Ok, so first time in my life I'm a homeowner, and also first time I have
baseboard heat. The problem is the noise that the baseboard makes when
the thermostat turns the heat off.

The noise is like a big bang or clunk. And when more than one heaters do
it same time, it can scare you. Not to mention the neighbors. Not all
heaters do it though. And it doesn't happen every time.

This seemed to come up every once in a while, but still I couldn't find
any answers with Google that seemed to apply to this case. I live in a
condo, and I don't have my own boiler, so that limits some things that
I can do or check.

Here's a sound file too, that I recorded, maybe that will help:
http://mikkopel.dyndns.org:1000/misc/clunk.mp3

How do I stop the sounds? Thanks!

Not having any idea of the type of system you have, the only thing that I
can think of that may clunk when you turn it off, would be a solenoid valve.
Is there anything on or near the baseboard units? Are they hot water or
steam?



"Mikko Peltoniemi" wrote in message
...
Ok, so first time in my life I'm a homeowner, and also first time I have
baseboard heat. The problem is the noise that the baseboard makes when the
thermostat turns the heat off.

The noise is like a big bang or clunk. And when more than one heaters do
it same time, it can scare you. Not to mention the neighbors. Not all
heaters do it though. And it doesn't happen every time.

This seemed to come up every once in a while, but still I couldn't find
any answers with Google that seemed to apply to this case. I live in a
condo, and I don't have my own boiler, so that limits some things that
I can do or check.

Here's a sound file too, that I recorded, maybe that will help:
http://mikkopel.dyndns.org:1000/misc/clunk.mp3

How do I stop the sounds? Thanks!

I just heard the sound which wouldn't open on my pc. It sounds just like a
garden variety Honeywell hot water zone valve de-energizing and closing
under spring tension, but I have no clue what the bang could be. If I were
you I'd find the valve and watch it to see that the pipes aren't loose and
possibly banging against something when it closes




"Mikko Peltoniemi" wrote in message
...
Ok, so first time in my life I'm a homeowner, and also first time I have
baseboard heat. The problem is the noise that the baseboard makes when the
thermostat turns the heat off.

The noise is like a big bang or clunk. And when more than one heaters do
it same time, it can scare you. Not to mention the neighbors. Not all
heaters do it though. And it doesn't happen every time.

This seemed to come up every once in a while, but still I couldn't find
any answers with Google that seemed to apply to this case. I live in a
condo, and I don't have my own boiler, so that limits some things that
I can do or check.

Here's a sound file too, that I recorded, maybe that will help:
http://mikkopel.dyndns.org:1000/misc/clunk.mp3

How do I stop the sounds? Thanks!

RBM wrote:

Not having any idea of the type of system you have, the only thing that I
can think of that may clunk when you turn it off, would be a solenoid valve.
Is there anything on or near the baseboard units? Are they hot water or
steam?

There is one of these doohickeys at the end. Or beginning rather, I believe.

http://mikkopel.dyndns.org:1000/misc/baseboard1.jpg

I haven't seen any movement, or anything when the noise happens, but
then again, I haven't watched it that closely. I just tried to watch
carefully, but this time it didn't bang. And it doesn't bang every time.

But a lot of times. And not just one baseboard. But some are still
quieter than others. I can't really seem to find any pattern.

In article , Mikko Peltoniemi wrote:

There is one of these doohickeys at the end. Or beginning rather, I believe.

http://mikkopel.dyndns.org:1000/misc/baseboard1.jpg

I haven't seen any movement, or anything when the noise happens, but
then again, I haven't watched it that closely.

Take the cover off that "doohickey" -- which is probably a zone valve. I'll
bet you see something amiss inside it that coincides with the noise.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

The picture isn't quite clear enough to verify it as a zone valve as opposed
to a solenoid valve. I've never seen one built right into a baseboard
heater. If it is a zone valve, it'll have a couple of springs inside the
cover that force it closed when the thermostat is down. Possibly they are
catching on a piece of sheet metal of one of the heaters? Zone valves close
fairly slowly, at least compared to solenoid valves, so they usually don't
cause a water hammer



"Mikko Peltoniemi" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:

Not having any idea of the type of system you have, the only thing that I
can think of that may clunk when you turn it off, would be a solenoid
valve. Is there anything on or near the baseboard units? Are they hot
water or steam?

There is one of these doohickeys at the end. Or beginning rather, I
believe.

http://mikkopel.dyndns.org:1000/misc/baseboard1.jpg

I haven't seen any movement, or anything when the noise happens, but
then again, I haven't watched it that closely. I just tried to watch
carefully, but this time it didn't bang. And it doesn't bang every time.

But a lot of times. And not just one baseboard. But some are still
quieter than others. I can't really seem to find any pattern.

Mikko Peltoniemi wrote:
Ok, so first time in my life I'm a homeowner, and also first time I have
baseboard heat. The problem is the noise that the baseboard makes when
the thermostat turns the heat off.

The noise is like a big bang or clunk. And when more than one heaters do
it same time, it can scare you. Not to mention the neighbors. Not all
heaters do it though. And it doesn't happen every time.

This seemed to come up every once in a while, but still I couldn't find
any answers with Google that seemed to apply to this case. I live in a
condo, and I don't have my own boiler, so that limits some things that
I can do or check.

Here's a sound file too, that I recorded, maybe that will help:
http://mikkopel.dyndns.org:1000/misc/clunk.mp3

How do I stop the sounds? Thanks!

I have had two homes in Alaska with hot-water baseboard heat. In both of
them there were an assortment of creaking, groaning, banging noises and
every one of them seemed to be traceable to the way the hot water pipes
were run between the units. What was happening was when the pipes heated
and cooled they were expanding and contracting and rubbing against the
nice pitch-laden framing lumber. This movement was not gradual but
grab-and-release causing occasional noises. I found out that later that
new code required that low-friction plastic inserts be used in the holes
in the studs to eliminate the pipe-on-wood rubbing and that noise was no
longer a problem.

I really doubt that any noises could come directly from the zone valves
opening and closing. There are two commonly-used zone valve types in
home heating: one uses a wax capsule heated by the control voltage which
moves the valve and the other uses a small motor. In both cases the
opening and closing is very slow (on the order of 5 - 10 seconds) and
cannot cause the sort of pipe banging that is sometimes experienced with
the quick solenoid valves in dishwashers and ice makers.

As for what you can do about it, short of actually digging into your
walls, you can simply wait a while. After a few years I hardly noticed
it any more...

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

John McGaw wrote:
Mikko Peltoniemi wrote:
Ok, so first time in my life I'm a homeowner, and also first time I
have baseboard heat. The problem is the noise that the baseboard makes
when the thermostat turns the heat off.
snip...

Hmmm... Not the sort of zone-valve setup I was expecting.

Looking at your picture I will have to say that you definitely have a
valve type I'm not familiar with and it certainly could be a fast-moving
solenoid type after all. If so, your banging might be totally different
that what I experienced. But if so, since it is right out in the open it
may be a lot easier to trace and repair. Can you work with someone to
test the action of one of the offending valves by cycling the thermostat
on and off? If you are right next to the valve you can place your hand
on it or on the pipe next to it and actually feel if there is any sudden
motion which might explain the bang. If the pipe is moving back and
forth under the influence of the water you might be able to tell if it
is hitting against anything (sheet metal, edge of a hole, bracket, etc).
If so, a bit of foam insulation of the sort used on water pipes stuffed
into the gap may dampen the vibrations.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

RBM wrote:

The picture isn't quite clear enough to verify it as a zone valve as opposed
to a solenoid valve. I've never seen one built right into a baseboard
heater. If it is a zone valve, it'll have a couple of springs inside the
cover that force it closed when the thermostat is down. Possibly they are
catching on a piece of sheet metal of one of the heaters? Zone valves close
fairly slowly, at least compared to solenoid valves, so they usually don't
cause a water hammer

I opened it up:
http://mikkopel.dyndns.org:1000/misc/baseboard2.jpg

I had my wife turn the heat off, while I was looking at it, and I can
see the motor action when it happens. But now it's not making the noise.
I'm not sure if it's because the cover is off, but then again it didn't
make the noise every time anyway.

There also seems to be a lever of some sort on the left of the picture.
What's that for?

Doesn't look like it's ever been cleaned under there either...

John McGaw wrote:

Looking at your picture I will have to say that you definitely have a
valve type I'm not familiar with and it certainly could be a fast-moving
solenoid type after all. If so, your banging might be totally different

It's not that fast. When I look at it, it takes a few seconds to reach
from one end to another. Also, I can definitely understand clicking and
small noises like that when the heat is on. But since it's a loud,
one-time, bang, when the heat goes out, it doesn't seem normal to me.

I wonder if the people who listened to the clip agree, that the sound
is not normal?

"Mikko Peltoniemi" wrote in message
...
John McGaw wrote:

Looking at your picture I will have to say that you definitely have a
valve type I'm not familiar with and it certainly could be a fast-moving
solenoid type after all. If so, your banging might be totally different

It's not that fast. When I look at it, it takes a few seconds to reach
from one end to another. Also, I can definitely understand clicking and
small noises like that when the heat is on. But since it's a loud,
one-time, bang, when the heat goes out, it doesn't seem normal to me.

I wonder if the people who listened to the clip agree, that the sound
is not normal?

I've not seen a valve like that. The Synchron motor on the top usually
turns very slow, 1 or 2 rpm, but the sound seems to be something that slams
shut. Possible that the insides are worn and a seal or gasket is no longer
in place to soften the sound. My guess is the noise is in the valve body,
not the top motorized portion.

That's a bypass lever, it allows you to open the valve, and latch it open
manually. There are generally three or four wires attached to the valve,
when it is electrically opened, it has a built in switch that closes a
circuit which would turn on a circulator pump to push the hot water through
the valve. This switch however is not activated when the valve is opened
manually



"Mikko Peltoniemi" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:

The picture isn't quite clear enough to verify it as a zone valve as
opposed to a solenoid valve. I've never seen one built right into a
baseboard heater. If it is a zone valve, it'll have a couple of springs
inside the cover that force it closed when the thermostat is down.
Possibly they are catching on a piece of sheet metal of one of the
heaters? Zone valves close fairly slowly, at least compared to solenoid
valves, so they usually don't cause a water hammer

I opened it up:
http://mikkopel.dyndns.org:1000/misc/baseboard2.jpg

I had my wife turn the heat off, while I was looking at it, and I can
see the motor action when it happens. But now it's not making the noise.
I'm not sure if it's because the cover is off, but then again it didn't
make the noise every time anyway.

There also seems to be a lever of some sort on the left of the picture.
What's that for?

Doesn't look like it's ever been cleaned under there either...

Another possibility: This is clearly a sort of Rube Goldberg system. It's
entirely possible that each zone valve is controlling a master valve located
out of sight, which could be the source of the noise



"Mikko Peltoniemi" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:

The picture isn't quite clear enough to verify it as a zone valve as
opposed to a solenoid valve. I've never seen one built right into a
baseboard heater. If it is a zone valve, it'll have a couple of springs
inside the cover that force it closed when the thermostat is down.
Possibly they are catching on a piece of sheet metal of one of the
heaters? Zone valves close fairly slowly, at least compared to solenoid
valves, so they usually don't cause a water hammer

I opened it up:
http://mikkopel.dyndns.org:1000/misc/baseboard2.jpg

I had my wife turn the heat off, while I was looking at it, and I can
see the motor action when it happens. But now it's not making the noise.
I'm not sure if it's because the cover is off, but then again it didn't
make the noise every time anyway.

There also seems to be a lever of some sort on the left of the picture.
What's that for?

Doesn't look like it's ever been cleaned under there either...

Clark wrote:

The sound is not normal. Have you purged the system?

The problem is that there's only so much I can do, since it's a condo.
But I have tried to look for a bleed valve or something, in case there's
air. And since it's the top floor of the building, I thought there might
be.

On Jan 16, 6:50*am, Mikko Peltoniemi wrote:
Clark wrote:
The sound is not normal. Have you purged the system?

The problem is that there's only so much I can do, since it's a condo.
But I have tried to look for a bleed valve or something, in case there's
air. And since it's the top floor of the building, I thought there might
be.

Have the building check the lave soliniod and the pipes this is more
than you should do and if it is a condo are oblgated to do least you
bugger everyones heat it is a feed promblem

In article , Mikko Peltoniemi wrote:
John McGaw wrote:

Looking at your picture I will have to say that you definitely have a
valve type I'm not familiar with and it certainly could be a fast-moving
solenoid type after all.

Naaah. It's a perfectly normal zone valve, low-speed motor to open it, spring
to close it. My system has half a dozen almost exactly like it.

It's not that fast. When I look at it, it takes a few seconds to reach
from one end to another. Also, I can definitely understand clicking and
small noises like that when the heat is on. But since it's a loud,
one-time, bang, when the heat goes out, it doesn't seem normal to me.

I wonder if the people who listened to the clip agree, that the sound
is not normal?

Oh, absolutely, that's not normal. It sounded like a sheet-metal sort of sound
to me, or a spring. Open and close it manually a time or two. Does it operate
smoothly, or does it feel like something's binding?

I kinda wonder if perhaps the noise might have been just the cover rattling.
Leave the cover off for a couple days, and see if the noise appears.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Mikko Peltoniemi wrote:
The noise is like a big bang or clunk. And when more than one heaters do
it same time, it can scare you. Not to mention the neighbors. Not all
heaters do it though. And it doesn't happen every time.

How do I stop the sounds? Thanks!

The heating system is not part of the condo, and therefore not your
responsibility. Whoever maintains the building itself is responsible
for maintenance and repair of the heating system. It would be a
different story if each condo had its own furnace, but here, there's a
central boiler.

You should call building maintenance and have them look at it. If you
start messing with things you could take out the heat for everyone in
the building, and put yourself in the hospital with severe steam
burns. You don't have control over the supply of hot water/steam, and
can't shut it off.

I find it hard to believe that yours is the only condo in the building
with this problem.

On Jan 15, 7:13 pm, Mikko Peltoniemi wrote:
Ok, so first time in my life I'm a homeowner, and also first time I have
baseboard heat. The problem is the noise that the baseboard makes when
the thermostat turns the heat off.

The noise is like a big bang or clunk. And when more than one heaters do
it same time, it can scare you. Not to mention the neighbors. How do I stop the sounds? Thanks!

Had the same problem, and here's what I dug up. With it being a condo
you might want to get the maintainers to look into it - easier, safer,
and potentially a LOT cheaper.

Water/Hydronic Baseboard heat noise symptoms, root causes to check for
in order, & troubleshooting:

Pinging
„« expansion of fin pipes
use plastic gliders (not metal) ¡V check that all are in place
use expansion compensators on long runs
install an Outdoor-air reset control (water cycles continuously,
varies boiler temp)

Gurgling
„« water boiling
Check temp, boiler should be less than 212 at all times ¡V have read
220 may be high end?
TURN BOILER TEMP DOWN! This is dangerous.
„« Air in pipes
Bleed system

Banging
„« water boiling (banging has a gurgling type sound)
Check temp, boiler should be less than 212 at all times ¡V have read
220 may be high end?
TURN BOILER TEMP DOWN! This is dangerous.
„« Air in pipes (banging has a gurgling type sound, may be like a
hammer)
Bleed system
„« pipe expanding against hole that¡¦s too small in floor or wall
(banging sounds like hammer)
drill a bigger hole
apply ¡§high heat caulking compound¡¨ to hole
Outdoor-air reset control system may mitigate but not solve
„« failed / failing expansion tank (banging sounds like hammer?)
check expansion tank function
„« fast-closing zone valve (banging sounds like hammer)
likely if banging occurs when the zone shuts down
fast-closing valves may cause this (Honeywell, Erie, small White
Rogers may be culprit?)
slow-closing valves may solve (Taco, large White Rogers)