So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

On Nov 7, 9:16�pm, Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

someone tie the neutral to ground ??

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

I don't know but I'm not a home inspector. If that is the best the alleged
"inspector" can tell you, he is not qualified either. Try to get your money
back. IMO, he is a fraud. anyone can stick a tester in a plug and count the
LEDs lit, a pro can give an interpretation.

On Nov 7, 6:16*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

No way to tell with out the use of a meter and the knowledge to
interpret the readings.

Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

Each terminal of an outlet can be hot, open, or grounded. That makes 27
possible combinations.

With the tester I know you don't get all three lights unless the hot
terminal is grounded and neither other terminal is grounded. Both the
neutral and ground may be hot, or one may be open.

In article ,
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

I don't know but I'm not a home inspector. If that is the best the alleged
"inspector" can tell you, he is not qualified either. Try to get your money
back. IMO, he is a fraud. anyone can stick a tester in a plug and count the
LEDs lit, a pro can give an interpretation.

I'm completely satisfied with the inspection and the inspector. He is
about as qualified as they come, and provided a thorough inspection and
a complete, lengthy, photographically documented, report. All for a very
reasonable charge. But thanks for sharing your cynicism.

Home inspectors are *not* electricians, they are not plumbers, they are
not roofers, they are not structural engineers. They do "visual
inspections" that are designed to alert the prospective purchaser to
possible issues that may warrant further investigation by either the
home buyer, or trade professionals in the area of concern.

Obviously you have no knowledge of outlet testers. I have a rudimentary
understanding that they check voltages between all three pins
simultaneously, and give an indication of such common faults as switched
hot and neutral, or open grounds. Of the six "possible" faults, none are
indicated by all three LEDs simultaneously illuminated. That's why I'm
asking the professional electricians of the group to speculate on the
odd indication.

If I were not 300 miles away, I'd take a voltmeter over there myself and
have a look, as well as pull the outlet out to inspect the wiring.

Smitty Two wrote:

So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

floating ground?

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

In article ,
E Z Peaces wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

Each terminal of an outlet can be hot, open, or grounded. That makes 27
possible combinations.

Damn. I'd have to go along with that.


With the tester I know you don't get all three lights unless the hot
terminal is grounded and neither other terminal is grounded. Both the
neutral and ground may be hot, or one may be open.

Hmm, wouldn't that qualify as hot and neutral reversed?

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?
I don't know but I'm not a home inspector. If that is the best the alleged
"inspector" can tell you, he is not qualified either. Try to get your money
back. IMO, he is a fraud. anyone can stick a tester in a plug and count the
LEDs lit, a pro can give an interpretation.

I'm completely satisfied with the inspection and the inspector. He is
about as qualified as they come, and provided a thorough inspection and
a complete, lengthy, photographically documented, report. All for a very
reasonable charge. But thanks for sharing your cynicism.

Home inspectors are *not* electricians, they are not plumbers, they are
not roofers, they are not structural engineers. They do "visual
inspections" that are designed to alert the prospective purchaser to
possible issues that may warrant further investigation by either the
home buyer, or trade professionals in the area of concern.

Obviously you have no knowledge of outlet testers. I have a rudimentary
understanding that they check voltages between all three pins
simultaneously, and give an indication of such common faults as switched
hot and neutral, or open grounds. Of the six "possible" faults, none are
indicated by all three LEDs simultaneously illuminated. That's why I'm
asking the professional electricians of the group to speculate on the
odd indication.

If I were not 300 miles away, I'd take a voltmeter over there myself and
have a look, as well as pull the outlet out to inspect the wiring.
Hmmm,
Why bother hiring an inspector then? I m not blind. You and I can do
that kind of visual inspection. When 4 LEDs are on = result unspecified.

On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:54:06 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
E Z Peaces wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

Each terminal of an outlet can be hot, open, or grounded. That makes 27
possible combinations.

Damn. I'd have to go along with that.


With the tester I know you don't get all three lights unless the hot
terminal is grounded and neither other terminal is grounded. Both the
neutral and ground may be hot, or one may be open.

Hmm, wouldn't that qualify as hot and neutral reversed?

hot and neutral reversed and ground tied to hot neutral perhaps??

CJT wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:

So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment
house in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report
that included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator
is giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.
Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

floating ground?

Hi,
Means no ground, LOL!

Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?
Hi,
All LED on = result unspecified = Needs further test and inspection.

E Z Peaces wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment
house in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report
that included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator
is giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.
Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

Each terminal of an outlet can be hot, open, or grounded. That makes 27
possible combinations.

With the tester I know you don't get all three lights unless the hot
terminal is grounded and neither other terminal is grounded. Both the
neutral and ground may be hot, or one may be open.

In order to detect each of 27 possibilities, this kind of tester uses
capacitive coupling to the person's hand as a ground reference. If the
person's hand is at or near line voltage, a properly wired outlet will
show three lights.

I wonder if the inspector was picking up leakage from something he was
touching, such as the refrigerator. If he was insulted from ground he
wouldn't feel it. The impedance may be to high to be hazardous.

Tony Hwang wrote:
CJT wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment
house in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report
that included a notation that the outlet intended for the
refrigerator is giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All
three lights illuminate.
Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?


floating ground?

Hi,
Means no ground, LOL!

Define "no." Floating ground means there's an indirect path to ground
(e.g. through an appliance).

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Smitty Two wrote:

So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

If it were somehow wired as a 240V outlet you would get all three lights
(usually neon, not LED). Some fault that would put the opposite phase on
the neutral for that circuit could cause that. Presumably if it's for a
refrigerator, it's the only outlet on the circuit. If the wire got mixed
up with a 240V feed for a window A/C outlet, they could have connected
the white to the other phase instead of to the neutral buss.

wrote:
On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:54:06 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
E Z Peaces wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?
Each terminal of an outlet can be hot, open, or grounded. That makes 27
possible combinations.
Damn. I'd have to go along with that.

With the tester I know you don't get all three lights unless the hot
terminal is grounded and neither other terminal is grounded. Both the
neutral and ground may be hot, or one may be open.
Hmm, wouldn't that qualify as hot and neutral reversed?

hot and neutral reversed and ground tied to hot neutral perhaps??

It's easier to imagine that somebody who would switch colors might not
bother with the ground or might not fasten it securely. It's even
easier to imagine that the inspector was picking up electrical leakage.
(I hope my spelling is better this time!)

CJT wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
CJT wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment
house in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report
that included a notation that the outlet intended for the
refrigerator is giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All
three lights illuminate.
Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?


floating ground?

Hi,
Means no ground, LOL!

Define "no." Floating ground means there's an indirect path to ground
(e.g. through an appliance).

Hi,
Physically ground connection is broken. Ever used an adaptor for that? I
used to use it with an o.scope when working on certain electrical load.

In article .com,
"Pete C." wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

If it were somehow wired as a 240V outlet you would get all three lights
(usually neon, not LED).

Thanks for the neon correction. That makes sense.

Some fault that would put the opposite phase on
the neutral for that circuit could cause that. Presumably if it's for a
refrigerator, it's the only outlet on the circuit. If the wire got mixed
up with a 240V feed for a window A/C outlet, they could have connected
the white to the other phase instead of to the neutral buss.

Well, this thing is looking like it isn't going to be solved until I get
back over there with a voltmeter and see what's really going on. That
may not be until T-day week.

In article ,
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 18:16:17 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

In the time it took to post your message you could have opened the box
removed the outlet and checked the wiring.

Yeah, I know how to wire an outlet. Perhaps you missed the part where I
said I live 300 miles away.


Black wire to Gold screw
White wire to Silver screw
Bare or Green wire to Green screw.

If a plug is sloppy in the outlet, replace it.

Then spend $5 on one of those LED testers and test it yourself.

If it's still wrong, check the other end of that cable in the breaker
box. Maybe it's not grounded.

Either way, it's a minor problem. Not a fire hazzard, but it should
be fixed.

Tony Hwang wrote:

CJT wrote:

Tony Hwang wrote:

CJT wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment
house in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report
that included a notation that the outlet intended for the
refrigerator is giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All
three lights illuminate.
Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?



floating ground?

Hi,
Means no ground, LOL!


Define "no." Floating ground means there's an indirect path to ground
(e.g. through an appliance).

Hi,
Physically ground connection is broken. Ever used an adaptor for that? I
used to use it with an o.scope when working on certain electrical load.

A broken/open ground would not yield the symptoms.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

In article .com,
"Pete C." wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

If it were somehow wired as a 240V outlet you would get all three lights
(usually neon, not LED). Some fault that would put the opposite phase on
the neutral for that circuit could cause that. Presumably if it's for a
refrigerator, it's the only outlet on the circuit. If the wire got mixed
up with a 240V feed for a window A/C outlet, they could have connected
the white to the other phase instead of to the neutral buss.

All right, I've studied this some, now. Here's a pic of a similar tester
I found online.

http://www.professionalequipment.com/enlargeproduct.asp?productid=7918

By my reasoning, based on the chart shown:

The left neon bulb indicates voltage between ground and neutral.

The middle bulb indicates voltage between hot and neutral.

The right bulb indicates voltage between hot and ground.

Anyone care to confirm my reasoning?

I do not understand how all three could be true simultaneously.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article .com,
"Pete C." wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?
If it were somehow wired as a 240V outlet you would get all three lights
(usually neon, not LED). Some fault that would put the opposite phase on
the neutral for that circuit could cause that. Presumably if it's for a
refrigerator, it's the only outlet on the circuit. If the wire got mixed
up with a 240V feed for a window A/C outlet, they could have connected
the white to the other phase instead of to the neutral buss.

All right, I've studied this some, now. Here's a pic of a similar tester
I found online.

http://www.professionalequipment.com/enlargeproduct.asp?productid=7918

By my reasoning, based on the chart shown:

The left neon bulb indicates voltage between ground and neutral.

The middle bulb indicates voltage between hot and neutral.

The right bulb indicates voltage between hot and ground.

Anyone care to confirm my reasoning?

I do not understand how all three could be true simultaneously.

Now I see. If instead of being grounded at the breaker box, the white
wire were hooked to the other side of 240, the three terminals of the
outlet would be at different voltages and the three neon bulbs would
light. If nobody has plugged a refrigerator in since the outlet was
wired, that seems likely.

There is a kind of tester that can show three lights from a 120V outlet,
but if the inspector owned one of those, he could probably interpret the
lights.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

Bigger issue is why would you ever 1. have a gf 300 miles away and 2. if you
do, why would you buy a house with her?

If she lives that far away, you don't really know her--- and what she does
when you're not around. If you don't care enough for her to marry her, why
would you jointly own property and take on a 30 year mortgage?

In article ,
"Sharp Dressed Man" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

Bigger issue is why would you ever 1. have a gf 300 miles away and 2. if you
do, why would you buy a house with her?

If she lives that far away, you don't really know her--- and what she does
when you're not around. If you don't care enough for her to marry her, why
would you jointly own property and take on a 30 year mortgage?

Thanks, Dr. Laura. I wonder how I managed to live my life all these
years without your wise counsel. I'll remember to cross post future
queries to alt.i.gave.my.sister.syphilis so you'll be sure to see them.

In article ,
E Z Peaces wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article .com,
"Pete C." wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?
If it were somehow wired as a 240V outlet you would get all three lights
(usually neon, not LED). Some fault that would put the opposite phase on
the neutral for that circuit could cause that. Presumably if it's for a
refrigerator, it's the only outlet on the circuit. If the wire got mixed
up with a 240V feed for a window A/C outlet, they could have connected
the white to the other phase instead of to the neutral buss.

All right, I've studied this some, now. Here's a pic of a similar tester
I found online.

http://www.professionalequipment.com/enlargeproduct.asp?productid=7918

By my reasoning, based on the chart shown:

The left neon bulb indicates voltage between ground and neutral.

The middle bulb indicates voltage between hot and neutral.

The right bulb indicates voltage between hot and ground.

Anyone care to confirm my reasoning?

I do not understand how all three could be true simultaneously.

Now I see. If instead of being grounded at the breaker box, the white
wire were hooked to the other side of 240, the three terminals of the
outlet would be at different voltages and the three neon bulbs would
light. If nobody has plugged a refrigerator in since the outlet was
wired, that seems likely.

There is a kind of tester that can show three lights from a 120V outlet,
but if the inspector owned one of those, he could probably interpret the
lights.

I was having some trouble visualizing this when Pete brought it up, but
now that I understand how the tester works, and since you concur with
his logic, I'm giving my brain another opportunity to work on it. So
according to my back of the envelope sketch of what I believe you're
both postulating, that would put 240 across the hot and neutral, correct?

Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
E Z Peaces wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article .com,
"Pete C." wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?
If it were somehow wired as a 240V outlet you would get all three lights
(usually neon, not LED). Some fault that would put the opposite phase on
the neutral for that circuit could cause that. Presumably if it's for a
refrigerator, it's the only outlet on the circuit. If the wire got mixed
up with a 240V feed for a window A/C outlet, they could have connected
the white to the other phase instead of to the neutral buss.

All right, I've studied this some, now. Here's a pic of a similar tester
I found online.

http://www.professionalequipment.com/enlargeproduct.asp?productid=7918

By my reasoning, based on the chart shown:

The left neon bulb indicates voltage between ground and neutral.

The middle bulb indicates voltage between hot and neutral.

The right bulb indicates voltage between hot and ground.

Anyone care to confirm my reasoning?

I do not understand how all three could be true simultaneously.

Now I see. If instead of being grounded at the breaker box, the white
wire were hooked to the other side of 240, the three terminals of the
outlet would be at different voltages and the three neon bulbs would
light. If nobody has plugged a refrigerator in since the outlet was
wired, that seems likely.

There is a kind of tester that can show three lights from a 120V outlet,
but if the inspector owned one of those, he could probably interpret the
lights.

I was having some trouble visualizing this when Pete brought it up, but
now that I understand how the tester works, and since you concur with
his logic, I'm giving my brain another opportunity to work on it. So
according to my back of the envelope sketch of what I believe you're
both postulating, that would put 240 across the hot and neutral, correct?

Yes, and it would be bad if a refrigerator, at least a US model were
plugged in.

Since 240V outlets for window A/C units are not uncommon, it seems
possible that the romex for one of those could have been mixed up with
one for the refrigerator.

Another possibility is a previous occupant had a 240V UK refrigerator
connected. Since UK receptacles aren't readily available in the US they
may have hacked it with a regular US receptacle, or in remodeling
someone could have change to a regular US receptacle and not checked the
wiring.

On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:10:33 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:

E Z Peaces wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment
house in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report
that included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator
is giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.
Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

Each terminal of an outlet can be hot, open, or grounded. That makes 27
possible combinations.

With the tester I know you don't get all three lights unless the hot
terminal is grounded and neither other terminal is grounded. Both the
neutral and ground may be hot, or one may be open.

In order to detect each of 27 possibilities, this kind of tester uses
capacitive coupling to the person's hand as a ground reference. If the
person's hand is at or near line voltage, a properly wired outlet will
show three lights.

I wonder if the inspector was picking up leakage from something he was
touching, such as the refrigerator. If he was insulted from ground he
wouldn't feel it. The impedance may be to high to be hazardous.


Neon or LED tester? The old neon testers could do this - but the led
testers are NOT capacitively linked and can not display this anomoly.
Don't think the neon 3 lamp tester has been sold in Canada or the USA
in the last 10 or more years.

On Nov 7, 9:16�pm, Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

hire a local electrician to take a look.

were you there physically for the home inspection?

Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

This happens when there is an open neutral elsewhere in the circuit AND
something else is connected to the same circuit and turned on. A
disconnected neutral at the panel would do this but the disconnect could
be anywhere along the line. The neutral between the outlet and other
load(s) would have to be intact.

Voltage is fed back though the other load, say the filament of a light
bulb, into the floating neutral and fooling the tester. The light would
be switched on but not glowing.

Did the inspector say something else was not working?

To get more accurate reading you would have to disconnect all other
loads from the circuit. Don't forget any direct wired appliances or
hidden things like a door bell transformer.

Note that using a volt meter in this case will give you the same crazy
readings. You will see 120V from hot to ground AND 120V from neutral to
ground. The 120V on neutral will go away when the other load(s) is
removed.

Kevin

wrote:

Neon or LED tester? The old neon testers could do this - but the led
testers are NOT capacitively linked and can not display this anomoly.
Don't think the neon 3 lamp tester has been sold in Canada or the USA
in the last 10 or more years.

The neon testers are most certainly still sold in the US.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2008 09:36:13 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

Neon or LED tester? The old neon testers could do this - but the led
testers are NOT capacitively linked and can not display this anomoly.
Don't think the neon 3 lamp tester has been sold in Canada or the USA
in the last 10 or more years.

The neon testers are most certainly still sold in the US.
Up here we get the single bulb neons, virtually everything else is
led.

E Z Peaces wrote:
It's easier to imagine that somebody who would switch colors might not
bother with the ground or might not fasten it securely. It's even
easier to imagine that the inspector was picking up electrical
leakage. (I hope my spelling is better this time!)

In-line spell chequer

http://tinyspell.m6.net/

wrote:


Neon or LED tester? The old neon testers could do this - but the led
testers are NOT capacitively linked and can not display this anomoly.
Don't think the neon 3 lamp tester has been sold in Canada or the USA
in the last 10 or more years.

But who buys a new hammer every decade?

If he's been in business for ten years, and his tester still works...

On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 10:36:42 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:


Neon or LED tester? The old neon testers could do this - but the led
testers are NOT capacitively linked and can not display this anomoly.
Don't think the neon 3 lamp tester has been sold in Canada or the USA
in the last 10 or more years.

But who buys a new hammer every decade?

If he's been in business for ten years, and his tester still works...

My newest one is over 15 years old, and IT is an LED unit. When I said
at least 10 years, I thought I was being conservative.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2008 11:43:10 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 18:16:17 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?


Bad CFCI, and an attached downstream load. Try tripping the GFCI and
resetting it a few times. They disconnect the neutral and it is not
closing properly. Sometimes just cycling it will clean the contacts.
If not, replace it.


If the house is to code, none of these explanations really hits it,
because there CAN NOT BE another load on the line, as refigerator plug
needs to be a separate circuit.

I know, in my hose it is not either (has an external receptacle on the
same line) but the wiring has all been there for 35 years.

HeyBub wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
It's easier to imagine that somebody who would switch colors might not
bother with the ground or might not fasten it securely. It's even
easier to imagine that the inspector was picking up electrical
leakage. (I hope my spelling is better this time!)

In-line spell chequer

http://tinyspell.m6.net/


I use WordWeb Free version cuz eye caynt spel.

http://wordweb.info/free/

TDD

In article
,
" wrote:

On Nov 7, 9:16?pm, Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment house
in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report that
included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator is
giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.

Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?

hire a local electrician to take a look.

were you there physically for the home inspection?

If I knew a local guy, I might do that. (I might take a crap shoot from
the phone book, but I hate doing that.) Not so much for this one issue,
but to give the whole electrical system a look to see whether this is
only the tip of the iceberg. There are open grounds in one bedroom, and
uncovered junction boxes in the attic and basement crawl spaces.

I was not there for the inspection.

The house was built in 1930 and a substantial addition and total
interior renovation finished about 2 yrs. ago, just before the owner
defaulted. It is unclear whether he lived in the house after finishing
the remodel. When we first saw it a year ago, the house was vacant. A
fridge was present, but may not have been operational.

The inspector was the city's chief building inspector for 15 yrs., and
he called his old pals to confirm that the remodel was drawn by
professional architects, and permitted and inspected at the time it was
done, which gives me some confidence that it was done at least mostly
correctly.

wrote:
On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:10:33 -0500, E Z Peaces
wrote:

E Z Peaces wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
So the g.f. and I are chipping in on a newly remodeled investment
house in her city, 300 miles from me. Home inspector sent a report
that included a notation that the outlet intended for the refrigerator
is giving an odd indication on the 3-LED tester: All three lights
illuminate.
Any speculation on what could cause this unlisted and presumably
improbable test result?
Each terminal of an outlet can be hot, open, or grounded. That makes 27
possible combinations.

With the tester I know you don't get all three lights unless the hot
terminal is grounded and neither other terminal is grounded. Both the
neutral and ground may be hot, or one may be open.
In order to detect each of 27 possibilities, this kind of tester uses
capacitive coupling to the person's hand as a ground reference. If the
person's hand is at or near line voltage, a properly wired outlet will
show three lights.

I wonder if the inspector was picking up leakage from something he was
touching, such as the refrigerator. If he was insulted from ground he
wouldn't feel it. The impedance may be to high to be hazardous.


Neon or LED tester? The old neon testers could do this - but the led
testers are NOT capacitively linked and can not display this anomoly.
Don't think the neon 3 lamp tester has been sold in Canada or the USA
in the last 10 or more years.

The one I have in mind was made by Communications Technology Corporation
in the 1970s. CTC still has offices in several cities, so their tester
may still be on the market. Richard R. Spear, who passed away this
year, invented it.

The lights are two neon lamps (white and amber) and a red LED. The
tester also uses a momentary switch, a relay, a transformer, a circuit
breaker, and lots of diodes. It uses a power cord.

If an outlet is wired properly, you get red and white when you plug in
the cord and white alone when you press the button. A buzzer will tell
you if impedance at the ground terminal is above a set threshold.

In each of 12 possible faults where hot and ground are present, the
pattern of lights will tell you what's what. That makes 13 situations
the lights can identify.

With 120VAC, a simpler tester's lights can show only 6 possibilities.
That could be deadly if for example the hot terminal were grounded and
the other two were hot. The simpler tester would say it was okay.

With 120VAC, there are 14 possible faults where a hot and a ground won't
be present. Neither kind of tester will show any lights, so neither
will specify what's wrong.

HeyBub wrote:
E Z Peaces wrote:
It's easier to imagine that somebody who would switch colors might not
bother with the ground or might not fasten it securely. It's even
easier to imagine that the inspector was picking up electrical
leakage. (I hope my spelling is better this time!)

In-line spell chequer

http://tinyspell.m6.net/


Theirs know raisin too insulate me about my smelling. Ha-ha, you
spelled checker wrong. I no I'm write because I use a checker.

floating ground?

Hi,
Means no ground, LOL!

That's EXACTLY what it means. The "ground" is loosly coupled to physical
proximity to both neutral and hot wires.

IOW: there definitely is some wiring for the ground but it got disconnect
(if it every was connected in the first place) somewhere before it got to
the CB box.