In reading a few posts here, the H/N reversed readout seems not all
that uncommon (using a 3 bulb tester). But in my situation no
appliances work from this outlet, which seems atypical of the posts
I've seem, which seem to say things will work, just un-safely. The
same situation exists at (what I expect) is the next wall outlet along
this circuit.

Could the 'fix' for these outlets be something other than reversing
the connections in the box?

I should also add that I think the end of this circuit is at a never-
functioned ceiling light outlet.

House built 1974. One owner.

Thanks. I know this is very brief, just keeping it simple to start.

Brian

Those testers are not reliable in open circuit situations. If you use a lamp
in a pigtail socket, test between the ground and hot(small slot), you should
get a light. Then test between the hot and neutral, you should get a light.
If you didn't get the first light, but did get the second, your hot and
neutrals are reversed, otherwise, you have an open circuit to one or the
other conductors. As outlet wiring is typically daisy chained, you want to
look in the last working outlet on the chain or the first dead outlet , for
the loose connection.



"brian" wrote in message
oups.com...
In reading a few posts here, the H/N reversed readout seems not all
that uncommon (using a 3 bulb tester). But in my situation no
appliances work from this outlet, which seems atypical of the posts
I've seem, which seem to say things will work, just un-safely. The
same situation exists at (what I expect) is the next wall outlet along
this circuit.

Could the 'fix' for these outlets be something other than reversing
the connections in the box?

I should also add that I think the end of this circuit is at a never-
functioned ceiling light outlet.

House built 1974. One owner.

Thanks. I know this is very brief, just keeping it simple to start.

Brian

Thanks,

I will check those tests later today. I have not changed any
connections yet.


On Nov 4, 8:06 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Those testers are not reliable in open circuit situations. If you use a lamp
in a pigtail socket, test between the ground and hot(small slot), you should
get a light. Then test between the hot and neutral, you should get a light.
If you didn't get the first light, but did get the second, your hot and
neutrals are reversed, otherwise, you have an open circuit to one or the
other conductors. As outlet wiring is typically daisy chained, you want to
look in the last working outlet on the chain or the first dead outlet , for
the loose connection.

"brian" wrote in message

oups.com...

In reading a few posts here, the H/N reversed readout seems not all
that uncommon (using a 3 bulb tester). But in my situation no
appliances work from this outlet, which seems atypical of the posts
I've seem, which seem to say things will work, just un-safely. The
same situation exists at (what I expect) is the next wall outlet along
this circuit.

Could the 'fix' for these outlets be something other than reversing
the connections in the box?

I should also add that I think the end of this circuit is at a never-
functioned ceiling light outlet.

House built 1974. One owner.

Thanks. I know this is very brief, just keeping it simple to start.

Brian

It definitely sounds like an open circuit, but until you do the test, you
won't know if it's the hot or the neutral leg that's open. You will probably
find a badly back stabbed outlet is the culprit


"brian" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks,

I will check those tests later today. I have not changed any
connections yet.


On Nov 4, 8:06 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Those testers are not reliable in open circuit situations. If you use a
lamp
in a pigtail socket, test between the ground and hot(small slot), you
should
get a light. Then test between the hot and neutral, you should get a
light.
If you didn't get the first light, but did get the second, your hot and
neutrals are reversed, otherwise, you have an open circuit to one or the
other conductors. As outlet wiring is typically daisy chained, you want
to
look in the last working outlet on the chain or the first dead outlet ,
for
the loose connection.

"brian" wrote in message

oups.com...

In reading a few posts here, the H/N reversed readout seems not all
that uncommon (using a 3 bulb tester). But in my situation no
appliances work from this outlet, which seems atypical of the posts
I've seem, which seem to say things will work, just un-safely. The
same situation exists at (what I expect) is the next wall outlet along
this circuit.

Could the 'fix' for these outlets be something other than reversing
the connections in the box?

I should also add that I think the end of this circuit is at a never-
functioned ceiling light outlet.

House built 1974. One owner.

Thanks. I know this is very brief, just keeping it simple to start.

Brian

On Nov 4, 12:15 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
It definitely sounds like an open circuit, but until you do the test, you
won't know if it's the hot or the neutral leg that's open. You will probably
find a badly back stabbed outlet is the culprit

"brian" wrote in message

oups.com...



Thanks,

I will check those tests later today. I have not changed any
connections yet.

On Nov 4, 8:06 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Those testers are not reliable in open circuit situations. If you use a
lamp
in a pigtail socket, test between the ground and hot(small slot), you
should
get a light. Then test between the hot and neutral, you should get a
light.
If you didn't get the first light, but did get the second, your hot and
neutrals are reversed, otherwise, you have an open circuit to one or the
other conductors. As outlet wiring is typically daisy chained, you want
to
look in the last working outlet on the chain or the first dead outlet ,
for
the loose connection.

"brian" wrote in message

groups.com...

In reading a few posts here, the H/N reversed readout seems not all
that uncommon (using a 3 bulb tester). But in my situation no
appliances work from this outlet, which seems atypical of the posts
I've seem, which seem to say things will work, just un-safely. The
same situation exists at (what I expect) is the next wall outlet along
this circuit.

Could the 'fix' for these outlets be something other than reversing
the connections in the box?

I should also add that I think the end of this circuit is at a never-
functioned ceiling light outlet.

House built 1974. One owner.

Thanks. I know this is very brief, just keeping it simple to start.

Brian- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Remembering that quite often (especially with those back stabbed
outlets but also with other types of duplex outlets) the current will
likely go 'through' each outlet to the next one in the chain of six to
ten on that 'run'. Not very many domestically wired duplex outlets
have seen are pigtailed off the live and neutral in the back of each
metal duplex box.

On Nov 4, 10:15 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
It definitely sounds like an open circuit, but until you do the test, you
won't know if it's the hot or the neutral leg that's open. You will probably
find a badly back stabbed outlet is the culprit

"brian" wrote in message

oups.com...

Thanks,

I will check those tests later today. I have not changed any
connections yet.

On Nov 4, 8:06 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Those testers are not reliable in open circuit situations. If you use a
lamp
in a pigtail socket, test between the ground and hot(small slot), you
should
get a light. Then test between the hot and neutral, you should get a
light.
If you didn't get the first light, but did get the second, your hot and
neutrals are reversed, otherwise, you have an open circuit to one or the
other conductors. As outlet wiring is typically daisy chained, you want
to
look in the last working outlet on the chain or the first dead outlet ,
for
the loose connection.

"brian" wrote in message

groups.com...

In reading a few posts here, the H/N reversed readout seems not all
that uncommon (using a 3 bulb tester). But in my situation no
appliances work from this outlet, which seems atypical of the posts
I've seem, which seem to say things will work, just un-safely. The
same situation exists at (what I expect) is the next wall outlet along
this circuit.

Could the 'fix' for these outlets be something other than reversing
the connections in the box?

I should also add that I think the end of this circuit is at a never-
functioned ceiling light outlet.

House built 1974. One owner.

Thanks. I know this is very brief, just keeping it simple to start.

Brian

I ran the test with the lamp trster.

I got a light between the hot and neutral, but no light between the
ground and hot.

What worries me is that other posters say they get the same error
message, yet the outlet still allows appliances to work from it, but
un safely. Where these two outlet boxes I have don't allow any
appliances or light to work.

Is that some thing I should be unduly worried about before I attempt
to look for the 'bad' connection?

Thanks

In article . com,
brian wrote:

On Nov 4, 10:15 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
It definitely sounds like an open circuit, but until you do the test, you
won't know if it's the hot or the neutral leg that's open. You will probably
find a badly back stabbed outlet is the culprit

"brian" wrote in message

oups.com...

Thanks,

I will check those tests later today. I have not changed any
connections yet.

On Nov 4, 8:06 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Those testers are not reliable in open circuit situations. If you use a
lamp
in a pigtail socket, test between the ground and hot(small slot), you
should
get a light. Then test between the hot and neutral, you should get a
light.
If you didn't get the first light, but did get the second, your hot and
neutrals are reversed, otherwise, you have an open circuit to one or the
other conductors. As outlet wiring is typically daisy chained, you want
to
look in the last working outlet on the chain or the first dead outlet ,
for
the loose connection.

"brian" wrote in message

groups.com...

In reading a few posts here, the H/N reversed readout seems not all
that uncommon (using a 3 bulb tester). But in my situation no
appliances work from this outlet, which seems atypical of the posts
I've seem, which seem to say things will work, just un-safely. The
same situation exists at (what I expect) is the next wall outlet along
this circuit.

Could the 'fix' for these outlets be something other than reversing
the connections in the box?

I should also add that I think the end of this circuit is at a never-
functioned ceiling light outlet.

House built 1974. One owner.

Thanks. I know this is very brief, just keeping it simple to start.

Brian

I ran the test with the lamp trster.

I got a light between the hot and neutral, but no light between the
ground and hot.

What worries me is that other posters say they get the same error
message, yet the outlet still allows appliances to work from it, but
un safely. Where these two outlet boxes I have don't allow any
appliances or light to work.

Is that some thing I should be unduly worried about before I attempt
to look for the 'bad' connection?

Thanks

I don't think you should be unduly worried about anything. Worrying
won't solve the problem. Did you do the ground / neutral lamp test?
Results?

On Nov 4, 12:31 pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article . com,



brian wrote:
On Nov 4, 10:15 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
It definitely sounds like an open circuit, but until you do the test, you
won't know if it's the hot or the neutral leg that's open. You will probably
find a badly back stabbed outlet is the culprit

"brian" wrote in message

roups.com...

Thanks,

I will check those tests later today. I have not changed any
connections yet.

On Nov 4, 8:06 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Those testers are not reliable in open circuit situations. If you use a
lamp
in a pigtail socket, test between the ground and hot(small slot), you
should
get a light. Then test between the hot and neutral, you should get a
light.
If you didn't get the first light, but did get the second, your hot and
neutrals are reversed, otherwise, you have an open circuit to one or the
other conductors. As outlet wiring is typically daisy chained, you want
to
look in the last working outlet on the chain or the first dead outlet ,
for
the loose connection.

"brian" wrote in message

groups.com...

In reading a few posts here, the H/N reversed readout seems not all
that uncommon (using a 3 bulb tester). But in my situation no
appliances work from this outlet, which seems atypical of the posts
I've seem, which seem to say things will work, just un-safely. The
same situation exists at (what I expect) is the next wall outlet along
this circuit.

Could the 'fix' for these outlets be something other than reversing
the connections in the box?

I should also add that I think the end of this circuit is at a never-
functioned ceiling light outlet.

House built 1974. One owner.

Thanks. I know this is very brief, just keeping it simple to start.

Brian

I ran the test with the lamp trster.

I got a light between the hot and neutral, but no light between the
ground and hot.

What worries me is that other posters say they get the same error
message, yet the outlet still allows appliances to work from it, but
un safely. Where these two outlet boxes I have don't allow any
appliances or light to work.

Is that some thing I should be unduly worried about before I attempt
to look for the 'bad' connection?

Thanks

I don't think you should be unduly worried about anything. Worrying
won't solve the problem. Did you do the ground / neutral lamp test?
Results?

ground-neutral gave a light.

brian wrote:
On Nov 4, 12:31 pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article . com,



brian wrote:
On Nov 4, 10:15 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
It definitely sounds like an open circuit, but until you do the test, you
won't know if it's the hot or the neutral leg that's open. You will probably
find a badly back stabbed outlet is the culprit
"brian" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks,
I will check those tests later today. I have not changed any
connections yet.
On Nov 4, 8:06 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Those testers are not reliable in open circuit situations. If you use a
lamp
in a pigtail socket, test between the ground and hot(small slot), you
should
get a light. Then test between the hot and neutral, you should get a
light.
If you didn't get the first light, but did get the second, your hot and
neutrals are reversed, otherwise, you have an open circuit to one or the
other conductors. As outlet wiring is typically daisy chained, you want
to
look in the last working outlet on the chain or the first dead outlet ,
for
the loose connection.
"brian" wrote in message
oups.com...
In reading a few posts here, the H/N reversed readout seems not all
that uncommon (using a 3 bulb tester). But in my situation no
appliances work from this outlet, which seems atypical of the posts
I've seem, which seem to say things will work, just un-safely. The
same situation exists at (what I expect) is the next wall outlet along
this circuit.
Could the 'fix' for these outlets be something other than reversing
the connections in the box?
I should also add that I think the end of this circuit is at a never-
functioned ceiling light outlet.
House built 1974. One owner.
Thanks. I know this is very brief, just keeping it simple to start.
Brian
I ran the test with the lamp trster.
I got a light between the hot and neutral, but no light between the
ground and hot.
What worries me is that other posters say they get the same error
message, yet the outlet still allows appliances to work from it, but
un safely. Where these two outlet boxes I have don't allow any
appliances or light to work.
Is that some thing I should be unduly worried about before I attempt
to look for the 'bad' connection?
Thanks
I don't think you should be unduly worried about anything. Worrying
won't solve the problem. Did you do the ground / neutral lamp test?
Results?

ground-neutral gave a light.

Here's what you've said...

H --- --- ---
V |
N --- --- 0
V |
G --- --- ---


If that's correct, you've got H and G as the two "hots" of a 220 w/ the
N as the return. Hence, the finding of nothing between the H and G.

That's not good (tm)...

--

In article .com,
brian wrote:

On Nov 4, 12:31 pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article . com,



brian wrote:
On Nov 4, 10:15 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
It definitely sounds like an open circuit, but until you do the test,
you
won't know if it's the hot or the neutral leg that's open. You will
probably
find a badly back stabbed outlet is the culprit

"brian" wrote in message

roups.com...

Thanks,

I will check those tests later today. I have not changed any
connections yet.

On Nov 4, 8:06 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Those testers are not reliable in open circuit situations. If you
use a
lamp
in a pigtail socket, test between the ground and hot(small slot),
you
should
get a light. Then test between the hot and neutral, you should get a
light.
If you didn't get the first light, but did get the second, your hot
and
neutrals are reversed, otherwise, you have an open circuit to one or
the
other conductors. As outlet wiring is typically daisy chained, you
want
to
look in the last working outlet on the chain or the first dead
outlet ,
for
the loose connection.

"brian" wrote in message

groups.com...

In reading a few posts here, the H/N reversed readout seems not
all
that uncommon (using a 3 bulb tester). But in my situation no
appliances work from this outlet, which seems atypical of the
posts
I've seem, which seem to say things will work, just un-safely. The
same situation exists at (what I expect) is the next wall outlet
along
this circuit.

Could the 'fix' for these outlets be something other than
reversing
the connections in the box?

I should also add that I think the end of this circuit is at a
never-
functioned ceiling light outlet.

House built 1974. One owner.

Thanks. I know this is very brief, just keeping it simple to
start.

Brian

I ran the test with the lamp trster.

I got a light between the hot and neutral, but no light between the
ground and hot.

What worries me is that other posters say they get the same error
message, yet the outlet still allows appliances to work from it, but
un safely. Where these two outlet boxes I have don't allow any
appliances or light to work.

Is that some thing I should be unduly worried about before I attempt
to look for the 'bad' connection?

Thanks

I don't think you should be unduly worried about anything. Worrying
won't solve the problem. Did you do the ground / neutral lamp test?
Results?

ground-neutral gave a light.

Well then, your hot and neutral are reversed, as someone said. That in
itself could be a safety issue, but shouldn't stop the outlet from
working. If it powers your test lamp, it should power a regular lamp;
that's odd. Time to take it apart and figure out what's going on inside.
Reversed wires somewhere, and most likely a loose connection, too.

If ground to neutral gave a light, it indicates an open neutral. Kill the
power to the circuit, confirm it's off, then open the last working outlet
and the first dead outlet on the string, and check all connections



"brian" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Nov 4, 12:31 pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article . com,



brian wrote:
On Nov 4, 10:15 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
It definitely sounds like an open circuit, but until you do the test,
you
won't know if it's the hot or the neutral leg that's open. You will
probably
find a badly back stabbed outlet is the culprit

"brian" wrote in message

roups.com...

Thanks,

I will check those tests later today. I have not changed any
connections yet.

On Nov 4, 8:06 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Those testers are not reliable in open circuit situations. If you
use a
lamp
in a pigtail socket, test between the ground and hot(small slot),
you
should
get a light. Then test between the hot and neutral, you should get
a
light.
If you didn't get the first light, but did get the second, your
hot and
neutrals are reversed, otherwise, you have an open circuit to one
or the
other conductors. As outlet wiring is typically daisy chained, you
want
to
look in the last working outlet on the chain or the first dead
outlet ,
for
the loose connection.

"brian" wrote in message

groups.com...

In reading a few posts here, the H/N reversed readout seems not
all
that uncommon (using a 3 bulb tester). But in my situation no
appliances work from this outlet, which seems atypical of the
posts
I've seem, which seem to say things will work, just un-safely.
The
same situation exists at (what I expect) is the next wall outlet
along
this circuit.

Could the 'fix' for these outlets be something other than
reversing
the connections in the box?

I should also add that I think the end of this circuit is at a
never-
functioned ceiling light outlet.

House built 1974. One owner.

Thanks. I know this is very brief, just keeping it simple to
start.

Brian

I ran the test with the lamp trster.

I got a light between the hot and neutral, but no light between the
ground and hot.

What worries me is that other posters say they get the same error
message, yet the outlet still allows appliances to work from it, but
un safely. Where these two outlet boxes I have don't allow any
appliances or light to work.

Is that some thing I should be unduly worried about before I attempt
to look for the 'bad' connection?

Thanks

I don't think you should be unduly worried about anything. Worrying
won't solve the problem. Did you do the ground / neutral lamp test?
Results?

ground-neutral gave a light.

On Nov 4, 12:49 pm, dpb wrote:
brian wrote:
On Nov 4, 12:31 pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article . com,

brian wrote:
On Nov 4, 10:15 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
It definitely sounds like an open circuit, but until you do the test, you
won't know if it's the hot or the neutral leg that's open. You will probably
find a badly back stabbed outlet is the culprit
"brian" wrote in message
legroups.com...
Thanks,
I will check those tests later today. I have not changed any
connections yet.
On Nov 4, 8:06 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Those testers are not reliable in open circuit situations. If you use a
lamp
in a pigtail socket, test between the ground and hot(small slot), you
should
get a light. Then test between the hot and neutral, you should get a
light.
If you didn't get the first light, but did get the second, your hot and
neutrals are reversed, otherwise, you have an open circuit to one or the
other conductors. As outlet wiring is typically daisy chained, you want
to
look in the last working outlet on the chain or the first dead outlet ,
for
the loose connection.
"brian" wrote in message
oglegroups.com...
In reading a few posts here, the H/N reversed readout seems not all
that uncommon (using a 3 bulb tester). But in my situation no
appliances work from this outlet, which seems atypical of the posts
I've seem, which seem to say things will work, just un-safely. The
same situation exists at (what I expect) is the next wall outlet along
this circuit.
Could the 'fix' for these outlets be something other than reversing
the connections in the box?
I should also add that I think the end of this circuit is at a never-
functioned ceiling light outlet.
House built 1974. One owner.
Thanks. I know this is very brief, just keeping it simple to start.
Brian
I ran the test with the lamp trster.
I got a light between the hot and neutral, but no light between the
ground and hot.
What worries me is that other posters say they get the same error
message, yet the outlet still allows appliances to work from it, but
un safely. Where these two outlet boxes I have don't allow any
appliances or light to work.
Is that some thing I should be unduly worried about before I attempt
to look for the 'bad' connection?
Thanks
I don't think you should be unduly worried about anything. Worrying
won't solve the problem. Did you do the ground / neutral lamp test?
Results?

ground-neutral gave a light.

Here's what you've said...

H --- --- ---
V |
N --- --- 0
V |
G --- --- ---

If that's correct, you've got H and G as the two "hots" of a 220 w/ the
N as the return. Hence, the finding of nothing between the H and G.

That's not good (tm)...

--

Yes, these outlets have never worked since house was built in 1974.

here is what i found so far

1-a 3 light tester indicated hot/neutral reversed
2-hot-neutral gave a light
3-hot-ground gave no light
4-neutral=ground gave a light.

The one remaining outlet on this run reads the same way.

brian wrote:
....

Yes, these outlets have never worked since house was built in 1974.
....

So, it's time to quit measuring and start fixing...

Cut these off at the breaker and check. I'm thinking it's possible
there was a mis-wiring originally where the two hots of two circuits got
crossed to the neutral of an extension -- or, somebody added on and got
the wrong one.

It's possible you'll find it takes two breakers to "kill" both hot wires
if I'm right...

--

An open neutral will indicate power at both the hot and the neutral, if
anything on the circuit is connected. Anything plugged into the outlet won't
work properly as it is in series with other things on the circuit, however a
test light between the hot and neutral terminals will light



"dpb" wrote in message ...
brian wrote:
...

Yes, these outlets have never worked since house was built in 1974.
...

So, it's time to quit measuring and start fixing...

Cut these off at the breaker and check. I'm thinking it's possible there
was a mis-wiring originally where the two hots of two circuits got crossed
to the neutral of an extension -- or, somebody added on and got the wrong
one.

It's possible you'll find it takes two breakers to "kill" both hot wires
if I'm right...

--

RBM wrote:
An open neutral will indicate power at both the hot and the neutral, if
anything on the circuit is connected. Anything plugged into the outlet won't
work properly as it is in series with other things on the circuit, however a
test light between the hot and neutral terminals will light

Not if there's any sizable load...

--

On Nov 4, 1:34 pm, dpb wrote:
brian wrote:

...

Yes, these outlets have never worked since house was built in 1974.

...

So, it's time to quit measuring and start fixing...

Cut these off at the breaker and check. I'm thinking it's possible
there was a mis-wiring originally where the two hots of two circuits got
crossed to the neutral of an extension -- or, somebody added on and got
the wrong one.

It's possible you'll find it takes two breakers to "kill" both hot wires
if I'm right...

--

I am thinking there was a mis-wiring myself when the house was built
in 1974.

In tracing down what the breaker (15 Amp) serves, I found what seemed
to me as a long run off of this one breaker.

It supplies: (at least) 2 ceiling outlets in a storage room, a ceiling
outlet in a closet, one hall outlet, 2 ceiling outlets in a hallway, 3
wall outlets in one bedroom, a ceiling outlet in another closet,
vanity lighting outlet in a bath (maybe a wall outlet and a small in-
wall electric radiant heater w/fan, maybe ceiling exhaust fan in the
bath too), one other wall outlet in kitchen. These rooms are adjacent
but cover a lot of turf.

I was wondering if these two non functioning outlets might indeed be
connected somehow to two circuits. I still haven't even opened an
outlet yet. When I shut off the one known breaker to the two bad
outlets (non-functioning) it seems to have killed the juice as no lamp
was lit on the test lamp.

Makes me think it would be nice if after the wiring was run in a
house, before drywall hung, photos (or now a video) of every wall
would be taken. It would sure be convenient to aid following the
wiring.... I know, I'm dreamin'.