Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
-The water heater would keep the water hot
-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

I've never seen it done, but I suppose if the boiler has a plate where a
domestic coil would go, an element could be fitted into it. It would have to
be pretty high KW to equal the oil burner BTU output, and of course
controlled by a contactor attached to the aquastat, but it could work. You
could also do it with a heat exchanger as you describe, but it's a bit more
complicated.





"neilsanner" wrote in message
...
Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
-The water heater would keep the water hot
-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

"neilsanner" wrote in message
...
Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
-The water heater would keep the water hot
-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?

Yeah. Don't do it.

There is no way you will get the recovery rate of oil-fired with an
electrical element.

A lot of people are getting ideas like that because the price of oil is so
high. If you want to go electric, you'd be better off putting electric
basboard heaters in all of your rooms (providing you have enough amperage in
your panel, which you probably do not). That would be cheaper than trying to
heat the water in the boiler fast enough to make a hot water baseboard
system keep up with the demand.

If you want to save a little on your oil bill, try a more efficient boiler
OR have a plumber install an electric water heater and tie the lines into
the boiler's domestic lines (isolated with gate or ball valves) . Then in
the summertime (or non-heating season) you can get your domestic hot water
from the electric unit and turn your oil-fired boiler off completely.

Just loosely calculating what I'd need for the equivalent electric BTU
output of my 156500 BTU boiler and it comes to 191 amps @ 240 volt. I don't
know if you'd actually need the full BTU capacity though





"neilsanner" wrote in message
...
Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
-The water heater would keep the water hot
-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:43:54 -0800 (PST), neilsanner
wrote:

Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

Call a Pro and pay to have it done.



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http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

"neilsanner" wrote in message
...
Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Since you don't know the difference between a boiler and a furnace, I doubt
you have the skill to do a major conversion like that. No, you don't drill
any hoes in boilers.

Hint: Boilers heat water; furnaces heat air

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
t...

"neilsanner" wrote in message
...
Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Since you don't know the difference between a boiler and a furnace, I
doubt you have the skill to do a major conversion like that. No, you
don't drill any hoes in boilers.

Hint: Boilers heat water; furnaces heat air

Ed,

You'll never educate non-HVAC people of that. They are always going to call
a boiler a furnace. Actually, the dictionary does not specify whether a
furnace heats the air or water:


fur·nace [ fúrn?ss ] (plural fur·nac·es)
noun

Definition:

1. enclosure producing great heat: a device in which heat is
produced by burning fuel either to warm a building or to undertake an
industrial process such as smelting metal.

Another pet peeve: Hot Water Heater.

It's a water heater. Why would you heat hot water?

On Jan 28, 8:57*am, "Dr. Hardcrab" wrote:
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message

t...







"neilsanner" wrote in message
...
Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Since you don't know the difference between a boiler and a furnace, I
doubt you have the skill to do a major conversion like that. *No, you
don't drill any hoes in boilers.

Hint: *Boilers heat water; furnaces heat air

Ed,

You'll never educate non-HVAC people of that. They are always going to call
a boiler a furnace. Actually, the dictionary does not specify whether a
furnace heats the air or water:

* * * * * * fur·nace [ fúrn?ss ] (plural fur·nac·es)
* * * * * * noun

* * * * * * Definition:

* * * * * * 1. enclosure producing great heat: a device in which heat is
produced by burning fuel either to warm a building or to undertake an
industrial process such as smelting metal.

* * * * * * Another pet peeve: Hot Water Heater.

* * * * * * It's a water heater. Why would you heat hot water?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The term "boiler", while most commonly use, had some problems too.
In a steam system, the water does boil. But it a hot water system,
like the OP clearly has, the water only gets heated, not boiled.

On Jan 28, 9:44*am, wrote:
On Jan 28, 8:57*am, "Dr. Hardcrab" wrote:





"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message

et...

"neilsanner" wrote in message
....
Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Since you don't know the difference between a boiler and a furnace, I
doubt you have the skill to do a major conversion like that. *No, you
don't drill any hoes in boilers.

Hint: *Boilers heat water; furnaces heat air

Ed,

You'll never educate non-HVAC people of that. They are always going to call
a boiler a furnace. Actually, the dictionary does not specify whether a
furnace heats the air or water:

* * * * * * fur·nace [ fúrn?ss ] (plural fur·nac·es)
* * * * * * noun

* * * * * * Definition:

* * * * * * 1. enclosure producing great heat: a device in which heat is
produced by burning fuel either to warm a building or to undertake an
industrial process such as smelting metal.

* * * * * * Another pet peeve: Hot Water Heater.

* * * * * * It's a water heater. Why would you heat hot water?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The term "boiler", while most commonly use, had some problems too.
In a steam system, the water does boil. *But it a hot water system,
like the OP clearly has, the water only gets heated, not boiled.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think some boilers can be used for HW heat

RBM wrote:
Just loosely calculating what I'd need for the equivalent electric BTU
output of my 156500 BTU boiler and it comes to 191 amps @ 240 volt. I don't
know if you'd actually need the full BTU capacity though





"neilsanner" wrote in message
...

Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
-The water heater would keep the water hot
-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner



Your 156500 BTU/hr furnace is probably only delivering only 80% in terms
of indoor heat so 150 amps may be a better limit. Do it and watch the
pole transformer smoke.

It's getting close to the point where electric heat will make sense.
Here, at 15 cents per kw-hr its only 58% more than #2 oil. And, I get
almost 100 sq ft back into my shop if I take out the oil tank.

Boden

On Jan 28, 5:49�pm, Boden wrote:
RBM wrote:
Just loosely calculating what I'd need for the equivalent electric BTU
output of my 156500 BTU boiler and it comes to 191 amps @ 240 volt. I don't
know if you'd actually need the full BTU capacity though

"neilsanner" wrote in message
...

Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
-The water heater would keep the water hot
-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

Your 156500 BTU/hr furnace is probably only delivering only 80% in terms
of indoor heat so 150 amps may be a better limit. �Do it and watch the
pole transformer smoke.

It's getting close to the point where electric heat will make sense.
Here, at 15 cents per kw-hr its only 58% more than #2 oil. �And, I get
almost 100 sq ft back into my shop if I take out the oil tank.

Boden- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

yeah BUT much electricity is generated by oil and natural gas, so
electricity will continue to go up in price. you will find they are
kinda lockstepped together.

better move is likely insulation

Help me out here. What does that make the price of oil in your area?




"Boden" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
Just loosely calculating what I'd need for the equivalent electric BTU
output of my 156500 BTU boiler and it comes to 191 amps @ 240 volt. I
don't know if you'd actually need the full BTU capacity though





"neilsanner" wrote in message
...

Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
-The water heater would keep the water hot
-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner



Your 156500 BTU/hr furnace is probably only delivering only 80% in terms
of indoor heat so 150 amps may be a better limit. Do it and watch the
pole transformer smoke.

It's getting close to the point where electric heat will make sense. Here,
at 15 cents per kw-hr its only 58% more than #2 oil. And, I get almost
100 sq ft back into my shop if I take out the oil tank.

Boden

On Jan 27, 1:43*pm, neilsanner wrote:
Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
*-The water heater would keep the water hot
*-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
*-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

Cost of electric heat will eventually = oil cost to heat a home. Our
oil fired HWR system kicked the bucket and we installed an oil / wood
burning combo (http://www.kerrheating.com/products/K4C_SS.htm). It's
the cats ass. And with my summer cottage sitting on 21 acres of
harwood forest I'm laughing. The cherry / oak and ash deadfall gets me
enough to do a year. With an additional woodstove on the main floor I
bet I have oil in the tank from last year. If you have a cheap supply
of firewood available I would reccommend this set up.

On Jan 28, 9:14�pm, jim wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:43�pm, neilsanner wrote:





Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
�-The water heater would keep the water hot
�-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
�-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

Cost of electric heat will eventually = oil cost to heat a home. Our
oil fired HWR system kicked the bucket and we installed an oil / wood
burning combo (http://www.kerrheating.com/products/K4C_SS.htm). It's
the cats ass. And with my summer cottage sitting on 21 acres of
harwood forest I'm laughing. The cherry / oak and ash deadfall gets me
enough to do a year. With an additional woodstove on the main floor I
bet I have oil in the tank from last year. If you have a cheap supply
of firewood available I would reccommend this set up.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

just for the record.............

with firewood you collect it, cut it, split it, stack it, then carry
it in the house burn it, and carry out the ashes. if you must haul by
truck add fuel costs for that.

now whats the value of your time? plus any fuel used, like chainsaw
gas, oil, and hauling vehicle costs plus depreciation, like extra
miles

you might find out a part time job is more effective use of your time,
than all that firewood handling........ might be less work too

On Jan 29, 12:58Â*am, " wrote:
On Jan 28, 9:14�pm, jim wrote:





On Jan 27, 1:43�pm, neilsanner wrote:

Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
�-The water heater would keep the water hot
�-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
�-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

Cost of electric heat will eventually = oil cost to heat a home. Our
oil fired HWR system kicked the bucket and we installed an oil / wood
burning combo (http://www.kerrheating.com/products/K4C_SS.htm). It's
the cats ass. And with my summer cottage sitting on 21 acres of
harwood forest I'm laughing. The cherry / oak and ash deadfall gets me
enough to do a year. With an additional woodstove on the main floor I
bet I have oil in the tank from last year. If you have a cheap supply
of firewood available I would reccommend this set up.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

just for the record.............

with firewood you collect it, cut it, split it, stack it, then carry
it in the house burn it, and carry out the ashes.

Sigh

It's enjoyable excercise. Outdoors in the fresh air, on my own time.
Beats sitting in a gym peddling an excercise bike and going nowhere.

if you must haul by
truck add fuel costs for that.

At the cottage every weekend. Truck and trailer goes along whenever
I'm up there.

now whats the value of your time? plus any fuel used, like chainsaw
gas, oil, and hauling vehicle costs plus depreciation, like extra
miles.

3 people at it. We are able to "process" one cord a weekend. Truck
carries 1 cord. Use 5-6 cords a year - you do the math. By May month
it's all done.


you might find out a part time job is more effective use of your time,

Nope. If I worked a part time job on weekends? I'd rather be boating
and trouting at the cottage from May to October as opposed to slinging
coffee or stocking shelves at Wal Mart. What would you rather do? As
well I make a tidy sum selling hardwood to the woodturners guild which
easily pays for any overhead.

than all that firewood handling........ might be less work too

Naw. I enjoy it. I don't have to do it so it's not work. Now - go turn
up your thermostat.

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jan 29, 7:46Â*am, jim wrote:
On Jan 29, 12:58Â*am, " wrote:





On Jan 28, 9:14�pm, jim wrote:

On Jan 27, 1:43�pm, neilsanner wrote:

Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
�-The water heater would keep the water hot
�-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
�-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

Cost of electric heat will eventually = oil cost to heat a home. Our
oil fired HWR system kicked the bucket and we installed an oil / wood
burning combo (http://www.kerrheating.com/products/K4C_SS.htm). It's
the cats ass. And with my summer cottage sitting on 21 acres of
harwood forest I'm laughing. The cherry / oak and ash deadfall gets me
enough to do a year. With an additional woodstove on the main floor I
bet I have oil in the tank from last year. If you have a cheap supply
of firewood available I would reccommend this set up.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

just for the record.............

with firewood you collect it, cut it, split it, stack it, then carry
it in the house burn it, and carry out the ashes.

Sigh

It's enjoyable excercise. Outdoors in the fresh air, on my own time.
Beats sitting in a gym peddling an excercise bike and going nowhere.

Â*if you must haul by

truck add fuel costs for that.

At the cottage every weekend. Truck and trailer goes along whenever
I'm up there.



now whats the value of your time? plus any fuel used, like chainsaw
gas, oil, and hauling vehicle costs plus depreciation, like extra
miles.

3 people at it. We are able to "process" one cord a weekend. Truck
carries 1 cord. Use 5-6 cords a year - you do the math. By May month
it's all done.



I'd say you just verified hallerb's point. That labor comes to 30-36
man days of labor. Assuming you earned a mere $7 an hour, that's
$1700 - 2000. I heat my 3200 sq ft house here in NJ with gas for a
season for a lot less than that.

And it ignores another big problem, which is pollution. Note, I'm
not saying someone shouldn't use wood if they want to and enjoy doing
it. Only that it's not necessarily the free ride or good solution
for everyone.





you might find out a part time job is more effective use of your time,

Nope. If I worked a part time job on weekends? I'd rather be boating
and trouting at the cottage from May to October as opposed to slinging
coffee or stocking shelves at Wal Mart. What would you rather do? As
well I make a tidy sum selling hardwood to the woodturners guild which
easily pays for any overhead.

than all that firewood handling........ might be less work too

Naw. I enjoy it. I don't have to do it so it's not work. Now - go turn
up your thermostat.

- Hide quoted text -





- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jan 29, 8:05Â*am, wrote:
On Jan 29, 7:46Â*am, jim wrote:





On Jan 29, 12:58Â*am, " wrote:

On Jan 28, 9:14�pm, jim wrote:

On Jan 27, 1:43�pm, neilsanner wrote:

Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
�-The water heater would keep the water hot
�-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
�-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

Cost of electric heat will eventually = oil cost to heat a home. Our
oil fired HWR system kicked the bucket and we installed an oil / wood
burning combo (http://www.kerrheating.com/products/K4C_SS.htm). It's
the cats ass. And with my summer cottage sitting on 21 acres of
harwood forest I'm laughing. The cherry / oak and ash deadfall gets me
enough to do a year. With an additional woodstove on the main floor I
bet I have oil in the tank from last year. If you have a cheap supply
of firewood available I would reccommend this set up.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

just for the record.............

with firewood you collect it, cut it, split it, stack it, then carry
it in the house burn it, and carry out the ashes.

Sigh

It's enjoyable excercise. Outdoors in the fresh air, on my own time.
Beats sitting in a gym peddling an excercise bike and going nowhere.

Â*if you must haul by

truck add fuel costs for that.

At the cottage every weekend. Truck and trailer goes along whenever
I'm up there.

now whats the value of your time? plus any fuel used, like chainsaw
gas, oil, and hauling vehicle costs plus depreciation, like extra
miles.

3 people at it. We are able to "process" one cord a weekend. Truck
carries 1 cord. Use 5-6 cords a year - you do the math. By May month
it's all done.

I'd say you just verified hallerb's point. Â* That labor comes to 30-36
man days of labor. Â*Assuming you earned a mere $7 an hour, that's
$1700 - 2000. Â*I heat my 3200 sq ft house here in NJ with gas for a
season for a lot less than that.

And it ignores another big problem, which is pollution. Â* Note, I'm
not saying someone shouldn't use wood if they want to and enjoy doing
it. Â* Only that it's not necessarily the free ride or good solution
for everyone.





you might find out a part time job is more effective use of your time,

Nope. If I worked a part time job on weekends? I'd rather be boating
and trouting at the cottage from May to October as opposed to slinging
coffee or stocking shelves at Wal Mart. What would you rather do? As
well I make a tidy sum selling hardwood to the woodturners guild which
easily pays for any overhead.

than all that firewood handling........ might be less work too

Naw. I enjoy it. I don't have to do it so it's not work. Now - go turn
up your thermostat.

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

yeah its kinda funny, people crow about how much they save heating
with firewood, and dont mind volunteering the hours worked etc.

but somehow EVERYONE I have ever asked always come back as a fiancial
loser or at best break even.

It would probably be more efficent to work the part time job and
devote 100% of the earnings to superinsulating the home.

insulation pays back forever, without additional work

such upgrades as triple pane windows, 95%+ furnace, and closed cell
foam insulation. Heck even a timer thermostat.

On Jan 29, 10:05Â*am, wrote:
On Jan 29, 7:46Â*am, jim wrote:





On Jan 29, 12:58Â*am, " wrote:

On Jan 28, 9:14�pm, jim wrote:

On Jan 27, 1:43�pm, neilsanner wrote:

Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
�-The water heater would keep the water hot
�-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
�-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

Cost of electric heat will eventually = oil cost to heat a home. Our
oil fired HWR system kicked the bucket and we installed an oil / wood
burning combo (http://www.kerrheating.com/products/K4C_SS.htm). It's
the cats ass. And with my summer cottage sitting on 21 acres of
harwood forest I'm laughing. The cherry / oak and ash deadfall gets me
enough to do a year. With an additional woodstove on the main floor I
bet I have oil in the tank from last year. If you have a cheap supply
of firewood available I would reccommend this set up.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

just for the record.............

with firewood you collect it, cut it, split it, stack it, then carry
it in the house burn it, and carry out the ashes.

Sigh

It's enjoyable excercise. Outdoors in the fresh air, on my own time.
Beats sitting in a gym peddling an excercise bike and going nowhere.

Â*if you must haul by

truck add fuel costs for that.

At the cottage every weekend. Truck and trailer goes along whenever
I'm up there.

now whats the value of your time? plus any fuel used, like chainsaw
gas, oil, and hauling vehicle costs plus depreciation, like extra
miles.

3 people at it. We are able to "process" one cord a weekend. Truck
carries 1 cord. Use 5-6 cords a year - you do the math. By May month
it's all done.

I'd say you just verified hallerb's point. Â* That labor comes to 30-36
man days of labor. Â*Assuming you earned a mere $7 an hour, that's
$1700 - 2000.

I don't see it that way - the cost of labor. I have a growing
greenhouse and a vegetable garden which requires considerable labor to
maintain. Should I not do this?

Â*I heat my 3200 sq ft house here in NJ with gas for a
season for a lot less than that.

And it ignores another big problem, which is pollution.

On my property I only cut deadfall. One cord of wood rotting on the
ground produces the same CO2 as if it were burned in a wood stove.


Â* Note, I'm
not saying someone shouldn't use wood if they want to and enjoy doing
it. Â* Only that it's not necessarily the free ride or good solution
for everyone.

It is for me.





you might find out a part time job is more effective use of your time,

Nope. If I worked a part time job on weekends? I'd rather be boating
and trouting at the cottage from May to October as opposed to slinging
coffee or stocking shelves at Wal Mart. What would you rather do? As
well I make a tidy sum selling hardwood to the woodturners guild which
easily pays for any overhead.

than all that firewood handling........ might be less work too

Naw. I enjoy it. I don't have to do it so it's not work. Now - go turn
up your thermostat.

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jan 29, 10:35Â*am, " wrote:
On Jan 29, 8:05Â*am, wrote:





On Jan 29, 7:46Â*am, jim wrote:

On Jan 29, 12:58Â*am, " wrote:

On Jan 28, 9:14�pm, jim wrote:

On Jan 27, 1:43�pm, neilsanner wrote:

Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
�-The water heater would keep the water hot
�-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
�-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

Cost of electric heat will eventually = oil cost to heat a home. Our
oil fired HWR system kicked the bucket and we installed an oil / wood
burning combo (http://www.kerrheating.com/products/K4C_SS.htm). It's
the cats ass. And with my summer cottage sitting on 21 acres of
harwood forest I'm laughing. The cherry / oak and ash deadfall gets me
enough to do a year. With an additional woodstove on the main floor I
bet I have oil in the tank from last year. If you have a cheap supply
of firewood available I would reccommend this set up.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

just for the record.............

with firewood you collect it, cut it, split it, stack it, then carry
it in the house burn it, and carry out the ashes.

Sigh

It's enjoyable excercise. Outdoors in the fresh air, on my own time.
Beats sitting in a gym peddling an excercise bike and going nowhere.

Â*if you must haul by

truck add fuel costs for that.

At the cottage every weekend. Truck and trailer goes along whenever
I'm up there.

now whats the value of your time? plus any fuel used, like chainsaw
gas, oil, and hauling vehicle costs plus depreciation, like extra
miles.

3 people at it. We are able to "process" one cord a weekend. Truck
carries 1 cord. Use 5-6 cords a year - you do the math. By May month
it's all done.

I'd say you just verified hallerb's point. Â* That labor comes to 30-36
man days of labor. Â*Assuming you earned a mere $7 an hour, that's
$1700 - 2000. Â*I heat my 3200 sq ft house here in NJ with gas for a
season for a lot less than that.

And it ignores another big problem, which is pollution. Â* Note, I'm
not saying someone shouldn't use wood if they want to and enjoy doing
it. Â* Only that it's not necessarily the free ride or good solution
for everyone.

you might find out a part time job is more effective use of your time,

Nope. If I worked a part time job on weekends? I'd rather be boating
and trouting at the cottage from May to October as opposed to slinging
coffee or stocking shelves at Wal Mart. What would you rather do? As
well I make a tidy sum selling hardwood to the woodturners guild which
easily pays for any overhead.

than all that firewood handling........ might be less work too

Naw. I enjoy it. I don't have to do it so it's not work. Now - go turn
up your thermostat.

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

yeah its kinda funny, people crow about how much they save heating
with firewood, and dont mind volunteering the hours worked etc.

but somehow EVERYONE I have ever asked always come back as a fiancial
loser or at best break even.

It would probably be more efficent to work the part time job and
devote 100% of the earnings to superinsulating the home.

Done

insulation pays back forever, without additional work

Done

such upgrades as triple pane windows

Done

95%+ furnace, and closed cell
foam insulation.
Heck even a timer thermostat.

So thats what that square box on the wall is.

- Hide quoted text -



- Show quoted text -

On Jan 29, 9:20Â*am, jim wrote:
On Jan 29, 10:05Â*am, wrote:





On Jan 29, 7:46Â*am, jim wrote:

On Jan 29, 12:58Â*am, " wrote:

On Jan 28, 9:14�pm, jim wrote:

On Jan 27, 1:43�pm, neilsanner wrote:

Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
�-The water heater would keep the water hot
�-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
�-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

Cost of electric heat will eventually = oil cost to heat a home. Our
oil fired HWR system kicked the bucket and we installed an oil / wood
burning combo (http://www.kerrheating.com/products/K4C_SS.htm). It's
the cats ass. And with my summer cottage sitting on 21 acres of
harwood forest I'm laughing. The cherry / oak and ash deadfall gets me
enough to do a year. With an additional woodstove on the main floor I
bet I have oil in the tank from last year. If you have a cheap supply
of firewood available I would reccommend this set up.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

just for the record.............

with firewood you collect it, cut it, split it, stack it, then carry
it in the house burn it, and carry out the ashes.

Sigh

It's enjoyable excercise. Outdoors in the fresh air, on my own time.
Beats sitting in a gym peddling an excercise bike and going nowhere.

Â*if you must haul by

truck add fuel costs for that.

At the cottage every weekend. Truck and trailer goes along whenever
I'm up there.

now whats the value of your time? plus any fuel used, like chainsaw
gas, oil, and hauling vehicle costs plus depreciation, like extra
miles.

3 people at it. We are able to "process" one cord a weekend. Truck
carries 1 cord. Use 5-6 cords a year - you do the math. By May month
it's all done.

I'd say you just verified hallerb's point. Â* That labor comes to 30-36
man days of labor. Â*Assuming you earned a mere $7 an hour, that's
$1700 - 2000.

I don't see it that way - the cost of labor. I have a growing
greenhouse and a vegetable garden which requires considerable labor to
maintain. Should I not do this?

No, If you enjoy it and get other benefits from it, of course you
should keep doing it. I stated that in my post. My point is some
people don't enjoy cutting, splitting, and hauling wood. And in that
case, I agree with hallerb, that if they looked at the labor spent
doing it, it can be more effective to just work some extra hours
somewhere at a paying job.




Â*I heat my 3200 sq ft house here in NJ with gas for a

season for a lot less than that.

And it ignores another big problem, which is pollution.

On my property I only cut deadfall. One cord of wood rotting on the
ground produces the same CO2 as if it were burned in a wood stove.

CO2 isn't the only issue or even the main one. The typical woodstove
emits a lot more HC, CO, other noxious gases and particulates than a
natural gas or oil fired furnace. And a lot of it depends on what
kind of wood is burned, how well the fire is managed, which are not
issues with gas or oil. There are towns with people living in close
proximity that have had so much pollution from woodburning stoves that
they have put restrictions on new ones.

It can be swell it you enjoy doing it and if only a small percentage
of people do it. But if any significant percentage of homes started
doing it as their main source of heat, air quality would definitely
suffer.





Â*Â* Note, I'm

not saying someone shouldn't use wood if they want to and enjoy doing
it. Â* Only that it's not necessarily the free ride or good solution
for everyone.

It is for me.





you might find out a part time job is more effective use of your time,

Nope. If I worked a part time job on weekends? I'd rather be boating
and trouting at the cottage from May to October as opposed to slinging
coffee or stocking shelves at Wal Mart. What would you rather do? As
well I make a tidy sum selling hardwood to the woodturners guild which
easily pays for any overhead.

than all that firewood handling........ might be less work too

Naw. I enjoy it. I don't have to do it so it's not work. Now - go turn
up your thermostat.

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jan 29, 10:56 am, wrote:
On Jan 29, 9:20 am, jim wrote:



On Jan 29, 10:05 am, wrote:

On Jan 29, 7:46 am, jim wrote:

On Jan 29, 12:58 am, " wrote:

On Jan 28, 9:14�pm, jim wrote:

On Jan 27, 1:43�pm, neilsanner wrote:

Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
�-The water heater would keep the water hot
�-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
�-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

Cost of electric heat will eventually = oil cost to heat a home. Our
oil fired HWR system kicked the bucket and we installed an oil / wood
burning combo (http://www.kerrheating.com/products/K4C_SS.htm). It's
the cats ass. And with my summer cottage sitting on 21 acres of
harwood forest I'm laughing. The cherry / oak and ash deadfall gets me
enough to do a year. With an additional woodstove on the main floor I
bet I have oil in the tank from last year. If you have a cheap supply
of firewood available I would reccommend this set up.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

just for the record.............

with firewood you collect it, cut it, split it, stack it, then carry
it in the house burn it, and carry out the ashes.

Sigh

It's enjoyable excercise. Outdoors in the fresh air, on my own time.
Beats sitting in a gym peddling an excercise bike and going nowhere.

if you must haul by

truck add fuel costs for that.

At the cottage every weekend. Truck and trailer goes along whenever
I'm up there.

now whats the value of your time? plus any fuel used, like chainsaw
gas, oil, and hauling vehicle costs plus depreciation, like extra
miles.

3 people at it. We are able to "process" one cord a weekend. Truck
carries 1 cord. Use 5-6 cords a year - you do the math. By May month
it's all done.

I'd say you just verified hallerb's point. That labor comes to 30-36
man days of labor. Assuming you earned a mere $7 an hour, that's
$1700 - 2000.

I don't see it that way - the cost of labor. I have a growing
greenhouse and a vegetable garden which requires considerable labor to
maintain. Should I not do this?

No, If you enjoy it and get other benefits from it, of course you
should keep doing it. I stated that in my post. My point is some
people don't enjoy cutting, splitting, and hauling wood. And in that
case, I agree with hallerb, that if they looked at the labor spent
doing it, it can be more effective to just work some extra hours
somewhere at a paying job.



I heat my 3200 sq ft house here in NJ with gas for a

season for a lot less than that.

And it ignores another big problem, which is pollution.

On my property I only cut deadfall. One cord of wood rotting on the
ground produces the same CO2 as if it were burned in a wood stove.

CO2 isn't the only issue or even the main one. The typical woodstove
emits a lot more HC, CO, other noxious gases and particulates than a
natural gas or oil fired furnace. And a lot of it depends on what
kind of wood is burned, how well the fire is managed, which are not
issues with gas or oil. There are towns with people living in close
proximity that have had so much pollution from woodburning stoves that
they have put restrictions on new ones.

It can be swell it you enjoy doing it and if only a small percentage
of people do it. But if any significant percentage of homes started
doing it as their main source of heat, air quality would definitely
suffer.



Note, I'm

not saying someone shouldn't use wood if they want to and enjoy doing
it. Only that it's not necessarily the free ride or good solution
for everyone.

It is for me.

you might find out a part time job is more effective use of your time,

Nope. If I worked a part time job on weekends? I'd rather be boating
and trouting at the cottage from May to October as opposed to slinging
coffee or stocking shelves at Wal Mart. What would you rather do? As
well I make a tidy sum selling hardwood to the woodturners guild which
easily pays for any overhead.

than all that firewood handling........ might be less work too

Naw. I enjoy it. I don't have to do it so it's not work. Now - go turn
up your thermostat.

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I love the smell of woodsmoke in the morning. I wish more people
burned wood. (I don't.)

On Jan 30, 8:56Â*am, wrote:
On Jan 29, 10:56 am, wrote:





On Jan 29, 9:20 am, jim wrote:

On Jan 29, 10:05 am, wrote:

On Jan 29, 7:46 am, jim wrote:

On Jan 29, 12:58 am, " wrote:

On Jan 28, 9:14�pm, jim wrote:

On Jan 27, 1:43�pm, neilsanner wrote:

Hi,

My house is heated by an oil boiler (furnace). The boiler heats water
and then a circulator pump circulates the water all over the house to
the baseboards.

Is there a way to / Do you know anyone who did something similar to
this befo
-Make a hole in the boiler
-Insert an electric element
-Connect the element to an aquastat
-The boiler would now be electricity heated!!!

Another way to do this I thought of:
-Buy a small (tank) water heater
-Put it next to the existing oil boiler
-Take the input and output pipes of the oil boiler and connect it to
the input and output of the water heater.

This system would work like that:
�-The water heater would keep the water hot
�-The circulator would start when the thermostat says so
�-The circulator would bring the hot water all over the house until
the heat goes up in the rooms and the thermostat shuts off the
circulator.

Any ideas?
NeilSanner

Cost of electric heat will eventually = oil cost to heat a home. Our
oil fired HWR system kicked the bucket and we installed an oil / wood
burning combo (http://www.kerrheating.com/products/K4C_SS.htm).. It's
the cats ass. And with my summer cottage sitting on 21 acres of
harwood forest I'm laughing. The cherry / oak and ash deadfall gets me
enough to do a year. With an additional woodstove on the main floor I
bet I have oil in the tank from last year. If you have a cheap supply
of firewood available I would reccommend this set up.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

just for the record.............

with firewood you collect it, cut it, split it, stack it, then carry
it in the house burn it, and carry out the ashes.

Sigh

It's enjoyable excercise. Outdoors in the fresh air, on my own time.
Beats sitting in a gym peddling an excercise bike and going nowhere.

Â*if you must haul by

truck add fuel costs for that.

At the cottage every weekend. Truck and trailer goes along whenever
I'm up there.

now whats the value of your time? plus any fuel used, like chainsaw
gas, oil, and hauling vehicle costs plus depreciation, like extra
miles.

3 people at it. We are able to "process" one cord a weekend. Truck
carries 1 cord. Use 5-6 cords a year - you do the math. By May month
it's all done.

I'd say you just verified hallerb's point. Â* That labor comes to 30-36
man days of labor. Â*Assuming you earned a mere $7 an hour, that's
$1700 - 2000.

I don't see it that way - the cost of labor. I have a growing
greenhouse and a vegetable garden which requires considerable labor to
maintain. Should I not do this?

No, Â*If you enjoy it and get other benefits from it, of course you
should keep doing it. Â* I stated that in my post. Â* My point is some
people don't enjoy cutting, splitting, and hauling wood. Â* And in that
case, I agree with hallerb, that if they looked at the labor spent
doing it, it can be more effective to just work some extra hours
somewhere at a paying job.

Â*I heat my 3200 sq ft house here in NJ with gas for a

season for a lot less than that.

And it ignores another big problem, which is pollution.

On my property I only cut deadfall. One cord of wood rotting on the
ground produces the same CO2 as if it were burned in a wood stove.

CO2 isn't the only issue or even the main one. Â* The typical woodstove
emits a lot more HC, CO, other noxious gases and particulates than a
natural gas or oil fired furnace. Â* And a lot of it depends on what
kind of wood is burned, how well the fire is managed, which are not
issues with gas or oil. Â* There are towns with people living in close
proximity that have had so much pollution from woodburning stoves that
they have put restrictions on new ones.

It can be swell it you enjoy doing it and if only a small percentage
of people do it. Â* But if any significant percentage of homes started
doing it as their main source of heat, air quality would definitely
suffer.

Â* Â*Note, I'm

not saying someone shouldn't use wood if they want to and enjoy doing
it. Â* Only that it's not necessarily the free ride or good solution
for everyone.

It is for me.

you might find out a part time job is more effective use of your time,

Nope. If I worked a part time job on weekends? I'd rather be boating
and trouting at the cottage from May to October as opposed to slinging
coffee or stocking shelves at Wal Mart. What would you rather do? As
well I make a tidy sum selling hardwood to the woodturners guild which
easily pays for any overhead.

than all that firewood handling........ might be less work too

Naw. I enjoy it. I don't have to do it so it's not work. Now - go turn
up your thermostat.

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I love the smell of woodsmoke in the morning. Â*I wish more people
burned wood. (I don't.)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

my neighbor used to burn wood constantly, it caused my wife great
asthma issues, and frankly gagged me it was so dense sometimes.......

he has a outdoor chimnea, and burns trash wood like pine, wonder if
that makes it worse?