Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:25:58 -0800 (PST), terry
wrote:

Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

I guess it would be better to have them on during the day?

Just why do you suppose we have street lights?

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:25:58 -0800 (PST), terry
wrote:

Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

I guess it would be better to have them on during the day?

Just why do you suppose we have street lights?

But we have too many lights were no one is using them. Look at the empty
parking lots and building that are well lit at midnight. Every time I'm in
a plane landing at night, I just marvel at the waste of electricity. Motion
detectors would make sense, At least reduced lighting in many places.

On Jan 7, 1:25*am, terry wrote:
Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.

Well we have to keep our No1 position in everything, using the most
energy also. We need V8s, incandesant bulbs, non condensing heating
and big houses, we need big lights.

In article
,
terry wrote:

Often wondered why street lights on all night.

The value of overnight street lighting was established CENTURIES ago.
It provides improved public safety, particularly crime suppression.

Wasted energy etc.

One man's "waste" is another man's "value".

unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated
by coal or other fossil fuel.

True "pollution" by such industries has all but been eliminated,
compared to a mere, few decades ago. Most so-called environmentally
conscious or proactive folks are not old enough to remember how things
were. I remember black clouds of coal smoke. "Chimney scrubbers" were
developed and deployed, to name just ONE of the many improvements that
have made low sulphur coal combustion almost clean.

....and carbon dioxide, a gas produced by ALL living creatures, is NOT a
pollutant despite baseless, contrary claims.

Could save some small municipalities some cost?

On the surface or "up front", eliminating overnight, public lighting
might appear to save some money. In reality, the CO$T to a community
from such "savings" would quickly become apparent in the form of
diminished public safety (increased accidents, etc) and increased crime.

If you think there are too many tire slashings and window smashings NOW,
just turn off the street lights for a while and see how much such crime
increases.

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

Great. Let them test such folly - then get back to the rest of us.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

That's almost a cliche of the Environmentalist Wacko movement: Spend
millions of dollars to save a few dollars. Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.

The irony of such technology is that it ignores the very basis of what
has driven mankind since the wheel: Cost vs value.

You can bet that at least ONE householder in each area would turn the
lights back on - EACH NIGHT - just for the security they offer.

It is simply appalling to me that so many (too many) folks believe that
such a system would be a good thing. They are incapable of seeing
beyond the simple function of turning off a street light.

I am honestly concerned for the future should such folly take an even
greater hold of our society. There are so many BETTER things to concern
us and on which we should spend our money.
--

JR

On Jan 7, 7:56�am, Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article
,

�terry wrote:
Often wondered why street lights on all night.

The value of overnight street lighting was established CENTURIES ago. �
It provides improved public safety, particularly crime suppression.

Wasted energy etc.

One man's "waste" is another man's "value".

unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated
by coal or other fossil fuel.

True "pollution" by such industries has all but been eliminated,
compared to a mere, few decades ago. �Most so-called environmentally
conscious or proactive folks are not old enough to remember how things
were. �I remember black clouds of coal smoke. �"Chimney scrubbers" were
developed and deployed, to name just ONE of the many improvements that
have made low sulphur coal combustion almost clean.

...and carbon dioxide, a gas produced by ALL living creatures, is NOT a
pollutant despite baseless, contrary claims.

Could save some small municipalities some cost?

On the surface or "up front", eliminating overnight, public lighting
might appear to save some money. �In reality, the CO$T to a community
from such "savings" would quickly become apparent in the form of
diminished public safety (increased accidents, etc) and increased crime.

If you think there are too many tire slashings and window smashings NOW,
just turn off the street lights for a while and see how much such crime
increases.

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

Great. �Let them test such folly - then get back to the rest of us.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

That's almost a cliche of the Environmentalist Wacko movement: �Spend
millions of dollars to save a few dollars. �Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.

The irony of such technology is that it ignores the very basis of what
has driven mankind since the wheel: �Cost vs value.

You can bet that at least ONE householder in each area would turn the
lights back on - EACH NIGHT - just for the security they offer.

It is simply appalling to me that so many (too many) folks believe that
such a system would be a good thing. �They are incapable of seeing
beyond the simple function of turning off a street light.

I am honestly concerned for the future should such folly take an even
greater hold of our society. �There are so many BETTER things to concern
us and on which we should spend our money.
--
� � � � � �
JR

lights deter drug sales, vandalism, grafitti artists and help
percieved safety.

take a empty car parking lot, your car may not have started after
work, so you got a ride with a friend and left it till morning.

would you want the lights off, returning in the morning to a empty
lot, car stolen? or prefer you car on blocks totally stripped?

newer parking lot and security lights are far more efficent and aim
the light down to minimize shy waste

In article ,
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

Just why do you suppose we have street lights?

But we have too many lights were no one is using them.

Therein lies one of my concerns, Ed: I fear for the day when
like-minded folks gain control of such things. The decision by the
Ministry of Overnight Lighting to force private consumers into darkness
(among many, other things) would be a terrible thing.

Look at the empty parking lots and building that
are well lit at midnight.

Have you considered WHY they are empty? One reason they are empty is
BECAUSE they are illuminated.

Every time I'm in a plane landing at night,
I just marvel at the waste of electricity.

That is a ridiculous statement, but I'll leave the ridicule to other,
ahem enlightened persons. If you wish to save energy or, amazingly,
the planet, take the train or stay home.

The next time you are in a plane landing at night, advise the Captain
that you'd like the airport to turn off their lights to save energy.
Better yet, make the flight on ONE engine. Sheesh!

Motion detectors would make sense, At least reduced lighting in many places.

A long time ago, SOME of us learned that constantly turning-on and
turning-off a lamp was usually more expensive than leaving it on. This
hasn't changed.

Completely disregarding actual CO$T, virtually anything is possible and
considered by too many to be worthwhile.

As kids, playing outdoors at dusk, one of us was the "winner" if we were
the first to call out "street light" when it came on. The advantages of
turning-off public lighting during daytime hours are well known. The
advantages of turning-ON such lighting after dark are likewise well
known, at least by those with half a brain.

Switching on-and-off overnight lighting with each passing vehicle or at
the whim of the public with a mere phone call is folly.

Parking lot operators are driven by cost, just like any other business.
When it is clear there is money to be SAVED (overall) by keeping their
property in the dark overnight, it will happen on its own. I rue the
day when it is mandated by government.
--

JR

On Jan 7, 9:56*am, Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article
,

*terry wrote:
Often wondered why street lights on all night.

The value of overnight street lighting was established CENTURIES ago. *
It provides improved public safety, particularly crime suppression.

Wasted energy etc.

One man's "waste" is another man's "value".

unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated
by coal or other fossil fuel.

True "pollution" by such industries has all but been eliminated,
compared to a mere, few decades ago. *Most so-called environmentally
conscious or proactive folks are not old enough to remember how things
were. *I remember black clouds of coal smoke. *"Chimney scrubbers" were
developed and deployed, to name just ONE of the many improvements that
have made low sulphur coal combustion almost clean.

...and carbon dioxide, a gas produced by ALL living creatures, is NOT a
pollutant despite baseless, contrary claims.

Could save some small municipalities some cost?

On the surface or "up front", eliminating overnight, public lighting
might appear to save some money. *In reality, the CO$T to a community
from such "savings" would quickly become apparent in the form of
diminished public safety (increased accidents, etc) and increased crime.

If you think there are too many tire slashings and window smashings NOW,
just turn off the street lights for a while and see how much such crime
increases.

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

Great. *Let them test such folly - then get back to the rest of us.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

That's almost a cliche of the Environmentalist Wacko movement: *Spend
millions of dollars to save a few dollars. *Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.

The irony of such technology is that it ignores the very basis of what
has driven mankind since the wheel: *Cost vs value.

You can bet that at least ONE householder in each area would turn the
lights back on - EACH NIGHT - just for the security they offer.

It is simply appalling to me that so many (too many) folks believe that
such a system would be a good thing. *They are incapable of seeing
beyond the simple function of turning off a street light.

I am honestly concerned for the future should such folly take an even
greater hold of our society. *There are so many BETTER things to concern
us and on which we should spend our money.
--
* * * * * *
JR
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is great. Was hoping to get ALL views of such an idea. Additional
views are most welcome. Please.

Here; in addition to two or three street lights within view from this
home in a smaller town not too far from a small city in North America
we have the following for outside 'night' lighting.
1) One 50 watt 'long life' bulb over front door step. This mainly to
ensure that there is a steady light in case someone does come to the
door and for visiting neighbours who drop in for a chat and cup of
tea. It also would satisfy an insurance requirement that we, as
householder provide suitable lighting. The bulb is on for about ten to
12 hours per night (at this time of year). And is replaced every few
years. It can be reached by standing on a chair. It can also be
operated on/off via a key chain 'fob' similar to that used as car
remote door opener.
2) Motion detector twin light fixture over garage door; it operates
only after dusk and comes on when a person or vehicle is about half
way up driveway. Presently adjusted to stay on for several minutes.
Long enough to get groceries out of vehicle.
3) Similar motion detector on other end of house where there is some 8
to 10 feet clearance from fence and next house is some 50 feet away.
This sometimes gets operated by a prowling cat or tree movement during
heavy winds.
4) Two enclosed bulb fixtures 40 watters IIRC, on patio deck, operated
by a switch located next to sliding glass doors to deck at rear of
house. Occasionally operated, don't think have replaced a bulb in them
for past 5 years.

There is very little activity either walking or vehicles after say
1.00 AM. With my existing lighting the street lights could be out I
reckon. In fact if my motion detector lights came on in otherwise
darkness it would signal neighbours opposite that something was moving
around my house..

Oh by the way it is possible to, electrically, connect to the output
wire of those motion sensors and via, say a low voltage transformer,
operate a buzzer or even use the low voltage as input to my house
alarm system.

On Jan 7, 8:03*am, " wrote:
lights deter drug sales, vandalism, grafitti artists and help
percieved safety.


Four statements in that sentence. The first three are unsupportable
mythology, the last, "perceived" safety, is certainly correct.
Fighting crime through lighting is one of those "commonly accepted as
true" ideas that the data doesn't support.

Yes, in Europe most communities switch off some though not all lights
during times of low traffic flow when they aren't useful. That
includes overhead street lighting as well as traffic signals. But in
the parts of Europe where I lived, people went to bed early too, so it
might not work as well in the US.

In article ,
Jim Redelfs wrote:


Could save some small municipalities some cost?

On the surface or "up front", eliminating overnight, public lighting
might appear to save some money. In reality, the CO$T to a community
from such "savings" would quickly become apparent in the form of
diminished public safety (increased accidents, etc) and increased crime.

Not to mention the increased costs of installing and maintaining the
motion sensitive stuff. The increased costs related to replacing lights
that burn out faster because they are turned on and off more often.
Etc., etc., etc.,


However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

That's almost a cliche of the Environmentalist Wacko movement: Spend
millions of dollars to save a few dollars. Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

Ignoring the costs of setting up and running a system, even if
computer run. I am not sure how they would spend the 20 seconds of
savings before kids decide that turning on the lights is this
generation's equivalent of calling a store to see if they had Prince
Albert in a can.

On Jan 7, 8:31*am, terry wrote:
On Jan 7, 9:56*am, Jim Redelfs wrote:



In article
,

*terry wrote:
Often wondered why street lights on all night.

The value of overnight street lighting was established CENTURIES ago. *
It provides improved public safety, particularly crime suppression.

Wasted energy etc.

One man's "waste" is another man's "value".

unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated
by coal or other fossil fuel.

True "pollution" by such industries has all but been eliminated,
compared to a mere, few decades ago. *Most so-called environmentally
conscious or proactive folks are not old enough to remember how things
were. *I remember black clouds of coal smoke. *"Chimney scrubbers" were
developed and deployed, to name just ONE of the many improvements that
have made low sulphur coal combustion almost clean.

...and carbon dioxide, a gas produced by ALL living creatures, is NOT a
pollutant despite baseless, contrary claims.

Could save some small municipalities some cost?

On the surface or "up front", eliminating overnight, public lighting
might appear to save some money. *In reality, the CO$T to a community
from such "savings" would quickly become apparent in the form of
diminished public safety (increased accidents, etc) and increased crime..

If you think there are too many tire slashings and window smashings NOW,
just turn off the street lights for a while and see how much such crime
increases.

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

Great. *Let them test such folly - then get back to the rest of us.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

That's almost a cliche of the Environmentalist Wacko movement: *Spend
millions of dollars to save a few dollars. *Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.

The irony of such technology is that it ignores the very basis of what
has driven mankind since the wheel: *Cost vs value.

You can bet that at least ONE householder in each area would turn the
lights back on - EACH NIGHT - just for the security they offer.

It is simply appalling to me that so many (too many) folks believe that
such a system would be a good thing. *They are incapable of seeing
beyond the simple function of turning off a street light.

I am honestly concerned for the future should such folly take an even
greater hold of our society. *There are so many BETTER things to concern
us and on which we should spend our money.
--
* * * * * *
JR

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*------------------------------------------------------------

This is great. Was hoping to get ALL views of such an idea. Additional
views are most welcome. Please.

Here; in addition to two or three street lights within view from this
home in a smaller town not too far from a small city in North America
we have the following for outside 'night' lighting.
1) One 50 watt 'long life' bulb over front door step. This mainly to
ensure that there is a steady light in case someone does come to the
door and for visiting neighbours who drop in for a chat and cup of
tea. It also would satisfy an insurance requirement that we, as
householder provide suitable lighting. The bulb is on for about ten to
12 hours per night (at this time of year). And is replaced every few
years. It can be reached by standing on a chair. It can also be
operated on/off via a key chain 'fob' similar to that used as car
remote door opener.
2) Motion detector twin light fixture over garage door; it operates
only after dusk and comes on when a person or vehicle is about half
way up driveway. Presently adjusted to stay on for several minutes.
Long enough to get groceries out of vehicle.
3) Similar motion detector on other end of house where there is some 8
to 10 feet clearance from fence and next house is some 50 feet away.
This sometimes gets operated by a prowling cat or tree movement during
heavy winds.
4) Two enclosed bulb fixtures 40 watters IIRC, on patio deck, operated
by a switch located next to sliding glass doors to deck at rear of
house. Occasionally operated, don't think have replaced a bulb in them
for past 5 years.

There is very little activity either walking or vehicles after say
1.00 AM. With my existing lighting the street lights could be out I
reckon. In fact if my motion detector lights came on in otherwise
darkness it would signal neighbours opposite that something was moving
around my house..

Oh by the way it is possible to, electrically, connect to the output
wire of those motion sensors and via, say a low voltage transformer,
operate a buzzer or even it is possible to, electrically, connect to the output
wire of those motion sensors and via, say a low voltage transformer,
operate a buzzer or even use the low voltage as input to my house
alarm system.

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

it is possible to, electrically, connect to the output wire of
those motion sensors and via, say a low voltage transformer operate a
buzzer

Yes...but don't complain every time a neighborhood cat or raccoon
sounds the buzzer.

or even use the low voltage as input to my house alarm system.

Call your alarm company for a answer specific to your system.

terry wrote:
Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?


For the same reason that street lights are (usually) not on during the
daytime. Street lights are on at night so people (mostly) and animals can
see.

They also act as a deterrent - roaches don't like light.

I live across the street from an apartment house. There is a largish street
light in front of my house that illuminates the street (of course) and the
parking lot of the apartment complex. Every time the light goes out (the
last time because some fool hit it while doing about 100mph) the goblins at
the apartment house come out to play. For all I can tell, they are dancing
around semi-naked while chanting unintelligible incantations to something
that cannot even charitably be called music. It's spooky and the only thing
I can do is maintain a well-armed vigilance lest their witch-doctor lose
control or they run out of virgins.

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:


I can do is maintain a well-armed vigilance lest their witch-doctor lose
control or they run out of virgins.

In this day and age, I think the latter is much more likely.

HeyBub wrote:
terry wrote:
Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?


For the same reason that street lights are (usually) not on during the
daytime. Street lights are on at night so people (mostly) and animals can
see.

They also act as a deterrent - roaches don't like light.

I live across the street from an apartment house. There is a largish street
light in front of my house that illuminates the street (of course) and the
parking lot of the apartment complex. Every time the light goes out (the
last time because some fool hit it while doing about 100mph) the goblins at
the apartment house come out to play. For all I can tell, they are dancing
around semi-naked while chanting unintelligible incantations to something
that cannot even charitably be called music. It's spooky and the only thing
I can do is maintain a well-armed vigilance lest their witch-doctor lose
control or they run out of virgins.


LOL

Lou

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:03:54 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

lights deter drug sales, vandalism, grafitti artists and help
percieved safety.


No. Lights do not deter crime. Lights do move it however.

Many years ago when I was studying stoical analysis I remember
a famous study done by a maker of street lighting equipment and the
commercial power companies. They took a high crime area, they studied
the crime in the area, then they put street lights up on even numbered
streets and left the off numbered street without. After some time
they then gathered the information and found that crime on the streets
with lights was greatly reduced. After some effort as they did not
initially publish it, it was found that crime rates on the streets
that were not lit almost doubled, so there was no statically
significant reduction in overall crime.

The real conclusion to be drawn is that someone who wants to
commit a crime will not be stopped by a light, but may move his crime
away from the light.

Another study proved that putting lighting on the freeways
near the entrances exits and other high risk areas reduced he overall
accident rates much better than lighting all the freeway. It is
believed that the additional lighting helps wake people up and get
their attention when they will need it most.

By selectively reducing the lighting on our freeways, we could
reduce accidents. Have we done it. Very little. People tend to
believe more is always better so they want more, not better.

In article ,
wrote:

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:03:54 -0800 (PST), "
h
The real conclusion to be drawn is that someone who wants to
commit a crime will not be stopped by a light, but may move his crime
away from the light.

Which is yet another reason to keep as much as lit as possible.

On Jan 7, 10:56*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 7, 8:31*am, terry wrote:



On Jan 7, 9:56*am, Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article
,

*terry wrote:
Often wondered why street lights on all night.

The value of overnight street lighting was established CENTURIES ago. *
It provides improved public safety, particularly crime suppression.

Wasted energy etc.

One man's "waste" is another man's "value".

unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated
by coal or other fossil fuel.

True "pollution" by such industries has all but been eliminated,
compared to a mere, few decades ago. *Most so-called environmentally
conscious or proactive folks are not old enough to remember how things
were. *I remember black clouds of coal smoke. *"Chimney scrubbers" were
developed and deployed, to name just ONE of the many improvements that
have made low sulphur coal combustion almost clean.

...and carbon dioxide, a gas produced by ALL living creatures, is NOT a
pollutant despite baseless, contrary claims.

Could save some small municipalities some cost?

On the surface or "up front", eliminating overnight, public lighting
might appear to save some money. *In reality, the CO$T to a community
from such "savings" would quickly become apparent in the form of
diminished public safety (increased accidents, etc) and increased crime.

If you think there are too many tire slashings and window smashings NOW,
just turn off the street lights for a while and see how much such crime
increases.

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

Great. *Let them test such folly - then get back to the rest of us.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

That's almost a cliche of the Environmentalist Wacko movement: *Spend
millions of dollars to save a few dollars. *Penny-wise and pound-foolish.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.

The irony of such technology is that it ignores the very basis of what
has driven mankind since the wheel: *Cost vs value.

You can bet that at least ONE householder in each area would turn the
lights back on - EACH NIGHT - just for the security they offer.

It is simply appalling to me that so many (too many) folks believe that
such a system would be a good thing. *They are incapable of seeing
beyond the simple function of turning off a street light.

I am honestly concerned for the future should such folly take an even
greater hold of our society. *There are so many BETTER things to concern
us and on which we should spend our money.
--
* * * * * *
JR

---------------------------------------------------------------------------**------------------------------------------------------------

This is great. Was hoping to get ALL views of such an idea. Additional
views are most welcome. Please.

Here; in addition to two or three street lights within view from this
home in a smaller town not too far from a small city in North America
we have the following for outside 'night' lighting.
1) One 50 watt 'long life' bulb over front door step. This mainly to
ensure that there is a steady light in case someone does come to the
door and for visiting neighbours who drop in for a chat and cup of
tea. It also would satisfy an insurance requirement that we, as
householder provide suitable lighting. The bulb is on for about ten to
12 hours per night (at this time of year). And is replaced every few
years. It can be reached by standing on a chair. It can also be
operated on/off via a key chain 'fob' similar to that used as car
remote door opener.
2) Motion detector twin light fixture over garage door; it operates
only after dusk and comes on when a person or vehicle is about half
way up driveway. Presently adjusted to stay on for several minutes.
Long enough to get groceries out of vehicle.
3) Similar motion detector on other end of house where there is some 8
to 10 feet clearance from fence and next house is some 50 feet away.
This sometimes gets operated by a prowling cat or tree movement during
heavy winds.
4) Two enclosed bulb fixtures 40 watters IIRC, on patio deck, operated
by a switch located next to sliding glass doors to deck at rear of
house. Occasionally operated, don't think have replaced a bulb in them
for past 5 years.

There is very little activity either walking or vehicles after say
1.00 AM. With my existing lighting the street lights could be out I
reckon. In fact if my motion detector lights came on in otherwise
darkness it would signal neighbours opposite that something was moving
around my house..

Oh by the way it is possible to, electrically, connect to the output
wire of those motion sensors and via, say a low voltage transformer,
operate a buzzer or even it is possible to, electrically, connect to the output
wire of those motion sensors and via, say a low voltage transformer,
operate a buzzer or even use the low voltage as input to my house

alarm system.

- Hide quoted text -



- Show quoted text -

it is possible to, electrically, connect to the output wire of
those motion sensors and via, say a low voltage transformer operate a
buzzer

Yes...but don't complain every time a neighborhood cat or raccoon
sounds the buzzer.

or even use the low voltage as input to my house alarm system.

Call your alarm company for a answer specific to your system.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh dear why do people make assumptions?

A low buzzer, like noticing "Oh one of the outside lights is on. I
wonder why?" and then investigating is not a nuisance. It merely tells
you that one of the neighbous kids has walked past on the way to some
evening event at the nearby school!

No raccoons here; neighbours cats are known and usually in at night.

Also do not assume the alarm is tied into an alarm company, it's not.
However on the odd occasion we are away it sounds across the street in
my neighbour's house (I do the same for them if/when they are away)
and operates a small horn and some other devices I will not mention
for security.

On Jan 7, 1:25 am, terry wrote:
Often wondered why street lights on all night. ...
... Could save some small municipalities some cost?
....

Actually, maybe, maybe not. Most municipalities have contracts w/ the
utilities for streetlights that have provisions for minimal usage in
order to obtain more favorable overall rates.

A nearby decent-sized town here has a new municipal industrial park
they've been trying to get off the ground. Needless to say, things
are a little slow right now and it's unoccupied but the lighting is
on. "Investigation of the waste" by the local news babe uncovered the
fact that they can't turn the streetlights off by contract or the
utility can cease to maintain their transmission lines to the area
(which, of course, also server other portions of the city/county)
because that was the incentive for them to invest the extra $$ for the
longer term upgrade of the system.

"There's no free lunch"

--

On Jan 7, 1:25*am, terry wrote:
Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.


It is harder to sue someone in Germany too. In the US the day someone
is robbed or has a fender bender in an unlit parking lot, the cost to
the business will probably be a few years worth of electricity. Same
with municipalities. It is not economical to not have street lights.

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:25:58 -0800 (PST), terry
wrote:

Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.


City governments (like any government operation) spends *your* money,
so they waste a lot of it. It is much easier to raise taxes than
conserve. Lighted streets have some value with deterring crime.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:03:02 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:25:58 -0800 (PST), terry
wrote:

Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

I guess it would be better to have them on during the day?

Just why do you suppose we have street lights?

But we have too many lights were no one is using them. Look at the empty
parking lots and building that are well lit at midnight. Every time I'm in
a plane landing at night, I just marvel at the waste of electricity. Motion
detectors would make sense, At least reduced lighting in many places.


What gets me are these car dealers who leave lights on all night, and
lots of the very high powered types too. WHY? I dont know about you,
but even if I am looking to buy a car, I dont shop for them at night.
I understand where these dealers want some security lights, but all
they would need would be a few low powered spot lights. They dont
need to make it look like daytime, which is precisely what they do.
I think this is one of the biggest energy wastes of all. Even if they
want lights in the early evening for people who want to look at their
cars, a timer could shut these lights off at 10pm or something. Of
course those of us buying cars are paying for all the excessive wasted
power.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:21:47 -0600, Jim Redelfs
wrote:

A long time ago, SOME of us learned that constantly turning-on and
turning-off a lamp was usually more expensive than leaving it on. This
hasn't changed.


This is bull****. Turning on and off an incadescent light does not
use more energy, and if the off period is more than a few seconds,
energy will be saved. It's known that flashing christmas lights use
less power than when they are on all the time.

I'd think the same would be true for florescent and halogen lighting.
Now these mercury vapor lights are another story, they need to cycle
up to full brightness and that takes several minutes.

On the other hand, turning on an off a motor is a different matter.
Motors draw a heavy current when they start, so it's best to leave the
motor running if it's only off for a brief moment. Of course if it's
going to be off for an hour, then it's better to turn it off.

In article ,
Jimw wrote:


What gets me are these car dealers who leave lights on all night, and
lots of the very high powered types too. WHY? I dont know about you,
but even if I am looking to buy a car, I dont shop for them at night.
But if I am looking for parts and the place is dark I would
certainly go there at night. Lessen theft and vandalism.

In article ,
Jim Redelfs wrote:

The next time you are in a plane landing at night, advise the Captain
that you'd like the airport to turn off their lights to save energy.

I actually don't think he was referring to runway lighting, just the
general amount of light emanating from a city at night. But, since you
brought it up, runway lights at many smaller airports *are* controlled
by the incoming pilot.

On Jan 7, 10:31*am, Jimw wrote:
What gets me are these car dealers who leave lights on all night, and
lots of the very high powered types too. *WHY? *

Because lights make would-be thieves and vandals visible to any
passers-by, and video surveillance.

Keeping the lights on is cheaper than paying the insurance premiums
after all the cars on your lot have been stripped under the cover of
darkness once or twice.

On Jan 7, 9:18*am, wrote:
* * * * The real conclusion to be drawn is that someone who wants to
commit a crime will not be stopped by a light, but may move his crime
away from the light.

If this is the level of logical thought our human race has been
reduced to, I want out.

On Jan 7, 9:29*am, terry wrote:
Oh dear why do people make assumptions?

A low buzzer, like noticing "Oh one of the outside lights is on. I
wonder why?" and then investigating is not a nuisance. It merely tells
you that one of the neighbous kids has walked past on the way to some
evening event at the nearby school!

If all the passing traffic is benign, then why do you need a buzzer to
alert you to it?

Better question, why do you need a motion light connected to a buzzer
if your neighborhood is so safe?

No raccoons here; neighbours cats are known and usually in at night.

There are vermin and critters running around in every neighborhood.
Don't kid yourself.

What gets me are these car dealers who leave lights on all night, and
lots of the very high powered types too. �WHY? �I dont know about you,
but even if I am looking to buy a car, I dont shop for them at night.

� � �But if I am looking for parts and the place is dark I would
certainly go there at night. Lessen theft and vandalism.

very much true.lighting deters car vandalism and parts removal

I tried repeatedly those motion sensitve lights.

geez what a waste of time and money. what worked good in summer was
overly sensitive in winter. trucks driving by could set it off
anytime.plus pssing raccons and other wildlife

I finally settled on a pole lamp withh dusk to dawn sensor on a timer.

on at 6 AM off at midnite. any time between these hours and dark light
is on. occasionally its during a mid day storm.with a 23Watt CF its
efficent and realtively low cost.

although the CF lamps fail about once a year, when LEDs get better I
will go to them, currently not brite enough

On Jan 7, 10:19*am, Phisherman wrote:
Lighted streets have some value with deterring crime. *


Maybe. More likely the low crime streets with affluent residents
don't shoot their lights out and do insist on them being repaired.
The low budget city works depts don't put a lot of effort into fixing
lights in high crime areas. So yeah I'd expect a brighter street is
probably safer crime wise, but wouldn't ascribe the cause to the
lights.

Bright lights don't keep the raccoons out of my garbage cans but
movement does. Lighting a property when nobody is observing just
helps the criminals work faster and safer.

I would bet auto sales lots use the lighting for advertising purposes,
not crime prevention.

why have them at all if they're not on when it's dark?

duh


s


"terry" wrote in message
...
Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.

UHHH duh...... can you spell S-E-C-U-R-I-T-Y???? a car lot is much
less likely to be vandalized if the lot is lit so the little *******s can be
seen.

s


"Jimw" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:03:02 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:25:58 -0800 (PST), terry
wrote:

Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

I guess it would be better to have them on during the day?

Just why do you suppose we have street lights?

But we have too many lights were no one is using them. Look at the empty
parking lots and building that are well lit at midnight. Every time I'm
in
a plane landing at night, I just marvel at the waste of electricity.
Motion
detectors would make sense, At least reduced lighting in many places.


What gets me are these car dealers who leave lights on all night, and
lots of the very high powered types too. WHY? I dont know about you,
but even if I am looking to buy a car, I dont shop for them at night.
I understand where these dealers want some security lights, but all
they would need would be a few low powered spot lights. They dont
need to make it look like daytime, which is precisely what they do.
I think this is one of the biggest energy wastes of all. Even if they
want lights in the early evening for people who want to look at their
cars, a timer could shut these lights off at 10pm or something. Of
course those of us buying cars are paying for all the excessive wasted
power.

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message

Therein lies one of my concerns, Ed: I fear for the day when
like-minded folks gain control of such things. The decision by the
Ministry of Overnight Lighting to force private consumers into darkness
(among many, other things) would be a terrible thing.


No need to force educated people to be sensible about utility consumption.
Just keep an eye on your wallet and decide from there.


Look at the empty parking lots and building that
are well lit at midnight.

Have you considered WHY they are empty? One reason they are empty is
BECAUSE they are illuminated.

I'm talking about huge parking lots at factories and shopping centers that
have every light on. Sure, keep a few security light, but not every light
in 10 acres of lot. Same with buildings. Reduce. Cut by half or 2/3 or
so.



Every time I'm in a plane landing at night,
I just marvel at the waste of electricity.

That is a ridiculous statement, but I'll leave the ridicule to other,
ahem enlightened persons. If you wish to save energy or, amazingly,
the planet, take the train or stay home.

The next time you are in a plane landing at night, advise the Captain
that you'd like the airport to turn off their lights to save energy.
Better yet, make the flight on ONE engine. Sheesh!


Oh, aren't you the smarmy one. Flying makes sense and I'm not trying to
eliminate, just reduce use. OUr tax dollars are paying for some of that
lighting and part of every retail purchase we make contribues too. What
is hte sense of having big signs lit up when there is one car per hour
going down t he street? Airport lights are bing used, but the Circuit City
sign is nto drawing customers at midnight.



Motion detectors would make sense, At least reduced lighting in many
places.

A long time ago, SOME of us learned that constantly turning-on and
turning-off a lamp was usually more expensive than leaving it on. This
hasn't changed.

So, leaving a light burn for 9 hours maikes sense? Give me a break. Some
lights do take time to heat up, but there are many different situations.
Your generalization just sounds dumb.





As kids, playing outdoors at dusk, one of us was the "winner" if we were
the first to call out "street light" when it came on. The advantages of
turning-off public lighting during daytime hours are well known. The
advantages of turning-ON such lighting after dark are likewise well
known, at least by those with half a brain.

Those brains are finding there have been many misonceptions too. Educate
yoruself.


Parking lot operators are driven by cost, just like any other business.
When it is clear there is money to be SAVED (overall) by keeping their
property in the dark overnight, it will happen on its own. I rue the
day when it is mandated by government.

Yep, some are getting smart and turning lights off when not in use. About
time. We need more educated people. I'm also talking about private lots at
empty office building, shopping centers, factories.

wrote in message

take a empty car parking lot, your car may not have started after
work, so you got a ride with a friend and left it till morning.

would you want the lights off, returning in the morning to a empty
lot, car stolen? or prefer you car on blocks totally stripped?

************************************************** ******

I'd like to see the cost/benefit ratio on that. Many years ago my car was
stripped in a parking lot. It was well lit and people were working inside at
the time. The car was being junked anyway so it was no loss for me or my
insurance company. OTOH, even if the loss was $2000, how many dollars are
spent in the US to keep lights on in empty lots? Do we really need all of
them on? How about a 75% reduction? .

"TimR" wrote in message

I would bet auto sales lots use the lighting for advertising purposes,
not crime prevention.
********************************************

I can buy that argument at 9 PM, but not so much a 3 AM

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:09:54 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 7, 10:31*am, Jimw wrote:
What gets me are these car dealers who leave lights on all night, and
lots of the very high powered types too. *WHY? *

Because lights make would-be thieves and vandals visible to any
passers-by, and video surveillance.

Keeping the lights on is cheaper than paying the insurance premiums
after all the cars on your lot have been stripped under the cover of
darkness once or twice.

I guess no one read my whole message. I did mention to keep on some
SECURITY lights. But there's a big difference between security and
what many of these lots use.

I used to live on a farm and I know how much light comes from one of
those mercury vapor or sodium pole lights. Two or three of those
would be plenty for security and they consume something in the range
of 70 to 150W each. But even the smaller car dealers are running
multiple halogen floodlights that are at least 1000W each. Then they
have many other lights on top of that. I dont doubt that even the
smallest dealers are burning up 10,000W at minimum all night every
night. And larger lots are using much more than that. There's a big
difference between security and pure waste.

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:25:58 -0800 (PST), terry
wrote:

Often wondered why street lights on all night.

Ever been into an inner city area? Miami has an area called the
Pork-N-Beans projects, located about Liberty City. Adjacent to Little
Havana. The lights have an orange color, so people can see better into
the night.

Once in Liberty City I experienced a few locals that had bones pierced
through their noses. That was in daylight, can you imagine what the
night looks like there?

On 1/7/2009 10:24 AM Steve Barker spake thus:

UHHH duh...... can you spell S-E-C-U-R-I-T-Y???? a car lot is much
less likely to be vandalized if the lot is lit so the little *******s can be
seen.

Um, duh, can you, like, *read*? The person you responded to addressed
security.

****ing top poster.


"Jimw" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:03:02 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:25:58 -0800 (PST), terry
wrote:

Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

I guess it would be better to have them on during the day?

Just why do you suppose we have street lights?

But we have too many lights were no one is using them. Look at the empty
parking lots and building that are well lit at midnight. Every time I'm
in
a plane landing at night, I just marvel at the waste of electricity.
Motion
detectors would make sense, At least reduced lighting in many places.


What gets me are these car dealers who leave lights on all night, and
lots of the very high powered types too. WHY? I dont know about you,
but even if I am looking to buy a car, I dont shop for them at night.
I understand where these dealers want some security lights, but all
they would need would be a few low powered spot lights. They dont
need to make it look like daytime, which is precisely what they do.
I think this is one of the biggest energy wastes of all. Even if they
want lights in the early evening for people who want to look at their
cars, a timer could shut these lights off at 10pm or something. Of
course those of us buying cars are paying for all the excessive wasted
power.


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire

"terry" wrote in message
...
Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.


A 2002 DOE report found that outdoor lighting in the U.S. used 58,000+
gigawatt hours/year. 93% of that went for roadway and parking area lighting.

And, that total doesn't include night sports lighting, on-premise signs,
building floodlighting or landscape/decorative lighting.

There are certainly savings to be had no matter what you think about light
and crime or safety. For example, what about the wasted light -- that
portion that just goes directly up into the sky from poorly shielded
streetlights? That waste has been estimated at 30% of the total power used
by streetlighting by the International Dark-Sky Association. So, just
controlling the wasted light would save $1.7+ billion per year if the
electricity costs $.10/kWh. Depending upon the fuel used to generate the
energy, less oil or coal would be used and less C02 and other environmental
pollutants would be emitted.

So, at least reducing the wasted light that does no one any good seems like
a no-brainer plus, as others have said, turning off or dimming down some
streetlights late at night when traffic is light, especially on freeways,
makes sense too.

Streetlights can now be addressed individually via internet technology and
so dimmed down or turned off when not needed.

Some streetlighting is also excessively bright as the newer car headlights
have some 4X the light output of older headlights. Oddly enough,
headlighting doesn't seem to have been taken into account in the lighting
designs for most traffic streets and highways.

TKM

****ing asshole bottom poster.


"David Nebenzahl" mumbled some **** he knew nothing
about in message s.com...

wrote in message
...
On Jan 7, 9:18 am, wrote:
The real conclusion to be drawn is that someone who wants to
commit a crime will not be stopped by a light, but may move his crime
away from the light.

If this is the level of logical thought our human race has been
reduced to, I want out.

How about this logic? If light reduces crime, why isn't crime, especially
household robbery, substantially lower during the daylight hours?

TKM