Hello



I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.



I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.



The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or to
the owner?

I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.

I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.

The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or to
the owner?

Hmm. A couple of ways to go on this.

You could call him and say that if he wants this to be off the books,
then offer me a substantial discount.

or, (and I'd tend to do this for the reasons you cited)

You could call him and just let him know that you don't feel
comfortable doing this off the books because of permitting and other
legal reasons, and let him know you'll be sending the check in the
company name.

I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a
bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.

I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.

The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so
I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or
to
the owner?

Just curious... couldn't you put "John Smith of ABC company" in the payee
field and the invoice # in the memo field?

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 23:55:03 -0700, "Tube Audio"
wrote:

Hello



I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.



I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.



The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or to
the owner?



Make it payable to their request. A lot of businesses have checks
made out to the owner. Dentist is one example. More power to them
if they can avoid taxes and never get caught.

On Jun 20, 3:42 am, Abe wrote:
I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.

I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.

The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or to
the owner?

Hmm. A couple of ways to go on this.

You could call him and say that if he wants this to be off the books,
then offer me a substantial discount.

Is that how you operate? The contractor completes the work to your
satisfaction, then you try to back-end in a discount by squeezing the
guy?

or, (and I'd tend to do this for the reasons you cited)

You could call him and just let him know that you don't feel
comfortable doing this off the books because of permitting and other
legal reasons, and let him know you'll be sending the check in the
company name.

Sheesh. No one cares about who's name is on the flippin' check! As
another post mentioned, just reference the invoice number in the memo
area on the check.

R

On Jun 20, 8:05 am, Phisherman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 23:55:03 -0700, "Tube Audio"





wrote:
Hello

I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.

I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.

The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or to
the owner?

Make it payable to their request. A lot of businesses have checks
made out to the owner. Dentist is one example. More power to them
if they can avoid taxes and never get caught.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Having checks made out to you personally is a pretty dumb tax
avoidance scheme. There will be a trail of cancelled checks for
years, which would make an excellent and irrefutable evidence in a tax
case. And as you point out, it's not unusual to pay some businesses
in the name of the owner.

I don't see how any of this relates to permits or proof the work was
done. If permits were pulled, they are on record. There should also
be a contract or at least a receipt for the work done, which will be
marked paid. The fact that a check was written out on that date for
that amount to the owner completes any evidence you need that the work
was done and paid for.

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 20, 8:05 am, Phisherman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 23:55:03 -0700, "Tube Audio"





wrote:
Hello

I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a
bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.

I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.

The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name
as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor
so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and
my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or
to
the owner?

Make it payable to their request. A lot of businesses have checks
made out to the owner. Dentist is one example. More power to them
if they can avoid taxes and never get caught.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Having checks made out to you personally is a pretty dumb tax
avoidance scheme. There will be a trail of cancelled checks for
years, which would make an excellent and irrefutable evidence in a tax
case. And as you point out, it's not unusual to pay some businesses
in the name of the owner.

I don't see how any of this relates to permits or proof the work was
done. If permits were pulled, they are on record. There should also
be a contract or at least a receipt for the work done, which will be
marked paid. The fact that a check was written out on that date for
that amount to the owner completes any evidence you need that the work
was done and paid for.

I agree. If the work was done by this man, why not write it out however he
wants it written? who really cares how he does his banking or his taxes? It
probably makes it easier on him... maybe allows his wife to make the
deposits or whatever... it's irrelevant

On Jun 20, 2:55 am, "Tube Audio" wrote:
Hello

I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.

I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.

The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or to
the owner?

It doesn't matter what you do, but if you make the check out to the
company, you are done. If you make it out to the person, you are
supposed to issue a 1099 to the person at the end of the year -- so
the person can't avoid taxes.

In article ,
"Tube Audio" wrote:

Hello



I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.



I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.



The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or to
the owner?

I'm going to disagree with other respondents, here. If it were me, I'd
make the check out to the company. The owner may be trying to avoid
taxes or he may be trying to simplify bookkeeping or he may even be
doing business under a fictitious name without having made it all nice
and legal. Whatever the reason, it sounds unprofessional at best. It is
my (apparently unpopular) opinion that no reputable business asks checks
to be made out to the owner.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Tube Audio" wrote:

Hello



I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a
bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.



I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.



The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name
as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor
so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or
to
the owner?

I'm going to disagree with other respondents, here. If it were me, I'd
make the check out to the company. The owner may be trying to avoid
taxes or he may be trying to simplify bookkeeping or he may even be
doing business under a fictitious name without having made it all nice
and legal. Whatever the reason, it sounds unprofessional at best. It is
my (apparently unpopular) opinion that no reputable business asks checks
to be made out to the owner.

many contractors, particularly in the north east, are no more than an
independent carpenter/ contractor with no other employees.

"Tube Audio" wrote in message
t...
Hello



I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a
bill. The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink
make check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the
company.



I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.



The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so
I want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and
my neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business
or to the owner?
Well, if you made a check out to my company name I couldn't cash it because
I don't have a bank account in my company name. I suppose I would pay less
taxes in that case, since I would not have been paid; though I would have to
sue you.

Why not avoid all that and just pay him?
I did just get a company credit card; I thought that was pretty cool.

In article UV9ei.8117$gI4.3643@trndny06,
"longshot" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Tube Audio" wrote:

Hello



I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a
bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.



I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.



The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name
as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor
so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or
to
the owner?

I'm going to disagree with other respondents, here. If it were me, I'd
make the check out to the company. The owner may be trying to avoid
taxes or he may be trying to simplify bookkeeping or he may even be
doing business under a fictitious name without having made it all nice
and legal. Whatever the reason, it sounds unprofessional at best. It is
my (apparently unpopular) opinion that no reputable business asks checks
to be made out to the owner.

many contractors, particularly in the north east, are no more than an
independent carpenter/ contractor with no other employees.

That's fine, but if they don't want to be paid under a company name,
they shouldn't have one. Legally, in fact, you can't do business under a
DBA without filing appropriate legal paperwork, which is pretty damn
simple. Then you take that paperwork to the bank and set up a checking
account in the name of the business. Nothing wrong with doing business
using your real name, but using a fictitious name to gather business and
then asking customers to pay you personally is b.s.

In article ,
"Toller" wrote:


Well, if you made a check out to my company name I couldn't cash it because
I don't have a bank account in my company name.

That's your problem, not your customer's problem.

longshot wrote:
"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Tube Audio" wrote:

Hello



I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a
bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.



I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.



The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name
as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor
so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or
to
the owner?
I'm going to disagree with other respondents, here. If it were me, I'd
make the check out to the company. The owner may be trying to avoid
taxes or he may be trying to simplify bookkeeping or he may even be
doing business under a fictitious name without having made it all nice
and legal. Whatever the reason, it sounds unprofessional at best. It is
my (apparently unpopular) opinion that no reputable business asks checks
to be made out to the owner.

many contractors, particularly in the north east, are no more than an
independent carpenter/ contractor with no other employees.

So they're a sole proprietorship dba "XYZ Construction" -- why ask for
the check made to them personally when if they're paying business taxes
it's all on their 1040? (Simple answer -- to avoid paying SE tax FICA
and possibly state/local sales taxes as well depending on locality).

I'm w/ the basic tenet of the work was done by the individual
representing himself as a business, so the payment should go to the
business. My first choice would be to write the check to the business
per business letterhead, second to write the personal check but send the
1099.

I pay my SE taxes, da--'d if I'm going to abet someone else in escaping
their obligations...

--

Toller wrote:
"Tube Audio" wrote in message
t...
Hello



I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a
bill. The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink
make check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the
company.



I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.



The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so
I want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and
my neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business
or to the owner?
Well, if you made a check out to my company name I couldn't cash it because
I don't have a bank account in my company name. I suppose I would pay less
taxes in that case, since I would not have been paid; though I would have to
sue you.

Bad practice --

Why not avoid all that and just pay him?

See my reasoning in other response for why I'd choose the same way.
That you're not professional enough to run a business isn't my concern.
If you're going to represent yourself as a business, I'm going to deal
with the business. If you want to deal as an individual, come and
represent yourself that way to me and I'll send a 1099 at year end.

I did just get a company credit card; I thought that was pretty cool.

Fee for that probably costs more than the checking account would...

On Jun 20, 9:49 am, dpb wrote:

So they're a sole proprietorship dba "XYZ Construction" -- why ask for
the check made to them personally when if they're paying business taxes
it's all on their 1040? (Simple answer -- to avoid paying SE tax FICA
and possibly state/local sales taxes as well depending on locality).

I'm w/ the basic tenet of the work was done by the individual
representing himself as a business, so the payment should go to the
business. My first choice would be to write the check to the business
per business letterhead, second to write the personal check but send the
1099.

I pay my SE taxes, da--'d if I'm going to abet someone else in escaping
their obligations...

Hell, why stop there? Just because the guy completed work to your
satisfaction, why should you pay him at all? There are plenty of ways
to beat up on a small contractor, which this guy obviously is, so why
not go the whole enchilada? It was smart to make sure all of the work
was completed before asking any questions and clarifying your
agreement - that way you can claim ignorance and sleep at night.
Nifong him entirely - report him to the IRS and see if you can collect
some blood money for turning him in.

The time to clarify _all_ business arrangements is _before_ the guy
starts work. If you have a problem paying to an individual, then say
so before entering into a contract.

BTW, we know exactly zilch about the OP's situation and even less
about the contractor's. So what's this about him "representing
himself as a business"? That's implying fraud and you have no idea,
just guesses.

You ask for insurance certificates before you let the guy start work,
right? Do you also ask for a disclosure statement and an
indemnification clause? Maybe you should start - can't be too
careful. Let me know how it goes finding all new contractors to work
with.

NB: This was half to you DPB and half to the OP. It was half
sarcastic in nature. If either of you got offended, I was talking to
the _other_ guy!

R

On Jun 20, 9:49 am, Smitty Two wrote:
"Toller" wrote:
Well, if you made a check out to my company name I couldn't cash it because
I don't have a bank account in my company name.

That's your problem, not your customer's problem.

It also sounds like you have a problem. A business agreement is a two
way street - doesn't make much sense to go half way down it before you
see the ONE WAY sign.

Talk first, sign later.

R

"dpb" wrote in message ...
See my reasoning in other response for why I'd choose the same way. That
you're not professional enough to run a business isn't my concern. If
you're going to represent yourself as a business, I'm going to deal with
the business. If you want to deal as an individual, come and represent
yourself that way to me and I'll send a 1099 at year end.


Big friggin deal. The guy has a checking account in his name. It does not
mean he is avoiding taxes at all. There are tens of thousands of small
businesses that have a DBA and it is just simpler to have the check made to
their name.

How do you "deal with a business"? Every business I've ever dealt with was
comprised of individual people and that is who I dealt with. If you'd
rather deal with an answering machine or a desk, that is up to you. It is
the integrity of those people that make a business good or bad, not a piece
of stationery with a logo.

Everyone seems to think this guy is trying to avoid taxes but it might just
be that he registered his business name, or not, and doesn't have a
corresponding bank account. It's not uncommon for someone to call there
company something and then not have all of the bank accounts and stuff in a
separate name. It would have been easier to call his company "John Smith
Contracting" though.




"Tube Audio" wrote in message
t...
Hello



I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a
bill. The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink
make check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the
company.



I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.



The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so
I want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and
my neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business
or to the owner?

In article .com,
RicodJour wrote:

On Jun 20, 9:49 am, Smitty Two wrote:
"Toller" wrote:
Well, if you made a check out to my company name I couldn't cash it
because
I don't have a bank account in my company name.

That's your problem, not your customer's problem.

It also sounds like you have a problem. A business agreement is a two
way street - doesn't make much sense to go half way down it before you
see the ONE WAY sign.

Talk first, sign later.

R

Yep, I have a problem -- with people who misrepresent themselves.

I pay cash to the woman who cuts my hair. And I write personal checks to
my mechanic. But my plumber, who is also a sole proprietor, is doing
business as Blue Mountain Plumbing, so I make checks out accordingly.

Suppose you came to me and said your name was Barney Rubble, and you did
some work and then you asked me to pay Fred Flintstone. I'd say nuts, I
hired Barney Rubble, that's who I'm paying. Is it up to the customer to
ask the contractor, in advance, as to whether he's lying about who he
is?

Careful. If he is trying to avoid sales taxes, some areas put the onus on
the customer to ensure that they are paying the taxes and theoretically
could come to you to prove you paid the tax, however unlikely.

At least you HAVE an invoice, and the invoice has a request for the check to
be paid to his name, if anyone questions you, you can pull the invoice and
prove that you paid it to the name requested on the invoice.

Most problems occur when there is no invoice and no paper trail showing the
connection between the contractor and the person you paid. You can never
prove you paid the bill.

"Tube Audio" wrote in message
t...
Hello



I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a
bill. The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink
make check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the
company.



I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.



The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so
I want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and
my neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business
or to the owner?

Careful. If he is trying to avoid sales taxes, some areas put the onus on
the customer to ensure that they are paying the taxes and theoretically

I'd love to see where this is written

wite the check out to the company name ... don't say anything about it to
him.
if he brings up the issue, then he will have to either tell you why or try
to BS his way around it.
If he owns the company, there is no reason that he can't deposit the check.
If he doesn't own the company, he should get his money from them, not you.



"Tube Audio" wrote in message
t...
Hello



I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a
bill. The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink
make check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the
company.



I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.



The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so
I want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and
my neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business
or to the owner?

On Jun 20, 12:19 pm, "longshot" wrote:
Careful. If he is trying to avoid sales taxes, some areas put the onus on
the customer to ensure that they are paying the taxes and theoretically

I'd love to see where this is written

Unfortunately that love will go unrequited. The onus is always on the
contractor to collect he tax.

In NY we have Certificates of Capital Improvements, which, when
properly filled out and signed by both parties, absolves the
contractor from having to collect tax. There are definite requirement
about what constitutes a capital improvement, and does not require the
payment of tax, and repairs, which do.

Note to the OP: Call your contractor and ask if you paid tax on that
$800 of work. If not, please remit the tax you owe immediately.

R

RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 20, 9:49 am, dpb wrote:
So they're a sole proprietorship dba "XYZ Construction" -- why ask for
the check made to them personally when if they're paying business taxes
it's all on their 1040? (Simple answer -- to avoid paying SE tax FICA
and possibly state/local sales taxes as well depending on locality).

I'm w/ the basic tenet of the work was done by the individual
representing himself as a business, so the payment should go to the
business. My first choice would be to write the check to the business
per business letterhead, second to write the personal check but send the
1099.

I pay my SE taxes, da--'d if I'm going to abet someone else in escaping
their obligations...

Hell, why stop there? Just because the guy completed work to your
satisfaction, why should you pay him at all? There are plenty of ways
to beat up on a small contractor, which this guy obviously is, so why
not go the whole enchilada? It was smart to make sure all of the work
was completed before asking any questions and clarifying your
agreement - that way you can claim ignorance and sleep at night.
Nifong him entirely - report him to the IRS and see if you can collect
some blood money for turning him in.

The time to clarify _all_ business arrangements is _before_ the guy
starts work. If you have a problem paying to an individual, then say
so before entering into a contract.

BTW, we know exactly zilch about the OP's situation and even less
about the contractor's. So what's this about him "representing
himself as a business"? That's implying fraud and you have no idea,
just guesses.

Not from OP's initial post I don't think there's a question he presents
himself as a business since his invoice had a business letterhead and
the request for personal payment was _handwritten_ at the bottom. I
would therefore expect him to _be_ a business as that represents...

....

NB: This was half to you DPB and half to the OP. It was half
sarcastic in nature. If either of you got offended, I was talking to
the _other_ guy!


I get three halves out of that...

You're entitled to your opinion, but I am also self-employed and have to
deal w/ all it entails so I don't think it all unreasonable to expect
others to do the same...

--

On Jun 20, 12:33 pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 20, 12:19 pm, "longshot" wrote:

Careful. If he is trying to avoid sales taxes, some areas put the onus on
the customer to ensure that they are paying the taxes and theoretically

I'd love to see where this is written

Unfortunately that love will go unrequited. The onus is always on the
contractor to collect he tax.

In NY we have Certificates of Capital Improvements, which, when
properly filled out and signed by both parties, absolves the
contractor from having to collect tax. There are definite requirement
about what constitutes a capital improvement, and does not require the
payment of tax, and repairs, which do.

Note to the OP: Call your contractor and ask if you paid tax on that
$800 of work. If not, please remit the tax you owe immediately.

R

In NYS, you would also not owe sales tax if it is a service, not a
product. If you buy roses for your yard, you pay sales tax on it. If
you hire a landscaper to plant them, but not to provide any physical
things, then it is a service and there is no sales tax. If you pay
the landscaper to provide the flowers AND plant them, then you owe
sales tax on both the flowers and the labor.

However, in either case if the "sale" is over some number (I think
$600) and you are paying an individual, you need to issue a 1099.

Rico might know more about this than I do, but there might also be
differences in insurance coverage for workers comp., disability,
liability, etc. etc.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
See my reasoning in other response for why I'd choose the same way. That
you're not professional enough to run a business isn't my concern. If
you're going to represent yourself as a business, I'm going to deal with
the business. If you want to deal as an individual, come and represent
yourself that way to me and I'll send a 1099 at year end.


Big friggin deal. The guy has a checking account in his name. It does not
mean he is avoiding taxes at all. There are tens of thousands of small
businesses that have a DBA and it is just simpler to have the check made to
their name.

How do you "deal with a business"? Every business I've ever dealt with was
comprised of individual people and that is who I dealt with. If you'd
rather deal with an answering machine or a desk, that is up to you. It is
the integrity of those people that make a business good or bad, not a piece
of stationery with a logo.

Having a invoice w/ a business name and handwriting a request for a
check made to an individual doesn't seem like high integrity to me.

But, that's me and how I run my own business...ymmv.

--

On Jun 20, 12:39 pm, dpb wrote:

I don't think there's a question he presents
himself as a business since his invoice had a business letterhead and
the request for personal payment was _handwritten_ at the bottom. I
would therefore expect him to _be_ a business as that represents...

Again, whether the contractor is a legitimate business of not should
have been addressed before anything was signed. After the fact is no
time to be guessing. That's the sort of thing that scummy lawyers do
when they're trying to avoid paying a contractor.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I am also self-employed and have to
deal w/ all it entails so I don't think it all unreasonable to expect
others to do the same...

Wait a minute there, Hoss! You want an opinion _different_ than
mine?! That's gonna cost ya extry!

I am not thrilled with how this thing sounds as it appears that
communication was lacking on both sides. The OP should have
communicated his situation and his concerns about having a tidy
package in case it goes to court. The contractor should have made the
request for payment to himself personally before the contract was
signed. That allows either party to make their objections known
beforehand and back out if it doesn't work for them.

The OP would not be exposing himself by writing a check to either the
individual or the the company name. If the contractor is licensed and
insured, and conforms to the requirements in the OP's area for doing
business as a contractor, it won't matter to a court of law that's
dealing with the dispute with the neighbor, and that's what the OP is
asking about.

If the contractor did back-end the request for payment to him
personally, I'd ask him why. I would not be threatened by it, but I'd
make it _very_ clear that if you want something from me, ask me up
front or don't expect to get it.

R

Your contract was with the company, not the owner of the company. They are
totally different entities.

Make the check out to the company. That way there can never be any argument
as to your payment. All he has to do is to endorse the company check over to
himself, or to "Cash", and cash it or deposit it in whatever bank a/c he
likes.

No problem

--
Walter
www.rationality.net
-
"Tube Audio" wrote in message
t...
Hello



I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a
bill. The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink
make check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the
company.



I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.



The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so
I want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and
my neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business
or to the owner?




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 20, 12:39 pm, dpb wrote:
I don't think there's a question he presents
himself as a business since his invoice had a business letterhead and
the request for personal payment was _handwritten_ at the bottom. I
would therefore expect him to _be_ a business as that represents...

Again, whether the contractor is a legitimate business of not should
have been addressed before anything was signed.

We don't know what went on before the invoice arrived. I'm assuming
(and I admit it is an assumption) that since the invoice had a business
letterhead the guy had a proposal submittal form that would also include
the letterhead and probably a business card w/ it printed on it as well.
Again, assumption, but I think probably a pretty good one that the guy
wants to _look_ like he's a well-established business for the perceived
advantage of getting work but seems to want to keep books under the table...

Again, my opinion based on the post.

....

You're entitled to your opinion, but I am also self-employed and have to
deal w/ all it entails so I don't think it all unreasonable to expect
others to do the same...

Wait a minute there, Hoss! You want an opinion _different_ than
mine?! That's gonna cost ya extry!

I pays me monies, I takes me chances...


I am not thrilled with how this thing sounds as it appears that
communication was lacking on both sides. The OP should have
communicated his situation and his concerns about having a tidy
package in case it goes to court. The contractor should have made the
request for payment to himself personally before the contract was
signed. That allows either party to make their objections known
beforehand and back out if it doesn't work for them.

I tend to agree although it certainly sounds to me like the OP has the
whole package he would want other than his canceled check wouldn't show
the contractor's business on it in consonance w/ the invoice and
proposal if he wrote it as personal. I don't see how that would really
matter, either, if push came to shove, but I was only commenting on the
desire for the payment to not reflect the business as expressed by the
contractor in apparent conflict w/ how else he was doing business, not
the rest of it which I agree is a tempest in a teapot (which seems to
have been a pet phrase of mine the last couple of days )...

Again, imo, ymmv, $0.02, etc., etc., ...

--

The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name
as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor
so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or
to
the owner?

I'm going to disagree with other respondents, here. If it were me, I'd
make the check out to the company. The owner may be trying to avoid
taxes or he may be trying to simplify bookkeeping or he may even be
doing business under a fictitious name without having made it all nice
and legal. Whatever the reason, it sounds unprofessional at best. It is
my (apparently unpopular) opinion that no reputable business asks checks
to be made out to the owner.

I agree. If I contracted with a contractors firm I'll bet the permit was
pulled on the firm name. If you give a check made out to cash or to him
personally, what would stop him from filing a lien against you for
non-payment of the work done on the permit? If you pointed to the check you
gave him he could say it was for something personal. He could also file a
mechanics lien on the house without you knowing or realizing it till you
went to sell the house. If he still insists, I would insist on a discount.
He's saving money on taxes, I would want to save too. I'd also ask for a
receipt showing payment in full referencing that check. Too many people have
been burned by unethical contractors making the legitimate ones suffer.

Phisherman wrote in message
...

Make it payable to their request. A lot of businesses have checks
made out to the owner. Dentist is one example. More power to them
if they can avoid taxes and never get caught.

I never made a check out to a dentist that I didn't put Dr. on it.

Cheri

Tube Audio wrote in message
.. .
Hello



I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got
a bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink
make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the
company.



I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.



The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's
name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a
neighbor so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me
and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business
or to
the owner?

Make it out to John Smith and then put the companies business name in
the Memo. That's what I would do.

Cheri

Cheri wrote:
Phisherman wrote in message
...

Make it payable to their request. A lot of businesses have checks
made out to the owner. Dentist is one example. More power to them
if they can avoid taxes and never get caught.

I never made a check out to a dentist that I didn't put Dr. on it.


That's because that's how most individual dentists list themselves
professionally and do business under that name. At one time I went to a
consortium and they collected all payments under the name of the consortium.

--

On Jun 20, 3:26 pm, dpb wrote:
Cheri wrote:
Phisherman wrote in message
...

Make it payable to their request. A lot of businesses have checks
made out to the owner. Dentist is one example. More power to them
if they can avoid taxes and never get caught.

I never made a check out to a dentist that I didn't put Dr. on it.

That's because that's how most individual dentists list themselves
professionally and do business under that name. At one time I went to a
consortium and they collected all payments under the name of the consortium.

Let's flip this around. I'm sure you've received checks from
customers/clients/friends that were drawn on their business' account,
and whatever the transaction was, it wasn't a "real" business
expense. Do you refuse the check? Do you get all huffy because
they're looking for a deduction?

R

I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.

I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.

The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or to
the owner?

Hmm. A couple of ways to go on this.

You could call him and say that if he wants this to be off the books,
then offer me a substantial discount.

Is that how you operate? The contractor completes the work to your
satisfaction, then you try to back-end in a discount by squeezing the
guy?
Only if he tries to get me to poay him off the books. Fair is fair.

RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:26 pm, dpb wrote:
Cheri wrote:
Phisherman wrote in message
...
Make it payable to their request. A lot of businesses have checks
made out to the owner. Dentist is one example. More power to them
if they can avoid taxes and never get caught.
I never made a check out to a dentist that I didn't put Dr. on it.
That's because that's how most individual dentists list themselves
professionally and do business under that name. At one time I went to a
consortium and they collected all payments under the name of the consortium.

Let's flip this around. I'm sure you've received checks from
customers/clients/friends that were drawn on their business' account,
and whatever the transaction was, it wasn't a "real" business
expense. Do you refuse the check? Do you get all huffy because
they're looking for a deduction?

I fail to see the connection to the situation to which I responded to
Cheri w/ the subject of "receiving" vis a vis "writing" but so be it.

You may be "sure" that has happened, but I honestly can't think of an
occasion/incident.

Don't know why you're so intent on riding me on this unless it's to
assuage your own conscience, but I stated what I would do on the
question of _writing_ the check and my reasons therefore.

That we have a difference of opinion seems apparent and further jousting
pointless (and futile)...

--

Abe wrote:
I hired a contractor to do some work, the work is complete and I got a bill.
The amount is $800. On the invoice at the bottom they wrote in ink make
check payable to "john smith", the owner. Not the name of the company.

I guess they are doing this to avoid taxes.

The issue is, I would like to make the check out to the business's name as
this work involved a permit and was done over a dispute with a neighbor so I
want a record incase there are any further legal issues between me and my
neighbor. Should I just make the check out to the companies business or to
the owner?

Hmm. A couple of ways to go on this.

You could call him and say that if he wants this to be off the books,
then offer me a substantial discount.

Is that how you operate? The contractor completes the work to your
satisfaction, then you try to back-end in a discount by squeezing the
guy?

Only if he tries to get me to poay him off the books. Fair is fair.

And I agree, because avoiding paying his fair share of income taxes
means the hohorable tax payers have to pay more than their fair share.

I think anyone stupid enough to either brag about their cheating on
taxes or who asks for payment in a way which makes you suspect he is
doing so.....deserves any "dissing" he gets.

It might not just be taxes though, perhaps he's got judgements against
his business for not paying bills and is trying to avoid having your
payment grabbed for those.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

RicodJour wrote:

On Jun 20, 3:26 pm, dpb wrote:

Cheri wrote:

Phisherman wrote in message
. ..

Make it payable to their request. A lot of businesses have checks
made out to the owner. Dentist is one example. More power to them
if they can avoid taxes and never get caught.

I never made a check out to a dentist that I didn't put Dr. on it.

That's because that's how most individual dentists list themselves
professionally and do business under that name. At one time I went to a
consortium and they collected all payments under the name of the consortium.


Let's flip this around. I'm sure you've received checks from
customers/clients/friends that were drawn on their business' account,
and whatever the transaction was, it wasn't a "real" business
expense. Do you refuse the check? Do you get all huffy because
they're looking for a deduction?

R



The sign on my office wall reads:

"There is no right way to do the wrong thing"

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

"Walter R." wrote in message
...
Your contract was with the company, not the owner of the company. They are
totally different entities.

Make the check out to the company. That way there can never be any
argument as to your payment. All he has to do is to endorse the company
check over to himself, or to "Cash", and cash it or deposit it in whatever
bank a/c he likes.

No problem

How do you know there was a contract with the company?

You are making as assumption. The OP mentioned the INVOICE had a company
name, not on a contract. It may have been a verbal agreement to that point.

Pay in cash, get a receipt.