The question from the person in Peru about wiring for 230 volts raises a
question: in places that use 230/240 volts for household current (i.e.,
most of the world), how is that power brought into the house? Here, we
have 2 "legs" of 120 volts each (two hots and a neutral) of opposite
phases, so that you can either tap 120 from either leg or 240 between them.

Is 230/240 brought in the same way so that you can get 480 volts
(yikes!)? Or is it just one single circuit?


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

David Nebenzahl wrote:

The question from the person in Peru about wiring for 230 volts raises a
question: in places that use 230/240 volts for household current (i.e.,
most of the world), how is that power brought into the house?

Here, we
have 2 "legs" of 120 volts each (two hots and a neutral) of opposite
phases, so that you can either tap 120 from either leg or 240 between them.

They aren't "opposite phases", they are opposite polarity as they are
the center tapped (center is neutral) output of a single phase
distribution transformer.


Is 230/240 brought in the same way so that you can get 480 volts
(yikes!)? Or is it just one single circuit?

I'm pretty sure in most locations for residences it isn't brought in in
such a way as to provide a 480V option. Once you get into commercial
type locations with or without three phase it could be most anything.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

The sad reality is that despite this type of propaganda, Vista works
just fine. In the old days people bashed Windows for legitimate
failings, but in recent years since those failing no longer exist, they
have had to resort to baseless lies.

On 2/2/2009 6:40 PM Pete C. spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

The question from the person in Peru about wiring for 230 volts raises a
question: in places that use 230/240 volts for household current (i.e.,
most of the world), how is that power brought into the house?

Here, we have 2 "legs" of 120 volts each (two hots and a neutral)
of opposite phases, so that you can either tap 120 from either leg
or 240 between them.

They aren't "opposite phases", they are opposite polarity as they are
the center tapped (center is neutral) output of a single phase
distribution transformer.

Yes, same phase, opposite polarity. My bad.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:03:37 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

The question from the person in Peru about wiring for 230 volts raises a
question: in places that use 230/240 volts for household current (i.e.,
most of the world), how is that power brought into the house? Here, we
have 2 "legs" of 120 volts each (two hots and a neutral) of opposite
phases, so that you can either tap 120 from either leg or 240 between them.

Is 230/240 brought in the same way so that you can get 480 volts
(yikes!)? Or is it just one single circuit?

In MOST of the 220 volt world it is 220 to ground and 440 is not
available in residential or institutional applications.
Britain MAY be an exception (and is technically 240, where most of the
rest of the high voltage world is technically 230)

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

David Nebenzahl wrote:

The question from the person in Peru about wiring for 230 volts raises a
question: in places that use 230/240 volts for household current (i.e.,
most of the world), how is that power brought into the house?

Here, we
have 2 "legs" of 120 volts each (two hots and a neutral) of opposite
phases, so that you can either tap 120 from either leg or 240 between
them.

They aren't "opposite phases", they are opposite polarity as they are
the center tapped (center is neutral) output of a single phase
distribution transformer.


Is 230/240 brought in the same way so that you can get 480 volts
(yikes!)? Or is it just one single circuit?

I'm pretty sure in most locations for residences it isn't brought in in
such a way as to provide a 480V option. Once you get into commercial
type locations with or without three phase it could be most anything.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

The sad reality is that despite this type of propaganda, Vista works
just fine. In the old days people bashed Windows for legitimate
failings, but in recent years since those failing no longer exist, they
have had to resort to baseless lies.

Very true..I've had an HP with Vista for over a year and really like it..I
think the bad rap came from people trying to up grade old machines that
barely met the requirements for Vista..It is a resourse hog which isn't a
problem with the new machines with giant hard drives and mega ram but a big
problem for antiques....Sometimes size does matter...LOL....

Very true..I've had an HP with Vista for over a year and really like it..I
think the bad rap came from people trying to up grade old machines that
barely met the requirements for Vista..It is a resource hog which isn't a
problem with the new machines with giant hard drives and mega ram but a big
problem for antiques....Sometimes size does matter...LOL....

MS products have always been resource hogs......for years when calling
MS tech support, the standard reply was "you need more RAM". I've
been hearing this from them for nearly 20 years.

Now I don't hear it anymore ......

I've left the "dark side" and run a MacBook Pro with best of both
worlds;
Mac OS and a virtual PC simultaneously using VM Ware's MAC / PC
virtual machine engine called Fusion.

Now when IE crashes but doesn't crash my machine.
XP runs better on my Mac than it ever did on a PC.

MS operating systems have gotten better & better (Win 3.0, WIn 95,
Win 98, Win XP-Pro)
I was pretty happy with XP-Pro but I no longer have to wait for them
to "get good" instead of just "better".

I have not been lucky enough to experience Vista so I cannot comment
on its merits or flaws.... MS OS's are a thing of the past for me.


cheers
Bob

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 2/2/2009 6:40 PM Pete C. spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

The question from the person in Peru about wiring for 230 volts raises a
question: in places that use 230/240 volts for household current (i.e.,
most of the world), how is that power brought into the house?

Here, we have 2 "legs" of 120 volts each (two hots and a neutral)
of opposite phases, so that you can either tap 120 from either leg
or 240 between them.

They aren't "opposite phases", they are opposite polarity as they are
the center tapped (center is neutral) output of a single phase
distribution transformer.

Yes, same phase, opposite polarity. My bad.


I think you were right. The transformer on the power pole produces two
phases from one phase. Because the difference is pi radians, the
polarities will be opposite when polarities exist.

E Z Peaces wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 2/2/2009 6:40 PM Pete C. spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

The question from the person in Peru about wiring for 230 volts raises a
question: in places that use 230/240 volts for household current (i.e.,
most of the world), how is that power brought into the house?

Here, we have 2 "legs" of 120 volts each (two hots and a neutral)
of opposite phases, so that you can either tap 120 from either leg
or 240 between them.

They aren't "opposite phases", they are opposite polarity as they are
the center tapped (center is neutral) output of a single phase
distribution transformer.

Yes, same phase, opposite polarity. My bad.


I think you were right. The transformer on the power pole produces two
phases from one phase. Because the difference is pi radians, the
polarities will be opposite when polarities exist.

No, it produces a one phase 240V output. The center tap on that output
confuses people, but the output is indeed single phase.

On 2/3/2009 2:27 PM Pete C. spake thus:

E Z Peaces wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 2/2/2009 6:40 PM Pete C. spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

The question from the person in Peru about wiring for 230 volts raises a
question: in places that use 230/240 volts for household current (i.e.,
most of the world), how is that power brought into the house?

Here, we have 2 "legs" of 120 volts each (two hots and a neutral)
of opposite phases, so that you can either tap 120 from either leg
or 240 between them.

They aren't "opposite phases", they are opposite polarity as they are
the center tapped (center is neutral) output of a single phase
distribution transformer.

Yes, same phase, opposite polarity. My bad.


I think you were right. The transformer on the power pole produces two
phases from one phase. Because the difference is pi radians, the
polarities will be opposite when polarities exist.

No, it produces a one phase 240V output. The center tap on that output
confuses people, but the output is indeed single phase.

Well, I suppose one could say that the two legs of 120 volts are 180°
out of phase w/respect to each other (one goes positive while the other
goes negative), right? Even though it is only single-phase power,
strictly speaking.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:27:35 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


E Z Peaces wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 2/2/2009 6:40 PM Pete C. spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

The question from the person in Peru about wiring for 230 volts raises a
question: in places that use 230/240 volts for household current (i.e.,
most of the world), how is that power brought into the house?

Here, we have 2 "legs" of 120 volts each (two hots and a neutral)
of opposite phases, so that you can either tap 120 from either leg
or 240 between them.

They aren't "opposite phases", they are opposite polarity as they are
the center tapped (center is neutral) output of a single phase
distribution transformer.

Yes, same phase, opposite polarity. My bad.


I think you were right. The transformer on the power pole produces two
phases from one phase. Because the difference is pi radians, the
polarities will be opposite when polarities exist.

No, it produces a one phase 240V output. The center tap on that output
confuses people, but the output is indeed single phase.

It's either 120V (2 phases) or 240V (1 phase). The difference is in
the point of reference. That's normally the ground.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

On 2/3/2009 5:25 PM Mark Lloyd spake thus:

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:27:35 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

E Z Peaces wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 2/2/2009 6:40 PM Pete C. spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

The question from the person in Peru about wiring for 230 volts raises a
question: in places that use 230/240 volts for household current (i.e.,
most of the world), how is that power brought into the house?

Here, we have 2 "legs" of 120 volts each (two hots and a neutral)
of opposite phases, so that you can either tap 120 from either leg
or 240 between them.

They aren't "opposite phases", they are opposite polarity as they are
the center tapped (center is neutral) output of a single phase
distribution transformer.

Yes, same phase, opposite polarity. My bad.

I think you were right. The transformer on the power pole produces two
phases from one phase. Because the difference is pi radians, the
polarities will be opposite when polarities exist.

No, it produces a one phase 240V output. The center tap on that output
confuses people, but the output is indeed single phase.

It's either 120V (2 phases) or 240V (1 phase). The difference is in
the point of reference. That's normally the ground.

Right.

After this point, any more discussion is just arguing semantics.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 17:43:46 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 2/3/2009 5:25 PM Mark Lloyd spake thus:

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:27:35 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

E Z Peaces wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 2/2/2009 6:40 PM Pete C. spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

The question from the person in Peru about wiring for 230 volts raises a
question: in places that use 230/240 volts for household current (i.e.,
most of the world), how is that power brought into the house?

Here, we have 2 "legs" of 120 volts each (two hots and a neutral)
of opposite phases, so that you can either tap 120 from either leg
or 240 between them.

They aren't "opposite phases", they are opposite polarity as they are
the center tapped (center is neutral) output of a single phase
distribution transformer.

Yes, same phase, opposite polarity. My bad.

I think you were right. The transformer on the power pole produces two
phases from one phase. Because the difference is pi radians, the
polarities will be opposite when polarities exist.

No, it produces a one phase 240V output. The center tap on that output
confuses people, but the output is indeed single phase.

It's either 120V (2 phases) or 240V (1 phase). The difference is in
the point of reference. That's normally the ground.

Right.

After this point, any more discussion is just arguing semantics.

Mostly, although the center tap is still the most groundlike point.
That's normally the point of reference for measuring voltage.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

On 2/4/2009 5:51 AM Mark Lloyd spake thus:

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 17:43:46 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 2/3/2009 5:25 PM Mark Lloyd spake thus:

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:27:35 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

E Z Peaces wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 2/2/2009 6:40 PM Pete C. spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

The question from the person in Peru about wiring for 230 volts raises a
question: in places that use 230/240 volts for household current (i.e.,
most of the world), how is that power brought into the house?

Here, we have 2 "legs" of 120 volts each (two hots and a neutral)
of opposite phases, so that you can either tap 120 from either leg
or 240 between them.

They aren't "opposite phases", they are opposite polarity as they are
the center tapped (center is neutral) output of a single phase
distribution transformer.

Yes, same phase, opposite polarity. My bad.

I think you were right. The transformer on the power pole produces two
phases from one phase. Because the difference is pi radians, the
polarities will be opposite when polarities exist.

No, it produces a one phase 240V output. The center tap on that output
confuses people, but the output is indeed single phase.

It's either 120V (2 phases) or 240V (1 phase). The difference is in
the point of reference. That's normally the ground.

Right.

After this point, any more discussion is just arguing semantics.

Mostly, although the center tap is still the most groundlike point.
That's normally the point of reference for measuring voltage.

Was anybody disputing that?

The center tap actually *is* the ground point in domestic 3-wire
(120-0-120) systems, connected in the customer's panel as both neutral
and ground.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 10:24:30 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

[snip]


The center tap actually *is* the ground point in domestic 3-wire
(120-0-120) systems, connected in the customer's panel as both neutral
and ground.

Yes, it is. I was just wondering why so many people were denying that.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."