Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.

What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
condenser for 90+ temp days.

How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:13:24 -0700, BoyntonStu wrote
Re Spray water on compressor to raise efficiency?:

Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.

What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
condenser for 90+ temp days.

How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?

Well, assuming the water is about 70F, you would gain a considerable
increase in efficiency. But then, you would probably ruin you
condensers with corrosion and fouling.

BoyntonStu wrote:
Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.

What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
condenser for 90+ temp days.

How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?

Negitive gain as your unit isn't setup to take the water and the fins would
corrode and then you need a new unit costing more than you saved.

Rich

In article m,
says...
BoyntonStu wrote:
Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.

What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
condenser for 90+ temp days.

How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?

Negitive gain as your unit isn't setup to take the water and the fins would
corrode and then you need a new unit costing more than you saved.

If they're designed to sit out in the rain all winter, would occasional
water in the summer really be that damaging? (Suppose it depends on how
corrosive the city water supply is....)

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html

The temperature difference between the condenser coil
and the air is the point of balance where all of the heat in
the gas is rejected and the gas condenses into a liquid
At this point of balance the pressure becomes constant
at the condensing pressure.
The difference in Evaporating and condensing pressure is
then used to force the liquid refrigerant through the
refrigerant control. If this pressure is reduced then flow is
reduced and the evaporator can starve.

"BoyntonStu" wrote in message
ups.com...
Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.

What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
condenser for 90+ temp days.

How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?

in grocery store we put in misters on our condensers,cut elec bill
in half.had to clean coils twice a tear with lime remover.lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

wrote in message

If they're designed to sit out in the rain all winter, would occasional
water in the summer really be that damaging? (Suppose it depends on how
corrosive the city water supply is....)

Rain water, although not pure, does not contain the minerals that tap water
usually does. You can get quite a buildup of crud on the coils if you
spray.

The reason for the compromises which cause
manufacturers to choose air cooled condensers
are easily understood.
For example spraying a 100 ml mist of water
per second equals 360 Liters per hour or app
3.6 tons of water per 10 hr day.
Which in one year of 300 days equals 1000 tons
if this is multiplied by 100 million consumers then
then the loss is one hundred billion tons of clean
water.per year.
That would make the price of bread even more
****ing outrageous than it is. So the next time you
enjoy a couple of slices of toast you should think
about that.


wrote in message
...
in grocery store we put in misters on our condensers,cut elec bill
in half.had to clean coils twice a tear with lime remover.lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

On Sep 26, 10:46 pm, "Telstra" wrote:
The reason for the compromises which cause
manufacturers to choose air cooled condensers
are easily understood.
For example spraying a 100 ml mist of water
per second equals 360 Liters per hour or app
3.6 tons of water per 10 hr day.
Which in one year of 300 days equals 1000 tons
if this is multiplied by 100 million consumers then
then the loss is one hundred billion tons of clean
water.per year.
That would make the price of bread even more
****ing outrageous than it is. So the next time you
enjoy a couple of slices of toast you should think
about that.

wrote in message

...

in grocery store we put in misters on our condensers,cut elec bill
in half.had to clean coils twice a tear with lime remover.lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

How about a recirculating system that uses the same water (+ makeup
for evaporation) over and over again.


The water would be sprayed on the coils, collected, pumped a few feet
into the 70* ground to cool, and sprayed again.

wrote:
in grocery store we put in misters on our condensers,cut elec bill
in half.had to clean coils twice a tear with lime remover.lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

Hmmm,
It'd be OK if distilled water is used?

"BoyntonStu" wrote

What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
condenser for 90+ temp days.

I pumped rainwater water up from a plastic 55 gallon drum through
a horizontal tube with some holes over the coil of a window AC.

How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?

.... 20% in my experiments and 22% in Y. Goswami's U. Florida central air
experiments. He built a swamp cooler around the AC coil, so the water
never touched it. I avoided mineral buildup by using rainwater, with
a $10 10 W fountain pump in a plastic 55 gallon drum below the AC.
Limestone in the drum helps avoid acid rain problems.

Nick

Telstra wrote:

... spraying a 100 ml mist of water per second
equals 360 Liters per hour

Evaporating that water takes 360x2.2x1000 = 792K Btu/h, like 158 5K Btu/h
window ACs :-) Or more, if the water does not provide all the cooling :-)

Nick

On Sep 27, 4:55 am, wrote:
"BoyntonStu" wrote

What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
condenser for 90+ temp days.

I pumped rainwater water up from a plastic 55 gallon drum through
a horizontal tube with some holes over the coil of a window AC.

How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?

... 20% in my experiments and 22% in Y. Goswami's U. Florida central air
experiments. He built a swamp cooler around the AC coil, so the water
never touched it. I avoided mineral buildup by using rainwater, with
a $10 10 W fountain pump in a plastic 55 gallon drum below the AC.
Limestone in the drum helps avoid acid rain problems.

Nick

Some thoughts.

The average house unit in Florida is several tins ad it produces about
1 gallon of cool condensed water per day HMMM?

Some details please on the swamp cooler design.

Would this idea work?

Sink a 55 gallon drum into the 70* ground to cool the water and to
hide it.

Pipe all condensate into the drum.

Swamp cooler surrounding the condenser.

BoyntonStu

I have a duplex on an island.

The utilities last month were almost $700.

On Sep 27, 7:41 am, BoyntonStu wrote:
On Sep 27, 4:55 am, wrote:





"BoyntonStu" wrote

What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
condenser for 90+ temp days.

I pumped rainwater water up from a plastic 55 gallon drum through
a horizontal tube with some holes over the coil of a window AC.

How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?

... 20% in my experiments and 22% in Y. Goswami's U. Florida central air
experiments. He built a swamp cooler around the AC coil, so the water
never touched it. I avoided mineral buildup by using rainwater, with
a $10 10 W fountain pump in a plastic 55 gallon drum below the AC.
Limestone in the drum helps avoid acid rain problems.

Nick

Some thoughts.

The average house unit in Florida is several tins ad it produces about
1 gallon of cool condensed water per day HMMM?

Some details please on the swamp cooler design.

Would this idea work?

Sink a 55 gallon drum into the 70* ground to cool the water and to
hide it.

Pipe all condensate into the drum.

Swamp cooler surrounding the condenser.

BoyntonStu

I have a duplex on an island.

The utilities last month were almost $700.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The savings won,t equal the added bother.

On Sep 26, 7:13 pm, BoyntonStu wrote:
Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.

What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
condenser for 90+ temp days.

How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?

The problem is corrosion and scale buildup.
What I would do if I had a big yard would be
to use a trenching machine and bury some
3/4" polyethylene line and use the ground as
a supplementary heat sink. A flat plate heat
exchanger and glycol solution incorperated
into the AC/heat pump system would add a
lot of efficiency. Here are a few links to give
you an idea of what I'm referring to:

http://www.geokiss.com/res-design/GSHPDesignRec2.pdf

http://www.flatplate.com/?gclid=CKa8...FRVKUAodpzG4WQ

[8~{} Uncle Monster

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:XRFKi.1444$x%6.1103@pd7urf2no...
wrote:
in grocery store we put in misters on our condensers,cut elec bill
in half.had to clean coils twice a tear with lime remover.lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

Hmmm,
It'd be OK if distilled water is used?

Should be. That is similar to how the window units work with a slinger ring
to get rid of condensate.

BoyntonStu wrote:

The average house unit in Florida is several tins ad it produces about
1 gallon of cool condensed water per day HMMM?

Tins? :-)

Some details please on the swamp cooler design.

Goswami used an Acme Kool Cell greenhouse evaporative cooler kit. Swamp
Thing is another brand. Stuppy Greenhouse Manufacturing sells a 10' length
of Swamp Thing pads and gutters and overhead sprinklers for $181.

Goswami cut one down to make something like a 2.5' cube surrounding
an outdoor condensing unit. You also need something like Stuppy's $268
"Plumbing completion package" which has a float valve and an adjustable
bleedoff valve (nominally 1%) to avoid mineral buildup. The idea is
to surround the condensing coil with a swamp cooler box.

Would this idea work?

Sink a 55 gallon drum into the 70* ground to cool the water and to hide it.

The ground won't help much in cooling it.

Pipe all condensate into the drum.

Sounds good.

Swamp cooler surrounding the condenser.

You might just trickle the mineral-free condensate and rainwater
over the coil, with no swamp cooler.

The utilities last month were almost $700.

jim

The savings won,t equal the added bother.

.... 0.2x700 = $140 per month? :-)

Nick

on 9/26/2007 10:57 PM BoyntonStu said the following:
On Sep 26, 10:46 pm, "Telstra" wrote:

The reason for the compromises which cause
manufacturers to choose air cooled condensers
are easily understood.
For example spraying a 100 ml mist of water
per second equals 360 Liters per hour or app
3.6 tons of water per 10 hr day.
Which in one year of 300 days equals 1000 tons
if this is multiplied by 100 million consumers then
then the loss is one hundred billion tons of clean
water.per year.
That would make the price of bread even more
****ing outrageous than it is. So the next time you
enjoy a couple of slices of toast you should think
about that.

wrote in message

...


in grocery store we put in misters on our condensers,cut elec bill
in half.had to clean coils twice a tear with lime remover.lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm


How about a recirculating system that uses the same water (+ makeup
for evaporation) over and over again.


The water would be sprayed on the coils, collected, pumped a few feet
into the 70* ground to cool, and sprayed again.


Go down 5' and get 55º.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Sep 27, 12:49 pm, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:
"BoyntonStu" wrote in message

ups.com...

Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.

What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
condenser for 90+ temp days.

How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?

There have been a number of commercial kits to do this. The problem is,
even with soft water, they scale up the evaporators fast and that reduces
the efficiency. Don't bother.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

A real hack would be to cut the condenser apart, and place the coils
in a 'bathtub' in the ground, etc

on 9/27/2007 1:35 PM BoyntonStu said the following:
On Sep 27, 12:49 pm, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

"BoyntonStu" wrote in message

ups.com...


Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.

What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
condenser for 90+ temp days.

How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?

There have been a number of commercial kits to do this. The problem is,
even with soft water, they scale up the evaporators fast and that reduces
the efficiency. Don't bother.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit


A real hack would be to cut the condenser apart, and place the coils
in a 'bathtub' in the ground, etc



How about running an AC duct from the AC to the condenser? :-)

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"BoyntonStu" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Sep 26, 10:46 pm, "Telstra" wrote:
The reason for the compromises which cause
manufacturers to choose air cooled condensers
are easily understood.
For example spraying a 100 ml mist of water
per second equals 360 Liters per hour or app
3.6 tons of water per 10 hr day.
Which in one year of 300 days equals 1000 tons
if this is multiplied by 100 million consumers then
then the loss is one hundred billion tons of clean
water.per year.
That would make the price of bread even more
****ing outrageous than it is. So the next time you
enjoy a couple of slices of toast you should think
about that.

wrote in message

...

in grocery store we put in misters on our condensers,cut elec bill
in half.had to clean coils twice a tear with lime remover.lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

How about a recirculating system that uses the same water (+ makeup
for evaporation) over and over again.


The water would be sprayed on the coils, collected, pumped a few feet
into the 70* ground to cool, and sprayed again.


Or, put underground coils carrying fluid into a heat exchanger and have a
"geothermal heat pump/AC".

Bob

On Sep 29, 1:08 am, "Bob F" wrote:
"BoyntonStu" wrote in message

ps.com...



On Sep 26, 10:46 pm, "Telstra" wrote:
The reason for the compromises which cause
manufacturers to choose air cooled condensers
are easily understood.
For example spraying a 100 ml mist of water
per second equals 360 Liters per hour or app
3.6 tons of water per 10 hr day.
Which in one year of 300 days equals 1000 tons
if this is multiplied by 100 million consumers then
then the loss is one hundred billion tons of clean
water.per year.
That would make the price of bread even more
****ing outrageous than it is. So the next time you
enjoy a couple of slices of toast you should think
about that.

wrote in message

...

in grocery store we put in misters on our condensers,cut elec bill
in half.had to clean coils twice a tear with lime remover.lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

How about a recirculating system that uses the same water (+ makeup
for evaporation) over and over again.

The water would be sprayed on the coils, collected, pumped a few feet
into the 70* ground to cool, and sprayed again.

Or, put underground coils carrying fluid into a heat exchanger and have a
"geothermal heat pump/AC".

Bob

First, I re-learned today (I forgot) that window AC units spray the
condensate on the coils.

Condensate spray on the coils is old-hat.

Another way is to pipe the freon underground and do away with the
water to water heat exchanger.