That is a shortened version of the story. *I also tried some
experiments. *It is on a setback thermostat, which was set to allow
the temp to go to 81 during the day and then cool down to 79 at 5PM. I
thought that it may be trying to do too much work in the process and
overheating. *I tried keeping it set on 79 to reduce the strain at
5PM. *Sometimes it would work, others it would quit. *I tried keeping
it on 77 with the same results - sometimes the fan ran, sometimes it
did not.

What can be the cause of this behavior? *Keep in mind that we had some
lightning just before the problem started so it may be electrical, but
the thermostat has been replaced and the motor has been replaced
twice.

--
Replace you know what by j to email

Lightning, it destroyed my AC and house electronics, call your
insurance co and see what they say even though you are late. Lightning
strikes are recorded, it can be proven or disproven it happened on
that day if data is still stored. I would be suprised if the data is
not still stored somewhere, insurance companies use it. Get a pro out
it could be an expensive fix.

On 27 May 2009 06:02:30 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:

It seems unlikely that you had three bad fan motors. Given that it is
a heat pump, the obvious guess is that a damaged defrost controller is
erroneously entering defrost mode. On my heat pump defrost mode turns
off the outside fan and turns on the secondary heat (heat strips in
your case). You might want to check whether your heat pump is (was?)
wired to be able to energize the heat strips during a defrost cycle.

I haven't heard of defrost mode before, but that is making sense. The
repairman said that the old thermostat (now replaced) was calling for
the heat strips. This A/C is for a small upstairs, and when it is not
working, at the bottom of the stairwell you can feel warm air coming
down. So it may still be turning on the heat strips.
--
Replace you know what by j to email

On Wed, 27 May 2009 04:20:03 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:
Lightning, it destroyed my AC and house electronics, call your
insurance co and see what they say even though you are late.

We have a high deductibles.
--
Replace you know what by j to email

On May 27, 3:26*pm, Jud McCranie
wrote:
On Wed, 27 May 2009 04:20:03 -0700 (PDT), ransley

wrote:
Lightning, it destroyed my AC and house electronics, call your
insurance co and see what they say even though you are late.

We have a high deductibles.
--
Replace you know what by j to email

It could cost more than you ever imagined, a new unit.

On Wed, 27 May 2009 17:19:11 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

It could cost more than you ever imagined, a new unit.

Yes, A whole new unit would cost more than the deducible.
--
Replace you know what by j to email

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 May 2009 21:55:55 -0400, Jud McCranie
wrote:

I'm having a strange problem with the A/C (a heat pump). One night
near the end of last summer we had some lightning. The next day our
upstairs A/C started blowing hot air so I called the A/C repair. They
topped off the coolant, replaced the capacitor. They also said that
the thermostat was calling for the heat strips, so the thermostat was
replaced. The A/C was working. A day or two later the A/C was not
blowing cool air. I determined that the compressor was running but
the fan compressor was not turning. But the problem was intermittent.
Anyhow they came back out and replaced the fan motor. It worked for
about two weeks, but it was always noisier than the old one they took
out. Then it quit working some of the time, but the problem was again
intermittent. I had a hard time getting the fan to quit turning when
they were out here, but finally it happened. They said that the motor
they had put in was defective, and they put in another one. This
motor was quieter than the one they replaced. This was near the end
of summer, so soon we didn't need cooling anymore. They made a total
of five trips.

Skip to about two weeks ago, once again cooling is needed. It was
working, but I heard it make a loud noise, and the compressor fan
stopped turning again. (One of the copper tubes also gets pretty hot
when this happens.) This was in the middle of the afternoon. I
thought that maybe the fan had gotten too hot or something. I turned
it off and then tried it about six hours later, at night. The fan
would not start turning. I waited until the night of the next day and
tried it again - the fan would not start. Then it was cool for about
a week and cooling was not needed. At this point I thought that it
was never going to come on and I was going to call the repairmen
again, but I was waiting for hot weather again. But then my daughter
turned it on a few days ago and it has been working ever since.

That is a shortened version of the story. I also tried some
experiments. It is on a setback thermostat, which was set to allow
the temp to go to 81 during the day and then cool down to 79 at 5PM. I
thought that it may be trying to do too much work in the process and
overheating. I tried keeping it set on 79 to reduce the strain at
5PM. Sometimes it would work, others it would quit. I tried keeping
it on 77 with the same results - sometimes the fan ran, sometimes it
did not.

What can be the cause of this behavior? Keep in mind that we had some
lightning just before the problem started so it may be electrical, but
the thermostat has been replaced and the motor has been replaced
twice.

Jud,
It could be lots of things. But first and foremost, why dont you find
a company that doesnt just change parts at your expense? Its really
not rocket science. You just need to find someone good at what they
do. You've been using parts changers. That gets expensive. Ask your
neighbors, co-workers, clubs, groups who they use and who they would
recommend.
Bubba

Bubba's advice is right on. There is no point in replacing an entire unit
just because the defective part has not been determined. Intermittent
problems are more difficult, but not impossible for a good troubleshooter.

Don Young

On Wed, 27 May 2009 20:38:14 -0400, Bubba
wrote:

It could be lots of things. But first and foremost, why dont you find
a company that doesnt just change parts at your expense? Its really
not rocket science. You just need to find someone good at what they
do. You've been using parts changers. That gets expensive. Ask your
neighbors, co-workers, clubs, groups who they use and who they would
recommend.

These were recommended to me, but there is one NATE certified place.
--
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On Tue, 26 May 2009 21:55:55 -0400, Jud McCranie
wrote:

I'm having a strange problem with the A/C (a heat pump). ...

A few more days have gone by, and it seemed to be working until a few
minutes ago I noticed a strange smell coming down the stairwell (which
has been an indicator before). The compressor fan was turning but the
thermostat was set to 79 and it was 81, and had been running a while.
I suspect that the heat strips are on, which makes the smell.

I don't really need the heat strips upstairs anyway. Is this
something the layman can disconnect?

--
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In article , (Jud McCranie) writes:
| On Tue, 26 May 2009 21:55:55 -0400, Jud McCranie
| wrote:
|
| I'm having a strange problem with the A/C (a heat pump). ...
|
| A few more days have gone by, and it seemed to be working until a few
| minutes ago I noticed a strange smell coming down the stairwell (which
| has been an indicator before). The compressor fan was turning but the
| thermostat was set to 79 and it was 81, and had been running a while.
| I suspect that the heat strips are on, which makes the smell.
|
| I don't really need the heat strips upstairs anyway. Is this
| something the layman can disconnect?

Probably, but I'd still be concerned about what is turning them on.
If it is a damaged defrost control as I previously suggested it might
return to its behavior of shutting off the outside fan. Maybe it had
done that and you didn't notice the smell until after the cycle was
complete and the fan turned back on.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

On 29 May 2009 20:55:36 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:

Probably, but I'd still be concerned about what is turning them on.
If it is a damaged defrost control as I previously suggested it might
return to its behavior of shutting off the outside fan.

Until I can have it checked out, can the heat strips be disconnected
at the thermostat? Does the defrost controller tell the thermostat to
turn on the heat strips? Last year the repairman said that the
thermostat was calling for aux heat. It could have been the defrost
controller telling the thermostat to do that?
--
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On Sun, 31 May 2009 12:56:32 -0400, Jud McCranie
wrote:

Until I can have it checked out, can the heat strips be disconnected
at the thermostat?

We might have replaced a perfectly good thermostat last year because
of this. And the old one was a lot better than the ones available
now. The old one had a lot of buttons and switches to use. The new
one has few buttons and a lot of menus on an LCD screen. The stuff is
very hard to read too - I have to get out my reading glasses and shine
a flashlight in there in order to even see it.
--
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In article , (Jud McCranie) writes:
| On 29 May 2009 20:55:36 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
|
| Probably, but I'd still be concerned about what is turning them on.
| If it is a damaged defrost control as I previously suggested it might
| return to its behavior of shutting off the outside fan.
|
| Until I can have it checked out, can the heat strips be disconnected
| at the thermostat?

It depends on how the wires are run. On my system (ignoring for the
moment control wiring that I've added) there is a wire from the outside
unit to the inside air handler and another from the thermostat to the
air handler. To disconnect the secondary heat I'd have to unsplice
the wires at the air handler.

| Does the defrost controller tell the thermostat to
| turn on the heat strips?

That's very unlikely.

| Last year the repairman said that the
| thermostat was calling for aux heat. It could have been the defrost
| controller telling the thermostat to do that?

It could have been the defrost control turning on the heat strips
directly. Keeping track of such things is why I have the extra
LED hooked up...

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com