I finally bit the bullet and did it. I replaced all my hot water lines with
PEX. This is one of those jobs I'd been pussyfooting around with. But
today for some reason I finally got the gumption up to do the entire job the
proper way.

What a colossal pain in the ass that was. It wasn't the PEX that was a
pain, it was getting rid of the galvanized that was the pain. Crouched down
in the crawlspace with the spiders whacking away at the foundation for 2
hours to open up the concrete just enough to get rid of a single 1/2" elbow
that was buried in a 6" beam on top of the foundation. I don't fear spiders
any more after that ordeal. The rest of the hour was spent pulling 3/4" PEX
line through that hole in the foundation and hoping the PEX wouldn't snag on
a nail or sharp rock. I ripped the hell out of the sheetrock in the garage
stringing the PEX up to the water heater - no biggie I'm replacing it all
anyway. I turned on the juice and voila - I forgot to crimp the 3/4" inlet
into my manifold. The amount of water was dramatic - especially since my
water is about 30 psi, maybe more. So after crimping that I tried again and
this time no problems so far. I have 2 lines that I suspect need to be
corrected, but I'll have to get to them later - the crimp ring is a little
too far away from the fitting for my comfort.

The difference in water pressure is astonishing - I can actually take a
shower without cranking up the hot water tap all the way. I might even be
able to turn down the water temp on the heater - right now its at 160 F to
compensate for the lack of pressure I was getting.

I tell you one thing, I had the 3/4" line suspended from J hangers in the
crawlspace to keep it relatively supported, after turning on the water the
PEX line sagged and expanded dramatically. It almost makes me wonder if I
should go back in and use something other than J hangers.

I ought to upload some photos of this, assuming it holds I'm pretty proud of
this job.

Anytime I do plumbing without drowning someone I pretty proud too.

It really isn't my thing.

You should be proud of yourself for being able to do all of that
withough having to deal with a plumber. In so far as your J hanger
question, would it work better if you used more if the hangers? I'm
having trouble picturing this.

I had my own plumbing adventure over the weekend, includung my first
attempt to solder copper pipes. I can say that my vast experience
dealing electrical soldering electrical stuff helped a ton. I didn't
even bother practicing and everything worked great.

I'll never run a hot water line again without double insulating it.

What a tremendous waste of water and electricity/gas and comfort!







On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:04:31 -0800, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

I finally bit the bullet and did it. I replaced all my hot water lines with
PEX. This is one of those jobs I'd been pussyfooting around with. But
today for some reason I finally got the gumption up to do the entire job the
proper way.

What a colossal pain in the ass that was. It wasn't the PEX that was a
pain, it was getting rid of the galvanized that was the pain. Crouched down
in the crawlspace with the spiders whacking away at the foundation for 2
hours to open up the concrete just enough to get rid of a single 1/2" elbow
that was buried in a 6" beam on top of the foundation. I don't fear spiders
any more after that ordeal. The rest of the hour was spent pulling 3/4" PEX
line through that hole in the foundation and hoping the PEX wouldn't snag on
a nail or sharp rock. I ripped the hell out of the sheetrock in the garage
stringing the PEX up to the water heater - no biggie I'm replacing it all
anyway. I turned on the juice and voila - I forgot to crimp the 3/4" inlet
into my manifold. The amount of water was dramatic - especially since my
water is about 30 psi, maybe more. So after crimping that I tried again and
this time no problems so far. I have 2 lines that I suspect need to be
corrected, but I'll have to get to them later - the crimp ring is a little
too far away from the fitting for my comfort.

The difference in water pressure is astonishing - I can actually take a
shower without cranking up the hot water tap all the way. I might even be
able to turn down the water temp on the heater - right now its at 160 F to
compensate for the lack of pressure I was getting.

I tell you one thing, I had the 3/4" line suspended from J hangers in the
crawlspace to keep it relatively supported, after turning on the water the
PEX line sagged and expanded dramatically. It almost makes me wonder if I
should go back in and use something other than J hangers.

I ought to upload some photos of this, assuming it holds I'm pretty proud of
this job.

On 2007-03-05, Deke wrote:

I'll never run a hot water line again without double insulating it.
What a tremendous waste of water and electricity/gas and comfort!

"Double" insulating it? Wayne

Deke wrote:

I'll never run a hot water line again without double insulating it.

What a tremendous waste of water and electricity/gas and comfort!

Nah. The water in the pipe will quickly cool when the flow stops,
even with "double insulation" :-)

Nick

On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:04:31 -0800, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

I finally bit the bullet and did it. I replaced all my hot water lines with
PEX. This is one of those jobs I'd been pussyfooting around with. But
today for some reason I finally got the gumption up to do the entire job the
proper way.

What a colossal pain in the ass that was. It wasn't the PEX that was a
pain, it was getting rid of the galvanized that was the pain. Crouched down
in the crawlspace with the spiders whacking away at the foundation for 2
hours to open up the concrete just enough to get rid of a single 1/2" elbow
that was buried in a 6" beam on top of the foundation. I don't fear spiders
any more after that ordeal. The rest of the hour was spent pulling 3/4" PEX
line through that hole in the foundation and hoping the PEX wouldn't snag on
a nail or sharp rock. I ripped the hell out of the sheetrock in the garage
stringing the PEX up to the water heater - no biggie I'm replacing it all
anyway. I turned on the juice and voila - I forgot to crimp the 3/4" inlet
into my manifold. The amount of water was dramatic - especially since my
water is about 30 psi, maybe more. So after crimping that I tried again and
this time no problems so far. I have 2 lines that I suspect need to be
corrected, but I'll have to get to them later - the crimp ring is a little
too far away from the fitting for my comfort.

The difference in water pressure is astonishing - I can actually take a
shower without cranking up the hot water tap all the way. I might even be
able to turn down the water temp on the heater - right now its at 160 F to
compensate for the lack of pressure I was getting.

I tell you one thing, I had the 3/4" line suspended from J hangers in the
crawlspace to keep it relatively supported, after turning on the water the
PEX line sagged and expanded dramatically. It almost makes me wonder if I
should go back in and use something other than J hangers.

My system (Vanguard recommends) 7 inches of slack every 50 foot.
Horizontally supported every 32 inches.....using tubing clamps of the
proper size.

You mentioned a crawl space. The PEX needs to be protected from
freezing.

I ought to upload some photos of this, assuming it holds I'm pretty proud of
this job.





--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

On 5 Mar 2007 12:04:48 -0500, wrote:

Deke wrote:

I'll never run a hot water line again without double insulating it.

What a tremendous waste of water and electricity/gas and comfort!

Nah. The water in the pipe will quickly cool when the flow stops,
even with "double insulation" :-)

Nick

Not the case at all. The hot water remains hot for hours in my
remote bath. It is so nice!

Deke wrote:

I'll never run a hot water line again without double insulating it.

What a tremendous waste of water and electricity/gas and comfort!

Nah. The water in the pipe will quickly cool when the flow stops,
even with "double insulation" :-)

Not the case at all. The hot water remains hot for hours in my
remote bath. It is so nice!

You live on an unusual planet.

Nick

I would support it more often then every 32 inches, but that's just
me.

I am also curious about the double insulation??

On 5 Mar 2007 10:26:49 -0800, wrote:

I would support it more often then every 32 inches, but that's just
me.

I am also curious about the double insulation??

Very simple really,

Use the 4 ft foam insulation sticks from home depot. Then wrap
that with 3 1/2 " fiberglass wall insulation in a spiral, and finally
wrap clear plastic (loosely so as not to over compress the fiberglass)
around that to hold it all together.

Water sitting in the pipe stays hot/warm for hours after a shower.

"Deke" wrote in message
...
On 5 Mar 2007 10:26:49 -0800, wrote:

I would support it more often then every 32 inches, but that's just
me.

I am also curious about the double insulation??

Very simple really,

Use the 4 ft foam insulation sticks from home depot. Then wrap
that with 3 1/2 " fiberglass wall insulation in a spiral, and finally
wrap clear plastic (loosely so as not to over compress the fiberglass)
around that to hold it all together.

Water sitting in the pipe stays hot/warm for hours after a shower.

I just read on the Taco web site (they make the hot water circulating pumps)
that plain tubing loses 60 Btu per hour per foot while insulated pipe loses
30 Btu per hour per foot.

On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:45:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Deke" wrote in message
.. .
On 5 Mar 2007 10:26:49 -0800, wrote:

I would support it more often then every 32 inches, but that's just
me.

I am also curious about the double insulation??

Very simple really,

Use the 4 ft foam insulation sticks from home depot. Then wrap
that with 3 1/2 " fiberglass wall insulation in a spiral, and finally
wrap clear plastic (loosely so as not to over compress the fiberglass)
around that to hold it all together.

Water sitting in the pipe stays hot/warm for hours after a shower.

I just read on the Taco web site (they make the hot water circulating pumps)
that plain tubing loses 60 Btu per hour per foot while insulated pipe loses
30 Btu per hour per foot.

Mine doesn't

"Deke" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:45:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Deke" wrote in message
. ..
On 5 Mar 2007 10:26:49 -0800, wrote:


I just read on the Taco web site (they make the hot water circulating
pumps)
that plain tubing loses 60 Btu per hour per foot while insulated pipe
loses
30 Btu per hour per foot.

Mine doesn't



There has to be some heat loss in moving water through tubing. What method
of measurement are you using to arrive at 0% loss.

Bill

Deke wrote:

wrote:

I would support it more often then every 32 inches, but that's just me.

I am also curious about the double insulation??

Very simple really,

Use the 4 ft foam insulation sticks from home depot. Then wrap
that with 3 1/2 " fiberglass wall insulation in a spiral, and finally
wrap clear plastic (loosely so as not to over compress the fiberglass)
around that to hold it all together.

Water sitting in the pipe stays hot/warm for hours after a shower.

It's a miracle! If 1" of US R5 insulation + 3.5" of R11 insulation has
a R16x12/4.5 = 42.6 ft^2-h-F/Btu thermal resistance, ie k = 1/42.6
= 0.0234 and 1' of 1/2" pipe has R = ln(4.5/0.5)/(2Pik) = 14.9 h-F/Btu
and C = Pi(0.5/24)^2x62.33 = 0.085 Btu/F and RC = 1.27 hours, 120 F
pipe water would cool to 70+(120-70)e^(-3/1.27) = 74.7 in a 70 F room.

Nick

"Deke" wrote in message
I just read on the Taco web site (they make the hot water circulating
pumps)
that plain tubing loses 60 Btu per hour per foot while insulated pipe
loses
30 Btu per hour per foot.

Mine doesn't

Oh, it is losing something. Certainly the extra insulation helps, but there
is a loss.

wrote in message
...
Deke wrote:

wrote:

I would support it more often then every 32 inches, but that's just me.

I am also curious about the double insulation??

Very simple really,

Use the 4 ft foam insulation sticks from home depot. Then wrap
that with 3 1/2 " fiberglass wall insulation in a spiral, and finally
wrap clear plastic (loosely so as not to over compress the fiberglass)
around that to hold it all together.

Water sitting in the pipe stays hot/warm for hours after a shower.

It's a miracle! If 1" of US R5 insulation + 3.5" of R11 insulation has
a R16x12/4.5 = 42.6 ft^2-h-F/Btu thermal resistance, ie k = 1/42.6
= 0.0234 and 1' of 1/2" pipe has R = ln(4.5/0.5)/(2Pik) = 14.9 h-F/Btu
and C = Pi(0.5/24)^2x62.33 = 0.085 Btu/F and RC = 1.27 hours, 120 F
pipe water would cool to 70+(120-70)e^(-3/1.27) = 74.7 in a 70 F room.

Nick


At least your toughts are readable !

Bill

I just read on the Taco web site (they make the hot water circulating
pumps)
that plain tubing loses 60 Btu per hour per foot while insulated pipe
loses
30 Btu per hour per foot.

Mine doesn't



There has to be some heat loss in moving water through tubing. What method
of measurement are you using to arrive at 0% loss.


Failed your reading comprehension, didn't you?

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...


I just read on the Taco web site (they make the hot water circulating
pumps)
that plain tubing loses 60 Btu per hour per foot while insulated pipe
loses
30 Btu per hour per foot.

Mine doesn't



There has to be some heat loss in moving water through tubing. What
method
of measurement are you using to arrive at 0% loss.


Failed your reading comprehension, didn't you?




The comment about heat loss re-enforced the comment from the Taco site.
Where's the flaw in comprehension?

Bill

On Thu, 8 Mar 2007 16:54:30 -0500, "Berkshire Bill"
wrote:


"Goedjn" wrote in message
.. .


I just read on the Taco web site (they make the hot water circulating
pumps)
that plain tubing loses 60 Btu per hour per foot while insulated pipe
loses
30 Btu per hour per foot.

Mine doesn't



There has to be some heat loss in moving water through tubing. What
method
of measurement are you using to arrive at 0% loss.


Failed your reading comprehension, didn't you?




The comment about heat loss re-enforced the comment from the Taco site.
Where's the flaw in comprehension?


Conflating "not losing 30 BTU/ft/hr" with "0%" heat loss?