On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:54:05 -0500, "Twayne"
wrote:

I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

Wow; a lot of responses, some good, some well, not so.

Basically IMO it depends on what you need and how long an outage you
want to plan for.
As long as it's only a little light, the radio & maybe small TV, you
would be fine with 12V devices. If you need to continue life as though
the power weren't out, neither solutio would help unless it was a good
sized genset.

If you have to provide heat (freezing weather or colder) or air
conditioning, use anything that draws substantial current (any large
item; refrigerator, freezer full of meat, microwave, toaster, lots of
lights and gosh knows what, you should work out the wattage you need by
adding those all up according to what's on the nameplates, and get a
generator of at least that much capability, which may top 3,000 watts
worse case.
In a way, living alone adds additional btu requirements since there
aren't others there to contribute body heat either.

IMO if you don't have to worry about refrigerators, freezers, furnaces,
air conditioners, you'd be fine with batteries; just check how long they
last at the loads you'll place on them and go from there.
Oh, and if you have well water, you'd have something else to power,
too.

We have a 5,000 Wat generator and it will run our well pump, fridge and
freezer and a few lights all at once. But usually we kill the
regrigerator/freezer to run the well pump just to keep the generator
from being overly taxed; everything on makes it work really hard should
they all demand power at the same time.
There's a transfer switch: Start the genset and flick the switch, and
it turns on the house power thru its own set of breakers. So be sure to
add a Transfer Switch to the cost if you fo the generator route.
They're arond $100 plus installation which you'd need permission from
the owner to do.
In the overall, batteriy power it best if it can give you enough to
do the things you need to do for as long as the longest period of time
you think you'll need it.
Hmm, maybe a battery system and a small genset to charge the battery
system if it's needed? Nothing to install that way; just plug the
battery chargers nto the genset when you need to charge it. No transwer
switch, no installation.

HTH

Twayne


Or do what I've done. I have an old 2500 watt Onan and I have the
furnace set up that I can plug it in to either the mains or an
extension cord from the generator. I run a 14 gauge cord from the
generator (out in the shed) into the house and plug the furnace in to
get the house warm, along with a couple of lamps. Then I disconnect
the furnace and run the fridge for a while if necessary. I can plug in
whatever I need to run when I need it, and in that way I can limit my
loads to 2500 watts. Obviously the kitchen range and the drier cannot
be used.
My hot water heater is gas, as is the furnace.

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

Walmart now has closet lights that take D cells, and also camping
fluorescent lights that take D cells. Both are good light for summer
hurricanes. The 12 volt fans from the PC, a very good idea.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

I havn't tried a fridge on 1000 watts. Might work, never know.

Startup draw may be too much for a 1KW generator.

For
power cuts in the winter, fuel based light is good, as it produces
heat.

And odorless,colorless,poinsonous CO gas.
In a winter situation,indoor use is not a good idea.

Candles, oil lamps, camping mantle lanterns, and so on. 1000
watts will run most furnaces for heat. But not for AC. Food outside in
the cold is good idea.

Use snow in a insulated cooler.don't just leave food outside to keep
cold;sunlight will heat it up.


one more thing to consider is carbon monoxide poisoning.You need a CO alarm
in your apartment,if you're going to be using a generator near it.

I used a 12V/20AH gel cell to power flourescent lights for 7 days back in
2004 after Hurricane Charley,but that was August and 90 degF temps.
I powered a 12V flourescent like they sell for closets,powered by 8 AA
cells,but has a jack for external power,I had made up a cable well before
the outage.I also powered a pair of 12V fans salvaged from PC power
supplies to keep a breeze going over me at night,so I could sleep in the
90degF heat.

You can charge them from your car's system,and get a 12V cellphone
charger,too.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

I think the jumper pack sounds excellent for cold light. Fans from computer
power supply is also good. I have a couple of those little fans, I ought to
see about wiring them up.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...

I used a 12V/20AH gel cell to power flourescent lights for 7 days back in
2004 after Hurricane Charley,but that was August and 90 degF temps.
I powered a 12V flourescent like they sell for closets,powered by 8 AA
cells,but has a jack for external power,I had made up a cable well before
the outage.I also powered a pair of 12V fans salvaged from PC power
supplies to keep a breeze going over me at night,so I could sleep in the
90degF heat.

You can charge them from your car's system,and get a 12V cellphone
charger,too.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Dec 20, 4:28*pm, wrote:
Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

The generator is easily refuelable, and you already have 120 Volt
devices.

If the power outage outlasts the batteries, you're screwed. Plus, you
have to purchase all the 12 Volt devices and store them.

A 1000 Watt Honda is about the same size and weight as one golf cart
battery, and storage is as easy as draining the gas tank and throwing
it in a closet. You'll need several golf cart batteries to power 12V
devices for several days, and a way to charge and maintain them for
the 99.9% of the time you aren't using them.

The only way 12V would be practical is if you lived in an RV, but then
you wouldn't be asking that question.

On Dec 20, 8:22*pm, wrote:
Well Id need to keep warm..... I guess that "could" be
a electric heater rather than trying to power gas
furnace... but then the amp draw would be tremendous.
Yes?

Yes. Run the furnace. A gas furnace produces heat by burning natural
gas. The only thing that requires electricity is the sparker to light
the flame (negligible), and the blower (usually a small 1/3-1/2HP
motor).

And would need 'some" light..... ability run small
microwave to cook with

Forget the microwave. I have a Honda 1000 and a SMALL microwave.
Startup current is over 1000W even on a small microwave. The Honda
will run my window unit AC, though.

Have you got a gas cooktop/oven in your apartment? All those require
is a tiny amount of electricity to run the sparker and hold the safety
shutoff valve open.

These people that say you can't run anything off a 1000W generator
have no clue about electricity. Few if any of your true "critical"
systems at home require more than a few hundred Watts. It's when you
try to run them all simultaneously that you run into trouble.

On Dec 20, 10:22*pm, wrote:
If you use batteries, use "starved electrolyte" or "AGM" batteries. No
gassing. Optima YellowTops are a good reasonable solution - or go with
Hawker Genesis EPs if your budget stretches that far (they are PRICEY,
but excellent batteries)

Optima batteries are GARBAGE. Everyone I know who's tried them has
been sadly disappointed with their performance.

Those so-called "deep cycle" batteries are also GARBAGE. They don't
last.

The only lead-acid batteries that are any good these days are true
golf cart batteries.

On Dec 22, 12:45�pm, wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:22�pm, wrote:

If you use batteries, use "starved electrolyte" or "AGM" batteries. No
gassing. Optima YellowTops are a good reasonable solution - or go with
Hawker Genesis EPs if your budget stretches that far (they are PRICEY,
but excellent batteries)

Optima batteries are GARBAGE. Everyone I know who's tried them has
been sadly disappointed with their performance.

Those so-called "deep cycle" batteries are also GARBAGE. They don't
last.

The only lead-acid batteries that are any good these days are true
golf cart batteries.

yeah no batteries last long, your far better off using a inverter
connected to your vehicles battery.

deep cycle batteries have just a one year warranty and their capacity
decreases fast over a period of a few years

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:45:56 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Dec 20, 10:22Â*pm, wrote:
If you use batteries, use "starved electrolyte" or "AGM" batteries. No
gassing. Optima YellowTops are a good reasonable solution - or go with
Hawker Genesis EPs if your budget stretches that far (they are PRICEY,
but excellent batteries)

Optima batteries are GARBAGE. Everyone I know who's tried them has
been sadly disappointed with their performance.

Those so-called "deep cycle" batteries are also GARBAGE. They don't
last.

The only lead-acid batteries that are any good these days are true
golf cart batteries.


And those can be crap too - I would NOT recommend flooded cell
batteries for the average user.

Optimas are top notch if properly used.

The Hawkers are WAY better, but at a much higher price.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:45:56 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Optima batteries are GARBAGE. Everyone I know who's tried them has
been sadly disappointed with their performance.

Well, that may or may not be true, but I will agree that a couple of
people I've known who bought them and who were disappointed had known
electrical problems with their vehicles they chose to address by
buying the Optima battery rather than fix the electrical problems.
Idiots. So maybe the problem with Optima batteries is the people who
buy them.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.


Make sure you don't use it so much you can't start the car.
--
3 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

Walmart now has closet lights that take D cells, and also camping
fluorescent lights that take D cells. Both are good light for summer
hurricanes. The 12 volt fans from the PC, a very good idea.


I have a 2 tube camping lantern that uses 4 D cells,runs 40hrs on one tube
or 20 on two. cost $12 about 4 yrs ago.


I also made up a 8 D cell battery pack with a 2.5mm power connector so it
can be used with either the closet fluorescent or the fans,as the alkalines
hold a charge for years.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120
Volt inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's
electrical system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and
inverter may be reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.

Yeah, but gas is cheap - and getting cheaper! Since Bush rescinded the
executive ban on off-shore drilling back on June 15th, the price of oil has
dropped by 2/3rds.

There is the convenience factor with cars. Big gas tank, relatively to
generator. And you can gas up your car if you can find a station which is
dispensing. Easier than lugging 5 galon gascans around.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.

My kind of survivalist. Way to go, chief! Git em!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...

I have a 2 tube camping lantern that uses 4 D cells,runs 40hrs on one tube
or 20 on two. cost $12 about 4 yrs ago.


I also made up a 8 D cell battery pack with a 2.5mm power connector so it
can be used with either the closet fluorescent or the fans,as the alkalines
hold a charge for years.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:13:09 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120
Volt inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's
electrical system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and
inverter may be reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.

Yeah, but gas is cheap - and getting cheaper! Since Bush rescinded the
executive ban on off-shore drilling back on June 15th, the price of oil has
dropped by 2/3rds.

Nothing to do with bush's actions - more to do with the crooks running
your banks, and the financial meltdown.

Regardless of the price, wasting fuel is insane.

On 22 Dec 2008 21:13:51 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

Walmart now has closet lights that take D cells, and also camping
fluorescent lights that take D cells. Both are good light for summer
hurricanes. The 12 volt fans from the PC, a very good idea.


I have a 2 tube camping lantern that uses 4 D cells,runs 40hrs on one tube
or 20 on two. cost $12 about 4 yrs ago.


I also made up a 8 D cell battery pack with a 2.5mm power connector so it
can be used with either the closet fluorescent or the fans,as the alkalines
hold a charge for years.
Better yet a 3 stage 21 LED lantern that runs on4 d" cells for over
40 hours on high.. Cost me $9.

I don't like the blue tint to the light. Much prefer crisp white
fluorescent.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

Better yet a 3 stage 21 LED lantern that runs on4 d" cells for over
40 hours on high.. Cost me $9.

wrote in
:

On 22 Dec 2008 21:13:51 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

Walmart now has closet lights that take D cells, and also camping
fluorescent lights that take D cells. Both are good light for summer
hurricanes. The 12 volt fans from the PC, a very good idea.


I have a 2 tube camping lantern that uses 4 D cells,runs 40hrs on one
tube or 20 on two. cost $12 about 4 yrs ago.


I also made up a 8 D cell battery pack with a 2.5mm power connector so
it can be used with either the closet fluorescent or the fans,as the
alkalines hold a charge for years.
Better yet a 3 stage 21 LED lantern that runs on4 d" cells for over
40 hours on high.. Cost me $9.


I suspect my flourescent gives more light than your LED lantern.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Dec 22, 1:44*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:





wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An inverter I would be scared to use more than 5-10 minutes and not
even full load. At idle it wont do anything to help.

On Dec 23, 10:44�am, ransley wrote:
On Dec 22, 1:44�pm, wrote:





On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An inverter I would be scared to use more than 5-10 minutes and not
even full load. At idle it wont do anything to help.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well gee, check the amp specs of a modern vehicles alternator, likely
over 200 amps.

alternators must be designed to charge a dead battery to full charge,
so they must be rugged, espically when you drive around on a bad
battery for weeks before it finally dies

a 1000 watt inverter isnt a big load. lots RVers use them constantly.
they arent dangerous

On Dec 23, 10:44�am, ransley wrote:
On Dec 22, 1:44�pm, wrote:





On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An inverter I would be scared to use more than 5-10 minutes and not
even full load. At idle it wont do anything to help.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

at idle the alternator acts like a load and the engine automatically
increases power, its not rocket scence, and just like your cars engine
speeds up when the AC kicks in

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:20:12 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 23, 10:44?am, ransley wrote:
On Dec 22, 1:44?pm, wrote:





On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An inverter I would be scared to use more than 5-10 minutes and not
even full load. At idle it wont do anything to help.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well gee, check the amp specs of a modern vehicles alternator, likely
over 200 amps.

alternators must be designed to charge a dead battery to full charge,
so they must be rugged, espically when you drive around on a bad
battery for weeks before it finally dies


That is where you are wrong.
The alternator is NOT designed to charge a dead battery. It should be
- but in most cases it is not.

The bad battery you speak of does not usually TAKE a full charge
anyway.
The 135 amp unit used on virtually every GM truck, as well an most
cars from '88 to '95 (and possibly other years as well) was well known
for oveheating when asked to produce more than about 65 amps - to the
point there was a large aftermarket business installing modified "cool
case" conversions. The alternator is NOT built to produce anywhere
near full output on a steady basis..
a 1000 watt inverter isnt a big load. lots RVers use them constantly.
they arent dangerous

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:21:59 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 23, 10:44?am, ransley wrote:
On Dec 22, 1:44?pm, wrote:





On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An inverter I would be scared to use more than 5-10 minutes and not
even full load. At idle it wont do anything to help.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

at idle the alternator acts like a load and the engine automatically
increases power, its not rocket scence, and just like your cars engine
speeds up when the AC kicks in


Alternator load does NOT increase the engine speed. The idle speed
compensating devise (idle air control, or whatever) keeps the idle at
specified idle speed when load increases or decreases - but idle speed
is NOT enough to produce full output - nor is it high enough to cool
the alternator at the maximum power it is able to produce at idle - in
MOST cases.

On Dec 23, 1:17�pm, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:20:12 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:44?am, ransley wrote:
On Dec 22, 1:44?pm, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An inverter I would be scared to use more than 5-10 minutes and not
even full load. At idle it wont do anything to help.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well gee, check the amp specs of a modern vehicles alternator, likely
over 200 amps.

alternators must be designed to charge a dead battery to full charge,
so they must be rugged, espically when you drive around on a bad
battery for weeks before it finally dies

That is where you are wrong.
The alternator is NOT designed to charge a dead battery. It should be
- but in most cases it is not.

The bad battery you speak of does not usually TAKE a full charge
anyway.
The 135 amp unit used on virtually every GM truck, as well an most
cars from '88 to '95 (and possibly other years as well) was well known
for oveheating when asked to produce more than about 65 amps - to the
point there was a large aftermarket business installing modified "cool
case" conversions. The alternator is NOT built to produce anywhere
near full output on a steady basis..



a 1000 watt inverter isnt a big load. lots RVers use them constantly.
they arent dangerous- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

todays alternators are usually rated around 200 amps

On 23 Dec 2008 13:21:16 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

wrote in
:

On 22 Dec 2008 21:13:51 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

Walmart now has closet lights that take D cells, and also camping
fluorescent lights that take D cells. Both are good light for summer
hurricanes. The 12 volt fans from the PC, a very good idea.


I have a 2 tube camping lantern that uses 4 D cells,runs 40hrs on one
tube or 20 on two. cost $12 about 4 yrs ago.


I also made up a 8 D cell battery pack with a 2.5mm power connector so
it can be used with either the closet fluorescent or the fans,as the
alkalines hold a charge for years.
Better yet a 3 stage 21 LED lantern that runs on4 d" cells for over
40 hours on high.. Cost me $9.


I suspect my flourescent gives more light than your LED lantern.

Perhaps - but I'll look directly at your lantern. I will NOT look
directly at the LED lamp. The lantern may light SPACE better, but the
led throws a mean beam.

wrote in
:

On 23 Dec 2008 13:21:16 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

wrote in
m:

On 22 Dec 2008 21:13:51 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

Walmart now has closet lights that take D cells, and also camping
fluorescent lights that take D cells. Both are good light for summer
hurricanes. The 12 volt fans from the PC, a very good idea.


I have a 2 tube camping lantern that uses 4 D cells,runs 40hrs on one
tube or 20 on two. cost $12 about 4 yrs ago.


I also made up a 8 D cell battery pack with a 2.5mm power connector so
it can be used with either the closet fluorescent or the fans,as the
alkalines hold a charge for years.
Better yet a 3 stage 21 LED lantern that runs on4 d" cells for over
40 hours on high.. Cost me $9.


I suspect my flourescent gives more light than your LED lantern.

Perhaps - but I'll look directly at your lantern. I will NOT look
directly at the LED lamp. The lantern may light SPACE better, but the
led throws a mean beam.


I use lanterns for room lighting and flashlights(LED) for spot lighting.
and I don't look AT my lantern,I look at what it's illuminating.
[like a book 8-) ]

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

One perosn may choose totally different than another perosn. Not that either
is more right than the other, just having different needs. In a temperate
climate, a person may not need a furnace or AC. On the other hand, in the
deep south or the north of US, a perosn may wish for some generator power
for the furnace or AC.

As your fluorescent, it's likely brighter than the LED lantern.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
wrote in
:

On 22 Dec 2008 21:13:51 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

Walmart now has closet lights that take D cells, and also camping
fluorescent lights that take D cells. Both are good light for summer
hurricanes. The 12 volt fans from the PC, a very good idea.


I have a 2 tube camping lantern that uses 4 D cells,runs 40hrs on one
tube or 20 on two. cost $12 about 4 yrs ago.


I also made up a 8 D cell battery pack with a 2.5mm power connector so
it can be used with either the closet fluorescent or the fans,as the
alkalines hold a charge for years.
Better yet a 3 stage 21 LED lantern that runs on4 d" cells for over
40 hours on high.. Cost me $9.


I suspect my flourescent gives more light than your LED lantern.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Stormin Mormon wrote:
One perosn may choose totally different than another perosn. Not that either
is more right than the other, just having different needs. In a temperate
climate, a person may not need a furnace or AC. On the other hand, in the
deep south or the north of US, a perosn may wish for some generator power
for the furnace or AC.

As your fluorescent, it's likely brighter than the LED lantern.


Wut iz uh "perosn"?

TDD

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:54:05 -0500, "Twayne"
wrote:

I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

Wow; a lot of responses, some good, some well, not so.

Basically IMO it depends on what you need and how long an outage you
want to plan for.
As long as it's only a little light, the radio & maybe small TV, you
would be fine with 12V devices. If you need to continue life as
though the power weren't out, neither solutio would help unless it
was a good sized genset.

If you have to provide heat (freezing weather or colder) or air
conditioning, use anything that draws substantial current (any large
item; refrigerator, freezer full of meat, microwave, toaster, lots of
lights and gosh knows what, you should work out the wattage you need
by adding those all up according to what's on the nameplates, and
get a generator of at least that much capability, which may top
3,000 watts worse case.
In a way, living alone adds additional btu requirements since there
aren't others there to contribute body heat either.

IMO if you don't have to worry about refrigerators, freezers,
furnaces, air conditioners, you'd be fine with batteries; just check
how long they last at the loads you'll place on them and go from
there. Oh, and if you have well water, you'd have something else to
power, too.

We have a 5,000 Wat generator and it will run our well pump, fridge
and freezer and a few lights all at once. But usually we kill the
regrigerator/freezer to run the well pump just to keep the generator
from being overly taxed; everything on makes it work really hard
should they all demand power at the same time.
There's a transfer switch: Start the genset and flick the switch,
and it turns on the house power thru its own set of breakers. So be
sure to add a Transfer Switch to the cost if you fo the generator
route. They're arond $100 plus installation which you'd need
permission from the owner to do.
In the overall, batteriy power it best if it can give you enough to
do the things you need to do for as long as the longest period of
time you think you'll need it.
Hmm, maybe a battery system and a small genset to charge the
battery system if it's needed? Nothing to install that way; just
plug the battery chargers nto the genset when you need to charge it.
No transwer switch, no installation.

HTH

Twayne


Or do what I've done. I have an old 2500 watt Onan and I have the
furnace set up that I can plug it in to either the mains or an
extension cord from the generator. I run a 14 gauge cord from the
generator (out in the shed) into the house and plug the furnace in to
get the house warm, along with a couple of lamps. Then I disconnect
the furnace and run the fridge for a while if necessary. I can plug in
whatever I need to run when I need it, and in that way I can limit my
loads to 2500 watts. Obviously the kitchen range and the drier cannot
be used.
My hot water heater is gas, as is the furnace.

I did that once and only once! Had just bought the generator
fortunately, but ... wouldn't you know, we were without power for 6 days
that January? Determined to get the stupid switch installed after that,
I'll tell ya what! g. Of course, we haven't had another one that bad
since 1998, but ... now at least I can just plug in the house & flip the
right breakers. It'll run the well pump when we need it but not much
else, but that's OK; at least it's just switches on the txfr switch.

There is the convenience factor with cars. Big gas tank, relatively to
generator. And you can gas up your car if you can find a station
which is dispensing. Easier than lugging 5 galon gascans around.

Yeah, if you can only find a way around the stupid anti-siphon crap! I
don't like pulling a gas line & running the fuel pump to get gas out of
it. Did it once, but ... still don't like it.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:12:21 -0500, "Twayne"
wrote:

There is the convenience factor with cars. Big gas tank, relatively to
generator. And you can gas up your car if you can find a station
which is dispensing. Easier than lugging 5 galon gascans around.

Yeah, if you can only find a way around the stupid anti-siphon crap! I
don't like pulling a gas line & running the fuel pump to get gas out of
it. Did it once, but ... still don't like it.

On MOST EFI cars there is a simple solution. Just get a hose that
threads onto the schrader valve on the injection log (the fitting for
testing fuel pressure). put the hose on and into your gas can, and
start the car. It will idle, but you won't rev it very high -The fuel
pump will fill your can.

On Dec 23, 10:20*am, " wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:44 am, ransley wrote:





On Dec 22, 1:44 pm, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An inverter I would be scared to use more than 5-10 minutes and not
even full load. At idle it wont do anything to help.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well gee, check the amp specs of a modern vehicles alternator, likely
over 200 amps.

alternators must be designed to charge a dead battery to full charge,
so they must be rugged, espically when you drive around on a bad
battery for weeks before it finally dies

a 1000 watt inverter isnt a big load. lots RVers use them constantly.
they arent dangerous- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An Rv gen is not a car gen, its heavy duty vs my economy thing. Drive
a car there is airflow keeping things under control, to get power he
will need alot more than idle, maybe 12-1500 rpm, in a car that has no
air flow it will stress things to be overheated possibly. Alternators
can charge a battery but every mechanic I talk to says you shorten
their life, ruin it if you abuse them. An alternator costs alot more
than a cheap chinese gen and will leave you stranded, if its 5 minutes
running I would do it, with a junk car ok, maybe a truck with a big
gen, but not a driver unless I knew with the right equipment that I
wasnt damaging anything. A new alternator for me is im sure over 300,
Northern Tool has a cheap chinese 1000w gen that has a very good
review at alt.energy.homepower for only 100 dollars. Be stranded when
you abuse your car alternator now in winter, or get a cheap 100$
chinese gen. I take the genertor route for 100$

On Dec 23, 10:21*am, " wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:44 am, ransley wrote:





On Dec 22, 1:44 pm, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An inverter I would be scared to use more than 5-10 minutes and not
even full load. At idle it wont do anything to help.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

at idle the alternator acts like a load and the engine automatically
increases power, its not rocket scence, and just like your cars engine
speeds up when the AC kicks in- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And you dont know what you are talking about at all. the idle increase
you see is from an AC idle speed circuit, and NO a car does not
increase speed automaticly with a heavy alternator load. Unless things
have changed recently.

On Dec 23, 12:20*pm, " wrote:
On Dec 23, 1:17 pm, wrote:





On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:20:12 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:44?am, ransley wrote:
On Dec 22, 1:44?pm, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An inverter I would be scared to use more than 5-10 minutes and not
even full load. At idle it wont do anything to help.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well gee, check the amp specs of a modern vehicles alternator, likely
over 200 amps.

alternators must be designed to charge a dead battery to full charge,
so they must be rugged, espically when you drive around on a bad
battery for weeks before it finally dies

That is where you are wrong.
The alternator is NOT designed to charge a dead battery. It should be
- but in most cases it is not.

The bad battery you speak of does not usually TAKE a full charge
anyway.
The 135 amp unit used on virtually every GM truck, as well an most
cars from '88 to '95 (and possibly other years as well) was well known
for oveheating when asked to produce more than about 65 amps - to the
point there was a large aftermarket business installing modified "cool
case" conversions. The alternator is NOT built to produce anywhere
near full output on a steady basis..

a 1000 watt inverter isnt a big load. lots RVers use them constantly.
they arent dangerous- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

todays alternators are usually rated around 200 amps- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ratings, how about size and no cooling. I have little RC motors that
take 30a but will fry an egg and ment the windings. Have you looked at
the size of this stuff, wake up man output is windings, you make 1-200
a out of a gen that is 1/5 the size of old stuff that used to last
200000 miles, and it is just logic it runs real hot with no air or
even air. Then aftermarket is there in alternators since these million
watt stereos blow them out.

On Dec 25, 8:06�am, ransley wrote:
On Dec 23, 12:20�pm, " wrote:





On Dec 23, 1:17 pm, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:20:12 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:44?am, ransley wrote:
On Dec 22, 1:44?pm, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An inverter I would be scared to use more than 5-10 minutes and not
even full load. At idle it wont do anything to help.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well gee, check the amp specs of a modern vehicles alternator, likely
over 200 amps.

alternators must be designed to charge a dead battery to full charge,
so they must be rugged, espically when you drive around on a bad
battery for weeks before it finally dies

That is where you are wrong.
The alternator is NOT designed to charge a dead battery. It should be
- but in most cases it is not.

The bad battery you speak of does not usually TAKE a full charge
anyway.
The 135 amp unit used on virtually every GM truck, as well an most
cars from '88 to '95 (and possibly other years as well) was well known
for oveheating when asked to produce more than about 65 amps - to the
point there was a large aftermarket business installing modified "cool
case" conversions. The alternator is NOT built to produce anywhere
near full output on a steady basis..

a 1000 watt inverter isnt a big load. lots RVers use them constantly..
they arent dangerous- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

todays alternators are usually rated around 200 amps- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ratings, how about size and no cooling. I have little RC motors that
take 30a but will fry an egg and ment the windings. Have you looked at
the size of this stuff, wake up man output is windings, you make 1-200
a out of a gen that is 1/5 the size of old stuff that used to last
200000 miles, and it is just logic it runs real hot with no air or
even air. Then aftermarket is there in alternators since these million
watt stereos blow them out.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

nearly all electronics today are smaller, with higher output. I have
used my 1000 watt inverter many times, without a problem.

A perosn is (according to the subject line) the device which needs the
emergency power.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
One perosn may choose totally different than another perosn. Not that
either
is more right than the other, just having different needs. In a temperate
climate, a person may not need a furnace or AC. On the other hand, in the
deep south or the north of US, a perosn may wish for some generator power
for the furnace or AC.

As your fluorescent, it's likely brighter than the LED lantern.


Wut iz uh "perosn"?

TDD

On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 05:43:10 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 25, 8:06?am, ransley wrote:
On Dec 23, 12:20?pm, " wrote:





On Dec 23, 1:17 pm, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:20:12 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:44?am, ransley wrote:
On Dec 22, 1:44?pm, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An inverter I would be scared to use more than 5-10 minutes and not
even full load. At idle it wont do anything to help.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

well gee, check the amp specs of a modern vehicles alternator, likely
over 200 amps.

alternators must be designed to charge a dead battery to full charge,
so they must be rugged, espically when you drive around on a bad
battery for weeks before it finally dies

That is where you are wrong.
The alternator is NOT designed to charge a dead battery. It should be
- but in most cases it is not.

The bad battery you speak of does not usually TAKE a full charge
anyway.
The 135 amp unit used on virtually every GM truck, as well an most
cars from '88 to '95 (and possibly other years as well) was well known
for oveheating when asked to produce more than about 65 amps - to the
point there was a large aftermarket business installing modified "cool
case" conversions. The alternator is NOT built to produce anywhere
near full output on a steady basis..

a 1000 watt inverter isnt a big load. lots RVers use them constantly.
they arent dangerous- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

todays alternators are usually rated around 200 amps- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ratings, how about size and no cooling. I have little RC motors that
take 30a but will fry an egg and ment the windings. Have you looked at
the size of this stuff, wake up man output is windings, you make 1-200
a out of a gen that is 1/5 the size of old stuff that used to last
200000 miles, and it is just logic it runs real hot with no air or
even air. Then aftermarket is there in alternators since these million
watt stereos blow them out.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

nearly all electronics today are smaller, with higher output. I have
used my 1000 watt inverter many times, without a problem.
But what load were you running, and for how long?
The 1000 watt inverter itself draws very little.. You could run it
'till the cows come home. Load it to 1000 watts, so it draws 80 amps
and a 130 amp alternator (particularly the little GM job will be at
it's limit. And it won't be putting out even 80 amps at idle.

The fact is, using the automotive alternator, running your car engine
for emergency power is NOT an efficientor effective way to do things.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 05:01:24 -0800 (PST), ransley
wrote:

On Dec 23, 10:21Â*am, " wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:44 am, ransley wrote:





On Dec 22, 1:44 pm, wrote:

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:07:48 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
I live in north Missouri where ice storms can readily
happen..... and knock power out

I also live alone and in rented duplex....so my needs
for power are smaller and require more portability than
others.

Having said that... I'm wondering if buying a small
Honda generator and 120 volt devices is better than say
getting jump start batteries and using them with 12volt
devices (lights, etc)

In addition to the other suggestions, you might consider a 12-120 Volt
inverter (and long extension cord) you can run off your car's electrical
system. What with gasoline being so cheap these days, and inverter may be
reasonable insurance.

But the car at idle will not produce full output - and a 130 Amo GM
alternator will burn out in about 1/2 hour at 100 amps - (most others
are not much better) - and the car will burn more gas producing that
1200 watts than a 5000 watt unit will at full load.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

An inverter I would be scared to use more than 5-10 minutes and not
even full load. At idle it wont do anything to help.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

at idle the alternator acts like a load and the engine automatically
increases power, its not rocket scence, and just like your cars engine
speeds up when the AC kicks in- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And you dont know what you are talking about at all. the idle increase
you see is from an AC idle speed circuit, and NO a car does not
increase speed automaticly with a heavy alternator load. Unless things
have changed recently.


They have in many ways, but not in THAT way.

There are two, and possibly 3 things that will cause the engine to
speed up which are load related. AC is the most common.
Power sterring pressure is another relatively common one. Turn the
steering wheel on some vehicles and the idle speed will increase.
The third is trans load. Putting SOME cars into drive causes the idle
speed to increase. VERY few.