The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case apart
to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt plug in
bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male terminal spades
shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open or
the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be bad even
when it shows continuity?

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be bad
even when it shows continuity?




Make that ...NO continuity....

On Feb 21, 9:57�am, "Charlie Darwin" wrote:
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message

...

The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be bad
even when it shows continuity?

Make that ...NO continuity....

bad bulb ........

Charlie Darwin wrote:
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be bad
even when it shows continuity?




Make that ...NO continuity....


yes, NO continuity mean bad bulb. duh.

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be bad
even when it shows continuity?



*NO continuity equals a broken filament. Replace the bulb.

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be bad
even when it shows continuity?




Make that ...NO continuity....

Happens often Spend the 2 bucks for a new one.

Charlie Darwin wrote:
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case apart
to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt plug in
bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male terminal spades
shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open or
the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be bad even
when it shows continuity?



Hi,
Anything is possible. Is there proper voltage across bulb socket when
door is open?

Van Chocstraw wrote:
Charlie Darwin wrote:

The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male
terminal spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is
open or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the
bulb be bad even when it shows continuity?



Bulbs have a built in fusible link in the base. The filament can look
fine and the bulb not work.



Could be, but I'm pretty sure that ALL bulbs don't use a fusable link in
the base.

Sometimes the filament will open right where it's welded to a feed wire
and stay in position so it looks like it's continuous. Giving the bulb a
flick with your finger while observing the filament will let you see it
it jump away from the feed wire momentarily.

BTW, the fusable link was/is placed in some bulbs to avoid popping a
breaker or fuse if the bulb goes into a "tungsten arc" mode when the
filament opens. That arc can cause the bulb to draw MUCH more than it's
rated current. If you've ever flicked on a light switch and had the bulb
give one VERY bright flash and then go dark, you've witnessed a tungsten
arc.

As you've been told already, try a new bulb.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be
bad
even when it shows continuity?




Make that ...NO continuity....



You are asking if a burned-out bulb is bad? This is why I don't believe in
evolution.

If you stick it in another (more portable) lamp and flick it with your
fingernail while it is on sometimes the filament will reconnect and weld
itself back in place. This, of course, works better with DC than with AC.
I have fixed many incandesant bulbs this way.

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be bad
even when it shows continuity?




Make that ...NO continuity....


OK guys-- off to the appliance parts store. I'll post back later...

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male
terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is
open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be
bad
even when it shows continuity?




Make that ...NO continuity....



You are asking if a burned-out bulb is bad? This is why I don't believe
in
evolution.

If you stick it in another (more portable) lamp and flick it with your
fingernail while it is on sometimes the filament will reconnect and weld
itself back in place. This, of course, works better with DC than with AC.
I have fixed many incandesant bulbs this way.



Better reread the OP a bit more carefully and The Origin of the Species too
;-)

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be
bad even when it shows continuity?




Make that ...NO continuity....


OK guys-- off to the appliance parts store. I'll post back later...


Parts guy was stumped by the intact filament/no continuity too (see Van's
post). But I decided to try a new bulb (for $11.24.

It shows continuity.....and works. Thanks to all for the helpful
suggestions.

Charlie Darwin wrote:
....
Better reread ... The Origin of the Species too
;-)

Might "otter" check on the title of the work...

--

Charlie Darwin wrote:
....
Parts guy was stumped by the intact filament/no continuity too ...

Just because you the break was visible doesn't (obviously) imply it
was/is intact. Nor, of course, that the fault could be at the
connection of one end of the filament to the base, etc., ...

When it doesn't light and measures open, it's pretty clear it's defective.

--

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
Parts guy was stumped by the intact filament/no continuity too (see Van's
post). But I decided to try a new bulb (for $11.24.


What is so special about the bulb that they can get that price? You can
probably find it cheaper on the internet but then the S&H would be $10.

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:57:55 -0500, "Charlie Darwin"
wrote:

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact.

If you flick the bulb with your finger, you may see the filament
vibrate, usually only on one side of the break.

However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

What happens when you touch the meter leads to each other?

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be bad
even when it shows continuity?




Make that ...NO continuity....

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:06:25 -0500, Charlie Darwin wrote:

"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male
terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is
open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be
bad
even when it shows continuity?




Make that ...NO continuity....



You are asking if a burned-out bulb is bad? This is why I don't believe
in
evolution.

If you stick it in another (more portable) lamp and flick it with your
fingernail while it is on sometimes the filament will reconnect and weld
itself back in place. This, of course, works better with DC than with AC.
I have fixed many incandesant bulbs this way.



Better reread the OP a bit more carefully and The Origin of the Species too
;-)

What an imaginative work of fiction!

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:08:42 -0500, Charlie Darwin wrote:

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be
bad even when it shows continuity?




Make that ...NO continuity....


OK guys-- off to the appliance parts store. I'll post back later...


Parts guy was stumped by the intact filament/no continuity too (see Van's
post). But I decided to try a new bulb (for $11.24.


I just had an auto light like that. The problem was not inside the glass,
but between the glass and the mount. That is quite high for a bulb.

It shows continuity.....and works. Thanks to all for the helpful
suggestions.

Continuity means it should work. No continuity means it is broken. End of
story.

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:57:55 -0500, "Charlie Darwin"
wrote:

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact.

If you flick the bulb with your finger, you may see the filament
vibrate, usually only on one side of the break.

However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

What happens when you touch the meter leads to each other?

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be
bad
even when it shows continuity?




Make that ...NO continuity....


The filament is circular going around the circumference of the glass and is
supported by 5-6 separate wire posts -- each topped with a loop to
support/lock the filament wire.

When touching the meter leads together-- the needle deflects all the way
showing continuity.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
Parts guy was stumped by the intact filament/no continuity too (see Van's
post). But I decided to try a new bulb (for $11.24.


What is so special about the bulb that they can get that price? You can
probably find it cheaper on the internet but then the S&H would be $10.

Bulb is 25 watt, tubular, about 2 inches tall, integral plastic base with
two blades protruding beneath that slide into female connector.

The filament is circular going around the circumference of the glass and is
supported by 5-6 separate wire posts -- each topped with a loop to
support/lock the filament wire.

The parts people only had a 20 watt, about 1 1/2 inches tall. That's the one
I bought and put into the microwave.

No reason a 79 cent standard appliance bulb couldn't have been designed into
it originally-- but then again, these are the same guys that forced me to
take the entire sheet metal cover off. Good thing I had the right bit to
remove the 6 locking torx screws they used to fasten the case.


It's really ridiculous they way so many products are designed by graduate
engineers using custom/proprietary parts and sub assemblies when standard
parts would do just as well. Adds cost, complexity, assembly errors--- and
no real benefit to the end user.

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:33:55 -0500, "Charlie Darwin"
wrote:

"mm" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:57:55 -0500, "Charlie Darwin"
wrote:

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact.

If you flick the bulb with your finger, you may see the filament
vibrate, usually only on one side of the break.

However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

What happens when you touch the meter leads to each other?

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be
bad
even when it shows continuity?




Make that ...NO continuity....


The filament is circular going around the circumference of the glass and is
supported by 5-6 separate wire posts -- each topped with a loop to
support/lock the filament wire.

It still might vibrate when flicked. Depends on where it breaks.

When touching the meter leads together-- the needle deflects all the way
showing continuity.

Then your lightbulb is bad, whether the filament vibrates or not.

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
"Ulysses" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25
watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male
terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is
open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be
bad
even when it shows continuity?




Make that ...NO continuity....



You are asking if a burned-out bulb is bad? This is why I don't believe
in
evolution.

If you stick it in another (more portable) lamp and flick it with your
fingernail while it is on sometimes the filament will reconnect and weld
itself back in place. This, of course, works better with DC than with
AC.
I have fixed many incandesant bulbs this way.



Better reread the OP a bit more carefully and The Origin of the Species
too
;-)



Hmmm... I re-read it and it looks like you asked if a bulb does not light up
and shows no continuity... obviously I'm missing something here... maybe I
decended from the other race of humans :-|

In article ,
"Charlie Darwin" wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
Parts guy was stumped by the intact filament/no continuity too (see Van's
post). But I decided to try a new bulb (for $11.24.


What is so special about the bulb that they can get that price? You can
probably find it cheaper on the internet but then the S&H would be $10.

Bulb is 25 watt, tubular, about 2 inches tall, integral plastic base with
two blades protruding beneath that slide into female connector.

The filament is circular going around the circumference of the glass and is
supported by 5-6 separate wire posts -- each topped with a loop to
support/lock the filament wire.

The parts people only had a 20 watt, about 1 1/2 inches tall. That's the one
I bought and put into the microwave.

No reason a 79 cent standard appliance bulb couldn't have been designed into
it originally-- but then again, these are the same guys that forced me to
take the entire sheet metal cover off. Good thing I had the right bit to
remove the 6 locking torx screws they used to fasten the case.


It's really ridiculous they way so many products are designed by graduate
engineers using custom/proprietary parts and sub assemblies when standard
parts would do just as well. Adds cost, complexity, assembly errors--- and
no real benefit to the end user.

We sold the old Brown and Sharpe screw machines a few years back, but
made quite a bit of money with them over the years, making (among other
things) custom screws. Nine million stock screws at the hardware store,
and engineers still insist on designing things that need a custom screw.

In article , Charlie Darwin wrote:
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be bad
even when it shows continuity?

Make that ...NO continuity....

Bulb shows lack of continuity and fails to glow, but filament appears
intact.

I have seen this before. Bulb is bad. Usually the bulb is bad by
having a nearly-miscropic-small break in the filament, though bulbs can
break elsewhere less visibly.

- Don Klipstein )

In article , Ulysses wrote:

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
...
The light in my GE microwave quit coming on so after pulling the case
apart to get at it (great design, guys!), the filament of this 25 watt
plug in bulb looks intact. However, a meter across the two male terminal
spades shows no continuity.

There's power at the connector supplying the light when the door is open
or the oven is running-- so that's not the problem. Could the bulb be
bad even when it shows continuity?

Make that ...NO continuity....

You are asking if a burned-out bulb is bad? This is why I don't believe in
evolution.

If you stick it in another (more portable) lamp and flick it with your
fingernail while it is on sometimes the filament will reconnect and weld
itself back in place. This, of course, works better with DC than with AC.
I have fixed many incandesant bulbs this way.

My dad taught me that trick - as in worked roughly or maybe a little
over half the time with his bedtable light that had a 12V output
transformer and used a # 93 lamp/"bulb".

In my experience, a resuscitated incandescent usually dies again fairly
soon and less repairably. Resuscitating a burnt out incandescent appears
to me to be a temporary repair, allowing someone to put a replacement lamp
/ "bulb" on the weekly shopping list and still have light that morning or
the next evening.

- Don Klipstein )

In article , Charlie Darwin wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
Parts guy was stumped by the intact filament/no continuity too (see Van's
post). But I decided to try a new bulb (for $11.24.


What is so special about the bulb that they can get that price? You can
probably find it cheaper on the internet but then the S&H would be $10.

Bulb is 25 watt, tubular, about 2 inches tall, integral plastic base with
two blades protruding beneath that slide into female connector.

The filament is circular going around the circumference of the glass and is
supported by 5-6 separate wire posts -- each topped with a loop to
support/lock the filament wire.

The parts people only had a 20 watt, about 1 1/2 inches tall. That's the one
I bought and put into the microwave.

No reason a 79 cent standard appliance bulb couldn't have been designed into
it originally-- but then again, these are the same guys that forced me to
take the entire sheet metal cover off. Good thing I had the right bit to
remove the 6 locking torx screws they used to fasten the case.


It's really ridiculous they way so many products are designed by graduate
engineers using custom/proprietary parts and sub assemblies when standard
parts would do just as well. Adds cost, complexity, assembly errors--- and
no real benefit to the end user.

I suspect microwave oven manufacturers want people to only disassemble
the cases if the disassemblers are technicians or engineers who are likely
to know the hazards of operating the darn thing with the case disassembled
or incompletely assembled.

One alternative would be making the bulb user-accessable from inside the
cooking cavity, but the bulb would probably fare poorly if both powered
and subject to the cooking microwave radiation - especially if the
consumer finds a gas-filled variant. (Gas-filled lightbulb in a microwave
can make nice puictures and videos for adventurous abuse of lightbulbs and
microwaves - but that is "great opportunity" for "Things To Go Badly
Wrong"!)
That can be fixed by the bulb being behinnd a removable/replaceable
screen - to the extent consumers put the removeable screen back into place
(Ha-ha-ha!!!). I suspect that the manufacturers' lawyers advised the
manufacturers that a majority of their customers that voted are
responsible for all levels and branches of our government, and that the
ones that did not vote on average are even more stupid dummkopfs!

- Don Klipstein )

In , Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Charlie Darwin" wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
Parts guy was stumped by the intact filament/no continuity too (see Van's
post). But I decided to try a new bulb (for $11.24.


What is so special about the bulb that they can get that price? You can
probably find it cheaper on the internet but then the S&H would be $10.

Bulb is 25 watt, tubular, about 2 inches tall, integral plastic base with
two blades protruding beneath that slide into female connector.

The filament is circular going around the circumference of the glass and is
supported by 5-6 separate wire posts -- each topped with a loop to
support/lock the filament wire.

The parts people only had a 20 watt, about 1 1/2 inches tall. That's the one
I bought and put into the microwave.

No reason a 79 cent standard appliance bulb couldn't have been designed into
it originally-- but then again, these are the same guys that forced me to
take the entire sheet metal cover off. Good thing I had the right bit to
remove the 6 locking torx screws they used to fasten the case.


It's really ridiculous they way so many products are designed by graduate
engineers using custom/proprietary parts and sub assemblies when standard
parts would do just as well. Adds cost, complexity, assembly errors--- and
no real benefit to the end user.

We sold the old Brown and Sharpe screw machines a few years back, but
made quite a bit of money with them over the years, making (among other
things) custom screws. Nine million stock screws at the hardware store,
and engineers still insist on designing things that need a custom screw.

I have some difficulty accepting that most engineers would do that on
their own. I suspect pressure from others as follows:

A) From MBA and/or MBA-wannabe types looking for revenue stream from
proprietary replacement parts

B) From legal departments pushing on pressure to impair user repairs in
order to reduce lawsuits from repairs that achieved getting the product
to work again but that were insufficient in maintaining/restoring
safety that the product orginally had

Distant third place, very distant third place I would suspect being some
engineer more likely of age young enough to be disqualified from being
President of USA by being too young, specifying proprietary screws to make
a widget slightly smaller and/or lighter in weight than otherwise
possible.
And such engineer does not get a job at NASA or a NASA contractor
despite NASA paying bigtime for small mass reduction because screws and
other specific compinents in NASA's rockets and spaceships have severe
requirement of passing test of time. Heck - see if you can get at Best
Buy or Micro Center a computer for less than $2,000 and more advanced than
any on the most recent Spece Shuttle flight!

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein wrote:
In , Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Charlie Darwin" wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
Parts guy was stumped by the intact filament/no continuity too (see Van's
post). But I decided to try a new bulb (for $11.24.

What is so special about the bulb that they can get that price? You can
probably find it cheaper on the internet but then the S&H would be $10.
Bulb is 25 watt, tubular, about 2 inches tall, integral plastic base with
two blades protruding beneath that slide into female connector.

The filament is circular going around the circumference of the glass and is
supported by 5-6 separate wire posts -- each topped with a loop to
support/lock the filament wire.

The parts people only had a 20 watt, about 1 1/2 inches tall. That's the one
I bought and put into the microwave.

No reason a 79 cent standard appliance bulb couldn't have been designed into
it originally-- but then again, these are the same guys that forced me to
take the entire sheet metal cover off. Good thing I had the right bit to
remove the 6 locking torx screws they used to fasten the case.


It's really ridiculous they way so many products are designed by graduate
engineers using custom/proprietary parts and sub assemblies when standard
parts would do just as well. Adds cost, complexity, assembly errors--- and
no real benefit to the end user.
We sold the old Brown and Sharpe screw machines a few years back, but
made quite a bit of money with them over the years, making (among other
things) custom screws. Nine million stock screws at the hardware store,
and engineers still insist on designing things that need a custom screw.

I have some difficulty accepting that most engineers would do that on
their own. I suspect pressure from others as follows:

A) From MBA and/or MBA-wannabe types looking for revenue stream from
proprietary replacement parts

B) From legal departments pushing on pressure to impair user repairs in
order to reduce lawsuits from repairs that achieved getting the product
to work again but that were insufficient in maintaining/restoring
safety that the product orginally had

Distant third place, very distant third place I would suspect being some
engineer more likely of age young enough to be disqualified from being
President of USA by being too young, specifying proprietary screws to make
a widget slightly smaller and/or lighter in weight than otherwise
possible.
And such engineer does not get a job at NASA or a NASA contractor
despite NASA paying bigtime for small mass reduction because screws and
other specific compinents in NASA's rockets and spaceships have severe
requirement of passing test of time. Heck - see if you can get at Best
Buy or Micro Center a computer for less than $2,000 and more advanced than
any on the most recent Spece Shuttle flight!

- Don Klipstein )
Hi,
Since you know so much. let us all see your credentials please?

In article ,
(Don Klipstein) wrote:

In , Smitty Two wrote:


We sold the old Brown and Sharpe screw machines a few years back, but
made quite a bit of money with them over the years, making (among other
things) custom screws. Nine million stock screws at the hardware store,
and engineers still insist on designing things that need a custom screw.

I have some difficulty accepting that most engineers would do that on
their own. I suspect pressure from others as follows:

A) From MBA and/or MBA-wannabe types looking for revenue stream from
proprietary replacement parts

B) From legal departments pushing on pressure to impair user repairs in
order to reduce lawsuits from repairs that achieved getting the product
to work again but that were insufficient in maintaining/restoring
safety that the product orginally had

Distant third place, very distant third place I would suspect being some
engineer more likely of age young enough to be disqualified from being
President of USA by being too young, specifying proprietary screws to make
a widget slightly smaller and/or lighter in weight than otherwise
possible.
And such engineer does not get a job at NASA or a NASA contractor
despite NASA paying bigtime for small mass reduction because screws and
other specific compinents in NASA's rockets and spaceships have severe
requirement of passing test of time. Heck - see if you can get at Best
Buy or Micro Center a computer for less than $2,000 and more advanced than
any on the most recent Spece Shuttle flight!

- Don Klipstein )

Actually Don I think the most common reason was oversight: Guy spends
three months designing a widget made up of fifty parts. Then realizes
that the parts aren't going to be held together by gravity or magnetism,
and starts putting in holes for screws.

Series of unfortunate epiphanies: Oops, no room for a counterbore for a
SHCS, part is too thin. Oops, can't use a pan head, head too thick and
diameter too big. Flat head. ****, countersink will bleed into that
other wall. Let's see, put it in from the back. Nope, no way to get a
tool in there to tighten it once these other parts are in place.

Rather than scrapping all his work up to that point, he *******izes a
fix: internal allen head like a set screw, straight unthreaded shank
from there .075 long, then a shoulder .042 thick and .120 diameter but
cut flat on one side, then a reduced diameter for .187 of length, and
finally some threads, but a callout that there be exactly 17.85 threads
before the flat on the shoulder, so it'll be in the correct orientation
for clearance for the next part that goes on. A couple of accommodating
extra slots in a few other parts along the way, and it's 3:30 in the
afternoon. Time to go home.

Now you got yourself a $35 screw, as long as you order 1000. If you only
use 17 of them because the product gets "re-engineered" after a month,
well, uh, it's a $2000 screw. But, hey, engineering is expensive, right?
And if you're not the designated "engineering liaison" (aka
pussy-whipped yes boy) you aren't even allowed in the guy's office to
tell him how stupid he is.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Charlie Darwin" wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
Parts guy was stumped by the intact filament/no continuity too (see Van's
post). But I decided to try a new bulb (for $11.24.

What is so special about the bulb that they can get that price? You can
probably find it cheaper on the internet but then the S&H would be $10.
Bulb is 25 watt, tubular, about 2 inches tall, integral plastic base with
two blades protruding beneath that slide into female connector.

The filament is circular going around the circumference of the glass and is
supported by 5-6 separate wire posts -- each topped with a loop to
support/lock the filament wire.

The parts people only had a 20 watt, about 1 1/2 inches tall. That's the one
I bought and put into the microwave.

No reason a 79 cent standard appliance bulb couldn't have been designed into
it originally-- but then again, these are the same guys that forced me to
take the entire sheet metal cover off. Good thing I had the right bit to
remove the 6 locking torx screws they used to fasten the case.


It's really ridiculous they way so many products are designed by graduate
engineers using custom/proprietary parts and sub assemblies when standard
parts would do just as well. Adds cost, complexity, assembly errors--- and
no real benefit to the end user.

We sold the old Brown and Sharpe screw machines a few years back, but
made quite a bit of money with them over the years, making (among other
things) custom screws. Nine million stock screws at the hardware store,
and engineers still insist on designing things that need a custom screw.

That's so they can screw you. *snicker*

TDD

Charlie Darwin wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Darwin" wrote in message
Parts guy was stumped by the intact filament/no continuity too (see Van's
post). But I decided to try a new bulb (for $11.24.

What is so special about the bulb that they can get that price? You can
probably find it cheaper on the internet but then the S&H would be $10.

Bulb is 25 watt, tubular, about 2 inches tall, integral plastic base with
two blades protruding beneath that slide into female connector.

The filament is circular going around the circumference of the glass and is
supported by 5-6 separate wire posts -- each topped with a loop to
support/lock the filament wire.

The parts people only had a 20 watt, about 1 1/2 inches tall. That's the one
I bought and put into the microwave.

No reason a 79 cent standard appliance bulb couldn't have been designed into
it originally-- but then again, these are the same guys that forced me to
take the entire sheet metal cover off. Good thing I had the right bit to
remove the 6 locking torx screws they used to fasten the case.


It's really ridiculous they way so many products are designed by graduate
engineers using custom/proprietary parts and sub assemblies when standard
parts would do just as well. Adds cost, complexity, assembly errors--- and
no real benefit to the end user.


Perhaps one day they will switch to LED lighting.
The only problem is the LED's may not get along
with microwave radiation.

TDD

In article , The Daring Dufas wrote:
Charlie Darwin wrote:

edit down story of hard-to-replace bulb to reduce line count

No reason a 79 cent standard appliance bulb couldn't have been designed
into it originally-- but then again, these are the same guys that
forced me to take the entire sheet metal cover off. Good thing I had
the right bit to remove the 6 locking torx screws they used to fasten
the case.

It's really ridiculous they way so many products are designed by
graduate engineers using custom/proprietary parts and sub assemblies
when standard parts would do just as well. Adds cost, complexity,
assembly errors--- and no real benefit to the end user.

Perhaps one day they will switch to LED lighting.
The only problem is the LED's may not get along
with microwave radiation.

It appears to me that microwave ovens are designed to impair consumer
repairs - for liability purposes.

It also appears to me that choice of lamp type is on basis of
reliability, and in part from microwave oven design engineers being more
conservative types more likely to give higher weighting to reliability and
safety.

It appears to me that such type engineers would choose incandescent over
LED because LED lighting has had a lot of overblowing and hype, and
because many white LEDs fail to last as long as their proponents claim.

I have seen it to be common practice for incandescent lamps in microwaves
to be run at reduced power to extend their life expectancy, so that
chanceas are good that the light bulb will not need to be replaced
during the life of the microwave. This appears to me consistent with
reliability and safety including reduction of repair attempts by
consumers.

I suspect that some microwave ovens will soon come out with LED interior
lighting, now that there are some white LEDs with actual good expectation
to last 30,000 or 50,000 operating hours with only minor to moderate
fading.

It should not take too much to protect the LED(s) from the microwaves.
I suspect the main hurdle is the extensive testing of something so new
and different by a safety certifcation laboratory institution such as UL.

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , The Daring Dufas wrote:
Charlie Darwin wrote:

edit down story of hard-to-replace bulb to reduce line count

No reason a 79 cent standard appliance bulb couldn't have been designed
into it originally-- but then again, these are the same guys that
forced me to take the entire sheet metal cover off. Good thing I had
the right bit to remove the 6 locking torx screws they used to fasten
the case.

It's really ridiculous they way so many products are designed by
graduate engineers using custom/proprietary parts and sub assemblies
when standard parts would do just as well. Adds cost, complexity,
assembly errors--- and no real benefit to the end user.
Perhaps one day they will switch to LED lighting.
The only problem is the LED's may not get along
with microwave radiation.

It appears to me that microwave ovens are designed to impair consumer
repairs - for liability purposes.

It also appears to me that choice of lamp type is on basis of
reliability, and in part from microwave oven design engineers being more
conservative types more likely to give higher weighting to reliability and
safety.

It appears to me that such type engineers would choose incandescent over
LED because LED lighting has had a lot of overblowing and hype, and
because many white LEDs fail to last as long as their proponents claim.

I have seen it to be common practice for incandescent lamps in microwaves
to be run at reduced power to extend their life expectancy, so that
chanceas are good that the light bulb will not need to be replaced
during the life of the microwave. This appears to me consistent with
reliability and safety including reduction of repair attempts by
consumers.

I suspect that some microwave ovens will soon come out with LED interior
lighting, now that there are some white LEDs with actual good expectation
to last 30,000 or 50,000 operating hours with only minor to moderate
fading.

It should not take too much to protect the LED(s) from the microwaves.
I suspect the main hurdle is the extensive testing of something so new
and different by a safety certifcation laboratory institution such as UL.

- Don Klipstein )

Many folks don't realize that very bright LED modules
require heat sinks to be reliable. I'm sure a perforated
screen like what's in the glass door can block microwaves
from the electronics of the LED lighting but heat may be
a factor too. Heck, old microwave ovens are a great source
for parts for us mad scientists.

TDD