We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

Thanks!

Loretta

In article .com,
"bubblegummom" wrote:

We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

Go for the 200 amp, it's becoming the standard. You do not have to use
all that capacity.

I'd go for 200 amp service, if at all possible, what with all the
electrical appliances, big and small, that are in a modern house.
Amazing that you have survived this far! Get some estimates, etc.,
from a couple of electricians. Likely some other wiring might need
some work as well.

Also,

If we got a 125 amp ciruit breaker panel, how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many extra
spaces would there be?

Loretta

In article . com, "bubblegummom" wrote:

If we got a 125 amp ciruit breaker panel, how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many extra
spaces would there be?

You'll use the same number of breakers as the number of fuses you're using
now.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

It's partially figured by square feet. It also matters if you have electric
range, clothes dryer, AC, etc. Typically a small house with gas appliances
is fine with a 100 amp service, but if you intend to expand or get major
electric appliances, you may want to consider a 200 amp service. The price
difference between the two is generally only a few hundred dollars. How did
you make out with your open circuit problem?



"bubblegummom" wrote in message
oups.com...
We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

Thanks!

Loretta

Typical 100 amp panel has about 20 spaces



"bubblegummom" wrote in message
ups.com...
Also,

If we got a 125 amp ciruit breaker panel, how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many extra
spaces would there be?

Loretta

In article .com, "bubblegummom" wrote:
We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

For a house that small, you should be able to easily get by with 125A
service, even it's total-electric with central A/C. However, 200A would be a
nice feature to have when you eventually sell the house. The *labor* cost of
installation should be almost exactly the same, so the cost difference should
be pretty much just the difference in the cost of the panels. Add another five
or ten bucks, maybe, to account for needing to use heavier service entrance
conductors for the 200A service.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many extra
spaces would there be?

You'll use the same number of breakers as the number of fuses you're using
now.

True, but on a breaker box more space is better. What I can't say for
sure is how many arc fault or ground fault breakers that they might
want to put in. Those take up a lot of space. More space is
beneficial because then you can put all your applicnaces on separate
breakers, and then your toaster oven and microwave on separate
breakers as well, etc.

On 2 Feb 2007 12:29:02 -0800, "bubblegummom"
wrote:

We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

Thanks!

It's figured by what you estimate the electrical demand to be,
and then again by how many different circuts you want. What's the
price difference, and what size wire is your service drop?
The only reason I can think of to go with a smaller panel than
you can is if the price difference is a deal-breaker, or if
the larger size requires a new service drop and the smaller one
doesn't.

It's an old house so they probably wouldn't be using any arc fault or ground
fault breakers, which incidentally take the same space as any other full
sized breaker



wrote in message
ps.com...
how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many extra
spaces would there be?

You'll use the same number of breakers as the number of fuses you're
using
now.

True, but on a breaker box more space is better. What I can't say for
sure is how many arc fault or ground fault breakers that they might
want to put in. Those take up a lot of space. More space is
beneficial because then you can put all your applicnaces on separate
breakers, and then your toaster oven and microwave on separate
breakers as well, etc.

GO WITH 200, it costs little more and leaves room for expansion. years
ago I went from 60 to 100 and now need 200 amp primarily because I am
out of space.

Adding seperate breakers for furnace, and other dedicated outlets can
easily use up your space. FAST

If you have electric Dryer, AND central a/c, AND an electric range, then go
all the way to 200. If you have only 1 or 2 of these 3 items, then you can
probably go less. But why? Just go the 200 and be done.

--
Steve Barker


"bubblegummom" wrote in message
oups.com...
We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

Thanks!

Loretta

On Feb 2, 4:42�pm, "Steve Barker" wrote:
If you have electric Dryer, AND central a/c, AND an electric range, then go
all the way to 200. *If you have only 1 or 2 of these 3 items, then you can
probably go less. *But why? *Just go the 200 and be done.

--
Steve Barker

"bubblegummom" wrote in message

oups.com...



We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

Thanks!

Loretta- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


then you upgrade your kitchen..... code calls for at least 2 dedicated
20 amp GFCI circuits plus one for dishwasher, one for fridge, just a
kitchen can eat up 6 breakers

On Feb 2, 2:29 pm, "bubblegummom" wrote:
We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

Thanks!

Loretta


Figure one breaker for each fuse , and two each if you have doubled up
on circuits to fuses.

Get the cost from your utility for the monthly charges of 125 and 200
amp supplies.
Get the cost to upgrade from your current service to 125 or 200 amp.

If its the same go for 200 amp.

If you are planning on selling the home go for 200 amp supply.


Plan out your breaker panel, seperate kitchen from the rest of the
house , allow for water heater , stove , air conditioning on seperate
breakers.

Why not? I've added an AFCI to my house, along with a TVSS. I used
receptacles where GFCIs would be required. It takes minimal effort
"while you're in there" and while it may not be 100% compliant with
modern codes, it's closer than it was.

My advice would be to use full sized breakers exclusively, but get a
panel that allows half height breakers, that way there's room for
expansion in the future.

nate

On Feb 2, 4:25 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
It's an old house so they probably wouldn't be using any arc fault or ground
fault breakers, which incidentally take the same space as any other full
sized breaker

wrote in message

ps.com...



how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many extra
spaces would there be?

You'll use the same number of breakers as the number of fuses you're
using
now.

True, but on a breaker box more space is better. What I can't say for
sure is how many arc fault or ground fault breakers that they might
want to put in. Those take up a lot of space. More space is
beneficial because then you can put all your applicnaces on separate
breakers, and then your toaster oven and microwave on separate
breakers as well, etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's fine to do that, but unless your bedrooms were wired on dedicated
circuits, maybe not practical given the issues with the current crop of AFCI
breakers, also if you buy a full sized panel, such as a forty circuit 200
amp panel, there are no half size breakers allowed. You only have provisions
for half sized breakers with reduced size panels


"N8N" wrote in message
oups.com...

Why not? I've added an AFCI to my house, along with a TVSS. I used
receptacles where GFCIs would be required. It takes minimal effort
"while you're in there" and while it may not be 100% compliant with
modern codes, it's closer than it was.

My advice would be to use full sized breakers exclusively, but get a
panel that allows half height breakers, that way there's room for
expansion in the future.

nate

On Feb 2, 4:25 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
It's an old house so they probably wouldn't be using any arc fault or
ground
fault breakers, which incidentally take the same space as any other full
sized breaker

wrote in message

ps.com...



how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many
extra
spaces would there be?

You'll use the same number of breakers as the number of fuses you're
using
now.

True, but on a breaker box more space is better. What I can't say for
sure is how many arc fault or ground fault breakers that they might
want to put in. Those take up a lot of space. More space is
beneficial because then you can put all your applicnaces on separate
breakers, and then your toaster oven and microwave on separate
breakers as well, etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 15:53:44 -0500, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Typical 100 amp panel has about 20 spaces


That's how many mine does (100A Square D Q0). I don't know about a
125A.



"bubblegummom" wrote in message
oups.com...
Also,

If we got a 125 amp ciruit breaker panel, how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many extra
spaces would there be?

Loretta


--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On 2 Feb 2007 13:44:47 -0800, "
wrote:

On Feb 2, 4:42?pm, "Steve Barker" wrote:
If you have electric Dryer, AND central a/c, AND an electric range, then go
all the way to 200. f you have only 1 or 2 of these 3 items, then you can
probably go less.
ut why?
ust go the 200 and be done.

--
Steve Barker

"bubblegummom" wrote in message

oups.com...



We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

Thanks!

Loretta- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


then you upgrade your kitchen..... code calls for at least 2 dedicated
20 amp GFCI circuits plus one for dishwasher, one for fridge, just a
kitchen can eat up 6 breakers

My kitchen is using 8 spaces. Double-pole breakers for oven and
cooktop (these are separate built-in units), a dedicated circuit for
the dishwasher, and 3 additional circuits.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

I don't know that I've ever seen a factory built 125 amp main breaker panel.
I've seen 125 amp main lug panels, and 125 amp main disconnect panels. I
can't even find one googling for it



"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 15:53:44 -0500, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

Typical 100 amp panel has about 20 spaces


That's how many mine does (100A Square D Q0). I don't know about a
125A.



"bubblegummom" wrote in message
roups.com...
Also,

If we got a 125 amp ciruit breaker panel, how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many extra
spaces would there be?

Loretta


--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

My bedrooms are all on the same circuit, and the only other room on that
circuit is the bathroom. I would like to split that off anyway so in my
case I really don't care. At the same time I do that I will probably
pull another homerun from the 2nd floor back to the breaker panel so
that I can split the bedrooms into two circuits (yes I have another AFCI
standing by.)

I actually have a 40 ckt. 200A panel in my house, but it only has 20
full sized breaker spaces, so there's lots of half height breakers in
there (now.) If *I* were the guy doing the upgrade, I would have spec'd
a larger panel, but that's water under the bridge.

I'm digressing a bit, but sort of on the same topic, I have a question
regarding the wiring between my house and my garage. The house's
breaker panel has a 100A 2-pole breaker in it, which feeds the subpanel
in the garage. The other end of that wire connects to a 100A 2-pole
breaker in the sub-panel. That just seems weird and redundant to me.
Is this common practice, and what is the reason for it? Or did someone
improvise "on the fly" and what would be the right way to do it?

nate

RBM wrote:
It's fine to do that, but unless your bedrooms were wired on dedicated
circuits, maybe not practical given the issues with the current crop of AFCI
breakers, also if you buy a full sized panel, such as a forty circuit 200
amp panel, there are no half size breakers allowed. You only have provisions
for half sized breakers with reduced size panels


"N8N" wrote in message
oups.com...

Why not? I've added an AFCI to my house, along with a TVSS. I used
receptacles where GFCIs would be required. It takes minimal effort
"while you're in there" and while it may not be 100% compliant with
modern codes, it's closer than it was.

My advice would be to use full sized breakers exclusively, but get a
panel that allows half height breakers, that way there's room for
expansion in the future.

nate

On Feb 2, 4:25 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:

It's an old house so they probably wouldn't be using any arc fault or
ground
fault breakers, which incidentally take the same space as any other full
sized breaker

wrote in message

roups.com...




how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many
extra
spaces would there be?

You'll use the same number of breakers as the number of fuses you're
using
now.

True, but on a breaker box more space is better. What I can't say for
sure is how many arc fault or ground fault breakers that they might
want to put in. Those take up a lot of space. More space is
beneficial because then you can put all your applicnaces on separate
breakers, and then your toaster oven and microwave on separate
breakers as well, etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -






--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"bubblegummom" wrote in message
oups.com...
We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

Thanks!

Loretta

Always check with your utility company when doing an upgrade. If you have
been getting by with a 60 ampere service you probably do not need more than
a 100 or 125 ampere upgrade.
Per Code Section 220.83(A) for upgrading an existing service for additional
loads where air conditioning and electric heat are not added the following
is used:
First 8 KVA of load at 100 per cent
Remainder of load at 40 per cent
Where load is 3 VA/ sq.ft or for you 3 x 1240 = 3720 VA
Small appliance load = 3000 VA
Household range (usually 8000 VA)
All other appliances pemanently connected (like a boiler motor or bathroom
fan) or fastened in place (dishwasher) at nameplate ratings.
(For good measure just add 3000 VA here.)

This gives 3720+3000+8000+3000 = 17720
First 8000 VA at 100 per cent + 0.40 x (17720-8000) = 11888 VA
11888 VA / 240 volts = 99 amperes
So using this calculation a 100 ampere service would suffice.

If you are adding or have air conditioning and electric heat or are planning
to add a two car garage and a shop, etc upgrade to a 200 ampere service.

The breaker in the main panel protects the wiring to the garage. If the
garage is detached, it's required to have a disconnect in it. If it's
attached, the electrician probably got a good deal on a panel with a main
breaker



"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
My bedrooms are all on the same circuit, and the only other room on that
circuit is the bathroom. I would like to split that off anyway so in my
case I really don't care. At the same time I do that I will probably pull
another homerun from the 2nd floor back to the breaker panel so that I can
split the bedrooms into two circuits (yes I have another AFCI standing
by.)

I actually have a 40 ckt. 200A panel in my house, but it only has 20 full
sized breaker spaces, so there's lots of half height breakers in there
(now.) If *I* were the guy doing the upgrade, I would have spec'd a
larger panel, but that's water under the bridge.

I'm digressing a bit, but sort of on the same topic, I have a question
regarding the wiring between my house and my garage. The house's breaker
panel has a 100A 2-pole breaker in it, which feeds the subpanel in the
garage. The other end of that wire connects to a 100A 2-pole breaker in
the sub-panel. That just seems weird and redundant to me. Is this common
practice, and what is the reason for it? Or did someone improvise "on the
fly" and what would be the right way to do it?

nate

RBM wrote:
It's fine to do that, but unless your bedrooms were wired on dedicated
circuits, maybe not practical given the issues with the current crop of
AFCI breakers, also if you buy a full sized panel, such as a forty
circuit 200 amp panel, there are no half size breakers allowed. You only
have provisions for half sized breakers with reduced size panels


"N8N" wrote in message
oups.com...

Why not? I've added an AFCI to my house, along with a TVSS. I used
receptacles where GFCIs would be required. It takes minimal effort
"while you're in there" and while it may not be 100% compliant with
modern codes, it's closer than it was.

My advice would be to use full sized breakers exclusively, but get a
panel that allows half height breakers, that way there's room for
expansion in the future.

nate

On Feb 2, 4:25 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:

It's an old house so they probably wouldn't be using any arc fault or
ground
fault breakers, which incidentally take the same space as any other full
sized breaker

wrote in message

groups.com...




how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many
extra
spaces would there be?

You'll use the same number of breakers as the number of fuses you're
using
now.

True, but on a breaker box more space is better. What I can't say for
sure is how many arc fault or ground fault breakers that they might
want to put in. Those take up a lot of space. More space is
beneficial because then you can put all your applicnaces on separate
breakers, and then your toaster oven and microwave on separate
breakers as well, etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -






--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

The garage is detached; the subpanel doesn't have a main breaker, it's
just fed through a regular 100A breaker. The home inspector didn't seem
to think it was weird, except for the fact that the ground terminal
strip was mounted too close to the front of the panel.

nate

RBM wrote:
The breaker in the main panel protects the wiring to the garage. If the
garage is detached, it's required to have a disconnect in it. If it's
attached, the electrician probably got a good deal on a panel with a main
breaker



"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

My bedrooms are all on the same circuit, and the only other room on that
circuit is the bathroom. I would like to split that off anyway so in my
case I really don't care. At the same time I do that I will probably pull
another homerun from the 2nd floor back to the breaker panel so that I can
split the bedrooms into two circuits (yes I have another AFCI standing
by.)

I actually have a 40 ckt. 200A panel in my house, but it only has 20 full
sized breaker spaces, so there's lots of half height breakers in there
(now.) If *I* were the guy doing the upgrade, I would have spec'd a
larger panel, but that's water under the bridge.

I'm digressing a bit, but sort of on the same topic, I have a question
regarding the wiring between my house and my garage. The house's breaker
panel has a 100A 2-pole breaker in it, which feeds the subpanel in the
garage. The other end of that wire connects to a 100A 2-pole breaker in
the sub-panel. That just seems weird and redundant to me. Is this common
practice, and what is the reason for it? Or did someone improvise "on the
fly" and what would be the right way to do it?

nate

RBM wrote:

It's fine to do that, but unless your bedrooms were wired on dedicated
circuits, maybe not practical given the issues with the current crop of
AFCI breakers, also if you buy a full sized panel, such as a forty
circuit 200 amp panel, there are no half size breakers allowed. You only
have provisions for half sized breakers with reduced size panels


"N8N" wrote in message
egroups.com...


Why not? I've added an AFCI to my house, along with a TVSS. I used
receptacles where GFCIs would be required. It takes minimal effort
"while you're in there" and while it may not be 100% compliant with
modern codes, it's closer than it was.

My advice would be to use full sized breakers exclusively, but get a
panel that allows half height breakers, that way there's room for
expansion in the future.

nate

On Feb 2, 4:25 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:


It's an old house so they probably wouldn't be using any arc fault or
ground
fault breakers, which incidentally take the same space as any other full
sized breaker

wrote in message

egroups.com...





how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many
extra
spaces would there be?

You'll use the same number of breakers as the number of fuses you're
using
now.

True, but on a breaker box more space is better. What I can't say for
sure is how many arc fault or ground fault breakers that they might
want to put in. Those take up a lot of space. More space is
beneficial because then you can put all your applicnaces on separate
breakers, and then your toaster oven and microwave on separate
breakers as well, etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -




--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel





--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

That's fine, he just back fed a main lug panel


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
The garage is detached; the subpanel doesn't have a main breaker, it's
just fed through a regular 100A breaker. The home inspector didn't seem
to think it was weird, except for the fact that the ground terminal strip
was mounted too close to the front of the panel.

nate

RBM wrote:
The breaker in the main panel protects the wiring to the garage. If the
garage is detached, it's required to have a disconnect in it. If it's
attached, the electrician probably got a good deal on a panel with a main
breaker



"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

My bedrooms are all on the same circuit, and the only other room on that
circuit is the bathroom. I would like to split that off anyway so in my
case I really don't care. At the same time I do that I will probably
pull another homerun from the 2nd floor back to the breaker panel so that
I can split the bedrooms into two circuits (yes I have another AFCI
standing by.)

I actually have a 40 ckt. 200A panel in my house, but it only has 20 full
sized breaker spaces, so there's lots of half height breakers in there
(now.) If *I* were the guy doing the upgrade, I would have spec'd a
larger panel, but that's water under the bridge.

I'm digressing a bit, but sort of on the same topic, I have a question
regarding the wiring between my house and my garage. The house's breaker
panel has a 100A 2-pole breaker in it, which feeds the subpanel in the
garage. The other end of that wire connects to a 100A 2-pole breaker in
the sub-panel. That just seems weird and redundant to me. Is this common
practice, and what is the reason for it? Or did someone improvise "on
the fly" and what would be the right way to do it?

nate

RBM wrote:

It's fine to do that, but unless your bedrooms were wired on dedicated
circuits, maybe not practical given the issues with the current crop of
AFCI breakers, also if you buy a full sized panel, such as a forty
circuit 200 amp panel, there are no half size breakers allowed. You only
have provisions for half sized breakers with reduced size panels


"N8N" wrote in message
legroups.com...


Why not? I've added an AFCI to my house, along with a TVSS. I used
receptacles where GFCIs would be required. It takes minimal effort
"while you're in there" and while it may not be 100% compliant with
modern codes, it's closer than it was.

My advice would be to use full sized breakers exclusively, but get a
panel that allows half height breakers, that way there's room for
expansion in the future.

nate

On Feb 2, 4:25 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:


It's an old house so they probably wouldn't be using any arc fault or
ground
fault breakers, which incidentally take the same space as any other
full
sized breaker

wrote in message

legroups.com...





how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many
extra
spaces would there be?

You'll use the same number of breakers as the number of fuses you're
using
now.

True, but on a breaker box more space is better. What I can't say
for
sure is how many arc fault or ground fault breakers that they might
want to put in. Those take up a lot of space. More space is
beneficial because then you can put all your applicnaces on separate
breakers, and then your toaster oven and microwave on separate
breakers as well, etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -




--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel





--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

bubblegummom wrote:

We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

Thanks!

Loretta

It sounds to me like you're using a lot of electricity for such
a small house; is it all-electric?

--
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Goedjn wrote:

On 2 Feb 2007 12:29:02 -0800, "bubblegummom"
wrote:


We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

Thanks!


It's figured by what you estimate the electrical demand to be,
and then again by how many different circuts you want. What's the
price difference, and what size wire is your service drop?
The only reason I can think of to go with a smaller panel than
you can is if the price difference is a deal-breaker, or if
the larger size requires a new service drop and the smaller one
doesn't.


I'm of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school. The OP might
find the upgrade requires bringing everything else up to current code,
which could get very expensive. A bit of conservation could pay big
dividends.

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Steve Barker wrote:

If you have electric Dryer, AND central a/c, AND an electric range, then go
all the way to 200. If you have only 1 or 2 of these 3 items, then you can
probably go less. But why? Just go the 200 and be done.

In other words, it's only money ...

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wrote:

On Feb 2, 2:29 pm, "bubblegummom" wrote:

We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

Thanks!

Loretta



Figure one breaker for each fuse , and two each if you have doubled up
on circuits to fuses.

Get the cost from your utility for the monthly charges of 125 and 200
amp supplies.
Get the cost to upgrade from your current service to 125 or 200 amp.

If its the same go for 200 amp.

If you are planning on selling the home go for 200 amp supply.


Plan out your breaker panel, seperate kitchen from the rest of the
house , allow for water heater , stove , air conditioning on seperate
breakers.




Cook and heat water with gas and save money.

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N8N wrote:

Why not? I've added an AFCI to my house, along with a TVSS. I used
receptacles where GFCIs would be required. It takes minimal effort
"while you're in there" and while it may not be 100% compliant with
modern codes, it's closer than it was.

What electrician will be willing to bring something "closer than it was"
to code?


My advice would be to use full sized breakers exclusively, but get a
panel that allows half height breakers, that way there's room for
expansion in the future.

nate

On Feb 2, 4:25 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:

It's an old house so they probably wouldn't be using any arc fault or ground
fault breakers, which incidentally take the same space as any other full
sized breaker

wrote in message

oups.com...




how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many extra
spaces would there be?

You'll use the same number of breakers as the number of fuses you're
using
now.

True, but on a breaker box more space is better. What I can't say for
sure is how many arc fault or ground fault breakers that they might
want to put in. Those take up a lot of space. More space is
beneficial because then you can put all your applicnaces on separate
breakers, and then your toaster oven and microwave on separate
breakers as well, etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -





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CJT wrote:
N8N wrote:

Why not? I've added an AFCI to my house, along with a TVSS. I used
receptacles where GFCIs would be required. It takes minimal effort
"while you're in there" and while it may not be 100% compliant with
modern codes, it's closer than it was.


What electrician will be willing to bring something "closer than it was"
to code?

I didn't say I was a professional. But the only items not to code that
I'm aware of right now are the lack of a dedicated 20A circuit to the
bathroom, one kitchen counter outlet that's on a 15A general
lighting/receptacle circuit, and a few remaining receptacles that aren't
grounded. I'm picking away at those issues, but my point was I don't
particularly see the point of saying "well, it still won't be perfectly
code compliant for new construction, so why bother?"

nate

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Nate Nagel wrote:

CJT wrote:

N8N wrote:

Why not? I've added an AFCI to my house, along with a TVSS. I used
receptacles where GFCIs would be required. It takes minimal effort
"while you're in there" and while it may not be 100% compliant with
modern codes, it's closer than it was.



What electrician will be willing to bring something "closer than it was"
to code?


I didn't say I was a professional. But the only items not to code that
I'm aware of right now are the lack of a dedicated 20A circuit to the
bathroom, one kitchen counter outlet that's on a 15A general
lighting/receptacle circuit, and a few remaining receptacles that aren't
grounded. I'm picking away at those issues, but my point was I don't
particularly see the point of saying "well, it still won't be perfectly
code compliant for new construction, so why bother?"

nate

There's no indication the OP would be willing to make the changes on
their own. So an electrician will be involved. My question stands.

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wrote:
On Feb 2, 2:29 pm, "bubblegummom" wrote:
We're thinking of upgrading our 60 amp fuse box (presently overloaded)
to a circuit breaker panel. How do I know if we should get a 125 amp
or a 200 amp panel? According to Zillow.com our house is 1,240 square
feet, in case it's figured by square feet.

Thanks!

Loretta


Figure one breaker for each fuse , and two each if you have doubled up
on circuits to fuses.

Get the cost from your utility for the monthly charges of 125 and 200
amp supplies.

What do you mean by this? You pay for usage.


Get the cost to upgrade from your current service to 125 or 200 amp.

If its the same go for 200 amp.

If you are planning on selling the home go for 200 amp supply.


Plan out your breaker panel, seperate kitchen from the rest of the
house , allow for water heater , stove , air conditioning on seperate
breakers.

bubblegummom wrote:
Also,

If we got a 125 amp ciruit breaker panel, how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how many extra
spaces would there be?

Loretta

Wrong question. No one here is going to consider a 125A box when a 200A box
is the standard, costs no more to install, has plenty of room for expansion,
and is a negligble increase in price over a 125A.

RBM wrote:
It's partially figured by square feet. It also matters if you have
electric range, clothes dryer, AC, etc. Typically a small house with
gas appliances is fine with a 100 amp service, but if you intend to
expand or get major electric appliances, you may want to consider a
200 amp service. The price difference between the two is generally
only a few hundred dollars. How did you make out with your open
circuit problem?

A few hundred dollars? Try $65.

Here's two kits:

The 200Amp kit is $125.00 and comes with 14 breakers.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=39537-296-HOMVP9&lpage=none

Here's the corresponding 100A kit for $60.00 (with a mere 5 breakers)
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...VP5&lpage=none

Mind you, these are RETAIL prices.

Where I live, and work,(as an electrical contractor) electrical services,
regardless of their amperage, don't install themselves, and while the price
of installing a service is determined not only by the equipment being
installed but also by particulars of each job, in general a 200 amp overhead
service costs about three hundred dollars more than a 100 amp service. We
also don't have a "standard" service, most new houses do have 200 amp
services installed, but the NEC requires a minimum of 100 amps, and for a
very small house with gas cooking 100 amps should be more than adequate


"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
It's partially figured by square feet. It also matters if you have
electric range, clothes dryer, AC, etc. Typically a small house with
gas appliances is fine with a 100 amp service, but if you intend to
expand or get major electric appliances, you may want to consider a
200 amp service. The price difference between the two is generally
only a few hundred dollars. How did you make out with your open
circuit problem?

A few hundred dollars? Try $65.

Here's two kits:

The 200Amp kit is $125.00 and comes with 14 breakers.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=39537-296-HOMVP9&lpage=none

Here's the corresponding 100A kit for $60.00 (with a mere 5 breakers)
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...VP5&lpage=none

Mind you, these are RETAIL prices.

In article .com,
says...

Get the cost from your utility for the monthly charges of 125 and 200
amp supplies.

That's silly. You pay for the electricity you use, not for the capacity
of your service.

Get the cost to upgrade from your current service to 125 or 200 amp.

If its the same go for 200 amp.

It won't be. 200A panels are more expensive than 125A panels, and 200A
service requires heavier (and therefore more expensive) service entrance
conductors. The *labor* should be pretty near the same, but the
*materials* will definitely be more expensive for 200A.

If you are planning on selling the home go for 200 amp supply.

Missed the part about the home being only twelve hundred square feet,
didja? 200A service is a nice feature to have, but having "only" 125A
service on a home that size shouldn't have much, if any, impact on
resale value. At most, I'd expect the homeowner to recover the extra
cost at resale, not realize any profit from it.


Plan out your breaker panel, seperate kitchen from the rest of the
house , allow for water heater , stove , air conditioning on seperate
breakers.

No, let the *electrician* do that.

If the garage panel has 6 or less breakers (a two-pole breaker with the
handles tied only counts as one), it doesn't need a main disconnect.

Best regards,
Bob


Nate Nagel wrote:
The garage is detached; the subpanel doesn't have a main breaker, it's
just fed through a regular 100A breaker. The home inspector didn't seem
to think it was weird, except for the fact that the ground terminal
strip was mounted too close to the front of the panel.

nate

RBM wrote:
The breaker in the main panel protects the wiring to the garage. If
the garage is detached, it's required to have a disconnect in it. If
it's attached, the electrician probably got a good deal on a panel
with a main breaker



"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

My bedrooms are all on the same circuit, and the only other room on
that circuit is the bathroom. I would like to split that off anyway
so in my case I really don't care. At the same time I do that I will
probably pull another homerun from the 2nd floor back to the breaker
panel so that I can split the bedrooms into two circuits (yes I have
another AFCI standing by.)

I actually have a 40 ckt. 200A panel in my house, but it only has 20
full sized breaker spaces, so there's lots of half height breakers in
there (now.) If *I* were the guy doing the upgrade, I would have
spec'd a larger panel, but that's water under the bridge.

I'm digressing a bit, but sort of on the same topic, I have a
question regarding the wiring between my house and my garage. The
house's breaker panel has a 100A 2-pole breaker in it, which feeds
the subpanel in the garage. The other end of that wire connects to a
100A 2-pole breaker in the sub-panel. That just seems weird and
redundant to me. Is this common practice, and what is the reason for
it? Or did someone improvise "on the fly" and what would be the
right way to do it?

nate

RBM wrote:

It's fine to do that, but unless your bedrooms were wired on
dedicated circuits, maybe not practical given the issues with the
current crop of AFCI breakers, also if you buy a full sized panel,
such as a forty circuit 200 amp panel, there are no half size
breakers allowed. You only have provisions for half sized breakers
with reduced size panels


"N8N" wrote in message
oups.com...


Why not? I've added an AFCI to my house, along with a TVSS. I used
receptacles where GFCIs would be required. It takes minimal effort
"while you're in there" and while it may not be 100% compliant with
modern codes, it's closer than it was.

My advice would be to use full sized breakers exclusively, but get a
panel that allows half height breakers, that way there's room for
expansion in the future.

nate

On Feb 2, 4:25 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:


It's an old house so they probably wouldn't be using any arc fault
or ground
fault breakers, which incidentally take the same space as any
other full
sized breaker

wrote in message

ps.com...





how many spaces would be
already filled by the items in our present fuse box and how
many extra
spaces would there be?

You'll use the same number of breakers as the number of fuses
you're
using
now.

True, but on a breaker box more space is better. What I can't
say for
sure is how many arc fault or ground fault breakers that they might
want to put in. Those take up a lot of space. More space is
beneficial because then you can put all your applicnaces on separate
breakers, and then your toaster oven and microwave on separate
breakers as well, etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -




--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

In article , "HeyBub" wrote:
A few hundred dollars? Try $65.

Here's two kits:

The 200Amp kit is $125.00 and comes with 14 breakers.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...537-296-HOMVP9
&lpage=none

Here's the corresponding 100A kit for $60.00 (with a mere 5 breakers)
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...32-296-HOMVP5&
lpage=none

Mind you, these are RETAIL prices.

Now add in the difference between 2/0 copper (or 4/0 aluminum) vs. #2 copper
(or 1/0 aluminum) service entrance conductors. Don't forget that 200A service
requires a heavier grounding conductor, too.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , "HeyBub"
wrote:
A few hundred dollars? Try $65.

Here's two kits:

The 200Amp kit is $125.00 and comes with 14 breakers.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...9537-296-HOMVP
9
&lpage=none

Here's the corresponding 100A kit for $60.00 (with a mere 5 breakers)
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...032-296-HOMVP5
&
lpage=none

Mind you, these are RETAIL prices.

Now add in the difference between 2/0 copper (or 4/0 aluminum) vs. #2 copper
(or 1/0 aluminum) service entrance conductors. Don't forget that 200A service
requires a heavier grounding conductor, too.

The 200A service will require larger conduit for the service drop, too. And a
correspondingly larger rainhead.

Not to mention... bending 4/0 cables inside a meter base is a cast-iron bitch.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.