I installed a new subpanel and several new circuits in my basement and
just recently passed inspection, fired them up, and they work great.
Last step now is to remove the old lights which hang below the joists
so that I can drywall the ceiling. However, when attempting to cut
off power to these basement lights, I successively turned off every
breaker in the main panel, checked the lights, and they were still
on! Cutting the main power to the panel kills the lights, but no
individual breaker (other than the main) does the trick. Any
suggestions?

wrote in message
...
I installed a new subpanel and several new circuits in my basement and
just recently passed inspection, fired them up, and they work great.
Last step now is to remove the old lights which hang below the joists
so that I can drywall the ceiling. However, when attempting to cut
off power to these basement lights, I successively turned off every
breaker in the main panel, checked the lights, and they were still
on! Cutting the main power to the panel kills the lights, but no
individual breaker (other than the main) does the trick. Any
suggestions?


Yeah. Official electrician's term: Something's all ****ed up.

Start over, but spend a couple of hours at the library first, reading some
books about home wiring.

wrote:
I installed a new subpanel and several new circuits in my basement and
just recently passed inspection, fired them up, and they work great.
Last step now is to remove the old lights which hang below the joists
so that I can drywall the ceiling. However, when attempting to cut
off power to these basement lights, I successively turned off every
breaker in the main panel, checked the lights, and they were still
on! Cutting the main power to the panel kills the lights, but no
individual breaker (other than the main) does the trick. Any
suggestions?

Maybe you have a bad breaker that won't switch off.
I would remove the panel cover and test the output of each breaker with
a volt meter or test light to see if they all really go off when turned
off.

Did you shut off all the 240V breakers as well?
Another possibility is an illegal tap from one side of a 220V circuit
like a dryer outlet or water heater or something.

Or maybe you have another old sub panel somewhere?

Kevin

On Jan 7, 1:44*pm, Kevin Ricks wrote:
wrote:
I installed a new subpanel and several new circuits in my basement and
just recently passed inspection, fired them up, and they work great.
Last step now is to remove the old lights which hang below the joists
so that I can drywall the ceiling. *However, when attempting to cut
off power to these basement lights, I successively turned off every
breaker in the main panel, checked the lights, and they were still
on! *Cutting the main power to the panel kills the lights, but no
individual breaker (other than the main) does the trick. *Any
suggestions?

Maybe you have a bad breaker that won't switch off.
I would remove the panel cover and test the output of each breaker with
a volt meter or test light to see if they all really go off when turned
off.

Did you shut off all the 240V breakers as well?
Another possibility is an illegal tap from one side of a 220V circuit
like a dryer outlet or water heater or something.

Or maybe you have another old sub panel somewhere?

Kevin

Ok, first off - the problem is with the original house wiring, not
with what I did so "starting over" is not really an option. Like I
said, what I installed works perfectly, it's the old wiring that is
confusing. Second - I am testing the lights by flipping breakers and
seeing if the lights get switched off, not using a meter - what
benefit might using a meter gain me? Third - I will test the output
of the breakers to see if one is perhaps bad, maybe that is the
problem. I did shut off all 240V breakers, but that's really only the
AirCond system as all my other appliances are gas - but still no
luck! Also, the house is only 10 years old, and there is NO other
subpanel (I'm 99.9% sure of it). Could it be that two circuits are
tied together - improperly - feeding these lights, such that killing
power to only one at a time doesn't cause the lights to turn off?
Other suggestions?

wrote:

On Jan 7, 1:44 pm, Kevin Ricks wrote:
wrote:
I installed a new subpanel and several new circuits in my basement and
just recently passed inspection, fired them up, and they work great.
Last step now is to remove the old lights which hang below the joists
so that I can drywall the ceiling. However, when attempting to cut
off power to these basement lights, I successively turned off every
breaker in the main panel, checked the lights, and they were still
on! Cutting the main power to the panel kills the lights, but no
individual breaker (other than the main) does the trick. Any
suggestions?

Maybe you have a bad breaker that won't switch off.
I would remove the panel cover and test the output of each breaker with
a volt meter or test light to see if they all really go off when turned
off.

Did you shut off all the 240V breakers as well?
Another possibility is an illegal tap from one side of a 220V circuit
like a dryer outlet or water heater or something.

Or maybe you have another old sub panel somewhere?

Kevin

Ok, first off - the problem is with the original house wiring, not
with what I did so "starting over" is not really an option. Like I
said, what I installed works perfectly, it's the old wiring that is
confusing. Second - I am testing the lights by flipping breakers and
seeing if the lights get switched off, not using a meter - what
benefit might using a meter gain me? Third - I will test the output
of the breakers to see if one is perhaps bad, maybe that is the
problem. I did shut off all 240V breakers, but that's really only the
AirCond system as all my other appliances are gas - but still no
luck! Also, the house is only 10 years old, and there is NO other
subpanel (I'm 99.9% sure of it). Could it be that two circuits are
tied together - improperly - feeding these lights, such that killing
power to only one at a time doesn't cause the lights to turn off?
Other suggestions?

Trace the actual wire from the light fixtures to it's source breaker and
physically remove the breaker, being careful in case your double feed
theory is correct.

wrote:
On Jan 7, 1:44 pm, Kevin Ricks wrote:
wrote:
I installed a new subpanel and several new circuits in my basement and
just recently passed inspection, fired them up, and they work great.
Last step now is to remove the old lights which hang below the joists
so that I can drywall the ceiling. However, when attempting to cut
off power to these basement lights, I successively turned off every
breaker in the main panel, checked the lights, and they were still
on! Cutting the main power to the panel kills the lights, but no
individual breaker (other than the main) does the trick. Any
suggestions?
Maybe you have a bad breaker that won't switch off.
I would remove the panel cover and test the output of each breaker with
a volt meter or test light to see if they all really go off when turned
off.

Did you shut off all the 240V breakers as well?
Another possibility is an illegal tap from one side of a 220V circuit
like a dryer outlet or water heater or something.

Or maybe you have another old sub panel somewhere?

Kevin

Ok, first off - the problem is with the original house wiring, not
with what I did so "starting over" is not really an option. Like I
said, what I installed works perfectly, it's the old wiring that is
confusing.
Thats exactly how I interrupted what you said. No one said anything
about starting over?

Second - I am testing the lights by flipping breakers and
seeing if the lights get switched off, not using a meter - what
benefit might using a meter gain me?

I suggested a meter or test light tool as a means of testing the breaker
output to verify that the breakers are functioning. A bad breaker
(shorted on) will show 120V all the time. Of course a good breaker will
show 120V when on ~0V when off. Touch one lead to the screw on the
breaker and the other on the ground or neutral bus.


Third - I will test the output
of the breakers to see if one is perhaps bad, maybe that is the
problem. I did shut off all 240V breakers, but that's really only the
AirCond system as all my other appliances are gas - but still no
luck! Also, the house is only 10 years old, and there is NO other
subpanel (I'm 99.9% sure of it). Could it be that two circuits are
tied together - improperly - feeding these lights, such that killing
power to only one at a time doesn't cause the lights to turn off?
Other suggestions?

I have seen 2 circuits tied together and that would cause what you are
seeing. I once found a circuit with a 'home run' going to each end.
duh... Just lucky they were both on the same pole.
In your original post I thought you said that you turned off all the
breakers, but maybe I misread? What I thought you meant was that you
turned all the breakers off leaving only the main on and still have a
live circuit.

Turn all the breakers off then turn them on and then back off one at a
time. See if you find 2 or more breakers that switch the lights back on.
If not then go test each breaker with a volt meter as above.

Kevin

Sorry Kevin, I quoted you, but my response was to both of the posts
prior to yours, and then yours as well. JoeSpareBedroom said "Start
over, but spend a couple of hours at the library first, reading some
books about home wiring.", which is obviously not applicable to me.
Also, the meter suggestion is a good one, and I'll try it tonight to
check for bad breakers. I also like the suggestion of turning off all
breakers and then trying each one ON, to see if two of them power my
lights - that's something I hadn't thought of - I only went the other
way turning one at a time OFF. I also did try turning off the main
feed, which did kill the lights (how could it not, right?), but did
not try leaving the main feed on and turning off all breakers
(although I suspect that must have the same effect, since the lights
couldn't be tied to the main feed since it's 240V, right?). One more
question - since the lights are all downstream of a single switch,
which works, I should be able to kill the main power, disconnect that
switch from the circuit and be good to go, right? No power to switch,
no power to lights? That way anything else on that circuit upstream
of the switch would continue to function appropriately and even if
there was a double-circuit connection upstream of the switch, I would
be absolved from having to hunt it down. Sound acceptable or am I
missing someting?

The power for these lights may not be in the switch box, as it could be in
one of the lighting outlets with a switch leg to the wall switch. I would do
what Kevin suggests, as this is a potentially dangerous situation that
should be addressed. Kill all the breakers except the main. The lights
should go off, then turn on one breaker at a time until you find the one
that turns on these lights. Once you find it, turn it off then continue to
turn on the rest of the breakers to see if another breaker turns them back
on. If so, disconnect an insolate one . Also, as Kevin pointed out, it may
be a bad breaker that doesn't turn off, if this is the case, when you kill
all the breakers in the panel except the main, these lights will remain on,
and this would be the case regardless of how many sub panels you have. At
this point you need to test each breaker to find the one that's not turning
off


wrote in message
...
Sorry Kevin, I quoted you, but my response was to both of the posts
prior to yours, and then yours as well. JoeSpareBedroom said "Start
over, but spend a couple of hours at the library first, reading some
books about home wiring.", which is obviously not applicable to me.
Also, the meter suggestion is a good one, and I'll try it tonight to
check for bad breakers. I also like the suggestion of turning off all
breakers and then trying each one ON, to see if two of them power my
lights - that's something I hadn't thought of - I only went the other
way turning one at a time OFF. I also did try turning off the main
feed, which did kill the lights (how could it not, right?), but did
not try leaving the main feed on and turning off all breakers
(although I suspect that must have the same effect, since the lights
couldn't be tied to the main feed since it's 240V, right?). One more
question - since the lights are all downstream of a single switch,
which works, I should be able to kill the main power, disconnect that
switch from the circuit and be good to go, right? No power to switch,
no power to lights? That way anything else on that circuit upstream
of the switch would continue to function appropriately and even if
there was a double-circuit connection upstream of the switch, I would
be absolved from having to hunt it down. Sound acceptable or am I
missing someting?

On Jan 7, 1:02*pm, wrote:
I installed a new subpanel and several new circuits in my basement and
just recently passed inspection, fired them up, and they work great.
Last step now is to remove the old lights which hang below the joists
so that I can drywall the ceiling. *However, when attempting to cut
off power to these basement lights, I successively turned off every
breaker in the main panel, checked the lights, and they were still
on! *Cutting the main power to the panel kills the lights, but no
individual breaker (other than the main) does the trick. *Any
suggestions?

UPS?

wrote in message
...
I installed a new subpanel and several new circuits in my basement and
just recently passed inspection, fired them up, and they work great.
Last step now is to remove the old lights which hang below the joists
so that I can drywall the ceiling. However, when attempting to cut
off power to these basement lights, I successively turned off every
breaker in the main panel, checked the lights, and they were still
on! Cutting the main power to the panel kills the lights, but no
individual breaker (other than the main) does the trick. Any
suggestions?


I see this situation from time to time. Usually where a homeowner did some
electrical work. The problem may be that the circuit is getting fed by two
different circuit breakers. Turn off all of the circuit breakers at the
same time to see if that works. If not, open up the electrical panel and
see if something is tapped off of the main breaker. There may be a sub fuse
box somewhere that you are not aware of.

It is possible that you have a bad circuit breaker that will not turn off.

Let us know what you find.

Okay, all breakers appear to function correctly - Power when ON, no
power when OFF. So I looked at the switch, and it looks like all
there might be two circuits connected together right then and there.
The box actually has two switches, which are on different circuits,
but the hots, neutrals, and grounds are bound together. I
disconnected them, took the switch out that controls my lights of
interest, and put it back together as it was, just with one switch
missing. now the lights have no power, nor is there voltage between
the hot and neutral of the wire that goes from the last light to the
switch that was removed. I see nowhere else where power might be
coming in from, as all there is now is the 4 lights with wires
connecting them. I'm guessing therefore that power came from the
switch and I've successfully disconnected it. Do you guys think I
should continue my search for what was going on here, or just be happy
that I accomplished my mission. E.g., is it truly a danger or fire-
hazard to leave as-is? Hasn't been an issue for the 10 years the
house has been standing. Thanks again.

wrote:

Okay, all breakers appear to function correctly - Power when ON, no
power when OFF. So I looked at the switch, and it looks like all
there might be two circuits connected together right then and there.
The box actually has two switches, which are on different circuits,
but the hots, neutrals, and grounds are bound together. I
disconnected them, took the switch out that controls my lights of
interest, and put it back together as it was, just with one switch
missing. now the lights have no power, nor is there voltage between
the hot and neutral of the wire that goes from the last light to the
switch that was removed. I see nowhere else where power might be
coming in from, as all there is now is the 4 lights with wires
connecting them. I'm guessing therefore that power came from the
switch and I've successfully disconnected it. Do you guys think I
should continue my search for what was going on here, or just be happy
that I accomplished my mission. E.g., is it truly a danger or fire-
hazard to leave as-is? Hasn't been an issue for the 10 years the
house has been standing. Thanks again.

It sounds like someone replaced a switch or perhaps both switches, got
confused and ended up connecting everything together.

wrote:
Okay, all breakers appear to function correctly - Power when ON, no
power when OFF. So I looked at the switch, and it looks like all
there might be two circuits connected together right then and there.
The box actually has two switches, which are on different circuits,
but the hots, neutrals, and grounds are bound together.

How can you have "different circuits" if "the hots, neutrals, and
grounds are bound together"? If that is really true, then you have a
problem that needs to be fixed.

--

dpb wrote:

wrote:
Okay, all breakers appear to function correctly - Power when ON, no
power when OFF. So I looked at the switch, and it looks like all
there might be two circuits connected together right then and there.
The box actually has two switches, which are on different circuits,
but the hots, neutrals, and grounds are bound together.

How can you have "different circuits" if "the hots, neutrals, and
grounds are bound together"? If that is really true, then you have a
problem that needs to be fixed.

--

I expect that it started out as or was intended to be two switches in
the box, each fed from a separate circuit (on the same leg by
coincidence) and each feeding separate sets of lights, but either the
new guy who installed the switches after the rough in, or someone later
got confused and thought the second feed was outbound, not inbound and
tied it to the other feed. If the OP has them separate now the problem
should be fixed.

wrote:
On Jan 7, 1:44 pm, Kevin Ricks wrote:
wrote:
I installed a new subpanel and several new circuits in my basement and
just recently passed inspection, fired them up, and they work great.
Last step now is to remove the old lights which hang below the joists
so that I can drywall the ceiling. However, when attempting to cut
off power to these basement lights, I successively turned off every
breaker in the main panel, checked the lights, and they were still
on! Cutting the main power to the panel kills the lights, but no
individual breaker (other than the main) does the trick. Any
suggestions?
Maybe you have a bad breaker that won't switch off.
I would remove the panel cover and test the output of each breaker with
a volt meter or test light to see if they all really go off when turned
off.

Did you shut off all the 240V breakers as well?
Another possibility is an illegal tap from one side of a 220V circuit
like a dryer outlet or water heater or something.

Or maybe you have another old sub panel somewhere?

Kevin

Ok, first off - the problem is with the original house wiring, not
with what I did so "starting over" is not really an option. Like I
said, what I installed works perfectly, it's the old wiring that is
confusing. Second - I am testing the lights by flipping breakers and
seeing if the lights get switched off, not using a meter - what
benefit might using a meter gain me? Third - I will test the output
of the breakers to see if one is perhaps bad, maybe that is the
problem. I did shut off all 240V breakers, but that's really only the
AirCond system as all my other appliances are gas - but still no
luck! Also, the house is only 10 years old, and there is NO other
subpanel (I'm 99.9% sure of it). Could it be that two circuits are
tied together - improperly - feeding these lights, such that killing
power to only one at a time doesn't cause the lights to turn off?
Other suggestions?

Get a circuit tracer that plugs into outlets and light adapters and find
the breaker(s) it is hooked up to. I had the same situation and had one
circuit hooked up to 2 breakers in a house I bought. The only thing
that was good about it was that they were on the same phase. What
happened was that instead of 20 amp service to the outlet I had 40 amp
service! I took care of it by capping off the extra feed wire to the
circuit. My guess is that a wall box has 2 feeds for 2 circuits and
they are improperly joined in a box somewhere.

Mike D.

Mike Dobony wrote:

Get a circuit tracer that plugs into outlets and light adapters and
find the breaker(s) it is hooked up to. I had the same situation and
had one circuit hooked up to 2 breakers in a house I bought. The
only thing that was good about it was that they were on the same
phase. What happened was that instead of 20 amp service to the
outlet I had 40 amp service! I took care of it by capping off the
extra feed wire to the circuit. My guess is that a wall box has 2
feeds for 2 circuits and they are improperly joined in a box
somewhere.

$20.00 at Harbor Freight. Just got one but haven't tried it yet.

wrote:
Okay, all breakers appear to function correctly - Power when ON, no
power when OFF. So I looked at the switch, and it looks like all
there might be two circuits connected together right then and there.
The box actually has two switches, which are on different circuits,
but the hots, neutrals, and grounds are bound together. I
disconnected them, took the switch out that controls my lights of
interest, and put it back together as it was, just with one switch
missing. now the lights have no power, nor is there voltage between
the hot and neutral of the wire that goes from the last light to the
switch that was removed. I see nowhere else where power might be
coming in from, as all there is now is the 4 lights with wires
connecting them. I'm guessing therefore that power came from the
switch and I've successfully disconnected it. Do you guys think I
should continue my search for what was going on here, or just be happy
that I accomplished my mission. E.g., is it truly a danger or fire-
hazard to leave as-is? Hasn't been an issue for the 10 years the
house has been standing. Thanks again.

Should be OK if you are sure that the switch box with the 2 circuits did
not have other wires going to other outlets and such.

You should now have 1 black hot wire going to a switch and a black wire
from the same switch going to a light.

The black hot wire from the 2nd circuit should be capped off with a
wirenut.
I would remove the 2nd switch and wire from the box but up to you.

IF you have any other wires tied to the hots in that switch box then you
could be EITHER overloading the one circuit while leaving nothing on the
other circuit.
OR you could still have a problem with 2 circuits tied together.

It seems that if that was original wiring then there would have been
more than 4 lights on a circuit. Maybe thats what confused the person
who did the switch box in the 1st place.
If it were me I would have just added the 4 lights to the 1st circuit.

I would separate the white neutral wires as well.
I've been shocked when working on a circuit where just the neutrals from
2 circuits were tied together.

Grounds are OK to be tied.

Also if it were my house I would go and map out every single circuit in
the house - one breaker on at a time.

Kevin

If the OP shut every breaker in the panel (at the same time), and
there was still power, there is a big problem. Someone must have
wired directly to the main, or else there is a hidden panel somewhere.
Anyone that knows wiring would be able to trace that circuit back to
the panel. I always try to support people to DIY, but if the OP cant
trace the wires back to the panel, I suggest he call an electrician or
a friend who knows wiring. If that circuit is not on a breaker, it's
a fire hazzard. You dont connect a #12 or #14 wire to a 100A (or
more) main. An overload will set that wire ablaze in seconds. If
this was my house, I'd find the cause no matter what.

Maybe I am not understanding this, so here's the way to test.
I am assuming he shut off ALL the breakers at the same time. Then one
by one he needs to turn them on (only one at a time), and shut off the
last one that was turned on. In other words, only ONE breaker turned
on a a time. If TWO breakers made the same lights turn on, there
there is a crossed circuit (which is bad). If shutting off ALL the
small breakers (at once) does not turn off these lights at all, there
is an even bigger problem, as in unprotected circuit. Of course he
has to connect the light back to the switch or connect a meter or test
lamp to it. Working on a 10 year house should not be that bad. It's
not like some of those really old houses with the knob abd tube
nightmares.

A couple alligator clips on a bulb socket with a 25W bulb makes a
great tester. Costs under $5 to make one.

I'm a retired electrician. I've dealt with things like this, and it
needs to be fixed or can be very dangerous.

Granpa

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 05:02:25 GMT, Kevin Ricks
wrote:

wrote:
Okay, all breakers appear to function correctly - Power when ON, no
power when OFF. So I looked at the switch, and it looks like all
there might be two circuits connected together right then and there.
The box actually has two switches, which are on different circuits,
but the hots, neutrals, and grounds are bound together. I
disconnected them, took the switch out that controls my lights of
interest, and put it back together as it was, just with one switch
missing. now the lights have no power, nor is there voltage between
the hot and neutral of the wire that goes from the last light to the
switch that was removed. I see nowhere else where power might be
coming in from, as all there is now is the 4 lights with wires
connecting them. I'm guessing therefore that power came from the
switch and I've successfully disconnected it. Do you guys think I
should continue my search for what was going on here, or just be happy
that I accomplished my mission. E.g., is it truly a danger or fire-
hazard to leave as-is? Hasn't been an issue for the 10 years the
house has been standing. Thanks again.

Should be OK if you are sure that the switch box with the 2 circuits did
not have other wires going to other outlets and such.

You should now have 1 black hot wire going to a switch and a black wire
from the same switch going to a light.

The black hot wire from the 2nd circuit should be capped off with a
wirenut.
I would remove the 2nd switch and wire from the box but up to you.

IF you have any other wires tied to the hots in that switch box then you
could be EITHER overloading the one circuit while leaving nothing on the
other circuit.
OR you could still have a problem with 2 circuits tied together.

It seems that if that was original wiring then there would have been
more than 4 lights on a circuit. Maybe thats what confused the person
who did the switch box in the 1st place.
If it were me I would have just added the 4 lights to the 1st circuit.

I would separate the white neutral wires as well.
I've been shocked when working on a circuit where just the neutrals from
2 circuits were tied together.

Grounds are OK to be tied.

Also if it were my house I would go and map out every single circuit in
the house - one breaker on at a time.

Kevin

In article , wrote:

Ok, first off - the problem is with the original house wiring, not
with what I did so "starting over" is not really an option. Like I
said, what I installed works perfectly, it's the old wiring that is
confusing. Second - I am testing the lights by flipping breakers and
seeing if the lights get switched off, not using a meter - what
benefit might using a meter gain me?

Nothing. The reason the question was asked, though, is that if you had
been using a digital meter, you might have been reading induced voltages at
very low current ("phantom" voltages), and misled into thinking that the
circuit was on when it really wasn't.

Third - I will test the output
of the breakers to see if one is perhaps bad, maybe that is the
problem. I did shut off all 240V breakers, but that's really only the
AirCond system as all my other appliances are gas - but still no
luck! Also, the house is only 10 years old, and there is NO other
subpanel (I'm 99.9% sure of it). Could it be that two circuits are
tied together - improperly - feeding these lights, such that killing
power to only one at a time doesn't cause the lights to turn off?

Yes, that's possible, maybe even likely.

Other suggestions?

Physically trace the wiring from the lights back to the breaker panel.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:34:37 -0800 (PST), wrote:

[snip]

I also did try turning off the main
feed, which did kill the lights (how could it not, right?), but did
not try leaving the main feed on and turning off all breakers
(although I suspect that must have the same effect, since the lights
couldn't be tied to the main feed since it's 240V, right?).

They could, and yes.

Think about it. 120V loads are ALREADY connected to the main feed (a
breaker is not a transformer). Any other 120V load could be connected
the same way, although this is not desirable.

One more
question - since the lights are all downstream of a single switch,
which works, I should be able to kill the main power, disconnect that
switch from the circuit and be good to go, right? No power to switch,
no power to lights? That way anything else on that circuit upstream
of the switch would continue to function appropriately and even if
there was a double-circuit connection upstream of the switch, I would
be absolved from having to hunt it down. Sound acceptable or am I
missing someting?

Since it's already wired incorrectly, you can't be sure it's actually
hot that's being switched.

Ok, so now the dramatic (or not so dramatic) conclusion. I did buy a
circuit tracer, and hooked it up. There were no outlets on this
circuit so I connected the adapter and tied it directly to the screw
terminals on the switch that was left in the box. This worked okay,
but the tracer couldn't pinpont a specific breaker, since it would
indicate 4 consecutive breakers as all being the correct one. I guess
I was a little confused at first too since this is a 3-way switch and
maybe wasn't sure which lead would be "hot" when the switch was on or
off (and the other switch too). I can follow instructions to install
a 3-way switch, but troubleshooting an existing one and not knowing
specifically where power comes into the branch is a little beyond me.
So I simply took the switch out of the equation and disconnected all
four cables coming into the box from each other. One went out to my
lights that I'm trying to disconnect and has no power, even with the
breakers on (the lights are all downstream of the switch). One goes
out to the 3-way switch, and has no power of its own. The other two,
as suspected, each have power from their own circuits. One ties back
to a lighting circuit - main panel breaker 1A, and the other ties to a
"Smoke Detector" circuit - main panel breaker 2B. I capped off one of
the power feeds and reconnected the other to my 3-way switch, taking
the second switch out of the box. Now, all lights that are supposed
to work do, smoke detectors all function appropriately, and the lights
that I want to remove have no power. Thanks to everyone who
contributed to help me solve this error and potentially dangerous
situation.

wrote:
Ok, so now the dramatic (or not so dramatic) conclusion. I did buy a
circuit tracer, and hooked it up. There were no outlets on this
circuit so I connected the adapter and tied it directly to the screw
terminals on the switch that was left in the box. This worked OK,
but the tracer couldn't pinpoint a specific breaker, since it would
indicate 4 consecutive breakers as all being the correct one. I guess
I was a little confused at first too since this is a 3-way switch and
maybe wasn't sure which lead would be "hot" when the switch was on or
off (and the other switch too). I can follow instructions to install
a 3-way switch, but troubleshooting an existing one and not knowing
specifically where power comes into the branch is a little beyond me.
So I simply took the switch out of the equation and disconnected all
four cables coming into the box from each other. One went out to my
lights that I'm trying to disconnect and has no power, even with the
breakers on (the lights are all downstream of the switch). One goes
out to the 3-way switch, and has no power of its own. The other two,
as suspected, each have power from their own circuits. One ties back
to a lighting circuit - main panel breaker 1A, and the other ties to a
"Smoke Detector" circuit - main panel breaker 2B. I capped off one of
the power feeds and reconnected the other to my 3-way switch, taking
the second switch out of the box. Now, all lights that are supposed
to work do, smoke detectors all function appropriately, and the lights
that I want to remove have no power. Thanks to everyone who
contributed to help me solve this error and potentially dangerous
situation.


Did you separate the two white supply conductors from each other so that
each one only serves the loads supplied by the black wire from the same
cable. If not you will want to go back and do so. This will prevent
either one from being overloaded by the current from two breakers if the
white wire from one of the circuits goes open up stream at some later time.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

Did you separate the two white supply conductors from each other so that
each one only serves the loads supplied by the black wire from the same
cable. *If not you will want to go back and do so. This will prevent
either one from being overloaded by the current from two breakers if the
white wire from one of the circuits goes open up stream at some later time..


Yes, I capped off the hot, neutral, and ground wires from the circuit
that was servicing the old lights. I re-checked all breakers and now
each one serves only one circuit. I'm confident that I fixed this
error on the part of the original electrician (or previous homeowner),
but it does make me wonder how many other mysterious and potentially
dangerous conditions exist within everyone's home.