I have a washing machine and a shower in my basement. They are separated by
a wall. When the washing machine drains the water comes up the shower
drain. Most of the time it doesn't overflow and after a few minutes the
shower drains itself. Every once in a while it will overflow in the shower
and not drain at all, like yesterday. I ran a 25 foot snake down the drain
and it now acts as it always has.

I'd like for the washing machine not have water come up the shower drain.
Is it just a clog in the drain or is there something else, like poor design,
in play here?

TIA for any ideas.

BR

On Dec 29, 10:30*am, "Big Bubba" wrote:
I have a washing machine and a shower in my basement. *They are separated by
a wall. *When the washing machine drains the water comes up the shower
drain. *Most of the time it doesn't overflow and after a few minutes the
shower drains itself. *Every once in a while it will overflow in the shower
and not drain at all, like yesterday. *I ran a 25 foot snake down the drain
and it now acts as it always has.

I'd like for the washing machine not have water come up the shower drain.
Is it just a clog in the drain or is there something else, like poor design,
in play here?

TIA for any ideas.

BR

I ran a 25 foot snake down the drain and it now acts as it always
has.

Please explain "now it acts like it always has".

I can't tell from your post if "acts like it always has" means it's
now just backing up into the shower a little bit or now it's draining
completely with no back up. In other words, has this set-up *ever*
worked properly, or has it always backed up into the shower?

After running the snake, the shower still backs up and then eventually
drains. It has always acted in this manner.

Thanks.

BR

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 10:30 am, "Big Bubba" wrote:
I have a washing machine and a shower in my basement. They are separated
by
a wall. When the washing machine drains the water comes up the shower
drain. Most of the time it doesn't overflow and after a few minutes the
shower drains itself. Every once in a while it will overflow in the shower
and not drain at all, like yesterday. I ran a 25 foot snake down the drain
and it now acts as it always has.

I'd like for the washing machine not have water come up the shower drain.
Is it just a clog in the drain or is there something else, like poor
design,
in play here?

TIA for any ideas.

BR

I ran a 25 foot snake down the drain and it now acts as it always
has.

Please explain "now it acts like it always has".

I can't tell from your post if "acts like it always has" means it's
now just backing up into the shower a little bit or now it's draining
completely with no back up. In other words, has this set-up *ever*
worked properly, or has it always backed up into the shower?

Big Bubba wrote:
I have a washing machine and a shower in my basement. They are
separated by a wall. When the washing machine drains the water comes
up the shower drain. Most of the time it doesn't overflow and after
a few minutes the shower drains itself. Every once in a while it
will overflow in the shower and not drain at all, like yesterday. I
ran a 25 foot snake down the drain and it now acts as it always has.

I'd like for the washing machine not have water come up the shower
drain. Is it just a clog in the drain or is there something else,
like poor design, in play here?

TIA for any ideas.


Obviously the washing machine is dumping water faster than the drain can
process it. Possibilities seem to be:

* Turbo motor on the washing machine pump
* Semi-blocked drain line
* Drain line too small

Since the only one you have any control over is possible blockage, do what
you can in that area (chemicals, hot water, scouring, etc.).

Plumbing contractors can insert a video camera in the drain and inspect its
whole length - you may have a root infestation or a collapsed pipe.

I really don't know. We do have a sump pump, but it only kicks in when it
rains. The basement is below ground level, although we are on top of a
small hill.

Thanks.

BR

"Van Chocstraw" wrote in message
...
Big Bubba wrote:
I have a washing machine and a shower in my basement. They are separated
by a wall. When the washing machine drains the water comes up the shower
drain. Most of the time it doesn't overflow and after a few minutes the
shower drains itself. Every once in a while it will overflow in the
shower and not drain at all, like yesterday. I ran a 25 foot snake down
the drain and it now acts as it always has.

I'd like for the washing machine not have water come up the shower drain.
Is it just a clog in the drain or is there something else, like poor
design, in play here?

TIA for any ideas.

BR

How does the shower drain get up to the sewer line? A sump pump? or is the
basement level above the sewer drain? Draw me a picture.



--
//--------------------\\
Van Chocstraw
\\--------------------//

On Dec 29, 9:30*am, "Big Bubba" wrote:
I have a washing machine and a shower in my basement. *They are separated by
a wall. *When the washing machine drains the water comes up the shower
drain. *Most of the time it doesn't overflow and after a few minutes the
shower drains itself. *Every once in a while it will overflow in the shower
and not drain at all, like yesterday. *I ran a 25 foot snake down the drain
and it now acts as it always has.

I'd like for the washing machine not have water come up the shower drain.
Is it just a clog in the drain or is there something else, like poor design,
in play here?

TIA for any ideas.

BR

I;d put my money on poor venting. Maybe no venting from a previous DIY
project.

Joe

This is an old house, built in 1916. The previous owner put a lot of poor
work into the house. The plumbing ain't great, but the electrical work is
even worse.

Do you know of any resolution for this problem, assuming it is venting?

Thanks.

BR
"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Dec 29, 9:30 am, "Big Bubba" wrote:
I have a washing machine and a shower in my basement. They are separated
by
a wall. When the washing machine drains the water comes up the shower
drain. Most of the time it doesn't overflow and after a few minutes the
shower drains itself. Every once in a while it will overflow in the shower
and not drain at all, like yesterday. I ran a 25 foot snake down the drain
and it now acts as it always has.

I'd like for the washing machine not have water come up the shower drain.
Is it just a clog in the drain or is there something else, like poor
design,
in play here?

TIA for any ideas.

BR

I;d put my money on poor venting. Maybe no venting from a previous DIY
project.

Joe

On Dec 29, 12:08*pm, Joe wrote:
On Dec 29, 9:30*am, "Big Bubba" wrote:

I have a washing machine and a shower in my basement. *They are separated by
a wall. *When the washing machine drains the water comes up the shower
drain. *Most of the time it doesn't overflow and after a few minutes the
shower drains itself. *Every once in a while it will overflow in the shower
and not drain at all, like yesterday. *I ran a 25 foot snake down the drain
and it now acts as it always has.

I'd like for the washing machine not have water come up the shower drain.

I'm not arguing...I'm just curious...

How would venting - or lack thereof - cause this problem?

Try this.. Take a liter pop bottle and fill with water. Hold it upside down
and note how fast the water drains. Next, fill it again, cap it, turn it
upside down and drill some air holes in the highest point. Uncap it and
notice how much faster it drains with the vent holes.

This applies to plumbing as well. I have the same problem with my washer and
sink. The washer forces alot a water under pressure in the unvented drain
line and it backs up into the sink due to slow draining.

On Dec 29, 5:36*pm, "JohnR66" wrote:
I'm not arguing...I'm just curious...

How would venting - or lack thereof - cause this problem?

Try this.. Take a liter pop bottle and fill with water. Hold it upside down
and note *how fast the water drains. Next, fill it again, cap it, turn it
upside down and drill some air holes in the highest point. Uncap it and
notice how much faster it drains with the vent holes.

This applies to plumbing as well. I have the same problem with my washer and
sink. The washer forces alot a water under pressure in the unvented drain
line and it backs up into the sink due to slow draining.

He already has a vent, the basement shower opening.

Big Bubba wrote:
This is an old house, built in 1916. The previous owner put a lot of
poor work into the house. The plumbing ain't great, but the
electrical work is even worse.

Do you know of any resolution for this problem, assuming it is
venting?

Put in a vent?

On Dec 29, 10:03*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Dec 29, 5:36*pm, "JohnR66" wrote:

I'm not arguing...I'm just curious...

How would venting - or lack thereof - cause this problem?

Try this.. Take a liter pop bottle and fill with water. Hold it upside down
and note *how fast the water drains. Next, fill it again, cap it, turn it
upside down and drill some air holes in the highest point. Uncap it and
notice how much faster it drains with the vent holes.

This applies to plumbing as well. I have the same problem with my washer and
sink. The washer forces alot a water under pressure in the unvented drain
line and it backs up into the sink due to slow draining.

He already has a vent, the basement shower opening.

"He already has a vent, the basement shower opening"

Wouldn't the shower opening only become a vent if the water was sucked
out of the trap?

It sounds like the opposite is happening - water is entering the trap
from the discharge side keeping the trap full at all times.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:36:06 +0000, JohnR66 wrote:



Try this.. Take a liter pop bottle and fill with water. Hold it upside
down and note how fast the water drains. Next, fill it again, cap it,
turn it upside down and drill some air holes in the highest point. Uncap
it and notice how much faster it drains with the vent holes.

This applies to plumbing as well. I have the same problem with my washer
and sink. The washer forces alot a water under pressure in the unvented
drain line and it backs up into the sink due to slow draining.

I just read some Web sites that try to explain the plumbing sewer line
venting (just Google, and there are a lot of hits.)

The information I got was the new vent would comes after the 'P' or 'J'
trap on the OP's basement shower drain, which from Big Bubba's
description this trap most likely is under, or in, the basement slab.
And then the vent stack must be installed to go all the way to the roof
of the house and extend a foot or more above the roof.

Just how expensive would it get to cut the basement concrete to find the
drain line, cut the holes in the floors and ceiling to insert the vent
stack, cut thru the roof, water proof the roof, fix the basement floor,
install some sort of drywall around the new stack above the basement,
paint the drywall until Mrs. Bubba is satisfied the old and new drywall
are color-painted matched, and so on. (when you cut the whole for the
stack in the ceiling of the room above the basement, you are on your own
about the drywall dust and staining the carpet with respect to Mrs Bubba.)

I mean couldn't this get kind of expensive in today's economy? For just
to stop a few gallons of water from bubbling up in a basement shower
drain? Well who knows, maybe Big Bubba is working a massive amount of
Overtime at work, or won the Lottery.

On Dec 30, 10:02*am, Phil Again wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:36:06 +0000, JohnR66 wrote:

Try this.. Take a liter pop bottle and fill with water. Hold it upside
down and note *how fast the water drains. Next, fill it again, cap it,
turn it upside down and drill some air holes in the highest point. Uncap
it and notice how much faster it drains with the vent holes.

This applies to plumbing as well. I have the same problem with my washer
and sink. The washer forces alot a water under pressure in the unvented
drain line and it backs up into the sink due to slow draining.

I just read some Web sites that try to explain the plumbing sewer line
venting (just Google, and there are a lot of hits.)

The information I got was the new vent would comes after the 'P' or 'J'
trap on the OP's basement shower drain, which from Big Bubba's
description this trap most likely is under, or in, the basement slab. *
And then the vent stack must be installed to go all the way to the roof
of the house and extend a foot or more above the roof. *

Just how expensive would it get to cut the basement concrete to find the
drain line, cut the holes in the floors and ceiling to insert the vent
stack, cut thru the roof, water proof the roof, fix the basement floor,
install some sort of drywall around the new stack above the basement,
paint the drywall until Mrs. Bubba is satisfied the old and new drywall
are color-painted matched, and so on. (when you cut the whole for the
stack in the ceiling of the room above the basement, you are on your own
about the drywall dust and staining the carpet with respect to Mrs Bubba.)

I mean couldn't this get kind of expensive in today's economy? *For just
to stop a few gallons of water from bubbling up in a basement shower
drain? *Well who knows, maybe Big Bubba is working a massive amount of
Overtime at work, or won the Lottery.

Perhaps your Google search missed this type of product:

http://www.oatey.com/Channel/Shared/...Line_Vent.html

hr(bob) wrote:

On Dec 29, 5:36 pm, "JohnR66" wrote:

I'm not arguing...I'm just curious...

How would venting - or lack thereof - cause this problem?

Try this.. Take a liter pop bottle and fill with water. Hold it upside down
and note how fast the water drains. Next, fill it again, cap it, turn it
upside down and drill some air holes in the highest point. Uncap it and
notice how much faster it drains with the vent holes.

This applies to plumbing as well. I have the same problem with my washer and
sink. The washer forces alot a water under pressure in the unvented drain
line and it backs up into the sink due to slow draining.


He already has a vent, the basement shower opening.

I agree....

AFAIK the purpose of venting is to "break the vacuum" which can suck a
trap dry, leaving a path open for sewer gases to enter the property.

I think his problem is just a "slow" drain which can't handle the full
flow from the washer.

He might try this simple solution:

Take a small woodworker's clamp and put it on the washer drain hose,
squeezing it down enough to restrict the discharge flow rate until water
stops backing up into the shower. It will take a bit longer to drain the
washer, but shouldn't damage anything.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

On Dec 30, 11:16*am, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:
On Dec 29, 5:36 pm, "JohnR66" wrote:

I'm not arguing...I'm just curious...

How would venting - or lack thereof - cause this problem?

Try this.. Take a liter pop bottle and fill with water. Hold it upside down
and note *how fast the water drains. Next, fill it again, cap it, turn it
upside down and drill some air holes in the highest point. Uncap it and
notice how much faster it drains with the vent holes.

This applies to plumbing as well. I have the same problem with my washer and
sink. The washer forces alot a water under pressure in the unvented drain
line and it backs up into the sink due to slow draining.

He already has a vent, the basement shower opening.

I agree....

AFAIK the purpose of venting is to "break the vacuum" which can suck a
trap dry, leaving a path open for sewer gases to enter the property.

I think his problem is just a "slow" drain which can't handle the full
flow from the washer.

He might try this simple solution:

Take a small woodworker's clamp and put it on the washer drain hose,
squeezing it down enough to restrict the discharge flow rate until water
stops backing up into the shower. It will take a bit longer to drain the
washer, but shouldn't damage anything.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

restrict the discharge flow rate until water stops backing up into
the shower

Might work...might not.

My washer drains into the utility tub. I use one of these to catch the
lint:

http://www.agindustrialsupply.com//(...x?sku=10603639

If it gets too clogged it causes back-pressure and the machine doesn't
pump the water out. I think it's a "protection mechanism" so the pump
doesn't burn itself out.

If he clamps the hose too much, the washer might not drain at all.

DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 30, 11:16 am, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

hr(bob) wrote:

On Dec 29, 5:36 pm, "JohnR66" wrote:

I'm not arguing...I'm just curious...

How would venting - or lack thereof - cause this problem?

Try this.. Take a liter pop bottle and fill with water. Hold it upside down
and note how fast the water drains. Next, fill it again, cap it, turn it
upside down and drill some air holes in the highest point. Uncap it and
notice how much faster it drains with the vent holes.

This applies to plumbing as well. I have the same problem with my washer and
sink. The washer forces alot a water under pressure in the unvented drain
line and it backs up into the sink due to slow draining.

He already has a vent, the basement shower opening.

I agree....

AFAIK the purpose of venting is to "break the vacuum" which can suck a
trap dry, leaving a path open for sewer gases to enter the property.

I think his problem is just a "slow" drain which can't handle the full
flow from the washer.

He might try this simple solution:

Take a small woodworker's clamp and put it on the washer drain hose,
squeezing it down enough to restrict the discharge flow rate until water
stops backing up into the shower. It will take a bit longer to drain the
washer, but shouldn't damage anything.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


restrict the discharge flow rate until water stops backing up into
the shower

Might work...might not.

My washer drains into the utility tub. I use one of these to catch the
lint:

http://www.agindustrialsupply.com//(...x?sku=10603639

Or:

http://tinyurl.com/9behve

Boy, those sure look like Vatican approved condums, don't they?


If it gets too clogged it causes back-pressure and the machine doesn't
pump the water out. I think it's a "protection mechanism" so the pump
doesn't burn itself out.

If he clamps the hose too much, the washer might not drain at all.

Could be, I've only used that trick once myself years ago and it worked
for me. The washing machines then probably wern't as smart about things
like drain backpressure as they have become lately.

Jeff


--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 10:30:34 -0500, "Big Bubba"
wrote:

I have a washing machine and a shower in my basement. They are separated by
a wall. When the washing machine drains the water comes up the shower
drain. Most of the time it doesn't overflow and after a few minutes the
shower drains itself. Every once in a while it will overflow in the shower
and not drain at all, like yesterday. I ran a 25 foot snake down the drain
and it now acts as it always has.

I'd like for the washing machine not have water come up the shower drain.
Is it just a clog in the drain or is there something else, like poor design,
in play here?

TIA for any ideas.

BR


You may have a clogged vent. If the vent is more than 5 feet away
from the trap, you may need a revent.

On Dec 30, 5:25*pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:16 am, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

hr(bob) wrote:

On Dec 29, 5:36 pm, "JohnR66" wrote:

I'm not arguing...I'm just curious...

How would venting - or lack thereof - cause this problem?

Try this.. Take a liter pop bottle and fill with water. Hold it upside down
and note *how fast the water drains. Next, fill it again, cap it, turn it
upside down and drill some air holes in the highest point. Uncap it and
notice how much faster it drains with the vent holes.

This applies to plumbing as well. I have the same problem with my washer and
sink. The washer forces alot a water under pressure in the unvented drain
line and it backs up into the sink due to slow draining.

He already has a vent, the basement shower opening.

I agree....

AFAIK the purpose of venting is to "break the vacuum" which can suck a
trap dry, leaving a path open for sewer gases to enter the property.

I think his problem is just a "slow" drain which can't handle the full
flow from the washer.

He might try this simple solution:

Take a small woodworker's clamp and put it on the washer drain hose,
squeezing it down enough to restrict the discharge flow rate until water
stops backing up into the shower. It will take a bit longer to drain the
washer, but shouldn't damage anything.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

restrict the discharge flow rate until water stops backing up into
the shower

Might work...might not.

My washer drains into the utility tub. I use one of these to catch the
lint:

http://www.agindustrialsupply.com//(...jucaaug))/prod...

Or:

http://tinyurl.com/9behve

Boy, those sure look like Vatican approved condums, don't they?



If it gets too clogged it causes back-pressure and the machine doesn't
pump the water out. I think it's a "protection mechanism" so the pump
doesn't burn itself out.

If he clamps the hose too much, the washer might not drain at all.

Could be, I've only used that trick once myself years ago and it worked
for me. The washing machines then probably wern't as smart about things
like drain backpressure as they have become lately.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sometimes I think they're too smart.

I on my way out into the snow to pick up a $3.83 piece of plastic so
my washer will know that the door is closed.