Water heater failed. The last time I replaced it myself, but I had a
tremendous problem getting the old one out of the basement.

I know I should call them first, but I have to disconnect the computer
to call them. So, if you don't mind....

A) Do stores only remove the old one if they actually install the new
one, or would it be enough if I had totally disconnected the old one
before they got here?

B) Do delivery men have some special clever way to get the old heavy
one out? Or is it just that there are two of them, or that they are
strong? (It was easy for me to take the wh from the store and down
into the basement. The only problem I had last time was getting it up
the stairs, which also turn 180 degrees at a landing. With just me
and someone a lot smaller than I am.)


Today I found the water spraying out** from behind the plastic
escutcheon around the drain valve on my Sears electric water heater.

**in many, but not all directions. Maybe 180 degrees of the circle
had water spraying from it.

Out of curiosity, do you think this is this an unusual problem, or
just a variation on the usual leaking wh?


BTW, the plastic pan I put under the heater helped a lot. But because
it was spraying and not dribbling or coming out of the T&P valve and
down the tube, it certainly didn't catch everything. Last time my wh
dribbled when it leaked.

mm wrote:

Water heater failed. The last time I replaced it myself, but I had a
tremendous problem getting the old one out of the basement.

I know I should call them first, but I have to disconnect the computer
to call them. So, if you don't mind....

A) Do stores only remove the old one if they actually install the new
one, or would it be enough if I had totally disconnected the old one
before they got here?

B) Do delivery men have some special clever way to get the old heavy
one out? Or is it just that there are two of them, or that they are
strong? (It was easy for me to take the wh from the store and down
into the basement. The only problem I had last time was getting it up
the stairs, which also turn 180 degrees at a landing. With just me
and someone a lot smaller than I am.)


Today I found the water spraying out** from behind the plastic
escutcheon around the drain valve on my Sears electric water heater.

**in many, but not all directions. Maybe 180 degrees of the circle
had water spraying from it.

Out of curiosity, do you think this is this an unusual problem, or
just a variation on the usual leaking wh?


BTW, the plastic pan I put under the heater helped a lot. But because
it was spraying and not dribbling or coming out of the T&P valve and
down the tube, it certainly didn't catch everything. Last time my wh
dribbled when it leaked.


You have to negotiate with the installer (whoever)
over taking out the old tank. And whether they dump it
at your curb or actually take it away.

In some cities, a heater on the curb will trigger an
inspection. (!)

A 2-wheel dolly/handtruck makes carrying loads up
the stairs easier.

-------
Back to the spraying.
If the valve itself is plastic body, the body may have
fractured. This was very common some years back.
In that event, there is nothing wrong with the tank.

To replace the valve may involve sawing *lengthwise*
thru the valve and then chopping out or (maybe)
unscrewing it.

Jim

Speedy Jim wrote:
mm wrote:

Water heater failed. The last time I replaced it myself, but I had a
tremendous problem getting the old one out of the basement.
[...]
Today I found the water spraying out** from behind the plastic
escutcheon around the drain valve on my Sears electric water heater.

**in many, but not all directions. Maybe 180 degrees of the circle
had water spraying from it.

Out of curiosity, do you think this is this an unusual problem, or
just a variation on the usual leaking wh?


BTW, the plastic pan I put under the heater helped a lot. But because
it was spraying and not dribbling or coming out of the T&P valve and
down the tube, it certainly didn't catch everything. Last time my wh
dribbled when it leaked.


You have to negotiate with the installer (whoever)
over taking out the old tank. And whether they dump it
at your curb or actually take it away.

In some cities, a heater on the curb will trigger an
inspection. (!)

A 2-wheel dolly/handtruck makes carrying loads up
the stairs easier.

-------
Back to the spraying.
If the valve itself is plastic body, the body may have
fractured. This was very common some years back.
In that event, there is nothing wrong with the tank.

To replace the valve may involve sawing *lengthwise*
thru the valve and then chopping out or (maybe)
unscrewing it.

Jim

Jim's right, it will depend upon your area. But I second his idea of
checking the drain valve for a cracked body. Replacing the drain
valve will be a lot cheaper and easier than replacing the whole
tank. It should take less than an hour to be sure before you commit
to a new tank. Just turn off the water to the tank, and drain it
out. Then see if you can unscrew the valve body off and inspect it.
Replace it with a nipple, ball valve, hose bib combination if it
appears to be the culprit.
--
Grandpa

On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:42:00 GMT, Grandpa wrote:


A 2-wheel dolly/handtruck makes carrying loads up
the stairs easier.

Duh. (Slaps foreheat) Better answer about this to folow later.

-------
Back to the spraying.
If the valve itself is plastic body, the body may have
fractured. This was very common some years back.
In that event, there is nothing wrong with the tank.

To replace the valve may involve sawing *lengthwise*
thru the valve and then chopping out or (maybe)
unscrewing it.

Jim

Jim's right, it will depend upon your area. But I second his idea of
checking the drain valve for a cracked body. Replacing the drain
valve will be a lot cheaper and easier than replacing the whole
tank. It should take less than an hour to be sure before you commit

Oh, gosh yes, it sounds much easier. If it works, I'll be very
grateful to both of you.

I've got the cold water on again, and I'll be taking sponge baths from
the stove or microwave, or going to someone else's to clean up for a
few days, but I'll get back with a followup.

to a new tank. Just turn off the water to the tank, and drain it
out. Then see if you can unscrew the valve body off and inspect it.
Replace it with a nipple, ball valve, hose bib combination if it
appears to be the culprit.
--
Grandpa

On Apr 2, 5:36�pm, mm wrote:
On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:42:00 GMT, Grandpa wrote:

* A 2-wheel dolly/handtruck makes carrying loads up
the stairs easier.

Duh. *(Slaps foreheat) * Better answer about this to folow later.







-------
Back to the spraying.
If the valve itself is plastic body, the body may have
fractured. *This was very common some years back.
In that event, there is nothing wrong with the tank.

To replace the valve may involve sawing *lengthwise*
thru the valve and then chopping out or (maybe)
unscrewing it.

Jim

Jim's right, it will depend upon your area. But I second his idea of
checking the drain valve for a cracked body. Replacing the drain
valve will be a lot cheaper and easier than replacing the whole
tank. It should take less than an hour to be sure before you commit

Oh, gosh yes, it sounds much easier. *If it works, I'll be very
grateful to both of you.

I've got the cold water on again, and I'll be taking sponge baths from
the stove or microwave, or going to someone else's to clean up for a
few days, but I'll get back with a followup.



to a new tank. Just turn off the water to the tank, and drain it
out. Then see if you can unscrew the valve body off and inspect it.
Replace it with a nipple, ball valve, hose bib combination if it
appears to be the culprit.
--
Grandpa- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if the fitting split then replace it,

if its lkeaking at the fittings the tank is failing, just replace it.

in pennsylvania theres a 7% sales tax on cash and carry

have installed no sales tax.

with your situation might be easier to get installed,rovides muscular
guys for removal.

On 2 Apr 2007 14:49:31 -0700, "
wrote:



if the fitting split then replace it,

All that follows assumes the valve is not the problem and I have to
replace the tank.

if its lkeaking at the fittings the tank is failing, just replace it.

in pennsylvania theres a 7% sales tax on cash and carry

have installed no sales tax.

I read this last night -- thank you -- and then forgot to ask when I
called this morning. Dang.

So I asked other questions and Sears charges 239 for installation, and
removal of the old one is free. But if you don't get installation,
they won't even deliver it! I guess because it is the installer who
does the delivery.

Plus a 22 dollar permit charge in Baltimore Co. and she thought maybe
I need an expansion tank for 80 dollars (although none of the problems
mentioned here have I had.)

Plus there was an added fee of course for a pan underneath, but I
already have one so no fee. That is just the kind of reason I like to
do this stuff myself. I put in extra time to get the length jussst
right, so the pan was just where it should be, and to run a pipe to
the sump, with a right hand turn, behind a warddrobe and file cabinet
full of stuff, and had I had this installed last tiem, I can't imagine
anyone but me -- well would they even connect the pan to the sump or
would that be up to me -- and because of the warddrobe and file
cabinet it would be almost impossible to do when the water heater was
in place.

with your situation might be easier to get installed,rovides muscular
guys for removal.

I'm going to find the thread about cutting the old one in half, and
scooping out the sediment.

On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:22:12 -0400, mm
wrote:

Water heater failed. The last time I replaced it myself, but I had a
tremendous problem getting the old one out of the basement.

blah blah.

Interesting things I learned last night on the web. I got Sears last
time, because the distance between the pipes was the same as the
original and I thought that would make it much easier to install. I
didn't want the zigzag pipes I once saw. But now I realize I should
have shortened or lengthened the horizontal pipe at the ceiling and
there would have been no zigzag. Or course I had never sweated pipe
before, let alone next to wood, so maybe I made the right choice.


This post is just to express surprise at the price structure.

I looked at the Sears webpage last night

So this time Sears doesn't have 52 but they have 55, which is 130
pounds. And they have 66 gallons, which for some reason is 175
pounds. 20% more capacity, but 33% heavier. Usually it is the other
way around, That making something which is empty inside, it only
takes a little more weight to make the capacity much more.


Another interesting thing is that it only costs 10 dollars to go from
a 9 year guarantee to a 12 year guarantee, and that includes 3 inches
of insulation instead of just 2 1/2, with an R-value of 24 instead of
20. It uses foam insulation which is light, and the better one only
weighs 3 more pounds.

And the better one costs only 20 dollars more for the 55 gallon, and
10 dollars more for the 66 gallon.

But the price difference from 55 to 66 gallons is 310 to 430, or 330
to 440. Now we're talking about a 33% increase in price for a 17
percent increase in volume. That's a greater discrepancy than the
weight to volume discrepancy.

But otoh, if you ignore capacity and compare price to weight, 330 to
440 dollars is almost exactly the same as 130 to 175 pounds. So maybe
that accounts for price, if they are charging by the pound, but why is
the weight difference so great?

And the tank is the same height, and only 1.5 inches more in diameter,
so what about it weighs so much more?




IIRC, people here recommended a big tank.

P.S. Last time I bought 52 gallons. The house was built with 80
gallons. For 3 bedrooms. Isn't that incredibly unusual, especially in
a low priced home? It is so big Sears, doesn't stock it, and I think
Lowes and HD have nothing on display that is bigger than 40 gallons.
Surely one person shouldn't need even 66 gallons, but it apparently
costs no more to run it, according to the Sears specs, and because I
take baths, I've actually run out of hot water with 52 gallons.
(although I could have solved that by making the water hotter.)
Sears doesn't even sell an 80 gallon tank now, and AOSmith, who made
the 80 gallon tank, doesn't seem to sell retail, but I'm curious and I
found on the web the number for a local plumbing supply, that I will
call.

On Apr 3, 12:04�pm, mm wrote:
On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:22:12 -0400, mm
wrote:

Water heater failed. The last time I replaced it myself, but I had a
tremendous problem getting the old one out of the basement.

blah blah. *

Interesting things I learned last night on the web. *I got Sears last
time, because the distance between the pipes was the same as the
original and I thought that would make it much easier to install. *I
didn't want the zigzag pipes I once saw. *But now I realize I should
have shortened or lengthened the horizontal pipe at the ceiling and
there would have been no zigzag. *Or course I had never sweated pipe
before, let alone next to wood, so maybe I made the right choice.

This post is just to express surprise at the price structure.

I looked at the Sears webpage last night

So this time Sears doesn't have 52 but they have 55, which is 130
pounds. *And they have 66 gallons, which for some reason is 175
pounds. *20% more capacity, but 33% heavier. *Usually it is the other
way around, * That making something which is empty inside, it only
takes a little more weight to make the capacity much more.

Another interesting thing is that it only costs 10 dollars to go from
a 9 year guarantee to a 12 year guarantee, and that includes 3 inches
of insulation instead of just 2 1/2, with an R-value of 24 instead of
20. *It uses foam insulation which is light, and the better one only
weighs 3 more pounds.

And the better one costs only 20 dollars more for the 55 gallon, and
10 dollars more for the 66 gallon.

But the price difference from 55 to 66 gallons is 310 to 430, or 330
to 440. * Now we're talking about a 33% increase in price for a 17
percent increase in volume. *That's a greater discrepancy than the
weight to volume discrepancy.

But otoh, if you ignore capacity and compare price to weight, 330 to
440 dollars is almost exactly the same as 130 to 175 pounds. *So maybe
that accounts for price, if they are charging by the pound, but why is
the weight difference so great?

And the tank is the same height, and only 1.5 inches more in diameter,
so what about it weighs so much more?

IIRC, people here recommended a big tank.

P.S. Last time I bought 52 gallons. *The house was built with 80
gallons. For 3 bedrooms. Isn't that incredibly unusual, especially in
a low priced home? * It is so big Sears, doesn't stock it, and I think
Lowes and HD have nothing on display that is bigger than 40 gallons.
Surely one person shouldn't need even 66 gallons, but it apparently
costs no more to run it, according to the Sears specs, and because I
take baths, I've actually run out of hot water with 52 gallons.
(although I could have solved that by making the water hotter.)
Sears doesn't even sell an 80 gallon tank now, and AOSmith, who made
the 80 gallon tank, doesn't seem to sell retail, but I'm curious and I
found on the web the number for a local plumbing supply, that I will
call.

BIGGER IS ALWAYS BETTER! Heck it costs a bit more but never run out
has nice advantages

If Gas look for 75,000 BTU standard tanks are 35,000 BTU or less. I
went from a 40 gallon 34,000 BTU to a 50 gallon 75,000 BTU tank and
doubled my first hour capacity.

Home depot and lowes generally have larger tanks either in stock or at
the warehouse for next day delivery.

Cutting a tank apart to remove from area, well just try it sometime:
( itchy fiberglass, sharp tin outer covering, messy dirty water,
awkard job. been there done that never again stuff doesnt unscrew
after all those years, then its a hazard from garbage guys to pick up
lots of razor sharp edges.....

I buy the longest warranty biggest tank.

small tank has larger thermal stress when going from hot to empty.

large tank tends to float along...... easier on tank in my opinion.

the more expensive tanks have foam insulation, and often brass rather
than plastic drain valves. sometimes you get what you pay for

On 3 Apr 2007 10:29:29 -0700, "
wrote:


Home depot and lowes generally have larger tanks either in stock or at
the warehouse for next day delivery.

The wonderful HD website has 4 water heaters, 4 gallons, 2.5 gallons,
one that is tankless, and one that is a mini-tank. I want 65, and
they don't even have 5!

When I said just 'water heater', I still only got 4 heaters, but only
two of them were the same. I wouldn't know how to write computer
code this bad if I tried.

And their pages are full of advertising and photos of guys in uniform
that has nothing to do with what I'm searching for. A misting system
on a Greek style veranda that has nothing to do with water heaters.

Like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...o.0&MI D=9876
What a waste.

When will I learn not to waste my time on their website.

mm wrote:
On 3 Apr 2007 10:29:29 -0700, "
wrote:

Home depot and lowes generally have larger tanks either in stock or at
the warehouse for next day delivery.

The wonderful HD website has 4 water heaters, 4 gallons, 2.5 gallons,
one that is tankless, and one that is a mini-tank. I want 65, and
they don't even have 5!
[...]

When will I learn not to waste my time on their website.

So, look at Lowes then. Was just at my local Lowes today, and they
had a large variety of tanks for sale. BTW, HD also has tanks in
stock that aren't listed on their website.
--
Grandpa

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:34:39 GMT, Grandpa wrote:



So, look at Lowes then. Was just at my local Lowes today, and they
had a large variety of tanks for sale. BTW, HD also has tanks in
stock that aren't listed on their website.

I'm sure they do, but I don't think they have bigger than 50 at the
store, and they don't have them on the website, so I'll have to go
there and find someone to tell me about them. That's my least
favorite thing.

Grandpa