I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue? And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,
checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.

I believe stainless sinks have various levels of thickness and/or quality.

I had a stainless sink once and paid the lowest price I could find. It was
a low grade stainless and when I used the disposer it made a lot of noise.
"DLK" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue? And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,
checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.

On Mar 6, 9:04 am, "DLK" wrote:
I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue? And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,
checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.

I have heard this also but think it is urban legend. I have yet to
see a concrete example of this practice.

Probably started by the the salesman, supply houses, and plumbers that
all get a little $ off of the Delta you buy from them.

"DLK" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue? And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,
checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.



Warranty issues: You should address this question to the manufacturers,
using a telephone, and ONLY a telephone. They will tell you whether the
warranty is affected by where you purchase their products. What they CANNOT
tell you is HOW each type of dealer will be able to help you if you need a
product replaced. However, it should be obvious that an internet retailer is
not going to make you happy when your faucet has problems on Friday night,
you have to shut off the water to the kitchen, and you have guests coming
for dinner on Saturday. At least in my house, there are certain products
which cannot be out of commission for however many days it takes for someone
to ship me a new one. The kitchen faucet is one of those things. I think
you'd be crazy to NOT buy a thing like that from a local vendor, and
preferably a plumbing supply house. If they have several in stock most of
the time, I'd be surprised if they wouldn't swap a defect for a new one when
you walked in the door.

As far as manufacturers making different products for different retailers,
yes, it does happen. This is another issue you'll discuss on the phone with
the manufacturers. But, what you're MORE likely to discover is that certain
models aren't regularly stocked at Home Depot because maybe they don't think
their "typical customer" is going to spend $350 for a fancy faucet. So,
it'll be a special order item.

Sinks: Some are made of thicker metal than others. This matters because if
the deck (where the faucet's mounted) flexes too much, the gasket can begin
to leak and then you have a mess under your sink. This happened to me in an
apartment. They finally saw the light and replaced the sinks. Thicker metal
also makes for a quieter sink.

"RayV" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 6, 9:04 am, "DLK" wrote:
I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue? And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,
checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.

I have heard this also but think it is urban legend. I have yet to
see a concrete example of this practice.

Probably started by the the salesman, supply houses, and plumbers that
all get a little $ off of the Delta you buy from them.



For whatever it's worth, the supply house where I got my last Moen faucet
had a significantly lower price than Home Depot. I think HD has a price
matching policy, but so what? Drive across town to get the same price as the
place you just left? Duh.

It's always worth checking the specialty dealers. There's no logical reason
for them to ALWAYS be more expensive.

On Mar 6, 9:18 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"DLK" wrote in message

oups.com...





I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue? And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,
checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.

Warranty issues: You should address this question to the manufacturers,
using a telephone, and ONLY a telephone. They will tell you whether the
warranty is affected by where you purchase their products. What they CANNOT
tell you is HOW each type of dealer will be able to help you if you need a
product replaced. However, it should be obvious that an internet retailer is
not going to make you happy when your faucet has problems on Friday night,
you have to shut off the water to the kitchen, and you have guests coming
for dinner on Saturday. At least in my house, there are certain products
which cannot be out of commission for however many days it takes for someone
to ship me a new one. The kitchen faucet is one of those things. I think
you'd be crazy to NOT buy a thing like that from a local vendor, and
preferably a plumbing supply house. If they have several in stock most of
the time, I'd be surprised if they wouldn't swap a defect for a new one when
you walked in the door.

As far as manufacturers making different products for different retailers,
yes, it does happen. This is another issue you'll discuss on the phone with
the manufacturers. But, what you're MORE likely to discover is that certain
models aren't regularly stocked at Home Depot because maybe they don't think
their "typical customer" is going to spend $350 for a fancy faucet. So,
it'll be a special order item.

Sinks: Some are made of thicker metal than others. This matters because if
the deck (where the faucet's mounted) flexes too much, the gasket can begin
to leak and then you have a mess under your sink. This happened to me in an
apartment. They finally saw the light and replaced the sinks. Thicker metal
also makes for a quieter sink.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the imput everyone. I think I will stick with my local
plumbing supplier on the faucet for the reasons mentioned. I was
planning to go with one of the Grohe stainless models and the price
difference between local supplier and internet is rather large:
$100-200. It is tempting. Does anyone have thoughts about the Grohe
faucets, good or bad?

For the sink, I am doing the 1 1/2 bowl, undermount sink, so no deck
issue, and assume that I would be using one of the thicker gauges, I
guess it is 18. Given that, any suggestions on manufacturer?

"DLK" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Mar 6, 9:18 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"DLK" wrote in message

oups.com...





I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue? And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,
checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.

Warranty issues: You should address this question to the manufacturers,
using a telephone, and ONLY a telephone. They will tell you whether the
warranty is affected by where you purchase their products. What they
CANNOT
tell you is HOW each type of dealer will be able to help you if you need
a
product replaced. However, it should be obvious that an internet retailer
is
not going to make you happy when your faucet has problems on Friday
night,
you have to shut off the water to the kitchen, and you have guests coming
for dinner on Saturday. At least in my house, there are certain products
which cannot be out of commission for however many days it takes for
someone
to ship me a new one. The kitchen faucet is one of those things. I think
you'd be crazy to NOT buy a thing like that from a local vendor, and
preferably a plumbing supply house. If they have several in stock most of
the time, I'd be surprised if they wouldn't swap a defect for a new one
when
you walked in the door.

As far as manufacturers making different products for different
retailers,
yes, it does happen. This is another issue you'll discuss on the phone
with
the manufacturers. But, what you're MORE likely to discover is that
certain
models aren't regularly stocked at Home Depot because maybe they don't
think
their "typical customer" is going to spend $350 for a fancy faucet. So,
it'll be a special order item.

Sinks: Some are made of thicker metal than others. This matters because
if
the deck (where the faucet's mounted) flexes too much, the gasket can
begin
to leak and then you have a mess under your sink. This happened to me in
an
apartment. They finally saw the light and replaced the sinks. Thicker
metal
also makes for a quieter sink.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the imput everyone. I think I will stick with my local
plumbing supplier on the faucet for the reasons mentioned. I was
planning to go with one of the Grohe stainless models and the price
difference between local supplier and internet is rather large:
$100-200. It is tempting. Does anyone have thoughts about the Grohe
faucets, good or bad?


You might try a test run for service. Cook up some sort of pre-installation
question and call the company. If they sound like idiots now, they'll still
sound like idiots when you really have a problem.

I can vouch for Moen's service being excellent. I called them once to find
out the correct model number for the replacement cartridge in my shower
faucet, which was ruined by debris in the water supply. It had nothing to do
with the quality of their product, and I explained that, but they insisted
on sending me the cartridge for free.

"DLK" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue?


I recently had a plumber tell me the same thing. Although the faucets look
the same, they are not built the same. It makes sense. There would be a
lot of plumbing distributors upset if Home Depot sold the exact same items
for less.

It is the same for laminate flooring. The lines sold at Home Depot and
Lowes cannot be found at your local flooring store. Consequently you cannot
compare apples to apples when shopping for a good price.



And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,
checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.

On Mar 6, 9:36 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"DLK" wrote in message

ps.com...





On Mar 6, 9:18 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"DLK" wrote in message

groups.com...

I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue? And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,
checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.

Warranty issues: You should address this question to the manufacturers,
using a telephone, and ONLY a telephone. They will tell you whether the
warranty is affected by where you purchase their products. What they
CANNOT
tell you is HOW each type of dealer will be able to help you if you need
a
product replaced. However, it should be obvious that an internet retailer
is
not going to make you happy when your faucet has problems on Friday
night,
you have to shut off the water to the kitchen, and you have guests coming
for dinner on Saturday. At least in my house, there are certain products
which cannot be out of commission for however many days it takes for
someone
to ship me a new one. The kitchen faucet is one of those things. I think
you'd be crazy to NOT buy a thing like that from a local vendor, and
preferably a plumbing supply house. If they have several in stock most of
the time, I'd be surprised if they wouldn't swap a defect for a new one
when
you walked in the door.

As far as manufacturers making different products for different
retailers,
yes, it does happen. This is another issue you'll discuss on the phone
with
the manufacturers. But, what you're MORE likely to discover is that
certain
models aren't regularly stocked at Home Depot because maybe they don't
think
their "typical customer" is going to spend $350 for a fancy faucet. So,
it'll be a special order item.

Sinks: Some are made of thicker metal than others. This matters because
if
the deck (where the faucet's mounted) flexes too much, the gasket can
begin
to leak and then you have a mess under your sink. This happened to me in
an
apartment. They finally saw the light and replaced the sinks. Thicker
metal
also makes for a quieter sink.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the imput everyone. I think I will stick with my local
plumbing supplier on the faucet for the reasons mentioned. I was
planning to go with one of the Grohe stainless models and the price
difference between local supplier and internet is rather large:
$100-200. It is tempting. Does anyone have thoughts about the Grohe
faucets, good or bad?

You might try a test run for service. Cook up some sort of pre-installation
question and call the company. If they sound like idiots now, they'll still
sound like idiots when you really have a problem.

I can vouch for Moen's service being excellent. I called them once to find
out the correct model number for the replacement cartridge in my shower
faucet, which was ruined by debris in the water supply. It had nothing to do
with the quality of their product, and I explained that, but they insisted
on sending me the cartridge for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I put the Moen fixtures (bought from the same plumbing supplier) in my
recently redone bathrooms and like them very much. Haven't had a
repair issue yet (knock wood), but glad to hear that the service is
good. Good idea on the test run.

Perhaps I will check out Moen's kitchen faucets as well.

The pullout hose on my Kohler kitchen faucet recently stated leaking.

Kohler just sent me another hose; said these faucets have lifetime warranty.
Purchased from HD.
"DLK" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 6, 9:36 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"DLK" wrote in message

ps.com...





On Mar 6, 9:18 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"DLK" wrote in message

groups.com...

I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same,
but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue? And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,
checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality
manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.

Warranty issues: You should address this question to the manufacturers,
using a telephone, and ONLY a telephone. They will tell you whether the
warranty is affected by where you purchase their products. What they
CANNOT
tell you is HOW each type of dealer will be able to help you if you
need
a
product replaced. However, it should be obvious that an internet
retailer
is
not going to make you happy when your faucet has problems on Friday
night,
you have to shut off the water to the kitchen, and you have guests
coming
for dinner on Saturday. At least in my house, there are certain
products
which cannot be out of commission for however many days it takes for
someone
to ship me a new one. The kitchen faucet is one of those things. I
think
you'd be crazy to NOT buy a thing like that from a local vendor, and
preferably a plumbing supply house. If they have several in stock most
of
the time, I'd be surprised if they wouldn't swap a defect for a new one
when
you walked in the door.

As far as manufacturers making different products for different
retailers,
yes, it does happen. This is another issue you'll discuss on the phone
with
the manufacturers. But, what you're MORE likely to discover is that
certain
models aren't regularly stocked at Home Depot because maybe they don't
think
their "typical customer" is going to spend $350 for a fancy faucet. So,
it'll be a special order item.

Sinks: Some are made of thicker metal than others. This matters because
if
the deck (where the faucet's mounted) flexes too much, the gasket can
begin
to leak and then you have a mess under your sink. This happened to me
in
an
apartment. They finally saw the light and replaced the sinks. Thicker
metal
also makes for a quieter sink.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the imput everyone. I think I will stick with my local
plumbing supplier on the faucet for the reasons mentioned. I was
planning to go with one of the Grohe stainless models and the price
difference between local supplier and internet is rather large:
$100-200. It is tempting. Does anyone have thoughts about the Grohe
faucets, good or bad?

You might try a test run for service. Cook up some sort of
pre-installation
question and call the company. If they sound like idiots now, they'll
still
sound like idiots when you really have a problem.

I can vouch for Moen's service being excellent. I called them once to find
out the correct model number for the replacement cartridge in my shower
faucet, which was ruined by debris in the water supply. It had nothing to
do
with the quality of their product, and I explained that, but they insisted
on sending me the cartridge for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I put the Moen fixtures (bought from the same plumbing supplier) in my
recently redone bathrooms and like them very much. Haven't had a
repair issue yet (knock wood), but glad to hear that the service is
good. Good idea on the test run.

Perhaps I will check out Moen's kitchen faucets as well.

"DLK" wrote in message
ups.com...

I can vouch for Moen's service being excellent. I called them once to
find
out the correct model number for the replacement cartridge in my shower
faucet, which was ruined by debris in the water supply. It had nothing to
do
with the quality of their product, and I explained that, but they
insisted
on sending me the cartridge for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I put the Moen fixtures (bought from the same plumbing supplier) in my
recently redone bathrooms and like them very much. Haven't had a
repair issue yet (knock wood), but glad to hear that the service is
good. Good idea on the test run.

Perhaps I will check out Moen's kitchen faucets as well.



If you look at the web site, don't puke when you see some of the prices. My
local plumbing place didn't charge anywhere near list price. Maybe some
fancy shmancy place in Beverly Hills gets list price.

"oklaman" wrote in message ...
The pullout hose on my Kohler kitchen faucet recently stated leaking.

It is the type where the thing pulls out from the faucet neck itself, or
from the deck?

"DLK" wrote in message
ups.com...
I put the Moen fixtures (bought from the same plumbing supplier) in my
recently redone bathrooms and like them very much. Haven't had a
repair issue yet (knock wood), but glad to hear that the service is
good. Good idea on the test run.

Perhaps I will check out Moen's kitchen faucets as well.


Moen is good, and you might want to look at faucets with ceramic disk
valves. I have used American Standard and they have been excellent. I like
the ceramic disk because they work really smooth, and in my bathroom where I
put the first one 7 years ago I have had zero drips.

I would avoid the cheaper lines like Delta, Price Phister etc.

12 years ago I replaced the shower valve with a Price Phister, and have had
to rebuild it completely twice now including the handles stems and seats.

Another thing I would suggest when you are going to all the work, swap out
the supply valves. I really like the new 1/4 turn ball valve style.

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

On Mar 6, 9:58 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"DLK" wrote in message

ups.com...





I can vouch for Moen's service being excellent. I called them once to
find
out the correct model number for the replacement cartridge in my shower
faucet, which was ruined by debris in the water supply. It had nothing to
do
with the quality of their product, and I explained that, but they
insisted
on sending me the cartridge for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I put the Moen fixtures (bought from the same plumbing supplier) in my
recently redone bathrooms and like them very much. Haven't had a
repair issue yet (knock wood), but glad to hear that the service is
good. Good idea on the test run.

Perhaps I will check out Moen's kitchen faucets as well.

If you look at the web site, don't puke when you see some of the prices. My
local plumbing place didn't charge anywhere near list price. Maybe some
fancy shmancy place in Beverly Hills gets list price.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good point. I think they would take about 20% off list at this place,
but perhaps it makes sense to check with other local plumbing supply
company's for price.

On Mar 6, 10:15 am, "Roger Shoaf" wrote:
"DLK" wrote in message

ups.com...

I put the Moen fixtures (bought from the same plumbing supplier) in my
recently redone bathrooms and like them very much. Haven't had a
repair issue yet (knock wood), but glad to hear that the service is
good. Good idea on the test run.

Perhaps I will check out Moen's kitchen faucets as well.

Moen is good, and you might want to look at faucets with ceramic disk
valves. I have used American Standard and they have been excellent. I like
the ceramic disk because they work really smooth, and in my bathroom where I
put the first one 7 years ago I have had zero drips.

I would avoid the cheaper lines like Delta, Price Phister etc.

12 years ago I replaced the shower valve with a Price Phister, and have had
to rebuild it completely twice now including the handles stems and seats.

Another thing I would suggest when you are going to all the work, swap out
the supply valves. I really like the new 1/4 turn ball valve style.

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

Thanks for those suggestions. I did have the plumber change out the
valves in the baths (both for the sinks and behind the new tub
durarock), but will also be sure to do that in the kitchen. I know
that the shower/tub valves were Moen, but not sure what the plumber
put in for the sinks....

BTW: Roger, I have to say that I really like your signature line.
Amusing!

In article om, "DLK" wrote:

Thanks for the imput everyone. I think I will stick with my local
plumbing supplier on the faucet for the reasons mentioned. I was
planning to go with one of the Grohe stainless models and the price
difference between local supplier and internet is rather large:
$100-200. It is tempting. Does anyone have thoughts about the Grohe
faucets, good or bad?

I had a Grohe faucet (about 7 years old) on my old sink.
When I replaced the sink last year, I removed the faucet
and cleaned it up. Grohe sent me a new mounting kit for
free which means I was able to reinstall it with new
gaskets/seals. It looks and works as new.

For the sink, I am doing the 1 1/2 bowl, undermount sink, so no deck
issue, and assume that I would be using one of the thicker gauges, I
guess it is 18. Given that, any suggestions on manufacturer?

Quality features to check for:

* Grade of steel
* Thickness of steel
* Sound deadening qualities

You probably can't go wrong with Kohler. That's what
I have and I'm very happy with it.


--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Mar 6, 10:44 am, (Malcolm Hoar) wrote:
In article om, "DLK" wrote:
Thanks for the imput everyone. I think I will stick with my local
plumbing supplier on the faucet for the reasons mentioned. I was
planning to go with one of the Grohe stainless models and the price
difference between local supplier and internet is rather large:
$100-200. It is tempting. Does anyone have thoughts about the Grohe
faucets, good or bad?

I had a Grohe faucet (about 7 years old) on my old sink.
When I replaced the sink last year, I removed the faucet
and cleaned it up. Grohe sent me a new mounting kit for
free which means I was able to reinstall it with new
gaskets/seals. It looks and works as new.

For the sink, I am doing the 1 1/2 bowl, undermount sink, so no deck
issue, and assume that I would be using one of the thicker gauges, I
guess it is 18. Given that, any suggestions on manufacturer?

Quality features to check for:

* Grade of steel
* Thickness of steel
* Sound deadening qualities

You probably can't go wrong with Kohler. That's what
I have and I'm very happy with it.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
|http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the info. I am impressed with your service experience with
Grohe. Will look into the Kohler sinks and keep those specific
features in mind.

the one I have pulled out from faucet neck. it is chrome plated.
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"oklaman" wrote in message ...
The pullout hose on my Kohler kitchen faucet recently stated leaking.

It is the type where the thing pulls out from the faucet neck itself, or
from the deck?

a bit off subject-
an electrician once told me that circuit breakers from Lowes/Hd are lower
quality than what he provides.

I noticed, while in the store once, that they do have different sets of
breakers; one set is higher priced and I assume higher quality.
"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...

"DLK" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue?


I recently had a plumber tell me the same thing. Although the faucets look
the same, they are not built the same. It makes sense. There would be a
lot of plumbing distributors upset if Home Depot sold the exact same items
for less.

It is the same for laminate flooring. The lines sold at Home Depot and
Lowes cannot be found at your local flooring store. Consequently you cannot
compare apples to apples when shopping for a good price.



And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,
checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.

On Mar 6, 11:11 am, "oklaman" wrote:
a bit off subject-
an electrician once told me that circuit breakers from Lowes/Hd are lower
quality than what he provides.

I noticed, while in the store once, that they do have different sets of
breakers; one set is higher priced and I assume higher quality."John Grabowski" wrote in message

...

"DLK" wrote in message

oups.com...

I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue?

I recently had a plumber tell me the same thing. Although the faucets look
the same, they are not built the same. It makes sense. There would be a
lot of plumbing distributors upset if Home Depot sold the exact same items
for less.

It is the same for laminate flooring. The lines sold at Home Depot and
Lowes cannot be found at your local flooring store. Consequently you cannot
compare apples to apples when shopping for a good price.

And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,



checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

an electrician once told me that circuit breakers from Lowes/Hd
are lower quality than what he provides.

On one hand, it does seem possible that there are quality differences,
but the skeptic in me keeps wondering if this isn't just a gimmick
that all trades people come up with to sell you their stuff? They
must make a profit in there somewhere when they buy from plumbing/
electrical supply places and sell to customers at list price.

"oklaman" wrote in message ...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"oklaman" wrote in message ...
The pullout hose on my Kohler kitchen faucet recently stated leaking.

It is the type where the thing pulls out from the faucet neck itself, or
from the deck?




the one I have pulled out from faucet neck. it is chrome plated.


OK. I always had doubts about those, for reasons I won't go into.

DLK wrote:

I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue? And, why, isn't this issue publicized more?

Because it isn't true. It doesn't make sense, either. A manufacturer
might sell different models through different channels, but marketing an
inferior version of the same model through big box retailers -- who have
a lot more clout with manufacturers than does a local plumbing supply
company -- would soon be discovered and do tremendous damage to the
manufacturer's and the retailer's reputation.

It's dangerous to rely on what local sales people tell you. Some of them
don't know what they're talking about, and some will say anything to
make a sale, especially if they get a commission based on sales.

On Mar 6, 8:04 am, "DLK" wrote:
I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue? And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,
checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.

Check out the Kohler web site for detailed info on sinks and faucets.
They list the guage of the sinks, which is vital for a good
installation, because for example, the better ones don't allow the
faucets to wobble. Another nice thing about Kohler is their fabulous
customer service. If you don't like the idea of doing it all over
every few years, IMO Kohler is the way to go. FWIW, I have bought
their products at the box stores and a local plumbing warehouse and
noted absolutely no difference. HTH

Joe

In article , (Neill Massello) wrote:
Because it isn't true. It doesn't make sense, either. A manufacturer
might sell different models through different channels, but marketing an
inferior version of the same model through big box retailers -- who have
a lot more clout with manufacturers than does a local plumbing supply
company -- would soon be discovered and do tremendous damage to the
manufacturer's and the retailer's reputation.

It is a fact that manufacturers do produce special (often cost
reduced) products for major retailers.

In my experience, they ALWAYS change the model number. And
frquently the brand/label. Aside from damage to reputation
there are often other practical issues -- service, spares
and the fact that warranty terms and/or procedures are
often different. Not to mention the fact that the maker
would have one hell of a time managing their finished
goods inventory.

I'd be very suprised indeed to find different products
with EXACTLY the same product number. I do know of cases
where the difference may be as small as a single letter
or digit suffix -- but there is a difference.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Mar 6, 3:51 pm, (Malcolm Hoar) wrote:
In article , (Neill Massello) wrote:

Because it isn't true. It doesn't make sense, either. A manufacturer
might sell different models through different channels, but marketing an
inferior version of the same model through big box retailers -- who have
a lot more clout with manufacturers than does a local plumbing supply
company -- would soon be discovered and do tremendous damage to the
manufacturer's and the retailer's reputation.

It is a fact that manufacturers do produce special (often cost
reduced) products for major retailers.

In my experience, they ALWAYS change the model number. And
frquently the brand/label. Aside from damage to reputation
there are often other practical issues -- service, spares
and the fact that warranty terms and/or procedures are
often different. Not to mention the fact that the maker
would have one hell of a time managing their finished
goods inventory.

I'd be very suprised indeed to find different products
with EXACTLY the same product number. I do know of cases
where the difference may be as small as a single letter
or digit suffix -- but there is a difference.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
|http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is all very informative. I suppose one must look at the exact
model number when making these decisions to make valid comparisions,
rather than just the name of the model.

BTW: the Kohler website info was very helpful. Thanks!

"DLK" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 6, 3:51 pm, (Malcolm Hoar) wrote:
In article ,
(Neill Massello) wrote:

Because it isn't true. It doesn't make sense, either. A manufacturer
might sell different models through different channels, but marketing an
inferior version of the same model through big box retailers -- who have
a lot more clout with manufacturers than does a local plumbing supply
company -- would soon be discovered and do tremendous damage to the
manufacturer's and the retailer's reputation.

It is a fact that manufacturers do produce special (often cost
reduced) products for major retailers.

In my experience, they ALWAYS change the model number. And
frquently the brand/label. Aside from damage to reputation
there are often other practical issues -- service, spares
and the fact that warranty terms and/or procedures are
often different. Not to mention the fact that the maker
would have one hell of a time managing their finished
goods inventory.

I'd be very suprised indeed to find different products
with EXACTLY the same product number. I do know of cases
where the difference may be as small as a single letter
or digit suffix -- but there is a difference.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
|http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is all very informative. I suppose one must look at the exact
model number when making these decisions to make valid comparisions,
rather than just the name of the model.

BTW: the Kohler website info was very helpful. Thanks!



I found the Moen site to be a frustrating pain in the ass. I ended up going
to a store for a catalog. There were things in the catalog that were buried
83 links deep on the web site. If you don't see something you like, get a
catalog.

"oklaman" wrote in message ...
a bit off subject-
an electrician once told me that circuit breakers from Lowes/Hd are lower
quality than what he provides.

I noticed, while in the store once, that they do have different sets of
breakers; one set is higher priced and I assume higher quality.


I noticed that once in Home Depot. I looked closely at the each set of
breakers and the higher priced model was approved for universal mounting.
You can tell by the slot in the back.



"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...

"DLK" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am preparing to renovate my kitchen and will be purchasing a new
stainless sink and faucet. I was told by the salesperson in a local
plumbing supply company that there are differences in the quality of
faucets sold in plumbing stores vs. large chain stores (like Home
Depot) and internet retailers. She noted that they look the same, but
have different internal parts and there may also be warranty issues
with the manufacturer with online purchases. There seems to be a
large price difference as well. Does anyone know more about this
issue?


I recently had a plumber tell me the same thing. Although the faucets
look
the same, they are not built the same. It makes sense. There would be a
lot of plumbing distributors upset if Home Depot sold the exact same items
for less.

It is the same for laminate flooring. The lines sold at Home Depot and
Lowes cannot be found at your local flooring store. Consequently you
cannot
compare apples to apples when shopping for a good price.



And, why, isn't this issue publicized more? For example,
checked out the Consumer Reports (C.R.) website and they make no
mention of this on their faucet ratings.

Also, C.R. does a feature on sinks and basically says that there is
little difference among brands within each type of sink (stainless vs
enamel, etc.). Does anyone have suggestions on a quality manufacturer
for a stainless steel 1 1/2 bowl sink for 33 in sink base. Was
looking at Blanco, Elkay, and Am Standard.

Thanks.

In article .com, "DLK" wrote:

This is all very informative. I suppose one must look at the exact
model number when making these decisions to make valid comparisions,
rather than just the name of the model.

BTW: the Kohler website info was very helpful. Thanks!

On this theme... when I was shopping for a new sink, I
found that:

* Home Depot offered a *much* wider choice than Lowes.

* Home Depot had really good prices on a handful of Kohler
sinks. I do believe these were standard Kohler products
and not HD specials.

* Other Kohler models were relatively expensive at HD.

* Kohler have a really wide choice of geometries, sizes,
mountings etc. Hardly anyone else was offering exactly
what I wanted so going with Kohler was pretty much a
no-brainer for me.

I took a chance and ordered a Kohler from some discount
place on the opposite side of the country. It took
3-4 weeks before I received the thing but it arrived
in perfect condition. The shipping delay was not a
problem for me -- it still arrived well before scheduled
installation. But it could have been. At the end of the
day, I saved two or three hundred bucks on a high
quality sink that has worked out great!

The granite guys installed/mounted the sink but I
did all of the plumbing work and the disposal. With
some very careful planning that was a breeze. The
granite guys cleared out in the early evening and
the plumbing was finished before I went to bed.
Sink, faucet, disposal, dishwasher, air gap, soap
dispenser and the whole nine yards. Even cleaned
everything up. That was 6 months ago and no leaks
or problems yet ;-)

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~