I am renovating a bathroom and my otherwise excellent carpenter and I have a
disagreement. A bunch of sheetrock had to be replaced. Most will be
covered with Corian after it is mud up and sanded. After looking at his
sheetrock job, I see that many if not most screws pierced the paper. I
called this to his attention and he said he does it on purpose to get a
better finishing job. I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. I was once
told by a sheetrock guy that loose paper was a big cause of nail pops. In
any case, most of the sheetrock will be covered with Corian attached by
silicone glue so I can probably let this go but I wanted to get other
opinions. This isn't really a money argument. He did something very smart
on another part of the job saving me tons of money so if I decided to make
him re-do it I will pay him for the time and sheetrock. Just want it done
right. Thanks.

On Feb 8, 8:05*pm, "Art" wrote:
I am renovating a bathroom and my otherwise excellent carpenter and I have a
disagreement. *A bunch of sheetrock had to be replaced. *Most will be
covered with Corian after it is mud up and sanded. *After looking at his
sheetrock job, I see that many if not most screws pierced the paper. *I
called this to his attention and he said he does it on purpose to get a
better finishing job. *I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. *I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. *I was once
told by a sheetrock guy that loose paper was a big cause of nail pops. *In
any case, most of the sheetrock will be covered with Corian attached by
silicone glue so I can probably let this go but I wanted to get other
opinions. *This isn't really a money argument. *He did something very smart
on another part of the job saving me tons of money so if I decided to make
him re-do it I will pay him for the time and sheetrock. *Just want it done
right. *Thanks.

All the sheetrock jobs I've done has the nail or screw slightly
embedded into the sheetrock for a better mud job.

Art wrote:
I am renovating a bathroom and my otherwise excellent carpenter and I have a
disagreement. A bunch of sheetrock had to be replaced. Most will be
covered with Corian after it is mud up and sanded. After looking at his
sheetrock job, I see that many if not most screws pierced the paper. I
called this to his attention and he said he does it on purpose to get a
better finishing job. I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. I was once
told by a sheetrock guy that loose paper was a big cause of nail pops. In
any case, most of the sheetrock will be covered with Corian attached by
silicone glue so I can probably let this go but I wanted to get other
opinions. This isn't really a money argument. He did something very smart
on another part of the job saving me tons of money so if I decided to make
him re-do it I will pay him for the time and sheetrock. Just want it done
right. Thanks.


The screw is supposed to dimple the paper, but not go through it. It
takes a well calibrated clutch on the screw shooter, and enough practice
to know when to let off the trigger, and how hard to lean. (I'm not very
good at it.) If they oversink one, they are supposed to back it out or
drive it deeper, and put another one an inch away. Yes, that ragged
paper edge has a nasty habit of coming up through the mud. On a wall
that vibrates a lot, the screw in the white layer won't hold as well as
the one that has paper under it. One or two isn't a big deal, but if he
did all of them that way, somebody taught him wrong. Why are you
bothering to mud under the Corian? Hope you at least used greenboard.
These days, I'd be tempted to use the non-paper-skinned rock, in a wet
room, to avoid mold.

--
aem sends..

On 2/8/2009 5:05 PM Art spake thus:

I am renovating a bathroom and my otherwise excellent carpenter and I have a
disagreement. A bunch of sheetrock had to be replaced. Most will be
covered with Corian after it is mud up and sanded. After looking at his
sheetrock job, I see that many if not most screws pierced the paper. I
called this to his attention and he said he does it on purpose to get a
better finishing job. I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. I was once
told by a sheetrock guy that loose paper was a big cause of nail pops.

From the horse's mouth:

Space screws maximum of 12" apart on ceilings, 16" on walls and at
least 3/8" from ends and edges of panels. Sink screws to just below
the panel surface, leaving the paper intact.

(javascriptdf_popUp('/USG_Marketing_Content/usg.com/web_files/Documents/Installation_and_Appl_Guides/Shtrkgypsum_panel_and_joint_treatment-installation_guide.pdf','Sheetrock
Gypsum Panel and Joint Treatment Installation Guide J371') from the USG
website.)


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
Art wrote:
I am renovating a bathroom and my otherwise excellent carpenter and I
have a disagreement. A bunch of sheetrock had to be replaced. Most will
be covered with Corian after it is mud up and sanded. After looking at
his sheetrock job, I see that many if not most screws pierced the paper.
I called this to his attention and he said he does it on purpose to get a
better finishing job. I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. I was
once told by a sheetrock guy that loose paper was a big cause of nail
pops. In any case, most of the sheetrock will be covered with Corian
attached by silicone glue so I can probably let this go but I wanted to
get other opinions. This isn't really a money argument. He did
something very smart on another part of the job saving me tons of money
so if I decided to make him re-do it I will pay him for the time and
sheetrock. Just want it done right. Thanks.
The screw is supposed to dimple the paper, but not go through it. It takes
a well calibrated clutch on the screw shooter, and enough practice to know
when to let off the trigger, and how hard to lean. (I'm not very good at
it.) If they oversink one, they are supposed to back it out or drive it
deeper, and put another one an inch away. Yes, that ragged paper edge has
a nasty habit of coming up through the mud. On a wall that vibrates a lot,
the screw in the white layer won't hold as well as the one that has paper
under it. One or two isn't a big deal, but if he did all of them that way,
somebody taught him wrong. Why are you bothering to mud under the Corian?
Hope you at least used greenboard. These days, I'd be tempted to use the
non-paper-skinned rock, in a wet room, to avoid mold.

--
aem sends..

What are non-paper-skinned rock? Care to share a link?

Thanks,

MC

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
Art wrote:
I am renovating a bathroom and my otherwise excellent carpenter and I
have a disagreement. A bunch of sheetrock had to be replaced. Most will
be covered with Corian after it is mud up and sanded. After looking at
his sheetrock job, I see that many if not most screws pierced the paper.
I called this to his attention and he said he does it on purpose to get a
better finishing job. I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. I was
once told by a sheetrock guy that loose paper was a big cause of nail
pops. In any case, most of the sheetrock will be covered with Corian
attached by silicone glue so I can probably let this go but I wanted to
get other opinions. This isn't really a money argument. He did
something very smart on another part of the job saving me tons of money
so if I decided to make him re-do it I will pay him for the time and
sheetrock. Just want it done right. Thanks.
The screw is supposed to dimple the paper, but not go through it. It takes
a well calibrated clutch on the screw shooter, and enough practice to know
when to let off the trigger, and how hard to lean. (I'm not very good at
it.) If they oversink one, they are supposed to back it out or drive it
deeper, and put another one an inch away. Yes, that ragged paper edge has
a nasty habit of coming up through the mud. On a wall that vibrates a lot,
the screw in the white layer won't hold as well as the one that has paper
under it. One or two isn't a big deal, but if he did all of them that way,
somebody taught him wrong. Why are you bothering to mud under the Corian?
Hope you at least used greenboard. These days, I'd be tempted to use the
non-paper-skinned rock, in a wet room, to avoid mold.

--
aem sends..


We actually used a new purple water resistant board that is supposed to be
mold resistent thru out and not just the paper. The claims for this board
and the claims for the new paper free board appeared to be identical. As
for mudding behind the corrian, Corrian installer said most contractors mud
it... probably to adjust level and squareness.

"Art" wrote in message
m...
better finishing job. I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. I was
once

Didn't he use -screws-? How are screws going to pop out?

On 2/8/2009 5:57 PM Bob M. spake thus:

"Art" wrote in message
m...

better finishing job. I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. I was
once

Didn't he use -screws-? How are screws going to pop out?

Hate to be the one to tell you this, but you ought to re-read the
original post.

And yes, screws can pop out as well. In fact, may be more likely with
screws than with nails.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

"MiamiCuse" wrote:

What are non-paper-skinned rock? Care to share a link?

Also known as hardieboard or cement board.

http://www.jameshardie.com/builder/p...interior.shtml

There are other brands as well.

I think he is talking about a new non paper sheetrock like material that has
no cellulose. It is a different product than cement board.


"Robert Neville" wrote in message
...
"MiamiCuse" wrote:

What are non-paper-skinned rock? Care to share a link?

Also known as hardieboard or cement board.

http://www.jameshardie.com/builder/p...interior.shtml

There are other brands as well.

If you pierce the paper, it is my understanding that it can cause 2
problems. The loose paper above the screw can let the mud above it pop out.
Nail pops are not necessarily a nail popping out. Loose paper can look the
same according to a sheetrock guy I used once in my previous home. Also if
a lot of the screws pierce the paper the sheetrock will hang loosely on the
stud and if someone leans against it the screwheads can push out the mud.


"Bob M." wrote in message
. ..
"Art" wrote in message
m...
better finishing job. I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. I was
once

Didn't he use -screws-? How are screws going to pop out?

On Feb 8, 5:36*pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
"aemeijers" wrote in message

...



Art wrote:
I am renovating a bathroom and my otherwise excellent carpenter and I
have a disagreement. *A bunch of sheetrock had to be replaced. *Most will
be covered with Corian after it is mud up and sanded. *After looking at
his sheetrock job, I see that many if not most screws pierced the paper.

MiamiCuse wrote:
"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
Art wrote:
I am renovating a bathroom and my otherwise excellent carpenter and I
have a disagreement. A bunch of sheetrock had to be replaced. Most will
be covered with Corian after it is mud up and sanded. After looking at
his sheetrock job, I see that many if not most screws pierced the paper.
I called this to his attention and he said he does it on purpose to get a
better finishing job. I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. I was
once told by a sheetrock guy that loose paper was a big cause of nail
pops. In any case, most of the sheetrock will be covered with Corian
attached by silicone glue so I can probably let this go but I wanted to
get other opinions. This isn't really a money argument. He did
something very smart on another part of the job saving me tons of money
so if I decided to make him re-do it I will pay him for the time and
sheetrock. Just want it done right. Thanks.
The screw is supposed to dimple the paper, but not go through it. It takes
a well calibrated clutch on the screw shooter, and enough practice to know
when to let off the trigger, and how hard to lean. (I'm not very good at
it.) If they oversink one, they are supposed to back it out or drive it
deeper, and put another one an inch away. Yes, that ragged paper edge has
a nasty habit of coming up through the mud. On a wall that vibrates a lot,
the screw in the white layer won't hold as well as the one that has paper
under it. One or two isn't a big deal, but if he did all of them that way,
somebody taught him wrong. Why are you bothering to mud under the Corian?
Hope you at least used greenboard. These days, I'd be tempted to use the
non-paper-skinned rock, in a wet room, to avoid mold.

--
aem sends..

What are non-paper-skinned rock? Care to share a link?

Thanks,

MC


Check your local Borg. The stuff around here is yellow. Some sort of
tyvek or fiberglass or something. On the pricey side, so probably only
indicated for damp areas. Don't know the proper name to tell you to
Google it. (After my last patching fiasco, I stay out of drywall aisle-
it just depresses me. I have lots of skills, but that ain't one of them.)

--
aem sends...

On Feb 8, 5:05*pm, "Art" wrote:
I am renovating a bathroom and my otherwise excellent carpenter and I have a
disagreement. *A bunch of sheetrock had to be replaced. *Most will be
covered with Corian after it is mud up and sanded. *After looking at his
sheetrock job, I see that many if not most screws pierced the paper. *I
called this to his attention and he said he does it on purpose to get a
better finishing job. *I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. *I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. *I was once
told by a sheetrock guy that loose paper was a big cause of nail pops. *In
any case, most of the sheetrock will be covered with Corian attached by
silicone glue so I can probably let this go but I wanted to get other
opinions. *This isn't really a money argument. *He did something very smart
on another part of the job saving me tons of money so if I decided to make
him re-do it I will pay him for the time and sheetrock. *Just want it done
right. *Thanks.

Don't ever use that guy again for anything!

Harry K

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
On 2/8/2009 5:05 PM Art spake thus:

I am renovating a bathroom and my otherwise excellent carpenter and I
have a disagreement. A bunch of sheetrock had to be replaced. Most will
be covered with Corian after it is mud up and sanded. After looking at
his sheetrock job, I see that many if not most screws pierced the paper.
I called this to his attention and he said he does it on purpose to get a
better finishing job. I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. I was
once told by a sheetrock guy that loose paper was a big cause of nail
pops.

From the horse's mouth:

Space screws maximum of 12" apart on ceilings, 16" on walls and at
least 3/8" from ends and edges of panels. Sink screws to just below
the panel surface, leaving the paper intact.


Ditto...To "get it RIGHT" you need to use a drywall screw gun set to the
PROPER depth and drive the screws STRAIGHT in and NOT cockeyed...DO NOT use
a cordless driver that MOST carpenters and homeowners TRY to use...It ALWAYS
creates problems with screw pops due to over driving screws....Dimple any
missed screw holes in by GENTLY tapping them with the handle of your drywall
knife..That is what the steel end cap at the bottom of the handle is
for........Good luck....

In article , wrote:

What I absolutely can't do is get the texture coat right.

Ditto. I too am a very practical guy and although it may
take me a while I can complete most jobs to a fairly good
standard.

But... matching a knockdown texture just produces a
horrible mess every time. It's depressing.

And I'm sitting here with my tail between my legs
waiting for a pro to arrive in the next few minutes
to "rescue" my last attempt at same which SWMBO has
(quite correctly) declared unacceptable.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Malcolm Hoar" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:

What I absolutely can't do is get the texture coat right.

Ditto. I too am a very practical guy and although it may
take me a while I can complete most jobs to a fairly good
standard.

But... matching a knockdown texture just produces a
horrible mess every time. It's depressing.

And I'm sitting here with my tail between my legs
waiting for a pro to arrive in the next few minutes
to "rescue" my last attempt at same which SWMBO has
(quite correctly) declared unacceptable.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Don't feel bad Malcom...Matching somebody elses texture or swirl patterns
is a challange even for pros...I TRY to steer customers away from such stuff
as it is ALWAYS a pain to try to patch and match down the road..LOL..Good
luck....

"Art" wrote in message
m...
I am renovating a bathroom and my otherwise excellent carpenter and I have
a disagreement. A bunch of sheetrock had to be replaced. Most will be
covered with Corian after it is mud up and sanded. After looking at his
sheetrock job, I see that many if not most screws pierced the paper. I
called this to his attention and he said he does it on purpose to get a
better finishing job. I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. I was
once told by a sheetrock guy that loose paper was a big cause of nail
pops. In any case, most of the sheetrock will be covered with Corian
attached by silicone glue so I can probably let this go but I wanted to
get other opinions. This isn't really a money argument. He did something
very smart on another part of the job saving me tons of money so if I
decided to make him re-do it I will pay him for the time and sheetrock.
Just want it done right. Thanks.

It won't make a bit a difference, since he glued or PL'd the studs b/4
hanging. Uhhhhhh, that's providing he glued or PL'd the studs.

I wouldn't think about putting a covering such as Corian over _unglued_
rock, unless you like asking for trouble.

On 2/9/2009 5:21 AM spake thus:

Well it will pierce the paper, it has too. It should also
produce a small indent around the screw or nail head. Without the
indent the screw or nail would poke up above the surface of the wall.
Not good. With the indent it gets filled with dry wall compound.

Only the shank of the screw should pierce the paper, not the entire head.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

On Feb 8, 7:05*pm, "Art" wrote:
I am renovating a bathroom and my otherwise excellent carpenter and I have a
disagreement. *A bunch of sheetrock had to be replaced. *Most will be
covered with Corian after it is mud up and sanded. *After looking at his
sheetrock job, I see that many if not most screws pierced the paper. *I
called this to his attention and he said he does it on purpose to get a
better finishing job. *I told him that the paper is not supposed to be
pierced but he strongly disagreed. *I believe that the paper is needed to
hold the sheetrock strongly to the studs and prevent nail pops. *I was once
told by a sheetrock guy that loose paper was a big cause of nail pops. *In
any case, most of the sheetrock will be covered with Corian attached by
silicone glue so I can probably let this go but I wanted to get other
opinions. *This isn't really a money argument. *He did something very smart
on another part of the job saving me tons of money so if I decided to make
him re-do it I will pay him for the time and sheetrock. *Just want it done
right. *Thanks.

Just buy this guy some 50 cent "dimpling bits" at home depot and shoot
some more screws. The dimpling bits work great, they release the
screw just as it dimples the paper without tearing it. Or just shoot
more screws yourself while he is away. The paper should not be torn
to get the most strength. Also if it's a wet area you should be using
stainless steel screws anyway.

Robert Neville wrote:
"MiamiCuse" wrote:

What are non-paper-skinned rock? Care to share a link?

Also known as hardieboard or cement board.

http://www.jameshardie.com/builder/p...interior.shtml

There are other brands as well.
No, this is something different- still a gypsum core, but a different
skin, so mold has nowhere to grow.

It has a fiberglass skin instead of paper. It costs a little more, but
doesn't give mildew anything to eat.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX USA

On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:00:25 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 2/9/2009 5:21 AM spake thus:

Well it will pierce the paper, it has too. It should also
produce a small indent around the screw or nail head. Without the
indent the screw or nail would poke up above the surface of the wall.
Not good. With the indent it gets filled with dry wall compound.

Only the shank of the screw should pierce the paper, not the entire head.

Exactly