Had a major electrical re-do of my house, and had the electrician
install a generator connection. I believe they are called "generator
interlock" systems. It is a standard setup, I can throw a switch in
the basement, then plug a generator in outside the house to power the
house in event of a power failure.

(save safety warnings.. I know to put generator outside not near door
or window, and I can't hook Gen up while still connected to municipal
power supply due to lockout system on inside panel, and I know enough
to not overload gen)

What should I look for in considering a generator. I am pretty much
settled on Honda, as in my experience they are just head an shoulders
above all others in reliability and noise. I am prepared to entertain
opposing points of view, but I am willing to pay a little more for a
good unit.

I don't need super-megawatts.. I will be happy to see that my home has
heater, hot water heater (powered venilation unit) and a few lights
and maybe a TV. I don't need to run the AC or electric stove.

Could I get away with one of those tiny suitcase type units.. my
concern is that they seem to only have standard AC plugs on them, not
that special generator circular locking plug that goes into the outside
outlet.

Personal experiences or tips?
Good online sources for info?

Jack wrote:

Had a major electrical re-do of my house, and had the electrician
install a generator connection. I believe they are called "generator
interlock" systems. It is a standard setup, I can throw a switch in
the basement, then plug a generator in outside the house to power the
house in event of a power failure.

(save safety warnings.. I know to put generator outside not near door
or window, and I can't hook Gen up while still connected to municipal
power supply due to lockout system on inside panel, and I know enough
to not overload gen)

What should I look for in considering a generator. I am pretty much
settled on Honda, as in my experience they are just head an shoulders
above all others in reliability and noise. I am prepared to entertain
opposing points of view, but I am willing to pay a little more for a
good unit.

Honda is about the best for noise in the small portable generator
category, Yamaha has some units that are pretty comparable. In larger
units there are others that are very quiet as well. As for reliability,
there are other brands that are very reliable as well.


I don't need super-megawatts.. I will be happy to see that my home has
heater, hot water heater (powered venilation unit) and a few lights
and maybe a TV. I don't need to run the AC or electric stove.

Heat and HW are gas or oil? Got a well pump that needs power? 5 KW or so
will do pretty well for an average house without unusual loads.
Refrigerator, lights, TV, a burner on the stove for coffee and furnace
and well pump do pretty well with 5 KW. If you do some load management
like insuring the furnace and well pump aren't on at the same time you
can get by with less.


Could I get away with one of those tiny suitcase type units.. my
concern is that they seem to only have standard AC plugs on them, not
that special generator circular locking plug that goes into the outside
outlet.

The real small units are 120V only, a normal transfer switch / interlock
really needs a 240V feed. A small unit like a Honda EU2000i would handle
a refrigerator and a light plugged into it, but is unlikely to handle a
furnace or other larger loads.

Again, the more load management you are willing to do the smaller a
generator you can get away with. Nearly all of the typical large
household loads are ones that do not require full time power. The
refrigerator can readily go an hour without power while the furnace runs
for example. The well pump can go without power while you microwave
dinner.


Personal experiences or tips?

Ran a ~1,500 sq ft house with oil heat / HW, well pump, electric stove,
microwave, lights, TV, etc. for three days on a Generac 5 KW gas
portable generator. Baked stuff in the oven too. Other than the noise
and periodic refueling (which I did very carefully while running) it was
just fine. Changed the oil after that run.

Good online sources for info?

Perhaps alt.energy.homepower though that leans more towards conservation
and renewables. Still most folks off grid with renewable systems have a
regular gas generator as backup since renewables aren't 100% reliable,
so some expertise there.

Pete C.

"Jack" wrote in message
oups.com...
Had a major electrical re-do of my house, and had the electrician
install a generator connection. I believe they are called "generator
interlock" systems. It is a standard setup, I can throw a switch in
the basement, then plug a generator in outside the house to power the
house in event of a power failure.

(save safety warnings.. I know to put generator outside not near door
or window, and I can't hook Gen up while still connected to municipal
power supply due to lockout system on inside panel, and I know enough
to not overload gen)

What should I look for in considering a generator. I am pretty much
settled on Honda, as in my experience they are just head an shoulders
above all others in reliability and noise. I am prepared to entertain
opposing points of view, but I am willing to pay a little more for a
good unit.

I don't need super-megawatts.. I will be happy to see that my home has
heater, hot water heater (powered venilation unit) and a few lights
and maybe a TV. I don't need to run the AC or electric stove.

Could I get away with one of those tiny suitcase type units.. my
concern is that they seem to only have standard AC plugs on them, not
that special generator circular locking plug that goes into the outside
outlet.

Personal experiences or tips?
Good online sources for info?

I have a Honda EU2000. It powers my furnace, fridge, freezer, and TV. Not
only is it nearly silent, but it gets great mileage. If you have ever tried
to buy gas in a major power outage, you will understand that the smallest
possible generator is the best generator.

Get an ampmeter and see how much current you need to start/run all the
components you want to run. It can vary greatly; my old furnace needed 12a
to start, the new one is 2a. Then you have to decide how much you need to
run simultaneously; can you live with your furnace and water heater each on
half the time? My guess is that the EU3000 will be the best fit, but you
have to check things out first.

Jack wrote:

I don't need super-megawatts.. I will be happy to see that my home has
heater, hot water heater (powered venilation unit) and a few lights
and maybe a TV. I don't need to run the AC or electric stove.

What about the refrigerator?

This page has some information on generator sizing:

http://nooutage.com/generato2.htm

Chris

The real small units are 120V only, a normal transfer switch / interlock
really needs a 240V feed. A small unit like a Honda EU2000i would handle
a refrigerator and a light plugged into it, but is unlikely to handle a
furnace or other larger loads.

I could have sworn it ran my furnace for 5 days two years ago, as well as my
refrigerator and freezer.

Toller wrote:

The real small units are 120V only, a normal transfer switch / interlock
really needs a 240V feed. A small unit like a Honda EU2000i would handle
a refrigerator and a light plugged into it, but is unlikely to handle a
furnace or other larger loads.

I could have sworn it ran my furnace for 5 days two years ago, as well as my
refrigerator and freezer.

It may have depending on what you have for a furnace. In many cases it
won't.

Pete C.

Toller wrote:

"Jack" wrote in message
oups.com...
Had a major electrical re-do of my house, and had the electrician
install a generator connection. I believe they are called "generator
interlock" systems. It is a standard setup, I can throw a switch in
the basement, then plug a generator in outside the house to power the
house in event of a power failure.

(save safety warnings.. I know to put generator outside not near door
or window, and I can't hook Gen up while still connected to municipal
power supply due to lockout system on inside panel, and I know enough
to not overload gen)

What should I look for in considering a generator. I am pretty much
settled on Honda, as in my experience they are just head an shoulders
above all others in reliability and noise. I am prepared to entertain
opposing points of view, but I am willing to pay a little more for a
good unit.

I don't need super-megawatts.. I will be happy to see that my home has
heater, hot water heater (powered venilation unit) and a few lights
and maybe a TV. I don't need to run the AC or electric stove.

Could I get away with one of those tiny suitcase type units.. my
concern is that they seem to only have standard AC plugs on them, not
that special generator circular locking plug that goes into the outside
outlet.

Personal experiences or tips?
Good online sources for info?

I have a Honda EU2000. It powers my furnace, fridge, freezer, and TV. Not
only is it nearly silent, but it gets great mileage. If you have ever tried
to buy gas in a major power outage, you will understand that the smallest
possible generator is the best generator.

No, the smallest generator that will handle your load with some safety
margin is the best generator. You need to maintain a fuel supply to
cover the longest reasonably expected outage.

For the folks in the northeast who heat with oil, a diesel generator is
the best since their 275 gal + oil tank will provide weeks of fuel.

You can also store a decent reserve of gasoline if you have a safe place
to keep it. Store it in 5 gal cans with Stabil added and rotate them out
into your car annually and refill.


Get an ampmeter and see how much current you need to start/run all the
components you want to run. It can vary greatly; my old furnace needed 12a
to start, the new one is 2a. Then you have to decide how much you need to
run simultaneously; can you live with your furnace and water heater each on
half the time? My guess is that the EU3000 will be the best fit, but you
have to check things out first.

A clamp on amp meter with a peak hold function is very useful if you
don't mind digging in the breaker panel to use it. For the breaker panel
adverse a little meter like the Kill-A-Watt is very useful.

Pete C.

Jack wrote:
Had a major electrical re-do of my house, and had the electrician
install a generator connection. I believe they are called "generator
interlock" systems. It is a standard setup, I can throw a switch in
the basement, then plug a generator in outside the house to power the
house in event of a power failure.

(save safety warnings.. I know to put generator outside not near door
or window, and I can't hook Gen up while still connected to municipal
power supply due to lockout system on inside panel, and I know enough
to not overload gen)

What should I look for in considering a generator. I am pretty much
settled on Honda, as in my experience they are just head an shoulders
above all others in reliability and noise. I am prepared to
entertain opposing points of view, but I am willing to pay a little
more for a good unit.

I don't need super-megawatts.. I will be happy to see that my home has
heater, hot water heater (powered venilation unit) and a few lights
and maybe a TV. I don't need to run the AC or electric stove.

Could I get away with one of those tiny suitcase type units.. my
concern is that they seem to only have standard AC plugs on them, not
that special generator circular locking plug that goes into the
outside outlet.

Personal experiences or tips?
Good online sources for info?

If you have natural gas service, get a gas-powered generator. You NEVER lose
gas during (most) emergencies [maybe during an earthquake?]. With gas, you
won't run out of fuel and the fuel won't go all gamey on you.

Water heater? What for? Heat some water on the stove for a sponge bath if
things get rank. Electric water heaters really suck (the power).

The circular plugs are for 240 connection (or two 120s). If you're clever
and cautious, you can rig an adaptor.

Better, for a few lights and a TV, would be... wait for it now, don't get
ahead of me ... AN EXTENSION CORD.

Connect this EXTENSION CORD to an inverter plugged into your car's cigarette
lighter. 2-300 watts ought to do it.

In article , "Pete C." wrote:
Toller wrote:

The real small units are 120V only, a normal transfer switch / interlock
really needs a 240V feed. A small unit like a Honda EU2000i would handle
a refrigerator and a light plugged into it, but is unlikely to handle a
furnace or other larger loads.

I could have sworn it ran my furnace for 5 days two years ago, as well as my
refrigerator and freezer.

It may have depending on what you have for a furnace. In many cases it
won't.

And in many cases it will -- really, the only cases in which it won't are
electric furnaces or heat pumps. The electrical demands of oil- or gas-fired
forced-air furnaces are quite modest, and those of hot-water systems are even
lower. A typical refrigerator requires much more power than a typical gas
furnace.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:

A typical refrigerator requires much more power than a typical gas furnace.

Seems unlikely, unless the fridge contains a 400 watt blower :-)

Nick

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , "Pete C." wrote:
Toller wrote:

The real small units are 120V only, a normal transfer switch / interlock
really needs a 240V feed. A small unit like a Honda EU2000i would handle
a refrigerator and a light plugged into it, but is unlikely to handle a
furnace or other larger loads.

I could have sworn it ran my furnace for 5 days two years ago, as well as my
refrigerator and freezer.

It may have depending on what you have for a furnace. In many cases it
won't.

And in many cases it will -- really, the only cases in which it won't are
electric furnaces or heat pumps. The electrical demands of oil- or gas-fired
forced-air furnaces are quite modest, and those of hot-water systems are even
lower. A typical refrigerator requires much more power than a typical gas
furnace.


Remember, the EU2000i is rated 1,600VA continuous and 2,000VA for 30 min
max. In order to handle many of those furnaces you'd need to do load
management so the furnace was the only load at the time.

Pete C.

HeyBub wrote:

If you have natural gas service, get a gas-powered generator. You NEVER lose
gas during (most) emergencies [maybe during an earthquake?]. With gas, you
won't run out of fuel and the fuel won't go all gamey on you.


An earthquake or a flood are both likely to take out your NG service.
You may be on a hill out of the flood, but if your feed runs through an
area that's under water there is a good chance it will be turned off.
There are other causes of NG outages, but they usually don't align with
electrical outages.

As for fuel getting "gamey", that is simply not a concern if you are
capable of a small amount of maintenance.

Gasoline will readily store just fine for over a year with an additive
like Stabil. Store in 5 gal cans and rotate them out into your car
annually and refill and they'll be just fine.

Diesel will keep even longer if you use diesel Stabil and you can rotate
into your diesel car or truck the same way. If you heat with oil, you
already have a 275 gal + on site fuel supply that a diesel generator
will be 100% happy with and you'll have no fuel rotation issues at all.
Remember that "home heating oil" is also called "off road diesel" and is
what most construction equipment is run on since it's cheaper due to the
lack of transportation fuel taxes.

If you heat with propane and have a big "hot dog" tank, and LP generator
will do nicely and again no fuel rotation or outage issues.

NG is really the only fuel you can't readily store in a useable
quantity. If you have NG service and get gasseous fueled generator, you
can get a big "hot dog" type LP tank as backup since the generator can
readily run on either fuel.

Pete C.

wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:

A typical refrigerator requires much more power than a typical gas
furnace.

Seems unlikely, unless the fridge contains a 400 watt blower :-)

Lets see, my old refrigerator required 23a to start and 3a to run; my
furnace is 2a. Seems higher to me, and neither are unusual. (my new fridge
is 13/1.5)

In article , wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

A typical refrigerator requires much more power than a typical gas furnace.

Seems unlikely, unless the fridge contains a 400 watt blower :-)

Checked a rating plate on a refrigerator lately? I'll bet not.

The one in my kitchen is marked 6.5A. That's a bit more than 400W.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I have a Honda EU2000. It powers my furnace, fridge, freezer, and TV.
Not
only is it nearly silent, but it gets great mileage. If you have ever
tried
to buy gas in a major power outage, you will understand that the smallest
possible generator is the best generator.

No, the smallest generator that will handle your load with some safety
margin is the best generator. You need to maintain a fuel supply to
cover the longest reasonably expected outage.

And what exactly what is a safety margin?

The longest outage we have had around here recently is 12 days. You can't
store a 12 day supply of gas, even for the Honda EU2000. Diesel? Natural
gas? Please!

I keep three 2 gallon cans of gas, and rotate them through my
lawnmower/snowblower. That is enough to keep me up for 2 or 3 days. It
might not be easy, but there is always someplace to buy gas in 3 days.

In article , "Pete C." wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

In article , "Pete C."
wrote:
Toller wrote:

The real small units are 120V only, a normal transfer switch / interlock
really needs a 240V feed. A small unit like a Honda EU2000i would handle
a refrigerator and a light plugged into it, but is unlikely to handle a
furnace or other larger loads.

I could have sworn it ran my furnace for 5 days two years ago, as well as
my
refrigerator and freezer.

It may have depending on what you have for a furnace. In many cases it
won't.

And in many cases it will -- really, the only cases in which it won't are
electric furnaces or heat pumps. The electrical demands of oil- or gas-fired
forced-air furnaces are quite modest, and those of hot-water systems are even
lower. A typical refrigerator requires much more power than a typical gas
furnace.


Remember, the EU2000i is rated 1,600VA continuous and 2,000VA for 30 min
max. In order to handle many of those furnaces you'd need to do load
management so the furnace was the only load at the time.

Nonsense. 1600VA = 13.3A at 120V. Where have you seen a gas furnace with a
blower that pulls thirteen amps? Half that is a little more like it.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Toller wrote:

I have a Honda EU2000. It powers my furnace, fridge, freezer, and TV.
Not
only is it nearly silent, but it gets great mileage. If you have ever
tried
to buy gas in a major power outage, you will understand that the smallest
possible generator is the best generator.

No, the smallest generator that will handle your load with some safety
margin is the best generator. You need to maintain a fuel supply to
cover the longest reasonably expected outage.

And what exactly what is a safety margin?

The longest outage we have had around here recently is 12 days. You can't
store a 12 day supply of gas, even for the Honda EU2000. Diesel? Natural
gas? Please!

BS.

Here now I currently have what would be a 12 day supply of gas for an
EU2000i, about 30 gallons. I cycle through the cans pretty frequently
with the riding mower, towable leaf vac, line trimmer, chain saw and
whatnot, very easy to store. Here I have an EU2000i and a 5 KW Generac.

At my other facility which has oil heat, there is a 275 gallon oil tank
and a 25 KW diesel generator. The generator consumes around .75 gallons
per hour under typical loading so there is about 12 days there as well
when you account for the furnace fuel needs as well.


I keep three 2 gallon cans of gas, and rotate them through my
lawnmower/snowblower. That is enough to keep me up for 2 or 3 days. It
might not be easy, but there is always someplace to buy gas in 3 days.

I keep six 5 gal cans of gas and a 1 gal can of 2 cycle mix. I use
Stabil and have never had an issue with any going bad. It gets rotated
with plenty of frequency.

Pete C.

Doug Miller wrote:

Checked a rating plate on a refrigerator lately?

Yup. Good ones use less than 1 kWh/day.

Nick

In article , wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Checked a rating plate on a refrigerator lately? I'll bet not.

Yup. Good ones use less than 1 kWh/day.

You didn't find that on a rating plate. Like I said...

In any event, it's not especially relevant to how much current they draw when
they're running, as the total energy consumed is a function not only of motor
and compressor efficiency, but also of insulation and usage.

Go check the rating plate on your refrigerator. See how many amps it draws.
Now go check the rating plate on your furnace blower and compare.



--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:

Checked a rating plate on a refrigerator lately?

Yup. Good ones use less than 1 kWh/day.

Nick

That's not a nameplate rating and it's utterly meaningless. The
refrigerator could draw 1 KW if it had a total run time of an hour a
day.

The defrost cycle on a refrigerator doesn't last long, but it draws a
substantial amount of power for the heating element.

Pete C.

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:

In article , "Pete C."
wrote:
Toller wrote:

The real small units are 120V only, a normal transfer switch /
interlock
really needs a 240V feed. A small unit like a Honda EU2000i would
handle
a refrigerator and a light plugged into it, but is unlikely to
handle a
furnace or other larger loads.

I could have sworn it ran my furnace for 5 days two years ago, as well
as my
refrigerator and freezer.

It may have depending on what you have for a furnace. In many cases it
won't.

And in many cases it will -- really, the only cases in which it won't are
electric furnaces or heat pumps. The electrical demands of oil- or
gas-fired
forced-air furnaces are quite modest, and those of hot-water systems are
even
lower. A typical refrigerator requires much more power than a typical gas
furnace.


Remember, the EU2000i is rated 1,600VA continuous and 2,000VA for 30 min
max. In order to handle many of those furnaces you'd need to do load
management so the furnace was the only load at the time.

What is it with you? I ran them all for 5 days simultaneously, stopping to
put gas in once a day. Thats it; no load management, nothing. And I had
spare capacity for a few lights, my computer, or the television. Furnaces
just don't use much current.

Had the refrigerator and freezer chosen to start at the same time the
generator would have stopped to prevent an overload, but it didn't happen
and wasn't likely.

BS.

Here now I currently have what would be a 12 day supply of gas for an
EU2000i, about 30 gallons. I cycle through the cans pretty frequently
with the riding mower, towable leaf vac, line trimmer, chain saw and
whatnot, very easy to store. Here I have an EU2000i and a 5 KW Generac.

At my other facility which has oil heat, there is a 275 gallon oil tank
and a 25 KW diesel generator. The generator consumes around .75 gallons
per hour under typical loading so there is about 12 days there as well
when you account for the furnace fuel needs as well.

Hey, I didn't know you had a riding mower! That pretty much explains it.
Sorry.

Jack wrote:
Had a major electrical re-do of my house, and had the electrician
install a generator connection. I believe they are called "generator
interlock" systems. It is a standard setup, I can throw a switch in
the basement, then plug a generator in outside the house to power the
house in event of a power failure.

(save safety warnings.. I know to put generator outside not near door
or window, and I can't hook Gen up while still connected to municipal
power supply due to lockout system on inside panel, and I know enough
to not overload gen)

What should I look for in considering a generator. I am pretty much
settled on Honda, as in my experience they are just head an shoulders
above all others in reliability and noise. I am prepared to entertain
opposing points of view, but I am willing to pay a little more for a
good unit.

I don't need super-megawatts.. I will be happy to see that my home has
heater, hot water heater (powered venilation unit) and a few lights
and maybe a TV. I don't need to run the AC or electric stove.

Could I get away with one of those tiny suitcase type units.. my
concern is that they seem to only have standard AC plugs on them, not
that special generator circular locking plug that goes into the outside
outlet.

Personal experiences or tips?
Good online sources for info?

I have a Power Boss - Briggs and Stratton - 5500 running watts and 7500
peak. It will handle my refrigerator, two freezers, furnace, well and
a few lights and TV or two. Don't know what your electrician did but
my transfer box was just set up for the essentials I mentioned.
Generator is noisy but has good motor and good generator unit. Cost
half that of a Honda. My neighborhood gets noisy when power is out and
everyone powers up their generator. Honda apparently has a lot of
sound insulation and I read an amusing story in this group where mice
nested in someones Honda generator and harmed the wiring.

Can use 10 gal. gas a day. I keep tank full and have two 5 gal cans.
Stabil added to all gas an purchase date put on cans so I know when I
should use up in lawnmower. Also found water in water heater is hot
enough for shower after more than a day.

Frank

Toller wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:

In article , "Pete C."
wrote:
Toller wrote:

The real small units are 120V only, a normal transfer switch /
interlock
really needs a 240V feed. A small unit like a Honda EU2000i would
handle
a refrigerator and a light plugged into it, but is unlikely to
handle a
furnace or other larger loads.

I could have sworn it ran my furnace for 5 days two years ago, as well
as my
refrigerator and freezer.

It may have depending on what you have for a furnace. In many cases it
won't.

And in many cases it will -- really, the only cases in which it won't are
electric furnaces or heat pumps. The electrical demands of oil- or
gas-fired
forced-air furnaces are quite modest, and those of hot-water systems are
even
lower. A typical refrigerator requires much more power than a typical gas
furnace.


Remember, the EU2000i is rated 1,600VA continuous and 2,000VA for 30 min
max. In order to handle many of those furnaces you'd need to do load
management so the furnace was the only load at the time.

What is it with you? I ran them all for 5 days simultaneously, stopping to
put gas in once a day. Thats it; no load management, nothing. And I had
spare capacity for a few lights, my computer, or the television. Furnaces
just don't use much current.

Had the refrigerator and freezer chosen to start at the same time the
generator would have stopped to prevent an overload, but it didn't happen
and wasn't likely.

What's with me is I properly size the generator to the load and / or
practice load management. I don't rely on fault protective devices to to
cover for poor design and management.

Pete C.

Jack wrote:
Had a major electrical re-do of my house, and had the electrician
install a generator connection. I believe they are called "generator
interlock" systems. It is a standard setup, I can throw a switch in
the basement, then plug a generator in outside the house to power the
house in event of a power failure.

(save safety warnings.. I know to put generator outside not near door
or window, and I can't hook Gen up while still connected to municipal
power supply due to lockout system on inside panel, and I know enough
to not overload gen)

What should I look for in considering a generator. I am pretty much
settled on Honda, as in my experience they are just head an shoulders
above all others in reliability and noise. I am prepared to entertain
opposing points of view, but I am willing to pay a little more for a
good unit.

I don't need super-megawatts.. I will be happy to see that my home has
heater, hot water heater (powered venilation unit) and a few lights
and maybe a TV. I don't need to run the AC or electric stove.

Could I get away with one of those tiny suitcase type units.. my
concern is that they seem to only have standard AC plugs on them, not
that special generator circular locking plug that goes into the outside
outlet.

Personal experiences or tips?
Good online sources for info?

Consider determining your actual load. Run whatever you want the
generator to power for 15 minutes, turn off everything else, and look at
your electric meter before and after the test. Multiply by 4 and you'll
get the watt hours; then, assuming everything is 120 volts, your
generator's amperage needs watt hours divided by 120. E.g., if you need
to provide 3600 watt hours, 3600/120 = 30 amperes. Or more simply, 120
volts x 30 Amps = 3600VA.

Note that this ignores motor startup current which could stall a
generator if it is running nearly full load. It also ignores Power
Factor. But this is better than guessing the size of the generator you
need.

Refrigerator compressors take a LOT of startup current.

Now days, a typical fridge compressor runs about 4.5 amps running
(yes, I'm an appliance repairman, and I get to use an ammeter on
refrigerator compressors now and again). Figure another hundred for
the fans. Which is generous. But the start up current can be 15 amps
or so.

The gas furnaces I've measured tend to run about 7 amps, can't
remember the start up currents.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

wrote in message
...
Doug Miller wrote:

A typical refrigerator requires much more power than a typical gas
furnace.

Seems unlikely, unless the fridge contains a 400 watt blower :-)

Nick

Propane and NG run at widely different pressures. And have different
energy contents. I don't doubt that many generators have multi fuel
ability, but you may need to change an orifice or make other
adjustments to switch fuels.

A local propane tank for the generator sounds like an excellent idea.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
HeyBub wrote:

If you have natural gas service, get a gas-powered generator. You
NEVER lose
gas during (most) emergencies [maybe during an earthquake?]. With
gas, you
won't run out of fuel and the fuel won't go all gamey on you.


An earthquake or a flood are both likely to take out your NG service.
You may be on a hill out of the flood, but if your feed runs through
an
area that's under water there is a good chance it will be turned off.
There are other causes of NG outages, but they usually don't align
with
electrical outages.

As for fuel getting "gamey", that is simply not a concern if you are
capable of a small amount of maintenance.

Gasoline will readily store just fine for over a year with an additive
like Stabil. Store in 5 gal cans and rotate them out into your car
annually and refill and they'll be just fine.

Diesel will keep even longer if you use diesel Stabil and you can
rotate
into your diesel car or truck the same way. If you heat with oil, you
already have a 275 gal + on site fuel supply that a diesel generator
will be 100% happy with and you'll have no fuel rotation issues at
all.
Remember that "home heating oil" is also called "off road diesel" and
is
what most construction equipment is run on since it's cheaper due to
the
lack of transportation fuel taxes.

If you heat with propane and have a big "hot dog" tank, and LP
generator
will do nicely and again no fuel rotation or outage issues.

NG is really the only fuel you can't readily store in a useable
quantity. If you have NG service and get gasseous fueled generator,
you
can get a big "hot dog" type LP tank as backup since the generator can
readily run on either fuel.

Pete C.

Typically about the same four to five amps, much the same as the
compressor.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Pete C." wrote in message
...

That's not a nameplate rating and it's utterly meaningless. The
refrigerator could draw 1 KW if it had a total run time of an hour a
day.

The defrost cycle on a refrigerator doesn't last long, but it draws a
substantial amount of power for the heating element.

Pete C.

Had a major electrical re-do of my house, and had the electrician
install a generator connection. I believe they are called "generator
interlock" systems. It is a standard setup, I can throw a switch in
the basement, then plug a generator in outside the house to power the
house in event of a power failure.
CY: I'd be tempted to get at least 5,000 watts. Coleman makes em for
about $500, but noisy as heck. A generator that size should put out
220 volts, which could be wired to your interlock. that would give you
several conveniences. First, having the house powered. Second, having
a five galon fuel tank on the generator is really nice. Such a device
in quiet Honda would be really nice. Please also invest in at least
one or two big huge chains and padlocks. Generators are very often
stolen.

(save safety warnings.. I know to put generator outside not near door
or window, and I can't hook Gen up while still connected to municipal
power supply due to lockout system on inside panel, and I know enough
to not overload gen)
CY: The interlock would prevent back feeding. Most generators have a
circuit breaker. the factor to consider is also fuel. Every time you
turn something on, you use more fuel. Will you have enough to make it
through the power cut?

What should I look for in considering a generator. I am pretty much
settled on Honda, as in my experience they are just head an shoulders
above all others in reliability and noise. I am prepared to
entertain
opposing points of view, but I am willing to pay a little more for a
good unit.
CY: The couple experiences I've had with Honda convince me they are
first rate equipment.

I don't need super-megawatts.. I will be happy to see that my home has
heater, hot water heater (powered venilation unit) and a few lights
and maybe a TV. I don't need to run the AC or electric stove.
CY: If you figure probably 800 watts for a gas furnace, and maybe 100
for a power vented WH, then a couple more watts for lights and TV,
you'd be well under 5000.

Could I get away with one of those tiny suitcase type units.. my
concern is that they seem to only have standard AC plugs on them, not
that special generator circular locking plug that goes into the
outside
outlet.
CY: probably so. However, with the interlock you'd only power half the
circuits in your house. It would be a guess and miss to power the
correct side.

Personal experiences or tips?
CY: I've got a Coleman 2200 watt. it has run my natural gas furnace a
couple times during power cuts, and a couple friends furnaces. If
you'e going out to help a friend, you'll need to know some electrical
wiring. You'll also need an electric cord off a junk appliance to wire
to the furnace wires. And a couple wire nuts. And extension cords.

Good online sources for info?
CY: May wish to check and see what Honda has to read. Maybe also some
PDF format owners manuals you can read.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Propane and NG run at widely different pressures. And have different
energy contents. I don't doubt that many generators have multi fuel
ability, but you may need to change an orifice or make other
adjustments to switch fuels.

A local propane tank for the generator sounds like an excellent idea.


Nearly all the packaged home standby gensets are NG/LP. Northern tool
has several portably tri-fuel units as well so I'm thinking the fuel
changeover issue has been pretty well resolved. I think the orifice
thing only applies to regular burners.

Pete C.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Typically about the same four to five amps, much the same as the
compressor.


The point was the KWH/Day is not in any way a measure of actual current
draw for anything that doesn't run continuously.

Pete C.