.... for anything except hanging drywall.*

It's really irritating to see how just about every screw I see driven
into the various houses I work on seem to be those damned ubiquitous
drywall screws. Doesn't matter whether it's a shelf bracket, a piece of
trim or an electrical fixture. Sure, they're cheap and easy to drive and
everyone has bagsfull of them, but you know what? They ain't the right
fastener for about 75% of the things they're used for.

Thing is, they're made of hardened steel, which you'd think would make
them better. This does make them easier to drive into wood without
drilling a pilot hole first (gee whiz, who has time for *that*?). But
the problem is that means they're much more brittle than ordinary wood
(or sheet-metal) screws of the same size, which means they're much more
likely to fail under stress. (Anyone who's ever snapped off the head of
one of them because of overtightening knows this.)

So I'm going to start stocking up on a bunch of sizes of wood screws and
start using them. Next, I might tackle that problem: I read, some time
ago in /Fine Woodworking/, I think, that the best screws to use in wood
are actually ... sheet-metal screws, which have bigger threads in
relation to screw size that hold better in wood. Have to do some
research on that.


* Exceptions for other applications which this type of screw is made
for, such as fastening deck boards, etc.


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire

David Nebenzahl wrote:

... for anything except hanging drywall.*

It's really irritating to see how just about every screw I see driven
into the various houses I work on seem to be those damned ubiquitous
drywall screws. Doesn't matter whether it's a shelf bracket, a piece of
trim or an electrical fixture. Sure, they're cheap and easy to drive and
everyone has bagsfull of them, but you know what? They ain't the right
fastener for about 75% of the things they're used for.

Thing is, they're made of hardened steel, which you'd think would make
them better. This does make them easier to drive into wood without
drilling a pilot hole first (gee whiz, who has time for *that*?). But
the problem is that means they're much more brittle than ordinary wood
(or sheet-metal) screws of the same size, which means they're much more
likely to fail under stress. (Anyone who's ever snapped off the head of
one of them because of overtightening knows this.)

So I'm going to start stocking up on a bunch of sizes of wood screws and
start using them. Next, I might tackle that problem: I read, some time
ago in /Fine Woodworking/, I think, that the best screws to use in wood
are actually ... sheet-metal screws, which have bigger threads in
relation to screw size that hold better in wood. Have to do some
research on that.

* Exceptions for other applications which this type of screw is made
for, such as fastening deck boards, etc.

--

I use Drywall screws for Drywall, and use the DeckMate screws for more
general purpose use. The DeckMate screws are thicker shank, coated and
much stronger. I generally drive them with a Makita impact driver. Your
noted exception doesn't exist, as deck screws are significantly
different from drywall screws.

... for anything except hanging drywall.*

It's really irritating to see how just about every screw I see driven
into the various houses I work on seem to be those damned ubiquitous
drywall screws. Doesn't matter whether it's a shelf bracket, a piece
of trim or an electrical fixture. Sure, they're cheap and easy to
drive and everyone has bagsfull of them, but you know what? They
ain't the right fastener for about 75% of the things they're used for.

Thing is, they're made of hardened steel, which you'd think would make
them better. This does make them easier to drive into wood without
drilling a pilot hole first (gee whiz, who has time for *that*?). But
the problem is that means they're much more brittle than ordinary wood
(or sheet-metal) screws of the same size, which means they're much
more likely to fail under stress. (Anyone who's ever snapped off the
head of one of them because of overtightening knows this.)

So I'm going to start stocking up on a bunch of sizes of wood screws
and start using them. Next, I might tackle that problem: I read, some
time ago in /Fine Woodworking/, I think, that the best screws to use
in wood are actually ... sheet-metal screws, which have bigger
threads in relation to screw size that hold better in wood. Have to
do some research on that.


* Exceptions for other applications which this type of screw is made
for, such as fastening deck boards, etc.

Each to his own, and your opinion is reasonable enough. For me, it's
more the type of head on a screw than anything else. I'll go for
anything from a Phillips to ... excepting security screws and especially
straight slot screws. I do use drywall screws, or the coated kind for
decks though, whenever the screw head will be hidden and the environment
not one to provide rusting.
As for twisting off a screwhead, I'm not so sure it has to be a
drywall screw; you can do that to any screw whether they bend/twist
first and the head comes off, or it just snaps off without warning.
Whevever I hit a situation like that I'm either using the wrong screw or
it's hit something unexpected like a knot, meaning to stop and find
another location nearby. The clutches on today's drill drivers are
great for avoiding twisting off a screw head too, I've found. I set
them high unless I'm doing something where it really matters, but not
OFF.
Actually, now I think about it, in my experience, I'd rather have a
drywall head snapped off than a softer metal twisted off; the drywall
screws break below the surface usually where the others leave a small
piece still sticking out. Oh well, can't have it all, huh?

As for sheet metal screws vs finer threads, that depends on the type of
wood and how the screw is going through the grain. If the wood is prone
to splitting they'll split it faster that one with a finer threaed,
assuming each has the right size pilot holes. For most common woods,
drywall screws are good too because yo dn't need to provide pilot holes
or clearance holes. The threads stop at the right place to become a
"slip" for the piece on top and they clamp things together good and
tight. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, I suppose. For finer
work I'd never use any but the proper screw types.

My 1¢ worth, I guess. Everyone's mmv, I'm sure.

Twayne


Twayne

"David Nebenzahl" wrote:
... for anything except hanging drywall.*

It's really irritating to see how just about every screw I see driven into
the various houses I work on seem to be those damned ubiquitous drywall
screws. Doesn't matter whether it's a shelf bracket, a piece of trim or an
electrical fixture. Sure, they're cheap and easy to drive and everyone has
bagsfull of them, but you know what? They ain't the right fastener for
about 75% of the things they're used for.

Thing is, they're made of hardened steel, which you'd think would make
them better. This does make them easier to drive into wood without
drilling a pilot hole first (gee whiz, who has time for *that*?). But the
problem is that means they're much more brittle than ordinary wood (or
sheet-metal) screws of the same size, which means they're much more likely
to fail under stress. (Anyone who's ever snapped off the head of one of
them because of overtightening knows this.)

So I'm going to start stocking up on a bunch of sizes of wood screws and
start using them. Next, I might tackle that problem: I read, some time ago
in /Fine Woodworking/, I think, that the best screws to use in wood are
actually ... sheet-metal screws, which have bigger threads in relation to
screw size that hold better in wood. Have to do some research on that.

I couldn't do without my "improper" drywall screws. I use 'em for anything
and everything I can get away with using them for, most especially with
temporary setups, jigs, and the like. Dimensional lumber and plywood are
made for them.

If one screw isn't strong enough, I'll just use two or three then. They
work great.

ALL HAIL THE ALMIGHTY DRYWALL SCREW! SAVIOR TO OUR PROJECTS GREAT AND
SMALL!

Jon

David Nebenzahl wrote in
.com:

... for anything except hanging drywall.*

It's really irritating to see how just about every screw I see driven
into the various houses I work on seem to be those damned ubiquitous
drywall screws. Doesn't matter whether it's a shelf bracket, a piece
of trim or an electrical fixture. Sure, they're cheap and easy to
drive and everyone has bagsfull of them, but you know what? They ain't
the right fastener for about 75% of the things they're used for.

True.
I'm guilty 75% of the time


Thing is, they're made of hardened steel, which you'd think would make
them better. This does make them easier to drive into wood without
drilling a pilot hole first (gee whiz, who has time for *that*?). But
the problem is that means they're much more brittle than ordinary wood
(or sheet-metal) screws of the same size, which means they're much
more likely to fail under stress.

Oh yea. There are places I'd never use them. Exterior apps (unless
galv), floors, underlayments, truss/flooring sistering, anywhere natural
movement is probable to name a few.

(Anyone who's ever snapped off the head of
one of them because of overtightening knows this.)

So I'm going to start stocking up on a bunch of sizes of wood screws
and start using them. Next, I might tackle that problem: I read, some
time ago in /Fine Woodworking/, I think, that the best screws to use
in wood are actually ... sheet-metal screws, which have bigger threads
in relation to screw size that hold better in wood. Have to do some
research on that.


* Exceptions for other applications which this type of screw is made
for, such as fastening deck boards, etc.



That sad thing is how damn thin they have become. No wonder they snap so
easily. I pulled some 2"ers out of some 20 yr old countertops just a bit
back. I'd say a good 1/3rd or better beefier. And the necks just below
the head don't look like old manifold bolts.

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
... for anything except hanging drywall.*

It's really irritating to see how just about every screw I see driven into
the various houses I work on seem to be those damned ubiquitous drywall
screws. Doesn't matter whether it's a shelf bracket, a piece of trim or an
electrical fixture. Sure, they're cheap and easy to drive and everyone has
bagsfull of them, but you know what? They ain't the right fastener for
about 75% of the things they're used for.

Thing is, they're made of hardened steel, which you'd think would make
them better. This does make them easier to drive into wood without
drilling a pilot hole first (gee whiz, who has time for *that*?). But the
problem is that means they're much more brittle than ordinary wood (or
sheet-metal) screws of the same size, which means they're much more likely
to fail under stress. (Anyone who's ever snapped off the head of one of
them because of overtightening knows this.)

So I'm going to start stocking up on a bunch of sizes of wood screws and
start using them. Next, I might tackle that problem: I read, some time ago
in /Fine Woodworking/, I think, that the best screws to use in wood are
actually ... sheet-metal screws, which have bigger threads in relation to
screw size that hold better in wood. Have to do some research on that.


* Exceptions for other applications which this type of screw is made for,
such as fastening deck boards, etc.

I'll take a pass on giving my opinion, but will say that I toss EVERY
slotted-head screw I see or find. I would defy anyone finding ONE on my
premises!

On Dec 24, 9:58*pm, "1D10T" wrote:


I'll take a pass on giving my opinion, but will say that I toss EVERY
slotted-head screw I see or find. I would defy anyone finding ONE on my
premises.

The only type I buy anymore have the combination phillips/sq. drive
heads, and usually use a square drive bit to drive them.

David Nebenzahl wrote in
.com:

... for anything except hanging drywall.*

It's really irritating to see how just about every screw I see driven
into the various houses I work on seem to be those damned ubiquitous
drywall screws. Doesn't matter whether it's a shelf bracket, a piece
of trim or an electrical fixture. Sure, they're cheap

Oh and BTW, cheap? Not any more. Haven't found them bulk around here so
it's lb boxes at the Borg. When gas went to $4+/gal they jacked them up
to 5.94/box (higher shipping costs). Yes, f'n non-galv drywall screws!!
Now the Borg touts "New lower price" of like 5.50. They were like 4.30
when gas was around $3. So now gas is half that. Why isn't the "new
lower price" like a 1.60 in the opposite direction making it 2.70? Well
we all know the answer to that. There are big signs on our backs, "I am
the American public. Put the ****s to me.".

and easy to drive and
everyone has bagsfull of them, but you know what? They ain't the right
fastener for about 75% of the things they're used for.

Thing is, they're made of hardened steel, which you'd think would make
them better. This does make them easier to drive into wood without
drilling a pilot hole first (gee whiz, who has time for *that*?). But
the problem is that means they're much more brittle than ordinary wood
(or sheet-metal) screws of the same size, which means they're much
more likely to fail under stress. (Anyone who's ever snapped off the
head of one of them because of overtightening knows this.)

So I'm going to start stocking up on a bunch of sizes of wood screws
and start using them. Next, I might tackle that problem: I read, some
time ago in /Fine Woodworking/, I think, that the best screws to use
in wood are actually ... sheet-metal screws, which have bigger threads
in relation to screw size that hold better in wood. Have to do some
research on that.


* Exceptions for other applications which this type of screw is made
for, such as fastening deck boards, etc.

Red Green wrote:

Oh and BTW, cheap? Not any more. Haven't found them bulk around here
so it's lb boxes at the Borg. When gas went to $4+/gal they jacked
them up to 5.94/box (higher shipping costs). Yes, f'n non-galv
drywall screws!! Now the Borg touts "New lower price" of like 5.50.
They were like 4.30 when gas was around $3. So now gas is half that.
Why isn't the "new lower price" like a 1.60 in the opposite direction
making it 2.70? Well we all know the answer to that. There are big
signs on our backs, "I am the American public. Put the ****s to me.".


1. Rocket up, feather down.

2. A vendor, in general, should give people the opportunity to pay the
maximum they're willing to pay.

On Dec 24, 4:55*pm, "Pete C." wrote:

I use Drywall screws for Drywall, and use the DeckMate screws for more
general purpose use. The DeckMate screws are thicker shank, coated and
much stronger. I generally drive them with a Makita impact driver. Your
noted exception doesn't exist, as deck screws are significantly
different from drywall screws.

Nice to see there's another Makita ID fan in this NG. I am amazed at
how many DIY folks posting here are struggling with problems that
could be solved using the tool. Prices are finally getting more
reasonable now, so that may change in the near future. Think Torx
drive and Merry Christmas!

Joe

In article ,
1D10T wrote:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
... for anything except hanging drywall.*

It's really irritating to see how just about every screw I see driven into
the various houses I work on seem to be those damned ubiquitous drywall
screws. Doesn't matter whether it's a shelf bracket, a piece of trim or an
electrical fixture. Sure, they're cheap and easy to drive and everyone has
bagsfull of them, but you know what? They ain't the right fastener for
about 75% of the things they're used for.

Thing is, they're made of hardened steel, which you'd think would make
them better. This does make them easier to drive into wood without
drilling a pilot hole first (gee whiz, who has time for *that*?). But the
problem is that means they're much more brittle than ordinary wood (or
sheet-metal) screws of the same size, which means they're much more likely
to fail under stress. (Anyone who's ever snapped off the head of one of
them because of overtightening knows this.)

So I'm going to start stocking up on a bunch of sizes of wood screws and
start using them. Next, I might tackle that problem: I read, some time ago
in /Fine Woodworking/, I think, that the best screws to use in wood are
actually ... sheet-metal screws, which have bigger threads in relation to
screw size that hold better in wood. Have to do some research on that.


* Exceptions for other applications which this type of screw is made for,
such as fastening deck boards, etc.

I'll take a pass on giving my opinion, but will say that I toss EVERY
slotted-head screw I see or find. I would defy anyone finding ONE on my
premises!



OK, I'll bite. What's wrong with slot-headed screws -- the kind
you use a plain old "blade" screwdriver for.

Thanks!

David

(David Combs) wrote in
:

OK, I'll bite. What's wrong with slot-headed screws -- the kind
you use a plain old "blade" screwdriver for.

Thanks!

David




using a power driver like a cordless drill/driver doesn't work very well
with slotted screws.
square drive,PosiDrive and TorX are designed for power driving,Phillips
works OK(with a slight bit of camout).

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"David Combs" wrote in message
OK, I'll bite. What's wrong with slot-headed screws -- the kind
you use a plain old "blade" screwdriver for.


Nothing wrong with them, but other types can be screwed in easier,
especially with power tools. Slot heads are more prone to slipping,
stripping. and allowing the nearby surface to be marred. The screw itself
holds as well as any other type. I prefer the square drive myself. Less
cam out and can be started with one hand if needed.

wrote in message
...
On 22 Jan 2009 01:37:58 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:



So you're too lazy to use a plain old hand operated screwdriver?
I'm old enough to remember when all screws had to be out in with a
common screwdriver, and nails were put in with a hammer, not a
nailgun. And guess what, I still do it that way, except for things
like drywall screws, used ONLY for drywall. I wont even own a
nailgun. Not only are they dangerous but lugging an air compressor
around is much more work than simply pounding in a nail with a hammer.


I think it would kind of depend on how many nails you need to drive. As an
example if you were putting on a roof, a nail gun is the only way to go.

As far as driving screws are concerned, using power is quite often
preferable to using a screw driver especially when you are dealing with long
screws.

Also they make some really good wood screws for construction that while at
first glance appear to be drywall screws, the body is considerably thicker
and the metalurgy is such as they are an appropriate fastener choice for
structural strength.



--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.