There is surprisingly little info on water softeners on Google. With most
water sources being on the hard side, I would expect a great deal of info on
ways to soften water. There is a very large number of websites which pitch
obvious frauds at high prices, such as magnetic water softeners and "ion"
softeners. Never seen anything like it.

Anyway, I would like to install a real "salt-type" water softener to combat
our hard water. Home Depot only sells a GE miniature water softener for $
449, Lowes sells a Whirlpool for $ 427. That's all in the local area (San
Diego).

The only other reputable looking brand that I could find on the web is the
Fleck 5600 series of water softeners. However, there is no factory website
for this brand.

My plumber offered to replace my old, broken down softener with a Fleck for
$ 2,050, which seems excessive, considering that the unit costs only about $
400. (Very little plumbing adjustment required.) Another rip-off.

Are fewer people using/installing water softeners? Maybe I can draw on the
experience on other people in this Group?

Thanks for any input.

--
Walter
www.rationality.net
-

On Aug 10, 2:12*pm, "Walter R." wrote:
There is surprisingly little info on water softeners on Google. With most
water sources being on the hard side, I would expect a great deal of info on
ways to soften water. There is a very large number of websites which pitch
obvious frauds at high prices, such as magnetic water softeners and "ion"
softeners. Never seen anything like it.

Anyway, I would like to install a real "salt-type" water softener to combat
our hard water. Home Depot only sells a GE miniature water softener for $
449, Lowes sells a Whirlpool for $ 427. That's all in the local area (San
Diego).

The only other reputable looking brand that I could find on the web is the
Fleck 5600 series of water softeners. However, there is no factory website
for this brand.

My plumber offered to replace my old, broken down softener with a Fleck for
$ 2,050, which seems excessive, considering that the unit costs only about $
400. (Very little plumbing adjustment required.) Another rip-off.

Are fewer people using/installing water softeners? *Maybe I can draw on the
experience on other people in this Group?

Thanks for any input.

--
Walterwww.rationality.net
-

How hard is your water? What other contaminates may be in it?

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:12:46 -0700, "Walter R."
wrote:

There is surprisingly little info on water softeners on Google. With most
water sources being on the hard side, I would expect a great deal of info on
ways to soften water. There is a very large number of websites which pitch
obvious frauds at high prices, such as magnetic water softeners and "ion"
softeners. Never seen anything like it.

Anyway, I would like to install a real "salt-type" water softener to combat
our hard water. Home Depot only sells a GE miniature water softener for $
449, Lowes sells a Whirlpool for $ 427. That's all in the local area (San
Diego).

The only other reputable looking brand that I could find on the web is the
Fleck 5600 series of water softeners. However, there is no factory website
for this brand.


I replaced my Fleck 5600 and moved from the manual type to a digital
model. I've had the brand in other homes, so I'm happy.

My plumber offered to replace my old, broken down softener with a Fleck for
$ 2,050, which seems excessive, considering that the unit costs only about $
400. (Very little plumbing adjustment required.) Another rip-off.


I was quoted about the same. Maybe a little more. I had the existing
loop, so all I needed was the softener. I bought the Fleck 5600
digital. Finished the job in short order. Cost me about $400.00 and
was delivered the next day from Phoenix, AZ (free shipping).

Are fewer people using/installing water softeners? Maybe I can draw on the
experience on other people in this Group?

Thanks for any input.

One occasional poster here, Gary Slusser has a web site. The site I
used was a big help with information (*) Gary has toll free or cell
phone numbers. Also search message from him in this group.


Good reading at both links.

Gary's site:

http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/

* Site I used:

http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com/index.htm

Hardness is about 15 grains. Comes from the Colorado River: Too thick to
drink, too thin to plow. No other problems.

--
Walter
www.rationality.net
-
wrote in message
...
On Aug 10, 2:12 pm, "Walter R." wrote:
There is surprisingly little info on water softeners on Google. With most
water sources being on the hard side, I would expect a great deal of info
on
ways to soften water. There is a very large number of websites which pitch
obvious frauds at high prices, such as magnetic water softeners and "ion"
softeners. Never seen anything like it.

Anyway, I would like to install a real "salt-type" water softener to
combat
our hard water. Home Depot only sells a GE miniature water softener for $
449, Lowes sells a Whirlpool for $ 427. That's all in the local area (San
Diego).

The only other reputable looking brand that I could find on the web is the
Fleck 5600 series of water softeners. However, there is no factory website
for this brand.

My plumber offered to replace my old, broken down softener with a Fleck
for
$ 2,050, which seems excessive, considering that the unit costs only about
$
400. (Very little plumbing adjustment required.) Another rip-off.

Are fewer people using/installing water softeners? Maybe I can draw on the
experience on other people in this Group?

Thanks for any input.

--
Walterwww.rationality.net
-

How hard is your water? What other contaminates may be in it?

"Walter R." wrote in message
...
There is surprisingly little info on water softeners on Google. With most
water sources being on the hard side, I would expect a great deal of info
on ways to soften water. There is a very large number of websites which
pitch obvious frauds at high prices, such as magnetic water softeners and
"ion" softeners. Never seen anything like it.

Anyway, I would like to install a real "salt-type" water softener to
combat our hard water. Home Depot only sells a GE miniature water softener
for $ 449, Lowes sells a Whirlpool for $ 427. That's all in the local area
(San Diego).

The only other reputable looking brand that I could find on the web is the
Fleck 5600 series of water softeners. However, there is no factory website
for this brand.

My plumber offered to replace my old, broken down softener with a Fleck
for $ 2,050, which seems excessive, considering that the unit costs only
about $ 400. (Very little plumbing adjustment required.) Another rip-off.

Are fewer people using/installing water softeners? Maybe I can draw on
the experience on other people in this Group?

Thanks for any input.


We bought our Fleck online from these guys:
http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com..._softeners.htm

DH installed it in about two hours, and most of that time was figuring out
how to program the settings/options. It also took a few minutes to fill the
resin tank, and that was much easier to do with two people. Just don't buy
Kinetico. We had one of those (it cost $3k!!) and it died in 10 years. When
it failed, they wanted $4k to replace it. Yeah, right. The Fleck is about
1/10th of that, and it's been working like a champ for over a year now.
We're already ahead.

"Walter R." wrote in message ...
Hardness is about 15 grains. Comes from the Colorado River: Too thick to
drink, too thin to plow. No other problems.

Stick with the Fleck 5600. It's by far the most widely used and
reliable control head in the home water softener market.

Get a unit that does not have the media tank inside the salt tank.
Separate tanks are much easier to clean and service.

Has your water been tested for total alkalinity?

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:23:39 -0400, "h"
wrote:

We bought our Fleck online from these guys:
http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com..._softeners.htm

h,

I bought from this site last year (little longer). I was pleased with
the service, free shipping, next day. I also posted a link to the
site.

Would you PLEASE verify the link? I'm having trouble getting there,
even the main page. Hope the didn't disappear

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:13:19 -0700, "Walter R."
wrote:

Hardness is about 15 grains. Comes from the Colorado River: Too thick to
drink, too thin to plow. No other problems.

I'm not far from Lake Mead. Your water must soften, before it gets
there

Your water authority most likely publishes reports on the water
quality/hardness... iirc, hardness here was higher. It was suggested
in my readings that the hardness setting (?!) be bumped up.

I don't have the link, but maps are posted to show water hardness
around the country. Las Vegas is the worst IME.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:41:37 -0700, "nospam"
wrote:

"Walter R." wrote in message ...
Hardness is about 15 grains. Comes from the Colorado River: Too thick to
drink, too thin to plow. No other problems.

Stick with the Fleck 5600. It's by far the most widely used and
reliable control head in the home water softener market.

Get a unit that does not have the media tank inside the salt tank.
Separate tanks are much easier to clean and service.


Newer Fleck 5600 have metal (SS?) bypass valves and handles.

Models around 1995 were breakable at the handle turn off.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:23:39 -0400, "h"
wrote:

We bought our Fleck online from these guys:
http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com..._softeners.htm

h,

I bought from this site last year (little longer). I was pleased with
the service, free shipping, next day. I also posted a link to the
site.

Would you PLEASE verify the link? I'm having trouble getting there,
even the main page. Hope the didn't disappear

I was just there, works fine:
http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com..._softeners.htm

nospam wrote:
"Walter R." wrote in message ...
Hardness is about 15 grains. Comes from the Colorado River: Too thick to
drink, too thin to plow. No other problems.

Stick with the Fleck 5600. It's by far the most widely used and
reliable control head in the home water softener market.

Get a unit that does not have the media tank inside the salt tank.
Separate tanks are much easier to clean and service.

Has your water been tested for total alkalinity?




Hi,
Fleck control head is good but my house is stuck with a GE softener,
Sears depot sells GE control head rebuild kit in a bag which I used
twice over the years. Price of kit is not bad.
Yes, if space permits two tank system is the way to go. Easy for
maintenace doing such thing as cleaning out salt tank.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:10:49 -0400, "h"
wrote:

I was just there, works fine:
http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com..._softeners.htm



Thank You! My cable provider/I suppose... Can't get the Domain, even.

No need to reply, thanks.

My wife wants to know: Why use a two-piece softener (Fleck), instead of a
one-piece softener (Whirlpool, GE).

--
Walter
www.rationality.net
-
"Walter R." wrote in message
...
There is surprisingly little info on water softeners on Google. With most
water sources being on the hard side, I would expect a great deal of info
on ways to soften water. There is a very large number of websites which
pitch obvious frauds at high prices, such as magnetic water softeners and
"ion" softeners. Never seen anything like it.

Anyway, I would like to install a real "salt-type" water softener to
combat our hard water. Home Depot only sells a GE miniature water softener
for $ 449, Lowes sells a Whirlpool for $ 427. That's all in the local area
(San Diego).

The only other reputable looking brand that I could find on the web is the
Fleck 5600 series of water softeners. However, there is no factory website
for this brand.

My plumber offered to replace my old, broken down softener with a Fleck
for $ 2,050, which seems excessive, considering that the unit costs only
about $ 400. (Very little plumbing adjustment required.) Another rip-off.

Are fewer people using/installing water softeners? Maybe I can draw on
the experience on other people in this Group?

Thanks for any input.

--
Walter
www.rationality.net
-

In article ,
"Walter R." wrote:

There is surprisingly little info on water softeners on Google.

There's a sh*t-load of them for sale on Amazon.

I would expect a great deal of info on ways to soften water.

Screw all that. Feed it salt and pay the water bill.
Presto! Soft water.

My plumber offered to replace my old, broken down softener with a Fleck for
$ 2,050, which seems excessive

It probably is excessive.

Testimonial mode: ON

Culligan.

http://www.culligan.com

I am not an employee, stock holder or have any other interest in the
company. I am just a VERY satisfied customer.

Years ago, our Sears "best" softener crapped-out after only a few years.
With a houseful of kids, we didn't have enough spare money with which to
buy another softener. I rented one from Culligan.

When we moved to a new home in 1991, we took the equipment along and had
it installed in our new place. We shortly purchased the rental unit in
place.

It hasn't missed a beat since.

Testimonial mode: OFF

Rent one from your local Culligan dealer. Use it for a few payments,
then buy it outright.
--

JR

In article ,
Claude Hopper wrote:

What's wrong with hard water?

Nothing.

The salient question is, "What's RIGHT with SOFT water?"

Just about everything.

Before first using a water softener, our water was so hard that you
didn't even have to be RELIGIOUS to walk on it. grin

All the usual, well known benefits are true: Soap lasts longer.
Clothes make it through the washer cleaner and softer. There's no need
to use CLR, Zud, Lime-Away, or a cold chisel and hammer when cleaning
the fixtures. Birds sing better and the sky is alway blue - even at
night.

One need not inquire about water quality from the local utility. A trip
to the local hardware or farm store reveals all you need to know: If
the store has stacks of softener salt out front, the community has HARD
water.

I will never be without soft water again. It's that good.
--

JR

In article ,
"Walter R." wrote:

My wife wants to know: Why use a two-piece softener (Fleck), instead of a
one-piece softener (Whirlpool, GE).

Because the two-piece arrangement holds *MUCH* more salt. And that's
the least of the good reasons. Installation can be easier with the
resin tank in one location and the brine (salt) tank in another,
although they are usually placed side-by-side.

Don't take a chance on a cheapie from the big box stores.
Call Culligan.

Tell your wife that she'll absolutely LOVE soft water. I'd get Mrs.
MacWidow (my beloved wife) to add her agreement but she'd rather watch
VoyeurTV (reality crap) and the 21st century's version of Ted Mack's
Original Amateur Hour than actually participate in something
occasionally useful - like this!
--

JR

In article , Josh
wrote:

I bought from Gary Slusser at:
http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/

He used to be a regular here offering up lots of great (free)
advice on repairing and installing softeners. I couldn't have
been happier with my purchase, and after 4 years I've had no
problems with it, other than forgetting to add salt!

Same here.

When showering, it's obvious when the salt supply is gone.
--

JR

"Claude Hopper" wrote in message
...
Walter R. wrote:
There is surprisingly little info on water softeners on Google. With most
water sources being on the hard side, I would expect a great deal of info
on ways to soften water. There is a very large number of websites which
pitch obvious frauds at high prices, such as magnetic water softeners and
"ion" softeners. Never seen anything like it.

Anyway, I would like to install a real "salt-type" water softener to
combat our hard water. Home Depot only sells a GE miniature water
softener for $ 449, Lowes sells a Whirlpool for $ 427. That's all in the
local area (San Diego).

The only other reputable looking brand that I could find on the web is
the Fleck 5600 series of water softeners. However, there is no factory
website for this brand.

My plumber offered to replace my old, broken down softener with a Fleck
for $ 2,050, which seems excessive, considering that the unit costs only
about $ 400. (Very little plumbing adjustment required.) Another rip-off.

Are fewer people using/installing water softeners? Maybe I can draw on
the experience on other people in this Group?

Thanks for any input.

What's wrong with hard water?


It's very bad for plumbing and appliances. It's tough on your skin and hair.
It requires more soap to clean things.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 03:43:21 -0400, "h"
wrote:


"Claude Hopper" wrote in message
m...

[snip]

It's very bad for plumbing and appliances. It's tough on your skin and hair.
It requires more soap to clean things.


The well we used to use at the farm had soft water. It was very good
for drinking, but had problems for other things. I remember washing my
hair and it taking (seemingly) forever to rinse out the soap.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Never underestimate the power of stupid
people in large groups"

Walter,

Have you looked in your phone book under water conditioning? I'd be
surprised if there are not a number of companies in your area who will
install and maintain these devices. Be prepared for a heavy sales pitch. I
think Sears puts their softener on sale quite often.

Dave M.

On Aug 10, 12:12 pm, "Walter R." wrote:
There is surprisingly little info on water softeners on Google. With most
water sources being on the hard side, I would expect a great deal of info on
ways to soften water. There is a very large number of websites which pitch
obvious frauds at high prices, such as magnetic water softeners and "ion"
softeners. Never seen anything like it.

Anyway, I would like to install a real "salt-type" water softener to combat
our hard water. Home Depot only sells a GE miniature water softener for $
449, Lowes sells a Whirlpool for $ 427. That's all in the local area (San
Diego).

The only other reputable looking brand that I could find on the web is the
Fleck 5600 series of water softeners. However, there is no factory website
for this brand.

My plumber offered to replace my old, broken down softener with a Fleck for
$ 2,050, which seems excessive, considering that the unit costs only about $
400. (Very little plumbing adjustment required.) Another rip-off.

Are fewer people using/installing water softeners? Maybe I can draw on the
experience on other people in this Group?

Thanks for any input.

--
Walterwww.rationality.net
-

I have sold a lot of equipment using a Fleck control valve, and
repaired many but the best control valve is the Clack WS-1. It has the
same piston, seal and spacer design as Fleck with many great
improvements. I've been selling them for 4.5 years now and out of
roughly 1100 sales, I've had only 21 problems. The same number of
Fleck valves... I would have expected 10%+ problems by now. The Clack
WS-1 is a DIYer's dream to program and repair if needed. It is so
simple anyone that can look at he picture in the manual and relate
that to the valve and follow simple text and wield a pair of channel
lock type pliers can rebuild the whole valve and have their water back
on in less than 30 minutes. That was intended in the design.

And based on what I hear from customers of that other web site .... be
careful out there.

And many thanks to the guys that mentioned me (especially Josh),
except the one that used me to then buy from THEM! lol.

Big box brands are low quality mass produced softeners. They are one
piece which makes them very hard to work on and, they can not be made
much larger than .7 to 1.2 cubic feet in size. My web site has a lot
of info about correctly sizing a softener, get that wrong and the
thing will never work consistently.

Gary Slusser
Quality Water Associates

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:59:21 -0500, Jim Redelfs
wrote:

In article ,
Claude Hopper wrote:

What's wrong with hard water?

Nothing.


Unless you have to strain it through the teeth.

The salient question is, "What's RIGHT with SOFT water?"

Just about everything.

Before first using a water softener, our water was so hard that you
didn't even have to be RELIGIOUS to walk on it. grin

All the usual, well known benefits are true: Soap lasts longer.
Clothes make it through the washer cleaner and softer. There's no need
to use CLR, Zud, Lime-Away, or a cold chisel and hammer when cleaning
the fixtures. Birds sing better and the sky is alway blue - even at
night.

One need not inquire about water quality from the local utility. A trip
to the local hardware or farm store reveals all you need to know: If
the store has stacks of softener salt out front, the community has HARD
water.

I will never be without soft water again. It's that good.

Side by side comparisons:

Two homes 10 years old. My appliances worked as new and looked great,
when the house was sold. I had a softener. The neighbor sold just
before me. His appliances went to recycle. The calcium (Lake Mead
water) destroyed the appliances in his home.

btw, folks should ask the water utility about water quality/hardness.
A good source of information...

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:28:25 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

The well we used to use at the farm had soft water. It was very good
for drinking, but had problems for other things. I remember washing my
hair and it taking (seemingly) forever to rinse out the soap.

The rinsing in soft water does take some time to adjust (first time
users). One is to use less/soap detergent. Soft water gives a "slimy"
feel, so the person spends more time rinsing. Not really necessary,
but get use to the soft water and less body soap/shampoo/other
detergent (DW/Laundry).

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:33:14 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:28:25 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

The well we used to use at the farm had soft water. It was very good
for drinking, but had problems for other things. I remember washing my
hair and it taking (seemingly) forever to rinse out the soap.

The rinsing in soft water does take some time to adjust (first time
users). One is to use less/soap detergent. Soft water gives a "slimy"
feel, so the person spends more time rinsing. Not really necessary,
but get use to the soft water and less body soap/shampoo/other
detergent (DW/Laundry).

Perhaps you could email this to me 40 years ago? I could have used it
then :-)
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Never underestimate the power of stupid
people in large groups"