I am replacing my water heater expansion tank. It is leaking at the
weld (piece of carp). Anyway my question assumes the following:

H2O pressure measured at hose bib: 80 PSI
System pressure recommended by expansion tank mfr: 60 PSI
New tank max PSI: 100

My questions:
Do I just add more air to get to 80 PSI?
Is a small electric tire compressor ok or must it be a hand/tire pump?


TIA

Rob

If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi.

EJ in NJ

wrote:
I am replacing my water heater expansion tank. It is leaking at the
weld (piece of carp). Anyway my question assumes the following:

H2O pressure measured at hose bib: 80 PSI
System pressure recommended by expansion tank mfr: 60 PSI
New tank max PSI: 100

My questions:
Do I just add more air to get to 80 PSI?
Is a small electric tire compressor ok or must it be a hand/tire pump?


TIA

Rob

On Dec 14, 10:12 am, Bubba wrote:
Ernie,
You are a freakin idiot.
You pressurize the new tank to match the pressure of the incoming
water to the home.
With your thinking, why would they even put ANY air in the tank at
all.
How you pump the tank up makes no difference. Just match it to the psi
in your home.
Bubba

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 22:19:34 -0500, Ernie Willson

wrote:
If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi.

EJ in NJ

wrote:
I am replacing my water heater expansion tank. It is leaking at the
weld (piece of carp). Anyway my question assumes the following:

H2O pressure measured at hose bib: 80 PSI
System pressure recommended by expansion tank mfr: 60 PSI
New tank max PSI: 100

My questions:
Do I just add more air to get to 80 PSI?
Is a small electric tire compressor ok or must it be a hand/tire pump?

TIA

Rob

Here you go... http://www.watts.com/pdf/1915356.pdf step-by-step
instruction for adjusting the pre-charge of a potable water thermal
expansion tank.

On Dec 13, 10:19*pm, Ernie Willson wrote:
If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi.

EJ in NJ


Ernie-

I installed the new tank and turned the water back on. The system
didn't pressurize itself.
I'm going out to get some kind of pump to add the needed pressure.

Bubba-

Thanks for the additional info. I just went out and checked the
tank...no change from the factory charge. Eddie wasn't as helpful as
he could have been, that's for sure. Why would someone reply with a
wrong answer... Damn newsgroups aren't what they once were. I'm headed
out to get some type of pump. Then, I'll come back and turn off the
water, discharge the system then, re-pressurize.

What ****ed me off more was when I called the local water utility to
find out what the pressure might be. He said it varies from meter to
meter call a plumber. After he asked for my address. A $10 gauge from
the underground sprinkler system gave me the answer.

All in all I figure this probably saved me from a plumber's overtime/
weekend rates.

Rob


On Dec 14, 12:12*pm, Bubba wrote:
Ernie,
You are a freakin idiot.
You pressurize the new tank to match the pressure of the incoming
water to the home.
With your thinking, why would they even put ANY air in the tank at
all.
How you pump the tank up makes no difference. Just match it to the psi
in your home.
Bubba

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 22:19:34 -0500, Ernie Willson

wrote:
If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi.

EJ in NJ

wrote:
I am replacing my water heater expansion tank. It is leaking at the
weld (piece of carp). Anyway my question assumes the following:

H2O pressure measured at hose bib: 80 PSI
System pressure recommended by expansion tank mfr: 60 PSI
New tank max PSI: 100

My questions:
Do I just add more air to get to 80 PSI?
Is a small electric tire compressor ok or must it be a hand/tire pump?

TIA

Rob

" wrote in message
...
On Dec 13, 10:19 pm, Ernie Willson wrote:
If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi.

EJ in NJ


Ernie-

I installed the new tank and turned the water back on. The system
didn't pressurize itself.
I'm going out to get some kind of pump to add the needed pressure.

************************************************** **********

What does that mean? "The system didn't pressurize itself"?

The pressure inside the tank should be identical to the water pressure.

Bob,

You are completely correct. Thanks for your comment. I'm having
difficulty understanding Bubba's "intelligent" comment. People like him
make ignorant people look smart.

EJ in NJ

Bob F wrote:
" wrote in message
...
On Dec 13, 10:19 pm, Ernie Willson wrote:
If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi.

EJ in NJ


Ernie-

I installed the new tank and turned the water back on. The system
didn't pressurize itself.
I'm going out to get some kind of pump to add the needed pressure.

************************************************** **********

What does that mean? "The system didn't pressurize itself"?

The pressure inside the tank should be identical to the water pressure.

Ernie said:
"If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if
you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi. "

The replacement tank was pressurized from the factory to 36 PSI. After
installing the tank, turning the water back and running the water for
a few minutes... I turned off the water and went back and checked the
pressure. It was 36 PSI NOT at the 80 PSI I measured at the hose bib
prior to installing the new tank. So, I turned the water off at the
main and drained the system. Then, I added pressure to the tank to
match the 80 PSI.

Thanks to everyone!


On Dec 14, 4:45*pm, Ernie Willson wrote:
Bob,

You are completely correct. Thanks for your comment. I'm having
difficulty understanding Bubba's "intelligent" comment. People like him
make ignorant people look smart.

EJ in NJ

Bob F wrote:
" wrote in message
....
On Dec 13, 10:19 pm, Ernie Willson wrote:
If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi.

EJ in NJ

Ernie-

I installed the new tank and turned the water back on. The system
didn't pressurize itself.
I'm going out to get some kind of pump to add the needed pressure.

************************************************** **********

What does that mean? "The system didn't pressurize itself"?

The pressure inside the tank should be identical to the water pressure.

On Dec 14, 6:46*pm, "
wrote:
Ernie said:
"If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if
you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi. "

The replacement tank was pressurized from the factory to 36 PSI. After
installing the tank, turning the water back and running the water for
a few minutes... I turned off the water and went back and checked the
pressure. It was 36 PSI NOT at the 80 PSI I measured at the hose bib
prior to installing the new tank. So, I turned the water off at the
main and drained the system. Then, I added pressure to the tank to
match the 80 PSI.

Thanks to everyone!

On Dec 14, 4:45*pm, Ernie Willson wrote:

Bob,

You are completely correct. Thanks for your comment. I'm having
difficulty understanding Bubba's "intelligent" comment. People like him
make ignorant people look smart.

EJ in NJ

Bob F wrote:
" wrote in message
....
On Dec 13, 10:19 pm, Ernie Willson wrote:
If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi.

EJ in NJ

Ernie-

I installed the new tank and turned the water back on. The system
didn't pressurize itself.
I'm going out to get some kind of pump to add the needed pressure.

************************************************** **********

What does that mean? "The system didn't pressurize itself"?

The pressure inside the tank should be identical to the water pressure.

Huh, You shouldnt have had to add any air to it at all. The initial
pressure in the tank determines the water to air ratio in the tank
during operation.I think anywhere from 1/3 water to 2/3 water is good.
The way you have it set up there is almost no water in the tank. You
should have measured the pressure with the water on before you screwed
with it. That reading would have equaled your water pressure and the
tank would have been about half full of water. I got a question, does
your system have a backflow preventer. Around here a lot of plumbers
install the tanks without the backflow preventer rendering the purpose
of the tank useless.

Jimmie

On Dec 14, 6:00 pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Dec 14, 6:46 pm, "
wrote:



Ernie said:
"If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if
you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi. "

The replacement tank was pressurized from the factory to 36 PSI. After
installing the tank, turning the water back and running the water for
a few minutes... I turned off the water and went back and checked the
pressure. It was 36 PSI NOT at the 80 PSI I measured at the hose bib
prior to installing the new tank. So, I turned the water off at the
main and drained the system. Then, I added pressure to the tank to
match the 80 PSI.

Thanks to everyone!

On Dec 14, 4:45 pm, Ernie Willson wrote:

Bob,

You are completely correct. Thanks for your comment. I'm having
difficulty understanding Bubba's "intelligent" comment. People like him
make ignorant people look smart.

EJ in NJ

Bob F wrote:
" wrote in message
...
On Dec 13, 10:19 pm, Ernie Willson wrote:
If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi.

EJ in NJ

Ernie-

I installed the new tank and turned the water back on. The system
didn't pressurize itself.
I'm going out to get some kind of pump to add the needed pressure.

************************************************** **********

What does that mean? "The system didn't pressurize itself"?

The pressure inside the tank should be identical to the water pressure.

Huh, You shouldnt have had to add any air to it at all. The initial
pressure in the tank determines the water to air ratio in the tank
during operation.I think anywhere from 1/3 water to 2/3 water is good.
The way you have it set up there is almost no water in the tank. You
should have measured the pressure with the water on before you screwed
with it. That reading would have equaled your water pressure and the
tank would have been about half full of water. I got a question, does
your system have a backflow preventer. Around here a lot of plumbers
install the tanks without the backflow preventer rendering the purpose
of the tank useless.

Jimmie

This is laughable... the facts that detail the installation and proper
procedure for setting the air pre-charge for a potable water thermal
expansion tank were posted by me earlier in this thread. The link was
to Watts, the manufacturer of said tanks and among the largest
supplier of plumbing hardware in the US if not the world. They know a
little bit about what they do and the code requirements of what they
sell.

To all those who think they know more than Watts... read and learn
http://www.watts.com/pdf/1915356.pdf

For those seeking to learn about thermal expansion in house plumbing
in general here you go...
http://www.watts.com/pro/divisions/w...n.asp?catId=64

best solution would be to regulate the house down a bit. but to answer your
question, yes, just air the tank to 80 psi with the water off and the lines
discharged.

s


" wrote in message
...
I am replacing my water heater expansion tank. It is leaking at the
weld (piece of carp). Anyway my question assumes the following:

H2O pressure measured at hose bib: 80 PSI
System pressure recommended by expansion tank mfr: 60 PSI
New tank max PSI: 100

My questions:
Do I just add more air to get to 80 PSI?
Is a small electric tire compressor ok or must it be a hand/tire pump?


TIA

Rob

On Dec 14, 10:02*pm, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:
best solution would be to regulate the house down a bit. *but to answer your
question, yes, just air the tank to 80 psi with the water off and the lines
discharged.

s

" wrote in message

...

I am replacing my water heater expansion tank. It is leaking at the
weld (piece of carp). Anyway my question assumes the following:

H2O pressure measured at hose bib: 80 PSI
System pressure recommended by expansion tank mfr: 60 PSI
New tank max PSI: 100

My questions:
Do I just add more air to get to 80 PSI?
Is a small electric tire compressor ok or must it be a hand/tire pump?

TIA

Rob

Yes I didnt catch he was running 80 PSI already. I was too interested
in the fact he messed with the pre-charge and what he had done to it.
I am betting he is working straight off the curb and has no PRV.or
backflow preventer. If these things are selected properly to start
with you shouldnt have to do anything but plumb them in. The HD and
LOWES has a pamplet you can get to help you select the right one. The
local mom and pop store will also loan you a pressure guage, deposit
required of course.

Jimmie

Rob,
No problem. Its a shame there are idiots like Ernie and JIMMIE in
here. I dont understand it either why someone answers with the wrong
crap. Either they are just total morons or they just like futzing up
the group. The pressure does vary a bit from meter to meter. Either
way, I dont think I'd have called a plumber on the weekend for that.
Not exactly an emergency you know? Maybe Ernie and JIMMIE will trip
and fall on their big ol noggin tomorrow and knock a little more
nonsense into their thick skulls. Sounds like youve got it figured out
correctly now.
Just remember, If you read it on the internet "Its gotta be true" *:-)
Bubba

Bubba-

Thanks again. "If you read it on the internet "Its gotta be
true"...exactly what I was thinking as I was going to check the
pressure the first time and found it still at the factory charge. LOL!

Rob

On Dec 15, 7:00*pm, "
wrote:
Rob,
No problem. Its a shame there are idiots like Ernie and JIMMIE in
here. I dont understand it either why someone answers with the wrong
crap. Either they are just total morons or they just like futzing up
the group. The pressure does vary a bit from meter to meter. Either
way, I dont think I'd have called a plumber on the weekend for that.
Not exactly an emergency you know? Maybe Ernie and JIMMIE will trip
and fall on their big ol noggin tomorrow and knock a little more
nonsense into their thick skulls. Sounds like youve got it figured out
correctly now.
Just remember, If you read it on the internet "Its gotta be true" *:-)
Bubba

Bubba-

Thanks again. "If you read it on the internet "Its gotta be
true"...exactly what I was thinking as I was going to check the
pressure the first time and found it still at the factory charge. LOL!



http://www.griffithengineering.net/s...ks_revised.pdf

Mark

On Dec 15, 6:42*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:35:33 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE





wrote:
On Dec 14, 10:02*pm, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:
best solution would be to regulate the house down a bit. *but to answer your
question, yes, just air the tank to 80 psi with the water off and the lines
discharged.

s

" wrote in message

....

I am replacing my water heater expansion tank. It is leaking at the
weld (piece of carp). Anyway my question assumes the following:

H2O pressure measured at hose bib: 80 PSI
System pressure recommended by expansion tank mfr: 60 PSI
New tank max PSI: 100

My questions:
Do I just add more air to get to 80 PSI?
Is a small electric tire compressor ok or must it be a hand/tire pump?

TIA

Rob

Yes I didnt catch he was running 80 PSI already. I was too interested
in the fact he messed with the pre-charge and what he had done to it.
I am betting he is working straight off the curb and has no PRV.or
backflow preventer. If these things are selected properly to start
with you shouldnt have to do anything but plumb them in. The HD and
LOWES has a pamplet you can get to help you select the right one. The
local mom and pop store will also loan you a pressure guage, deposit
required of course.

Jimmie

Jimmie,
What is it that is so hard for you to understand that the tank does
NOT come preset to the pressure that YOU need for it in YOUR home?
The word "pre-charged" on the tank ONLY means that it has SOME air in
it ...........as in..........ITS NOT EMPTY! To be properly installed
the tank MUST be set to the same air pressure as the water pressure.
Its REALLY that simple. Why is it you cant seem to get that through
your noggin? Stop telling people stupid **** that you dont know. YOU
ARE WRONG! Face it. You ****ed up. Now admit it. You are a back yard
shade tree mechanic wanna be and you dont know what you are talking
about. Home Depot and Lowes......??!! hehe. Yeah, now there is a
source for some real professional advice. Have you ever seen one
professional in there? Nope. Most all of them are old retired guys
that have nothing better to do. Not knocking the old guys but they
arent pros. Stop being so hard headed and stupid.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

First per manufactures info they DO come precharged to about 40 PSI,
anyone who wants to google around the manufacturers sites can find
this out.secondly I didnt say a damned thing about reccomendations
from people who work at any of the mentioned stores. If Bubba was
wrong on this he probably doesnt know diddly about anything.
Yep I see plenty of the pros in there because they dont want to have
to drive 30 miles to a specialty store.
Just check for excessively high pressure and stick the thing in. After
all how many people do you think are going to check the pressure on a
regular basis to make sure nothing has changed

wrote:
Bubba-

Thanks for the additional info. I just went out and checked the
tank...no change from the factory charge. Eddie wasn't as helpful as
he could have been, that's for sure. Why would someone reply with a
wrong answer... Damn newsgroups aren't what they once were. I'm headed
out to get some type of pump. Then, I'll come back and turn off the
water, discharge the system then, re-pressurize.

What ****ed me off more was when I called the local water utility to
find out what the pressure might be. He said it varies from meter to
meter call a plumber. After he asked for my address. A $10 gauge from
the underground sprinkler system gave me the answer.



Actually the water company gave you the correct answer. It varies as to
where you are in the system and also changes according to system usage.
When you measured your pressure you simply saw the pressure at that
particular time.


All in all I figure this probably saved me from a plumber's overtime/
weekend rates.

Rob


On Dec 14, 12:12 pm, Bubba wrote:
Ernie,
You are a freakin idiot.
You pressurize the new tank to match the pressure of the incoming
water to the home.
With your thinking, why would they even put ANY air in the tank at
all.
How you pump the tank up makes no difference. Just match it to the psi
in your home.
Bubba

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 22:19:34 -0500, Ernie Willson

wrote:
If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi.
EJ in NJ
wrote:
I am replacing my water heater expansion tank. It is leaking at the
weld (piece of carp). Anyway my question assumes the following:
H2O pressure measured at hose bib: 80 PSI
System pressure recommended by expansion tank mfr: 60 PSI
New tank max PSI: 100
My questions:
Do I just add more air to get to 80 PSI?
Is a small electric tire compressor ok or must it be a hand/tire pump?
TIA
Rob

On Dec 14, 7:02*pm, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:
best solution would be to regulate the house down a bit. *but to answer your
question, yes, just air the tank to 80 psi with the water off and the lines
discharged.

s


Correct. 80 psi is much higher than is recommended for residential
use. 60 psi (measured at the house) is about the most ever needed
unless it is a commercial establishment. Pressures higher than 60
cause excessive strain on fixtures for no percieveable gain.

If a Pressure Reducing Valve is not installed at either the meter or
where the water enters the house, one should be installed.

Harry K

On Dec 14, 5:00*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Dec 14, 6:46*pm, "
wrote:





Ernie said:
"If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if
you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi. "

The replacement tank was pressurized from the factory to 36 PSI. After
installing the tank, turning the water back and running the water for
a few minutes... I turned off the water and went back and checked the
pressure. It was 36 PSI NOT at the 80 PSI I measured at the hose bib
prior to installing the new tank. So, I turned the water off at the
main and drained the system. Then, I added pressure to the tank to
match the 80 PSI.

Thanks to everyone!

On Dec 14, 4:45*pm, Ernie Willson wrote:

Bob,

You are completely correct. Thanks for your comment. I'm having
difficulty understanding Bubba's "intelligent" comment. People like him
make ignorant people look smart.

EJ in NJ

Bob F wrote:
" wrote in message
...
On Dec 13, 10:19 pm, Ernie Willson wrote:
If the water pressure is 80 PSI then it will pressurize any entrapped
air to the same pressure. You do not need to put any air in. Even if you
managed to get all the air out the system pressure would be the water
pressure...80 psi.

EJ in NJ

Ernie-

I installed the new tank and turned the water back on. The system
didn't pressurize itself.
I'm going out to get some kind of pump to add the needed pressure.

************************************************** **********

What does that mean? "The system didn't pressurize itself"?

The pressure inside the tank should be identical to the water pressure.

Huh, You shouldnt have had to add any air to it at all. The initial
pressure in the tank determines the water to air ratio in the tank
during operation.I think anywhere from 1/3 water to 2/3 water is good.
The way you have it set up there is almost no water in the tank. You
should have measured the pressure with the water on before you screwed
with it. That reading would have equaled your water pressure and the
tank would have been about half full of water. I got a question, does
your system have a backflow preventer. Around here a lot of plumbers
install the tanks without the backflow preventer rendering the purpose
of the tank useless.

Jimmie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This was posted earlier by someone:

http://www.griffithengineering.net/s...ks_revised.pdf

It is wordy but correct. You, on the other hand, are full of it.
Simple to convince yourself - just ask to look at the instructions in
any plumbing store.

Tanks will come with a standard pre-charge of around 40 psi and need
to have that corrected for the system pressure. You don't go into a
store and look for a tank with a 80 psi pre-charge because there will
only be ones with 40 psi. Thus there is no 'selection' involved.
Only choice you have is "how big a tank".

The amazing thing is that, if it is a new tank, there will be
instrctions included that say to pre-charge it to the system pressure
and the thread should have been unnecessary.

Harry K

The amazing thing is that, if it is a new tank, there will be
instrctions included *that say to pre-charge it to the system pressure
and the thread should have been unnecessary.

Harry K

While true Harry... the reason for this thread was two questions that
I as a non plumbing professional posted

"My questions:
Do I just add more air to get to 80 PSI?
Is a small electric tire compressor ok or must it be a hand/tire
pump?"

On Dec 16, 11:49*am, "
wrote:
The amazing thing is that, if it is a new tank, there will be
instrctions included *that say to pre-charge it to the system pressure
and the thread should have been unnecessary.

Harry K

While true Harry... the reason for this thread was two questions that
I as a non plumbing professional posted

"My questions:
Do I just add more air to get to 80 PSI?
Is a small electric tire compressor ok or must it be a hand/tire
pump?"

I don't think either question was answered properly - we all went off
on a tangent.

I also believe you have already fixed it but in case you haven't the
answeers a

Yes, just add air up to the system pressure.
Any source of pressurized air will do.

Harry K