I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

On Feb 8, 4:55�pm, Jo - the girl wrote:
I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

they will just borrow the box.........

if you have the space get something like a pickup truck box made of
diamondplate and lock your tools in that.

no matter what if they want it bad enough its gone.

my best friend keeps all his tools locked up, after having to replace
them too often

On Feb 8, 3:55*pm, Jo - the girl wrote:
I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

If your 'friends' would rip open a tool box to 'borrow' what they
need, simply get the biggest thing with a lock that you can lift
(Sears isn't too bad for this) and chain it to something permanent in
the house, like a drain pipe. Adopt a policy of getting a deposit
equal to the tool cost upfront before the item leaves home and then
deduct something reasonable from that if they bring it back on time
and in perfect condition. Consider it just a means of retraining some
individuals who have gotten a bit inconsiderate over the years. You
stand to gain a lot of respect, you tool collection will be intact and
you won't lose any friends that really matter. HTH


Joe

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:55:57 -0800 (PST), Jo - the girl
wrote:

I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

Have serious sit-down talk with your *housemates, friends, and
family*.

As others imply, the box can grow legs and walk off


Oren
--

Oren wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:55:57 -0800 (PST), Jo - the girl
wrote:


I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?


Have serious sit-down talk with your *housemates, friends, and
family*.

As others imply, the box can grow legs and walk off


Oren
--

get a Dremel and engrave your name/other identifying mark on all your tools.

nate

(my grandpa was #234 at the mill he worked at... I'm reminded of this
every time I grab a wrench)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:58:22 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

get a Dremel and engrave your name/other identifying mark on all your tools.

Smaller tools use bin cards and inventory. Hard to etch dental tools


Oren
--

"Jo - the girl" wrote in message
...
I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?



When I used to do work in New York City I would keep my tools in a steel
tool box with a padlock. I would also use another padlock on a 20' steel
aircraft cable with hoops that I would loop through the toolbox handle and
lock it down to where ever I was working. I wouldn't recommend a plastic
toolbox if you want security. Sears used to have some steel boxes around
the size that you are looking for with a provision for a padlock.

"Jo - the girl" wrote in message
...
I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

Get a sturdy toolbox of either metal or composite, then paint it pink with
little daisies for decoration. That should keep most of the men from
breaking into it. If you don't think that's enough disincentive, use a
permanent marker and write something like "Jo's Sewing Supplies" or even,
"Emergency Tampax supply" on the top. No one will touch it.

wrote:
On Feb 8, 4:55�pm, Jo - the girl wrote:
I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

they will just borrow the box.........

if you have the space get something like a pickup truck box made of
diamondplate and lock your tools in that.

no matter what if they want it bad enough its gone.

my best friend keeps all his tools locked up, after having to replace
them too often


I was going to chain the box to something so it would be impossible
for them to steal it. I just don't know which box would be harder to
get into - plastic or metal.

It's kind of funny because my aunt complains about the same thing. Her
husband and sons take her tools too. She says it's because they can
never find their own. I wonder how some people manage to lose their
tools. I always put things back in their proper place when I'm done
with them, especially if they belong to someone else.

Jo - the girl wrote:

wrote:

On Feb 8, 4:55�pm, Jo - the girl wrote:

I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

they will just borrow the box.........

if you have the space get something like a pickup truck box made of
diamondplate and lock your tools in that.

no matter what if they want it bad enough its gone.

my best friend keeps all his tools locked up, after having to replace
them too often



I was going to chain the box to something so it would be impossible
for them to steal it. I just don't know which box would be harder to
get into - plastic or metal.

It's kind of funny because my aunt complains about the same thing. Her
husband and sons take her tools too. She says it's because they can
never find their own. I wonder how some people manage to lose their
tools. I always put things back in their proper place when I'm done
with them, especially if they belong to someone else.

Lack of storage space. I have three roll cabinets, and that's still not
enough to hold all my tools, so some inevitably end up in cardboard
boxes or on shelves in the garage or...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Jo - the girl wrote in news:190703c0-55e9-4b82-
:



wrote:
On Feb 8, 4:55�pm, Jo - the girl wrote:
I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

they will just borrow the box.........

if you have the space get something like a pickup truck box made of
diamondplate and lock your tools in that.

no matter what if they want it bad enough its gone.

my best friend keeps all his tools locked up, after having to replace
them too often


I was going to chain the box to something so it would be impossible
for them to steal it. I just don't know which box would be harder to
get into - plastic or metal.

OF COURSE an all-metal toolbox will be harder to break into than a plastic
box.
Plastic also degrades over time,becomes brittle.


It's kind of funny because my aunt complains about the same thing. Her
husband and sons take her tools too. She says it's because they can
never find their own. I wonder how some people manage to lose their
tools. I always put things back in their proper place when I'm done
with them, especially if they belong to someone else.


ADMIRABLE.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Jo - the girl" wrote in message
...


wrote:
On Feb 8, 4:55?pm, Jo - the girl wrote:
I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

they will just borrow the box.........

if you have the space get something like a pickup truck box made of
diamondplate and lock your tools in that.

no matter what if they want it bad enough its gone.

my best friend keeps all his tools locked up, after having to replace
them too often


I was going to chain the box to something so it would be impossible
for them to steal it. I just don't know which box would be harder to
get into - plastic or metal.

==============


If you can't figure out which box would be harder to vandalize, you are too
stupid to touch any tool more dangerous than a spoon.

On Feb 8, 3:55*pm, Jo - the girl wrote:
I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

Wow I think it is esier to talk to the people. However talk to them
and if that doesn't help think about other thincs.

http://www.planorealestateadvisor.com
http//www.planorealty.blogspot.com

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:55:57 -0800 (PST), Jo - the girl
wrote:

I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?


Get one of those roll around lockable metal tool cabinets--lots of
sizes available. I have a portable tool box, but it is empty and
ready to load up with the tools I need for the next job. I'm not
about to loan out my expensive tools to be kept or abused. If you
have your tools well-organized you can tell at a glance what is
missing.

Jo - the girl wrote:
I always put things back in their proper place when I'm done
with them, especially if they belong to someone else.

That doesn't always work. A while back I lost my electrician's pliers.
I looked everywhere. Then one day I looked up at the rack above the
work bench, where I am supposed to keep them, and there they were. I
had been trying to figure where I used them the last time so I could
go there and find them.

Bill Gill

I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

If you've got friends who'll go to that extent to get a tool in a locked
box, you have other problems than a missing tool or two.

--

Regards,

Twayne

OO0 is a GREAT MS Office replacement
www.openoffice.org

Please respond to the newsgroup, not to
my e-mail, so that all may benefit. I do not
always respond to newsgroup e-mails.

On Feb 9, 1:16�pm, "Twayne" wrote:
I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

If you've got friends who'll go to that extent to get a tool in a locked
box, you have other problems than �a missing tool or two.

--

Regards,

Twayne

OO0 is a GREAT MS Office replacementwww.openoffice.org

Please respond to the newsgroup, not to
my e-mail, so that all may benefit. �I do not
always respond to newsgroup e-mails.

you could lock the tools up, but play nice and leave a bunch of harbor
freight specials for your friends use.

a obvious unasked question? what tools and values?

In article
,
Jo - the girl wrote:

I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking my
tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to get
some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

I think a metal box is the answer. Put a motorcycle battery in it,
hooked up to a dozen 10,000 uF capacitors connected to the box. That
should discourage the rascals. You might need a secret way to discharge
them when *you* need a tool, though.

In article
,
Jo - the girl wrote:

I'm really tired of people (housemates, friends, and family) taking
my tools without permission and then failing to return them. I go to
get some pliars or something and they're not there, it's really
annoying.

I need a small portable toolbox/hand box for my tools and need an
opinion. I'm looking for one that's about 16 inches that I can put a
padlock on. After looking at a few it occurred to me that a padlock
might not keep people out. Some of the hinges on the plastic ones
appear big enough that you could push the pins out and open it up at
the hinges even if it had a padlock. What I'm wondering is how
difficult it would be to do that? Would a metal box be more difficult
to get into or does it depend?

I think a metal box is the answer. Put a motorcycle battery in it,
hooked up to a dozen 10,000 uF capacitors connected to the box. That
should discourage the rascals. You might need a secret way to
discharge them when *you* need a tool, though.

A dozen 10000 UFd caps charged up to the voltage of a motorcycle battery
will do ... absolutely nothing. 12V DC is harmless.

--

Regards,

Twayne

OO0 is a GREAT MS Office replacement
www.openoffice.org

Please respond to the newsgroup, not to
my e-mail, so that all may benefit. I do not
always respond to newsgroup e-mails.

Smitty Two writes:

A dozen 10000 UFd caps charged up to the voltage of a motorcycle battery
will do ... absolutely nothing. 12V DC is harmless.

Is that so? I'd invite you to try it yourself, with just *one* cap. Then
tell me how harmless it is.

What do you *think* it will do?

I have here an 82,000 uF capacitor, charged to 12 V. I can touch it
with my fingers and feel nothing. In fact, I just did. 12 V does not
cause enough current flow through (dry) skin resistance to be felt at
all.

Now, if I dropped a piece of fine wire across the terminals of the
capacitor, there would be a bang and a flash as the wire evaporated.
There's enough energy in the capacitor to do damage when connected to a
low-resistance load. But that's not true of skin contact.

And in most circumstances, this capacitor doesn't store enough energy to
cause much damage to low-resistance things either. If I dropped a piece
of heavy copper wire or a wrench across the terminals, there would be a
spark and some visible arc damage, but the wire or wrench would not get
noticeably warmer. A 12 V lead-acid battery is *much* more dangerous to
get a low-resistance load across, since there's enough energy to get
substantial-sized things very hot.

Dave

On Feb 10, 2:25*am, (Dave Martindale) wrote:
Smitty Two writes:
A dozen 10000 UFd caps charged up to the voltage of a motorcycle battery
will do ... absolutely nothing. *12V DC is harmless.
Is that so? I'd invite you to try it yourself, with just *one* cap. Then
tell me how harmless it is.

What do you *think* it will do?

I have here an 82,000 uF capacitor, charged to 12 V. *I can touch it
with my fingers and feel nothing. *In fact, I just did. *12 V does not
cause enough current flow through (dry) skin resistance to be felt at
all.

Now, if I dropped a piece of fine wire across the terminals of the
capacitor, there would be a bang and a flash as the wire evaporated.
There's enough energy in the capacitor to do damage when connected to a
low-resistance load. *But that's not true of skin contact.

And in most circumstances, this capacitor doesn't store enough energy to
cause much damage to low-resistance things either. *If I dropped a piece
of heavy copper wire or a wrench across the terminals, there would be a
spark and some visible arc damage, but the wire or wrench would not get
noticeably warmer. *A 12 V lead-acid battery is *much* more dangerous to
get a low-resistance load across, since there's enough energy to get
substantial-sized things very hot.

* * * * Dave

If I dropped a piece of heavy copper wire or a wrench across the
terminals, there would be a spark...

When I was in the Coast Guard back in the late 70's we used to have
"safety meetings" for the newbies to show them why they shouldn't
enter the transmitter building without a trained transmitter tech.

First, we'd explain to them that the transmitters used a 15KV power
supply. Then we'd take a 5 farad, oil filled cap and hook the strap of
a grounding stick to one side. (A grounding stick has a long wooden
handle with a metal rod sticking of it and grounding strap with a
large clip. Before you worked on the transmitters, you'd clip the
strap to a ground and tap the big caps with the rod to make sure they
were fully discharged. The metal rod was hooked so it could be used as
a dead-man stick if needed.)

Next we used a high-pot to charge the cap up to 6 KV or so. Finally
we'd turn off the lights and tap the other side of the cap with the
grounding rod. The resulting noise, spark and smoke was usually enough
to convince even the most grizzled Boatswain's Mate that the
transmitter building was a dangerous place to hang out.

One time the "lesson" blew the metal rod out of the wooden handle,
essentially stripping the 3 inches of threads inside the handle. That
one even scared us!

On Feb 11, 4:37*pm, "Jimmie D" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Feb 10, 2:25 am, (Dave Martindale) wrote:





Smitty Two writes:
A dozen 10000 UFd caps charged up to the voltage of a motorcycle
battery
will do ... absolutely nothing. 12V DC is harmless.
Is that so? I'd invite you to try it yourself, with just *one* cap. Then
tell me how harmless it is.

What do you *think* it will do?

I have here an 82,000 uF capacitor, charged to 12 V. I can touch it
with my fingers and feel nothing. In fact, I just did. 12 V does not
cause enough current flow through (dry) skin resistance to be felt at
all.

Now, if I dropped a piece of fine wire across the terminals of the
capacitor, there would be a bang and a flash as the wire evaporated.
There's enough energy in the capacitor to do damage when connected to a
low-resistance load. But that's not true of skin contact.

And in most circumstances, this capacitor doesn't store enough energy to
cause much damage to low-resistance things either. If I dropped a piece
of heavy copper wire or a wrench across the terminals, there would be a
spark and some visible arc damage, but the wire or wrench would not get
noticeably warmer. A 12 V lead-acid battery is *much* more dangerous to
get a low-resistance load across, since there's enough energy to get
substantial-sized things very hot.

Dave

*If I dropped a piece of heavy copper wire or a wrench across the
terminals, there would be a spark...

When I was in the Coast Guard back in the late 70's we used to have
"safety meetings" for the newbies to show them why they shouldn't
enter the transmitter building without a trained transmitter tech.

First, we'd explain to them that the transmitters used a 15KV power
supply. Then we'd take a 5 farad, oil filled cap and hook the strap of
a grounding stick to one side. (A grounding stick has a long wooden
handle with a metal rod sticking of it and grounding strap with a
large clip. Before you worked on the transmitters, you'd clip the
strap to a ground and tap the big caps with the rod to make sure they
were fully discharged. The metal rod was hooked so it could be used as
a dead-man stick if needed.)

Next we used a high-pot to charge the cap up to 6 KV or so. Finally
we'd turn off the lights and tap the other side of the cap with the
grounding rod. The resulting noise, spark and smoke was usually enough
to convince even the most grizzled Boatswain's Mate that the
transmitter building was a dangerous place to hang out.

One time the "lesson" blew the metal rod out of the wooden handle,
essentially stripping the 3 inches of threads inside the handle. That
one even scared us!

When I was in AF the radar shop did a similar show and tell. The last time
they did it someone for got to shut down the equipment first.

Jimmie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Our show and tell was done with spare components outside the
transmitters. We weren't about to take a chance of damaging the
transmitters.

Any off air period over 60 seconds in duration destroyed your chances
for a "perfect month" - 100% up time in a calendar month. We went 7
months straight with out any down time longer than 60 seconds. Still
got the ribbon (somewhere!) that the transmiter crew was awarded by
the USCG for that accomplishment. That time frame included a fire in
the on-air transmitter. Luckily we were just buttoning up the stand-by
unit and managed to bring it on-line in 45 seconds - with a few panels
missing and a couple of interlocks cheated out.

The run ended when lightening hit the 1/4 mile tall tower and fried
both the transmitter coupler and output section of *both*
transmitters. 7 months with no downtime followed by 2 weeks off-air
while we repaired the equipment. It was the first time I had ever
experienced dead silence in a transmitter building. It was not a good
feeling.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Feb 11, 4:37 pm, "Jimmie D" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Feb 10, 2:25 am, (Dave Martindale) wrote:





Smitty Two writes:
A dozen 10000 UFd caps charged up to the voltage of a motorcycle
battery
will do ... absolutely nothing. 12V DC is harmless.
Is that so? I'd invite you to try it yourself, with just *one* cap.
Then
tell me how harmless it is.

What do you *think* it will do?

I have here an 82,000 uF capacitor, charged to 12 V. I can touch it
with my fingers and feel nothing. In fact, I just did. 12 V does not
cause enough current flow through (dry) skin resistance to be felt at
all.

Now, if I dropped a piece of fine wire across the terminals of the
capacitor, there would be a bang and a flash as the wire evaporated.
There's enough energy in the capacitor to do damage when connected to a
low-resistance load. But that's not true of skin contact.

And in most circumstances, this capacitor doesn't store enough energy to
cause much damage to low-resistance things either. If I dropped a piece
of heavy copper wire or a wrench across the terminals, there would be a
spark and some visible arc damage, but the wire or wrench would not get
noticeably warmer. A 12 V lead-acid battery is *much* more dangerous to
get a low-resistance load across, since there's enough energy to get
substantial-sized things very hot.

Dave

If I dropped a piece of heavy copper wire or a wrench across the
terminals, there would be a spark...

When I was in the Coast Guard back in the late 70's we used to have
"safety meetings" for the newbies to show them why they shouldn't
enter the transmitter building without a trained transmitter tech.

First, we'd explain to them that the transmitters used a 15KV power
supply. Then we'd take a 5 farad, oil filled cap and hook the strap of
a grounding stick to one side. (A grounding stick has a long wooden
handle with a metal rod sticking of it and grounding strap with a
large clip. Before you worked on the transmitters, you'd clip the
strap to a ground and tap the big caps with the rod to make sure they
were fully discharged. The metal rod was hooked so it could be used as
a dead-man stick if needed.)

Next we used a high-pot to charge the cap up to 6 KV or so. Finally
we'd turn off the lights and tap the other side of the cap with the
grounding rod. The resulting noise, spark and smoke was usually enough
to convince even the most grizzled Boatswain's Mate that the
transmitter building was a dangerous place to hang out.

One time the "lesson" blew the metal rod out of the wooden handle,
essentially stripping the 3 inches of threads inside the handle. That
one even scared us!

When I was in AF the radar shop did a similar show and tell. The last time
they did it someone for got to shut down the equipment first.

Jimmie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Our show and tell was done with spare components outside the
transmitters. We weren't about to take a chance of damaging the
transmitters.

Any off air period over 60 seconds in duration destroyed your chances
for a "perfect month" - 100% up time in a calendar month. We went 7
months straight with out any down time longer than 60 seconds. Still
got the ribbon (somewhere!) that the transmiter crew was awarded by
the USCG for that accomplishment. That time frame included a fire in
the on-air transmitter. Luckily we were just buttoning up the stand-by
unit and managed to bring it on-line in 45 seconds - with a few panels
missing and a couple of interlocks cheated out.

The run ended when lightening hit the 1/4 mile tall tower and fried
both the transmitter coupler and output section of *both*
transmitters. 7 months with no downtime followed by 2 weeks off-air
while we repaired the equipment. It was the first time I had ever
experienced dead silence in a transmitter building. It was not a good
feeling.

===================


Big deal. Can you fix a VCR? :-)

In article ,
(Dave Martindale) wrote:

Smitty Two writes:

A dozen 10000 UFd caps charged up to the voltage of a motorcycle battery
will do ... absolutely nothing. 12V DC is harmless.

Is that so? I'd invite you to try it yourself, with just *one* cap. Then
tell me how harmless it is.

What do you *think* it will do?

I have here an 82,000 uF capacitor, charged to 12 V. I can touch it
with my fingers and feel nothing. In fact, I just did. 12 V does not
cause enough current flow through (dry) skin resistance to be felt at
all.

Now, if I dropped a piece of fine wire across the terminals of the
capacitor, there would be a bang and a flash as the wire evaporated.
There's enough energy in the capacitor to do damage when connected to a
low-resistance load. But that's not true of skin contact.

And in most circumstances, this capacitor doesn't store enough energy to
cause much damage to low-resistance things either. If I dropped a piece
of heavy copper wire or a wrench across the terminals, there would be a
spark and some visible arc damage, but the wire or wrench would not get
noticeably warmer. A 12 V lead-acid battery is *much* more dangerous to
get a low-resistance load across, since there's enough energy to get
substantial-sized things very hot.

Dave

Thanks Dave, I stand corrected. I made an ASSumption based on some
incomplete information; my experience with caps charged with mere small
batteries can pack a whallop. Now I've had it 'splained to me that
there's a circuit in said devices to boost the voltage...