Apropos recent threads here about "back-stabbed" outlets, a data point:

New client, big multi-million-dollar house high up in the
Berkeley/Oakland hills, less than 15 years old, very well built, client
has good relationship with builder.

All outlets are wired through back-wire connections (*not* screw
connections). Client reports no electrical problems.

Maybe this isn't so bad as some people make it sound. It certainly seems
to be the preference of a lot of electricians who want to get the place
wired up fast.

For myself, I will continue to use the screw terminals, as I don't have
to meet any kind of schedule in my work.


--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
Apropos recent threads here about "back-stabbed" outlets, a data point:

New client, big multi-million-dollar house high up in the Berkeley/Oakland
hills, less than 15 years old, very well built, client has good
relationship with builder.

All outlets are wired through back-wire connections (*not* screw
connections). Client reports no electrical problems.

Maybe this isn't so bad as some people make it sound. It certainly seems
to be the preference of a lot of electricians who want to get the place
wired up fast.

For myself, I will continue to use the screw terminals, as I don't have to
meet any kind of schedule in my work.


--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)

When you use a back stab connection, it's very easy to push the wire in and
miss the spring clamp inside. Someone that does this hundreds of times is
more likely to be able to feel when the wire isn't inserted properly, and
correct it. Inexperienced people should always use the slower, more reliable
method of screw terminals. When I wired new houses, I routinely used back
stabs, and never had a problem. I have however, been on numerous open
circuit service calls, that were caused by back stabs.

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
Apropos recent threads here about "back-stabbed" outlets, a data point:

New client, big multi-million-dollar house high up in the Berkeley/Oakland
hills, less than 15 years old, very well built, client has good
relationship with builder.

All outlets are wired through back-wire connections (*not* screw
connections). Client reports no electrical problems.

Maybe this isn't so bad as some people make it sound. It certainly seems
to be the preference of a lot of electricians who want to get the place
wired up fast.

For myself, I will continue to use the screw terminals, as I don't have to
meet any kind of schedule in my work.



*The problems with the back-stabbed outlets usually show up on circuits with
a good load on them. On circuits where there is little load a problem may
never occur. The same thing can happen with screw terminals though it
usually takes much longer to manifest itself.

"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
Apropos recent threads here about "back-stabbed" outlets, a data point:

New client, big multi-million-dollar house high up in the
Berkeley/Oakland hills, less than 15 years old, very well built, client
has good relationship with builder.

All outlets are wired through back-wire connections (*not* screw
connections). Client reports no electrical problems.

Maybe this isn't so bad as some people make it sound. It certainly seems
to be the preference of a lot of electricians who want to get the place
wired up fast.

For myself, I will continue to use the screw terminals, as I don't have
to meet any kind of schedule in my work.



*The problems with the back-stabbed outlets usually show up on circuits
with a good load on them. On circuits where there is little load a
problem may never occur. The same thing can happen with screw terminals
though it usually takes much longer to manifest itself.


True that, limiting back stabs to 15 amp circuits was a smart NEC move

David Nebenzahl wrote:

Apropos recent threads here about "back-stabbed" outlets, a data point:

New client, big multi-million-dollar house high up in the
Berkeley/Oakland hills, less than 15 years old, very well built, client
has good relationship with builder.

All outlets are wired through back-wire connections (*not* screw
connections). Client reports no electrical problems.

Maybe this isn't so bad as some people make it sound. It certainly seems
to be the preference of a lot of electricians who want to get the place
wired up fast.

For myself, I will continue to use the screw terminals, as I don't have
to meet any kind of schedule in my work.


Are you sure that are the back-wire outlets with the spring clips, and
not the vastly superior back-clamp outlets which are usually "spec
grade"? The back-wire outlets will have the little release slot next to
the wire hole, while the back-clamp outlets will not. At quick glance
they look the same.

Pete C. wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:
Apropos recent threads here about "back-stabbed" outlets, a data point:

New client, big multi-million-dollar house high up in the
Berkeley/Oakland hills, less than 15 years old, very well built, client
has good relationship with builder.

All outlets are wired through back-wire connections (*not* screw
connections). Client reports no electrical problems.

Maybe this isn't so bad as some people make it sound. It certainly seems
to be the preference of a lot of electricians who want to get the place
wired up fast.

For myself, I will continue to use the screw terminals, as I don't have
to meet any kind of schedule in my work.


Are you sure that are the back-wire outlets with the spring clips, and
not the vastly superior back-clamp outlets which are usually "spec
grade"? The back-wire outlets will have the little release slot next to
the wire hole, while the back-clamp outlets will not. At quick glance
they look the same.

I always called the 'back-clamp' type 'back wire' outlets.
The Leviton web site says 'back wire' in their product descriptions
meaning the screw clamp type and 'quick wire push in' when showing the
'back stab' type.

One thing to remember when using the 'back clamp' type devices:
You must turn the screws all the way out if not already, then push and
hold the side screws all the way in with your fingers BEFORE inserting
the wires. Then tighten the side screws. If not done properly the wire
will end up behind the clamp and the wire will not be secure.
This goes for GFCI outlets as well which mostly all have the 'clamp'
type terminals.

Kevin

On 3/15/2009 3:32 PM Pete C. spake thus:

Are you sure that are the back-wire outlets with the spring clips, and
not the vastly superior back-clamp outlets which are usually "spec
grade"?

Yes, I know the difference. These are the garden variety side-screw ones
with the little holes on the back, not back-clamp outlets.


--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)

I live a few hundred yards from the ocean in Hawaii. My back-stabbed
connections worked fine for 25 years. But then a bit of corrosion got the
best of them and I've been rewiring as needed to use the screws.
Time will tell in Berkely/Oakland.

--
Remove -NOSPAM- to contact me.

On Sun 15 Mar 2009 09:50:41p, John Keiser told us...

I live a few hundred yards from the ocean in Hawaii. My back-stabbed
connections worked fine for 25 years. But then a bit of corrosion got the
best of them and I've been rewiring as needed to use the screws.
Time will tell in Berkely/Oakland.

We have a "custom designed" manufactured home. When I opened an existing
socket box to extend it to a new box on the wall behind it, I was happily
surprised that screw terminal connections were used. Out of curiosity, I
check numerous junction boxes and all were screw terminal connections. I
have nothing aginst the back-stab sockets and switches, but have found a wide
range of quality in these products. The better quality units probably
provide better connectivity with their back-stab hardware.

--
Wayne Boatwright

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:02:37 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

On Sun 15 Mar 2009 09:50:41p, John Keiser told us...

I live a few hundred yards from the ocean in Hawaii. My back-stabbed
connections worked fine for 25 years. But then a bit of corrosion got the
best of them and I've been rewiring as needed to use the screws.
Time will tell in Berkely/Oakland.

We have a "custom designed" manufactured home. When I opened an existing
socket box to extend it to a new box on the wall behind it, I was happily
surprised that screw terminal connections were used. Out of curiosity, I
check numerous junction boxes and all were screw terminal connections. I
have nothing aginst the back-stab sockets and switches, but have found a wide
range of quality in these products. The better quality units probably
provide better connectivity with their back-stab hardware.
No such thing as high quality back-stab.

On Mon 16 Mar 2009 12:36:28p, told us...

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:02:37 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
wrote:

On Sun 15 Mar 2009 09:50:41p, John Keiser told us...

I live a few hundred yards from the ocean in Hawaii. My back-stabbed
connections worked fine for 25 years. But then a bit of corrosion got
the best of them and I've been rewiring as needed to use the screws.
Time will tell in Berkely/Oakland.

We have a "custom designed" manufactured home. When I opened an
existing socket box to extend it to a new box on the wall behind it, I
was happily surprised that screw terminal connections were used. Out of
curiosity, I check numerous junction boxes and all were screw terminal
connections. I have nothing aginst the back-stab sockets and switches,
but have found a wide range of quality in these products. The better
quality units probably provide better connectivity with their back-stab
hardware.
No such thing as high quality back-stab.


Your opinion, of course. If you compare different brands, or even
different price points within the same brand, the back-stab mechanisms are
clearly different, and the more expensive ones are obviously more robust in
design.

--
Wayne Boatwright

"One man's meat is another man's poison"
- Oswald Dykes, English writer, 1709.