I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
be watchable.

wrote in message
ps.com...
I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
be watchable.


You don't splice cable line. You connect separate pieces using the
connectors. If you need to SPLIT one, you use a splitter box.

wrote in message
ps.com...
I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
be watchable.

Two-way splitters cause a 3 dB loss (the power is cut in half for each
circuit ... actually it is a little more since splitters are not perfect).
Ganging splitters adds another 3 dB loss for each 1 to two split. Some
cable companies provide a rather robust signal and multiple splitting
(within reason) is not a problem. Others provide a marginal signal and even
one splitter shows up as a noisy signal (grainy looking picture). Splitters
are cheap ... just go ahead and try it.

Do I lose more by buying one 8-way splitter than using a two-way
splitter? Or is it the same 3db loss between all these?

A 2-way splitter approximately cuts the signal in half, a 3-way will
give each output 1/3 of the power, etc. However, if you have an 8-way
splitter, but only have 3 cables coming out of it, I'm not sure if each
cable gets 1/3 or 1/8 the power (since you only have 3 "circuits").

On Nov 29, 4:42 pm, " wrote:
Do I lose more by buying one 8-way splitter than using a two-way
splitter? Or is it the same 3db loss between all these?

wrote in message
oups.com...
Do I lose more by buying one 8-way splitter than using a two-way
splitter? Or is it the same 3db loss between all these?

As far as I know, the difference is small (with quality splitters).

Thanks guys, I'll go ahead and get an 8-way and give it a try.
Can I use the crimp type connectors without a special tool? I'm
seeing "compression type" which our cable company uses, and I don't
ahve one of those tools. I do have a simple solderless-terminal
crimper that may work to crimp type connectors.

Do they make one that works better than the crimp type, like one that I
can just screw together or something, there won't be much opportunity
to pull on these lines as they'll be in the wall.

wrote in message
ps.com...
Thanks guys, I'll go ahead and get an 8-way and give it a try.
Can I use the crimp type connectors without a special tool? I'm
seeing "compression type" which our cable company uses, and I don't
ahve one of those tools. I do have a simple solderless-terminal
crimper that may work to crimp type connectors.

Do they make one that works better than the crimp type, like one that I
can just screw together or something, there won't be much opportunity
to pull on these lines as they'll be in the wall.


The solderless terminal crimper will not work correctly, although you lose
nothing but an inch of cable to prove this to yourself. Go buy the right
tool to do the job the way the cable company did it.

By the way, Home Depot carries the right tool. Not expensive.

On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, "
wrote:

I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.

Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
be watchable.

One splice is not terrible, the more you go the faster you will drop
signal.

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:38:09 -0500, Charles Schuler wrote:



wrote in message
ups.com...
I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
be watchable.

Two-way splitters cause a 3 dB loss (the power is cut in half for each
circuit ... actually it is a little more since splitters are not perfect).
Ganging splitters adds another 3 dB loss for each 1 to two split. Some
cable companies provide a rather robust signal and multiple splitting
(within reason) is not a problem. Others provide a marginal signal and even
one splitter shows up as a noisy signal (grainy looking picture). Splitters
are cheap ... just go ahead and try it.


It's best to only split once. Find where the cable is initially split where
it enters the house and replace the three way with a four way. Downside is
that it means running a cable all the way from the cable box to the new TV.
There are also some cheap amplified splitters. I had good results with an
RCA amplified splitter I got from home depot.

" wrote:

Thanks guys, I'll go ahead and get an 8-way and give it a try.
Can I use the crimp type connectors without a special tool? I'm
seeing "compression type" which our cable company uses, and I don't
ahve one of those tools. I do have a simple solderless-terminal
crimper that may work to crimp type connectors.

Do they make one that works better than the crimp type, like one that I
can just screw together or something, there won't be much opportunity
to pull on these lines as they'll be in the wall.

Do *not* get a splitter with more ports than you need. Every split (one
to two) looses 3.5db of signal to each output port whether you have
something connected or not.

There is commonly only a one to two splitter, so every larger splitter
is just a collection of two way splits internally.

Splitter losses:

2 way = two 3.5db loss ports

3 way = two 7db loss ports and one 3.5db loss port

4 way = four 7db loss ports

8 way = eight 14db loss ports

Unused ports should be terminated with 75ohm terminators. Open ports are
a source of both signal leakage which can interfere with over the air
signals including police radios and air traffic control, and also
ingress where these over the air signals can get into the cable and
interfere with the cable signal. Cable companies are required to
periodically survey their entire systems and certify compliance with
maximum leakage limits imposed by the FCC.

Improperly connections such as twist on or set screw F connectors or
improperly done crimp or compression F connectors will also cause
problems. These connections are more sensitive than most people think,
and they are only becoming more sensitive as cable systems expand to
higher frequencies.

There is also signal strength loss from every connector, ground block,
etc. in the system (insertion loss) and loss from every foot of coax
cable. Don't have any more connections than you need or any large excess
of cable in your setup if you want the best signal.

The total signal loss is important in the "forward" direction (from the
cable Co. to you) and even more important in the "reverse" direction
(from you to the cable Co.) if you use things like a cable modem or pay
per view from a two way cable box.

Pete C.
(Used to work for Cox cable)

"Pete C." wrote:

" wrote:

Thanks guys, I'll go ahead and get an 8-way and give it a try.
Can I use the crimp type connectors without a special tool? I'm
seeing "compression type" which our cable company uses, and I don't
ahve one of those tools. I do have a simple solderless-terminal
crimper that may work to crimp type connectors.

Do they make one that works better than the crimp type, like one that I
can just screw together or something, there won't be much opportunity
to pull on these lines as they'll be in the wall.

Do *not* get a splitter with more ports than you need. Every split (one
to two) looses 3.5db of signal to each output port whether you have
something connected or not.

There is commonly only a one to two splitter, so every larger splitter
is just a collection of two way splits internally.

Splitter losses:

2 way = two 3.5db loss ports

3 way = two 7db loss ports and one 3.5db loss port

4 way = four 7db loss ports

8 way = eight 14db loss ports

Unused ports should be terminated with 75ohm terminators. Open ports are
a source of both signal leakage which can interfere with over the air
signals including police radios and air traffic control, and also
ingress where these over the air signals can get into the cable and
interfere with the cable signal. Cable companies are required to
periodically survey their entire systems and certify compliance with
maximum leakage limits imposed by the FCC.

Improperly connections such as twist on or set screw F connectors or
improperly done crimp or compression F connectors will also cause
problems. These connections are more sensitive than most people think,
and they are only becoming more sensitive as cable systems expand to
higher frequencies.

There is also signal strength loss from every connector, ground block,
etc. in the system (insertion loss) and loss from every foot of coax
cable. Don't have any more connections than you need or any large excess
of cable in your setup if you want the best signal.

The total signal loss is important in the "forward" direction (from the
cable Co. to you) and even more important in the "reverse" direction
(from you to the cable Co.) if you use things like a cable modem or pay
per view from a two way cable box.

Pete C.
(Used to work for Cox cable)

Forgot to mention:

You also need to make sure the splitters you use are rated for the
frequencies in use in the cable system. These days it's safest to assume
systems are up to 1GHz so you need a 1GHz rated splitter. An old 750MHz
rated splitter will work for some channels, but you will loose others
that are at higher frequencies because the splitter can't handle them
without substantial attenuation.

Cheap splitters also have poor shielding which can cause leakage and
ingress problems. The shielding rating is usually stamped on the back of
the splitter, 140db is a typical good value for this, less typically
means it's a cheap splitter.

Pete C.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:11:41 -0800, Oren wrote:


On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, "
wrote:

I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.

Compatible? This isn't an automobile engine being installed. It's just
a lousy splitter!

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:11:41 -0800, Oren wrote:


On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, "
wrote:

I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.

Compatible? This isn't an automobile engine being installed. It's just
a lousy splitter!

Ain't it amazing how the nit-pickers crawl onto topics like this one?

A splitter is a low-cost experiment (with no dangerous side issues). Just
try it!

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:30:55 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:11:41 -0800, Oren wrote:


On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, "
wrote:

I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.

Compatible? This isn't an automobile engine being installed. It's just
a lousy splitter!

I was amazed to learn a "dumb" splitter can go bad. Compatible, I mean
what the cable company uses.

Put a lousy splitter on and they say; "the splitter is the problem".

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

Put a lousy splitter on and they say; "the splitter is the problem".

Of course they say that. I have a digital cable Internet connection and
when I call for service, the first words out of the technicians mouth are
"Have you installed a splitter?" Fie on them!

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:34:55 -0500, "Charles Schuler"
wrote:


"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:11:41 -0800, Oren wrote:


On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, "
wrote:

I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.

Compatible? This isn't an automobile engine being installed. It's just
a lousy splitter!

Ain't it amazing how the nit-pickers crawl onto topics like this one?

A splitter is a low-cost experiment (with no dangerous side issues). Just
try it!


Here is low-cost. Called the cable company and within an hour they
arrived, replaced a problem splitter. No cost, gas, or nit-picking.






--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:00:21 -0500, "Charles Schuler"
wrote:


Put a lousy splitter on and they say; "the splitter is the problem".

Of course they say that. I have a digital cable Internet connection and
when I call for service, the first words out of the technicians mouth are
"Have you installed a splitter?" Fie on them!


I usually get something else from them, but it is a 'pat answer".

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

wrote in message
ps.com...
I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
be watchable.


do yourself a favor and buy a signal amplifer. they plug into a regular
outlet and boost the cable signal so you don't have to worry about loosing
the signal. you run your main cable into (screw on or push on terminal)
the amplifer then out to the feed to the rest of the house by way of your
splitters.

mike...........

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
. ..

Put a lousy splitter on and they say; "the splitter is the problem".

Of course they say that. I have a digital cable Internet connection and
when I call for service, the first words out of the technicians mouth are
"Have you installed a splitter?" Fie on them!


My cable company has been happy to give me the appropriate
splitter rather than me buying a rat-shack one. They don't like
bad parts in their system. It can cause problems on your neighbor's
reception.

Bob

"JerseyMike" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ps.com...
I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
be watchable.


do yourself a favor and buy a signal amplifer. they plug into a regular
outlet and boost the cable signal so you don't have to worry about loosing
the signal. you run your main cable into (screw on or push on terminal)
the amplifer then out to the feed to the rest of the house by way of your
splitters.

Sure, but 0 dBm is a robust signal and that level is supplied to many homes
.... 0 dbm is a milliwatt (that might not sound like much, but is a huge
signal given the sensitivity of modern television receivers).

AZ Nomad wrote:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:11:41 -0800, Oren wrote:

On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, "
wrote:

I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.

Compatible? This isn't an automobile engine being installed. It's just
a lousy splitter!

Using say an old 500MHz rated splitter on a current 1GHz cable system
will knock out half your channels, probably cable modem, etc.

Pete C.

Actually, analog television is more dependent on a clean strong signal than
Hi Def. This is because Hi Def is a digital signal, as long as there is
enough signal to work with it will work. Basically it either works properly
or not at all.


wrote in message
ps.com...
I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
be watchable.

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
. ..

"JerseyMike" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ps.com...
I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
be watchable.


do yourself a favor and buy a signal amplifer. they plug into a regular
outlet and boost the cable signal so you don't have to worry about
loosing
the signal. you run your main cable into (screw on or push on
terminal)
the amplifer then out to the feed to the rest of the house by way of
your
splitters.

Sure, but 0 dBm is a robust signal and that level is supplied to many
homes
... 0 dbm is a milliwatt (that might not sound like much, but is a huge
signal given the sensitivity of modern television receivers).



well then, with very good splitters and a signal amplifer, he should never
have a problem no matter how many tv sets he wants to set up.


mike...........

Charles Schuler wrote:

Put a lousy splitter on and they say; "the splitter is the problem".

Of course they say that. I have a digital cable Internet connection and
when I call for service, the first words out of the technicians mouth are
"Have you installed a splitter?" Fie on them!

If you install a new (additional) splitter (before the cable modem) you
attenuate both the upstream and downstream signals to/from it by 3.5db
or more. A cable modem should be at the start of the system in your
premises, ideally at a first two way splitter and any additional splits
needed will be on the other output from that first split. This insures a
maximum 3.5db attenuation from the cable drop.

It makes a difference - really, even bending the coax makes a
difference.

Back when I worked for the cable company we took all the new installers
into the converter and line gear repair room where we had a sweep
tester. We would cut a fresh piece of coax from a spool, install F
connectors on it and connect it to the sweep tester.

A sweep tester injects a test signal into the coax that sweeps from low
frequency up to high frequency and it monitors this signal from the
other end of the coax and displays a trace on the screen in real time
showing the signal strength received. A nice 10' piece of coax gives a
nice flat line normally.

After noting the flat line we would then start to flex the coax and
start to kink it a little, squeeze it a bit with pliers and whatnot. The
trace on the screen would go nuts showing all kinds of odd signal
attenuation at different frequencies due to the cable damage.

This demonstration did a good job of convincing the new techs that the
coax was not like an extension cord and damage to it made a real
difference. They were much more careful to avoid damaging the coax when
installing drops.

Pete C.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:41:58 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:


"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
...

Put a lousy splitter on and they say; "the splitter is the problem".

Of course they say that. I have a digital cable Internet connection and
when I call for service, the first words out of the technicians mouth are
"Have you installed a splitter?" Fie on them!


My cable company has been happy to give me the appropriate
splitter rather than me buying a rat-shack one. They don't like
bad parts in their system. It can cause problems on your neighbor's
reception.

As our cable company updated hardware... they came to my house when
called. and up-dated a previous company splitter. I had it reduced
from a 4-way to a 3-way. I can always add the 4th run in again, but
not necessary now.

People think going to rat-shack for a "dumb passive device" is
cheaper or best. No one has explained to my understanding how a "dumb
passive device" fails; nor would I understand it.

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

Oren wrote:

People think going to rat-shack for a "dumb passive device" is
cheaper or best. No one has explained to my understanding how a "dumb
passive device" fails; nor would I understand it.


Two "failure" modes, one representing a real failu

The first possibility is you use a cheap splitter that is rated for say
500MHz. The cable company has been installing 1GHz rated splitters in
preparation for their planned system upgrade. You splitter works ok now,
but when the upgrade comes through the new channels are all snowy
because your splitter can't pass the higher frequencies without
excessive attenuation. This is not an actual failure, it's a mismatch
between your older splitter and the newer cable system.

The second possibility is that a cheap splitter is built poorly, has bad
solder connections, flux wasn't cleaned of the PC board, contacts
weren't plated properly, etc. Over time the connections deteriorate and
eventually fail. This is a real failure of the passive device.

Pete C.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:07:31 -0800, Oren wrote:


On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:34:55 -0500, "Charles Schuler"
wrote:


"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:11:41 -0800, Oren wrote:


On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, "
wrote:

I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.

Compatible? This isn't an automobile engine being installed. It's just
a lousy splitter!

Ain't it amazing how the nit-pickers crawl onto topics like this one?

A splitter is a low-cost experiment (with no dangerous side issues). Just
try it!


Here is low-cost. Called the cable company and within an hour they
arrived, replaced a problem splitter. No cost, gas, or nit-picking.


Did you make sure he used a compatible splitter? :-p

JerseyMike wrote:

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
. ..

"JerseyMike" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ps.com...
I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
be watchable.


do yourself a favor and buy a signal amplifer. they plug into a regular
outlet and boost the cable signal so you don't have to worry about
loosing
the signal. you run your main cable into (screw on or push on
terminal)
the amplifer then out to the feed to the rest of the house by way of
your
splitters.

Sure, but 0 dBm is a robust signal and that level is supplied to many
homes
... 0 dbm is a milliwatt (that might not sound like much, but is a huge
signal given the sensitivity of modern television receivers).



well then, with very good splitters and a signal amplifer, he should never
have a problem no matter how many tv sets he wants to set up.

mike...........

Not really, if the gain is adjusted improperly he's just as likely to
have a signal overload at the receivers and poor quality.

We once had a more dramatic case of signal overload at the cable company
on some satellite receivers. Late one evening we changed out the LNBs on
the big 10m satellite dish with newer, better ones with lower noise
figures. We went back in to the head end and noticed that the AGC LEDs
on the 8 satellite receivers fed from those LNBs were all red.
Investigating further we found that the new LNBs were so much better
that they were providing a signal too strong for the AGCs on the
receivers to compensate for. We had to install something like a 6db
attenuator on the feed to make the receivers happy.

We also had to delete a half dozen voice mails complaining about the
hour long loss of a pay per view channel, a channel where we had checked
the pay per view computer and determined there were no buys. Amazing how
people stealing cable are dumb enough to complain about it. If we felt
like it we could have saved those voice mails and let the security folks
track down and prosecute the offenders.

Pete C.

EXT wrote:

Actually, analog television is more dependent on a clean strong signal than
Hi Def. This is because Hi Def is a digital signal, as long as there is
enough signal to work with it will work. Basically it either works properly
or not at all.


Not entirely true. First off all of the lower tier channels on most
cable systems are still analog so they will be pretty sensitive to
signal strength. Secondly, while digital signals don't gradually degrade
in picture quality like analog ones do, there is still a threshold point
where reception will be marginal and the picture will show significant
digital artifacts due to dropouts.

Pete C.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:17:27 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:38:09 -0500, Charles Schuler wrote:



wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i start to
lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky about
signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still gotta
be watchable.

Two-way splitters cause a 3 dB loss (the power is cut in half for each
circuit ... actually it is a little more since splitters are not perfect).
Ganging splitters adds another 3 dB loss for each 1 to two split. Some
cable companies provide a rather robust signal and multiple splitting
(within reason) is not a problem. Others provide a marginal signal and even
one splitter shows up as a noisy signal (grainy looking picture). Splitters
are cheap ... just go ahead and try it.


It's best to only split once. Find where the cable is initially split where
it enters the house and replace the three way with a four way. Downside is
that it means running a cable all the way from the cable box to the new TV.
There are also some cheap amplified splitters. I had good results with an
RCA amplified splitter I got from home depot.

I'd be better to keep the amplifier separate, so you get to use only
what you need. A too-strong signal is as bad as a too-weak one.
--
26 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
JerseyMike wrote:

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
. ..

"JerseyMike" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ps.com...
I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and
buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Does anyone know what the biggest splice I can use is before i
start to
lose signal quality to a noticable level? We're not too picky
about
signal as we don't have Hi-definition or anything, but it's still
gotta
be watchable.


do yourself a favor and buy a signal amplifer. they plug into a
regular
outlet and boost the cable signal so you don't have to worry about
loosing
the signal. you run your main cable into (screw on or push on
terminal)
the amplifer then out to the feed to the rest of the house by way of
your
splitters.

Sure, but 0 dBm is a robust signal and that level is supplied to many
homes
... 0 dbm is a milliwatt (that might not sound like much, but is a
huge
signal given the sensitivity of modern television receivers).



well then, with very good splitters and a signal amplifer, he should
never
have a problem no matter how many tv sets he wants to set up.

mike...........

Not really, if the gain is adjusted improperly he's just as likely to
have a signal overload at the receivers and poor quality.

We once had a more dramatic case of signal overload at the cable company
on some satellite receivers. Late one evening we changed out the LNBs on
the big 10m satellite dish with newer, better ones with lower noise
figures. We went back in to the head end and noticed that the AGC LEDs
on the 8 satellite receivers fed from those LNBs were all red.
Investigating further we found that the new LNBs were so much better
that they were providing a signal too strong for the AGCs on the
receivers to compensate for. We had to install something like a 6db
attenuator on the feed to make the receivers happy.

We also had to delete a half dozen voice mails complaining about the
hour long loss of a pay per view channel, a channel where we had checked
the pay per view computer and determined there were no buys. Amazing how
people stealing cable are dumb enough to complain about it. If we felt
like it we could have saved those voice mails and let the security folks
track down and prosecute the offenders.

Pete C.

well i have no clue what any of that means, but i'm running pretty much the
same set up as he is and what i described to him, and have never had a
problem. when i've disconnected the amp. i've noticed a difference in the
picture. reconnect the amp and the picture is great. Comcast is our cable
provider and we're not in a rural area or have issues like that, but i'm
running 5 tv's off the regualr feed.

mike.........

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 00:07:15 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Oren wrote:

People think going to rat-shack for a "dumb passive device" is
cheaper or best. No one has explained to my understanding how a "dumb
passive device" fails; nor would I understand it.


Two "failure" modes, one representing a real failu

The first possibility is you use a cheap splitter that is rated for say
500MHz. The cable company has been installing 1GHz rated splitters in
preparation for their planned system upgrade. You splitter works ok now,
but when the upgrade comes through the new channels are all snowy
because your splitter can't pass the higher frequencies without
excessive attenuation. This is not an actual failure, it's a mismatch
between your older splitter and the newer cable system.

Really the device has not failed; only limited by it's ability to pass
the frequencies? (cable company)

The second possibility is that a cheap splitter is built poorly, has bad
solder connections, flux wasn't cleaned of the PC board, contacts
weren't plated properly, etc. Over time the connections deteriorate and
eventually fail. This is a real failure of the passive device.

I can see how quality assurance failure would make a dumb device
"stupid".

Thank you...

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 00:11:50 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:
Did you make sure he used a compatible splitter? :-p

He did. And I greased his palm.

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:33:20 -0600, Mark Lloyd wrote:


On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:17:27 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:
....

It's best to only split once. Find where the cable is initially split where
it enters the house and replace the three way with a four way. Downside is
that it means running a cable all the way from the cable box to the new TV.
There are also some cheap amplified splitters. I had good results with an
RCA amplified splitter I got from home depot.

I'd be better to keep the amplifier separate, so you get to use only
what you need. A too-strong signal is as bad as a too-weak one.

Agreed, although that cheapo RCA didn't seem to overamplify. If you go with an
amplified splitter, it should be a close to the cable box as possible. If
you've lost your signal by running splitter after splitter, using an amplifier
won't recover your signal from the noise.

I had a multimedia computer with 3 video inputs (three capture cards); add to
that a VCR and TVs in three other rooms and I had 7 devices that needed a
signal. I ran a three way splitter at the cable box, and then two runs each to a
four way amplified splitter. The third run went to a cable modem.

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
EXT wrote:

Actually, analog television is more dependent on a clean strong signal
than
Hi Def. This is because Hi Def is a digital signal, as long as there is
enough signal to work with it will work. Basically it either works
properly
or not at all.





Not entirely true. First off all of the lower tier channels on most
cable systems are still analog so they will be pretty sensitive to
signal strength.

Why then do some homes have a picture that in all respects is near to
perfect as analog gets and other have snow and ghosting. In other words what
is the range for analog signal strength between best case and drop out. You
say pretty sensitive and visually one wouldn't guess that not to be the
case.



Secondly, while digital signals don't gradually degrade
in picture quality like analog ones do, there is still a threshold point
where reception will be marginal and the picture will show significant
digital artifacts due to dropouts.

Pete C.

Isn't the threshold between digital signal showing macro blocking to drop
out pretty small and effected by other factors other then simply the signal
strength. Can't a digital signal be effected by the tuner and reciever
components to a degree that will effect the minimum signal strength it will
work at?

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 01:26:58 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 18:33:20 -0600, Mark Lloyd wrote:


On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:17:27 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:
...

It's best to only split once. Find where the cable is initially split where
it enters the house and replace the three way with a four way. Downside is
that it means running a cable all the way from the cable box to the new TV.
There are also some cheap amplified splitters. I had good results with an
RCA amplified splitter I got from home depot.

I'd be better to keep the amplifier separate, so you get to use only
what you need. A too-strong signal is as bad as a too-weak one.

Agreed, although that cheapo RCA didn't seem to overamplify. If you go with an
amplified splitter, it should be a close to the cable box as possible. l If
you've lost your signal by running splitter after splitter, using an amplifier
won't recover your signal from the noise.


Right. The amplifier needs to be connected at a point BEFORE the
signal loss occurs. That is, before the splitters.

I had a multimedia computer with 3 video inputs (three capture cards); add to
that a VCR and TVs in three other rooms and I had 7 devices that needed a
signal. I ran a three way splitter at the cable box, and then two runs each to a
four way amplified splitter. The third run went to a cable modem.

A cable modem (and/or digital cable box) are best connected before any
amplifiers (and with minimum splitters) because these devices also
send signals to the cable office.
--
26 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:07:31 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:34:55 -0500, "Charles Schuler"
wrote:


"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:11:41 -0800, Oren wrote:


On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, "
wrote:

I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.

Compatible? This isn't an automobile engine being installed. It's just
a lousy splitter!

Ain't it amazing how the nit-pickers crawl onto topics like this one?

A splitter is a low-cost experiment (with no dangerous side issues). Just
try it!


Here is low-cost. Called the cable company and within an hour they
arrived, replaced a problem splitter. No cost, gas, or nit-picking.

OK, if you have nothing against them messing with your system. This
might be a problem if you have some special requirements (like an IR
distribution system requiring DC bypasses around splitters).
--
26 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:54:59 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:30:55 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:11:41 -0800, Oren wrote:


On 29 Nov 2006 13:20:49 -0800, "
wrote:

I have a three way splice from the cable company, and would like to
splice it yet again for a fourth television. Should I go out and buy
a 4-way splice, or can I just hook a two-way on to an existing run?

Your cable company will change out your splitter. Cheap is not better
in this case. Something compatible with the cable company is best.

Compatible? This isn't an automobile engine being installed. It's just
a lousy splitter!

I was amazed to learn a "dumb" splitter can go bad. Compatible, I mean
what the cable company uses.


Compatible with the frequency range used.

Put a lousy splitter on and they say; "the splitter is the problem".
--
26 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy