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Posted to uk.d-i-y
Quiggles
 
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Default Water Softeners

Well it's got to that stage on the house build where the new bathroom
is about to be plumbed in, and I want to avoid the dreaded limescale.

Has anyone got any recommendations on a suitable water softener for a 5
bed house, with one bathroom, one en-suite, and the usual array of
water guzzling appliances.

Any advice appreciated!

  #2   Report Post  
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Christian McArdle
 
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Default Water Softeners

Has anyone got any recommendations on a suitable water softener for a 5
bed house, with one bathroom, one en-suite, and the usual array of
water guzzling appliances.


I'm happy with the one I've just bought. It is a twin cylinder water powered
metered unit (the best type). www.emwc.co.uk.

There are basically 3 different designs for ion-exchange water softeners.

1. Timed single cylinder.
The worst type, but cheapest. A timer is set to regenerate every few days.
This means you alternate between running out of soft water and wasting salt
and water regenerating unnecessarily. The saved money over a metered system
will soon be lost to salt wastage alone, let alone any metered water
wastage.

2. Metered single cylinder.
More expensive, but a vast improvement. The system meters water use and
tries to predict if you will run out during the next day. If so, it
regenerates overnight. It still can't provide soft water during the
regeneration cycle, although hopefully you won't be using water at night. It
may waste a little salt or go a bit hard if the prediction is out.

3. Metered twin cylinder.
Most expensive. Never runs out and never wastes salt. When the metering
indicates that the cylinder is exhausted, it switches supply to the other
cylinder and regenerates the exhausted one. This way there is always soft
water available, even during regeneration. Regeneration can occur at any
time of day or night. No electrical supply is needed to run timers or
microcontrollers to determine when to regenerate.

Christian.


  #3   Report Post  
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Nigel Molesworth
 
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Default Water Softeners

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 17:25:48 -0000, Christian McArdle wrote:

2. Metered single cylinder.
More expensive, but a vast improvement.

[snip]
may waste a little salt or go a bit hard if the prediction is out.


I've got mine set with a 10% wastage factor built-in.

Reckon it costs me another bag of salt per year, but I never get hard
water and saved a load of dosh on the purchase of a twin.

Your choice, 2 or 3 - don't buy a 1.

--
Nigel M
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Jim Gregory
 
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Default Water Softeners

"Quiggles" wrote in message
oups.com...
Well it's got to that stage on the house build where the new bathroom
is about to be plumbed in, and I want to avoid the dreaded limescale.

Has anyone got any recommendations on a suitable water softener for a 5
bed house, with one bathroom, one en-suite, and the usual array of
water guzzling appliances.

Any advice appreciated!

Try Permutit - has been atound for 3 generations, possibly America first
http://www.elga.co.uk/brands/permutit.php
or
ScaleWatcher - only 14 years in market
http://www.scalewatcher.co.uk/




  #5   Report Post  
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The Natural Philosopher
 
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Default Water Softeners

Quiggles wrote:
Well it's got to that stage on the house build where the new bathroom
is about to be plumbed in, and I want to avoid the dreaded limescale.

Has anyone got any recommendations on a suitable water softener for a 5
bed house, with one bathroom, one en-suite, and the usual array of
water guzzling appliances.

Any advice appreciated!

Dunno. I have one doing that job, but for the life of me I can';t
remember what its called.
#
Uses a bag of salt a month.

Get one with a high flow a rate..

Paid about 600 IIRC. B


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Sponix
 
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Default Water Softeners

On 14 Feb 2006 09:01:10 -0800, "Quiggles"
wrote:

Well it's got to that stage on the house build where the new bathroom
is about to be plumbed in, and I want to avoid the dreaded limescale.

Has anyone got any recommendations on a suitable water softener for a 5
bed house, with one bathroom, one en-suite, and the usual array of
water guzzling appliances.


Whatever you do make sure that you take drinking/cooking water from a
non softened tap!

Most water softeners will add a certain amount of sodium to the water
which can be harmful to health.

sponix
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
The Natural Philosopher
 
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Default Water Softeners

Sponix wrote:
On 14 Feb 2006 09:01:10 -0800, "Quiggles"
wrote:

Well it's got to that stage on the house build where the new bathroom
is about to be plumbed in, and I want to avoid the dreaded limescale.

Has anyone got any recommendations on a suitable water softener for a 5
bed house, with one bathroom, one en-suite, and the usual array of
water guzzling appliances.


Whatever you do make sure that you take drinking/cooking water from a
non softened tap!

Most water softeners will add a certain amount of sodium to the water
which can be harmful to health.

sponix


Yes. Its almost as much as a packet of crisps adds..if you drink a whole
bathtub.

Very dangerous, drinking a whole bathtub.
  #9   Report Post  
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Christian McArdle
 
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Default Water Softeners

Whatever you do make sure that you take drinking/cooking water from a
non softened tap!


It's still quite potable. They just don't recommend it for babies under 1
year old and people on an ultra-low sodium diet.

Compared to the amount of salt adding during cooking, it is nothing.

You are required to have a hard water tap in the kitchen, though.

Christian.


  #10   Report Post  
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Dave Fawthrop
 
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Default Water Softeners

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:09:08 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

| Whatever you do make sure that you take drinking/cooking water from a
| non softened tap!
|
|It's still quite potable. They just don't recommend it for babies under 1
|year old and people on an ultra-low sodium diet.
|
|Compared to the amount of salt adding during cooking, it is nothing.

We gave up cooking with salt years ago, except home made bread.

|You are required to have a hard water tap in the kitchen, though.

Not in my area, the soft water comes straight off the peat moors ;o)
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
Freedom of Speech, Expression, Religion, and Democracy are
the keys to Civilization, together with legal acceptance of
Fundamental Human rights.


  #11   Report Post  
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Dave Plowman (News)
 
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Default Water Softeners

In article ,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|Compared to the amount of salt adding during cooking, it is nothing.


We gave up cooking with salt years ago, except home made bread.


|You are required to have a hard water tap in the kitchen, though.


Not in my area, the soft water comes straight off the peat moors ;o)


I wouldn't be too smug. ;-)

Some surveys show people living in soft water areas are more prone to
heart trouble than in hard water ones.

--
*I have my own little world - but it's OK...they know me here*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Christian McArdle
 
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Default Water Softeners

Some surveys show people living in soft water areas are more prone to
heart trouble than in hard water ones.


A statistic somewhat skewed by the deep fried Mars Bars in Glasgow, I
suspect!

Christian.


  #13   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Brian Sharrock
 
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Default Water Softeners


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|Compared to the amount of salt adding during cooking, it is nothing.


We gave up cooking with salt years ago, except home made bread.


|You are required to have a hard water tap in the kitchen, though.


Firstly, I haven't got a water softener (yet) but did discuss
such device at a trade show ... the stand-guy said it's a
requirement to have a tap off the rising main .... although I'd
interpreted this to mean a (drinking) tap _within_ the kitchen
and adjacent to the sink the guy said the regulations didn't
_actually_ specify this (and an external garden tap would meet
the literal requirement!). {Don't try this at home, children!]

Not in my area, the soft water comes straight off the peat moors ;o)


I wouldn't be too smug. ;-)

Some surveys show people living in soft water areas are more prone to
heart trouble than in hard water ones.

This reminds me of a tale from water-board man I knew (before they all
became owned by foreigners and transmogrified into 'companies') ...
apparently there was a village serviced by his water board with water
extracted from a 'well'. On assay the water was determined to have a surfeit
of xxxx! What was the effect of imbibing xxxx by the inhabitants(customers)?
Apparently, the villagers' life expectancy would be limited to seventy-five
years! What did the water-board do about the problem? Nothing, nada!


--

Brian


  #14   Report Post  
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Andy Hall
 
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Default Water Softeners

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:34:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|Compared to the amount of salt adding during cooking, it is nothing.


We gave up cooking with salt years ago, except home made bread.


|You are required to have a hard water tap in the kitchen, though.


Not in my area, the soft water comes straight off the peat moors ;o)


I wouldn't be too smug. ;-)

Some surveys show people living in soft water areas are more prone to
heart trouble than in hard water ones.



That's Glasgow, the land of deep fried pizzas and Mars bars and
excessive smoking.

Even so, naturally soft water isn't higher in sodium.....


--

..andy

  #15   Report Post  
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Capitol
 
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Default Water Softeners



Andy Hall wrote:

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:34:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


In article ,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

|Compared to the amount of salt adding during cooking, it is nothing.


We gave up cooking with salt years ago, except home made bread.


|You are required to have a hard water tap in the kitchen, though.


Not in my area, the soft water comes straight off the peat moors ;o)


I wouldn't be too smug. ;-)

Some surveys show people living in soft water areas are more prone to
heart trouble than in hard water ones.




That's Glasgow, the land of deep fried pizzas and Mars bars and
excessive smoking.

Even so, naturally soft water isn't higher in sodium.....


IME, the deep fried pizzas were better. However, it was the peat
content coming out of the tap which gave the water real body and a
unique taste.

Regards
Capitol


  #16   Report Post  
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Dave Plowman (News)
 
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Default Water Softeners

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Some surveys show people living in soft water areas are more prone to
heart trouble than in hard water ones.



That's Glasgow, the land of deep fried pizzas and Mars bars and
excessive smoking.


Glasgow is the only soft water area in the UK?

Even so, naturally soft water isn't higher in sodium.....


Dunno what the reason or theory is.

--
*Cover me. I'm changing lanes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Andy Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default Water Softeners

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 19:41:08 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Some surveys show people living in soft water areas are more prone to
heart trouble than in hard water ones.



That's Glasgow, the land of deep fried pizzas and Mars bars and
excessive smoking.


Glasgow is the only soft water area in the UK?


No, although it does seem that most of the reports about increased CHD
emanate from there.





Even so, naturally soft water isn't higher in sodium.....


Dunno what the reason or theory is.


--

..andy

  #18   Report Post  
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Sponix
 
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Default Water Softeners

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:00:20 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Umm... no.


Umm..yes.

There is more sodium in a slice of bread than several litres of
softened water.


It has a cumulative effect.

Southern water (and I assume other water boards) insist on a seperate
unsoftened tap so as not to breach the water supply regulations.

sponix
  #19   Report Post  
Posted to uk.d-i-y
Andy Hall
 
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Default Water Softeners

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:43:18 GMT, (Sponix) wrote:

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:00:20 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Umm... no.


Umm..yes.

There is more sodium in a slice of bread than several litres of
softened water.


It has a cumulative effect.


That's not quite true. Cardiovascular risk is cumulative anyway

The significance of that depends on the individual.

Even softened water would be classified as low or very low sodium
content on a dietary basis.

If somebody has health issues for which sodium of under 1.5g per day
is indicated, then they shouldn't be drinking tap water anyway, be it
hard or soft, since hard water can contain appreciable amounts of
sodium as well. At this point, the person should be drinking
demineralised water anyway.


The whole thing also depends on the original hardness of the water.
The harder it was to begin with, the more sodium is added in the
softenening process.

Probably of more importance in terms of cardiovascular risk is not
presence of sodium, but absence of magnesium.


In terms of overall risk to health from tap water, I would be more
concerned about presence of organic chemicals, pesticides, nitrates,
fluorides (as in fluorides being toxic) and so on far before sodium
content.



Southern water (and I assume other water boards) insist on a seperate
unsoftened tap so as not to breach the water supply regulations.


That may be, but its not because of any significant health risk to
most people from sodium in softened water.


I can quite appreciate that softened tap water doesn't taste very
nice. For that matter, hard doesn't either and so I don't drink
either of them. However to suggest a health risk for most people
is fanciful.


--

..andy

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Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
Except for a few, who had to be casevaced to the UK.

^^^^^^^^^

Is this straight from Reader's Digest 'increase your word power' ?

Not in my computer dictionary, and I've never heard it before.

--
*Men are from Earth, women are from Earth. Deal with it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #23   Report Post  
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Andy Hall
 
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Default Water Softeners

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:19:10 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
Except for a few, who had to be casevaced to the UK.

^^^^^^^^^

Is this straight from Reader's Digest 'increase your word power' ?

Not in my computer dictionary, and I've never heard it before.




Comes from the same pseudo-military dictionary as FUBAR.


This one is not derived from casevace as one might think, but from
"casevac" or cas-evac short for casualty evacuation.



It reminds me of a holiday in Scotland one year when I was a kid.

My mother looked at the sign above a woollens shop (Macewens in
Pitlochry, I think it was), and thought that Mace-wen was a funny name
for a shopkeeper.


--

..andy

  #24   Report Post  
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Douglas de Lacey
 
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Default Water Softeners

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

Except for a few, who had to be casevaced to the UK.


^^^^^^^^^

Is this straight from Reader's Digest 'increase your word power' ?

Not in my computer dictionary, and I've never heard it before.


Not in the OED either. But let me compensate you with extispicy, an
activity in which many experts are currently employed.
Douglas de Lacey
  #25   Report Post  
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Dave Fawthrop
 
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On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:19:10 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

|In article ,
| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| Except for a few, who had to be casevaced to the UK.
| ^^^^^^^^^
|
|Is this straight from Reader's Digest 'increase your word power' ?
|
|Not in my computer dictionary, and I've never heard it before.

CASualty EVACUation.


--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
Freedom of Speech, Expression, Religion, and Democracy are
the keys to Civilization, together with legal acceptance of
Fundamental Human rights.


  #26   Report Post  
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Brian Sharrock
 
Posts: n/a
Default Water Softeners


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
Except for a few, who had to be casevaced to the UK.

^^^^^^^^^

Is this straight from Reader's Digest 'increase your word power' ?

Not in my computer dictionary, and I've never heard it before.


Perhaps you don't get out often enough?
Is a 'computer dictionary' one that explains RAM, ROM,
CPU et.al .. ?
Or; is it your computer's dictionary that can't explain the
etymology of [CasEvac] CASualty EVACuation?
'The unit evacuated two civilians' = two civilians 'walked out' with the
unit's assistance.
'Two civilians were casevaced = two civilians were moved on stretchers
(air/ambulance) ~ basically couldn't move without medical assistance.

HTH

--

Brian







  #27   Report Post  
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Dave Plowman (News)
 
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In article ,
Brian Sharrock wrote:
Perhaps you don't get out often enough?
Is a 'computer dictionary' one that explains RAM, ROM,
CPU et.al .. ?


No - simply an electronic version of Collins GEM. But not recent.

Or; is it your computer's dictionary that can't explain the
etymology of [CasEvac] CASualty EVACuation?
'The unit evacuated two civilians' = two civilians 'walked out' with the
unit's assistance.
'Two civilians were casevaced = two civilians were moved on stretchers
(air/ambulance) ~ basically couldn't move without medical assistance.


Ah - it's jargon? Is it in any dictionary yet?

--
*The older you get, the better you realize you were.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Andy Hall
 
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On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 19:37:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Brian Sharrock wrote:
Perhaps you don't get out often enough?
Is a 'computer dictionary' one that explains RAM, ROM,
CPU et.al .. ?


No - simply an electronic version of Collins GEM. But not recent.

Or; is it your computer's dictionary that can't explain the
etymology of [CasEvac] CASualty EVACuation?
'The unit evacuated two civilians' = two civilians 'walked out' with the
unit's assistance.
'Two civilians were casevaced = two civilians were moved on stretchers
(air/ambulance) ~ basically couldn't move without medical assistance.


Ah - it's jargon? Is it in any dictionary yet?


It probably was in 1943.


--

..andy

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Dave Fawthrop
 
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On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:44:52 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

|On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 19:37:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
|
|In article ,
| Brian Sharrock wrote:
| Perhaps you don't get out often enough?
| Is a 'computer dictionary' one that explains RAM, ROM,
| CPU et.al .. ?
|
|No - simply an electronic version of Collins GEM. But not recent.
|
| Or; is it your computer's dictionary that can't explain the
| etymology of [CasEvac] CASualty EVACuation?
| 'The unit evacuated two civilians' = two civilians 'walked out' with the
| unit's assistance.
| 'Two civilians were casevaced = two civilians were moved on stretchers
| (air/ambulance) ~ basically couldn't move without medical assistance.
|
|Ah - it's jargon? Is it in any dictionary yet?
|
|It probably was in 1943.

Also early 1960s
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
Freedom of Speech, Expression, Religion, and Democracy are
the keys to Civilization, together with legal acceptance of
Fundamental Human rights.
  #30   Report Post  
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Andy Hall
 
Posts: n/a
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On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 21:17:16 +0000, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:44:52 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

|On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 19:37:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
|
|In article ,
| Brian Sharrock wrote:
| Perhaps you don't get out often enough?
| Is a 'computer dictionary' one that explains RAM, ROM,
| CPU et.al .. ?
|
|No - simply an electronic version of Collins GEM. But not recent.
|
| Or; is it your computer's dictionary that can't explain the
| etymology of [CasEvac] CASualty EVACuation?
| 'The unit evacuated two civilians' = two civilians 'walked out' with the
| unit's assistance.
| 'Two civilians were casevaced = two civilians were moved on stretchers
| (air/ambulance) ~ basically couldn't move without medical assistance.
|
|Ah - it's jargon? Is it in any dictionary yet?
|
|It probably was in 1943.

Also early 1960s



OK. I guess it had to be, considering the geography.


--

..andy

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