I come again to this group for some advice. I have a 50's ranch
that's my wife and I have been slowly modernizing room by room. Now
all we have left is the biggie the kitchen. So far we've painted the
awful orange-y wooden cabs white and replaced the hardware to polished
nickel. Now for the walls..... All around the kitchen at around 1/3
height is a yellow ceramic tile with green accents. What I'd like to
do is replace/cover this up with white wainscoting and a chair rail.
So...

1.) The easiest would be if I can simply leave the tile up and simply
cover it (guess I'd have to use and adhesive?). All the tile is in
excellent shape (no cracks or lose tiles). Is this possible? Or
would doing it this way be a big hack?

2.) If removing the tile is the only way to go how big a job is this?
This tile has likely been up since the 50's. Could we pull it all
without having to redo all the wall board behind it (remembering it
will simply be covered with wainscoting).

3.) For behind the stove and refrigerator there's floor to ceiling
tile, do they make wainscoting in say a 6 foot height?

Thank for any advice/suggestions!!!

grodenhiATgmailDOTcom wrote:
....
...the walls..... All around the kitchen at around 1/3
height is a yellow ceramic tile with green accents. What I'd like to
do is replace/cover this up with white wainscoting and a chair rail.
So...

1.) The easiest would be if I can simply leave the tile up and simply
cover it (guess I'd have to use and adhesive?). All the tile is in
excellent shape (no cracks or lose tiles). Is this possible? Or
would doing it this way be a big hack?

Yes. and Yes.

2.) If removing the tile is the only way to go how big a job is this?
This tile has likely been up since the 50's. Could we pull it all
without having to redo all the wall board behind it (remembering it
will simply be covered with wainscoting).

It's just demolition. What shape the wall is in when you're done will
be dependent on how you attack it and how well the tile is attached.
Me, I'd probably just take the whole section of wall board down, tile
and all and replace the wallboard if the tile doesn't come easily. It
wouldn't even need to be taped, it's only there for the thickness and is
relatively inexpensive.

3.) For behind the stove and refrigerator there's floor to ceiling
tile, do they make wainscoting in say a 6 foot height?

Depends on what you're using, but most is simply a moulding available in
length which is cut onsite to fit. There are some kits or other
prepackaged thingies I've seen in the box stores, but that's only a
pittance of what would be available to choose from...

--

Thats a fun one.

The problem wth wainscotting (I presume you mean solid panels here, not the
ersatz moilding applied to the wall then painted) is it's heavy. That means
while you can do what you want, it may be so heavy it separates on you
later. You may be able to use special nails though that can go through tile
to secure it? Since you do not care if the tile cracks, this seems like a
possible option. I'd have to ask at a home store just what tye would be
right.


"grodenhiATgmailDOTcom" wrote in message
oups.com...
I come again to this group for some advice. I have a 50's ranch
that's my wife and I have been slowly modernizing room by room. Now
all we have left is the biggie the kitchen. So far we've painted the
awful orange-y wooden cabs white and replaced the hardware to polished
nickel. Now for the walls..... All around the kitchen at around 1/3
height is a yellow ceramic tile with green accents. What I'd like to
do is replace/cover this up with white wainscoting and a chair rail.
So...

1.) The easiest would be if I can simply leave the tile up and simply
cover it (guess I'd have to use and adhesive?). All the tile is in
excellent shape (no cracks or lose tiles). Is this possible? Or
would doing it this way be a big hack?

2.) If removing the tile is the only way to go how big a job is this?
This tile has likely been up since the 50's. Could we pull it all
without having to redo all the wall board behind it (remembering it
will simply be covered with wainscoting).

Theres a possible hidden 'trap' here. The house is 50's. You may not have
a 'regular wall' behind that tile. If it was an even earlier house, you
might find removal of the tile would require removal of the wall too. A
much larger job than you wan obviously and you cant really till until you
start destruction.

I'd go this route: Lose about an inch maybe a little more wall, by building
a thin frame of wood slat material, anchored at bottom to the floor and
going just above the tile then anchoring there as well as some through the
tile with those special 'screws' above. Since you dont want to loose too
much of your space, but need it strong enough to hold the weight long term
of the wainscotting, have the slats no more than 12 inches apart. Achor
this heavily to the wall and floor, and use treated lumber. The lumber is
sold in that type for exterior gardening uses. This will be very solid and
you will be able to hadle it if some of the tiles losen later and you've
pretty much added a very stable structure to it. Simpler than possibly
replacing the wall.


3.) For behind the stove and refrigerator there's floor to ceiling
tile, do they make wainscoting in say a 6 foot height?

Not that I know of, but then, I only actually 'do' the simple type. I take
a pretty door molding or 'ceiling rail' and make a char rail nailed right
the the drywall then using a lighter weight molding, make 'boxes' which are
nailed below it. Wood putty for the corners when the cuts arent quite
meeting (hard to get them exact). Paint below in a darker color than the
paint above. I often wallaper inside the boxes.

Carol

"grodenhiATgmailDOTcom" wrote in message
oups.com...
I come again to this group for some advice. I have a 50's ranch
that's my wife and I have been slowly modernizing room by room.

1.) The easiest would be if I can simply leave the tile up and simply
cover it (guess I'd have to use and adhesive?). All the tile is in
excellent shape (no cracks or lose tiles). Is this possible? Or
would doing it this way be a big hack?

Polyurethane construction adhesive will hold it in place so yes, it can be
done.

The second part of your question is more difficult to answer. Do you really
like the tile? Will the tile still look good after you change other parts
of the kitchen? I'd buy a section of the wainscoting and tape it in place
to see how it looks. Done right, it may look very nice, but done wrong or
the wrong combination, it can look like a hack job.


2.) If removing the tile is the only way to go how big a job is this?
This tile has likely been up since the 50's. Could we pull it all
without having to redo all the wall board behind it (remembering it
will simply be covered with wainscoting).

Back then, most tile jobs were what they call "mud jobs" and no, it will not
come off cleanly. Figure on taking it all out and putting up new wallboard.

According to grodenhiATgmailDOTcom :

1.) The easiest would be if I can simply leave the tile up and simply
cover it (guess I'd have to use and adhesive?). All the tile is in
excellent shape (no cracks or lose tiles). Is this possible? Or
would doing it this way be a big hack?

2.) If removing the tile is the only way to go how big a job is this?
This tile has likely been up since the 50's. Could we pull it all
without having to redo all the wall board behind it (remembering it
will simply be covered with wainscoting).

3.) For behind the stove and refrigerator there's floor to ceiling
tile, do they make wainscoting in say a 6 foot height?

It sounds as if you want to use T&G wainscotting, rather than panels.

T&G wainscotting comes in a variety of forms. Some precut to
"standard" lengths (which I think is 34" and 40"), others as long
pieces you cut to length. The stuff I've installed came in bundles
(from HD) as 8' pieces. I prepainted, then cut to the desired length
(32" in my case, so I could get three pieces per 8' length - had
6" of room due to the baseboard - the wainscotting is actually
closer to 35" high installed).

I'd not install over the ceramic.

Some craftsmen prefer to install wainscotting (not just panel type)
over plywood - there are FHB articles on this.

How wavy the wall is a consideration in whether you use plywood.

Once you rip off the drywall, installing 1/2" plywood is easy.

In the installation I've done from scratch, I installed over drywall.
I ran a PL200 bead on the back of the T&G then airnailed top and bottom
(where it'd be hidden by trim). It ain't going anywhere.

Presuming the backing is drywall - to remove it, cut a horizontal line
where you wish to preserve the upper section, smash holes, and rip
the drywall off with a prybar. It's messy, but not difficult. Watch
Holmes on Homes for a demonstration ;-)
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On Oct 16, 9:01 am, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
According to grodenhiATgmailDOTcom :

1.) The easiest would be if I can simply leave the tile up and simply
cover it (guess I'd have to use and adhesive?). All the tile is in
excellent shape (no cracks or lose tiles). Is this possible? Or
would doing it this way be a big hack?
2.) If removing the tile is the only way to go how big a job is this?
This tile has likely been up since the 50's. Could we pull it all
without having to redo all the wall board behind it (remembering it
will simply be covered with wainscoting).

3.) For behind the stove and refrigerator there's floor to ceiling
tile, do they make wainscoting in say a 6 foot height?

It sounds as if you want to use T&G wainscotting, rather than panels.

T&G wainscotting comes in a variety of forms. Some precut to
"standard" lengths (which I think is 34" and 40"), others as long
pieces you cut to length. The stuff I've installed came in bundles
(from HD) as 8' pieces. I prepainted, then cut to the desired length
(32" in my case, so I could get three pieces per 8' length - had
6" of room due to the baseboard - the wainscotting is actually
closer to 35" high installed).

I'd not install over the ceramic.

Some craftsmen prefer to install wainscotting (not just panel type)
over plywood - there are FHB articles on this.

How wavy the wall is a consideration in whether you use plywood.

Once you rip off the drywall, installing 1/2" plywood is easy.

In the installation I've done from scratch, I installed over drywall.
I ran a PL200 bead on the back of the T&G then airnailed top and bottom
(where it'd be hidden by trim). It ain't going anywhere.

Presuming the backing is drywall - to remove it, cut a horizontal line
where you wish to preserve the upper section, smash holes, and rip
the drywall off with a prybar. It's messy, but not difficult. Watch
Holmes on Homes for a demonstration ;-)
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

The wainscoting I was planning on installing is the bead board type
(at Lowes they sell 3/16" white beadboard). So it looks like my best
bet is to remove the tiles and either replace the drywall (if damaged)
or nail this over where tile used to be. I really hope to not have to
replace the wall board as the walls I want to do have baseboard
heating and I don't want to have to remove that to. I was really
hoping for something along the lines of a weekend project.

grodenhiATgmailDOTcom wrote:
On Oct 16, 9:01 am, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
According to grodenhiATgmailDOTcom :

1.) The easiest would be if I can simply leave the tile up and simply
cover it (guess I'd have to use and adhesive?). All the tile is in
excellent shape (no cracks or lose tiles). Is this possible? Or
would doing it this way be a big hack?
2.) If removing the tile is the only way to go how big a job is this?
This tile has likely been up since the 50's. Could we pull it all
without having to redo all the wall board behind it (remembering it
will simply be covered with wainscoting).
3.) For behind the stove and refrigerator there's floor to ceiling
tile, do they make wainscoting in say a 6 foot height?
It sounds as if you want to use T&G wainscotting, rather than panels.

T&G wainscotting comes in a variety of forms. Some precut to
"standard" lengths (which I think is 34" and 40"), others as long
pieces you cut to length. The stuff I've installed came in bundles
(from HD) as 8' pieces. I prepainted, then cut to the desired length
(32" in my case, so I could get three pieces per 8' length - had
6" of room due to the baseboard - the wainscotting is actually
closer to 35" high installed).

I'd not install over the ceramic.

Some craftsmen prefer to install wainscotting (not just panel type)
over plywood - there are FHB articles on this.

How wavy the wall is a consideration in whether you use plywood.

Once you rip off the drywall, installing 1/2" plywood is easy.

In the installation I've done from scratch, I installed over drywall.
I ran a PL200 bead on the back of the T&G then airnailed top and bottom
(where it'd be hidden by trim). It ain't going anywhere.

Presuming the backing is drywall - to remove it, cut a horizontal line
where you wish to preserve the upper section, smash holes, and rip
the drywall off with a prybar. It's messy, but not difficult. Watch
Holmes on Homes for a demonstration ;-)
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

The wainscoting I was planning on installing is the bead board type
(at Lowes they sell 3/16" white beadboard). So it looks like my best
bet is to remove the tiles and either replace the drywall (if damaged)
or nail this over where tile used to be. I really hope to not have to
replace the wall board as the walls I want to do have baseboard
heating and I don't want to have to remove that to. I was really
hoping for something along the lines of a weekend project.

Could be. A baseboard heater ain't that much -- turn off power,
disconnect a couple of connections, remove the few screws holding it in
place and set it aside. Remove wallboard/tile and cleanup should be a
pretty easy first day, likely being able to hang new wallboard as well
I'd think unless it's a much larger area than I'm envisioning.

Next day fairly leisurely installation of the wainscot, put back the
heaters and done...

--

On Oct 16, 12:20 pm, grodenhiATgmailDOTcom wrote:

The wainscoting I was planning on installing is the bead board type
(at Lowes they sell 3/16" white beadboard). So it looks like my best
bet is to remove the tiles and either replace the drywall (if damaged)
or nail this over where tile used to be. I really hope to not have to
replace the wall board as the walls I want to do have baseboard
heating and I don't want to have to remove that to. I was really
hoping for something along the lines of a weekend project.

You can install beadboard over tile. If you're looking for down and
dirty, big bang for your time buck and the like, then just glue it up
and trim out the edges. Purists (including me) usually will tell you
to remove the old material, but if it's just a cosmetic thing, just
cover it. My first choice in adhesive would be a one-part
polyurethane or construction adhesive. The tile should be cleaned and
degreased before you do any gluing. Lay the glue beads down on the
grout lines as it will stick better to the grout than to the tile.
Have all of your pieces lined up and rig up something to apply
pressure to the beadboard strips while the glue sets up. You could
drill and nail through the grout lines, but that's more trouble than
it's worth. You could also use a contact cement on the tile and
beadboard along with the polyurethane. The contact cement might be
enough for itself, but never having contact cemented anything to tile,
I can't vouch for it. The contact cement would hold the beadboard in
place while the polyurethane set up - you wouldn't need to nail or
brace it. The contact cement would require you to install each piece,
except the first, with a rolling motion as you engage the T&G. The
contact cement won't let the board slide so it's first shot right or
you're pulling the piece off and possibly damaging it.

The baseboard also does not have to come out. You can loosen it and
slide the boards down behind it - there should be enough slack in the
wiring. Even downer and dirtier would be to have the beadboard sit on
top of the radiator convector and either do a good job of lining up
the ends and leaving it alone, caulking the gap, or using a piece of
molding to cover the gap. Be aware than the heat from the convector
will do interesting things to the beadboard. The heat and dryness
will create a large amount of seasonal change in dimensions. The T&G
joints will open up more than usual.

R

According to grodenhiATgmailDOTcom :

The wainscoting I was planning on installing is the bead board type
(at Lowes they sell 3/16" white beadboard).

Is this tongue-and-groove (often around 3 1/4" wide) or sheet material
(often pressboard of some sort)?

My stuff was 3 1/4" x 3/16 x 8'.

So it looks like my best
bet is to remove the tiles and either replace the drywall (if damaged)
or nail this over where tile used to be. I really hope to not have to
replace the wall board as the walls I want to do have baseboard
heating and I don't want to have to remove that to. I was really
hoping for something along the lines of a weekend project.

You're exceedingly unlikely to get the tile off the drywall without
considerable damage. It'll take vastly longer if you try to save
the drywall. You can probably rip the drywall/tile off in less than
an hour, and it won't take much longer than that to put up new
drywall, because behind the wainscotting you don't have to "finish mud"
it. (you still should tape and first pass the joints).

With a circular saw, plywood would take only a bit longer to install,
and you don't have to wait for the mud to dry.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to dpb :

Could be. A baseboard heater ain't that much -- turn off power,
disconnect a couple of connections, remove the few screws holding it in
place and set it aside. Remove wallboard/tile and cleanup should be a
pretty easy first day, likely being able to hang new wallboard as well
I'd think unless it's a much larger area than I'm envisioning.

Should have commented on that. When renovating a room, I take
the time to repaint the baseboard heaters - especially if they're
splattered with paint, as many of them are.

I completely disassemble ours, wipe clean, spray with high-temp
metal paint, and reassemble. Good as new. About 15 minutes of
work per unit, plus let it sit somewhere warm for half a day to
dry before reassembly.

Most baseboard heaters are quite easy to disassemble. You want
to get the heater core and thermostat unit out. Stuff a plastic
shopping bag in the "electrical boxes" to shield the inside (wire
ends, screw holes, box clamps), and spray.

[The stuff we use is dry to the touch in 10 minutes.]
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to grodenhiATgmailDOTcom :

The wainscoting I was planning on installing is the bead board type
(at Lowes they sell 3/16" white beadboard).

Is this tongue-and-groove (often around 3 1/4" wide) or sheet material
(often pressboard of some sort)?

My stuff was 3 1/4" x 3/16 x 8'.

So it looks like my best
bet is to remove the tiles and either replace the drywall (if damaged)
or nail this over where tile used to be. I really hope to not have to
replace the wall board as the walls I want to do have baseboard
heating and I don't want to have to remove that to. I was really
hoping for something along the lines of a weekend project.

You're exceedingly unlikely to get the tile off the drywall without
considerable damage. It'll take vastly longer if you try to save
the drywall. You can probably rip the drywall/tile off in less than
an hour, and it won't take much longer than that to put up new
drywall, because behind the wainscotting you don't have to "finish mud"
it. (you still should tape and first pass the joints).

I really don't see any need for even the first tape job, meself...
I'd probably do it if it were mine, but I really don't see a problem
without.

What I would note that I forgot to mention is that the other reason to
take the sheetrock down is that unless you use the plywood (or Rico's
imo hack), you need a nailer between the joists. Top and bottom is
adequate, but I prefer a mid-height one as well...can be 1x or 2x, your
choice.

--

According to dpb :
Chris Lewis wrote:

You're exceedingly unlikely to get the tile off the drywall without
considerable damage. It'll take vastly longer if you try to save
the drywall. You can probably rip the drywall/tile off in less than
an hour, and it won't take much longer than that to put up new
drywall, because behind the wainscotting you don't have to "finish mud"
it. (you still should tape and first pass the joints).

I really don't see any need for even the first tape job, meself...
I'd probably do it if it were mine, but I really don't see a problem
without.

I'm thinking air infiltration - depending on what's behind it.

What I would note that I forgot to mention is that the other reason to
take the sheetrock down is that unless you use the plywood (or Rico's
imo hack), you need a nailer between the joists. Top and bottom is
adequate, but I prefer a mid-height one as well...can be 1x or 2x, your
choice.

That's what the PL200 is for. What I've also done is shoot two
brads at an opposing angle if I think it might move before the PL200
sets. So, it becomes: quick zig-zag of PL200, put plank in place,
shoot brad thru the floor plate, and shoot nail (occasionally two
criss-cross brads) at the top where the cap molding will cover it.

Even more rarely, I'll shoot two criss-cross brads mid-height.

It helps to have straight walls of course. If there's significant
bowing, then it becomes rather more important to have solid backing.

A guy who works here, and previously spent a few years installing
this stuff professionally, swore by using a 1/4" crown stapler
shooting 1" staples. The legs spread enough to hold things in
place.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to dpb :
Chris Lewis wrote:

You're exceedingly unlikely to get the tile off the drywall without
considerable damage. It'll take vastly longer if you try to save
the drywall. You can probably rip the drywall/tile off in less than
an hour, and it won't take much longer than that to put up new
drywall, because behind the wainscotting you don't have to "finish mud"
it. (you still should tape and first pass the joints).

I really don't see any need for even the first tape job, meself...
I'd probably do it if it were mine, but I really don't see a problem
without.

I'm thinking air infiltration - depending on what's behind it.

What I would note that I forgot to mention is that the other reason to
take the sheetrock down is that unless you use the plywood (or Rico's
imo hack), you need a nailer between the joists. Top and bottom is
adequate, but I prefer a mid-height one as well...can be 1x or 2x, your
choice.

That's what the PL200 is for. What I've also done is shoot two
brads at an opposing angle if I think it might move before the PL200
sets. So, it becomes: quick zig-zag of PL200, put plank in place,
shoot brad thru the floor plate, and shoot nail (occasionally two
criss-cross brads) at the top where the cap molding will cover it.

Even more rarely, I'll shoot two criss-cross brads mid-height.

It helps to have straight walls of course. If there's significant
bowing, then it becomes rather more important to have solid backing.

A guy who works here, and previously spent a few years installing
this stuff professionally, swore by using a 1/4" crown stapler
shooting 1" staples. The legs spread enough to hold things in
place.

Maybe until he leaves...

I wouldn't trust it myself and the staples are an abomination in
themselves imo. If I were making my living that way, however, I'm sure
my choice of techniques would change to accommodate...

--

On Oct 16, 5:04 pm, dpb wrote:
Chris Lewis wrote:
According to dpb :
Chris Lewis wrote:

You're exceedingly unlikely to get the tile off the drywall without
considerable damage. It'll take vastly longer if you try to save
the drywall. You can probably rip the drywall/tile off in less than
an hour, and it won't take much longer than that to put up new
drywall, because behind the wainscotting you don't have to "finish mud"
it. (you still should tape and first pass the joints).

I really don't see any need for even the first tape job, meself...
I'd probably do it if it were mine, but I really don't see a problem
without.

I'm thinking air infiltration - depending on what's behind it.

What I would note that I forgot to mention is that the other reason to
take the sheetrock down is that unless you use the plywood (or Rico's
imo hack), you need a nailer between the joists. Top and bottom is
adequate, but I prefer a mid-height one as well...can be 1x or 2x, your
choice.

That's what the PL200 is for. What I've also done is shoot two
brads at an opposing angle if I think it might move before the PL200
sets. So, it becomes: quick zig-zag of PL200, put plank in place,
shoot brad thru the floor plate, and shoot nail (occasionally two
criss-cross brads) at the top where the cap molding will cover it.

Even more rarely, I'll shoot two criss-cross brads mid-height.

It helps to have straight walls of course. If there's significant
bowing, then it becomes rather more important to have solid backing.

A guy who works here, and previously spent a few years installing
this stuff professionally, swore by using a 1/4" crown stapler
shooting 1" staples. The legs spread enough to hold things in
place.

Maybe until he leaves...

I wouldn't trust it myself and the staples are an abomination in
themselves imo. If I were making my living that way, however, I'm sure
my choice of techniques would change to accommodate...

e --

I think I'll explain a little better (I should have explained better
from the get go). The walls are two 8 foot lengths of interior
walls. Both walls have baseboard forced hot water baseboards. These
baseboard appear to be originals (ie old). I'm hoping to replace/
cover yellow and green ceramic tile 1/3 up the wall with sheets of
beadboard topped with a chair rail. I'm willing to put a few hundred
dollars into this project (either doing it myself and only buying
materials) or paying a hanyman if less than say 3 or 4 hundred bucks
(which I doubt). Removing the wall board (down to studs) would
probably require removing the baseboards, that may start getting above
my head. We're only going to be in the house another year or two
(starter home) and with the real estate market how it is we don't want
to put major money into it, just freshen up the look.

To add another question to this thread, this same tile is used as a
backsplash. We'd like to keep tile as a backsplash now. Thought on
repainting the pale yellow/green tile (backsplash) a white color?
I've Google'd and gotten lots of mixed results. Some claim is works
great and looks good, others warn against it. Appears that primer is
key. Any experiences. I really appreciate all the help/suggestions
I've gotten, wish I could recontribute knowledge here, but my
expertise is computers.

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message

Most baseboard heaters are quite easy to disassemble. You want
to get the heater core and thermostat unit out. Stuff a plastic
shopping bag in the "electrical boxes" to shield the inside (wire
ends, screw holes, box clamps), and spray.

But with some baseboard heaters, water leaks out when you remove the core.

According to grodenhiATgmailDOTcom :
I think I'll explain a little better (I should have explained better
from the get go). The walls are two 8 foot lengths of interior
walls. Both walls have baseboard forced hot water baseboards. These
baseboard appear to be originals (ie old). I'm hoping to replace/
cover yellow and green ceramic tile 1/3 up the wall with sheets of
beadboard topped with a chair rail. I'm willing to put a few hundred
dollars into this project (either doing it myself and only buying
materials) or paying a hanyman if less than say 3 or 4 hundred bucks
(which I doubt). Removing the wall board (down to studs) would
probably require removing the baseboards, that may start getting above
my head. We're only going to be in the house another year or two
(starter home) and with the real estate market how it is we don't want
to put major money into it, just freshen up the look.

Frankly, even if you don't pull the drywall, pulling off the baseboard
heaters and repainting them (if they look old) is going to have a pretty
high return, given how low the "investment" on doing that is. For
less than $10 and an hour of your time each, they'll look new. Baseboards
are easy to dis/remount. If you can use a screwdriver, can use a pencil
and paper to record the wiring diagram (if necessary), and can twist
a wirenut, that's all you need.

Once you've decided to take off the tile, tearing off the drywall
(including removing/reinstalling the baseboards) will speed the
job up, not slow it down. Especially if you skip all the taping
steps, or use plywood.

On a similar vein, I've spent approximately 3 weeks over the past year
at my sister-in-law's (8 hours drive from here) _redoing_ the hack job
the previous "home handyman" did - his standard of workmanship was
appalling[+]. It probably cost him at least $10K in potential return.
_Not_ including the additional thousands in escrow to pay for repairs.
He probably put in about $5K of materials, and the end result is that
he _decreased_ the selling price of the home over what it would have
been without the "improvements".

It pays to pay attention to the little stuff. Many home owners are
quite good at recognizing hack jobs.

[+] Eg: thinking that siliconing a drop-in fiberglass tub to the wall
will take the place of having the rim on real framing supports - the
only support it had was two 1"x1" strips in one corner. Eg: thinking
that an 8' piece of baseboard trim on a 10' long wall constitutes "finished".
Eg: not realizing that the two inch gap in the wainscotting at corners
and window trim doesn't look very good. Eg: deliberately butchering _original_
Victorian corner blocks with what looks like a dull splitting axe. Or,
maybe he put them half-way into a vice and split it by whacking with
a hammer.

Eg: thinking that a building inspector will pass a code-required
structural support which consisted of a hunk of 6x6 sitting on a
thoroughly rotten piece of firewood embedded in the dirt, meanwhile
managing to completely ignore the existing perfectly convenient masonry
pillar less than 6" away. And wasting a perfectly good 10' 2x12, where
10' of 2x6 would have done. [The building inspector didn't pass it
until I redid it.]

Not to mention the leaky plumbing jobs, shutoff valves sealed behind
walls, miswired (and actively arcing) electrical work etc. Hell, the
guy didn't even know how to use lag anchors properly - the lag screw
is supposed to go _into_ the anchor, not just push it farther into
the ridiculously overlong hole in the foundation. That took skill -
my estimate is that it would have taken him an extra hour to drill the
hole that much further in the stone foundation featuring granite and
quartzite boulders.

Virtually all noted by the home inspector - tho, I'm sure he didn't
realize how really stupid the problems turned out to be.

Needless to say, this "handyman" was actually a pro - tried to make a living
doing it. It is thought that the reason why he left town so fast is because
the townees found out through bitter experience how "handy" he really was.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to dpb :
Chris Lewis wrote:

A guy who works here, and previously spent a few years installing
this stuff professionally, swore by using a 1/4" crown stapler
shooting 1" staples. The legs spread enough to hold things in
place.

Maybe until he leaves...

He was the one who suggested construction adhesive - the staples are only
to keep the stuff in position for a few hours.

I wouldn't trust it myself and the staples are an abomination in
themselves imo. If I were making my living that way, however, I'm sure
my choice of techniques would change to accommodate...

Probably, I know mine would ;-)

I'm not fond of staples either - I can't _stand_ furniture made with them -
they always fall apart if they're the only fastening system used.
But there are applications where they're probably the best option. This
(wainscotting over drywall with glue) is one of them. I didn't use staples
myself, because I didn't want to bother with two tools at the time, and staples
are the wrong thing to use for fastening trim (too short, too much hole to hide).
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Edwin Pawlowski :

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message

Most baseboard heaters are quite easy to disassemble. You want
to get the heater core and thermostat unit out. Stuff a plastic
shopping bag in the "electrical boxes" to shield the inside (wire
ends, screw holes, box clamps), and spray.

But with some baseboard heaters, water leaks out when you remove the core.

Oh, yup. I forgot about _those_ ;-) But it sounded as if the OP was
refering to electrical baseboards. If your electrical ones leak water,
you have a _serious_ problem ;-)
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Chris Lewis :
According to grodenhiATgmailDOTcom :
I think I'll explain a little better (I should have explained better
from the get go). The walls are two 8 foot lengths of interior
walls. Both walls have baseboard forced hot water baseboards. These
baseboard appear to be originals (ie old). I'm hoping to replace/
cover yellow and green ceramic tile 1/3 up the wall with sheets of
beadboard topped with a chair rail. I'm willing to put a few hundred
dollars into this project (either doing it myself and only buying
materials) or paying a hanyman if less than say 3 or 4 hundred bucks
(which I doubt). Removing the wall board (down to studs) would
probably require removing the baseboards, that may start getting above
my head. We're only going to be in the house another year or two
(starter home) and with the real estate market how it is we don't want
to put major money into it, just freshen up the look.

Frankly, even if you don't pull the drywall, pulling off the baseboard
heaters and repainting them (if they look old) is going to have a pretty
high return, given how low the "investment" on doing that is.

Oops, never mind that part. Didn't notice until now they were hot water
baseboards.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On Oct 17, 9:46 am, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
According to dpb :

Chris Lewis wrote:
A guy who works here, and previously spent a few years installing
this stuff professionally, swore by using a 1/4" crown stapler
shooting 1" staples. The legs spread enough to hold things in
place.
Maybe until he leaves...

He was the one who suggested construction adhesive - the staples are only
to keep the stuff in position for a few hours.

I wouldn't trust it myself and the staples are an abomination in
themselves imo. If I were making my living that way, however, I'm sure
my choice of techniques would change to accommodate...

Probably, I know mine would ;-)

I'm not fond of staples either - I can't _stand_ furniture made with them -
they always fall apart if they're the only fastening system used.
But there are applications where they're probably the best option. This
(wainscotting over drywall with glue) is one of them.

I'm curious. What exactly is the benefit of pulling the existing tile
and drywall? The new beadboard is 3/16" of an inch thick, so adding
the thickness is a non-issue. We've agreed that construction adhesive
would adhere the stuff to the tile/grout. Pulling the tile and
drywall and replacing it with drywall or plywood costs money, entails
dump fees of a _very_ accommodating garbage man, takes time, creates a
boat load of dust, will shut down the area for at least a day or two,
etc. Gluing the stuff up takes probably less than a quarter of the
time, doesn't create appreciable dust if the guy cuts the beadboard
and trim outside, and would cost the price of the glue (beadboard and
trim being a given). So why not glue it up?

R

RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 17, 9:46 am, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
According to dpb :

Chris Lewis wrote:
A guy who works here, and previously spent a few years installing
this stuff professionally, swore by using a 1/4" crown stapler
shooting 1" staples. The legs spread enough to hold things in
place.
Maybe until he leaves...
He was the one who suggested construction adhesive - the staples are only
to keep the stuff in position for a few hours.

I wouldn't trust it myself and the staples are an abomination in
themselves imo. If I were making my living that way, however, I'm sure
my choice of techniques would change to accommodate...
Probably, I know mine would ;-)

I'm not fond of staples either - I can't _stand_ furniture made with them -
they always fall apart if they're the only fastening system used.
But there are applications where they're probably the best option. This
(wainscotting over drywall with glue) is one of them.

I'm curious. What exactly is the benefit of pulling the existing tile
and drywall? The new beadboard is 3/16" of an inch thick, so adding
the thickness is a non-issue. We've agreed that construction adhesive
would adhere the stuff to the tile/grout. Pulling the tile and
drywall and replacing it with drywall or plywood costs money, entails
dump fees of a _very_ accommodating garbage man, takes time, creates a
boat load of dust, will shut down the area for at least a day or two,
etc. Gluing the stuff up takes probably less than a quarter of the
time, doesn't create appreciable dust if the guy cuts the beadboard
and trim outside, and would cost the price of the glue (beadboard and
trim being a given). So why not glue it up?

First, who said it was only 3/16" thick?

If it is that thin stuff, could get by. Depending on the thickness of
the tile and the trim it just might still be less than flush at the ends
with the door casings if they're a full thickness and not look _too_
tacky. Does the tile go behind or is it stopped at the top of the
baseboard heaters? I'd have to see a piece in place or at least a
picture to decide if I could live with it for my own...others may not be
so picky.

--

On Oct 17, 11:30 am, dpb wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 17, 9:46 am, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
According to dpb :

Chris Lewis wrote:
A guy who works here, and previously spent a few years installing
this stuff professionally, swore by using a 1/4" crown stapler
shooting 1" staples. The legs spread enough to hold things in
place.
Maybe until he leaves...
He was the one who suggested construction adhesive - the staples are only
to keep the stuff in position for a few hours.

I wouldn't trust it myself and the staples are an abomination in
themselves imo. If I were making my living that way, however, I'm sure
my choice of techniques would change to accommodate...
Probably, I know mine would ;-)

I'm not fond of staples either - I can't _stand_ furniture made with them -
they always fall apart if they're the only fastening system used.
But there are applications where they're probably the best option. This
(wainscotting over drywall with glue) is one of them.

I'm curious. What exactly is the benefit of pulling the existing tile
and drywall? The new beadboard is 3/16" of an inch thick, so adding
the thickness is a non-issue. We've agreed that construction adhesive
would adhere the stuff to the tile/grout. Pulling the tile and
drywall and replacing it with drywall or plywood costs money, entails
dump fees of a _very_ accommodating garbage man, takes time, creates a
boat load of dust, will shut down the area for at least a day or two,
etc. Gluing the stuff up takes probably less than a quarter of the
time, doesn't create appreciable dust if the guy cuts the beadboard
and trim outside, and would cost the price of the glue (beadboard and
trim being a given). So why not glue it up?

First, who said it was only 3/16" thick?

The OP in his second post in this thread.

If it is that thin stuff, could get by. Depending on the thickness of
the tile and the trim it just might still be less than flush at the ends
with the door casings if they're a full thickness and not look _too_
tacky. Does the tile go behind or is it stopped at the top of the
baseboard heaters? I'd have to see a piece in place or at least a
picture to decide if I could live with it for my own...others may not be
so picky.

If I were planning on being in the house for only a couple of years,
I'd have to have a better reason to pull the tile and drywall than
there'd be a little trim near openings. Besides, who said the tile is
perfectly flush with the trim around the existing openings? You could
get away with chamfering or radiusing the exposed edge - it would be
self-trimming beadboard. If the beadboard ends sit flush on the
baseboard, nobody, including the manufacturer, would notice the
baseboards appreared 3/16" of an inch less deep. There's no need for
trim there either. All that's needed is a chair rail to cover the top
edge.

R

RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 17, 11:30 am, dpb wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 17, 9:46 am, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
According to dpb :
Chris Lewis wrote:
A guy who works here, and previously spent a few years installing
this stuff professionally, swore by using a 1/4" crown stapler
shooting 1" staples. The legs spread enough to hold things in
place.
Maybe until he leaves...
He was the one who suggested construction adhesive - the staples are only
to keep the stuff in position for a few hours.
I wouldn't trust it myself and the staples are an abomination in
themselves imo. If I were making my living that way, however, I'm sure
my choice of techniques would change to accommodate...
Probably, I know mine would ;-)
I'm not fond of staples either - I can't _stand_ furniture made with them -
they always fall apart if they're the only fastening system used.
But there are applications where they're probably the best option. This
(wainscotting over drywall with glue) is one of them.
I'm curious. What exactly is the benefit of pulling the existing tile
and drywall? The new beadboard is 3/16" of an inch thick, so adding
the thickness is a non-issue. We've agreed that construction adhesive
would adhere the stuff to the tile/grout. Pulling the tile and
drywall and replacing it with drywall or plywood costs money, entails
dump fees of a _very_ accommodating garbage man, takes time, creates a
boat load of dust, will shut down the area for at least a day or two,
etc. Gluing the stuff up takes probably less than a quarter of the
time, doesn't create appreciable dust if the guy cuts the beadboard
and trim outside, and would cost the price of the glue (beadboard and
trim being a given). So why not glue it up?
First, who said it was only 3/16" thick?

The OP in his second post in this thread.

If it is that thin stuff, could get by. Depending on the thickness of
the tile and the trim it just might still be less than flush at the ends
with the door casings if they're a full thickness and not look _too_
tacky. Does the tile go behind or is it stopped at the top of the
baseboard heaters? I'd have to see a piece in place or at least a
picture to decide if I could live with it for my own...others may not be
so picky.

If I were planning on being in the house for only a couple of years,
I'd have to have a better reason to pull the tile and drywall than
there'd be a little trim near openings. Besides, who said the tile is
perfectly flush with the trim around the existing openings? You could
get away with chamfering or radiusing the exposed edge - it would be
self-trimming beadboard. If the beadboard ends sit flush on the
baseboard, nobody, including the manufacturer, would notice the
baseboards appreared 3/16" of an inch less deep. There's no need for
trim there either. All that's needed is a chair rail to cover the top
edge.

I don't recall seeing that, but I stuck in my $0.02 initially after the
first and really only commented after that on my original idea/suggestions.

I've known many plans of leaving a place "in a year or two" to fall by
the wayside -- I moved to TN w/ every intention of only being there
about that long -- 25 years later, I _did_ finally get back to the farm,
but certainly never expected that to be what was in my future initially.
Add to that the current uncertainty in housing markets, depending on
where OP is, things may or may not have recovered by then enough to make
it feasible and if it were to be a tight market, anything that looked
the least bit tacky might be a hindrance.

I'm one who figures if I'm going to do it, I might as well do it the
best I know how at the time as I don't know what will be happening in
the future. As noted, others may have a different perspective; they're
welcome to them. (And, it's not how I make a living, so a little extra
time isn't that major of a concern--if there were a _real_ time
constraint, I could perhaps be persuaded to take a shortcut.)

Again, all is of course, $0.02, etc., etc., etc., ...

--