'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, old-style plaster on steel mesh lath.

Recently found that kitchen and both drain pipes were sealed
behind wall. Had to bust thru kitchen wall (tile and plaster)
to replace drain pipe.

I found that the "plaster" was more the consistency and hardness
of concrete than any plaster I seen before ...

The bath drain is overdue to roll over and die. The drain is
in a partition wall opposite a bedroom closet. To gain
access, I'd likely need to cut a large section of the
closet wall out.

It's actually strange I've never bought a sawzall, but
I've always got along with a little scroll-jig saw. Have
built partition walls but never needed to rip thru old
walls, chop thru roof, etc.

Anybody familiar with cutting the old style plaster?

Q1: Can I do it with a sawzall? If so what blade? Recall
this "plaster" looks more like flogging concrete.

Q2: If Q1 = yes, would an 8 amp sawzall likely be adequate?

Q3: If Q1 = no, what should I use? Used a hammer/cold-chisel
on the kitchen and it was a SEVERE PITA!

Any/all info/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

In article , Pudding Dot Man At Gmail Dot Com wrote:

Anybody familiar with cutting the old style plaster?

Much more familiar than I wish...

Q1: Can I do it with a sawzall? If so what blade? Recall
this "plaster" looks more like flogging concrete.

You *can* -- but it's going to make a hell of a mess, and you're going to go
through a lot of blades. Not to mention shortening the lifespan of the tool,
if the dust gets into the bearings or motor (it's very abrasive).

Q2: If Q1 = yes, would an 8 amp sawzall likely be adequate?

Yes.

Q3: If Q1 = no, what should I use? Used a hammer/cold-chisel
on the kitchen and it was a SEVERE PITA!

Well, that's what I was going to suggest: hammer and chisel to go through the
plaster, then a sawzall to cut the metal lath.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 18:49:31 GMT, Puddin' Man
wrote:



'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, old-style plaster on steel mesh lath.

Recently found that kitchen and both drain pipes were sealed
behind wall. Had to bust thru kitchen wall (tile and plaster)
to replace drain pipe.

I found that the "plaster" was more the consistency and hardness
of concrete than any plaster I seen before ...

The bath drain is overdue to roll over and die. The drain is
in a partition wall opposite a bedroom closet. To gain
access, I'd likely need to cut a large section of the
closet wall out.

It's actually strange I've never bought a sawzall, but
I've always got along with a little scroll-jig saw. Have
built partition walls but never needed to rip thru old
walls, chop thru roof, etc.

Anybody familiar with cutting the old style plaster?

Q1: Can I do it with a sawzall? If so what blade? Recall
this "plaster" looks more like flogging concrete.

Q2: If Q1 = yes, would an 8 amp sawzall likely be adequate?

Q3: If Q1 = no, what should I use? Used a hammer/cold-chisel
on the kitchen and it was a SEVERE PITA!

Any/all info/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

I would suggest a 4" angle grinder (rented) with a diamond tip blade
and a shop vac. You can make a cleaner cut than the sawzall. A helper
can vacuum along the cut line to reduce dust.

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
...


'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, old-style plaster on steel mesh lath.

Recently found that kitchen and both drain pipes were sealed
behind wall. Had to bust thru kitchen wall (tile and plaster)
to replace drain pipe.

I found that the "plaster" was more the consistency and hardness
of concrete than any plaster I seen before ...

The bath drain is overdue to roll over and die. The drain is
in a partition wall opposite a bedroom closet. To gain
access, I'd likely need to cut a large section of the
closet wall out.

It's actually strange I've never bought a sawzall, but
I've always got along with a little scroll-jig saw. Have
built partition walls but never needed to rip thru old
walls, chop thru roof, etc.

Anybody familiar with cutting the old style plaster?

I do small cuts with a 1/8" carbide bit in my dremel tool.
Cut the plaster layer away, then saw the wood lath.

Bob

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 19:04:40 GMT, (Doug Miller) wrote:

In article , Pudding Dot Man At Gmail Dot Com wrote:

Anybody familiar with cutting the old style plaster?

Much more familiar than I wish...

Q1: Can I do it with a sawzall? If so what blade? Recall
this "plaster" looks more like flogging concrete.

You *can* -- but it's going to make a hell of a mess, and you're going to go
through a lot of blades. Not to mention shortening the lifespan of the tool,
if the dust gets into the bearings or motor (it's very abrasive).

Q2: If Q1 = yes, would an 8 amp sawzall likely be adequate?

Yes.

Q3: If Q1 = no, what should I use? Used a hammer/cold-chisel
on the kitchen and it was a SEVERE PITA!

Well, that's what I was going to suggest: hammer and chisel to go through the
plaster, then a sawzall to cut the metal lath.

I am now thinking maybe:

1.) Lay it out carefully with pen/marker (might be 9 sq. feet).
2.) Hammer drill with 1/4 or 5/16 " percussion bit every inch or less.
3.) Hammer and cold-chisel to detach "plaster".
4.) Recip saw to go thru steel mesh.

Is viable? I hate to knock huge jagged edges in the "plaster"
which does not break predictably with hammer/chisel.

Thanks,
P

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

I think I remember suggesting a dry diamond wheel on a circular
saw or an offset grinder back in the kitchen. They will make
dust - wear a dust mask and safety glasses, isolate the space you
are in with visqueen, clean up the mess when you are finished.
What did you end up doing to repair the hole after you completed
the pipe repair???

A reciprocating saw is an excellent tool. I believe in Milwaukee,
but they are pricey for home use. They make a plaster/nail
cutting blade, a carborundum blade (slow), and a dry diamond blade
($40ish). The jerking action of a reciprocating blade can loosen
a lot more plaster than you originally planned.

For your application I would recommend a cheap, harbor freight
type offset grinder ($10ish when on super sale) with an assortment
of wheels that include weld cutting disc(s), grinding disc(s),
flap wheel (for dressing steel), a wire brush or two(both cup and
straight), and a dry diamond ($5ish on super sale). The dry
diamond may smoke and burn a bit on it's way through wood lath,
but it will work; no problem with metal lath.

They also sell dry diamond blades for 7 1/4" circle saws ($10ish).
The first ones I bought were just short of $100, now down to about
$50: but I have heard such good things about the Harbor Freight
blades, I'm going to try them.

If your tub plumbing backs up to a closet or inconspicuous place,
plan on creating a permanent access panel at the back of the tub
with a screwed on panel that is trimmed out with door casing.
___________________________
Keep the whole world singing. . . .
DanG


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
...


'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, old-style plaster on steel mesh lath.

Recently found that kitchen and both drain pipes were sealed
behind wall. Had to bust thru kitchen wall (tile and plaster)
to replace drain pipe.

I found that the "plaster" was more the consistency and hardness
of concrete than any plaster I seen before ...

The bath drain is overdue to roll over and die. The drain is
in a partition wall opposite a bedroom closet. To gain
access, I'd likely need to cut a large section of the
closet wall out.

It's actually strange I've never bought a sawzall, but
I've always got along with a little scroll-jig saw. Have
built partition walls but never needed to rip thru old
walls, chop thru roof, etc.

Anybody familiar with cutting the old style plaster?

Q1: Can I do it with a sawzall? If so what blade? Recall
this "plaster" looks more like flogging concrete.

Q2: If Q1 = yes, would an 8 amp sawzall likely be adequate?

Q3: If Q1 = no, what should I use? Used a hammer/cold-chisel
on the kitchen and it was a SEVERE PITA!

Any/all info/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

Puddin' Man wrote:



I found that the "plaster" was more the consistency and hardness
of concrete than any plaster I seen before ...

The bath drain is overdue to roll over and die. The drain is
in a partition wall opposite a bedroom closet. To gain
access, I'd likely need to cut a large section of the
closet wall out.

My condolences. My home is built the same way. The plaster behind the
expanded metal is even backed with pea gravel, to make 'improvements'
just that much more fun. It's just amazing how much a 1 foot square
piece weighs.

I had to make a number of cuts over the years, and what I used was a
jigsaw, with the best blades I could buy at one of the big box stores.
Drill a hole, insert the jigsaw blade and away you go. Eventually your
progress will drop, because there are fewer and fewer teeth left on the
blade. Time to change the blade.

Depending on how much cutting you need to do, it might be a better
approach, as far as dispersed dust is concerned. You can find jigsaws
that have dust catchers, or others that connect to a shop-vac type of
cannister vac, to keep the mess under control.

With a grinder, wow. You'll need breathing masks!

"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
...

1.) Lay it out carefully with pen/marker (might be 9 sq. feet).
2.) Hammer drill with 1/4 or 5/16 " percussion bit every inch or less.
3.) Hammer and cold-chisel to detach "plaster".
4.) Recip saw to go thru steel mesh.

For cutting metal (#4) would not a rotating
disc cutter be more controllable than a recip. saw?
(Also convenient for making little dints to get
the chisel started.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

In article ,
says...
.

I am now thinking maybe:

1.) Lay it out carefully with pen/marker (might be 9 sq. feet).
2.) Hammer drill with 1/4 or 5/16 " percussion bit every inch or less.
3.) Hammer and cold-chisel to detach "plaster".
4.) Recip saw to go thru steel mesh.

Is viable? I hate to knock huge jagged edges in the "plaster"
which does not break predictably with hammer/chisel.

Could be -- but it's still going to make a hell of a mess. I still say
use a hammer and chisel to remove the plaster. If you're having problems
with the plaster not breaking predictably, I'd say that's probably due
to your technique. Don't try to chisel all the way through it in a
single blow. Instead, score it lightly all the way around, just deep
enough to get through the whitecoat. Then score it again, harder, about
half-way through the browncoat. Finally, chisel all the way through the
browncoat.

Puddin' Man wrote:
'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, old-style plaster on steel mesh lath.

Recently found that kitchen and both drain pipes were sealed
behind wall. Had to bust thru kitchen wall (tile and plaster)
to replace drain pipe.

I found that the "plaster" was more the consistency and hardness
of concrete than any plaster I seen before ...

The bath drain is overdue to roll over and die. The drain is
in a partition wall opposite a bedroom closet. To gain
access, I'd likely need to cut a large section of the
closet wall out.

It's actually strange I've never bought a sawzall, but
I've always got along with a little scroll-jig saw. Have
built partition walls but never needed to rip thru old
walls, chop thru roof, etc.

Anybody familiar with cutting the old style plaster?

Q1: Can I do it with a sawzall? If so what blade? Recall
this "plaster" looks more like flogging concrete.

Q2: If Q1 = yes, would an 8 amp sawzall likely be adequate?

Q3: If Q1 = no, what should I use? Used a hammer/cold-chisel
on the kitchen and it was a SEVERE PITA!

Any/all info/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

Before you try anything else, try this. Get a scoring tool that is
used for scoring and breaking cementboard (e.g., wonderboard). The
scoring tool is basically a piece of carbide, like those found on
carbide-tipped circular saw blades, mounted on a handle. You drag it
across the cementboard to score it. It is a hand tool that costs about
$10, available at any big box type home improvement store. It works
great on old, cement-like, rock-hard plaster. You just keep scoring
until it digs a little channel all the way through. Then you can use a
power tool to cut through whatever is behind the plaster, but without
all the flying sparks, dust, etc. I have done this successfully with
just your type of situation, to get at plumbing behind the plaster. It
is easier, faster, neater, and less destructive than using a power tool
to cut through the plaster. -- H

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:01:37 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

In article ,
says...
.

I am now thinking maybe:

1.) Lay it out carefully with pen/marker (might be 9 sq. feet).
2.) Hammer drill with 1/4 or 5/16 " percussion bit every inch or less.
3.) Hammer and cold-chisel to detach "plaster".
4.) Recip saw to go thru steel mesh.

Is viable? I hate to knock huge jagged edges in the "plaster"
which does not break predictably with hammer/chisel.

Could be -- but it's still going to make a hell of a mess. I still say
use a hammer and chisel to remove the plaster. If you're having problems
with the plaster not breaking predictably, I'd say that's probably due
to your technique. Don't try to chisel all the way through it in a
single blow. Instead, score it lightly all the way around, just deep
enough to get through the whitecoat. Then score it again, harder, about
half-way through the browncoat. Finally, chisel all the way through the
browncoat.

Well, I sho'ly get the idea. Sounds faster and cleaner,
but with more elbow grease.

Not certain my chisels are up to it, 'tho. Maybe
just put 'em on the bench grinder, sharpen 'em
up a bit.

I had a little success using an old Skil Xtra tool
(drill) on a hammer-chisel setting. Damned hard to
control, 'tho.

Thx,
P

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 20:54:41 GMT, Robert Barr wrote:

Puddin' Man wrote:



I found that the "plaster" was more the consistency and hardness
of concrete than any plaster I seen before ...

The bath drain is overdue to roll over and die. The drain is
in a partition wall opposite a bedroom closet. To gain
access, I'd likely need to cut a large section of the
closet wall out.

My condolences. My home is built the same way. The plaster behind the
expanded metal is even backed with pea gravel, to make 'improvements'
just that much more fun. It's just amazing how much a 1 foot square
piece weighs.

Why in the world pea gravel? Sho'ly not for insulation ...

I had to make a number of cuts over the years, and what I used was a
jigsaw, with the best blades I could buy at one of the big box stores.
Drill a hole, insert the jigsaw blade and away you go. Eventually your
progress will drop, because there are fewer and fewer teeth left on the
blade. Time to change the blade.

I tried this in the kitchen. Bought the best blade the HW store
had. Died a horrible death before progressing an inch. :-)

Depending on how much cutting you need to do, it might be a better
approach, as far as dispersed dust is concerned. You can find jigsaws
that have dust catchers, or others that connect to a shop-vac type of
cannister vac, to keep the mess under control.

With a grinder, wow. You'll need breathing masks!

It's inna closet, so I'd need a mask regardless.

Thx,
P

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

In article , Pudding Dot Man At Gmail Dot Com wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:01:37 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

I still say
use a hammer and chisel to remove the plaster. If you're having problems
with the plaster not breaking predictably, I'd say that's probably due
to your technique. Don't try to chisel all the way through it in a
single blow. Instead, score it lightly all the way around, just deep
enough to get through the whitecoat. Then score it again, harder, about
half-way through the browncoat. Finally, chisel all the way through the
browncoat.

Well, I sho'ly get the idea. Sounds faster and cleaner,
but with more elbow grease.

That's pretty much it, yeah.

Not certain my chisels are up to it, 'tho. Maybe
just put 'em on the bench grinder, sharpen 'em
up a bit.

There ya go. Good luck!

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On 18 Dec 2006 07:23:09 -0800, "Heathcliff" wrote:


Puddin' Man wrote:
'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, old-style plaster on steel mesh lath.

Recently found that kitchen and both drain pipes were sealed
behind wall. Had to bust thru kitchen wall (tile and plaster)
to replace drain pipe.

I found that the "plaster" was more the consistency and hardness
of concrete than any plaster I seen before ...

The bath drain is overdue to roll over and die. The drain is
in a partition wall opposite a bedroom closet. To gain
access, I'd likely need to cut a large section of the
closet wall out.

It's actually strange I've never bought a sawzall, but
I've always got along with a little scroll-jig saw. Have
built partition walls but never needed to rip thru old
walls, chop thru roof, etc.

Anybody familiar with cutting the old style plaster?

Q1: Can I do it with a sawzall? If so what blade? Recall
this "plaster" looks more like flogging concrete.

Q2: If Q1 = yes, would an 8 amp sawzall likely be adequate?

Q3: If Q1 = no, what should I use? Used a hammer/cold-chisel
on the kitchen and it was a SEVERE PITA!

Any/all info/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

Before you try anything else, try this. Get a scoring tool that is
used for scoring and breaking cementboard (e.g., wonderboard). The
scoring tool is basically a piece of carbide, like those found on
carbide-tipped circular saw blades, mounted on a handle. You drag it
across the cementboard to score it. It is a hand tool that costs about
$10, available at any big box type home improvement store. It works
great on old, cement-like, rock-hard plaster. You just keep scoring
until it digs a little channel all the way through. Then you can use a
power tool to cut through whatever is behind the plaster, but without
all the flying sparks, dust, etc. I have done this successfully with
just your type of situation, to get at plumbing behind the plaster. It
is easier, faster, neater, and less destructive than using a power tool
to cut through the plaster. -- H

Scoring tool for maybe $10. OK, that'll get me down to the HW
or bigbox store.

Sounds viable.

Much thanks,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 14:07:56 -0600, "DanG" wrote:

I think I remember suggesting a dry diamond wheel on a circular
saw

Too big, clumsy.

or an offset grinder back in the kitchen. They will make
dust - wear a dust mask and safety glasses, isolate the space you
are in with visqueen, clean up the mess when you are finished.
What did you end up doing to repair the hole after you completed
the pipe repair???

Hole was maybe 4" x 12". Very carefully fitted a 1-by -into-
the hole, cut a larger piece of baltic birch plywood to
cover hole and adjacent damage to tile, routed edges smooth,
painted with Kilz to match tile, and attached a little handle.

A reciprocating saw is an excellent tool. I believe in Milwaukee,
but they are pricey for home use.

A Milwaukee would outlive po' me by a factor of maybe 9. :-)

They make a plaster/nail
cutting blade, a carborundum blade (slow), and a dry diamond blade
($40ish). The jerking action of a reciprocating blade can loosen
a lot more plaster than you originally planned.

For your application I would recommend a cheap, harbor freight
type offset grinder ($10ish when on super sale) with an assortment
of wheels that include weld cutting disc(s), grinding disc(s),
flap wheel (for dressing steel), a wire brush or two(both cup and
straight), and a dry diamond ($5ish on super sale). The dry
diamond may smoke and burn a bit on it's way through wood lath,
but it will work; no problem with metal lath.

They also sell dry diamond blades for 7 1/4" circle saws ($10ish).
The first ones I bought were just short of $100, now down to about
$50: but I have heard such good things about the Harbor Freight
blades, I'm going to try them.

If your tub plumbing backs up to a closet or inconspicuous place,
plan on creating a permanent access panel at the back of the tub
with a screwed on panel that is trimmed out with door casing.

I screwed up the description: it's the lav drain, not the tub.
Yeah, a removable panel will go in the hole.

I know where the local harbor freight store is, haven't been
there yet.

Harbor freight stuff is Chinee? Anybody got an idea how long
it'd last with infrequent use?

Much thanks,
Puddin'

"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
.. .


'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, old-style plaster on steel mesh lath.

Recently found that kitchen and both drain pipes were sealed
behind wall. Had to bust thru kitchen wall (tile and plaster)
to replace drain pipe.

I found that the "plaster" was more the consistency and hardness
of concrete than any plaster I seen before ...

The bath drain is overdue to roll over and die. The drain is
in a partition wall opposite a bedroom closet. To gain
access, I'd likely need to cut a large section of the
closet wall out.

It's actually strange I've never bought a sawzall, but
I've always got along with a little scroll-jig saw. Have
built partition walls but never needed to rip thru old
walls, chop thru roof, etc.

Anybody familiar with cutting the old style plaster?

Q1: Can I do it with a sawzall? If so what blade? Recall
this "plaster" looks more like flogging concrete.

Q2: If Q1 = yes, would an 8 amp sawzall likely be adequate?

Q3: If Q1 = no, what should I use? Used a hammer/cold-chisel
on the kitchen and it was a SEVERE PITA!

Any/all info/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'


Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...