On Jan 4, 8:56*am, ATJaguarX wrote:
On Jan 3, 10:50*pm, ransley wrote:





On Jan 3, 8:49*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01*pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue. *

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made

On Jan 3, 3:22 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:
On Jan 3, 3:00 pm, Heathcliff wrote:



On Jan 3, 11:33 am, dpb wrote:

Heathcliff wrote:

...

It is true that for best efficiency, the furnace should be sized so
that it is just able to keep up on the coldest days. An oversized
furnace that cycles frequently will waste energy. ...

How, precisely, do you come to that conclusion? Given two otherwise
comparative units, how does size alone affect efficiency?

--

Fair enough, here are some references:

http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/publicati.../03-109-e.html
(canada mortgage and housing corporation technical bulletin)

http://www.alpinehomeair.com/Furnace...fm(homeheating
supply co.)

and it's not just efficiency, but also early failure of the unit is a
possibility. -- H

I can understand the oversized furnace issue. What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

I think most thermostats have an adjustment that determines how far
off the setpoint it allows the temp to drift before taking action. So
for example if you set it to 68, will it allow the temperature to
drift down to 67.5, or 67, or 66 before kicking on the furnace,
depends on this adjustment. I know my old cheapo Honeywell round
thermostat had this, but you had to take the cover off to monkey with
it. If you feel it is cycling on an off too much, adjusting the drift
setting may help with that.

"Setback" usually refers to a feature on the thermostat that allows
you to set the temp to different values for different periods of the
day. So for example you can set it to go down at night, and perhaps
during the middle of the day if no one is home then, but be toasty in
the morning and evening when you are up and around. -- H

On Jan 4, 9:42*am, Heathcliff wrote:
On Jan 3, 3:22 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:





On Jan 3, 3:00 pm, Heathcliff wrote:

On Jan 3, 11:33 am, dpb wrote:

Heathcliff wrote:

...

It is true that for best efficiency, the furnace should be sized so
that it is just able to keep up on the coldest days. *An oversized
furnace that cycles frequently will waste energy. ...

How, precisely, do you come to that conclusion? *Given two otherwise
comparative units, how does size alone affect efficiency?

--

Fair enough, here are some references:

http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/publicati.../03-109-e.html
(canada mortgage and housing corporation technical bulletin)

http://www.alpinehomeair.com/Furnace...fm(homeheating
supply co.)

and it's not just efficiency, but also early failure of the unit is a
possibility. -- H

I can understand the oversized furnace issue. *What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

I think most thermostats have an adjustment that determines how far
off the setpoint it allows the temp to drift before taking action. *So
for example if you set it to 68, will it allow the temperature to
drift down to 67.5, or 67, or 66 before kicking on the furnace,
depends on this adjustment. *I know my old cheapo Honeywell round
thermostat had this, but you had to take the cover off to monkey with
it. *If you feel it is cycling on an off too much, adjusting the drift
setting may help with that.

"Setback" usually refers to a feature on the thermostat that allows
you to set the temp to different values for different periods of the
day. *So for example you can set it to go down at night, and perhaps
during the middle of the day if no one is home then, but be toasty in
the morning and evening when you are up and around. * -- H- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Maybe its called, Swing

On Jan 4, 9:12*am, ransley wrote:
On Jan 4, 8:56*am, ATJaguarX wrote:





On Jan 3, 10:50*pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01*pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue. *

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you are lucky those were Energy Star rated windows and your
complaint will be easily fixed because to get that rating they must be
the best, but I dought any new modern windows today is designed that
poorly so that you can actualy feel a leak, When my Pella leaked Pella
came out for free and fixed it, it was only 2 months old. Did you find
an air infiltration rating for them from the co that made them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They are SilverLine windows and I don't know what model they are. The
builder is scheduling to have a SilverLine window guy come out and
take a look.

On Jan 4, 9:42*am, Heathcliff wrote:
On Jan 3, 3:22 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:





On Jan 3, 3:00 pm, Heathcliff wrote:

On Jan 3, 11:33 am, dpb wrote:

Heathcliff wrote:

...

It is true that for best efficiency, the furnace should be sized so
that it is just able to keep up on the coldest days. *An oversized
furnace that cycles frequently will waste energy. ...

How, precisely, do you come to that conclusion? *Given two otherwise
comparative units, how does size alone affect efficiency?

--

Fair enough, here are some references:

http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/publicati.../03-109-e.html
(canada mortgage and housing corporation technical bulletin)

http://www.alpinehomeair.com/Furnace...fm(homeheating
supply co.)

and it's not just efficiency, but also early failure of the unit is a
possibility. -- H

I can understand the oversized furnace issue. *What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

I think most thermostats have an adjustment that determines how far
off the setpoint it allows the temp to drift before taking action. *So
for example if you set it to 68, will it allow the temperature to
drift down to 67.5, or 67, or 66 before kicking on the furnace,
depends on this adjustment. *I know my old cheapo Honeywell round
thermostat had this, but you had to take the cover off to monkey with
it. *If you feel it is cycling on an off too much, adjusting the drift
setting may help with that.

"Setback" usually refers to a feature on the thermostat that allows
you to set the temp to different values for different periods of the
day. *So for example you can set it to go down at night, and perhaps
during the middle of the day if no one is home then, but be toasty in
the morning and evening when you are up and around. * -- H- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We do have a programmable thermostat, but it doesn't help much since I
have a stay at home wife with 3 kids... so the house is always set to
69.

I went through the manual (will check again tonight), but I found
nothing about the setpoint. Here is the thermostat that I have:

http://yourhome.honeywell.com/Consum...RO/Default.htm

On Jan 4, 9:18*am, ransley wrote:
On Jan 4, 8:56*am, ATJaguarX wrote:





On Jan 3, 10:50*pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01*pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue. *

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question...

On Jan 4, 1:11*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:
On Jan 4, 9:18*am, ransley wrote:





On Jan 4, 8:56*am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50*pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01*pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue. *

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". *Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

ransley wrote:
....

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

Which is what I said earlier -- I'm convinced the air infiltration is an
installation problem, not the window itself.

--

On Jan 4, 2:26*pm, dpb wrote:
ransley wrote:

...

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

Which is what I said earlier -- I'm convinced the air infiltration is an
installation problem, not the window itself.

--

He said the air comes in the side tracks of the window that would not
be an installation issue although with his uneven heating and an 80%
furnace the builder cut corners.

ransley wrote:
On Jan 4, 2:26 pm, dpb wrote:
ransley wrote:

...

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.
Which is what I said earlier -- I'm convinced the air infiltration is an
installation problem, not the window itself.

--

He said the air comes in the side tracks of the window that would not
be an installation issue although with his uneven heating and an 80%
furnace the builder cut corners.

Depends -- I suspect that is behind the air seal of the window itself
and is infiltration into the cavity. Would have to see the specifics of
the window design to be absolutely sure, but seems unlikely it's an
inherent design flaw.

--

On Jan 4, 5:29*pm, ransley wrote:
On Jan 4, 2:26*pm, dpb wrote:

ransley wrote:

...

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

Which is what I said earlier -- I'm convinced the air infiltration is an
installation problem, not the window itself.

--

He said the air comes in the side tracks of the window that would not
be an installation issue although with his uneven heating and an 80%
furnace the builder cut corners.

I'm sure that the windows are the bottom of the line SilverLines... I
have yet to get an answer on what model/series they are.

After having the HVAC guy here for a few hours today and having him
properly label all ducts, we adjusted the dampers and pretty much have
all rooms within a degree or 2 of each other (theromostat currently at
69 and the "cold" room is at 68.2). I think the biggest issue was
that I have a vent in my tv room about 10 feet away from the
thermostat with a duct run of approx 12 feet. This was pumping out
mega heat and was causing the thermostat to shut off much sooner and
wasn't running enough to heat the other rooms.

I had mentioned to him that the one room (the only room we really
close off) gets cold at night. This is my baby's room and we like to
close the door until the kids go to bed (so they dont wake her). We
notice that when we close the door, the room drops a few degrees (as
much as 5). I think this has plenty to do with the windows and the
air infiltration. Both the builder and the HVAC guy gave me the
following reason. They said that when you close a room off like that,
you're seperating it from the rest of the house. Since the room has 2
windows and 2 outside walls (and a ceiling), its going to get colder.
I'm not sure if this is BS or not. It's not a large bedroom at 10x13
and this is the room that had heat coming out at 100+ degrees, so I
don't know if i buy it. I know the master bedroom seems to get warmer
if we keep the door closed (which we do), but we have a total of 5
vents in the master bedroom/bath/closet.

On Jan 4, 2:26*pm, dpb wrote:
ransley wrote:

...

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

Which is what I said earlier -- I'm convinced the air infiltration is an
installation problem, not the window itself.

--

I posted pictures of my windows earlier in this thread. You'll see
that the "insulation" on the side of the lower sash consist of just a
thin piece of felt like material. I don't know how this is supposed
to insulate.

On Jan 4, 9:31*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:
On Jan 4, 2:26*pm, dpb wrote:

ransley wrote:

...

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

Which is what I said earlier -- I'm convinced the air infiltration is an
installation problem, not the window itself.

--

I posted pictures of my windows earlier in this thread. *You'll see
that the "insulation" on the side of the lower sash consist of just a
thin piece of felt like material. *I don't know how this is supposed
to insulate.

Id say the builder hired the cheapest hvac guy he could, to have a
difference of f5 from the first to the second floor your first floor
needs more supply, your furnace has a design in the temp rise, just
closing vents without checking the temp rise just above the furnace
will with enough vents closed raise the temp to above the heat
exchangers limit for long life. And I bet he did not check its temp.
Hire someone like an inspector to go over everything before your
warranty runs out.

On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:
On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:



On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue.

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made

Anderson just bought SilverLine in 2006, and, according to this press
release, the operate the company as a "stand alone subsidiary."

I haven't noticed a difference in quality from before Anderson bought
them 'til now. They are an inexpensive, perfect for a builder. Not
necessarily bad, but not top end either.

To the OP - I would expect that the hvac guy told you that the t-stat
is capable (internally) of reading down to a tenth of a degree. It
will run the furnace as necessary, sometimes in short cycles, to keep
the house at the setpoint of the t-stat. This is done for your
comfort, as wide swings would be annoying.

JK

On Jan 4, 1:51 pm, ransley wrote:
On Jan 4, 1:11 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:



On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue.

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.


The SilverLine 1200 windows are plain insulated glass, while the 9500
series have low-E glass. I am guessing that the 9500's (about 30%
more expensive +/-) carry the energy star rating.

You can be mad at the builder, but if there aren't any regulations
requiring the builder to use a window that meets a certain rating,
then it is hard to expect them to use anything better than what is
required.

I am doing a major addition on my house, and all my windows are
Marvins, at an average cost of $450 / window. I could get Silverline
1200's in the same size for about $100 each. A builder isn't going to
do this, since they are trying to make money on the house, where I am
trying to make something that I will be proud to live in for the next
20 years.

JK

On Jan 5, 1:39*am, Big_Jake wrote:
On Jan 4, 1:51 pm, ransley wrote:





On Jan 4, 1:11 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue.

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". *Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

The SilverLine 1200 windows are plain insulated glass, while the 9500
series have low-E glass. *I am guessing that the 9500's (about 30%
more expensive +/-) carry the energy star rating.

You can be mad at the builder, but if there aren't any regulations
requiring the builder to use a window that meets a certain rating,
then it is hard to expect them to use anything better than what is
required.

I am doing a major addition on my house, and all my windows are
Marvins, at an average cost of $450 / window. *I could get Silverline
1200's in the same size for about $100 each. *A builder isn't going to
do this, since they are trying to make money on the house, where I am
trying to make something that I will be proud to live in for the next
20 years.

JK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even a 100$ window should not have noticable air leaking in from the
channel where the window slides up and down, Im sure there is a good
air infiltration rating published for them at silverline, the question
is whether they meet the rating and if the install is an issue,
defects occur but can the HO figure it out. R or U value is mainly for
glass in this case, and would not be a part of an air leakage rating .
If he calls different manufacturers they will say he should not feel
air comming in at 10-20mph winds, i did. He has to find ratings and
do research to figure it out. I went through this and Pella replaced
seals on several new windows for free.

On Jan 5, 9:28*am, ransley wrote:
On Jan 5, 1:39*am, Big_Jake wrote:





On Jan 4, 1:51 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:11 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue.

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". *Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

The SilverLine 1200 windows are plain insulated glass, while the 9500
series have low-E glass. *I am guessing that the 9500's (about 30%
more expensive +/-) carry the energy star rating.

You can be mad at the builder, but if there aren't any regulations
requiring the builder to use a window that meets a certain rating,
then it is hard to expect them to use anything better than what is
required.

I am doing a major addition on my house, and all my windows are
Marvins, at an average cost of $450 / window. *I could get Silverline
1200's in the same size for about $100 each. *A builder isn't going to
do this, since they are trying to make money on the house, where I am
trying to make something that I will be proud to live in for the next
20 years.

JK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even a 100$ window should not have noticable air leaking in from the
channel where the window slides up and down, Im sure there is a good
air infiltration rating published for them at silverline, the question
is whether they meet the rating and if the install is an issue,
defects occur but can the HO figure it out. R or U value is mainly for
glass in this case, and would not be a part of an air leakage rating .
If he calls different manufacturers they will say he should not feel
air comming in at 10-20mph winds, i did. *He has to find ratings and
do research to figure it out. I went through this and Pella replaced
seals on several new windows for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if I found what the air infiltration rate should be of the
window, I have no idea how to test it.

After doing a bit of investigation this weekend (since it was
55degrees out), I think I might have found the issue. There is a slit
on the outside of the window at the bottom of the casing that is not
caulked. I belive it is not caulked to allow water to seep out. This
looks like it would allow air to enter the side cavities. I don't
think I want to caulk the outside casing since I would want water to
drain, but I think it would be safe to caulk the inside of the
cavity. I'll have to do more research tonight. I'm going to take
leaf blower to different areas of the window and see where its getting
in.

On Jan 5, 1:39*am, Big_Jake wrote:
On Jan 4, 1:51 pm, ransley wrote:





On Jan 4, 1:11 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue.

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". *Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

The SilverLine 1200 windows are plain insulated glass, while the 9500
series have low-E glass. *I am guessing that the 9500's (about 30%
more expensive +/-) carry the energy star rating.

You can be mad at the builder, but if there aren't any regulations
requiring the builder to use a window that meets a certain rating,
then it is hard to expect them to use anything better than what is
required.

I am doing a major addition on my house, and all my windows are
Marvins, at an average cost of $450 / window. *I could get Silverline
1200's in the same size for about $100 each. *A builder isn't going to
do this, since they are trying to make money on the house, where I am
trying to make something that I will be proud to live in for the next
20 years.

JK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Although they have not gotten back to me on the exact model of
Silverline's, their spec list calls for "Energy efficient double pane-
low e vinyl windows".

On Jan 7, 8:37*am, ATJaguarX wrote:
On Jan 5, 9:28*am, ransley wrote:





On Jan 5, 1:39*am, Big_Jake wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:51 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:11 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue.

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". *Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

The SilverLine 1200 windows are plain insulated glass, while the 9500
series have low-E glass. *I am guessing that the 9500's (about 30%
more expensive +/-) carry the energy star rating.

You can be mad at the builder, but if there aren't any regulations
requiring the builder to use a window that meets a certain rating,
then it is hard to expect them to use anything better than what is
required.

I am doing a major addition on my house, and all my windows are
Marvins, at an average cost of $450 / window. *I could get Silverline
1200's in the same size for about $100 each. *A builder isn't going to
do this, since they are trying to make money on the house, where I am
trying to make something that I will be proud to live in for the next
20 years.

JK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even a 100$ window should not have noticable air leaking in from the
channel where the window slides up and down, Im sure there is a good
air infiltration rating published for them at silverline, the question
is whether they meet the rating and if the install is an issue,
defects occur but can the HO figure it out. R or U value is mainly for
glass in this case, and would not be a part of an air leakage rating .
If he calls different manufacturers they will say he should not feel
air comming in at 10-20mph winds, i did. *He has to find ratings and
do research to figure it out. I went through this and Pella replaced
seals on several new windows for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if I found what the air infiltration rate should be of the
window, I have no idea how to test it.

After doing a bit of investigation this weekend (since it was
55degrees out), I think I might have found the issue. *There is a slit
on the outside of the window at the bottom of the casing that is not
caulked. *I belive it is not caulked to allow water to seep out. *This
looks like it would allow air to enter the side cavities. *I don't
think I want to caulk the outside casing since I would want water to
drain, but I think it would be safe to caulk the inside of the
cavity. *I'll have to do more research tonight. *I'm going to take
leaf blower to different areas of the window and see where its getting
in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let the window co tell you whats wrong, let the builder fix it. If it
has a infiltration rating its a good enough window where you should
not feel air comming in with under maybe 40 mph wind gusts

On Jan 7, 8:41*am, ransley wrote:
On Jan 7, 8:37*am, ATJaguarX wrote:





On Jan 5, 9:28*am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 5, 1:39*am, Big_Jake wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:51 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:11 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue.

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". *Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

The SilverLine 1200 windows are plain insulated glass, while the 9500
series have low-E glass. *I am guessing that the 9500's (about 30%
more expensive +/-) carry the energy star rating.

You can be mad at the builder, but if there aren't any regulations
requiring the builder to use a window that meets a certain rating,
then it is hard to expect them to use anything better than what is
required.

I am doing a major addition on my house, and all my windows are
Marvins, at an average cost of $450 / window. *I could get Silverline
1200's in the same size for about $100 each. *A builder isn't going to
do this, since they are trying to make money on the house, where I am
trying to make something that I will be proud to live in for the next
20 years.

JK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even a 100$ window should not have noticable air leaking in from the
channel where the window slides up and down, Im sure there is a good
air infiltration rating published for them at silverline, the question
is whether they meet the rating and if the install is an issue,
defects occur but can the HO figure it out. R or U value is mainly for
glass in this case, and would not be a part of an air leakage rating .
If he calls different manufacturers they will say he should not feel
air comming in at 10-20mph winds, i did. *He has to find ratings and
do research to figure it out. I went through this and Pella replaced
seals on several new windows for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if I found what the air infiltration rate should be of the
window, I have no idea how to test it.

After doing a bit of investigation this weekend (since it was
55degrees out), I think I might have found the issue. *There is a slit
on the outside of the window at the bottom of the casing that is not
caulked. *I belive it is not caulked to allow water to seep out. *This
looks like it would allow air to enter the side cavities. *I don't
think I want to caulk the outside casing since I would want water to
drain, but I think it would be safe to caulk the inside of the
cavity. *I'll have to do more research tonight. *I'm going to take
leaf blower to different areas of the window and see where its getting
in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let the window co tell you whats wrong, let the builder fix it. If it
has a infiltration rating its a good enough window where you should
not feel air comming in with under maybe 40 mph wind gusts- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh... I'm sure the window company will say that nothing is wrong with
it.

On Jan 4, 9:30*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:
On Jan 4, 5:29*pm, ransley wrote:





On Jan 4, 2:26*pm, dpb wrote:

ransley wrote:

...

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

Which is what I said earlier -- I'm convinced the air infiltration is an
installation problem, not the window itself.

--

He said the air comes in the side tracks of the window that would not
be an installation issue although with his uneven heating and an 80%
furnace the builder cut corners.

I'm sure that the windows are the bottom of the line SilverLines... I
have yet to get an answer on what model/series they are.

After having the HVAC guy here for a few hours today and having him
properly label all ducts, we adjusted the dampers and pretty much have
all rooms within a degree or 2 of each other (theromostat currently at
69 and the "cold" room is at 68.2). *I think the biggest issue was
that I have a vent in my tv room about 10 feet away from the
thermostat with a duct run of approx 12 feet. *This was pumping out
mega heat and was causing the thermostat to shut off much sooner and
wasn't running enough to heat the other rooms.

I had mentioned to him that the one room (the only room we really
close off) gets cold at night. *This is my baby's room and we like to
close the door until the kids go to bed (so they dont wake her). *We
notice that when we close the door, the room drops a few degrees (as
much as 5). *I think this has plenty to do with the windows and the
air infiltration. *Both the builder and the HVAC guy gave me the
following reason. *They said that when you close a room off like that,
you're seperating it from the rest of the house. *Since the room has 2
windows and 2 outside walls (and a ceiling), its going to get colder.
I'm not sure if this is BS or not. *It's not a large bedroom at 10x13
and this is the room that had heat coming out at 100+ degrees, so I
don't know if i buy it. *I know the master bedroom seems to get warmer
if we keep the door closed (which we do), but we have a total of 5
vents in the master bedroom/bath/closet.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So... the builder had this nifty tool that shot a lazer beam at a
surface and read the surface temp. The temp outside was around 25 and
the outside walls were between 63 and 65 degrees with the thermostat
at 68. I was talking to a buddy and he told me that 63-65 was
unacceptable. Too me, it seems reasonable... but he started accusing
me of defending the builder... that the outside walls should be near
the temp of the the room/thermostat. IMHO... you would need 2 feet of
insulation for that.

On Jan 7, 8:41*am, ransley wrote:
On Jan 7, 8:37*am, ATJaguarX wrote:





On Jan 5, 9:28*am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 5, 1:39*am, Big_Jake wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:51 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:11 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue.

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". *Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

The SilverLine 1200 windows are plain insulated glass, while the 9500
series have low-E glass. *I am guessing that the 9500's (about 30%
more expensive +/-) carry the energy star rating.

You can be mad at the builder, but if there aren't any regulations
requiring the builder to use a window that meets a certain rating,
then it is hard to expect them to use anything better than what is
required.

I am doing a major addition on my house, and all my windows are
Marvins, at an average cost of $450 / window. *I could get Silverline
1200's in the same size for about $100 each. *A builder isn't going to
do this, since they are trying to make money on the house, where I am
trying to make something that I will be proud to live in for the next
20 years.

JK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even a 100$ window should not have noticable air leaking in from the
channel where the window slides up and down, Im sure there is a good
air infiltration rating published for them at silverline, the question
is whether they meet the rating and if the install is an issue,
defects occur but can the HO figure it out. R or U value is mainly for
glass in this case, and would not be a part of an air leakage rating .
If he calls different manufacturers they will say he should not feel
air comming in at 10-20mph winds, i did. *He has to find ratings and
do research to figure it out. I went through this and Pella replaced
seals on several new windows for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if I found what the air infiltration rate should be of the
window, I have no idea how to test it.

After doing a bit of investigation this weekend (since it was
55degrees out), I think I might have found the issue. *There is a slit
on the outside of the window at the bottom of the casing that is not
caulked. *I belive it is not caulked to allow water to seep out. *This
looks like it would allow air to enter the side cavities. *I don't
think I want to caulk the outside casing since I would want water to
drain, but I think it would be safe to caulk the inside of the
cavity. *I'll have to do more research tonight. *I'm going to take
leaf blower to different areas of the window and see where its getting
in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let the window co tell you whats wrong, let the builder fix it. If it
has a infiltration rating its a good enough window where you should
not feel air comming in with under maybe 40 mph wind gusts- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So... I should get a Silverline rep out... not the company that
installed them.

On Jan 7, 3:55*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:
On Jan 7, 8:41*am, ransley wrote:





On Jan 7, 8:37*am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 5, 9:28*am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 5, 1:39*am, Big_Jake wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:51 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:11 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue.

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". *Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

The SilverLine 1200 windows are plain insulated glass, while the 9500
series have low-E glass. *I am guessing that the 9500's (about 30%
more expensive +/-) carry the energy star rating.

You can be mad at the builder, but if there aren't any regulations
requiring the builder to use a window that meets a certain rating,
then it is hard to expect them to use anything better than what is
required.

I am doing a major addition on my house, and all my windows are
Marvins, at an average cost of $450 / window. *I could get Silverline
1200's in the same size for about $100 each. *A builder isn't going to
do this, since they are trying to make money on the house, where I am
trying to make something that I will be proud to live in for the next
20 years.

JK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even a 100$ window should not have noticable air leaking in from the
channel where the window slides up and down, Im sure there is a good
air infiltration rating published for them at silverline, the question
is whether they meet the rating and if the install is an issue,
defects occur but can the HO figure it out. R or U value is mainly for
glass in this case, and would not be a part of an air leakage rating

On Jan 7, 4:00*pm, ransley wrote:
On Jan 7, 3:55*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:





On Jan 7, 8:41*am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 7, 8:37*am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 5, 9:28*am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 5, 1:39*am, Big_Jake wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:51 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:11 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue.

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". *Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

The SilverLine 1200 windows are plain insulated glass, while the 9500
series have low-E glass. *I am guessing that the 9500's (about 30%
more expensive +/-) carry the energy star rating.

You can be mad at the builder, but if there aren't any regulations
requiring the builder to use a window that meets a certain rating,
then it is hard to expect them to use anything better than what is
required.

I am doing a major addition on my house, and all my windows are
Marvins, at an average cost of $450 / window. *I could get Silverline
1200's in the same size for about $100 each. *A builder isn't going to
do this, since they are trying to make money on the house, where I am
trying to make something that I will be proud to live in for the next
20 years.

JK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even a 100$ window should not have noticable air leaking in from the
channel where the window slides up and down, Im sure there is a good
air infiltration rating published for them at silverline, the question
is whether they meet the rating and if the install is an issue,
defects occur but can the HO figure it out. R or U value is mainly for
glass in this case, and would not be a part of an air leakage rating .
If he calls different manufacturers they will say he should not feel
air comming in at 10-20mph winds, i did. *He has to find ratings and
do research to figure it out. I went through this and Pella replaced
seals on several new windows for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if I found what the air infiltration rate should be of the
window, I have no idea how to test it.

After doing a bit of investigation this weekend (since it was
55degrees out), I think I might have found the issue. *There is a slit
on the outside of the window at the bottom of the casing that is not
caulked. *I belive it is not caulked to allow water to seep out. *This
looks like it would allow air to enter the side cavities. *I don't
think I want to caulk the outside casing since I would want water to
drain, but I think it would be safe to caulk the inside of the
cavity. *I'll have to do more research tonight. *I'm going to take
leaf blower to different areas of the window and see where its getting
in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let the window co tell you whats wrong, let the builder fix it. If it
has a infiltration rating its a good enough window where you should
not feel air comming in with under maybe 40 mph wind gusts- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So... I should get a Silverline rep out... not the company that
installed them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You need an independant inspector, call Silverline and an atty. you
are being BSed Im in OakPark Ill . I bet your subdivision is
substandard..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A Silverline rep is coming out today. I'm almost positive that its
from the weep holes. The windows are Silverline 2900 single hung. I
found the model number on the window. They are definately not their
cheapest builder grade windows. "Our Premier New Construction Single
Hung Window".

http://www.silverlinewindow.com/prod...NC&type=single

On Jan 8, 8:11*am, ATJaguarX wrote:
On Jan 7, 4:00*pm, ransley wrote:





On Jan 7, 3:55*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 7, 8:41*am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 7, 8:37*am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 5, 9:28*am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 5, 1:39*am, Big_Jake wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:51 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:11 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue.

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". *Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

The SilverLine 1200 windows are plain insulated glass, while the 9500
series have low-E glass. *I am guessing that the 9500's (about 30%
more expensive +/-) carry the energy star rating.

You can be mad at the builder, but if there aren't any regulations
requiring the builder to use a window that meets a certain rating,
then it is hard to expect them to use anything better than what is
required.

I am doing a major addition on my house, and all my windows are
Marvins, at an average cost of $450 / window. *I could get Silverline
1200's in the same size for about $100 each. *A builder isn't going to
do this, since they are trying to make money on the house, where I am
trying to make something that I will be proud to live in for the next
20 years.

JK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even a 100$ window should not have noticable air leaking in from the
channel where the window slides up and down, Im sure there is a good
air infiltration rating published for them at silverline, the question
is whether they meet the rating and if the install is an issue,
defects occur but can the HO figure it out. R or U value is mainly for
glass in this case, and would not be a part of an air leakage rating .
If he calls different manufacturers they will say he should not feel
air comming in at 10-20mph winds, i did. *He has to find ratings and
do research to figure it out. I went through this and Pella replaced
seals on several new windows for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if I found what the air infiltration rate should be of the
window, I have no idea how to test it.

After doing a bit of investigation this weekend (since it was
55degrees out), I think I might have found the issue. *There is a slit
on the outside of the window at the bottom of the casing that is not
caulked. *I belive it is not caulked to allow water to seep out. *This
looks like it would allow air to enter the side cavities. *I don't
think I want to caulk the outside casing since I would want water to
drain, but I think it would be safe to caulk the inside of the
cavity. *I'll have to do more research tonight. *I'm going to take
leaf blower to different areas of the window and see where its getting
in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let the window co tell you whats wrong, let the builder fix it. If it
has a infiltration rating its a good enough window where you should
not feel air comming in with under maybe 40 mph wind gusts- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So... I should get a Silverline rep out... not the company that
installed them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You need an independant inspector, call Silverline and an atty. you
are being BSed Im in OakPark Ill . I bet your subdivision is
substandard..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A Silverline rep is coming out today. *I'm almost positive that its
from the weep holes. *The windows are Silverline 2900 single hung. *I
found the model number on the window. *They are definately not their
cheapest builder grade windows. *"Our Premier New Construction Single
Hung Window".

http://www.silverlinewindow.com/prod...at=NC&typ....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I saw the air infiltration test, you should not feel any air comming
in.

On Jan 8, 8:43*am, ransley wrote:
On Jan 8, 8:11*am, ATJaguarX wrote:





On Jan 7, 4:00*pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 7, 3:55*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 7, 8:41*am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 7, 8:37*am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 5, 9:28*am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 5, 1:39*am, Big_Jake wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:51 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:11 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue..

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". *Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

The SilverLine 1200 windows are plain insulated glass, while the 9500
series have low-E glass. *I am guessing that the 9500's (about 30%
more expensive +/-) carry the energy star rating.

You can be mad at the builder, but if there aren't any regulations
requiring the builder to use a window that meets a certain rating,
then it is hard to expect them to use anything better than what is
required.

I am doing a major addition on my house, and all my windows are
Marvins, at an average cost of $450 / window. *I could get Silverline
1200's in the same size for about $100 each. *A builder isn't going to
do this, since they are trying to make money on the house, where I am
trying to make something that I will be proud to live in for the next
20 years.

JK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even a 100$ window should not have noticable air leaking in from the
channel where the window slides up and down, Im sure there is a good
air infiltration rating published for them at silverline, the question
is whether they meet the rating and if the install is an issue,
defects occur but can the HO figure it out. R or U value is mainly for
glass in this case, and would not be a part of an air leakage rating .
If he calls different manufacturers they will say he should not feel
air comming in at 10-20mph winds, i did. *He has to find ratings and
do research to figure it out. I went through this and Pella replaced
seals on several new windows for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if I found what the air infiltration rate should be of the
window, I have no idea how to test it.

After doing a bit of investigation this weekend (since it was
55degrees out), I think I might have found the issue. *There is a slit
on the outside of the window at the bottom of the casing that is not
caulked. *I belive it is not caulked to allow water to seep out. *This
looks like it would allow air to enter the side cavities. *I don't
think I want to caulk the outside casing since I would want water to
drain, but I think it would be safe to caulk the inside of the
cavity. *I'll have to do more research tonight. *I'm going to take
leaf blower to different areas of the window and see where its getting
in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let the window co tell you whats wrong, let the builder fix it. If it
has a infiltration rating its a good enough window where you should
not feel air comming in with under maybe 40 mph wind gusts- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So... I should get a Silverline rep out... not the company that
installed them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You need an independant inspector, call Silverline and an atty. you
are being BSed Im in OakPark Ill . I bet your subdivision is
substandard..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A Silverline rep is coming out today. *I'm almost positive that its
from the weep holes. *The windows are Silverline 2900 single hung. *I
found the model number on the window. *They are definately not their
cheapest builder grade windows. *"Our Premier New Construction Single
Hung Window".

http://www.silverlinewindow.com/prod...NC&typ....Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I saw the air infiltration test, you should not feel any air comming
in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Silverline rep just left about an hour ago. He replaced the felt pile
with stuff twice the thickness. He said that the state of Illinois
allows a 12% infiltration rate on windows. I live in a middle of a
subdivision with no houses built around me yet. He said, until the
houses around me are built up, with the winds in the open fields
around my house gusting, you're always going to feel a small amout of
air. He claims no window can keep all the air out.

I think it comes down to the fact that I have cheap builder grade
windows.

On Jan 8, 8:43*am, ransley wrote:
On Jan 8, 8:11*am, ATJaguarX wrote:





On Jan 7, 4:00*pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 7, 3:55*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 7, 8:41*am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 7, 8:37*am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 5, 9:28*am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 5, 1:39*am, Big_Jake wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:51 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:11 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue..

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". *Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

The SilverLine 1200 windows are plain insulated glass, while the 9500
series have low-E glass. *I am guessing that the 9500's (about 30%
more expensive +/-) carry the energy star rating.

You can be mad at the builder, but if there aren't any regulations
requiring the builder to use a window that meets a certain rating,
then it is hard to expect them to use anything better than what is
required.

I am doing a major addition on my house, and all my windows are
Marvins, at an average cost of $450 / window. *I could get Silverline
1200's in the same size for about $100 each. *A builder isn't going to
do this, since they are trying to make money on the house, where I am
trying to make something that I will be proud to live in for the next
20 years.

JK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even a 100$ window should not have noticable air leaking in from the
channel where the window slides up and down, Im sure there is a good
air infiltration rating published for them at silverline, the question
is whether they meet the rating and if the install is an issue,
defects occur but can the HO figure it out. R or U value is mainly for
glass in this case, and would not be a part of an air leakage rating .
If he calls different manufacturers they will say he should not feel
air comming in at 10-20mph winds, i did. *He has to find ratings and
do research to figure it out. I went through this and Pella replaced
seals on several new windows for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if I found what the air infiltration rate should be of the
window, I have no idea how to test it.

After doing a bit of investigation this weekend (since it was
55degrees out), I think I might have found the issue. *There is a slit
on the outside of the window at the bottom of the casing that is not
caulked. *I belive it is not caulked to allow water to seep out. *This
looks like it would allow air to enter the side cavities. *I don't
think I want to caulk the outside casing since I would want water to
drain, but I think it would be safe to caulk the inside of the
cavity. *I'll have to do more research tonight. *I'm going to take
leaf blower to different areas of the window and see where its getting
in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let the window co tell you whats wrong, let the builder fix it. If it
has a infiltration rating its a good enough window where you should
not feel air comming in with under maybe 40 mph wind gusts- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So... I should get a Silverline rep out... not the company that
installed them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You need an independant inspector, call Silverline and an atty. you
are being BSed Im in OakPark Ill . I bet your subdivision is
substandard..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A Silverline rep is coming out today. *I'm almost positive that its
from the weep holes. *The windows are Silverline 2900 single hung. *I
found the model number on the window. *They are definately not their
cheapest builder grade windows. *"Our Premier New Construction Single
Hung Window".

http://www.silverlinewindow.com/prod...NC&typ....Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I saw the air infiltration test, you should not feel any air comming
in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

How do you do an air infiltration test? He said that the only way
these tests are done, are in the lab. He said there is no way to
actually test the actual percentage of air getting through a window at
a homeowners house.

On Jan 8, 4:54*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:
On Jan 8, 8:43*am, ransley wrote:





On Jan 8, 8:11*am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 7, 4:00*pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 7, 3:55*pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 7, 8:41*am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 7, 8:37*am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 5, 9:28*am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 5, 1:39*am, Big_Jake wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:51 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 1:11 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 4, 9:18 am, ransley wrote:

On Jan 4, 8:56 am, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 10:50 pm, ransley wrote:

On Jan 3, 8:49 pm, ATJaguarX wrote:

On Jan 3, 6:01 pm, dpb wrote:

ATJaguarX wrote:

...

I can understand the oversized furnace issue.

Well, the first reference concludes that their research to determine the
effect of sizing on efficiency wasn't so successful -- see earlier
quote. *I also doubt unless it were _grossly_ wrong that the cycling off
a few times per hour could be measured in reduced longevity vis a vis
the more continual operation.

What I don't understand
is why my furnace will shut off and fire back up 10 mins later when I
have my thermostat set to 69 degrees. *I would think that the furnace
should be able to stay off for longer then that. *I've noticed that
the thermostat never drops a single degree before it kicks the furnace
back on again. *Is there something internal on the thermostat that
measures fractions of a degree?

Possibly could be an excessively sensitive thermostat or perhaps there's
a breeze blowing by it that it's sensing on the switching element or
something similar. *It may also have a sensitivity adjustment,
particularly if it is digital, not analog.

--

I've gone through the installation manual and there is an option to
set the cycles per hour, but nothing about sensitivity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There must be a setting for degree setback . On my Lux it has 1- 10 ,
I have it set I think at 3 or 4 and it is not degrees, but it is not
at this location so I dont know . Modern thermostasts have this
option, read your non understandable, illogical, *Chinese manual that
came with it..Or just set setback up 1 number and experement.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Another cold night of drafty windows. *Winds were blowing from the
south and the rooms on the south side of the house experienced a temp
of 66 while the thermostat was at 69.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just googled and found SilverLine windows are a division of Anderson
which are tops, Contact Anderson also I think a rep will come out for
free immediatly, Anderson did for me, Being a division of Anderson
they should be well made- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After doing some digging on Silverline's website, I found the
following:

"The ENERGY STAR program was developed by the US Department of Energy
and the US Environmental Protection Agency to help consumers identify
products that save energy and, therefore, keep your home more
comfortable. All Silver Line windows and patio doors, when ordered
with the appropriate glass, meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines
in all 50 states."

- All Silver Line windows ... when ordered with the appropriate glass,
meet or exceed the ENERGY STAR guidelines...". *Now, were my windows
ordered with the appropriate glass... thats the question...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your issue is not the glass, yet. To meet or exceed ES guidlines
verified air infiltration tests should be good meaning you could have
a defect. I dont think you should feel air comming in on an Energy
Star window, get the test data from silverline and compare it to
others.

The SilverLine 1200 windows are plain insulated glass, while the 9500
series have low-E glass. *I am guessing that the 9500's (about 30%
more expensive +/-) carry the energy star rating.

You can be mad at the builder, but if there aren't any regulations
requiring the builder to use a window that meets a certain rating,
then it is hard to expect them to use anything better than what is
required.

I am doing a major addition on my house, and all my windows are
Marvins, at an average cost of $450 / window. *I could get Silverline
1200's in the same size for about $100 each. *A builder isn't going to
do this, since they are trying to make money on the house, where I am
trying to make something that I will be proud to live in for the next
20 years.

JK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even a 100$ window should not have noticable air leaking in from the
channel where the window slides up and down, Im sure there is a good
air infiltration rating published for them at silverline, the question
is whether they meet the rating and if the install is an issue,
defects occur but can the HO figure it out. R or U value is mainly for
glass in this case, and would not be a part of an air leakage rating .
If he calls different manufacturers they will say he should not feel
air comming in at 10-20mph winds, i did. *He has to find ratings and
do research to figure it out. I went through this and Pella replaced
seals on several new windows for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if I found what the air infiltration rate should be of the
window, I have no idea how to test it.

After doing a bit of investigation this weekend (since it was
55degrees out), I think I might have found the issue. *There is a slit
on the outside of the window at the bottom of the casing that is not
caulked. *I belive it is not caulked to allow water to seep out. *This
looks like it would allow air to enter the side cavities. *I don't
think I want to caulk the outside casing since I would want water to
drain, but I think it would be safe to caulk the inside of the
cavity. *I'll have to do more research tonight. *I'm going to take
leaf blower to different areas of the window and see where its getting
in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let the window co tell you whats wrong, let the builder fix it. If it
has a infiltration rating its a good enough window where you should
not feel air comming in with under maybe 40 mph wind gusts- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So... I should get a Silverline rep out... not the company that
installed them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You need an independant inspector, call Silverline and an atty. you
are being BSed Im in OakPark Ill . I bet your subdivision is
substandard..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A Silverline rep is coming out today. *I'm almost positive that its
from the weep holes. *The windows are Silverline 2900 single hung. *I
found the model number on the window. *They are definately not their
cheapest builder grade windows. *"Our Premier New Construction Single
Hung Window".

http://www.silverlinewindow.com/prod...C&typ...quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I saw the air infiltration test, you should not feel any air comming
in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

How do you do an air infiltration test? *He said that the only way
these tests are done, are in the lab. *He said there is no way to
actually test the actual percentage of air getting through a window at
a homeowners house.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Casements usualy have the best ratings in sealing out air leaks, when
I called pella they said no you should not feel any air, they came out
and fixed a few, your window rates as good as silverline casements ,
which I think is an excellant rating, the fact he did repairs tells
you something. But I still say only with 30-35 mph gusts should you
feel anything. If they leak in moderate wind they need to be fixed,
you have a lifetime warranty but need help figuring it out, the test
is done in a lab, You could get a blower door test done for maybe 300,
it will give a readout of house air exchanges per hour and the tech
goes around with a smoke stick pinpointing leaks and how good or bad
your home is overall and if he thinks windows are affecting
performance. Why didnt this rep schedule fixing all your leakers.