Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:24:32 -0800 (PST) someone who may be terry
wrote this:-

Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

Because electricity was too cheap and so councils generally didn't
bother, especially when they switched from time clocks to
photocells. However, there were places in the 1970s where the street
lights went off at around ISTR midnight, I suspect that at the time
they had not been converted to photocell operation.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
clumsy ******* writes:
David Hansen wrote:

Because electricity was too cheap and so councils generally didn't
bother, especially when they switched from time clocks to
photocells. However, there were places in the 1970s where the street
lights went off at around ISTR midnight, I suspect that at the time
they had not been converted to photocell operation.

There was a large new estate near me where all the original small
mercury vapour lamps went off at midnight. There was an enormous
campaign to have them on all night, and the council eventually
replaced them all with low pressure sodium on photocells (which
was cheaper to run than the mercury ones switching off at midnight).

they are also supposed to deter crime and reduce accidents, its
something that changes as priorities change, no doubt "green" is now a
bigger consideration, but lampposts are usually not brand new.

They turn out to have a much more significant crime reduction
effect than CCTV does, something which the government reminded
local councils a number of times as they were all fighting for
large funds to install and run CCTV systems.

None of the currently used streetlamp technologies are much
good for frequent switching. Indeed, the technologies have been
driven mainly by minimising relamping costs, and the technologies
used currently really depend on only one switchon/day for the long
lamp life. Allowing people to switch them on for 15 - 60 minutes
as was done in the German trial would add enormous costs for
relamping, using current the current technologies.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

terry wrote:
Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.

Didn't it start in the days of coal generation with the promise of
atomic? When the night-time demand was much smaller than the daytime.
Before the days of fast reaction gas turbines. When things like Economy
7 were dreamed up.

Round here the council has switched off large amounts of street lighting
- entirely. In some places they have used LEDs instead of catseyes as a
sop. (Having driven along them, I quite like them - but ideally there
would also be edge LEDs.)

But lighting is so very uneven. Not far away there is an area where they
have absolutely no lighting - and it seems the reason is something to do
with heritage - never had any so putting it in would change the nature.
This despite having built lots and lots of new housing.

Where I am we have too much. On a small footpath between houses (surely
less than 100 metres) there are two - both recently replaced. When one
was broken it was much more appropriate! (With snow on the ground, the
new downwardly directed lamps make it like daylight out there.)

There was a recent local news story (probably in Hampshire), where a
village had somehow got funding to pay for lighting - so it was switched
back on.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

In message , David Hansen
writes
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:24:32 -0800 (PST) someone who may be terry
wrote this:-

Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

Because electricity was too cheap and so councils generally didn't
bother, especially when they switched from time clocks to
photocells. However, there were places in the 1970s where the street
lights went off at around ISTR midnight, I suspect that at the time
they had not been converted to photocell operation.


Yep, I can certainly remember living somewhere when I was a kid where
the streetlights used to turn off around then.

Also remember living somewhere else where they didn't and there used to
be a confused blackbird who'd sit on the streetlight at in the middle of
the night singing
--
Chris French

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 08:56:44 +0000, clumsy ******* wrote:

David Hansen wrote:

Because electricity was too cheap and so councils generally didn't
bother

they are also supposed to deter crime and reduce accidents, its
something that changes as priorities change, no doubt "green" is now a
bigger consideration, but lampposts are usually not brand new.

I've often thought that it would make sense to turn off every other light
for a portion of the night. It would still give reasonable lighting for
most purposes, while saving electricity.

It'd obviously only make sense for new installations, but could then also
incorporate a system where if a lit lamp fails, the ones either side turn
back on so that there isn't a long dark area.

SteveW

clumsy ******* wrote:
David Hansen wrote:

Because electricity was too cheap and so councils generally didn't
bother

they are also supposed to deter crime and reduce accidents, its
something that changes as priorities change, no doubt "green" is now a
bigger consideration, but lampposts are usually not brand new.

always completely confused me..


I fell far safer walking down an unlit track with no moon, than down a
deserted street with lights. Heck, if I cant see where I am going, who
can see me?

terry wrote:
Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/7784212.stm

chris French wrote:
Also remember living somewhere else where they didn't and there used to
be a confused blackbird who'd sit on the streetlight at in the middle of
the night singing

It's more often a robin.

I remember getting up in the middle of the night once and taping this
birdsong, hoping it was a Nightingale. It wasn't.

Andy

On Jan 7, 8:56*am, clumsy ******* wrote:
David Hansen wrote:
Because electricity was too cheap and so councils generally didn't
bother

they are also supposed to deter crime and reduce accidents, its
something that changes as priorities change, no doubt "green" is now a
bigger consideration, but lampposts are usually not brand new.
--
all thumbs


One of the things I always notice when visiting Oslo is how many unlit
places there are in the city compared with UK cities. I think it's
the lower crime rate there which means that it's not necessary to
illuminate every little nook and cranny.

Robert

On 7 Jan, 07:24, terry wrote:
Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

I live in a Somerset village, and the street lights turn off at about
midnight, and come back on at some point in the early morning. When
new lights have been installed recently to replace old lights, these
have been fitted with timers. These are apparently more expensive to
buy than lights with photo-cells, even if they are cheaper to run.

dan.

On Jan 7, 7:24*am, terry wrote:
Often wondered why street lights on all night. Wasted energy etc. Also
unnecessary pollution where electrcity is generated by coal or other
fossil fuel. Could save some small municipalities some cost?

Apparently a German town/city has decided to turn them off.

However provision is made for residents to call a telephone code that
will switch them on for a timed period in their area. The call can be
made from a home phone or from a mobile/cell phone etc.

So it would appear that a householder could turn them on; as could
someone making a late night delivery, a taxi driver looking for
certain street etc.

There are quite a few places in Buckinghamshire where the streetlights
have been turned off completely. One amusing juxtaposition of signs on
the A418 into Aylesbury reads something like "drive carefully, XX
casualties in Y years" followed a few yards further on by "Street
lighting not in use". Couldn't possibly be any connection, could
there?

MBQ

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:13:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I fell far safer walking down an unlit track with no moon,

And no cloud? Starlight isn't bad but it don't take much cloud to block
that out. Then it's black, pitch black black, unless of course you get
reflected steet light pollution from the clouds....

--
Cheers
Dave.

clumsy ******* gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

how many people could actually see to stop if there was an unlit
obstruction on an unlit motorway at 70mph with dipped headlights and a
bit of oncoming dazzle?

If you're getting oncoming dazzle on a motorway, then you either need an
eyetest desperately or you're driving down the wrong carriageway.

I'm beginning to see where your posting name came from.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 09:42:52 +0000, Rod wrote:
Didn't it start in the days of coal generation with the promise of
atomic? When the night-time demand was much smaller than the daytime.
Before the days of fast reaction gas turbines. When things like Economy
7 were dreamed up.

Yes, I'd been told that years ago, too. Sounds sensible I suppose as I
believe back then power stations didn't really like running at idle, so
some sort of guaranteed minimum load 24x7 was useful.

Round here the council has switched off large amounts of street lighting
- entirely. In some places they have used LEDs instead of catseyes as a
sop. (Having driven along them, I quite like them - but ideally there
would also be edge LEDs.)

Ugh, I remember driving on a few roads with LEDs rather than reflective
catseyes, and I found them may too distracting (particularly if caught in
peripheral vision for any reason)

But lighting is so very uneven. Not far away there is an area where they
have absolutely no lighting - and it seems the reason is something to do
with heritage - never had any so putting it in would change the nature.
This despite having built lots and lots of new housing.

There's almost none out here in USVille - major intersections on highways
tend to be lit by a few lights, but that's it - no lighting on lesser
roads, no catseyes, no lighting on road signs. Driving in dark and wet
conditions can get interesting. (I really don't know why they've never
"invented" catseyes over here - I can understand the cost of lighting and
associated power infrastructure, but putting a few bits of reflective
glass in the road doesn't exactly seem hard)

cheers

Jules

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 08:11:46 -0600, Jules wrote:

In some places they have used LEDs instead of catseyes as a sop.
(Having driven along them, I quite like them - but ideally there
would also be edge LEDs.)

Ugh, I remember driving on a few roads with LEDs rather than reflective
catseyes, and I found them may too distracting (particularly if caught
in peripheral vision for any reason)

Agreed. The LED jobbies are awful, the flicker in your peripherial vision
is realy distracting. They put some in along the A689 just past Eden Hall
a year or so back, I'm glad to say that most of them have now stopped
working.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 7 Jan, 14:43, Huge wrote:
On 2009-01-07, Jules wrote:

(I really don't know why they've never
"invented" catseyes over here - I can understand the cost of lighting and
associated power infrastructure, but putting a few bits of reflective
glass in the road doesn't exactly seem hard)

I know exactly why. (My parents live in Pennsylvania). The snow ploughs tear
them out of the road.

In bits of Northern Continental Europe I have travelled in, plastic
posts are fixed either side of the carriageway, with a patch of white
reflective material one side and yellow t'other. They nicely delineate
the carriageway when there's snow on the ground.

On minor roads, bamboo sticks are stuck in the ground/snow at
intervals each side of the carriageway, with a strip of white
reflective material wrapped around near the top. They seem to be
replaced every so often as necessary.

Cheers,

Sid

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:13:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I fell far safer walking down an unlit track with no moon,

And no cloud? Starlight isn't bad but it don't take much cloud to block
that out. Then it's black, pitch black black, unless of course you get
reflected steet light pollution from the clouds....

But if you are expecting darkness you'd be mad not to have a suitable
torch. And the range of models, quality and, most especially, battery
life of torches these days is astounding. And the prices make them quite
accessible to most of us.

I remember getting a torch as a Christmas present and it was dull within
the hour. :-(

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
clumsy ******* gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

how many people could actually see to stop if there was an unlit
obstruction on an unlit motorway at 70mph with dipped headlights and a
bit of oncoming dazzle?

If you're getting oncoming dazzle on a motorway, then you either need an
eyetest desperately or you're driving down the wrong carriageway.

If you don't notice the dazzle on motorways *you* need an eye test.

wrote:
On 7 Jan, 14:43, Huge wrote:
On 2009-01-07, Jules wrote:

(I really don't know why they've never
"invented" catseyes over here - I can understand the cost of lighting and
associated power infrastructure, but putting a few bits of reflective
glass in the road doesn't exactly seem hard)
I know exactly why. (My parents live in Pennsylvania). The snow ploughs tear
them out of the road.

In bits of Northern Continental Europe I have travelled in, plastic
posts are fixed either side of the carriageway, with a patch of white
reflective material one side and yellow t'other. They nicely delineate
the carriageway when there's snow on the ground.

On minor roads, bamboo sticks are stuck in the ground/snow at
intervals each side of the carriageway, with a strip of white
reflective material wrapped around near the top. They seem to be
replaced every so often as necessary.

Cheers,

Sid

Similar in parts of Scotland - e.g. round from Thurso to Kyle of Tongue
and Durness (or thereabouts). (Not the bamboo as far as I am aware!)

Same ideas also help when the edges of roads are flooded, covered with
leaves or other extremely rare things not worth mentioning.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"terry" wrote in message
...
Often wondered why street lights on all night. ...

Mainly because it is both cheaper and more reliable that way, although there
are also safety considerations on major roads too. Dusk to dawn lighting
simply needs a very reliable and cheap photocell controller in each light
unit. The light columns can be connected directly to the nearest mains and
if one controller does fail only one light goes out. Timed lighting requires
a separate supply to the street lamps, running back to a central control
unit. If that fails, or gets out of step with the correct time, a whole bank
of lights are affected. Timers also need regular servicing, which adds
considerably to the cost. There were some experiments with individual timers
in each column, but that turned out to be a logistical nightmare.

Colin Bignell

nightjar cpb@ wrote:
"terry" wrote in message
...
Often wondered why street lights on all night. ...

Mainly because it is both cheaper and more reliable that way, although there
are also safety considerations on major roads too. Dusk to dawn lighting
simply needs a very reliable and cheap photocell controller in each light
unit. The light columns can be connected directly to the nearest mains and
if one controller does fail only one light goes out. Timed lighting requires
a separate supply to the street lamps, running back to a central control
unit. If that fails, or gets out of step with the correct time, a whole bank
of lights are affected. Timers also need regular servicing, which adds
considerably to the cost. There were some experiments with individual timers
in each column, but that turned out to be a logistical nightmare.

Colin Bignell


In these days of radio-controlled alarm clocks for a fiver (or less), is
having the correct time such a problem?

And what servicing does a timer need? Assuming a nice simple thing like
a central heating control. No moving parts. Nothing to go wrong except,
maybe, a replaceable rechargeable cell for backup.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On 7 Jan 2009 14:43:34 GMT, Huge wrote:

I know exactly why. (My parents live in Pennsylvania). The snow ploughs
tear them out of the road.

They don't up here, and yes I do live in a bit of England that does
require the roads to be ploughed fairly regulary. The hefty cast iron
casting set into the road should protect the rubber cats eye unit from
being ripped out. May be US cats eyes are of a different design?


--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:56:22 -0800 (PST), wrote:

In bits of Northern Continental Europe I have travelled in, plastic
posts are fixed either side of the carriageway,

All the roads out of here have 8' snow poles along the side of them...

--
Cheers
Dave.

Rod wrote:
wrote:
In bits of Northern Continental Europe I have travelled in, plastic
posts are fixed either side of the carriageway, with a patch of white
reflective material one side and yellow t'other. They nicely delineate
the carriageway when there's snow on the ground.

On minor roads, bamboo sticks are stuck in the ground/snow at
intervals each side of the carriageway, with a strip of white
reflective material wrapped around near the top. They seem to be
replaced every so often as necessary.


Similar in parts of Scotland - e.g. round from Thurso to Kyle of Tongue
and Durness (or thereabouts). (Not the bamboo as far as I am aware!)


Also on stretches of the road from Lairg up to Tongue.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:21:10 -0000, "nightjar".me.uk wrote:

There were some experiments with individual timers in each column, but
that turned out to be a logistical nightmare.

Rather more than "experiments". Before photcells came in every lampost had
a mechanical timer in the bottom. Quite a sophisticated jobbie as well as
it could take into account the seasons but not BST/GMT. I can remember the
man coming round adjusting them twice a year. This is probably from the
60's or 70's.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 06:56:22 -0800, unopened wrote:

On 7 Jan, 14:43, Huge wrote:
On 2009-01-07, Jules wrote:

(I really don't know why they've never
"invented" catseyes over here - I can understand the cost of lighting and
associated power infrastructure, but putting a few bits of reflective
glass in the road doesn't exactly seem hard)

I know exactly why. (My parents live in Pennsylvania). The snow ploughs tear
them out of the road.

In bits of Northern Continental Europe I have travelled in, plastic
posts are fixed either side of the carriageway, with a patch of white
reflective material one side and yellow t'other. They nicely delineate
the carriageway when there's snow on the ground.

Ahh - up here we do it by trying to judge where the snow isn't quite so
high, thus indicating where the last vehicle went through. :-)

On minor roads, bamboo sticks are stuck in the ground/snow at intervals
each side of the carriageway, with a strip of white reflective material
wrapped around near the top. They seem to be replaced every so often as
necessary.

Yes, none of that here - but just about every minor road has ditches
alongside it, so you can usually make out where the edge is (roughly).
There are snowmobile-related signs at a lot of intersections, so they tend
to provide a good indication of exactly where the junctions are.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:43:34 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2009-01-07, Jules wrote:

(I really don't know why they've never
"invented" catseyes over here - I can understand the cost of lighting and
associated power infrastructure, but putting a few bits of reflective
glass in the road doesn't exactly seem hard)

I know exactly why. (My parents live in Pennsylvania). The snow ploughs tear
them out of the road.

D'oh, yes - that hadn't occurred to me :-(
I still need to get a photo of a plough coming through; it's damn
impressive to see a 30' high cloud of snow getting chucked everywhere.

clumsy ******* wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote:

"drive carefully, XX
casualties in Y years" followed a few yards further on by "Street
lighting not in use". Couldn't possibly be any connection, could
there?

how many people could actually see to stop if there was an unlit
obstruction on an unlit motorway at 70mph with dipped headlights and a
bit of oncoming dazzle?

Most. I remember doing 135mph up the A10, and slowing down to 120mph
because I couldn't see far enough..

Well it was my one chance to drive the bosses Alfa GTV 2000 so I had to
didn't I?

Good lights on a decent car will pick out anything bright up to a mile
away: Not sure what 'standard stopping distances' are but I would expect
most cars to be able to stop from 100-120mph in under a mile.

One expects cars to be equipped with reflectors.

It's not unlit motorways at 3 a.m that are accident risks: Its crowded
ones at 8.30a.m. with everybody bleary eyed and blindly following the
car in front at 50 feet.

driving in the dark or rain actually makes people more nervous, and
they slow down far more.

Having lit up urban roads is a recipe for mad teenagers in TWOCced cars
to zoom around and kill people.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:13:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I fell far safer walking down an unlit track with no moon,

And no cloud? Starlight isn't bad but it don't take much cloud to block
that out. Then it's black, pitch black black, unless of course you get
reflected steet light pollution from the clouds....

Yup. And no reflected light either. Oddly enough, its actually quite
easy to do it once you forget eyesight.

Other senses work..you can hear the faint rustle of the hedges.. and you
can even hear your own breathing and footsteps being reflected off solid
objects. ..you an even run if you pick your feet way up high so as to
not trip on low level trash..


Try it sometime. Its actually interesting...

I used to cycle a lot on ulit roads as a teenager. Best to turn the
lights OFF if no cars around. You can in fact see further even in just
starlight..good moonlight is more than enough to drive in as well.

Rod wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:13:04 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I fell far safer walking down an unlit track with no moon,

And no cloud? Starlight isn't bad but it don't take much cloud to
block that out. Then it's black, pitch black black, unless of course
you get reflected steet light pollution from the clouds....

But if you are expecting darkness you'd be mad not to have a suitable
torch. And the range of models, quality and, most especially, battery
life of torches these days is astounding. And the prices make them quite
accessible to most of us.

A torch makes you a total target. Torches not required. A torch says 'I
am nervous of the dark'.

Learn to walk in pitch black without one.



I remember getting a torch as a Christmas present and it was dull within
the hour. :-(

Jules wrote:

Ugh, I remember driving on a few roads with LEDs rather than reflective
catseyes, and I found them may too distracting (particularly if caught in
peripheral vision for any reason)

Indeed, for power conservation reasons they strobe at a fast rate rather
than remain constantly lit. They also light in both directions such that
you see them in your rear view mirror, which is a bit distracting as
well I find.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

David Hansen used his keyboard to write :
Because electricity was too cheap and so councils generally didn't
bother, especially when they switched from time clocks to
photocells. However, there were places in the 1970s where the street
lights went off at around ISTR midnight, I suspect that at the time
they had not been converted to photocell operation.

They originally used mains signalling to turn them off and on.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:00:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Good lights on a decent car will pick out anything bright up to a mile
away: Not sure what 'standard stopping distances' are but I would expect
most cars to be able to stop from 100-120mph in under a mile.

It's people coming 'blind' out of side roads who have no ability for
judging the speed of through-traffic who can cause real messes in
situations like that, though.

It's not unlit motorways at 3 a.m that are accident risks: Its crowded
ones at 8.30a.m. with everybody bleary eyed and blindly following the
car in front at 50 feet.

50ft? More like 15...

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:21:10 -0000, "nightjar".me.uk wrote:

There were some experiments with individual timers in each column, but
that turned out to be a logistical nightmare.

Rather more than "experiments". Before photcells came in every lampost had
a mechanical timer in the bottom. Quite a sophisticated jobbie as well as
it could take into account the seasons but not BST/GMT. I can remember the
man coming round adjusting them twice a year. This is probably from the
60's or 70's.

That was when I was in the electricity supply industry. The usual
arrangement was a single timer in the local substation, operating a separate
sub main to run the street lights.

Colin Bignell

clumsy ******* wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Other senses work..you can hear the faint rustle of the hedges.. and you
can even hear your own breathing and footsteps being reflected off solid
objects. ..you an even run if you pick your feet way up high so as to
not trip on low level trash..

ahh, you already answered. How do you avoid low hanging tree branch or
a hole. Would any of the above have half a chance in a wind?

I fully agree that it is possible to walk in very dark places reasonably
safely. But nonetheless I would always carry a torch for the unexpected
such as dog mess on pavements.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Jules wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:00:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Good lights on a decent car will pick out anything bright up to a mile
away: Not sure what 'standard stopping distances' are but I would expect
most cars to be able to stop from 100-120mph in under a mile.

It's people coming 'blind' out of side roads who have no ability for
judging the speed of through-traffic who can cause real messes in
situations like that, though.

Not many of those on motorways..


It's not unlit motorways at 3 a.m that are accident risks: Its crowded
ones at 8.30a.m. with everybody bleary eyed and blindly following the
car in front at 50 feet.

50ft? More like 15...

clumsy ******* wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Learn to walk in pitch black without one.

how do you do that?

use all the senses you have.

When you have to walk dogs at night you discover that they, equipped
with ears and noses - manage perfectly ell, rushing all over the place.

clumsy ******* wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Other senses work..you can hear the faint rustle of the hedges.. and you
can even hear your own breathing and footsteps being reflected off solid
objects. ..you an even run if you pick your feet way up high so as to
not trip on low level trash..

ahh, you already answered. How do you avoid low hanging tree branch or
a hole. Would any of the above have half a chance in a wind?

Tree branches are bad. I hold a hand in front of my eyes.

Wind is also not so good. Yes, it tells you where the leaves are..but
masks everything.

it even screws up wildlife. I managed to shoot a pigeon with an air
rifle in a gale once. It didn't hear me coming.

clumsy ******* wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Good lights on a decent car will pick out anything bright up to a mile
away: Not sure what 'standard stopping distances' are but I would expect
most cars to be able to stop from 100-120mph in under a mile.

you will be on dipped in my scenario, like 99% of motorway traffic,
unless you are dazzling everybody. Dipped range is?


I wa on my own at the time..

Dipped takes ou down to at best 400 yards.

BUT if there is other traffic around, THEIR lights pick up the obstacles
etc.

(and not everything solid is bright)

One expects cars to be equipped with reflectors.

"expects" is a good word. Not everything that turns up in a
carriageway has reflectors, including crashed cars sideways on.
Ladders fallen off vans (seen that) cows (heard of that often) or
drunks.

And thats the same in bright daylight too.

shed loads and bits of car parts.. if a wheel comes barreling at 70mph
plus and hops the barrier, you have very little chance of doing anything.

There is no safe speed. Not even zero, on a motorway. You are playing
the percentages every time you turn the ignition on.