"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:
"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Directional drilling technology is where it is now because it meets the
current need.

"a few small sites along the perimeter using current
directional drilling technology could tap ANWR with
essentially no impact."

That is what you said to start with. It is purely a
fabrication from your imagination. Now you are changing
what you say, admitting that this statement was false.

But what you are saying *now* is false too.

Same basic technology just needs to be scaled / adapted to the task.

Wrong. If that were true, as pointed out they would
*currently* be drilling horizontally into ANWR. They
aren't. The reason is because what you are suggesting
is simply ridiculous blather from your over active
imagination.

BS, pure BS. The cost to drill from the perimeter would be vastly higher
and the value of the oil is still too low to profit from it yet.


Do you honestly think that the necessary upgrades to the
technology would not be made in short order if clearance to drill from
selected sites around ANWR were given?

Nobody in their right mind thinks that is technically
feasible. There are *no* wells being drilled those
kinds of distances, nor anywhere even close, using *any*
kind of technology, much less being drilled
horizontally!

They can most certainly manage the ANWR drilling given the goal and the
funding. The underlying technology certainly exists. There have already
been non oil well scientific drilling projects reaching the depths
necessary.

If that were true, they'd be doing it. Nobody is!
Basic fact: it ain't true.

1) The "underlying technology" does not exist.

Absolutely it does, whether your blinder let you see it or not.


2) There are hundreds of wells on the North Slope
"reaching the depths necessary", which has no
significance at all.

I specified non oil well projects, which have been drilling vastly
deeper than normal oil wells, depth comparable to the distances that
would be needed.


3) There are no wells *anywhere* that reach the
necessary *length* (7 to 25 miles).

No wells, but there are indeed drilled holes in that depth range.


Lots of things weren't possible
until there was motivation and funding to actually get them done.

If what you say were true... There would currently be
oil production from ANWR. The entire eastern edge has
been offered for lease, and in fact there are many dry
holes within 5 miles of ANWR.

It certainly is true. The investment necessary to to do it just hasn't
been made yet.

Oh, now you just say all it needs is the money...

Given that some people have been going bonkers about
drilling in ANWR for over 25 years, if it was true...
why isn't the money available?

There is only one reason: what you say is false.

Simply the price of oil. You go bonkers and try to get approval to drill
the cheap way while the value of the oil isn't enough to justify the
cost of the unconventional drilling. As the oil prices go up you get
closer to the point where the more expensive route can be profitable.


And recently the State of Alaska offered 26 offshore
tracts along the northern shore of ANWR for lease. Even
though that particular lease sale resulted in the
largest sale ever in the Beaufort Sea east of Prudhoe
Bay, not one single bid was even placed for any of the
tracts on the edge of ANWR.

Everyone is holding off, expecting to either eventually be allowed to
drill in ANWR using cheaper conventional methods, or for oil prices to
get high enough to justify the investment necessary to drill from the
perimeter.

Ha ha. Now you're getting silly. They were supposedly
chomping at the bit to get at it when oil was selling
for less that $15 a barrel, and now with peaks hitting 6
times higher, and every oil company has had record
profits for months, and you claim somebody is waiting
for favorable financial conditions???

Yep, chomping for what they can get from tried and true conventional
drilling. Oil prices need to be higher to generate interest in accessing
the oil through more difficult methods.


You are a joke.

You are the joke with your tunnel vision.


Please cease posting fabricated facts that you imagine
would support your cause. Nobody needs to hear it...

Nothing fabricated about it,

You can't support a word of it with references or cites
to credible sources. Logically what you have said is
simply silly.

Nothing at all silly about having the sense to look at what could be
done vs. keep the blinders on looking only at what is currently being
done.


it most certainly is possible. No new
technology needs to be developed,

The technology is not there. It isn't even close, and
nobody is headed in that direction.

What mystery technology do you believe would need to exist? Holes of
comparable depths have already been drilled for research.


it's just a matter of the cost to put
together the existing technologies necessary for the job.

If that were true, those lease sales just offshore of ANWR
would have gone for big dollars. Nobody even bid on one of
them.

If that were true, the leases on the eastern side of ANWR
would be merrily drilling away as we speak. They aren't.

They go for the low hanging fruit first. when that is exhausted they'll
look at the harder to reach spots.


The effort and
expense expended to reach the oil is directly tied to the market value
of the oil, and that value will only increase.

Right now the cost for production of a barrel of oil on
the North Slope is less that 20% of the market value for
that barrel of oil. If what you are saying were true,
every producer on the Slope would be trying to extract
oil from ANWR *now*.

That's the most moronic thing you've said so far. Why would they clamor
to try something new and untested, when the process could end up costing
120% of the value of what they extract? When prices go up enough it will
start to look attractive.


In fact, no oil company has shown any interest at all in
ANWR for years. Nothing close to ANWR has attracted any
attention either. Moreover the State of Alaska is
actually taking back some leases close to ANWR because
of no activity!

Again, everything you claim is just a matter of the economics, not
technological feasibility.


Pete, you just simply need to stop making up what you'd
like things to be, do a little research or don't post at
all.

I'm not making up anything.

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article , dpb wrote:

Why not?

Propose a _reasonable_ scenario by which it could.

Wait, WAIT!! I know!! [Furiously waving hand over head]

It involves a UFO, shape-shifting and time travel.

(What do you MEAN that's not reasonable?)
--

JR


Hmmm.....box cutters.

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

I feel much better.

The meds must be kicking-in.
--
JR



Hmmm.....box cutters.

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article , dpb wrote:

For nukes they have -- and much else, most of which is restricted data
simply to add security to the security plans themselves (iow, if I told
you everything I knew, I'd have to shoot you ).

For god's sake, man! Do us all a favor and TELL HIM!!
--

JR




Hmmm......box cutters, and this time, let's add another deadly (but ancient)
weapon: Cash.

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...


there was an interesting opinion piece today
(http://media.nationalreview.com/ )about Obama being a Muslim.
It seems that if born a Muslim,one is always a Muslim,or becomes an
apostate,and OK to be killed by any Faithful. Koran does not permit
conversion to other religions from Islam.

Maybe he's smart enough to make up his own mind, unlike millions of people
who run their lives according to a dusty old book written by REGULAR MEN WHO
SOLD THEMSELVES AS HOLY AND GOT AWAY WITH IT.



Aside from all that,I do not understand why anyone would vote for such an
inexperienced person like Obama OR Hillary for a critically important
position as POTUS.(Besides,Hillary being a big crook.)


They voted for Bush. What experience did he have that was so fabulous?
Wrecking Harken Oil, leaving its investors holding the bag?

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
CJT wrote:

Jim Yanik wrote:

Jim Redelfs wrote in
:


In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:


my trust level these days is virtually zero.

For god's sake, why? Because "we" elected, twice, a President not of
your choosing? We were attacked on 9/11? We've begun two wars? What
else could it be?

I am as optimistic and happy, overall, as I have ever been. I was
even this way when Clinton frittered away 8 years in the oval orifice.

However, if Hillary is elected, it's a fair bet that my positive
outlook on life will be somewhat mitigated.


The same goes for Obama.

Either one would be better than what we've been living with for the
past seven years.

Different certainly, but I'm not convinced of better by any means.


I'd be happy with someone who could speak our native language without a
script.

In article , "HeyBub"
wrote:

That is, of course, unless I am charged more than a dollar or two to
leave them. In such a case, I will return home with my bucket of
dead CFLs and dole them into the household trash, one or two a week,
until they are gone.

Don't be surprised to see a mandated "deposit" on CFLs.

That wouldn't surprise me in the least. In that event, you can be sure they
will be disposed of into the general waste stream here.
--

JR

In article , "Pete C."
wrote:

Deposits worked reasonably well on soda cans
where they were implemented.

Yeah, the only ones that DIDN'T (and don't) like the deposit practice were the
manufacturers, retailers and consumers.
--
sigh
JR

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Deposits worked reasonably well on soda cans where they were
implemented.

True, but HeyBub has been told to see that as an example of guvmint control.

Isn't it?
--
JR

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

I know. My son works part time as a lifeguard. He had to haul a 300 lb
pig
out of the pool a couple of days ago. Actually, not out of the pool. She
got
halfway up the ladder, and absent the bouyancy of water, she fell flat on
her face on the cement. Two lifeguards helped the pig to her feet.

You condescending, arrogant liberals are beneath contempt.

"Give us the poor, minority, uneducated, unequally-treated, hungry, poorly
clothed, homeless unfortunates of our mean, evil society - and we'll keep
'em
down for ya."

Instead of "thank you", they got "You boys need to do a
little more weight training".

Really? Now THAT was bad. I would've tossed her back into the pool.
--

JR


That's what I suggested, but they keep giving him hours to work when he's
home from college. Pity her poor husband, who was pushing her up the ladder
from behind. He could've been killed if she'd gone the other way.

In article , "HeyBub"
wrote:

Deposits worked reasonably well on soda cans
where they were implemented.

"Cans?"

Yes. Where CANS were implemented, the deposit scheme worked reasonably well.
(Sorry, Pete.)

You need to get your mind right, Bub!
--

JR

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article ,
AZ Nomad wrote:

I take the bus to work and bike 12 miles home.

Hey, endorphin addict: How does the bike get to work?


That was explained earlier. Maybe this will help:

http://tinyurl.com/hyj8n

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Deposits worked reasonably well on soda cans where they were
implemented.

True, but HeyBub has been told to see that as an example of guvmint
control.

Isn't it?
--
JR


You could view it that way. Or, maybe we could see it as renting the
containers. If you get a keg of beer and a tap/hose for a party, do you
expect to pay nothing for the container if you don't return it?

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article , "Pete C."
wrote:

Deposits worked reasonably well on soda cans
where they were implemented.

Yeah, the only ones that DIDN'T (and don't) like the deposit practice were
the
manufacturers, retailers and consumers.
--
sigh
JR


Somebody had to be paid to pick up the empties. Money is the only thing that
makes people behave correctly. You know that.

In article , CJT wrote:

Then I'd have to sell the travel trailer.

I have NEVER understood travel trailers. For less than the money people
sink into them, they could probably stay at the Four Seasons.

It's not a valid comparison on many levels.

Sleeping in my own bed and using my own toilet has distinct advantages for me.
Avoiding the all-night, elephant dance competition in the motel room above me
is a high priority, too.

Stepping-out of my door directly into a pristine wilderness, only to witness a
bull elk grazing a few hundred feet away just isn't the same as stepping out
the motel door, through the clouded "gauntlet" of those getting their first,
morning's nicotine fix, to the panorama of a parking lot and Hardees.

Nobody said RVing was cheap. My Silverado is proof enough. sigh
--

JR

2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT
2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD
Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Trailers are for people who think Fingerhut is an
upscale shopping experience.

ARGH!! [ROFL]

Alright, you're redeemed. That's funny! Hehehehehe!
--

JR

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Why be humble when I'm the best driver on earth? I've been conquering
upstate NY winters since 1970. I know what all other drivers are thinking
before they know what they're thinking (if you can call reactive responses
"thinking"). I am aware of everything around me. I control the space around
me with an iron fist.

I am as a god. For $800 an hour, I can teach you. That's what the
aggravation is worth.

This is good stuff! I swear, if you gave him a chance, even you would come to
appreciate Limbaugh. Too funny...
--

JR

In article , wrote:

I wonder if there was anything preventing abortions from being
accurately reported and counted when it was illegal? LOL!

Probably the same things that prevent illegal aliens from being accurately
reported and counted. It all depends on which side of the issue you embrace.
--

JR

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Why be humble when I'm the best driver on earth? I've been conquering
upstate NY winters since 1970. I know what all other drivers are thinking
before they know what they're thinking (if you can call reactive
responses
"thinking"). I am aware of everything around me. I control the space
around
me with an iron fist.

I am as a god. For $800 an hour, I can teach you. That's what the
aggravation is worth.

This is good stuff! I swear, if you gave him a chance, even you would
come to
appreciate Limbaugh. Too funny...
--

JR


When your car's about to be ungulged in flames and incinerate your worthless
body, you'll wish you'd paid the $800 an hour to know what I know.

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Trailers are for people who think Fingerhut is an
upscale shopping experience.

ARGH!! [ROFL]

Alright, you're redeemed. That's funny! Hehehehehe!
--

JR


Direct from the Louvre to your lawn:

http://tinyurl.com/259yqz

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
CJT wrote:

Jim Yanik wrote:

Jim Redelfs wrote in
:


In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:


my trust level these days is virtually zero.

For god's sake, why? Because "we" elected, twice, a President not of
your choosing? We were attacked on 9/11? We've begun two wars? What
else could it be?

I am as optimistic and happy, overall, as I have ever been. I was
even this way when Clinton frittered away 8 years in the oval orifice.

However, if Hillary is elected, it's a fair bet that my positive
outlook on life will be somewhat mitigated.


The same goes for Obama.

Either one would be better than what we've been living with for the
past seven years.

Different certainly, but I'm not convinced of better by any means.

I'd be happy with someone who could speak our native language without a
script.

They're all scripted, they just vary in how well they remember and
present it. They are all professional liars.

Pete C. wrote:

CJT wrote:

Jim Yanik wrote:


Jim Redelfs wrote in
:



In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:



my trust level these days is virtually zero.

For god's sake, why? Because "we" elected, twice, a President not of
your choosing? We were attacked on 9/11? We've begun two wars? What
else could it be?

I am as optimistic and happy, overall, as I have ever been. I was
even this way when Clinton frittered away 8 years in the oval orifice.

However, if Hillary is elected, it's a fair bet that my positive
outlook on life will be somewhat mitigated.


The same goes for Obama.


Either one would be better than what we've been living with for the
past seven years.


Different certainly, but I'm not convinced of better by any means.

I have trouble even imagining worse.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article , "HeyBub"
wrote:


That is, of course, unless I am charged more than a dollar or two to
leave them. In such a case, I will return home with my bucket of
dead CFLs and dole them into the household trash, one or two a week,
until they are gone.


Don't be surprised to see a mandated "deposit" on CFLs.


That wouldn't surprise me in the least. In that event, you can be sure they
will be disposed of into the general waste stream here.

So you'll throw away the deposit in protest?

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article , CJT wrote:


Then I'd have to sell the travel trailer.


I have NEVER understood travel trailers. For less than the money people
sink into them, they could probably stay at the Four Seasons.


It's not a valid comparison on many levels.

Sleeping in my own bed and using my own toilet has distinct advantages for me.
Avoiding the all-night, elephant dance competition in the motel room above me
is a high priority, too.

Stepping-out of my door directly into a pristine wilderness, only to witness a
bull elk grazing a few hundred feet away just isn't the same as stepping out
the motel door, through the clouded "gauntlet" of those getting their first,
morning's nicotine fix, to the panorama of a parking lot and Hardees.

Nobody said RVing was cheap. My Silverado is proof enough. sigh

So toss a tent in the trunk.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
CJT wrote:

Jim Yanik wrote:

Jim Redelfs wrote in
:


In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:


my trust level these days is virtually zero.

For god's sake, why? Because "we" elected, twice, a President not
of
your choosing? We were attacked on 9/11? We've begun two wars?
What
else could it be?

I am as optimistic and happy, overall, as I have ever been. I was
even this way when Clinton frittered away 8 years in the oval
orifice.

However, if Hillary is elected, it's a fair bet that my positive
outlook on life will be somewhat mitigated.


The same goes for Obama.

Either one would be better than what we've been living with for the
past seven years.

Different certainly, but I'm not convinced of better by any means.

I'd be happy with someone who could speak our native language without a
script.

They're all scripted, they just vary in how well they remember and
present it. They are all professional liars.


I'm sorry, but I cannot accept a mental cripple in the White House.
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Drug...3985919&page=1

In article , "Pete C."
wrote:

I know I would be more than comfortable personally driving the semi with
those casks to Yucca, especially if I have clearance to drive over any
protesters who get in the way.

But, Occifer! My brakes failed. They really did! Hehehehehe!
--

JR

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
...

And yet, the state of NY rejected the evac plan for the Shoreham plant,
resulting in its eventual closing.
Yes, on, in my judgment, ill-informed decision-making to satisfy the
"anti's", not on a realistic assessment of risks of the plant itself in
comparison w/ other risks of far higher likelihood and consequences.


You've never driven in Long Island. Now, hush, until you have.

Sorry, already have multiple times so hush, yourself.

--

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Pity her poor husband, who was pushing her up the ladder
from behind. He could've been killed if she'd gone the other way.

Wotta way to go.

"Hey, Lifeguard! Toss me that cattle prod!" HA!
--

JR

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
....

... Money is the only thing that
makes people behave correctly. You know that.

No, I don't "know that". Didn't seem to be much of a motivating factor
for Mother Teresa.

--

In article , CJT wrote:

So you'll throw away the deposit in protest?

Absolutely. In any case, it would probably be "a wash" given the hassle and
real expense of recycling the things.

State-mandated deposits did little to clear the environment of discarded
aluminum. The price of the metal did.
--

JR

"dpb" wrote in message ...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
...

... Money is the only thing that makes people behave correctly. You know
that.

No, I don't "know that". Didn't seem to be much of a motivating factor
for Mother Teresa.

--


Exceptions are exceptions.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
...

... Money is the only thing that makes people behave correctly. You know
that.
No, I don't "know that". Didn't seem to be much of a motivating factor
for Mother Teresa.

--


Exceptions are exceptions.

All it takes is one result to negate the hypothesis.

--

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Somebody had to be paid to pick up the empties.

Haven't you seen orange-suited, "chain gangs" cleaning rights-of-way? I
wonder if that pays better than making license plates.

Money is the only thing that
makes people behave correctly. You know that.

Now I'm confused. A few rants ago you tried to convince us that
roots are the money of all evil.(sic)
--

JR

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

maybe we could see it as renting the containers.
If you get a keg of beer and a tap/hose for a party, do you
expect to pay nothing for the container if you don't return it?

Hey! You might be on to something...

I wonder if I could convince our local rag that I'm just RENTING their
newspaper. When I'm done reading it, they could come and take the newsprint
back and I'd only have to pay HALF the going subscription rate.

Naaaaah. Never fly.
--
sigh
JR

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

maybe we could see it as renting the containers.
If you get a keg of beer and a tap/hose for a party, do you
expect to pay nothing for the container if you don't return it?

Hey! You might be on to something...

I wonder if I could convince our local rag that I'm just RENTING their
newspaper. When I'm done reading it, they could come and take the
newsprint
back and I'd only have to pay HALF the going subscription rate.

Naaaaah. Never fly.
--
sigh
JR


We rent beer, right?

In article , CJT wrote:

So toss a tent in the trunk.

Uh, been there/done that.

We tented for years. We camped with three, little girls with two high chairs,
a potty chair and porta crib. We "paid our dues".

We finally got "off the ground" in 1987 and never looked back. At this stage
it would be a hard sell, indeed, to talk Mrs. MacWidow (my wife) back into a
tent and sleeping on the ground.
--

JR

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Direct from the Louvre to your lawn:

http://tinyurl.com/259yqz

Oh, just thanks A LOT! I never knew the URL to Fingerhut before. There goes
my life savings. Grrrrrrrrr...
--

JR

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Would the news group's designated bean counter tell us if this is the most
number of posts in a thread? How we doing?

Being the original poster, I do know it's the most reply-generating thing I
have *EVER* posted. Incredible.
--

JR

Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article , "Pete C."
wrote:

I know I would be more than comfortable personally driving the semi with
those casks to Yucca, especially if I have clearance to drive over any
protesters who get in the way.

But, Occifer! My brakes failed. They really did! Hehehehehe!
--

JR

Musta run in front of the truck while I was stirring my coffee, didn't
feel a thing, better stop by the truck wash before the goo dries...

Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article , CJT wrote:

So you'll throw away the deposit in protest?

Absolutely. In any case, it would probably be "a wash" given the hassle and
real expense of recycling the things.

State-mandated deposits did little to clear the environment of discarded
aluminum. The price of the metal did.

No, the deposits did it. The price of the metal didn't have anything to
do with it back then, AL only got expensive in this decade.