Hello all -

I've got an old 2-story house, built in 1911. The outside
has been unchanged for 30 years now, and it needs EVERYthing
done over: roof, windows, siding, all of it. It doesn't have
to be fancy, just functional. I plan to live here 2-3 more
years, and then sell for what I can get (I'm in a
neighborhood that is in a mild state of decline).

The roof has either 3 or 4 layers of shingles on it already.
That all has to come off - back down to the original
sheathing - and start over.

Lots of loose shingles on the sidewalls, so I will probably
have to have the existing siding (old wood shingles or
something else they were using back in 1911) stripped off,
too, back down to the sheathing, and built back up.

Not sure what to do about the windows. I don't care for
vinyl "replacement" windows, I'd prefer either full
replacements (real wood with aluminum cladding on the
outside), or something similar.

I've been checking out something the Marvin windows company
offers called "Tilt Pac". Not a replacement "insert", this
is a double-hung replacement kit that replaces your old
sashes with new wood/thermal glass, and has jamb liners that
once installed, allow the new sashes to tilt inward.

The end result is a "reconstructed" traditional window that
uses the old casings.

I was wondering if anyone out there has tried these, and can
offer opinions on them.

They aren't cheap. They cost about the same as Marvin's
"Integrity" double-hung FULL window assemblies. The sales
guy said there might be extra installation cost involved
with full windows due to trim removal/reinstallation on the
outside, however.

Some questions:

- When doing a complete exterior remodel, would it be best
to start "from the top down" (the roof first)? I'd kind of
like to take this in steps so I go broke a little at a time,
not all at once.

- With the roof done, should the windows be taken care of
_before_ the siding is removed/replaced? I'm thinking by
doing windows first (especially if it is going to involve
complete replacements that require trim work on the
outside), the siding job will go more smoothly as the last step.

Speaking of siding, I don't care for cheap vinyl "strip
siding". I've seen some newer-design products by Certainteed
and Nailite that use a heavier plastic (polypropylene) with
molded designs that mimic individually-installed shingles
(and do a very good job at it, too). Anyone tried this
stuff? Opinions?

Thanks,
- John

John Albert writes:

Hello all -

Speaking of siding, I don't care for cheap vinyl "strip siding". I've
seen some newer-design products by Certainteed and Nailite that use a
heavier plastic (polypropylene) with molded designs that mimic
individually-installed shingles (and do a very good job at it,
too). Anyone tried this stuff? Opinions?

Nailite:

http://mysite.verizon.net/despen/house.jpg

Great stuff.

John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

I've got an old 2-story house, built in 1911. The outside
has been unchanged for 30 years now, and it needs EVERYthing
done over: roof, windows, siding, all of it. It doesn't have
to be fancy, just functional. I plan to live here 2-3 more
years, and then sell for what I can get (I'm in a
neighborhood that is in a mild state of decline).

With the housing market and economy as it is, functional is the way to
go.


The roof has either 3 or 4 layers of shingles on it already.
That all has to come off - back down to the original
sheathing - and start over.

The original roof was probably wood shingles, so expect to go down to
the rafters and put on new sheathing. You may get lucky and find
tongue and groove sheathing already there, and not the open spaced
battens that shingles are usually applied on. A good roof is a vital
item in a house

Lots of loose shingles on the sidewalls, so I will probably
have to have the existing siding (old wood shingles or
something else they were using back in 1911) stripped off,
too, back down to the sheathing, and built back up.

Whoa, lad, didn't you just say you wanted functional, declining
neighborhood and all? Best bet for your 2-3 year residency is to hire
a good carpenter to do over the old shingle siding. A fresh coat of
stain and you've put that one behind you.

Not sure what to do about the windows. I don't care for
vinyl "replacement" windows, I'd prefer either full
replacements (real wood with aluminum cladding on the
outside), or something similar.

Unless the windows are falling apart, just repair and caulk, whatever.
Keep telling yourself, 'I won't be here in 3 years'.

I've been checking out something the Marvin windows company
offers called "Tilt Pac". Not a replacement "insert", this
is a double-hung replacement kit that replaces your old
sashes with new wood/thermal glass, and has jamb liners that
once installed, allow the new sashes to tilt inward.

The end result is a "reconstructed" traditional window that
uses the old casings.
I was wondering if anyone out there has tried these, and can
offer opinions on them.
They aren't cheap. They cost about the same as Marvin's
"Integrity" double-hung FULL window assemblies. The sales
guy said there might be extra installation cost involved
with full windows due to trim removal/reinstallation on the
outside, however.

Keep windows on the back burner. What is the condition of the
important utilities, plumbing, electrical, furnace, AC?

Some questions:

- When doing a complete exterior remodel, would it be best
to start "from the top down" (the roof first)? I'd kind of
like to take this in steps so I go broke a little at a time,
not all at once.

Yes, do the roof. It will cost many times more than you think it will
since logically you will need gutters and downspouts in most places.

- With the roof done, should the windows be taken care of
_before_ the siding is removed/replaced? I'm thinking by
doing windows first (especially if it is going to involve
complete replacements that require trim work on the
outside), the siding job will go more smoothly as the last step.

See comments above. Don't get in over your head, the roof alone may be
over $10K.

Speaking of siding, I don't care for cheap vinyl "strip
siding". I've seen some newer-design products by Certainteed
and Nailite that use a heavier plastic (polypropylene) with
molded designs that mimic individually-installed shingles
(and do a very good job at it, too). Anyone tried this
stuff?

Your preferences on building materials won't resonate at all with the
future owner. Concentrate on having a respectable curb appeal not
upscale features that don't blend in with the neighborhood. Good luck
on your project.

Joe

Joe wrote:
Whoa, lad, didn't you just say you wanted functional,
declining neighborhood and all? Best bet for your 2-3 year
residency is to hire a good carpenter to do over the old
shingle siding. A fresh coat of stain and you've put that
one behind you.

I think a good portion of it (west and south sides) is too
far gone to "do over". They're painted, can't be stained.
Don't even know if they're wood, were they using anything
else at the time, asbestos, perhaps? They have a deeply
stippled outer edge that doesn't look like wood. I could be
wrong.

I realize often vinyl siders just build over what's there, I
don't think that would work for me and I wouldn't want that,
anyway.

Unless the windows are falling apart, just repair and
caulk, whatever. Keep telling yourself, 'I won't be here in
3 years'.

One window did literally "fall apart on me" (had an air
conditioner in the window and hadn't checked it closely for
a few years, found it a few days ago). The bottom of the
sash rotted out. When I pulled the a/c out, the glass came
out as well. All I have in that opening today is a storm
window and half a double-hung. I definitely need to get that
taken care of!

Keep windows on the back burner. What is the condition of
the important utilities, plumbing, electrical, furnace, AC?

Plumbing has had some upgrades, but my upstairs bathroom tub
tiling is falling apart (old plaster wall rotting out behind
the tiles, which were done over in the 50's or 60's, it
looks like). Wall needs to be re-done with the green
sheetrock and I'll put in a liner of some sort (no more
tile!). Furnace is 20 years old but ok. Electrical? Knob and
tube, 60 amps, with old-style fuses. No way I can get that
replaced without spending a fortune. I figured I'd at least
have the service upgraded to 100 amps if I do the siding over.

Yes, do the roof. It will cost many times more than you
think it will since logically you will need gutters and
downspouts in most places.

Gutters on one side are falling off. Downspouts seem ok.The
trim needs cleaning up. By the way, I can't check up in the
attic to see if I have tongue & groove, as there is
insulation packed on the ceiling and even the end walls.
Perhaps I can pull a little down when I have a roof guy look
at it.

See comments above. Don't get in over your head, the roof
alone may be over $10K.

Yup. I figured by the time I did everything needed to make
the place saleable, I'd be spending upwards of $30,000. I
can afford to do it financially, but of course wish I didn't
have to.

I'm _hoping_ to sell and move upon retirement. Then again, I
could be stuck here for reasons whatever. That's why I want
to do the job right, even if I have to sell for a little
under market value to get it off my hands.

I expect that any buyer will move immediately to convert the
house to 2-family, or even add onto the back and transform
it into an "immigrant hotel", doubling or tripling it
lengthwise. Seems to have been done to more than a few
existing one or two family houses in this area (including
the one right next to me, ugh).

Thanks for the comments,
- John

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:07:40 -0500, John Albert
wrote:
snip

I've been checking out something the Marvin windows company
offers called "Tilt Pac". Not a replacement "insert", this
is a double-hung replacement kit that replaces your old
sashes with new wood/thermal glass, and has jamb liners that
once installed, allow the new sashes to tilt inward.

The end result is a "reconstructed" traditional window that
uses the old casings.

I was wondering if anyone out there has tried these, and can
offer opinions on them.

They aren't cheap. They cost about the same as Marvin's
"Integrity" double-hung FULL window assemblies. The sales
guy said there might be extra installation cost involved
with full windows due to trim removal/reinstallation on the
outside, however.

I haven't used Marvin's, but have used similar kits by another
manufacturer whose name escapes me at the moment.

They work as advertised, and after I got the hang of it, took maybe 30
minutes per window to install. The major effort was staining and
varnishing them (mine were wood inside, AL clad outside). They operate
nicely and seal very well.

As you say, they cost as much as good quality full windows. IMO, the
only reason to use them is avoid the siding work and inside trim work
that comes from doing full replacements, and wanting to avoid the kind
of replacements that slip inside the old frames. Since you are redoing
siding anyway, that reason evaporates. If you really want to do the
windows, go with full new. Once the old siding is off, they will be
easy to do. If you are careful, and the old windows are standard
sizes, you can reuse the inside trim.

HTH,

Paul F.

On Dec 12, 5:07 pm, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

I've got an old 2-story house, built in 1911. The outside
has been unchanged for 30 years now, and it needs EVERYthing
done over: roof, windows, siding, all of it. It doesn't have
to be fancy, just functional. I plan to live here 2-3 more
years, and then sell for what I can get (I'm in a
neighborhood that is in a mild state of decline).

The roof has either 3 or 4 layers of shingles on it already.
That all has to come off - back down to the original
sheathing - and start over.

Lots of loose shingles on the sidewalls, so I will probably
have to have the existing siding (old wood shingles or
something else they were using back in 1911) stripped off,
too, back down to the sheathing, and built back up.

Not sure what to do about the windows. I don't care for
vinyl "replacement" windows, I'd prefer either full
replacements (real wood with aluminum cladding on the
outside), or something similar.

I've been checking out something the Marvin windows company
offers called "Tilt Pac". Not a replacement "insert", this
is a double-hung replacement kit that replaces your old
sashes with new wood/thermal glass, and has jamb liners that
once installed, allow the new sashes to tilt inward.

The end result is a "reconstructed" traditional window that
uses the old casings.

I was wondering if anyone out there has tried these, and can
offer opinions on them.

They aren't cheap. They cost about the same as Marvin's
"Integrity" double-hung FULL window assemblies. The sales
guy said there might be extra installation cost involved
with full windows due to trim removal/reinstallation on the
outside, however.

Some questions:

- When doing a complete exterior remodel, would it be best
to start "from the top down" (the roof first)? I'd kind of
like to take this in steps so I go broke a little at a time,
not all at once.

- With the roof done, should the windows be taken care of
_before_ the siding is removed/replaced? I'm thinking by
doing windows first (especially if it is going to involve
complete replacements that require trim work on the
outside), the siding job will go more smoothly as the last step.

Speaking of siding, I don't care for cheap vinyl "strip
siding". I've seen some newer-design products by Certainteed
and Nailite that use a heavier plastic (polypropylene) with
molded designs that mimic individually-installed shingles
(and do a very good job at it, too). Anyone tried this
stuff? Opinions?

Thanks,
- John

Three words to describe the advantage of full replacements over the
inserts that you are looking at: Lead-based paint.

My house had old asphalt siding, two layers of roofing, box gutters that
leaked and drained the way, old windows. If it had to be done over,
remember to insulate the exterior walls. Getting rid of the box gutters was
a good decision because the water can be put into the street. Large
commercial grade seamless gutters give a balance in place of box gutters.
Add insulation, but knob and tube creates a problem. Good luck. Good
market.

"John Albert" wrote in message
...
Hello all -

I've got an old 2-story house, built in 1911. The outside
has been unchanged for 30 years now, and it needs EVERYthing
done over: roof, windows, siding, all of it. It doesn't have
to be fancy, just functional. I plan to live here 2-3 more
years, and then sell for what I can get (I'm in a
neighborhood that is in a mild state of decline).

The roof has either 3 or 4 layers of shingles on it already.
That all has to come off - back down to the original
sheathing - and start over.

Lots of loose shingles on the sidewalls, so I will probably
have to have the existing siding (old wood shingles or
something else they were using back in 1911) stripped off,
too, back down to the sheathing, and built back up.

Not sure what to do about the windows. I don't care for
vinyl "replacement" windows, I'd prefer either full
replacements (real wood with aluminum cladding on the
outside), or something similar.

I've been checking out something the Marvin windows company
offers called "Tilt Pac". Not a replacement "insert", this
is a double-hung replacement kit that replaces your old
sashes with new wood/thermal glass, and has jamb liners that
once installed, allow the new sashes to tilt inward.

The end result is a "reconstructed" traditional window that
uses the old casings.

I was wondering if anyone out there has tried these, and can
offer opinions on them.

They aren't cheap. They cost about the same as Marvin's
"Integrity" double-hung FULL window assemblies. The sales
guy said there might be extra installation cost involved
with full windows due to trim removal/reinstallation on the
outside, however.

Some questions:

- When doing a complete exterior remodel, would it be best
to start "from the top down" (the roof first)? I'd kind of
like to take this in steps so I go broke a little at a time,
not all at once.

- With the roof done, should the windows be taken care of
_before_ the siding is removed/replaced? I'm thinking by
doing windows first (especially if it is going to involve
complete replacements that require trim work on the
outside), the siding job will go more smoothly as the last step.

Speaking of siding, I don't care for cheap vinyl "strip
siding". I've seen some newer-design products by Certainteed
and Nailite that use a heavier plastic (polypropylene) with
molded designs that mimic individually-installed shingles
(and do a very good job at it, too). Anyone tried this
stuff? Opinions?

Thanks,
- John