warning....pretty long post

I am so fed up with Radon right now I dont know what to do. I completely
sealed every single crack with poleurothane chaulking. 6 mm plastic
sheeting down , padding down , 1/2 think laminated wood flooring down...
Wood trim sealed with chaulking on top and on bottom.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...r/DSC00534.jpg ( a little
blurry )

I've never had any problems with wetness or dampness on that level.

There is absolutely no way at all from the bottom that the radon can come
through. So the only place it could be coming through is through the
drywall via the extreme outer parts of the foundation area. And possibly
from the buildup directly underneath the flooring where it cannot escape.
So its possibly seeping through from underneath the flooring / underneath
the woodtrim / towards the interior drywall. Thats my final conclusion.

I still have the same levels as I had before all this work was done.
Around 5 to 8 pcI . I monitor all the time and even have an accurate
electronic one that monitors it every hour. I've never seen it ever go
above 9pcI here...for years now I even occasionally send charcol packets
for lab analysis that confirm that my electronic gauge is very accurate.
Im almost at the point where I dont care anymore and im just going to live
with it. Normal levels in Canada for the longest time used to be 20 pcI or
under. They recently lowered the legal level to 5 pcI. Yet the u.s. level
is 4 pcI . Is this going to change all the time ? I mean its not like I
have 5000 pcI like some houses out there.

I have a bi-level house. I cant have a mitigation system installed since I
have no gravel underneath the foundation for the gas to breathe through. I
heard this was common with bi-levels. My house was built in 1993. I also
have radiant heating...another pain in the ass thing that the mitigation
installers around here dont want to mess with... and plus with the wood
flooring installed, the only place would be the garage to install the
mitigation...and thats another problem since nobody knows if the garage is
on a seperate slab of concrete then the main floor. The vaccum effect
wouldnt work if its on another slab. Plus theres no gravel underneath.

So I decided to take matters into my own hands today and dug underneath my
foundation -

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...r/DSC00532.jpg

It took me 2 hours to get around these boulders of rocks with a hand
shovel.. (not seen in picture) The point I stopped at was right when the
thunder storm moved in. But im pretty sure im under the foundation ? Any
advice to do from here on out would be much appreciated. I left it like
that for now. (dont worry the storm moved by quick...barely any rain)
Maybe stick a pipe underneath there?....put the dirt back and see if the
levels drop ? Why bother with a mitigation system for that section when I
dont have gravel underneath ? Plus if I did have a gravel layer it would
probably show up in that pic anyway right ?

I feel exhaused with my efforts....and exhaused from the uncertainty from
the 2 different mitigation estimate people i've been dealing with. Both
people just didnt have a definate answer on what would work... And I hate
crap like that when their like "well....we can drill one hole here...and see
if that works....if that doesnt work....wellllllllllllllll...........we can
drill another hole............and welllllll...........if that doesnt
work............we can try something else..................and if that
doesnt work.......... , etc, etc... by that time I had a brain tumor and
told them to leave. I just want it to be fixed and done with, but that is
not possible with radon. especially with my situation. Very aggravating.

I've also heard that the only governmental radon / lung cancer studies that
have EVER been done have been with Miners. People that work thousands of
feet underground... of course their going to have problems. Theres never
been any household radon / lung cancer studies done... EVER. Sometimes I
think its a whole corrupt government thing. Maybe the Real studies
indicated that anything under 10 pcI is completely safe. But if they
officially say it has to be under 4 pcI....when then they make a whole lot
more money that way. A whole lot more houses end up above the legal
limits.

Sorry for all my blabber, im mostly looking into any positive insight on
what I can do with that hole I dug. (I sense sarcastic remarks incoming)

Seriously, I appreciate any insight. I really dont know what to do anymore
with this radon.

On Jul 17, 7:06*pm, "john"
wrote:
warning....pretty long post

I am so fed up with Radon right now I dont know what to do. * I completely
sealed every single crack with poleurothane chaulking. *6 mm plastic
sheeting down , *padding down , 1/2 think laminated wood flooring down....
Wood trim sealed with chaulking on top and on bottom.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../DSC00534.jpg* ( a little
blurry )

*I've never had any problems with wetness or dampness on that level.

There is absolutely no way at all from the bottom that the radon can come
through. *So the only place it could be coming through is through the
drywall via the extreme outer parts of the foundation area. *And possibly
from the buildup directly underneath the flooring where it cannot escape.
So its possibly seeping through from underneath the flooring / underneath
the woodtrim / towards the interior drywall. *Thats my final conclusion..

I still have the same levels as I had before all this work was done.
Around 5 to 8 pcI . *I monitor all the time and even have an *accurate
electronic one that monitors it every hour. * I've never seen it ever go
above 9pcI here...for years now * I even occasionally send charcol packets
for lab analysis that confirm that my electronic gauge is very accurate.
Im almost at the point where I dont care anymore and im just going to live
with it. *Normal levels in Canada for the longest time used to be 20 pcI or
under. *They recently lowered the legal level to 5 pcI. *Yet the u.s. level
is 4 pcI . *Is this going to change all the time ? * I mean its not like I
have 5000 pcI like some houses out there.

I have a bi-level house. * I cant have a mitigation system installed since I
have no gravel underneath the foundation for the gas to breathe through. I
heard this was common with bi-levels. *My house was built in 1993. *I also
have radiant heating...another pain in the ass thing that the mitigation
installers around here dont want to mess with... *and plus with the wood
flooring installed, the only place would be the garage to install the
mitigation...and thats another problem since nobody knows if the garage is
on a seperate slab of concrete then the main floor. *The vaccum effect
wouldnt work if its on another slab. * *Plus theres no gravel underneath.

So I decided to take matters into my own hands today and dug underneath my
foundation -

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...r/DSC00532.jpg

It took me 2 hours to get around these boulders of rocks with a hand
shovel.. (not seen in picture) *The point I stopped at was right when the
thunder storm moved in. *But im pretty sure im under the foundation ? * Any
advice to do from here on out would be much appreciated. *I left it like
that for now. (dont worry the storm moved by quick...barely any rain)
Maybe stick a pipe underneath there?....put the dirt back and see if the
levels drop ? * Why bother with a mitigation system for that section when I
dont have gravel underneath ? * Plus if I did have a gravel layer it would
probably show up in that pic anyway right ?

I feel exhaused with my efforts....and exhaused from the uncertainty from
the 2 different mitigation estimate people i've been dealing with. * Both
people just didnt have a definate answer on what would work... And I hate
crap like that when their like "well....we can drill one hole here...and see
if that works....if that doesnt work....wellllllllllllllll...........we can
drill another hole............and welllllll...........if that doesnt
work............we can try something else..................and if that
doesnt work.......... , etc, etc... * by that time I had a brain tumor and
told them to leave. * *I just want it to be fixed and done with, but that is
not possible with radon. *especially with my situation. * *Very aggravating.

I've also heard that the only governmental radon / lung cancer studies that
have EVER been done have been with Miners. *People that work thousands of
feet underground... of course their going to have problems. * Theres never
been any household radon / lung cancer studies done... EVER. * *Sometimes I
think its a whole corrupt government thing. *Maybe the Real studies
indicated that anything under 10 pcI is completely safe. *But if they
officially say it has to be under 4 pcI....when then they make a whole lot
more money that way. * A whole lot more houses end up above the legal
limits.

Sorry for all my blabber, im mostly looking into any positive insight on
what I can do with that hole I dug. * (I sense sarcastic remarks incoming)

Seriously, I appreciate any insight. * I really dont know what to do anymore
with this radon.

Sorry- you still are a TROLL so its all bull **** on the advcise end

On 7/17/2008 5:18 PM ransley spake thus:

On Jul 17, 7:06 pm, "john"
wrote:

warning....pretty long post

[snip long post]

Seriously, I appreciate any insight. I really dont know what to do anymore
with this radon.

Sorry- you still are a TROLL so its all bull **** on the advcise end

No, not a troll, but *you* are an ill-mannered cur who can neither read
nor write worth a damn, so your opinions are worth zilch.


--
"Wikipedia ... it reminds me ... of dogs barking idiotically through
endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it.
It drags itself out of the dark abyss of pish, and crawls insanely up
the topmost pinnacle of posh. It is rumble and bumble. It is flap and
doodle. It is balder and dash."

- With apologies to H. L. Mencken

"john" wrote in message
...
warning....pretty long post

I am so fed up with Radon right now I dont know what to do. I completely
sealed every single crack with poleurothane chaulking. 6 mm plastic
sheeting down , padding down , 1/2 think laminated wood flooring down...
Wood trim sealed with chaulking on top and on bottom.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...r/DSC00534.jpg ( a little
blurry )

I've never had any problems with wetness or dampness on that level.

There is absolutely no way at all from the bottom that the radon can come
through. So the only place it could be coming through is through the
drywall via the extreme outer parts of the foundation area. And possibly
from the buildup directly underneath the flooring where it cannot escape.
So its possibly seeping through from underneath the flooring / underneath
the woodtrim / towards the interior drywall. Thats my final conclusion.

I still have the same levels as I had before all this work was done.
Around 5 to 8 pcI . I monitor all the time and even have an accurate
electronic one that monitors it every hour. I've never seen it ever go
above 9pcI here...for years now I even occasionally send charcol packets
for lab analysis that confirm that my electronic gauge is very accurate.
Im almost at the point where I dont care anymore and im just going to live
with it. Normal levels in Canada for the longest time used to be 20 pcI
or under. They recently lowered the legal level to 5 pcI. Yet the u.s.
level is 4 pcI . Is this going to change all the time ? I mean its not
like I have 5000 pcI like some houses out there.

I have a bi-level house. I cant have a mitigation system installed since
I have no gravel underneath the foundation for the gas to breathe through.
I heard this was common with bi-levels. My house was built in 1993. I
also have radiant heating...another pain in the ass thing that the
mitigation installers around here dont want to mess with... and plus with
the wood flooring installed, the only place would be the garage to install
the mitigation...and thats another problem since nobody knows if the
garage is on a seperate slab of concrete then the main floor. The vaccum
effect wouldnt work if its on another slab. Plus theres no gravel
underneath.

So I decided to take matters into my own hands today and dug underneath my
foundation -

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...r/DSC00532.jpg

It took me 2 hours to get around these boulders of rocks with a hand
shovel.. (not seen in picture) The point I stopped at was right when the
thunder storm moved in. But im pretty sure im under the foundation ?
Any advice to do from here on out would be much appreciated. I left it
like that for now. (dont worry the storm moved by quick...barely any rain)
Maybe stick a pipe underneath there?....put the dirt back and see if the
levels drop ? Why bother with a mitigation system for that section when
I dont have gravel underneath ? Plus if I did have a gravel layer it
would probably show up in that pic anyway right ?

I feel exhaused with my efforts....and exhaused from the uncertainty from
the 2 different mitigation estimate people i've been dealing with. Both
people just didnt have a definate answer on what would work... And I hate
crap like that when their like "well....we can drill one hole here...and
see if that works....if that doesnt
work....wellllllllllllllll...........we can drill another
hole............and welllllll...........if that doesnt work............we
can try something else..................and if that doesnt work..........
, etc, etc... by that time I had a brain tumor and told them to leave.
I just want it to be fixed and done with, but that is not possible with
radon. especially with my situation. Very aggravating.

I've also heard that the only governmental radon / lung cancer studies
that have EVER been done have been with Miners. People that work
thousands of feet underground... of course their going to have problems.
Theres never been any household radon / lung cancer studies done... EVER.
Sometimes I think its a whole corrupt government thing. Maybe the Real
studies indicated that anything under 10 pcI is completely safe. But if
they officially say it has to be under 4 pcI....when then they make a
whole lot more money that way. A whole lot more houses end up above the
legal limits.

Sorry for all my blabber, im mostly looking into any positive insight on
what I can do with that hole I dug. (I sense sarcastic remarks incoming)

Seriously, I appreciate any insight. I really dont know what to do
anymore with this radon.

Just don't give yourself a heart attack worrying about your radon. It seems
there is always something in our houses that needs abatement. If it's not
asbestos, or radon, or buried oil tanks, they'll think of something new. I
would try to get good air circulation through the ground level rooms,
whenever possible. I would also do as much research as you can on verifying
any known illnesses caused by typical home radon. My guess is you won't find
much

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:34:12 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


"john" wrote in message
...
warning....pretty long post

I am so fed up with Radon right now I dont know what to do. I completely
sealed every single crack with poleurothane chaulking. 6 mm plastic
sheeting down , padding down , 1/2 think laminated wood flooring down...
Wood trim sealed with chaulking on top and on bottom.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...r/DSC00534.jpg ( a little
blurry )

I've never had any problems with wetness or dampness on that level.

There is absolutely no way at all from the bottom that the radon can come
through. So the only place it could be coming through is through the
drywall via the extreme outer parts of the foundation area. And possibly
from the buildup directly underneath the flooring where it cannot escape.
So its possibly seeping through from underneath the flooring / underneath
the woodtrim / towards the interior drywall. Thats my final conclusion.

I still have the same levels as I had before all this work was done.
Around 5 to 8 pcI . I monitor all the time and even have an accurate
electronic one that monitors it every hour. I've never seen it ever go
above 9pcI here...for years now I even occasionally send charcol packets
for lab analysis that confirm that my electronic gauge is very accurate.
Im almost at the point where I dont care anymore and im just going to live
with it. Normal levels in Canada for the longest time used to be 20 pcI
or under. They recently lowered the legal level to 5 pcI. Yet the u.s.
level is 4 pcI . Is this going to change all the time ? I mean its not
like I have 5000 pcI like some houses out there.

I have a bi-level house. I cant have a mitigation system installed since
I have no gravel underneath the foundation for the gas to breathe through.
I heard this was common with bi-levels. My house was built in 1993. I
also have radiant heating...another pain in the ass thing that the
mitigation installers around here dont want to mess with... and plus with
the wood flooring installed, the only place would be the garage to install
the mitigation...and thats another problem since nobody knows if the
garage is on a seperate slab of concrete then the main floor. The vaccum
effect wouldnt work if its on another slab. Plus theres no gravel
underneath.

So I decided to take matters into my own hands today and dug underneath my
foundation -

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...r/DSC00532.jpg

It took me 2 hours to get around these boulders of rocks with a hand
shovel.. (not seen in picture) The point I stopped at was right when the
thunder storm moved in. But im pretty sure im under the foundation ?
Any advice to do from here on out would be much appreciated. I left it
like that for now. (dont worry the storm moved by quick...barely any rain)
Maybe stick a pipe underneath there?....put the dirt back and see if the
levels drop ? Why bother with a mitigation system for that section when
I dont have gravel underneath ? Plus if I did have a gravel layer it
would probably show up in that pic anyway right ?

I feel exhaused with my efforts....and exhaused from the uncertainty from
the 2 different mitigation estimate people i've been dealing with. Both
people just didnt have a definate answer on what would work... And I hate
crap like that when their like "well....we can drill one hole here...and
see if that works....if that doesnt
work....wellllllllllllllll...........we can drill another
hole............and welllllll...........if that doesnt work............we
can try something else..................and if that doesnt work..........
, etc, etc... by that time I had a brain tumor and told them to leave.
I just want it to be fixed and done with, but that is not possible with
radon. especially with my situation. Very aggravating.

I've also heard that the only governmental radon / lung cancer studies
that have EVER been done have been with Miners. People that work
thousands of feet underground... of course their going to have problems.
Theres never been any household radon / lung cancer studies done... EVER.
Sometimes I think its a whole corrupt government thing. Maybe the Real
studies indicated that anything under 10 pcI is completely safe. But if
they officially say it has to be under 4 pcI....when then they make a
whole lot more money that way. A whole lot more houses end up above the
legal limits.

Sorry for all my blabber, im mostly looking into any positive insight on
what I can do with that hole I dug. (I sense sarcastic remarks incoming)

Seriously, I appreciate any insight. I really dont know what to do
anymore with this radon.

Just don't give yourself a heart attack worrying about your radon. It seems
there is always something in our houses that needs abatement. If it's not
asbestos, or radon, or buried oil tanks, they'll think of something new. I
would try to get good air circulation through the ground level rooms,
whenever possible. I would also do as much research as you can on verifying
any known illnesses caused by typical home radon. My guess is you won't find
much

Do you have a sump pit? Some mitigation systems work by sealing the
sump pit and then evacuating the air in the pit to the outside. this
works because the sump is attached to pipes that already are under
your foundation.

There's all kinds of stuff on DIY radon mitigation on the web.

http://www.infiltec.com/inf-faqr.htm

BTW. I have one of those electronic radon meters and mine's at 4.8.
It's been as high as 9.

Also, for anyone in Illinois, The state is giving away free radon test
kits. http://www.iema.illinois.gov/radon/RadonTestKit.asp

-dickm

On Jul 17, 8:06*pm, "john"
wrote:
warning....pretty long post

I am so fed up with Radon right now I dont know what to do. * I completely
sealed every single crack with poleurothane chaulking. *6 mm plastic
sheeting down , *padding down , 1/2 think laminated wood flooring down....
Wood trim sealed with chaulking on top and on bottom.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../DSC00534.jpg* ( a little
blurry )

*I've never had any problems with wetness or dampness on that level.

There is absolutely no way at all from the bottom that the radon can come
through. *So the only place it could be coming through is through the
drywall via the extreme outer parts of the foundation area. *And possibly
from the buildup directly underneath the flooring where it cannot escape.
So its possibly seeping through from underneath the flooring / underneath
the woodtrim / towards the interior drywall. *Thats my final conclusion..

I still have the same levels as I had before all this work was done.
Around 5 to 8 pcI . *I monitor all the time and even have an *accurate
electronic one that monitors it every hour. * I've never seen it ever go
above 9pcI here...for years now * I even occasionally send charcol packets
for lab analysis that confirm that my electronic gauge is very accurate.
Im almost at the point where I dont care anymore and im just going to live
with it. *Normal levels in Canada for the longest time used to be 20 pcI or
under. *They recently lowered the legal level to 5 pcI. *Yet the u.s. level
is 4 pcI . *Is this going to change all the time ? * I mean its not like I
have 5000 pcI like some houses out there.

I have a bi-level house. * I cant have a mitigation system installed since I
have no gravel underneath the foundation for the gas to breathe through. I
heard this was common with bi-levels. *My house was built in 1993. *I also
have radiant heating...another pain in the ass thing that the mitigation
installers around here dont want to mess with... *and plus with the wood
flooring installed, the only place would be the garage to install the
mitigation...and thats another problem since nobody knows if the garage is
on a seperate slab of concrete then the main floor. *The vaccum effect
wouldnt work if its on another slab. * *Plus theres no gravel underneath.

So I decided to take matters into my own hands today and dug underneath my
foundation -

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...r/DSC00532.jpg

It took me 2 hours to get around these boulders of rocks with a hand
shovel.. (not seen in picture) *The point I stopped at was right when the
thunder storm moved in. *But im pretty sure im under the foundation ? * Any
advice to do from here on out would be much appreciated. *I left it like
that for now. (dont worry the storm moved by quick...barely any rain)
Maybe stick a pipe underneath there?....put the dirt back and see if the
levels drop ? * Why bother with a mitigation system for that section when I
dont have gravel underneath ? * Plus if I did have a gravel layer it would
probably show up in that pic anyway right ?

I feel exhaused with my efforts....and exhaused from the uncertainty from
the 2 different mitigation estimate people i've been dealing with. * Both
people just didnt have a definate answer on what would work... And I hate
crap like that when their like "well....we can drill one hole here...and see
if that works....if that doesnt work....wellllllllllllllll...........we can
drill another hole............and welllllll...........if that doesnt
work............we can try something else..................and if that
doesnt work.......... , etc, etc... * by that time I had a brain tumor and
told them to leave. * *I just want it to be fixed and done with, but that is
not possible with radon. *especially with my situation. * *Very aggravating.

I've also heard that the only governmental radon / lung cancer studies that
have EVER been done have been with Miners. *People that work thousands of
feet underground... of course their going to have problems. * Theres never
been any household radon / lung cancer studies done... EVER. * *Sometimes I
think its a whole corrupt government thing. *Maybe the Real studies
indicated that anything under 10 pcI is completely safe. *But if they
officially say it has to be under 4 pcI....when then they make a whole lot
more money that way. * A whole lot more houses end up above the legal
limits.

Sorry for all my blabber, im mostly looking into any positive insight on
what I can do with that hole I dug. * (I sense sarcastic remarks incoming)

Seriously, I appreciate any insight. * I really dont know what to do anymore
with this radon.

I have looked into the radon thing a few times, and there has never
been mention of gravel under the slab as being a requirement for a
successful fan-based mitiogation system.

Dave

john wrote:
warning....pretty long post

I am so fed up with Radon right now I dont know what to do. I
completely sealed every single crack with poleurothane chaulking. 6 mm
plastic sheeting down , padding down , 1/2 think laminated wood
flooring down... Wood trim sealed with chaulking on top and on bottom.



Have you considered an air exchanger. Draw air from the basement and
vent it outside. Bring fresh outside air in to the house upstairs.
With a slight negative pressure in the basement and a slight positive
pressure upstairs the radon may be kept out of the living areas and be
diluted by the air moving into the basement from the rest of the house.

I have an air exchanger and run it 24/7/365.

LdB

Before we knew of radon and had radon testing equipment, we had nothing.
And people have lived a very long time in homes that had never been
tested.

They lived with asbestos, lead and radon. Chances are, if your ancestors
had longevity you will too. Unless of course you're the exception
because you spent half your nights worrying about something your
ancestors never had to..

Open a window, breathe in the air and enjoy life....

On Jul 18, 5:06�am, (Charles Pisano) wrote:
Before we knew of radon and had radon testing equipment, we had nothing.
And people have lived a very long time in homes that had never been
tested.

They lived with asbestos, lead and radon. Chances are, if your ancestors
had longevity you will too. Unless of course you're the exception
because you spent half your nights worrying about something your
ancestors never had to..

Open a window, breathe in the air and enjoy life....

except if you weant to sell a home with high radon levels.

yep the radon is coming up around the perimeter, thru the walls and
even thru the block.

so hw much ere the estimates?

the radon mitigation should of been done BEFORE inishing the space:
( now it will cost more

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:06:40 -0400, "john"
wrote Re Fed up with Radon:

I've also heard that the only governmental radon / lung cancer studies that
have EVER been done have been with Miners. People that work thousands of
feet underground... of course their going to have problems. Theres never
been any household radon / lung cancer studies done... EVER.

This is correct. Do you know why they have never done household radon
cancer studies? Because if they did the studies they would not find
any cancers. Now THAT would be a big problem because....

Sometimes I
think its a whole corrupt government thing. Maybe the Real studies
indicated that anything under 10 pcI is completely safe. But if they
officially say it has to be under 4 pcI....when then they make a whole lot
more money that way. A whole lot more houses end up above the legal
limits.

Right. You got it.

There is now a money vested interest in keeping people afraid of
radon.

In article ,
(Charles Pisano) wrote:

Before we knew of radon and had radon testing equipment, we had nothing.
And people have lived a very long time in homes that had never been
tested.


Up until the last couple of years, there were no studies of
residential radon exposures. ALL of the hooha was based on studies of
occupational exposures of miners and then relating those to residential
exposures (despite things like less air exchange in mines, etc.) The
other big area was relating levels of radon in an area with lung
cancers. The key is big areas and there was no look at individual
exposures.
Finally, I note that radon websites call it the second leading
cause of lung cancer. Meanwhile second-hand smoke websites call it the
second-leading cause of lung cancer.

If it's not

asbestos, or radon, or buried oil tanks, they'll think of something new.



I have an underground oil tank still in use€¦..15 years old. Ill worry
about that in the future sometime.



Do you have a sump pit?



Nope. Its a bi-level. No basement.



the radon mitigation should of been done BEFORE inishing the space.



Trust me, I know. The flooring itself was suppose to reduce the levels to
normal range anyway€¦it didnt. Plus I cant install a mitigation system
there anyway. There is a bathroom fan downstairs€¦thats about it..

In article ,
Caesar Romano wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:06:40 -0400, "john"
wrote Re Fed up with Radon:

I've also heard that the only governmental radon / lung cancer studies that
have EVER been done have been with Miners. People that work thousands of
feet underground... of course their going to have problems. Theres never
been any household radon / lung cancer studies done... EVER.

This is correct. Do you know why they have never done household radon
cancer studies? Because if they did the studies they would not find
any cancers. Now THAT would be a big problem because....

There are some new studies coming out that seem to show household
radon may increase cancers. One is here.
http://radsci1.home.mchsi.com/irlcs.pdf

On Jul 17, 8:06*pm, "john"
wrote:
warning....pretty long post

I am so fed up with Radon right now I dont know what to do. *


I suggest you check with the local pros. What works well in one
area may not work so well in others. I suspect you are going to need
to remove the radon from under the floor. That generally means making
a few holes in the concrete and connecting them to pipes leading
outside. A fan is used to provide a negative pressure to pull it from
under the slab.

john wrote:

warning....pretty long post

I am so fed up with Radon right now I dont know what to do. I completely
sealed every single crack with poleurothane chaulking. 6 mm plastic
sheeting down , padding down , 1/2 think laminated wood flooring down...
Wood trim sealed with chaulking on top and on bottom.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...r/DSC00534.jpg ( a little
blurry )

I've never had any problems with wetness or dampness on that level.

There is absolutely no way at all from the bottom that the radon can come
through. So the only place it could be coming through is through the
drywall via the extreme outer parts of the foundation area. And possibly
from the buildup directly underneath the flooring where it cannot escape.
So its possibly seeping through from underneath the flooring / underneath
the woodtrim / towards the interior drywall. Thats my final conclusion.

I still have the same levels as I had before all this work was done.
Around 5 to 8 pcI . I monitor all the time and even have an accurate
electronic one that monitors it every hour. I've never seen it ever go
above 9pcI here...for years now I even occasionally send charcol packets
for lab analysis that confirm that my electronic gauge is very accurate.
Im almost at the point where I dont care anymore and im just going to live
with it. Normal levels in Canada for the longest time used to be 20 pcI
or
under. They recently lowered the legal level to 5 pcI. Yet the u.s.
level
is 4 pcI . Is this going to change all the time ? I mean its not like I
have 5000 pcI like some houses out there.

I have a bi-level house. I cant have a mitigation system installed since
I have no gravel underneath the foundation for the gas to breathe through.
I
heard this was common with bi-levels. My house was built in 1993. I also
have radiant heating...another pain in the ass thing that the mitigation
installers around here dont want to mess with... and plus with the wood
flooring installed, the only place would be the garage to install the
mitigation...and thats another problem since nobody knows if the garage is
on a seperate slab of concrete then the main floor. The vaccum effect
wouldnt work if its on another slab. Plus theres no gravel underneath.

So I decided to take matters into my own hands today and dug underneath my
foundation -

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...r/DSC00532.jpg

It took me 2 hours to get around these boulders of rocks with a hand
shovel.. (not seen in picture) The point I stopped at was right when the
thunder storm moved in. But im pretty sure im under the foundation ?
Any
advice to do from here on out would be much appreciated. I left it like
that for now. (dont worry the storm moved by quick...barely any rain)
Maybe stick a pipe underneath there?....put the dirt back and see if the
levels drop ? Why bother with a mitigation system for that section when
I
dont have gravel underneath ? Plus if I did have a gravel layer it would
probably show up in that pic anyway right ?

I feel exhaused with my efforts....and exhaused from the uncertainty from
the 2 different mitigation estimate people i've been dealing with. Both
people just didnt have a definate answer on what would work... And I hate
crap like that when their like "well....we can drill one hole here...and
see if that works....if that doesnt
work....wellllllllllllllll...........we can drill another
hole............and welllllll...........if that doesnt work............we
can try something else..................and if that
doesnt work.......... , etc, etc... by that time I had a brain tumor and
told them to leave. I just want it to be fixed and done with, but that
is
not possible with radon. especially with my situation. Very
aggravating.

I've also heard that the only governmental radon / lung cancer studies
that
have EVER been done have been with Miners. People that work thousands of
feet underground... of course their going to have problems. Theres never
been any household radon / lung cancer studies done... EVER. Sometimes
I
think its a whole corrupt government thing. Maybe the Real studies
indicated that anything under 10 pcI is completely safe. But if they
officially say it has to be under 4 pcI....when then they make a whole lot
more money that way. A whole lot more houses end up above the legal
limits.

Sorry for all my blabber, im mostly looking into any positive insight on
what I can do with that hole I dug. (I sense sarcastic remarks incoming)

Seriously, I appreciate any insight. I really dont know what to do
anymore with this radon.

This has to be one of the longest trolls I have ever seen. Plus its got a
picture, ROFL.

Seriously, it only takes a rudimentary check to know that you can't seal
radon out of your house...


CL

did OP ask this question awhile ago before doing all the floor work?
someone did and was told radon should be fixed before finishing space.

too many want look pretty befor fixing key essentials. like laminate
flooring in a basement that only takes in water every few years.

If you have access to under your home from outside, a electric drill
with extensions can drill a one inch hole 20 feet easily, and 40 feet
with patience. if the home sits above grade drill some holes, leave
dug area open and see if radon levels drop.

radon is heavier than air, and should naturally migrate out the holes

so how much are the mitigation estimates?

On Jul 18, 5:18*pm, " wrote:
did OP ask this question awhile ago before doing all the floor work?
someone did and was told radon should be fixed before finishing space.

too many want look pretty befor fixing key essentials. like laminate
flooring in a basement that only takes in water every few years.

If you have access to under your home from outside, a electric drill
with extensions can drill a one inch hole 20 feet easily, and 40 feet
with patience. if the home sits above grade drill some holes, leave
dug area open and see if radon levels drop.

radon is heavier than air, and should naturally migrate out the holes

so how much are the mitigation estimates?
to the op

your stratagy should be to INCREASE the air pressure in the lower part
of your house (i.e. pump IN fresh air) and try to LOWER it under the
floor..

You want to try to get that air moving the opposite direction.

Anything that consumes air in your home such as the furnace or dryer
or an exhaust fan is lowering the air pressure inside and is working
against you.

Mark

On Jul 18, 5:44�pm, Mark wrote:
On Jul 18, 5:18�pm, " wrote: did OP ask this question awhile ago before doing all the floor work?
someone did and was told radon should be fixed before finishing space.

too many want look pretty befor fixing key essentials. like laminate
flooring in a basement that only takes in water every few years.

If you have access to under your home from outside, a electric drill
with extensions can drill a one inch hole 20 feet easily, and 40 feet
with patience. if the home sits above grade drill some holes, leave
dug area open and see if radon levels drop.

radon is heavier than air, and should naturally migrate out the holes

so how much are the mitigation estimates?

to the op

your stratagy should be to INCREASE the air pressure in the lower part
of your house (i.e. pump IN fresh air) and try to LOWER it under the
floor..

You want to try to get that air moving the opposite direction.

Anything �that consumes �air in your home such as the furnace or dryer
or an exhaust fan is lowering the air pressure inside and is working
against you.

Mark

thats true but at home resale time they wouldnt allow you to ventilate
the area in any way.

but ventil;ating under the slab may do the job

Haller, good recomendation.

But is your method an official one on reducing radon levels ? Maybe the
inspector wouldnt approve. I dug an inch or 2 deeper then whats in the
picture today.. Got under there with one of those Rebar (used to make
concrete stronger) bars and hammered it further down under there to try to
get more open space for the gas to release out from. So far it seems to be
working. Levels have been dropping very slowly all day without even
drilling any holes. Maybe I could get away without even having to drill
holes ? Just stick a 1 inch stainless steel , galvenized pipe under then on
a 45 degree angle and fill the rest back up with dirt...so the gas could
breathe out ? But so far im just leaving everything dug out for now. Your
drilling idea has me thinkin though. Im just now sure if it would pass
inspection that way.

The mitigation estimates were around $800 and the outdoor one was like
$1100. But even with those, there are alot of consequences as I mentioned
in the IP. Even installing a mitigation fan outdoors here wouldnt be a
good idea. Live in the pocono mountains (pennsylvania). Gets to negative
10 degrees here sometimes in the winter.

your stratagy should be to INCREASE the air pressure in the lower part
of your house (i.e. pump IN fresh air) and try to LOWER it under the
floor..

I appreciate this idea as well , Mark. But how to increase and keep the
pressure higher in the lower floor ? Not an easy thing to keep pressure
high on the lower floor... even just opening the windows for fresh air
would seem to screw that method up.

On Jul 18, 9:43�pm, "john"
wrote:
Haller, good recomendation.

But is your method an official one on reducing radon levels ? �Maybe the
inspector wouldnt approve. �I dug an inch or 2 deeper then whats in the
picture today.. �Got under there with one of those Rebar (used to make
concrete stronger) bars and hammered it further down under there to try to
get more open space for the gas to release out from. �So far it seems to be
working. �Levels have been dropping very slowly all day without even
drilling any holes. � �Maybe I could get away without even having to drill
holes ? �Just stick a 1 inch stainless steel , galvenized pipe under then on
a 45 degree angle and fill the rest back up with dirt...so the gas could
breathe out ? �But so far im just leaving everything dug out for now. � Your
drilling idea has me thinkin though. � Im just now sure if it would pass
inspection that way.

The mitigation estimates were around $800 and the outdoor one was like
$1100. � �But even with those, there are alot of consequences as I mentioned
in the IP. � Even installing a mitigation fan outdoors here wouldnt be a
good idea. �Live in the pocono mountains (pennsylvania). �Gets to negative
10 degrees here sometimes in the winter.

your stratagy should be to INCREASE the air pressure in the lower part
of your house (i.e. pump IN fresh air) and try to LOWER it under the
floor..

I appreciate this idea as well , Mark. � But how to increase and keep the
pressure higher in the lower floor ? �Not an easy thing to keep pressure
high on the lower floor... �even just opening the windows for fresh air
would seem to screw that method up.

the passive radon control if done propewrly should work fine.

a home inspector should require a radon test by a seperate testing
agency.

if you pass no inspection of the system should be necessary. just like
if all the work you already did had solved the radon problem. what
would they test?

I woud do overkill and do some drilling, its actually suprisingly easy
to drill under a slab.

then put a PVC pipe in the hole, paint it brown, and practically cover
with dirt grass.

say its part of a underslab drain. just dont talk about what its
draining

the 800 buck radon system is cheap. you could do that too for
appearances........

if your planning on selling..

get your home inspected, you likely have other issues that need fixed.
which you can do yourself or have done at low cost.

once a buyer gets your home inspected they will demand receipts from
registered electricians plumbers etc.........

way more costly and upsetting to the new buyer

When you say drill, your talking about under the slab into the dirt right ?
Im guessing home depot has these 20 foot extensions ? im already having
decent results with only about a 3 foot penetration. But your method seems
more logical.

Dirt grass...you mean something like hay ?

I was thinking about cutting out a wire fence just underneath the hay so no
animals get caught in there....or decide to call it their home.

say its part of a underslab drain. just dont talk about what its
draining

yea, but they'd probably ask..

Something I just thought about... when they run the septic lines...they dont
run them under the foundation do they ? Trying to think if theres something
under there that I might hit with the drill. Because the whole is pretty
close to the septic pipe. Im just not sure exactly where...doubt it would
be under the foundation right ? Probably a super noobish question.

john wrote:
When you say drill, your talking about under the slab into the dirt
right ? Im guessing home depot has these 20 foot extensions ? im
already having decent results with only about a 3 foot penetration.
But your method seems more logical.

Dirt grass...you mean something like hay ?

I was thinking about cutting out a wire fence just underneath the hay so
no animals get caught in there....or decide to call it their home.

say its part of a underslab drain. just dont talk about what its
draining

yea, but they'd probably ask..

Something I just thought about... when they run the septic lines...they
dont run them under the foundation do they ? Trying to think if theres
something under there that I might hit with the drill. Because the
whole is pretty close to the septic pipe. Im just not sure exactly
where...doubt it would be under the foundation right ? Probably a super
noobish question.


They're not supposed to be. The fields are usually in the back yards,
especially when you have a well, which would be in the front yard, or in
any case, at the opposite part of one or the other.

They're not supposed to be. The fields are usually in the back yards,
especially when you have a well, which would be in the front yard, or in
any case, at the opposite part of one or the other.

even if they were...they wouldnt be underneath the foundation of the house
right ? I doubt anything goes there.

btw, anybody know where to buy a 10 foot drill bit extension ? The biggest
one I see online is 1 foot. Not quite sure how Haller meant a 20 foot
extension. I'd be satisfied with 10 feet.

On Jul 19, 8:15*pm, "john"
wrote:
They're not supposed to be. The fields are usually in the back yards,
especially when you have a well, which would be in the front yard, or in
any case, at the opposite part of one or the other.

even if they were...they wouldnt be underneath the foundation of the house
right ? * I doubt anything goes there.

btw, anybody know where to buy a 10 foot drill bit extension ? * The biggest
one I see online is 1 foot. * *Not quite sure how Haller meant a 20 foot
extension. *I'd be satisfied with 10 feet.

also I forgot to mention in terms of pressure differentials...you want
no hvac RETURNS to be open in the living space near the ground floor,
have them open in the upper floors..... the returns pull air and will
lower the pressure in the living area which can draw in the radon...

Mark

On Jul 19, 8:15�pm, "john"
wrote:
They're not supposed to be. The fields are usually in the back yards,
especially when you have a well, which would be in the front yard, or in
any case, at the opposite part of one or the other.

even if they were...they wouldnt be underneath the foundation of the house
right ? � I doubt anything goes there.

btw, anybody know where to buy a 10 foot drill bit extension ? � The biggest
one I see online is 1 foot. � �Not quite sure how Haller meant a 20 foot
extension. �I'd be satisfied with 10 feet.

electrician drill bits have extensions available, local home depot
sells them. at least 3 feet have seen 6 feet and longer. can also try
a electrical ssupply house

you want to avoid hitting a sewer line.

if i were you i would just spend the bucks and have the pros install
the system for 800 bucks. around here its generally a few thousand.

I have a water problem here, installing interior french drain, part of
thats already in under our new furnace.

our french drain will drain to daylight near the curb, which will
hopefully fix our radon problem too. never had it teasted but all
narby homes have it.

you want to avoid hitting a sewer line.

Yea but most of that is confided within the concrete isnt it ? I always
thought the sewage lines from the house to the septic go out through the
side embedded within the concrete ... ? Or do the lines actually go
underneath the slab as well ?

if i were you i would just spend the bucks and have the pros install
the system for 800 bucks. around here its generally a few thousand.

Like I said , theres many complications with that. If I were to install it
outdoors , the fan would have to be outside...and temps get to -10
faurunheit in the winter here. Fan wouldnt last long. Plus this is an
unusual installation. The only estimates I ever got were for doing the
mitigation system inside....in the garage area. Which wouldnt work anyway.
Not sure if anyone would even work with my current situation.

On Jul 20, 11:12�am, "john"
wrote:
you want to avoid hitting a sewer line.

Yea but most of that is confided within the concrete isnt it ? I always
thought the sewage lines from the house to the septic go out through the
side embedded within the concrete ... ? � Or do the lines actually go
underneath the slab as well ?

if i were you i would just spend the bucks and have the pros install
the system for 800 bucks. around here its generally a few thousand.

Like I said , theres many complications with that. �If I were to install it
outdoors , the fan would have to be outside...and temps get to -10
faurunheit in the winter here. � Fan wouldnt last long. � Plus this is an
unusual installation. �The only estimates I ever got were for doing the
mitigation system inside....in the garage area. �Which wouldnt work anyway.
Not sure if anyone would even work with my current situation.

sewer lines nearly all underground, slab most likely 4 inches, sewer
pipe 4 inch diameter.

lines generally underground, and under slab.

our neighborhood pittsburgh has radon fans, most outdoors,
temperatures blow zero. fans appear to run fine.

if your selling the home, fan life expectancy will be next owners
problem.

one neighbor here put fan in basement, ran exhaust line up thru
chimney originally used for furnace. it was wierd seeing plastic pipe
being inserted in chimney.

The reason im so determined with this method is because its working great so
far as is....without any drill extensions. The levels have come down in
48 hours since I opened that area up under the slab.....from 5.4 pcI (48
hours ago) to 3.9 pcI (currently)....and continues to fall. I've had
closed house conditions the whole time....the only other time i've seen it
drop that quickly is when I had the windows open. So its definately
working... This may even be good advice for any of you to give to others if
you know their having a radon issue.


wrote in message
...
sewer lines nearly all underground, slab most likely 4 inches, sewer
pipe 4 inch diameter.

lines generally underground, and under slab.

crap...thats the only issue I have then currently. The area where the
house pipes run out to the septic are right in that area. Maybe if im
careful and just use the extension bit (without anything sharp on the end
of it) i'll be ok. Thats all cast iron and clay piping under there im
sure....right ? Wouldnt be easy to drill a hole into there.

On Jul 20, 3:50�pm, "john"
wrote:
The reason im so determined with this method is because its working great so
far as is....without any drill extensions. � � The levels have come down in
48 hours since I opened that area up under the slab.....from 5.4 pcI �(48
hours ago) �to 3.9 pcI �(currently)....and continues to fall. � I've had
closed house conditions the whole time....the only other time i've seen it
drop that quickly is when I had the windows open. � So its definately
working... This may even be good advice for any of you to give to others if
you know their having a radon issue.

wrote in message

...

sewer lines nearly all underground, slab most likely 4 inches, sewer
pipe 4 inch diameter.
lines generally underground, and under slab.

crap...thats the only issue I have then currently. � The area where the
house pipes run out to the septic are right in that area. �Maybe if im
careful and just use the extension bit �(without anything sharp on the end
of it) i'll be ok. � Thats all cast iron and clay piping under there im
sure....right ? � Wouldnt be easy to drill a hole into there.

older homes have clay pipe, cast iron very rare. newer homes have
plastic pipe. clay pipe would drill pretty easy

you could do the vent hole in more than one place.

older homes have clay pipe, cast iron very rare. newer homes have
plastic pipe. clay pipe would drill pretty easy

Thats interesting. Thought I read somewhere that they never use plastic
under the house so that it could support the weight of the house and not
crack. Or something like that.

But like I said, my levels are down to 3.5 now and still dropping. Im so
pleased right now. Thanks Haller and others for the help.

My dad brought up a good point on the phone last night...saying I should buy
a plastic elbow connection as well so that the pipes will bend upwards when
installed. Im going to home depot soon...not sure if i'll do the drilling
or not. if so, i'll be careful.

On Jul 21, 9:28�am, "john"
wrote:
older homes have clay pipe, cast iron very rare. newer homes have
plastic pipe. clay pipe would drill pretty easy

Thats interesting. �Thought I read somewhere that they never use plastic
under the house so that it could support the weight of the house and not
crack. �Or something like that.

But like I said, my levels are down to 3.5 now and still dropping. �Im so
pleased right now. � Thanks Haller and others for the help.

My dad brought up a good point on the phone last night...saying I should buy
a plastic elbow connection as well so that the pipes will bend upwards when
installed. � Im going to home depot soon...not sure if i'll do the drilling
or not. � if so, i'll be careful.

you want the pipe to slope downward away from home.... since radon is
heavier than air

I would do a second one....... just to be on the safe side.

this is called passive radon control. no fans no power and nothing to
maintain

wrote in message
...

you want the pipe to slope downward away from home.... since radon is
heavier than air

I would do a second one....... just to be on the safe side.

this is called passive radon control. no fans no power and nothing to
maintain



Mission complete and levels have still been lowering since finishing it up
yesterday afternoon.

pic -

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...r/DSC00539.jpg

I couldnt get 1 inch PCV piping under there so I used 5 1/2 inch PCV pipes
painted black. And used five 45 degree angle plastic elbows close to the
slab connection. I put a long thin rock on top of the pipes before
pouring the dirt in. So far so good.

Haller, this so called Passive Radon Control wouldnt pass inspection if I
said im using it for radon ?

And when you say radon is heavier then air. Dont you mean lighter ? So
that it could escape out ?

Mission complete and levels have still been lowering since finishing it up
yesterday afternoon.

pic -

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...r/DSC00539.jpg

I couldnt get 1 inch PCV piping under there so I used 5 �1/2 inch �PCV pipes
painted black. �And used five 45 degree angle plastic elbows close to the
slab connection. � � I put a long thin rock on top of the pipes before
pouring the dirt in. � So far so good.

Haller, this so called Passive Radon Control wouldnt pass inspection if I
said im using it for radon ?

And when you say radon is heavier then air. �Dont you mean lighter ? � So
that it could escape out ?

radon gas is heavier than air, you want the pipe utlets pointing down.

looks like yours are up in air

at home sales time buyer will have radon test. if it comes back ok,
then why worry?

you shopuld probably tell them what the pipe does, but the buyer will
be more interested in the level.

radon is much heavier than air and actually pushed up from
underground.

the proof of this is.

if radon were lighter than air, a plain vent to the roof with no fan
would carry it away