I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

What I know is that

1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

5) What about a warranty deed?

6) Do I have to go to local agencies to inform them that I am the
owner? Do I have to sign papers with them?

7) How can I find out if unpaid taxes or lien or other stuff is on the
property? And do I need an insurance against that too?

Did I forget something?

Joe

P.S. Thanks for the answers to the other thread with the noise
reduction. Some gave good advice.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

What I know is that

1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

5) What about a warranty deed?

6) Do I have to go to local agencies to inform them that I am the
owner? Do I have to sign papers with them?

7) How can I find out if unpaid taxes or lien or other stuff is on the
property? And do I need an insurance against that too?

Did I forget something?

Joe

P.S. Thanks for the answers to the other thread with the noise
reduction. Some gave good advice.


Because you are asking all these questions, you have established one or both
of the following:

- You are not asking your real estate agent any or enough questions. Any RE
person who can't answer most/all of the questions is incompetent, and you
need to find another one.

- You need to ask 10 friends and/or coworkers which lawyer they used for
their home purchase, and assuming at least one person says "Yeah - I liked
the lawyer who helped me", you hire that lawyer. Prices will vary, but in
upstate NY, the lawyer charged $400.00 for everything involved with my home
purchase.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

What I know is that

1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

5) What about a warranty deed?

6) Do I have to go to local agencies to inform them that I am the
owner? Do I have to sign papers with them?

7) How can I find out if unpaid taxes or lien or other stuff is on the
property? And do I need an insurance against that too?

Did I forget something?

Joe

P.S. Thanks for the answers to the other thread with the noise
reduction. Some gave good advice.

You need a real estate lawyer and a mortgage banker. The two of them will do
all the work. You'll just show up and sign papers (and checks!) at the
closing.

wrote in message
oups.com...
|I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
| a house before.
|
| The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
| know.

he is sly and works for the seller

|
| What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

make sure the realtor makes your 1st offer known to the seller.
they tend to negotiate for their own pockets.


|
| What I know is that
|
| 1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
| installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

receipt for deposit...........always.
it will be taken into consideration at the closing.


|
| 2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
| purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

sign P&S Agreement contingent on a home and pest inspection.


|
| 3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

depends on the circumstances.


|
| 4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
| purchase the house?
| 5) What about a warranty deed?
|
| 6) Do I have to go to local agencies to inform them that I am the
| owner? Do I have to sign papers with them?
|
| 7) How can I find out if unpaid taxes or lien or other stuff is on the
| property? And do I need an insurance against that too?
|
| Did I forget something?

hire a lawyer


|
| Joe
|
| P.S. Thanks for the answers to the other thread with the noise
| reduction. Some gave good advice.
|

On Mar 25, 12:05 am, wrote:
I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

What I know is that

1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

5) What about a warranty deed?

6) Do I have to go to local agencies to inform them that I am the
owner? Do I have to sign papers with them?

7) How can I find out if unpaid taxes or lien or other stuff is on the
property? And do I need an insurance against that too?

Did I forget something?

Joe

P.S. Thanks for the answers to the other thread with the noise
reduction. Some gave good advice.


Others have given good advice on mortgage broker and lawyer, but, I
would add that you might want a separate property inspection to see
what it might cost you to fix house that is "not in the best shape."
Otherwise you could be buying a money pit.

Frank

On 24 Mar 2007 22:05:12 -0700, wrote:

I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

What I know is that

1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

Your contact is the real estate agent. He will explain all the
paperwork and procedures.


2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

Legally, you take possession of the house immediately following the
closing. Unless you pay for it in full the lender legally owns the
house until your mortgage is paid. You and the seller can put
whatever you want in the purchase agreement--the real estate lawyer
makes sure everything is legal. Papers are signed at the closing.
This is where real estate agent, seller, owner, lending agency, and
lawyer are present. Each state has slightly different laws.

3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

Ask him. I brought my (cashiers) check to the closing.


4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

Maybe. I didn't feel like paying $1000.


5) What about a warranty deed?


You get that if you buy from a builder (new construction). Usually
there are no warranties for a used house.

6) Do I have to go to local agencies to inform them that I am the
owner? Do I have to sign papers with them?


No. In fact, I asked my real estate agent to keep my sale private if
possible.

7) How can I find out if unpaid taxes or lien or other stuff is on the
property? And do I need an insurance against that too?


The lawyer does the checking.

Did I forget something?

Termite inspection. House inspection is a good thing. A house will
require lots of money and buying things you never thought you would
have to buy; be prepared.

If you pay under 20% down you need to pay yearly mortgage insurance.
Avoid it--why pay an extra $1000 per year?


Joe

P.S. Thanks for the answers to the other thread with the noise
reduction. Some gave good advice.

wrote:
I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

What I know is that

1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

5) What about a warranty deed?

6) Do I have to go to local agencies to inform them that I am the
owner? Do I have to sign papers with them?

7) How can I find out if unpaid taxes or lien or other stuff is on the
property? And do I need an insurance against that too?

Did I forget something?

Joe

P.S. Thanks for the answers to the other thread with the noise
reduction. Some gave good advice.


If the house is "not in the best of shape" I would get a *good* home
inspector out to look at the house. Get your realtor to structure your
offer so that it allows you room to renegotiate and/or back out of the
deal if it turns out that he uncovers some issues of which you were not
previously aware. It sounds like you're not 100% confident in your
abilities and I don't mean that in a derogatory way, it just would be a
good idea to get some professional input so you can estimate what work
you need to do to get it in shape and estimate cost of repairs you don't
want to do yourself.

Also keep in mind that there will probably still be one or two things
that even he won't find...

good luck!

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Mar 25, 8:08 am, Phisherman wrote:
On 24 Mar 2007 22:05:12 -0700, wrote:

I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

What I know is that

1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

Your contact is the real estate agent. He will explain all the
paperwork and procedures.


Yes, the real estate agent can explain things, but I wouldn't rely on
a real estate agent, who is working for the seller, to explain
contract terms and what is or isn't in my best interest as buyer.
For that, as others have suggested, you should have a lawyer.







2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

Make sure the contract is reviewed by your lawyer BEFORE you sign it.



Legally, you take possession of the house immediately following the
closing. Unless you pay for it in full the lender legally owns the
house until your mortgage is paid.

In most parts of the US, this isn't true. The mortgage holder has a
first lien on the property, but you in fact own it. If someone slips
and falls, they are going to sue you as property owner, not the bank
holding the mortgage.


You and the seller can put
whatever you want in the purchase agreement--the real estate lawyer
makes sure everything is legal. Papers are signed at the closing.
This is where real estate agent, seller, owner, lending agency, and
lawyer are present. Each state has slightly different laws.

Beyond what is legal, it's equally important that the contract be
fair, or favorable to you as buyer. For example, you could sign a
contract with no inspection or financing contingency. Perfectly
legal, but very bad for you, if you're a typical buyer.



3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

Ask him. I brought my (cashiers) check to the closing.

Typically the closing is handled by one of the attorneys, a title
insurance company, or similar. They will tell you how much to bring
and who to make it out to.





4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

Maybe. I didn't feel like paying $1000.


If you're getting a mortgage from a lender other than the seller, then
you are definitely going to need title insurance to get the
mortgage. And I think it's foolish not to get insurance anyway. It
guarantees that you have clear title to the property. Without it,
some party you never heard of could show up years later claiming that
they have a lien or actually own the property, and the problem is
yours.





5) What about a warranty deed?

You get that if you buy from a builder (new construction). Usually
there are no warranties for a used house.

No, a warranty deed is a basic form of deed, where the seller
guarantees that he has clear title to the property being sold. It
has nothing to do with a new home warranty.



6) Do I have to go to local agencies to inform them that I am the
owner? Do I have to sign papers with them?

No. In fact, I asked my real estate agent to keep my sale private if
possible.

Hmmm, how is that possible? Everywhere I'm aware of the deed has to
be recorded. Besides recording and protecting your ownership, it
also is how govts know who is going to pay tax on the property. As
buyer, this step is normally performed by whoever handles the
closing. You don't have to do it yourself. And usually there are
some fees included in the closing to handle charges to get it
recorded.




7) How can I find out if unpaid taxes or lien or other stuff is on the
property? And do I need an insurance against that too?

The lawyer does the checking.

A title search is performed, usually by the title insurance company,
who is engaged by your lawyer. And the questions about liens,
taxes, etc is why you should have title insurance. Because if
something is missed in the search and later surfaces, with title
insurance, it becomes the title insurance company's problem to
straighten out, pay, etc. Without it, it's YOUR problem.





Did I forget something?

Termite inspection. House inspection is a good thing. A house will
require lots of money and buying things you never thought you would
have to buy; be prepared.

If you pay under 20% down you need to pay yearly mortgage insurance.
Avoid it--why pay an extra $1000 per year?

wrote

I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

I'm going to assume you're in the US.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

As someone else said, he does not work for you, he works
for the seller and is paid by the seller. You need your own
inspector to find out what needs to be fixed.

What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

What I know is that

1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

You will need more than a down payment (what you call deposit).
Things have changed since I have closed on a home, but there will
be many more fees. You need to talk to a mortgage broker and
get a truth in lending document.

If you put down less than 20% of the price of the house, you will
have to get what is called PMI, private mortgage insurance. You
can prepay that or pay for it every month.

I have never heard of anyone calling mortgage payments installments,
it makes me think you really need to find out more about house buying
before you sign anything.

You need to know what your property taxes will be. You'll have
to pay utilities. Homeowner's insurance. The mortgage company
will want some money in escrow for taxes and homeowner's insurance
payments. Can you afford all of that?

2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

You have a closing at which the house will be turned over to you.
The lawyer will tell you who to make the checks out to.

4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

The mortgage company will arrange for that before you close.
The idea is to make sure the people you are buying the house from
actually own the house and that their aren't any liens on it. You will
pay the mortgage company for that, it's one of the fees I mentioned.

5) What about a warranty deed?

Off the top of my head, I can't think what that is.

6) Do I have to go to local agencies to inform them that I am the
owner? Do I have to sign papers with them?

I don't think you have to sign anything, and the mortgage company
will have your tax bills sent directly to them. Ditto with your
homeowner's insurance bill.

7) How can I find out if unpaid taxes or lien or other stuff is on the
property? And do I need an insurance against that too?

That is title insurance.

Did I forget something?

Don't fall for those interest only mortgages, if you can't afford the
house with a regular mortgage, usually you should not be buying one.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you. Please get yourself a book
or something on buying real estate. I know Consumer Reports used
to have a good one, told you everything to look for when picking out
a house, plus the ins and outs of getting a mortgage.

nancy

On Mar 25, 8:38 am, Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

What I know is that

1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

5) What about a warranty deed?

6) Do I have to go to local agencies to inform them that I am the
owner? Do I have to sign papers with them?

7) How can I find out if unpaid taxes or lien or other stuff is on the
property? And do I need an insurance against that too?

Did I forget something?

Joe

P.S. Thanks for the answers to the other thread with the noise
reduction. Some gave good advice.

If the house is "not in the best of shape" I would get a *good* home
inspector out to look at the house. Get your realtor to structure your
offer so that it allows you room to renegotiate and/or back out of the
deal if it turns out that he uncovers some issues of which you were not
previously aware.

Very bad advice. By all appearances, the real estate agent he is
dealing with
represents the seller, not him. The agent is there to get the
property sold for the seller and earn their commission. The one who
should be structuring the purchase
agreement that spells out contigency clauses to get out of the deal
should be his lawyer, who represents his interests.





It sounds like you're not 100% confident in your
abilities and I don't mean that in a derogatory way, it just would be a
good idea to get some professional input so you can estimate what work
you need to do to get it in shape and estimate cost of repairs you don't
want to do yourself.

Also keep in mind that there will probably still be one or two things
that even he won't find...

good luck!

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 24 Mar 2007 22:05:12 -0700, wrote:

I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

If there is only one real estate guy, he represents the seller, NOT
YOU. Never forget that. You can get a buyer's agent, but I think you
need a written contract with hir to make certain that he will be
functioning as your agent, or liable for not. Not that you have to
have this, but just remember that the listing agent is the SELLER'S
AGENT, not yours.

What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

What I know is that

1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

You should never buy a house on installments. What you want is a
deed, and since you don't have enough money to pay for the whole house
at once, a mortgage. Unless that's what you mean by monthly
installments, that you are paying that to a bank or another lender to
which you give a mortgage.

Which do you mean?

I have a lot more to say depending on your answer.

When you are done with the closing, you should be the owner, and the
bank or mortgage company will have a mortgage. The borrower (which is
the buyer) is the mortgagor, and the lender (the bank, for example) is
the mortgagee.

It is even possible for the seller to take back a mortgage when he
sells, but the terms should be the same as with a bank. No seller
should do this, unless he is desperate to sell, because he's not set
up for the headache of collecting from people who don't pay well, but
somettimes they do. Even people who do pay well can be a pain, one
more check he has to collect, record, deposit, every month.

2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

Good. I was afraid you already made the arrangement you refer to
above.

The real estate agency usually has a fairly standard form, with some
blanks that need to be filled in. You don't have settle for that
form, but if not you'll have to have another one or read the thing
carefully and figure out what changes you want to that one.

At this stage, I behaved like a jackass. They had filled in 45 days,
and I wanted to settle and move in in 30 days, so the real estate
woman changed 45 to 30, but I had complained about the wrong number.
45 days was the amount of time **I** had to come up with the money,
before the contract expired. By changing it to 30, I damaged my own
interests, and indeed for some unusual reasons (but it could easily
have happened for usual reasons) I couldn't get the mortgage in 30
days, and I had to borrow the money from my brother. I don't think
many people have a fairly rich, generous, trusting brother, who
happened to have 65,000 dollars in what was basically a checking
account. Even he only had it because he was hoping to find and buy a
medical practice. I'll tell you the whole story if you want, but I'm
happy to say neither I nor my brother lost anything during it.

BTW, since there was no mortgagee, there was no one there insisting I
get title insurance or fire insurance, and somehow, when I borrowed
the money to pay back my brother, the mortgage company didn't ask
about fire insurance then either, even though I had bought it. I
don't think they knew that, but I think they just assumed assumed I'd
gotten it at the first closing.

BTW, I paid twice for tax stamps that in Maryland are proportional to
the sale price. I don't remember how much that was, and because I
ended up changing mortgage companies, I also paid another mortgage
processing fee, but because interest rates were going down at the
time,I still ended up 100's of dollars ahead, maybe more. But this
decline was fairly rapid and it's very hard to delay getting a
mortgage to get the best rate. But you can go to different banks etc.
looking for the best rate.

3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

The owner pays the commission. Although you are right that one can
negotiate a decrease in the price while the buyer might pay half of
the commission. Why if it is good for all concerned to have the buyer
pay half, it's not better for him to pay all, I don't know.

But a lender won't want to lend you the full, what 7? % in some
places, because that doesn't represent equity in the house. They
won't loan you a million dollars on a house that is worth 100
thousand, and they won't lend you 107 thousand on a house that is
worth 100 thousand.

Why the buyer would want to do this, I forget. Maybe something to do
with taxes? Maybe he woudl pay the points (7 points equals the 7%
commission that is charged in some places) because he really wants the
house and he is competing with other buyers. Why he wouldn't just
offer more money and have the seller pay the points, I don't remember.

4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

There should be a title search before you buy the house, so that the
title company is ready to sell you the insurance the same day as the
sale. When you sign the contract, someone? should arrange for the
title insurance.

Because of problems with the real estate agent (they refused to relay
my first offer to the seller, which I later found out is a violation
of law in Maryland, and maybe eeverywhere) I hired a lawyer. I got a
reference from a friend here, but I don't know how much he referrer
really knew about his work. Maybe he just did a good job for him once.
I think I asked my friend and he wasn't going merely by knowing him
socially.

But... he never mentioned title insurance, and I thought the money I
paid him would include his arranging that, or at least insuring that
it was arranged. When the purchase was over, I asked him why he
didn't. He said "Because it's a new property, you don't need title
insurance", Actually, because it's new, 4 years since the house was
built, I need it all the more. If the surveyor made a mistake, or the
builder did, then my lot wouldn't be what the deed says it is, and
since there had only been four years and one neighbor on each side to
challenge it, new people might come and challenge. Plus the county
owns on one side and they might challenge. And my little lot is oddly
shaped, 8 sided I think, with a narrow waist in the middle. Plenty of
places to make a mistake.

In fact the whole n'hood was laid out wrong, and it turned out we were
using land that belonged to the next n'hhod. I think before the
houses were even sold, the builders worked out a swap of land with the
next big property. Before these houses were built in 1970, I think
it was a combination of woods and an auto junk yard.

If your lot is rectangular, and has been the same size and shape for
100 years, your need for title insurance won't be based I guess on
disputes about the size or shape of the lot, but there are other
reasons. I don't think it is very expensive, but I forget. I was
taught that everyone needs title insurance.

5) What about a warranty deed?

I don't know about that.

6) Do I have to go to local agencies to inform them that I am the
owner? Do I have to sign papers with them?

No. The people who tax you will find you.

You have to connect the utilities, but that would be true if you
rented also.

CAll in advance and arrange for them just to be put in your name so
there is no interruption in service. It's best if you can get the
seller's cooperation, becasue he'll want the bils out of his name as
soon as he doesn't live there. My seller was a nice guy and trusted
me, or called them and told them whatever. I did that and it worked
for electricity and gas, but I had no phone when I got there until the
next day. It was their fault, but no big deal, even before cell
phones. I had no one to call, so I didn't miss the phone. The owner
had moved out the morning of the closing. In fact he fertilized his
bushes and took his final few things before we met him at the closing,
but don't expect that kind of devotion from most sellers.

7) How can I find out if unpaid taxes or lien or other stuff is on the
property? And do I need an insurance against that too?

Title search. Aha, I knew there were reeasonss. I always figurted
title insurance would pay for that, but that's why the title company
does a search first, so there will be nothing to pay for.

If they find back taxes due, I don't think they have to get paid, but
you can also have the amount subtracted from the sale price at the
closing.

Did I forget something?

I'm sure. Even though I actually took Real Property in a real law
school (before I dropped out) I can't remember if you forgot
something.

I felt chewed up by the process, and I have said many times, How can
people whose parents didn't own their own homes and who never learned
this stuff from their parents or bought property before get away in
one piece. Yet millions do. And even I didn't lose any money. And
most of my complaints were with the process of getting the mortgage,
and a few with the lawyer for not doing much. And the real estate
agent(s), a pair of women fwiw, for breaking the law. Although they
asked the boss as he walked by how to handle it, and hte boss agreed
with them.

He wasn't that old but 5 years later I noticed that the real estate
agency had closed and I no longer saw ads for the two agents where I
used to see them. So this might well have been a below-par company
that others didn't like either.

I also was in a hurry and in a new town and didn't ask anyone for
help, thinking the lawyer was enough. You're doing the right thing by
asking.

One thing you forgot is mortgage insurance. If your downpayment is
less than 20% in most places, mortgage companies will insist that
youget mortgage insurance, which will make your mortgage payments if
you don't. Their doing so doesn't get you off the hoook, even if you
are out of work or dead. You have to reimburse the mortgage insurance
company. The only place that benefits is the mortgagor, or
mortgagee?, the bank that lent you the money. But I think it's not
that expensive.

More importantly, when you get to 20% equity, which I think means that
your down payment plus the amount you've paid on the principal equals
20% of the purchase price, you can cancel the mortgage insurance and
stop paying for it. NO ONE will remind you to cancel. The mortgagee
is happy if the insurance continues because he is guaranteed to get
his money without fighting with you. And the insurance company is
happy because the borrower (you) is paying premiums.

In maryland and I'm sure some other states, every mortgagor can prepay
on his mortgage with no penalty, so that if he gets a raise or has
more money, he can pay off his mortgage early (although I was told you
have to specify that pre-payments are menat for pincipal). This is
probably not true everywhere. So in Maryland, one can turn a 30-year
mortgage into a 20 or 15 year mortgage just by paying early. And save
a lot of interest.

If you don't live in a place where you can prepay with no penalty, and
If you can afford it and it won't make it more likely that you default
(which is bad in many ways) and if the bank or mortgage company will
do it, you could find and get a shorter-term mortgage, which will save
you a lot of interest. OTOH, some people would take that extra money
and invest it, and might end up making more money on the investment
than they are losing on the extra interest, especially since your
intersest is dedecutible from your income tax. so if you are in the
25% marginal income tax bracket, and you are paying for simple
mathematics sake, 8% interest on the mortgage, you get back 25$ of the
8% = 2% on your taxes, if you remember to deduct the interest. Then,
if you can actually, reliably make more than 6% in the stock market or
some other investment, the 2% plus more than 6% will be more than the
8% interest you are paying. And you'll be a little ahead. This is
the kind of thing that I just hate. It makes my brain hurt. But I
can't really recommend a short-term mortgage withoout mentioning this
possible advantage to a long term mortgage.

This won't work with credit card debt, or personal loans, because the
interest on those are not tax-deductible iirc, and because you won't
get nearly as good a rate on them as you will on a mortgage, where
there is something tangible for the lender to foreclose on.

In fact, if you already have credit card debt, the more you have the
harder it will be to get a mortgage and the greater downpayment the
mortgage company will insist that you make, but otoh, you should
borrow enough money or make the payments low enough that you can pay
off all your credit card and personal loan debt at the lower mortgage
interest, instead of the 24% a year or more credit card interest rate.

Had enough?

Joe

P.S. Thanks for the answers to the other thread with the noise
reduction. Some gave good advice.

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 10:09:03 -0400, "Nancy Young"
wrote:


Don't fall for those interest only mortgages, if you can't afford the
house with a regular mortgage, usually you should not be buying one.

Yes, for sure. A million homes foreclosed last year, representing I
guess about 4 million people, over 1% of the population, in just one
year. Millions more expected in years to come. Of course that is
because this is the first big? downturn in the economny or interest
rate increase since they started writing in this case, I think most
were adjustable rate mortgages. ARM's with no fixed interest rates.

Didn't interest only come later, so we will soon see many foreclosures
(and evictions of course) on those. Because those people are paying
even less. Even ARM's applied something to the principal every month,
although it is almost all interest for the first years.

I'm almost always an optimist, but imagining that interest rates won't
go up is not just optimism, it's foolish dreaming,

On 24 Mar 2007 22:05:12 -0700, wrote:

I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

I should probably say that the townhouse I was buying was only 4 years
old, so there was no concern that anything had worn out, and little
concern that something was built wrong.

And I also talked to the next door neigbhor about the townhouse
n'hood.

She assured me that it was nice, but forgot to mention that her own
dog was a barker.

I also did things like go their late evening or night to make sure
there was adequate parking when everyone was home.

I was supposed to go out to the main street to the xway during morning
and evening rush hour to see the level of traffic, but I only made it
to one of those periods, and I might have been late to that. I also
asked the gas station attendant and though he turned out to be right
when he said it wasn't bad, etc., it would have been better to see for
myself. OTOH, traffic is lighter all around this city in the summer,
and a gas station guy is there, outside some of the time, all year
long. So both looking oneself and asking someone are best.

writes:

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

Some comments about realtors:

Real estate agents are always paid by the seller, both the seller's
agent and the buyer's agent. Unless "your" real estate agent has a
special contractual arrangement with you called "buyer's agent", he
actually works for the seller, and is likely bound to tell the seller
anything you say that would benefit the seller. So don't tell your
agent the maximum you'd be willing to pay, for example.

In theory, real estate agents are supposed to be motivated to get the
highest selling price because they are paid a percentage. But in
reality, like any rational person, they really want to maximize income
divided by time spent. If a potential buyer is offering close to what
they think the house will sell for, the selling agent my advise the
owner to sell. The agent isn't going to want to show the place to 3
times as many people to get a few percent increase in price.

There are good real estate agents out there. The one we used to buy our
current house was recommended to us by someone else, and acted as a
buyer's agent for us. He worked hard to find us something we'd like and
could afford. He'd send us a list of potential places, we'd drive by an
look at them or arrange to view the house, then report our impressions
back to him. Then he'd modify what he was searching for.

On the other hand, the seller's agent was a turkey. The listing omitted
one upstairs bedroom, had spelling errors, and implied that only
"undiscerning" buyers might be interested (because it's next to a large
cemetary). I'm sure the sellers could have got more than we offered if
they had chosen their agent better.

Years before this house, I bought a townhouse and sold it a few years
later when I moved. I didn't get a good feeling from either realtor
in those two transactions - I always had the impression they were
working for themselves, not me. I suspect that the good realtors are
rare.

Dave

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 18:56:26 +0000 (UTC), (Dave
Martindale) wrote:

writes:

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

Some comments about realtors:

Real estate agents are always paid by the seller, both the seller's
agent and the buyer's agent. Unless "your" real estate agent has a
special contractual arrangement with you called "buyer's agent", he
actually works for the seller, and is likely bound to tell the seller
anything you say that would benefit the seller. So don't tell your
agent the maximum you'd be willing to pay, for example.

Yes, and the agent won't even feel it is dishonesst to disclose your
maximum amount. AFAIK, it's not.

I think, not sure, most fully developed moral systems wouldnt' call it
immoral either because people are supposed to know basic rules of the
game when they start to play the game.

Would it be immoral for a car dealer to sell a car at sticker price,
if someone didn't know any better and thought that WAS the price.

Is it immoral to not return someone's money when they think they have
3? days to change their mind, because they are confusing it with
purchases made from door-to-door salesmen, that were totally
unsolicited. A good law maybe, but I'm sure it has confused lots of
people about contract law in every other area. Maybe they were told
flat-out by someone who was confused, so the confusion isn't even
based on an ill-drawn inference by the buyer.

In theory, real estate agents are supposed to be motivated to get the
highest selling price because they are paid a percentage. But in
reality, like any rational person, they really want to maximize income
divided by time spent. If a potential buyer is offering close to what
they think the house will sell for, the selling agent my advise the
owner to sell. The agent isn't going to want to show the place to 3
times as many people to get a few percent increase in price.

What gets me are people who would brag that their house sold in 2
days. In most cases, if they're not in a big hurry, if their house
sold in 2 days, shouldn't they have been asking for a little more
money?

There are good real estate agents out there. The one we used to buy our
current house was recommended to us by someone else, and acted as a
buyer's agent for us. He worked hard to find us something we'd like and
could afford. He'd send us a list of potential places, we'd drive by an
look at them or arrange to view the house, then report our impressions
back to him. Then he'd modify what he was searching for.

On the other hand, the seller's agent was a turkey. The listing omitted
one upstairs bedroom, had spelling errors, and implied that only
"undiscerning" buyers might be interested (because it's next to a large
cemetary).

Wow. I saw a personal ad once that mentioned the guy was overweight,
had digestive problems, no car, no good job or maybe no job, and more
bad stuff. My only guess was that he didn't want to endure meeting
girls and disappointing them and getting his own feelings hurt too.
It might have said he dressed badly, which, if he knew it, I would
think he could have improved. This doesn't have much to do with
houses, I guess.

I'm sure the sellers could have got more than we offered if
they had chosen their agent better.

Years before this house, I bought a townhouse and sold it a few years
later when I moved. I didn't get a good feeling from either realtor
in those two transactions - I always had the impression they were
working for themselves, not me. I suspect that the good realtors are
rare.

Those two women, who worked together and sold me my house, that I
complained about, I met them at their office a few months later and
told them how unhappy I was with them. I pointed out all the mistakes
they made and that everyone I met at work and especially socially at
the age I was then would be buying or selling a house, and I would
never refer them.

They also, after the inspection on the way to the closing, drove me
through another n'hood a block from mine with cuter homes at the same
price, including one that was for sale that they wanted to drive by
and look at, and which they talked about how nice it was. Boy did
that worry me, and could have made me back out of mine altogether. It
took me months to convince myself that the yards were smaller than
mine, that my house had a particularly good location, (in a corner
where the stream turned) and that the outside being cuter was just not
that important.

The real estate agent before them I told in the 60's, but she kept
takeing me to place in the 80's. (two places in one day. I only spent
3 hours with her, I think) If nothing good existed in the 60's, that
would have made sense, but Baltimore was cheap 24 years ago, maybe
still is, and there were loads of houses at my price. Because I
didn't expect to stay here so long, or to buy a house, I got the first
agent to cash a check for me, at the end of those 3 hours. (This was
before there were many cash machines in other states, I think that was
the reason.) The check was good, and she lost no money, but when a
day went by without my calling her, she called me and was annoyed,
even though I had told her the houses were too much money for me.

Dave

On 24 Mar 2007 22:05:12 -0700, wrote:

I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

1. Remember that the Agent ONLY represents the Seller, not you. His
job is to be nice to you and then screw you over as much as legally
possible.

2. In my city, the title insurance companies do the cheapest jobs of
transferring title. The title insurance protects your and they
arrange the closings for you - often by mail.

However, if you get a loan from any bank or savings and loan or
credit union, then they are the best at arranging the closing for you
and they have rules they must play by that keeps them honest.

3. If owner financing is involved then the owner is probably going to
provide everything for you. This is the case where you need an
attorney or knowledgable friend to help you - and title insurance. In
my state, we honor a 'contract to sell' where you pay for 20 years and
then get title. Definitely not a good thing to do if you are the
buyer.

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:34:07 -0400, mm
wrote:


1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

You should never buy a house on installments. What you want is a
deed, and since you don't have enough money to pay for the whole house
at once, a mortgage.

To enlarge on this, the only place i know where a lot of people bought
houses on installments was in Chicago, until the '70's, and the only
people who had to do this were Black people. The lenders would not
take mortgages from Black home buyers, even if they had good jobs, had
been at their jobs a long time, and had good credit history. That's
what made it racism and not economic disparity.

So they were forced to buy a house like one buys a car, and if they
missed a payment, like a car, the home could be repossessed, which
takes little time, unlike foreclosure where people have months to get
a new job or scrounge the owed money from someone.

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:08:30 GMT, Phisherman wrote:

On 24 Mar 2007 22:05:12 -0700, wrote:

I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

What I know is that

1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

Your contact is the real estate agent. He will explain all the
paperwork and procedures.


2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

Legally, you take possession of the house immediately following the
closing. Unless you pay for it in full the lender legally owns the
house until your mortgage is paid. You and the seller can put
whatever you want in the purchase agreement--the real estate lawyer
makes sure everything is legal. Papers are signed at the closing.
This is where real estate agent, seller, owner, lending agency, and
lawyer are present. Each state has slightly different laws.

3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

Ask him. I brought my (cashiers) check to the closing.


4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

Maybe. I didn't feel like paying $1000.

That will depend on what your mortgage company requires,
*YOU* don't want title insurance at all. You just want
the results of a title search. But if you're borrowing
money from a major corp. You probably have no choice.

5) What about a warranty deed?

You get that if you buy from a builder (new construction). Usually
there are no warranties for a used house.

You're confused. A warranty deed is as opposed to a quit-claim
deed. It's sort of like title insurance from the previous owner.
With a warranty deed the seller is guaranteeing that he actually
own all the property and rights that he's selling you. With
a quit-claim deed, he's just selling you whatever rights he happens
to have, and if someone else shows up with a land-grant from the
king of france giving HIM ownership, that's your problem.

If you're buying land from a family that's been living there
for 200 years, and you plan to die in place, there's not much
to choose between. If you're buying the place and expect to
sell it again on five years, a lot of people are more comfortable
with a warranty deed. If there's any question at all about
clear title, you want a warranty deed, because then the SELLER
gets to pay for the court fight.

Goedjn

6) Do I have to go to local agencies to inform them that I am the
owner? Do I have to sign papers with them?

No. In fact, I asked my real estate agent to keep my sale private if
possible.

Hmmm, how is that possible? Everywhere I'm aware of the deed has to
be recorded. Besides recording and protecting your ownership, it
also is how govts know who is going to pay tax on the property. As
buyer, this step is normally performed by whoever handles the
closing. You don't have to do it yourself. And usually there are
some fees included in the closing to handle charges to get it
recorded.

I'm pretty sure that you can file all the right papers
with just the name of an agent, who will then be expected
to handle all the paperwork, and field any claims
by people who break their legs on the property.
Alternatively, you could buy it in the name of a trust,
foundation, or business, which happens to be controlled by you.
The municipality can certainly force the agent to reveal
the ultimate owner, although they might need a court order
to do it.

--Goedjn
THese days the hard trick is moving enough money to buy
the place without having to do federal paperwork to show
where the money came from and went.

On Mar 26, 9:37 am, Goedjn wrote:
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:08:30 GMT, Phisherman wrote:
On 24 Mar 2007 22:05:12 -0700, wrote:

I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

What I know is that

1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

Your contact is the real estate agent. He will explain all the
paperwork and procedures.

2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

Legally, you take possession of the house immediately following the
closing. Unless you pay for it in full the lender legally owns the
house until your mortgage is paid. You and the seller can put
whatever you want in the purchase agreement--the real estate lawyer
makes sure everything is legal. Papers are signed at the closing.
This is where real estate agent, seller, owner, lending agency, and
lawyer are present. Each state has slightly different laws.

3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

Ask him. I brought my (cashiers) check to the closing.

4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

Maybe. I didn't feel like paying $1000.

That will depend on what your mortgage company requires,
*YOU* don't want title insurance at all. You just want
the results of a title search. But if you're borrowing
money from a major corp. You probably have no choice.


So, say he buys the house for cash, with no title insurance. What
happens when a couple
years later someone shows up with a lien on the property that was
missed during the title search?
Or the spouse of the person who sold it to him shows up, saying the
property was really theirs
and the seller committed fraud, the deed that was filed wasn't real,
etc?

The buyer needs title insurance, regardless of whether they have a
mortgage or not.






5) What about a warranty deed?

You get that if you buy from a builder (new construction). Usually
there are no warranties for a used house.

You're confused. A warranty deed is as opposed to a quit-claim
deed. It's sort of like title insurance from the previous owner.
With a warranty deed the seller is guaranteeing that he actually
own all the property and rights that he's selling you. With
a quit-claim deed, he's just selling you whatever rights he happens
to have, and if someone else shows up with a land-grant from the
king of france giving HIM ownership, that's your problem.

If you're buying land from a family that's been living there
for 200 years, and you plan to die in place, there's not much
to choose between. If you're buying the place and expect to
sell it again on five years, a lot of people are more comfortable
with a warranty deed. If there's any question at all about
clear title, you want a warranty deed, because then the SELLER
gets to pay for the court fight.

Goedjn- Hide quoted text -



No, you want title insurance, because then it's the title insurance
company's problem and costs, to straighten out, not yours. Suppose
the seller has moved across the country or even worse to another
country, is dead, etc? How easy do you think it's going to be to
recover anything from his "warranty deed" or get him to handle the
legal
problem? The warranty is only as good as the person behind it. Even
if he's living across town, he could have no assets, be judgement
proof, and just say "screw you."

On Mar 25, 1:05 am, wrote:
I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

Is he your real estate agent, or the seller's? A real estate agent's
role is to represent their client's best interests. You should not be
dealing directly with the seller's agent unless you feel capable of
negotiating the best deal possible and know the ins and outs of real
estate law in your state. The fact you're asking questions in this
forum says you're not even remotely familiar with the real estate
process and have your work cut out for you.

But that's OK! Your situation is why we have real estate agents. Real
estate law is a confusing tangle of rules, laws, traditions, etc., and
is more complicated than any of us can really deal with on our own.
Real estate agents are not fast-talking slicky-boys out to bilk
clients (OK, some are, but they're the exception!); rather they are
people who have studied the laws and strategies, have passed exams and
are licensed by the state to represent you and your best interests in
either selling or buying a house.

You need your own real estate agent. If the agent of which you speak
is your agent, you have to ask yourself why you haven't asked these
questions of him. Do you not trust him to represent your interests? Do
you not like his personality? Do you not trust yourself? You have some
serious systemic misgivings here, and I would advise you to find
someone you trust to help you through this process.

Yeah, buying a home the first time is a frightening process not only
because of the size of the purchase but because of the mountains of
details and legal obligations. I know; I went through it last year.
Thank God this was the third time for my wife, so she kept me sane.
But it also helped we found a real estate agent we felt was working
hard to help us, who wasn't pushing us to buy larger than we could
afford, who gave us good advice in what we were looking to buy, and
who had a good eye.

Because you have myriad questions whose answers are not universal or
even national, you really do need to talk with a professional in your
area. You can't get your questions answered here because real estate
laws vary from state to state. For example, in Delaware you cannot do
a residential real estate settlement through a title company; you must
use a lawyer. Not so in Maryland. In Maryland a real estate agent is
allowed to represent both seller and buyer; Delaware sees that as a
conflict of interest and requires separate real estate agents for both
parties.

Talk with people you know and trust about who they have used as real
estate agents and would they use them again. Don't just call someone
out of the phone book or based on their ad in the real estate section
of your newspaper. Many real estate agents now have websites where you
can take a look at who they are and how they present themselves and
see if you're comfortable approaching them. There are lots of
possibilities out there, but you have some serious thinking and
homework to do before you're even ready to consider buying a house.

In article .com,
"Kyle" wrote:


But that's OK! Your situation is why we have real estate agents. Real
estate law is a confusing tangle of rules, laws, traditions, etc., and
is more complicated than any of us can really deal with on our own.
Real estate agents are not fast-talking slicky-boys out to bilk
clients (OK, some are, but they're the exception!); rather they are
people who have studied the laws and strategies, have passed exams and
are licensed by the state to represent you and your best interests in
either selling or buying a house.


Admittedly it has been a few years since I bought a house, but at
the time it was told to me that the Real Estate agent BY LAW was the
agent of the seller no matter if he was working with buyer or not and
thus was legally beholden to the seller and couldn't suggest to you
things that might be in your best interests if was not in the best
interests of the seller.
Has this changed nationally, or at least how would someone find
out if this is a concern in their state? Is this something the neophyte
we are talking to should find out about?

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:05:12 GMT, Kurt Ullman
wrote:


Admittedly it has been a few years since I bought a house, but at
the time it was told to me that the Real Estate agent BY LAW was the
agent of the seller no matter if he was working with buyer or not and
thus was legally beholden to the seller and couldn't suggest to you
things that might be in your best interests if was not in the best
interests of the seller.

I can't help thinking that the unspoken words here were "in the
absence of a written agency agreement between the prospective buyer
and the agent."

That even if the agent says "I'll be helping you.... Mr. Scott said I
should work with you... BY LAW the agent is NOT the buyer's agent.

But I'm sure the general concept of agent and agency has existed in
English law for longer than laws like the one you refer to, and I
would be surprised if any real estate law excluded it here. I'd be
surprised if it prevented anyone from hiring an agent to represent
him, in any dealing, and if that agent knew something about real
estate, that would be fine too.

Unlike most contracts, contracts for the purchase of real estate must
be in writing. So the notion exists that certain contracts have to be
in writing, and a seller's hiring a real estate agent could be one of
them.

IANAL.

Has this changed nationally, or at least how would someone find
out if this is a concern in their state? Is this something the neophyte
we are talking to should find out about?

In article ,
mm wrote:

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:05:12 GMT, Kurt Ullman
wrote:


Admittedly it has been a few years since I bought a house, but at
the time it was told to me that the Real Estate agent BY LAW was the
agent of the seller no matter if he was working with buyer or not and
thus was legally beholden to the seller and couldn't suggest to you
things that might be in your best interests if was not in the best
interests of the seller.

I can't help thinking that the unspoken words here were "in the
absence of a written agency agreement between the prospective buyer
and the agent."


At least in Indiana at the time, as it was explained to me, there was
no such thing legally as a buyer's agent. Period. Exclamation point. I
also remember a few years ago when I was looking in FL signing a
document that stated basically the same thing.. although in the interim
they must have changed the law because the last time we were thinking
about locating to the Sunshine, this wasn't invoked.

That will depend on what your mortgage company requires,
*YOU* don't want title insurance at all. You just want
the results of a title search. But if you're borrowing
money from a major corp. You probably have no choice.


So, say he buys the house for cash, with no title insurance. What
happens when a couple
years later someone shows up with a lien on the property that was
missed during the title search?
Or the spouse of the person who sold it to him shows up, saying the
property was really theirs
and the seller committed fraud, the deed that was filed wasn't real,
etc?

The buyer needs title insurance, regardless of whether they have a
mortgage or not.


That's what the title search is supposed to find.
The odds of the title search missing something that
the title insurance will actually cover are extrememly low.

That's why title insurance is profitable.

Many banks and Savings & Loans offer free classes on buying a home.
Obviously, they want you to borrow money from them but there's no
obligation to do so. Classes like these will give you the most
basic info on how to get started and who is responsible for doing
what.

If you haven't already, you might ask your bank how much they'll lend
you - then you've got some idea of what you can afford.

Google How to buy a home + state name.

If you've decided that the house you refer to is the one for you and you
need to act quickly, get a lawyer, though as many have remarked, in many
states all the legal papers are routinely drawn up by the RE agents.

wrote:
I am buying a small house not in the best shape but anyway. Never owed
a house before.

The real estate guy is nice but how honest and smart he is - I don't
know.

What do I have to do to handle this purchase as best as possible?

What I know is that

1) I pay a deposit, (couple of thousands) and then monthly
installments. So, I need a contact for that and a receipt, right?

2) What do I need to make sure that I really get the house? I sign a
purchase agreement for the house? Who prepares it? Who signs it?

3) I pay the real estate guy or the owner? Or depends?

4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

5) What about a warranty deed?

6) Do I have to go to local agencies to inform them that I am the
owner? Do I have to sign papers with them?

7) How can I find out if unpaid taxes or lien or other stuff is on the
property? And do I need an insurance against that too?

Did I forget something?

Joe

P.S. Thanks for the answers to the other thread with the noise
reduction. Some gave good advice.

On Mar 26, 3:45 pm, Goedjn wrote:
That will depend on what your mortgage company requires,
*YOU* don't want title insurance at all. You just want
the results of a title search. But if you're borrowing
money from a major corp. You probably have no choice.

So, say he buys the house for cash, with no title insurance. What
happens when a couple
years later someone shows up with a lien on the property that was
missed during the title search?
Or the spouse of the person who sold it to him shows up, saying the
property was really theirs
and the seller committed fraud, the deed that was filed wasn't real,
etc?

The buyer needs title insurance, regardless of whether they have a
mortgage or not.

That's what the title search is supposed to find.

Supposed to is the operative word here. And a title search will only
find what has
been recorded. For example, suppose the seller was a crook and sold
the same property to two other
people at the same time. It can take a week or so for the title
change to be recorded.


The odds of the title search missing something that
the title insurance will actually cover are extrememly low.

That's why title insurance is profitable.- Hide quoted text -


The same can be said of fire insurance. Should he skip that too?

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 10:37:07 -0400, Goedjn wrote:


4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

Maybe. I didn't feel like paying $1000.

That will depend on what your mortgage company requires,
*YOU* don't want title insurance at all. You just want

See below.

the results of a title search. But if you're borrowing
money from a major corp. You probably have no choice.

Why do you suppose the major corp. wants him to get title insurance?

In case he doesn't have good title and/or someone else challenges it.

That's the same reason the buyer should want title insurance.

Whether he wants to act as a self-insurer or not, one shouldn't tell
him that there is no risk.

The title insurance company does a title search to lower its risk --
and I'm sure one can pay for a title search without the title
insurance. The records are public. One can go back there himself,
look in drawers, get copies made, etc. though I'm sure a newbie
woulldn't find everything -- but there is still some risk in writing
insurance, risk that they will have to pay out, because even a pro
might not find everything, especially if it is not there.

Whether title insurance is more expensive for the risk than other
insurance, I don't know, but I'm sure there are reports on that. If it
was an especially good deal, why aren't there competitors selling
title insurance for less? Even if the reports don't do cost/benefit,
there must be figures on how many title claims are brought, and how
many are successful, and maybe how much the legal costs are, on
average.


One shouldn't bother insuring a 10 dollar, or even a 100 dollar
package sent by mail**, because one can act as a self-insurer and the
odds are he will make the same profit that the other insurer makes,
and if not, he can afford to bear the loss.

One should only insure for losses he can't afford to bear, and the
legal fees to defend a title claim, or the loss of the house are
things most people can't afford to bear.


**Unless he believes the post office etc. will take better care of
something that is insured, so he faces less risk of losing it in the
first place. I don't know if they do or not.

In article , mm wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 10:37:07 -0400, Goedjn wrote:


4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

Maybe. I didn't feel like paying $1000.

That will depend on what your mortgage company requires,
*YOU* don't want title insurance at all. You just want

See below.

the results of a title search. But if you're borrowing
money from a major corp. You probably have no choice.

Why do you suppose the major corp. wants him to get title insurance?

In case he doesn't have good title and/or someone else challenges it.

Because the corporate lender benefits from lower exposure
at ZERO cost. Heh, why wouldn't you get ***** [anything]
if you can strongarm someone else into picking up your tab.

That's the same reason the buyer should want title insurance.

Except that the buyer needs to balance the benefit against
the actual cost.

Having said all that, I would not personally skip the title
insurance. But that doesn't mean it isn't something of a
scam -- it is. In CA at least, quite a few title companies
have been clobbered by the state for some very shady dealings.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On 26 Mar 2007 18:39:50 -0700, wrote:

On Mar 26, 3:45 pm, Goedjn wrote:
That will depend on what your mortgage company requires,
*YOU* don't want title insurance at all. You just want
the results of a title search. But if you're borrowing
money from a major corp. You probably have no choice.

So, say he buys the house for cash, with no title insurance. What
happens when a couple
years later someone shows up with a lien on the property that was
missed during the title search?
Or the spouse of the person who sold it to him shows up, saying the
property was really theirs
and the seller committed fraud, the deed that was filed wasn't real,
etc?

The buyer needs title insurance, regardless of whether they have a
mortgage or not.

That's what the title search is supposed to find.

Supposed to is the operative word here. And a title search will only
find what has
been recorded. For example, suppose the seller was a crook and sold
the same property to two other
people at the same time. It can take a week or so for the title
change to be recorded.


The odds of the title search missing something that
the title insurance will actually cover are extrememly low.

That's why title insurance is profitable.- Hide quoted text -


The same can be said of fire insurance. Should he skip that too?

If you can survive the loss without it, yes.

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:45:29 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 10:37:07 -0400, Goedjn wrote:


4) I need title insurance? When is the best to get it? Same day, I
purchase the house?

Maybe. I didn't feel like paying $1000.

That will depend on what your mortgage company requires,
*YOU* don't want title insurance at all. You just want

See below.

the results of a title search. But if you're borrowing
money from a major corp. You probably have no choice.

Why do you suppose the major corp. wants him to get title insurance?

Because they don't have to pay for it, so it's low return for
zero outlay.

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 11:22:40 -0400, Goedjn wrote:

On 26 Mar 2007 18:39:50 -0700, wrote:

On Mar 26, 3:45 pm, Goedjn wrote:
That will depend on what your mortgage company requires,
*YOU* don't want title insurance at all. You just want
the results of a title search. But if you're borrowing
money from a major corp. You probably have no choice.

So, say he buys the house for cash, with no title insurance. What
happens when a couple
years later someone shows up with a lien on the property that was
missed during the title search?
Or the spouse of the person who sold it to him shows up, saying the
property was really theirs
and the seller committed fraud, the deed that was filed wasn't real,
etc?

The buyer needs title insurance, regardless of whether they have a
mortgage or not.

That's what the title search is supposed to find.

Supposed to is the operative word here. And a title search will only
find what has
been recorded. For example, suppose the seller was a crook and sold
the same property to two other
people at the same time. It can take a week or so for the title
change to be recorded.


The odds of the title search missing something that
the title insurance will actually cover are extrememly low.

That's why title insurance is profitable.- Hide quoted text -


The same can be said of fire insurance. Should he skip that too?

If you can survive the loss without it, yes.

But applying that to your property's title, who can survive the loss
of that? It's not just the house, minus the contents, but the land
too.

The title insurance premium is only paid once. Fire insurance, every
year.

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 01:14:14 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 11:22:40 -0400, Goedjn wrote:

On 26 Mar 2007 18:39:50 -0700, wrote:

On Mar 26, 3:45 pm, Goedjn wrote:
That will depend on what your mortgage company requires,
*YOU* don't want title insurance at all. You just want
the results of a title search. But if you're borrowing
money from a major corp. You probably have no choice.

So, say he buys the house for cash, with no title insurance. What
happens when a couple
years later someone shows up with a lien on the property that was
missed during the title search?
Or the spouse of the person who sold it to him shows up, saying the
property was really theirs
and the seller committed fraud, the deed that was filed wasn't real,
etc?

The buyer needs title insurance, regardless of whether they have a
mortgage or not.

That's what the title search is supposed to find.

Supposed to is the operative word here. And a title search will only
find what has
been recorded. For example, suppose the seller was a crook and sold
the same property to two other
people at the same time. It can take a week or so for the title
change to be recorded.


The odds of the title search missing something that
the title insurance will actually cover are extrememly low.

That's why title insurance is profitable.- Hide quoted text -


The same can be said of fire insurance. Should he skip that too?

If you can survive the loss without it, yes.

But applying that to your property's title, who can survive the loss
of that? It's not just the house, minus the contents, but the land
too.

The title insurance premium is only paid once. Fire insurance, every
year.

It's also a protection against a nonexistant threat.