Hello,

I was wondering if anyone would take a moment and help here.

I have a 3 year old water heater (will get information on it on demand)

Problem is that it seems to pop the circut breaker at times, sometimes 1x a
day (or once every 3 days) and then it didnt pop the past week.

Resets easily. Except for today where it made a occasional pop noise from
the heater wall. Also dims the lights, when it pops, smf when it does pop
nothing else is off.

Any suggestions or do I need to buy a new one?

Thank you for your time.

John

JohnA wrote:
Hello,

I was wondering if anyone would take a moment and help here.

I have a 3 year old water heater (will get information on it on demand)

Problem is that it seems to pop the circut breaker at times, sometimes 1x a
day (or once every 3 days) and then it didnt pop the past week.

Resets easily. Except for today where it made a occasional pop noise from
the heater wall. Also dims the lights, when it pops, smf when it does pop
nothing else is off.

Any suggestions or do I need to buy a new one?

Thank you for your time.

John



You didn't specifically say it is an electric water heater, but assuming
it is, then...

Chances are a heater element (your heater may use one or two, you didn't
specify that either) has developed a electrical short to its case and
that's what's making the breaker pop.

If you know what you're doing, then use a clamp on ammeter to measure
the element(s) current(s) when their thermostat(s) are powering them on
and see if it jives with their wattage. If if the current is too high
you're onto something.

Alternatively, open the circuit breaker and remove both leads from the
element(s). Use an ohmmeter to see if you can spot leakage from the
element terminals to ground. If you measure less than 100K ohms, you're
onto something there too.

If the above doesn't make sense to you fughedit and call a pro.

Jeff


--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

"JohnA" u32227@uwe wrote in message news:6ea921363b955@uwe...
Hello,

I was wondering if anyone would take a moment and help here.

I have a 3 year old water heater (will get information on it on demand)

Problem is that it seems to pop the circut breaker at times, sometimes
1x a
day (or once every 3 days) and then it didnt pop the past week.

Resets easily. Except for today where it made a occasional pop noise
from
the heater wall. Also dims the lights, when it pops, smf when it does
pop
nothing else is off.

Any suggestions or do I need to buy a new one?

Thank you for your time.

John


The first step is to determine what the problem is. There are three
possibilities.

First possibility is that one of the elements in the water heater is
shorting and drawing too much current.

Second possibility is that there is a problem in the wire running between
the breaker and the heater.

And lastly the breaker is faulty.

I would kill the power to the heater, then remove the cable from the water
heater. Assuming you have two elements, pull the covers off of both and
remove the wires from both of them. Using the ohm meter measure the
resistance on each, it should be pretty close to the same for both. If one
of them has a lot lower resistance then that is likely your trouble.

If they check out OK, then first check that there is no continuity on the
two wires that were attached to the heater (breaker still off, heater still
disconnected, and that there is no continuity from either wire to ground.

If that test holds, then your wires are probably OK.

Reconnect the heater.

If you have another 240 breaker of the same rating for your stove or
something else you can swap the two breakers between the circuits (if you
know how and feel comfortable doing this.) if the problem goes away or
reoccurs on the other circuit then the breaker is suspect.

If you have not found the problem by now, it is either time for the
electrician or perhaps you could disconnect one of the two elements in the
water heater and see if the problem goes away, if it does not then try
running only the other element.

I am no expert, but this should isolate your problem. I suspect one of the
elements is the most likely suspect. If that is the case you will probably
need a 1/2 inch drive socket of the appropriate size (get a size point) and
a breaker bar. Heating the thing with a torch is also a good idea.

Be sure to kill the power, then drain the tank, then replace the element,
then refill the tank, then reenergize the circuit. If you don't do it just
that way you will wish you had.

Good luck.

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

The circuit stayed fine thru the night, I ran some hot water and cautiously
opened the 2 panels on it to see if I could examine anything out of place and
(not knowing or touching anything) but it did make a pop/knock sound in the
tank while looking at the tank.

I put the panels back and it brings a question to mind...
Why are there 2 thermostats on the tank?

Tank info: I do not see a year on it.
Raheem for manufactured homes, model 71-52d b,
wattage 240/208 upper and lower 4500/3380
50 gal and yes it has a double circuit switch.
John

--
Message posted via HomeKB.com
http://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

On Mar 4, 8:00�am, "JohnA via HomeKB.com" u32227@uwe wrote:
The circuit stayed fine thru the night, I ran some hot water and cautiously
opened the 2 panels on it to see if I could examine anything out of place and
(not knowing or touching anything) but it did make a pop/knock sound in the
tank while looking at the tank.

I put the panels back and it brings a question to mind...
Why are there 2 thermostats on the tank?

Tank info: *I do not see a year on it.
Raheem for manufactured homes, model 71-52d b,
wattage 240/208 upper and lower 4500/3380 *
* * * 50 gal *and yes it has a double circuit switch.

John

--
Message posted via HomeKB.comhttp://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

Call rheem for production date

Most likely you have a baD BREAKER THEY ARE DESIGNED TO GET MORE
SENSITIVE AS THEY AGE.

I would begin by replacing breaker its a low cost repair

If he has a popping sound at the tank, the circuit breaker would be the
least likely problem




wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 4, 8:00?am, "JohnA via HomeKB.com" u32227@uwe wrote:
The circuit stayed fine thru the night, I ran some hot water and
cautiously
opened the 2 panels on it to see if I could examine anything out of place
and
(not knowing or touching anything) but it did make a pop/knock sound in
the
tank while looking at the tank.

I put the panels back and it brings a question to mind...
Why are there 2 thermostats on the tank?

Tank info: I do not see a year on it.
Raheem for manufactured homes, model 71-52d b,
wattage 240/208 upper and lower 4500/3380
50 gal and yes it has a double circuit switch.

John

--
Message posted via
HomeKB.comhttp://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

Call rheem for production date

Most likely you have a baD BREAKER THEY ARE DESIGNED TO GET MORE
SENSITIVE AS THEY AGE.

I would begin by replacing breaker its a low cost repair

On Mar 4, 9:04�am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
If he has a popping sound at the tank, the circuit breaker would be the
least likely problem

wrote in message

oups.com...
On Mar 4, 8:00?am, "JohnA via HomeKB.com" u32227@uwe wrote:





The circuit stayed fine thru the night, I ran some hot water and
cautiously
opened the 2 panels on it to see if I could examine anything out of place
and
(not knowing or touching anything) but it did make a pop/knock sound in
the
tank while looking at the tank.

I put the panels back and it brings a question to mind...
Why are there 2 thermostats on the tank?

Tank info: I do not see a year on it.
Raheem for manufactured homes, model 71-52d b,
wattage 240/208 upper and lower 4500/3380
* *50 gal and yes it has a double circuit switch.

John

--
Message posted via
HomeKB.comhttp://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

Call rheem for production date

Most likely you have a baD BREAKER THEY ARE DESIGNED TO GET MORE
SENSITIVE AS THEY AGE.

I would begin by replacing breaker its a low cost repair- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

pop[ping sound may be water boiling in tank, breaker is most
likely....

bad element would likely be trip often...

intermittent bad breaker

" I would begin by replacing breaker its a low cost repair"

I suppose you would then move on the next least expensive thing, like the
upper element, then the lower element, then the lower thermostat, then the
upper, and ultimately the feeder cable, and eventually one of your guesses
would pay off?

I'd go with Roger and Jeff, who actually give info on how to diagnose the
problem, instead of senselessly throwing part after part at it







wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 4, 9:04?am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
If he has a popping sound at the tank, the circuit breaker would be the
least likely problem

wrote in message

oups.com...
On Mar 4, 8:00?am, "JohnA via HomeKB.com" u32227@uwe wrote:





The circuit stayed fine thru the night, I ran some hot water and
cautiously
opened the 2 panels on it to see if I could examine anything out of
place
and
(not knowing or touching anything) but it did make a pop/knock sound in
the
tank while looking at the tank.

I put the panels back and it brings a question to mind...
Why are there 2 thermostats on the tank?

Tank info: I do not see a year on it.
Raheem for manufactured homes, model 71-52d b,
wattage 240/208 upper and lower 4500/3380
50 gal and yes it has a double circuit switch.

John

--
Message posted via
HomeKB.comhttp://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

Call rheem for production date

Most likely you have a baD BREAKER THEY ARE DESIGNED TO GET MORE
SENSITIVE AS THEY AGE.

I would begin by replacing breaker its a low cost repair- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

pop[ping sound may be water boiling in tank, breaker is most
likely....

bad element would likely be trip often...

intermittent bad breaker

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 04:45:08 GMT, "JohnA" u32227@uwe wrote:

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone would take a moment and help here.

I have a 3 year old water heater (will get information on it on demand)

Problem is that it seems to pop the circut breaker at times, sometimes 1x a
day (or once every 3 days) and then it didnt pop the past week.

Resets easily. Except for today where it made a occasional pop noise from
the heater wall. Also dims the lights, when it pops, smf when it does pop
nothing else is off.

Any suggestions or do I need to buy a new one?

Thank you for your time.

John

imho:

You might have something that is beyond just a DIY fix. I was told by
an electrician, that a water heater breaker kept tripping, and the
home owner was mad. So he checked it out, the breaker was the right
size, but the wires were undersized, causing localized heatin at the
breakers terminal and tripping. Good thing the home owner said
something, that sounds like a potential fire problem.

In short, get a quick check by an electrician, the breakers might by
'old' or something.

tom @ www.Consolidated-Loans.info

Have you known a gas water heater that was hooked to electricity?????

--
Steve Barker




"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..



You didn't specifically say it is an electric water heater, but assuming
it is, then...


Jeff


--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

John, aside from testing the various parts to determine the cause of the
problem, also check the conductor size and circuit breaker size. Your water
heater requires a #10 copper feed cable and a double pole 30 amp circuit
breaker




"JohnA via HomeKB.com" u32227@uwe wrote in message
news:6ead73822f095@uwe...
The circuit stayed fine thru the night, I ran some hot water and
cautiously
opened the 2 panels on it to see if I could examine anything out of place
and
(not knowing or touching anything) but it did make a pop/knock sound in
the
tank while looking at the tank.

I put the panels back and it brings a question to mind...
Why are there 2 thermostats on the tank?

Tank info: I do not see a year on it.
Raheem for manufactured homes, model 71-52d b,
wattage 240/208 upper and lower 4500/3380
50 gal and yes it has a double circuit switch.
John

--
Message posted via HomeKB.com
http://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

Power vent





"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
Have you known a gas water heater that was hooked to electricity?????

--
Steve Barker




"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..



You didn't specifically say it is an electric water heater, but assuming
it is, then...


Jeff


--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

Steve Barker wrote:
Have you known a gas water heater that was hooked to electricity?????


All of them are, unless you have an old one with a pilot light.
Nowadays they all have complete shutoff of the gas when not in use, and
electric controls for same.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Again sorry to forget to put all the information in

It is an electric hot water heater. 50 gallon one. made in 2001
the breakers say 25 on the 2 of them

The tank would only pop once... 'just a single pop'. Like at no
particular time just random off the wall times would it pop (the most was 3
in a day). Loud enough to hear in the other room.
When the kids take showers, I would sit in the kitchen to listen it fire up
and it would work fine, it SEEMS to do this when it isnt really doing
anything (probably gets bored and wants attention). I was once sorta close
to it today when it did pop and it seemed to be in the middle of the tank but
i cannot be sure of it.

You guys are awsome to help me do this and I WILL NOT do anything that is
dangerous to me or my family, I REALLY appreciate all your ideas.

I have called the company and they told me to disconnect the bottom element
(I wont do it until i get some wire caps tho and when turn the breaker off)
to see if it still sets the breaker off. I need to get an OHM meter and
check the elements first.

Which I will have no idea if that works because like I said before it trips
the breaker when it feels like it and it makes that 1 TIME pop noise just a
little more then the breaker.

--
Message posted via HomeKB.com
http://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

A double pole 25 amp is fine. One thing you may try first is a visual check.
Kill the power to the unit and confirm it's off, open both panels and clear
away any insulation. Check for any visible burned wires or thermostats or
terminals on the heating elements




"JohnA via HomeKB.com" u32227@uwe wrote in message
news:6eafafde22581@uwe...
Again sorry to forget to put all the information in

It is an electric hot water heater. 50 gallon one. made in 2001
the breakers say 25 on the 2 of them

The tank would only pop once... 'just a single pop'. Like at no
particular time just random off the wall times would it pop (the most was
3
in a day). Loud enough to hear in the other room.
When the kids take showers, I would sit in the kitchen to listen it fire
up
and it would work fine, it SEEMS to do this when it isnt really doing
anything (probably gets bored and wants attention). I was once sorta
close
to it today when it did pop and it seemed to be in the middle of the tank
but
i cannot be sure of it.

You guys are awsome to help me do this and I WILL NOT do anything that is
dangerous to me or my family, I REALLY appreciate all your ideas.

I have called the company and they told me to disconnect the bottom
element
(I wont do it until i get some wire caps tho and when turn the breaker
off)
to see if it still sets the breaker off. I need to get an OHM meter and
check the elements first.

Which I will have no idea if that works because like I said before it
trips
the breaker when it feels like it and it makes that 1 TIME pop noise just
a
little more then the breaker.

--
Message posted via HomeKB.com
http://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

I looked at the wires and they say

"E18679 (UL) AWG 10 CU 2 CDR with AWG 10 Ground type NM-B 600 Volts"
and the 2 connected breakers say "25" on both of them

--
Message posted via HomeKB.com
http://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

Typically, it would be AWG # 10 on a double 30 as it's a more readily
available breaker, but the amperage of a 4500 watt heater is 18.75 , which
makes a double 25 just fine



"JohnA via HomeKB.com" u32227@uwe wrote in message
news:6eafce5e4b265@uwe...
I looked at the wires and they say

"E18679 (UL) AWG 10 CU 2 CDR with AWG 10 Ground type NM-B 600 Volts"
and the 2 connected breakers say "25" on both of them

--
Message posted via HomeKB.com
http://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 10:41:33 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Steve Barker wrote:
Have you known a gas water heater that was hooked to electricity?????


All of them are, unless you have an old one with a pilot light.
Nowadays they all have complete shutoff of the gas when not in use, and
electric controls for same.

nate

I got a new (gas) water heater installed last year. There is no
electrical connection. One new thing, there's a button to push to
light it.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask be to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On Mar 4, 9:29 am, "Steve Barker" wrote:
Have you known a gas water heater that was hooked to electricity?????

--
Steve Barker

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message

. ..



You didn't specifically say it is an electric water heater, but assuming
it is, then...

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

My power vent gas water heater is, as all have to be, and I am sure
that the on demand gas ones are the same way. Duh!

JK

On Mar 4, 9:41 am, Nate Nagel wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
Have you known a gas water heater that was hooked to electricity?????

All of them are, unless you have an old one with a pilot light.
Nowadays they all have complete shutoff of the gas when not in use, and
electric controls for same.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

What planet do you live on? Go to Menards/Lowes/Home Depot and see
how few require electricity, and how many have pilot lights.

JK

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 4, 9:04?am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
If he has a popping sound at the tank, the circuit breaker would be the
least likely problem

wrote in message

oups.com...
On Mar 4, 8:00?am, "JohnA via HomeKB.com" u32227@uwe wrote:





The circuit stayed fine thru the night, I ran some hot water and
cautiously
opened the 2 panels on it to see if I could examine anything out of
place
and
(not knowing or touching anything) but it did make a pop/knock sound in
the
tank while looking at the tank.

I put the panels back and it brings a question to mind...
Why are there 2 thermostats on the tank?

Tank info: I do not see a year on it.
Raheem for manufactured homes, model 71-52d b,
wattage 240/208 upper and lower 4500/3380
50 gal and yes it has a double circuit switch.

John

--
Message posted via
HomeKB.comhttp://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

Call rheem for production date

Most likely you have a baD BREAKER THEY ARE DESIGNED TO GET MORE
SENSITIVE AS THEY AGE.

I would begin by replacing breaker its a low cost repair- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

pop[ping sound may be water boiling in tank, breaker is most
likely....

bad element would likely be trip often...

intermittent bad breaker


One thing says no to the bad breaker, lights dimming. That indicates a
wiring problem causing a heavy drain.

"JohnA via HomeKB.com" u32227@uwe wrote in message
news:6eafafde22581@uwe...
Again sorry to forget to put all the information in

It is an electric hot water heater. 50 gallon one. made in 2001
the breakers say 25 on the 2 of them


25 amp seems low. I have a 30 gallon and a 30 amp breaker. Make sure this
is the correct size. Go to
http://waterheating.rheem.com/Docume.../AP10414-9.pdf
to find out what the breaker size needs to be. On the label it should say
how many watts the heater is rated for.

"JohnA via HomeKB.com" u32227@uwe writes:

I put the panels back and it brings a question to mind...
Why are there 2 thermostats on the tank?

There are 2 elements as well, with different roles.

Normally, when you draw some hot water from the top of the tank, cold
enters at the bottom. The bottom thermostat detects the drop in
temperature and turns on the lower element. This reheats the entire
tank, slowly. Hot water rises within the tank from the bottom element,
mixing up the tank contents until the entire tank is hot. Because
you're heating the whole tank, it takes a while.

If you use a lot of hot water, and the cold water reaches the upper
thermostat, then it turns on the upper element. The job of the upper
element is to quickly reheat a small volume of water, the water between
the upper element and the top of the tank.

Many hot water tanks have the upper thermostat wired to disconnect the
lower element when the upper element comes on, to limit the maximum
current drawn. So when you draw most of the hot water out of the tank,
the upper element heats up just the top part of the tank until it's hot
enough, then the lower element takes over until the whole tank is hot,
then both are off.

Dave

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Steve Barker wrote:
Have you known a gas water heater that was hooked to electricity?????


All of them are, unless you have an old one with a pilot light. Nowadays
they all have complete shutoff of the gas when not in use, and electric
controls for same.

nate

B S

Well I opened the tank up after not working today and opened the panels and
found mositure on the tank leading down to the element after opening the
panel. Upon further inspection I see that there is a pool of water at the
bottom.

I assume I have a crack in the tank? and this is shorting out the breakers?

John

--
Message posted via HomeKB.com
http://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

Try drying off the part of the tank where the thermostats and elements are.
The water could be coming through a bad heating element. If so, it should be
noticeable




"JohnA via HomeKB.com" u32227@uwe wrote in message
news:6eb4f451b9660@uwe...
Well I opened the tank up after not working today and opened the panels
and
found mositure on the tank leading down to the element after opening the
panel. Upon further inspection I see that there is a pool of water at the
bottom.

I assume I have a crack in the tank? and this is shorting out the
breakers?

John

--
Message posted via HomeKB.com
http://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

I did notice that the lower heating element was dripping and I wiped it off,
as of now it seems ok, I also noticed a pool of water in the bottom which I
am in the process of drying that up.

Problem now is that I am running the hot water and the tank isnt firing up.

I do not have a OHM tester but I did take a black wire off the bottom and
touched it back onto the screw and it does show a sign of a spark of life.

time to call the man tomorrow I suppose. But thanks to all you It must be
the lower heating element.

--
Message posted via HomeKB.com
http://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200703/1

The first time I bought a new heating element, the AOSmith supplier
gave me a tip.

Don't bother draining the tank, even for the bottom element. Turn off
the power, turn off the main water supply, and open the hot water
faucet at the lowest sink in the house. The water will run for a
while, and then it will stop. If it doesnt' stop, try to turn off the
main water supply again (but mine stopped within a minute or two.)

Then position the new heating element where you can reach it
immediately, unscrew the old one and as quickly as possible, remove it
and put the new one in, and screw it in. The time when there is
nothing in the hole is 3 seconds or less, and I would guess about 2
tablespoons of water fell into the water heater insulation. I left
the cover off for a couple weeks to give it time to dry.

Everything went like a charm. I think I have to replace another one
this week. If anyone wants to know how it goes this time, ask.

This was a screw-in element, but it might work as well with a bolt-on.



On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 09:40:28 -0600, Gerry Atrick
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 13:00:02 GMT, "JohnA via HomeKB.com" u32227@uwe
wrote:

The circuit stayed fine thru the night, I ran some hot water and cautiously
opened the 2 panels on it to see if I could examine anything out of place and
(not knowing or touching anything) but it did make a pop/knock sound in the
tank while looking at the tank.

I put the panels back and it brings a question to mind...
Why are there 2 thermostats on the tank?

Because there are two heating elements. One thermostat for each
element. If it popped inside the tank, you got a bad element.

Not too hard to fix. Shut off the power, drain the water from tank,
and remove the 4 bolts that hold in the element. Of course your guess
is as good as mine if its the upper or lower element, so you may as
well remove both. Look for holes, cracks, pits corrosion, and other
damage to the element. They should be smooth.

You'll likely need a new gasket for the good element that you replace.
Or just replace both elements and be done with it. They are not real
expsnsive.


Tank info: I do not see a year on it.
Raheem for manufactured homes, model 71-52d b,
wattage 240/208 upper and lower 4500/3380
50 gal and yes it has a double circuit switch.
John

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 04:03:42 GMT, "JohnA via HomeKB.com" u32227@uwe
wrote:

I did notice that the lower heating element was dripping and I wiped it off,
as of now it seems ok, I also noticed a pool of water in the bottom which I
am in the process of drying that up.

Do this with the breaker off, of course.

Problem now is that I am running the hot water and the tank isnt firing up.

Do this with the breaker on, or it won't work.

I do not have a OHM tester but I did take a black wire off the bottom and
touched it back onto the screw and it does show a sign of a spark of life.

I do crap like this, but not with 220 volts. Get a damn meter. A
multimeter that does ohms, volts, and milliamps. Under 20 dollars
iirc, even at HD.

time to call the man tomorrow I suppose. But thanks to all you It must be
the lower heating element.

I posted further up tonight a little while ago. Read that, and the
advantages of not draining the tank are that you don't waste any
partially heated water, it takes a bunch of time to drain and to
refill. Even then you should turn the water back on and wait before
turning the electricity back on. But if you forget to do this, and
you only lose a couple tablespoons, the heating elements will still be
under water, which is essential when th eelectricty is on.