We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows. The old wood
windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
the storm windows. We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood). We've talked
with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
vinyl windows to clad wood windows. They claim that the vinyl windows
will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty. Both of the
window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
houses.

The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive. And of course
after installation I'd have to paint the interiors. The ones we got
an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).

Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
vinyl? Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood? I had
heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
vinyl frame windows wouldn't last. But the warranty is better on the
vinyl. (One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
service. The other one has been around since the 80's.) I assume
that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
same: none.

We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
it. Any comments on this sort of product?

On Apr 28, 8:55*am, "
wrote:
We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows. *The old wood
windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
the storm windows. *We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood). *We've talked
with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
vinyl windows to clad wood windows. *They claim that the vinyl windows
will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty. *Both of the
window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
houses.

The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive. *And of course
after installation I'd have to paint the interiors. *The ones we got
an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).

Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
vinyl? *Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood? * I had
heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
vinyl frame windows wouldn't last. *But the warranty is better on the
vinyl. *(One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
service. *The other one has been around since the 80's.) * I assume
that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
same: none.

We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
it. *Any comments on this sort of product?

The window brands you mentioned are unknown in our area. They may be
good quality or not, but window makers come and go, some often unable
to survive long because of quality or installation issues. It would be
prudent to research the companies involved for longevity as well.
Major firms like Andersen are offering replacement windows and sashes
at competitive prices and could be a good benchmark for comparing
bids. Good luck.

Joe

wrote:
We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows. The old wood
windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
the storm windows. We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood). We've talked
with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
vinyl windows to clad wood windows. They claim that the vinyl windows
will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty. Both of the
window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
houses.

The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive. And of course
after installation I'd have to paint the interiors. The ones we got
an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).

Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
vinyl? Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood? I had
heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
vinyl frame windows wouldn't last. But the warranty is better on the
vinyl. (One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
service. The other one has been around since the 80's.) I assume
that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
same: none.

We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
it. Any comments on this sort of product?

One thing to look for --- can the glass be replaced in the sash/window
frame --- or do you have to go back to the manufacturer, if they are still
in business and if they still make the vinyl profiles that fit your windows.
Since double pane insulated glass has a finite life, sometimes they can fail
after very few months, the ability to replace the glass will allow the
windows to continue to be useable and not require replacement. If the glass
is fused or heat welded into the sash/window frame, I would run not walk
from the product, because you never know if the supplier will be around next
year, whatever the installer says.

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:55:40 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows. The old wood
windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
the storm windows. We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood). We've talked
with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
vinyl windows to clad wood windows. They claim that the vinyl windows
will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty. Both of the
window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
houses.

The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive. And of course
after installation I'd have to paint the interiors. The ones we got
an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).

Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
vinyl? Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood? I had
heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
vinyl frame windows wouldn't last. But the warranty is better on the
vinyl. (One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
service. The other one has been around since the 80's.) I assume
that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
same: none.

We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
it. Any comments on this sort of product?
There are/were vynyl windows with woodgrain textured and coloured
vinyl on the inside.
I think Fenergic was one manufacturer (Warwick Quebec) but I can't say
for sure . They were one of five suppliers the company I worked for
dealt with, and they did provide some rather unique solutions. There
is alco aluminum capped vinyl IIRC.

As for wood vs vinyl, I had the choice and went with high end vinyl.
It will never split, warp, or rot. Cheap vinyl is a different story -
it might not last over 20 years. I think my Rehau product is almost 20
years old now and every bit as good today as the day it was installed.
Not a single pane has lost a seal yet either (SurLite units out of
Concord Ont).

I also have one Bonneville "ThermoWood" window that I put in because
it was a stock item at the "borg" when the original window needed
replacement NOW. A crappy window in comparison. It is wood cored
vinyl, or vinyl covered wood, however you want to look at it.

My patio door is also a vynyl outer, wood core construction, kinda
like a golf ball!!.
It has stood up well but it's on the south side so doesn't get the
weather abuse it would on the other side of the house. Only problem is
the weatherstrip got all hard and fragile and I have not been able to
source a proper replacement.

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:36:19 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:

wrote:
We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows. The old wood
windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
the storm windows. We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood). We've talked
with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
vinyl windows to clad wood windows. They claim that the vinyl windows
will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty. Both of the
window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
houses.

The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive. And of course
after installation I'd have to paint the interiors. The ones we got
an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).

Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
vinyl? Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood? I had
heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
vinyl frame windows wouldn't last. But the warranty is better on the
vinyl. (One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
service. The other one has been around since the 80's.) I assume
that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
same: none.

We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
it. Any comments on this sort of product?

One thing to look for --- can the glass be replaced in the sash/window
frame --- or do you have to go back to the manufacturer, if they are still
in business and if they still make the vinyl profiles that fit your windows.
Since double pane insulated glass has a finite life, sometimes they can fail
after very few months, the ability to replace the glass will allow the
windows to continue to be useable and not require replacement. If the glass
is fused or heat welded into the sash/window frame, I would run not walk
from the product, because you never know if the supplier will be around next
year, whatever the installer says.
I've never seen the glass heat welded into the frame. but I HAVE seen
frames that need to be dismantled to get the glass out. I prefer units
where a small vinyl peice pops out to allow the glass to be removed.
If removed carefully they can be re-used many times (if they are
quality vinyl - cheap crap will crack) even if the propfile is no
longer available.
Going with a major brand profile (like Rehau) gives you a better
choice. I believe my windows were built by Euro-Vinyl , using Rehau
Profile stock.

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:55:40 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
vinyl? Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood?

In the desert wood, dries up. New homes have vinyl windows, unless it
is a custom home and wood is the choice.

For easy installs -- Check:

http://www.certainteed.com/

Andersen would be my preferred window, bar none!

"Gordon Shumway" wrote in message
...
I think you just answered your question. It's your preference.

G.S.


On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:55:40 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house

Really...Why even bother asking ??? Just looking for an "atta boy from
others to good to "tolerate" vinyl???

In article
,
" wrote:

One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
since 1908

To hell with the windows, ask the fellow what kind of vitamins he's
taking.

On Apr 28, 11:51*am, ransley wrote:


You dont mention brands I know. Off brand cheap can be trouble.
Consumer reports had an old article on maybe 20 windows tested that
included construction, use and durability. There are alot of ratings
for tests used *to determine window performance of frame and glass, id
suggest you learn and use them. Glass is not equal and warrantys
count, but instalation can cause a warranty to be worthless from day
one as I personaly found out.www.energystar.gov* might help you
learn and pick whats best.

I have looked at the article consumer reports published a couple years
ago. They systematically rank vinyl windows as inferior to wood
windows on their ability to resist wind and rain. (No vinyl window
scores an "excellent" on any of these tests.) But they don't review
any vinyl window that the local dealers sell. If premium vinyl is
better then perhaps the problem as the CR only looked at the low end
of the market. They do also tend to rank vinyl windows as more
durable than wood frame windows (based on a test that lasted one
week).

When you say that installation makes the warranty worthless do you
mean that the windows were incorrectly installed? What did they do
wrong? I didn't see much on energystar.gov of note. Pretty much all
the windows have the same insulation statistics because everybody is
trying to meet the tax credit requirements.

On Apr 28, 2:23*pm, Gordon Shumway wrote:
I think you just answered your question. *It's your preference.

My preference is for windows that will last a long time, will continue
to operate, won't decline in efficiency, and won't leak air now or ten
years from now. Unfortunately, these things are not evident when I
look at a window. Are you saying that clad wood and vinyl are
absolutely equivalent on these measures and that therefore I can make
my decision based entirely on aesthetics or cost?

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:55:40 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

....


We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
it. Any comments on this sort of product?

No need to. The windows I have are wood frames with vinyl
cladding on the outside. Looks and feels good with no painting.

wrote:
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:55:40 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

...


We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
it. Any comments on this sort of product?

No need to. The windows I have are wood frames with vinyl
cladding on the outside. Looks and feels good with no painting.

I've followed this thread from inception but deleted previous posts. I find
it odd that one would clad wood with either aluminium or vinyl, neither of
which breath which timber needs in order not to rot.

Here in the UK, there has been a major business for the last thirty years,
and I suspect will continue to be for many years to come, of replacing
timber framed single glazed windows by initially in the 60s and 70s
aluminium framed doubled glazed windows. This quite quickly went out of
favour because of the interior condensation and cold spots caused by the
aluminium.

During the 70s, uPVC (vinyl) replaced aluminium as the frame of choice,
avoiding the cold spots.

The estate I live on was built between 25 and 30 years ago. The majority of
the windows at that time were timber framed either single or double glazed.
Mine were timber with double glazing. Over the years, the seals on the
double glazing started to fail and rot of the timber, though a lesser issue,
started to become a problem. I, like many of my neighbours, chose to replace
all the windows with vinyl frames and double glazing. Result - lower
exterior noise, warmer rooms without cold spots, no condensation and no need
to use ladders to paint the exteriors.

I've lived in the house from new (1982, I think) and am now an Old Fart. I
don't want to climb ladders to paint the exterior and live in hope that my
decision was right!

I have no problem with vinyl on the interior, though I have chosen to have
wooden cills to the windows. Just looks better for me when the curtains are
closed!

adrian wrote:
On Apr 28, 11:51 am, ransley wrote:

You dont mention brands I know. Off brand cheap can be trouble.
Consumer reports had an old article on maybe 20 windows tested that
included construction, use and durability. There are alot of ratings
for tests used to determine window performance of frame and glass, id
suggest you learn and use them. Glass is not equal and warrantys
count, but instalation can cause a warranty to be worthless from day
one as I personaly found out.www.energystar.gov might help you
learn and pick whats best.

I have looked at the article consumer reports published a couple years
ago. They systematically rank vinyl windows as inferior to wood
windows on their ability to resist wind and rain. (No vinyl window
scores an "excellent" on any of these tests.) But they don't review
any vinyl window that the local dealers sell. If premium vinyl is
better then perhaps the problem as the CR only looked at the low end
of the market. They do also tend to rank vinyl windows as more
durable than wood frame windows (based on a test that lasted one
week).

When you say that installation makes the warranty worthless do you
mean that the windows were incorrectly installed? What did they do
wrong? I didn't see much on energystar.gov of note. Pretty much all
the windows have the same insulation statistics because everybody is
trying to meet the tax credit requirements.

Guess I'm old fashioned, but I still can't regard vinyl windows as real
windows. Maybe if somebody can show me a 50 year old vinyl one that
still works, I may change my mind. I routinely see 100 year old wood
windows that still work. Sure, they take more PM, but if you do the
upkeep, they basically last forever.

--
aem sends...

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 00:32:33 +0100, "Clot"
wrote:

wrote:
...

No need to. The windows I have are wood frames with vinyl
cladding on the outside. Looks and feels good with no painting.

I've followed this thread from inception but deleted previous posts. I find
it odd that one would clad wood with either aluminium or vinyl, neither of
which breath which timber needs in order not to rot.


The windows I have and was referring to are only clad on the
outside, not the inside so they do breath.

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:55:40 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

We're considering replacement windows for 50 year old wood frame
windows and some not so old aluminum frame windows. The old wood
windows are difficult/impossible to open and somewhat leaky despite
the storm windows. We figured that we wanted wood frame windows with
some weatherproof exterior (e.g. aluminum clad wood). We've talked
with two window places so far, and the window guys strongly prefer
vinyl windows to clad wood windows. They claim that the vinyl windows
will last longer, as indicated by the superior warranty. Both of the
window guys claim that they personally installed vinyl in their
houses.

The clad wood windows are definitely more expensive. And of course
after installation I'd have to paint the interiors. The ones we got
an estimate for (Semco) are also somewhat more difficult to open and
close than the vinyl (BF Rich, Vytex).

Does anybody have any thoughts on the question of clad wood vs.
vinyl? Will the vinyl *really* last as long as the clad wood? I had
heard years ago that vinyl was not a good structural material and that
vinyl frame windows wouldn't last. But the warranty is better on the
vinyl. (One of the guys who gave me an estimate has been in business
since 1908 so it seems like they might still be around for warranty
service. The other one has been around since the 80's.) I assume
that the maintenance of aluminum clad wood and vinyl should be the
same: none.

We're not sure we can tolerate looking at vinyl inside the house, and
another curious option that has come up is vinyl with wood veneer on
it. Any comments on this sort of product?

What about vinyl wrapped wood? The vinyl protects the wood against
moisture damage. I like wood too, but when wood gets soaking wet, it
twists, warps, and swells. Wood has better insulating properties
than metal or vinyl so they sweat less in winter. I have aluminum
frame windows and they can sweat when outdoor temperatures fall below
20.

On Apr 29, 11:49*am, adrian wrote:
On Apr 28, 11:51*am, ransley wrote:



You dont mention brands I know. Off brand cheap can be trouble.
Consumer reports had an old article on maybe 20 windows tested that
included construction, use and durability. There are alot of ratings
for tests used *to determine window performance of frame and glass, id
suggest you learn and use them. Glass is not equal and warrantys
count, but instalation can cause a warranty to be worthless from day
one as I personaly found out.www.energystar.gov*might help you
learn and pick whats best.

I have looked at the article consumer reports published a couple years
ago. *They systematically rank vinyl windows as inferior to wood
windows on their ability to resist wind and rain. *(No vinyl window
scores an "excellent" on any of these tests.) *But they don't review
any vinyl window that the local dealers sell. *If premium vinyl is
better then perhaps the problem as the CR only looked at the low end
of the market. * They do also tend to rank vinyl windows as more
durable than wood frame windows (based on a test that lasted one
week).

When you say that installation makes the warranty worthless do you
mean that the windows were incorrectly installed? * What did they do
wrong? *I didn't see much on energystar.gov of note. *Pretty much all
the windows have the same insulation statistics because everybody is
trying to meet the tax credit requirements.

When you say that installation makes the warranty worthless do you
mean that the windows were incorrectly installed?

Sure. Let's say the installer has a 1/8" gap on both sides of the
window and screws the frame tight to the rough opening, bowing the
frame. In addition, the window was mounted at an angle, twisting the
frame out of square.

So a few years later, after being under stress for all that time, the
seams start to let go and the window frame fails. The company sends
out an inspector who calmly denies your claim stating on his report
that "The window was not installed in accordance with the
manufacturer's installation instructions."