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#1
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The
technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT find any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as "hot spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these bulges and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing cracks, and showed me the bulges. But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to "view inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera". This same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the furnace with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the burners are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside. Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me? What does the heat exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is it located? There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace. The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame. The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is it possible this furnace could last several more years? I believe they recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could have been present 3 years ago too. BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems, although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand that I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both the parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the Carrier would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as long as a Carrier? Thanks, J. |
#2
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
I'm sure they love the idea of selling me a new furnace even if it isn't
really necessary at this time. Wondering if other metal inside the furnace were to crack and it weren't the heat exchanger cracking per se....would that require furnace replacement? J --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I used to do furnace checks and was told to sell new furnace installs at any cost short of being fraudulent. The heat exchanger in you furnace is welded steel and is not known to crack or develop leaks at the welded seams. However at 20 years in service I would consider an upgrade if it is your budget to afford it. If it is affordable you would benefit from an increased efficiency in a high SEER rated furnace. |
#3
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
On Oct 4, 6:06 pm, Meat Plow wrote:
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:38:58 +0000, wrote: I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT find any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as "hot spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these bulges and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing cracks, and showed me the bulges. But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to "view inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera". This same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the furnace with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the burners are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside. Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me? What does the heat exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is it located? There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace. The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame. The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is it possible this furnace could last several more years? I believe they recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could have been present 3 years ago too. BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems, although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand that I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both the parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the Carrier would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as long as a Carrier? Thanks, I used to do furnace checks and was told to sell new furnace installs at any cost short of being fraudulent. The heat exchanger in you furnace is welded steel and is not known to crack or develop leaks at the welded seams. However at 20 years in service I would consider an upgrade if it is your budget to afford it. If it is affordable you would benefit from an increased efficiency in a high SEER rated furnace. Sorry Meat, Paul is right. Furnaces don't have SEER ratings, that is an AC efficiency rating. I manage several (around 20) townhouses that all have 16-17 year old Carrier furnaces. We have replaced 3-4, and are expecting to have to replace the rest of them over the next 2-3 years because the heat exchangers are failing. Granted, it is generally the secondary heat exchangers getting plugged with crud, but it isn't far fetched that the primaries are failing too, or if you have an 80% efficient model, the primary is all you have. To the OP - No, a heat exchanger is NOT a very dense piece of metal. Here is a link to a photo : http://americanhvacparts.com/Merchan...tegory_Code=HE Your tech, from above or below, would be looking at the outside of this, getting the same view as you have in the pictures. Typically, on an upflow furnace, the heat exchanger is in the top of the cabinet, but we don't know what you have. Like Paul said, get another opinion. If you decide to wait, do yourself a favor and spend $30 (or so) on a carbon monoxide detector. JK |
#4
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I reallyneed new one?
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#5
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:38:58 GMT, "
wrote: I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT find any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as "hot spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these bulges and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing cracks, and showed me the bulges. But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to "view inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera". This same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the furnace with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the burners are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside. Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me? What does the heat exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is it located? There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace. The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame. The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is it possible this furnace could last several more years? I believe they recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could have been present 3 years ago too. BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems, although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand that I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both the parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the Carrier would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as long as a Carrier? Thanks, J. Get a new furnace before you kill your family you damn moron. |
#6
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:07:24 -0500, dpb wrote:
The risk in a cracked condenser is flue gas in the warm air stream which is a serious potentially fatal problem. While not as sensitive as a real instrument, a CO monitor could spot a serious problem. cracked condensor letting flue gas into airsrtream? LMFAO! Cr |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
" wrote in message news:6YdNi.24373$Im1.6961@trnddc01... I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT find any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as "hot spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these bulges and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing cracks, and showed me the bulges. Bulges, hum... a new sales tactic? But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to "view inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera". This same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the furnace with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the burners are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside. Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me? Yes What does the heat exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is it located? The burner tubes are inside the heat exchanger. There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace. On a 20 year old furnace? No way, get out of here! The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame. That's nice. The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is it possible this furnace could last several more years? The question as to when to replace would be economics. Where do you live? I believe they recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could have been present 3 years ago too. And probably present at the time of manufacturing. Try getting someone that's competent in HVAC. BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems, although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand that I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both the parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the Carrier would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as long as a Carrier? Any brand will last *if* properly sized, installed and set-up to run with-in the manufacture's specifications. |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
"Meat Plow" wrote in message ... On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:38:58 +0000, wrote: I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT find any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as "hot spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these bulges and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing cracks, and showed me the bulges. But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to "view inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera". This same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the furnace with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the burners are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside. Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me? What does the heat exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is it located? There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace. The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame. The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is it possible this furnace could last several more years? I believe they recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could have been present 3 years ago too. BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems, although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand that I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both the parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the Carrier would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as long as a Carrier? Thanks, I used to do furnace checks and was told to sell new furnace installs at any cost short of being fraudulent. The heat exchanger in you furnace is welded steel and is not known to crack or develop leaks at the welded seams. However at 20 years in service I would consider an upgrade if it is your budget to afford it. If it is affordable you would benefit from an increased efficiency in a high SEER rated furnace. Heat exchangers are not known to crack????? I think you're smoking crack!!!!!! |
#9
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
wrote in message ... On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:06:10 -0400, Meat Plow wrote: I used to do furnace checks and was told to sell new furnace installs at any cost short of being fraudulent. The heat exchanger in you furnace is welded steel and is not known to crack or develop leaks at the welded seams. However at 20 years in service I would consider an upgrade if it is your budget to afford it. If it is affordable you would benefit from an increased efficiency in a high SEER rated furnace. Furnaces don't have SEER ratings. How sure ARE you you 'used to do furnace checks' ?? Meat Plow qualifies to be Stormy's assistant. He spews his crap at home/repair all the time. |
#10
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
"Meat Plow" wrote in message ... On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:27:01 +0000, wrote: I'm sure they love the idea of selling me a new furnace even if it isn't really necessary at this time. Wondering if other metal inside the furnace were to crack and it weren't the heat exchanger cracking per se....would that require furnace replacement? Main concern for safety is the heat exchanger. A crack or weld leak will allow CO from the combustion to mix with the heated air. Not much other metal that would crack or such. Maybe you need to look at a induced draft, inshot burner type of furnace. Things change over the years. |
#11
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
"Big_Jake" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 4, 6:06 pm, Meat Plow wrote: On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:38:58 +0000, wrote: I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT find any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as "hot spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these bulges and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing cracks, and showed me the bulges. But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to "view inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera". This same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the furnace with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the burners are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside. Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me? What does the heat exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is it located? There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace. The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame. The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is it possible this furnace could last several more years? I believe they recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could have been present 3 years ago too. BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems, although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand that I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both the parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the Carrier would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as long as a Carrier? Thanks, I used to do furnace checks and was told to sell new furnace installs at any cost short of being fraudulent. The heat exchanger in you furnace is welded steel and is not known to crack or develop leaks at the welded seams. However at 20 years in service I would consider an upgrade if it is your budget to afford it. If it is affordable you would benefit from an increased efficiency in a high SEER rated furnace. Sorry Meat, Paul is right. Furnaces don't have SEER ratings, that is an AC efficiency rating. I manage several (around 20) townhouses that all have 16-17 year old Carrier furnaces. We have replaced 3-4, and are expecting to have to replace the rest of them over the next 2-3 years because the heat exchangers are failing. Granted, it is generally the secondary heat exchangers getting plugged with crud, but it isn't far fetched that the primaries are failing too, or if you have an 80% efficient model, the primary is all you have. To the OP - No, a heat exchanger is NOT a very dense piece of metal. Here is a link to a photo : http://americanhvacparts.com/Merchan...Y&Category_Cod e=HE Your tech, from above or below, would be looking at the outside of this, getting the same view as you have in the pictures. Typically, on an upflow furnace, the heat exchanger is in the top of the cabinet, but we don't know what you have. Like Paul said, get another opinion. If you decide to wait, do yourself a favor and spend $30 (or so) on a carbon monoxide detector. JK A 30 dollar CO detector is crap. Unless you spend a couple hundred dollars on a good one, it's a false sense of security. |
#12
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
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#13
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
On Oct 4, 8:25 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"Big_Jake" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 4, 6:06 pm, Meat Plow wrote: On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:38:58 +0000, wrote: I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT find any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as "hot spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these bulges and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing cracks, and showed me the bulges. But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to "view inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera". This same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the furnace with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the burners are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside. Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me? What does the heat exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is it located? There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace. The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame. The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is it possible this furnace could last several more years? I believe they recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could have been present 3 years ago too. BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems, although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand that I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both the parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the Carrier would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as long as a Carrier? Thanks, I used to do furnace checks and was told to sell new furnace installs at any cost short of being fraudulent. The heat exchanger in you furnace is welded steel and is not known to crack or develop leaks at the welded seams. However at 20 years in service I would consider an upgrade if it is your budget to afford it. If it is affordable you would benefit from an increased efficiency in a high SEER rated furnace. Sorry Meat, Paul is right. Furnaces don't have SEER ratings, that is an AC efficiency rating. I manage several (around 20) townhouses that all have 16-17 year old Carrier furnaces. We have replaced 3-4, and are expecting to have to replace the rest of them over the next 2-3 years because the heat exchangers are failing. Granted, it is generally the secondary heat exchangers getting plugged with crud, but it isn't far fetched that the primaries are failing too, or if you have an 80% efficient model, the primary is all you have. To the OP - No, a heat exchanger is NOT a very dense piece of metal. Here is a link to a photo : http://americanhvacparts.com/Merchan...een=CTGY&Categ... e=HE Your tech, from above or below, would be looking at the outside of this, getting the same view as you have in the pictures. Typically, on an upflow furnace, the heat exchanger is in the top of the cabinet, but we don't know what you have. Like Paul said, get another opinion. If you decide to wait, do yourself a favor and spend $30 (or so) on a carbon monoxide detector. JK A 30 dollar CO detector is crap. Unless you spend a couple hundred dollars on a good one, it's a false sense of security.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Heat exchangers do crack, yes you can look inside the exchanger, and usauly there will be a white area around the crack but not always, get a second if you want if he says the same buy it |
#14
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
Ok, so it sounds like your telling me that they're trying to BS me about the
idea that bulges or curves in the metal are a sign that it is close to the point of cracking. What he showed me doesn't strike me as appearing to be present by design though. Anyway, it sounds like I need to be getting a 2nd opinion as to whether the bulges or curves in the metal really mean that the metal is about to crack. Is there anyone you recommend in Northern NJ that knows what they are doing? Thanks, J kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message ... " wrote in message news:6YdNi.24373$Im1.6961@trnddc01... I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT find any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as "hot spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these bulges and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing cracks, and showed me the bulges. Bulges, hum... a new sales tactic? But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to "view inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera". This same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the furnace with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the burners are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside. Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me? Yes What does the heat exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is it located? The burner tubes are inside the heat exchanger. There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace. On a 20 year old furnace? No way, get out of here! The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame. That's nice. The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is it possible this furnace could last several more years? The question as to when to replace would be economics. Where do you live? I believe they recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could have been present 3 years ago too. And probably present at the time of manufacturing. Try getting someone that's competent in HVAC. BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems, although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand that I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both the parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the Carrier would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as long as a Carrier? Any brand will last *if* properly sized, installed and set-up to run with-in the manufacture's specifications. |
#15
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
Big_Jake wrote:
... Furnaces don't have SEER ratings They do have EERs, like ASHRAE bunnies: if a furnace moves 40K Btu/h with a 400 watt blower, the EER is 40K/(400x3.41) = 29. If a 2K Btu/h car radiator with 36 W fans moves (140-50)2K = 180K Btu/h from 140 F solar heated water to 50 F air with a 170 W pump, the EER is 180K/(206x3.41) = 256. Nick |
#16
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
A 30 dollar CO detector is crap. Unless you spend a couple hundred dollars on a good one, it's a false sense of security. Would you have any evidence for this article of faith? Nick |
#17
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
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#18
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
On 4 Oct, 20:00, Big_Jake wrote:
On Oct 4, 6:06 pm, Meat Plow wrote: On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:38:58 +0000, wrote: I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT find any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as "hot spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these bulges and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing cracks, and showed me the bulges. But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to "view inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera". This same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the furnace with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the burners are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside. Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me? What does the heat exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is it located? There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace. The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame. The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is it possible this furnace could last several more years? I believe they recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could have been present 3 years ago too. BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems, although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand that I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both the parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the Carrier would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as long as a Carrier? Thanks, I used to do furnace checks and was told to sell new furnace installs at any cost short of being fraudulent. The heat exchanger in you furnace is welded steel and is not known to crack or develop leaks at the welded seams. However at 20 years in service I would consider an upgrade if it is your budget to afford it. If it is affordable you would benefit from an increased efficiency in a high SEER rated furnace. Sorry Meat, Paul is right. Furnaces don't have SEER ratings, that is an AC efficiency rating. I manage several (around 20) townhouses that all have 16-17 year old Carrier furnaces. We have replaced 3-4, and are expecting to have to replace the rest of them over the next 2-3 years because the heat exchangers are failing. Granted, it is generally the secondary heat exchangers getting plugged with crud, but it isn't far fetched that the primaries are failing too, or if you have an 80% efficient model, the primary is all you have. To the OP - No, a heat exchanger is NOT a very dense piece of metal. Here is a link to a photo : http://americanhvacparts.com/Merchan...een=CTGY&Categ... Your tech, from above or below, would be looking at the outside of this, getting the same view as you have in the pictures. Typically, on an upflow furnace, the heat exchanger is in the top of the cabinet, but we don't know what you have. Like Paul said, get another opinion. If you decide to wait, do yourself a favor and spend $30 (or so) on a carbon monoxide detector. JK- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "No, a heat exchanger is NOT a very dense piece of metal." Granted, I can't speak to a 20 YO Carrier, but the heat exchanger on my old gas fired unit was one heavy, honkin' mass of metal, looking somewhat similiar to an old water filled radiator. By far the heaviest component of the entire furnace. |
#20
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
In article 6YdNi.24373$Im1.6961@trnddc01, " wrote:
The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is it possible this furnace could last several more years? I believe they recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could have been present 3 years ago too. This technician is probably right. You should start planning for a replacement furnace fairly soon. Yes, the existing furnace may last a while longer. But it may fail as soon as the really cold weather sets in and then you'll probably have a very hard time finding anyone to work on it unless you're willing to pay a premium price. But you'd also be crazy to give the job to the first guy that came along. It's time to get recommendations and prices from several firms and think through exactly what kind of system you're going to want. -- |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". | | Gary Player. | | http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
#21
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
In article ,
Bubba wrote: On 5 Oct 2007 04:19:56 -0400, wrote: kjpro @ usenet.com wrote: A 30 dollar CO detector is crap. Unless you spend a couple hundred dollars on a good one, it's a false sense of security. Would you have any evidence for this article of faith? Nick Nick, You can start right here. Its on the front page http://coexperts.com/ The level that CO detectors DONT alarm at is the real problem. Happy reading. Bubba If I were Nick, I'd next ask: Do you have any evidence *other* than claims made on the website of a company selling the high-priced detectors? |
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I reallyneed new one?
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#23
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
wrote in message ... kjpro @ usenet.com wrote: A 30 dollar CO detector is crap. Unless you spend a couple hundred dollars on a good one, it's a false sense of security. Would you have any evidence for this article of faith? Name one cheap $30 detector that protects against low level CO poisoning. |
#24
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
"Smitty Two" wrote in message news In article , Bubba wrote: On 5 Oct 2007 04:19:56 -0400, wrote: kjpro @ usenet.com wrote: A 30 dollar CO detector is crap. Unless you spend a couple hundred dollars on a good one, it's a false sense of security. Would you have any evidence for this article of faith? Nick Nick, You can start right here. Its on the front page http://coexperts.com/ The level that CO detectors DONT alarm at is the real problem. Happy reading. Bubba If I were Nick, I'd next ask: Do you have any evidence *other* than claims made on the website of a company selling the high-priced detectors? Sure do... look up UL-2034 Then check the data on acceptable alarm levels. Now find a normal big box store that carries anything *but* UL listed detectors. Name one of those detectors that sound an alarm when the CO sensor fails. Most people don't understand that they need to be replaced after a few years. It a false sense of security, PERIOD. |
#25
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message ps.com... On 4 Oct, 20:00, Big_Jake wrote: On Oct 4, 6:06 pm, Meat Plow wrote: On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:38:58 +0000, wrote: I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT find any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as "hot spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these bulges and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing cracks, and showed me the bulges. But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to "view inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera". This same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the furnace with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the burners are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside. Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me? What does the heat exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is it located? There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace. The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame. The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is it possible this furnace could last several more years? I believe they recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could have been present 3 years ago too. BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems, although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand that I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both the parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the Carrier would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as long as a Carrier? Thanks, I used to do furnace checks and was told to sell new furnace installs at any cost short of being fraudulent. The heat exchanger in you furnace is welded steel and is not known to crack or develop leaks at the welded seams. However at 20 years in service I would consider an upgrade if it is your budget to afford it. If it is affordable you would benefit from an increased efficiency in a high SEER rated furnace. Sorry Meat, Paul is right. Furnaces don't have SEER ratings, that is an AC efficiency rating. I manage several (around 20) townhouses that all have 16-17 year old Carrier furnaces. We have replaced 3-4, and are expecting to have to replace the rest of them over the next 2-3 years because the heat exchangers are failing. Granted, it is generally the secondary heat exchangers getting plugged with crud, but it isn't far fetched that the primaries are failing too, or if you have an 80% efficient model, the primary is all you have. To the OP - No, a heat exchanger is NOT a very dense piece of metal. Here is a link to a photo : http://americanhvacparts.com/Merchan...een=CTGY&Categ... Your tech, from above or below, would be looking at the outside of this, getting the same view as you have in the pictures. Typically, on an upflow furnace, the heat exchanger is in the top of the cabinet, but we don't know what you have. Like Paul said, get another opinion. If you decide to wait, do yourself a favor and spend $30 (or so) on a carbon monoxide detector. JK- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "No, a heat exchanger is NOT a very dense piece of metal." Granted, I can't speak to a 20 YO Carrier, but the heat exchanger on my old gas fired unit was one heavy, honkin' mass of metal, looking somewhat similiar to an old water filled radiator. By far the heaviest component of the entire furnace. It may be the heaviest, but it's not like its a 1/4 inch thick. |
#26
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Do bulges or curves in the heat exchanger mean it is about to crack, YES or NO?
Do bulges or curves in the metal of the heat exchanger mean it is about to
crack or not? Yes or no? J. |
#27
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Do bulges or curves in the heat exchanger mean it is about to crack, YES or NO?
In article 8itNi.13$C2.7@trnddc02,
" wrote: Do bulges or curves in the metal of the heat exchanger mean it is about to crack or not? Yes or no? J. Maybe you should take this over to alt.answers.magic8ball. |
#28
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Do bulges or curves in the heat exchanger mean it is about to crack, YES or NO?
" wrote in message news:8itNi.13$C2.7@trnddc02... Do bulges or curves in the metal of the heat exchanger mean it is about to crack or not? Yes or no? No |
#29
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
On 5 Oct, 12:05, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message ps.com... On 4 Oct, 20:00, Big_Jake wrote: On Oct 4, 6:06 pm, Meat Plow wrote: On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:38:58 +0000, wrote: I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT find any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as "hot spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these bulges and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing cracks, and showed me the bulges. But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to "view inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera". This same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the furnace with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the burners are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside. Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me? What does the heat exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is it located? There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace. The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame. The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is it possible this furnace could last several more years? I believe they recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could have been present 3 years ago too. BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems, although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand that I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both the parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the Carrier would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as long as a Carrier? Thanks, I used to do furnace checks and was told to sell new furnace installs at any cost short of being fraudulent. The heat exchanger in you furnace is welded steel and is not known to crack or develop leaks at the welded seams. However at 20 years in service I would consider an upgrade if it is your budget to afford it. If it is affordable you would benefit from an increased efficiency in a high SEER rated furnace. Sorry Meat, Paul is right. Furnaces don't have SEER ratings, that is an AC efficiency rating. I manage several (around 20) townhouses that all have 16-17 year old Carrier furnaces. We have replaced 3-4, and are expecting to have to replace the rest of them over the next 2-3 years because the heat exchangers are failing. Granted, it is generally the secondary heat exchangers getting plugged with crud, but it isn't far fetched that the primaries are failing too, or if you have an 80% efficient model, the primary is all you have. To the OP - No, a heat exchanger is NOT a very dense piece of metal. Here is a link to a photo : http://americanhvacparts.com/Merchan...een=CTGY&Categ... Your tech, from above or below, would be looking at the outside of this, getting the same view as you have in the pictures. Typically, on an upflow furnace, the heat exchanger is in the top of the cabinet, but we don't know what you have. Like Paul said, get another opinion. If you decide to wait, do yourself a favor and spend $30 (or so) on a carbon monoxide detector. JK- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - "No, a heat exchanger is NOT a very dense piece of metal." Granted, I can't speak to a 20 YO Carrier, but the heat exchanger on my old gas fired unit was one heavy, honkin' mass of metal, looking somewhat similiar to an old water filled radiator. By far the heaviest component of the entire furnace. - It may be the heaviest, but it's not like its a 1/4 inch thick Dunno...it was a 1950-ish Perfection gas fired forced air. From exterior of the heat exchanger, it certainly appeared and felt, like the unit was pretty thick. In an earlier post, someone said (about the 20 YO Carrier) "The burner tubes are inside the heat exchanger". On my perfection, the burner was below the heat exchanger in it's own compartment. The burner was, I don't know, about a 9" x 9" plate with over a hundred (?) flames. The heat exchanger pictured towards the bottom of this site looks like an absolute wimp compared to the rough surfaced, solid looking heat exchanger in my old furnace. |
#30
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
On 5 Oct, 13:43, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:28:03 -0500, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote: wrote in message ... kjpro @ usenet.com wrote: A 30 dollar CO detector is crap. Unless you spend a couple hundred dollars on a good one, it's a false sense of security. Would you have any evidence for this article of faith? Name one cheap $30 detector that protects against low level CO poisoning. hehe. 95% of the population (I made that percentage up on guesstimate) doesn't have a clue that an "average" CO detector might as well just be a dim night light plugged in the wall. At least you can tell when a night light goes bad. Bubba- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- 95% of the population (I made that percentage up on guesstimate) ... Did you know that 93.7% off all statistics are made up on the spot? |
#31
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
On 5 Oct, 14:37, "-zero" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message oups.com... On 5 Oct, 12:05, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote: "DerbyDad03" wrote in message - It may be the heaviest, but it's not like its a 1/4 inch thick Dunno...it was a 1950-ish Perfection gas fired forced air. From exterior of the heat exchanger, it certainly appeared and felt, like the unit was pretty thick. ... In an earlier post, someone said (about the 20 YO Carrier) "The burner tubes are inside the heat exchanger". On my perfection, the burner was below the heat exchanger in it's own compartment. The burner was, I don't know, about a 9" x 9" plate with over a hundred (?) flames. Sounds like a manufacturers conversion from oil to gas. The heat exchanger pictured towards the bottom of this site looks like an absolute wimp compared to the rough surfaced, solid looking heat exchanger in my old furnace. Sounds Like an oil to gas conversion. Midco burners did quite well through to 60's-70's. :-) In the early 60's, there were quite a few companies that designed their own conversion burner (or fuel burner of choice) as they we're sitting on a cargo loads of oil furnace chambers that were not moving anytime soon. As Natural-Gas lines were being run like mad through the big cities, Gas furnace design was changing from gravity units w/ add-on blowers, to the typical 80%'ers of the 1960's-80's. Mind you, back then there were 1,000 times (WAG) the number of furnace and boiler manufacturers in the US. Many were very popular/well known but only encompassing a very small region of the country. Some of these are still running today, due to the lack of the Planned-Obsolescence concept, and the focus was mostly "Ours is better/stronger/faster than yours". -zero If it was a conversion, it was certainly done by the manufacturer, as you stated. The manual included instructions for the installed gas valve and side mounted blower. The original gas valve had a flip-up tab so you could manually operate the gas valve during a power outage. The manual listed the duty cycle for operating the unit without a blower. I doubt the comparatively wimpy heat exchangers of today's furnaces could handle running without a blower. Wouldn't you know that early one winter the gas valve started acting up, so I placed a service a call. They had to replace the gas valve, and "No, you can't have one that can be operated manually. They're illegal now." So what happens during March of same winter? A major ice storm in upstate NY. We were without power - and now without heat due to the "upgraded" gas valve - for 5 days. |
#32
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
"Bubba" wrote in message ... On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:28:03 -0500, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote: wrote in message ... kjpro @ usenet.com wrote: A 30 dollar CO detector is crap. Unless you spend a couple hundred dollars on a good one, it's a false sense of security. Would you have any evidence for this article of faith? Name one cheap $30 detector that protects against low level CO poisoning. hehe. 95% of the population (I made that percentage up on guesstimate) doesn't have a clue that an "average" CO detector might as well just be a dim night light plugged in the wall. At least you can tell when a night light goes bad. Bubba It should be illegal to sell them without a disclaimer. |
#33
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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?
"ftwhd" wrote in message ... I see why you ****ing idiots cross post to alt.hvac. The 20 yo 80% furnace is just as efficient as todays 80% furnace. Natural draft vs induced draft. No way. |
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