'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, original kitchen.

I need to remove maybe 2 sq. feet of the wall to replace a
corroded drain pipe. Wall is ceramic tile in front of traditional
plaster on steel lath. After repair of drain, I need to repair
wall. Never worked with tile before.

How to do it?

It occurred to me that I *might* be able to cut thru both grout
and plaster/lath and remove a square without destroying the tile
(if I can come up with the right saw apparati). Might this be
practical? If so, how might one *replace* the removed square,
permanently mounting it back in the wall?

Or do I bark up the wrong tree? :-)

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

ullo yaself !

If the tile is plain old white 4x4, this is a lot easier, if not...

If the tile is something that might be diffifult to match perfectly
then the key thing is to save the tile, and you won't do that by prying
it up. Everything else can be put back together, and the grout can be
matched. It's a messy job in ways.

Seems like you could use something like a Dremel to cut thru the grout
and then all the way thru the plaster and lathe, then remove the
section. Chip the plaster from the tiles. Fix the pipe. Then attach
drywall, shimming if necessary to build it up to be as thick as the
plaster. May have to build additional mini-framing onto the studs for
the 2x2 piece of drywall, so that it can attach to something. That is,
if you take out a 2x2 section and your studs are 16" apart as they
should be, that could leave you with an 8" section of drywall just
hanging there, so you'd have to jimmy rig something underneath.

Once the drywall is up, prime it (I think), then glue on the tiles,
then re-grout.

Viola!

Do not plan on any reuse of the tile. If you really do want to
put up with a lot of dust and mess, you could saw the opening with
a dry diamond blade on a circular saw or grinder. This could
possibly give you a piece to reinstall with caulk at the
perimeter. The amount of dust is tremendous.

I think your time would be better served to plan on a decorative
cap of some type. Wainscoat? Metal cover? I can't envision a
circumstance with the tile wall exposed. I would guess it to be
under the cabinet, behind the refrigerator or some other
appliance. The drain pipe will be about 18" off the floor.

Perhaps you can pinpoint the intersection of cast iron and sink
drain. At this point you could possibly cut a circular hole to
access the pipe with another hole at the sink, though it will be
difficult to route the pipe out of and into the studs. The
circular hole(s) could be capped with a blank escutcheon. This
still means dust unless you go to the expense and mess of a wet
diamond cut.
___________________________
Keep the whole world singing. . . .
DanG


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
news

'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, original kitchen.

I need to remove maybe 2 sq. feet of the wall to replace a
corroded drain pipe. Wall is ceramic tile in front of
traditional
plaster on steel lath. After repair of drain, I need to repair
wall. Never worked with tile before.

How to do it?

It occurred to me that I *might* be able to cut thru both grout
and plaster/lath and remove a square without destroying the tile
(if I can come up with the right saw apparati). Might this be
practical? If so, how might one *replace* the removed square,
permanently mounting it back in the wall?

Or do I bark up the wrong tree? :-)

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

On 26 Nov 2006 09:18:08 -0800, wrote:

ullo yaself !

If the tile is plain old white 4x4, this is a lot easier, if not...

Plain white/cream, measure about 4 3/8 " square.

If the tile is something that might be diffifult to match perfectly
then the key thing is to save the tile, and you won't do that by prying
it up. Everything else can be put back together, and the grout can be
matched. It's a messy job in ways.

Seems like you could use something like a Dremel to cut thru the grout
and then all the way thru the plaster and lathe, then remove the
section.

If Dremel's got a cutting wheel of the appropriate diameter,
and capable of going thru the steel lath.

Chip the plaster from the tiles. Fix the pipe. Then attach
drywall, shimming if necessary to build it up to be as thick as the
plaster. May have to build additional mini-framing onto the studs for
the 2x2 piece of drywall, so that it can attach to something. That is,
if you take out a 2x2 section and your studs are 16" apart as they
should be, that could leave you with an 8" section of drywall just
hanging there, so you'd have to jimmy rig something underneath.

Definitely an important consideration.

I haven't spec'd the studs yet. 99% sure they are 16" centers.
Gotta estimate the pipe juncture, then map maybe 12" in each
direction if that'd catch the studs right ...

I cut wood, so shims shouldn't be a problem.

Once the drywall is up, prime it (I think), then glue on the tiles,
then re-grout.

Viola!

This is helpful. Much thanks.

Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
news

'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, original kitchen.

I need to remove maybe 2 sq. feet of the wall to replace a
corroded drain pipe. Wall is ceramic tile in front of traditional
plaster on steel lath. After repair of drain, I need to repair
wall. Never worked with tile before.

How to do it?

It occurred to me that I *might* be able to cut thru both grout
and plaster/lath and remove a square without destroying the tile
(if I can come up with the right saw apparati). Might this be
practical? If so, how might one *replace* the removed square,
permanently mounting it back in the wall?

Or do I bark up the wrong tree? :-)

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

I assume a basement and cast iron pipe in 1954 contraction.


You can also replace the pipe by cutting it before the last connection to
the stack, remove the pipe from this connection then replace with PVC pipe
coming up through the floor and cabinet at the rear of the cabinet. If the
pipe in the wall is corroded it is possible the remaining pipe to the stack
is in similar condition. A little more plumbing involved but you don't have
to do major work to the wall.

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:07:37 GMT, Puddin' Man
wrote:

Seems like you could use something like a Dremel to cut thru the grout
and then all the way thru the plaster and lathe, then remove the
section.

If Dremel's got a cutting wheel of the appropriate diameter,
and capable of going thru the steel lath.

A Dremel would not be my choice. A grinder as mentioned previously.
You could make a plastic tent in the immediate work area to contain
the dust. The grinder will make fast work of the lath, etc.

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:37:56 -0600, "DanG" wrote:

Do not plan on any reuse of the tile.

I was afeared ...

If you really do want to
put up with a lot of dust and mess, you could saw the opening with
a dry diamond blade on a circular saw or grinder. This could
possibly give you a piece to reinstall with caulk at the
perimeter. The amount of dust is tremendous.

The dust issue occurred to me. Hulluva mess.

I think your time would be better served to plan on a decorative
cap of some type. Wainscoat? Metal cover? I can't envision a
circumstance with the tile wall exposed. I would guess it to be
under the cabinet, behind the refrigerator or some other
appliance. The drain pipe will be about 18" off the floor.

I shoulda mentioned, it's all behind the gas range. Still,
I need to put something substantial in the hole.

Perhaps you can pinpoint the intersection of cast iron and sink
drain.

I can get purty close measuring wall to stack in basement,
wall to point in kitchen, height from floor.

At this point you could possibly cut a circular hole to

I've not worked with a tile cutter and I don't have one ...

access the pipe with another hole at the sink,

About 4" of the copper drain are already exposed under the sink.

though it will be
difficult to route the pipe out of and into the studs.

Copper drain is 30' long or so. Centers are 16". OD of
PVC would be greater than OD of copper? I guess maybe they
reamed 2+" holes in the studs?

The
circular hole(s) could be capped with a blank escutcheon. This
still means dust unless you go to the expense and mess of a wet
diamond cut.

I'm mostly worried about a plan to fix right now.

Would love to be able to securely mount a substantial removable
cover instead of hassling tile replacement, but I got nooooo idea
what's available. Suppose maybe I could custom cut/fashion one from
wood.

Thanks,
Puddin'

"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
news

'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, original kitchen.

I need to remove maybe 2 sq. feet of the wall to replace a
corroded drain pipe. Wall is ceramic tile in front of
traditional
plaster on steel lath. After repair of drain, I need to repair
wall. Never worked with tile before.

How to do it?

It occurred to me that I *might* be able to cut thru both grout
and plaster/lath and remove a square without destroying the tile
(if I can come up with the right saw apparati). Might this be
practical? If so, how might one *replace* the removed square,
permanently mounting it back in the wall?

Or do I bark up the wrong tree? :-)

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:24:16 -0500, "jolt"
wrote:


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
news

'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, original kitchen.

I need to remove maybe 2 sq. feet of the wall to replace a
corroded drain pipe. Wall is ceramic tile in front of traditional
plaster on steel lath. After repair of drain, I need to repair
wall. Never worked with tile before.

How to do it?

It occurred to me that I *might* be able to cut thru both grout
and plaster/lath and remove a square without destroying the tile
(if I can come up with the right saw apparati). Might this be
practical? If so, how might one *replace* the removed square,
permanently mounting it back in the wall?

Or do I bark up the wrong tree? :-)

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

I assume a basement and cast iron pipe in 1954 contraction.

Yeah, it's a roof-vented cast iron stack with lead/oakum joints,
installed in 1954.

You can also replace the pipe by cutting it before the last connection to
the stack, remove the pipe from this connection then replace with PVC pipe
coming up through the floor and cabinet at the rear of the cabinet. If the
pipe in the wall is corroded it is possible the remaining pipe to the stack
is in similar condition. A little more plumbing involved but you don't have
to do major work to the wall.

Lost po' me on part of this.

About 4" of the bad copper pipe is exposed under the sink. There's
an elbow there, and the part that joined to PVC was badly corroded.
The other 26" of the pipe is behind the wall.

I presently have noooooooooo access to the copper/iron joint.
Assume I have to tear hole in wall.

Thx,
P

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 10:29:48 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:07:37 GMT, Puddin' Man
wrote:

Seems like you could use something like a Dremel to cut thru the grout
and then all the way thru the plaster and lathe, then remove the
section.

If Dremel's got a cutting wheel of the appropriate diameter,
and capable of going thru the steel lath.

A Dremel would not be my choice. A grinder as mentioned previously.

Might be a bit much for my little $30 Dremel.

You could make a plastic tent in the immediate work area to contain
the dust.

Yeah, I've done that with concrete work before.

The grinder will make fast work of the lath, etc.

Prolly lots of sparks. Fire extinguisher handy.

Thx,
P

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

Crikey, if it's behind the range just plop a wood panel in place of the
tiled piece.

Always good to put something substantial in the hole !

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 20:34:03 GMT, Puddin' Man
wrote:

The grinder will make fast work of the lath, etc.

Prolly lots of sparks. Fire extinguisher handy.

Not likely necessary. The lath is easy to cut. If it was exposed now
use a pair of tin snips to clip it out.

--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

Buy a sheet of FRP (fiberglass reinforced panel) and the
appropriate cap trim. This stuff is bullet proof, thin, easy to
cut and apply (panel adhesive), and looks ok behind the stove.
Super easy to wash, etc.

about a $1/SF. Here is a sample, I know you have seen this stuff
at commercial restaurants, etc:
http://www.kemlite.com/pdf/6234_glas_lit.pdf

They also make a tile version (quite a bit more expensive)
http://www.kemlite.com/frpdesign/matrex.cfm

___________________________
Keep the whole world singing. . . .
DanG


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:37:56 -0600, "DanG"
wrote:

Do not plan on any reuse of the tile.

I was afeared ...

If you really do want to
put up with a lot of dust and mess, you could saw the opening
with
a dry diamond blade on a circular saw or grinder. This could
possibly give you a piece to reinstall with caulk at the
perimeter. The amount of dust is tremendous.

The dust issue occurred to me. Hulluva mess.

I think your time would be better served to plan on a decorative
cap of some type. Wainscoat? Metal cover? I can't envision a
circumstance with the tile wall exposed. I would guess it to be
under the cabinet, behind the refrigerator or some other
appliance. The drain pipe will be about 18" off the floor.

I shoulda mentioned, it's all behind the gas range. Still,
I need to put something substantial in the hole.

Perhaps you can pinpoint the intersection of cast iron and sink
drain.

I can get purty close measuring wall to stack in basement,
wall to point in kitchen, height from floor.

At this point you could possibly cut a circular hole to

I've not worked with a tile cutter and I don't have one ...

access the pipe with another hole at the sink,

About 4" of the copper drain are already exposed under the sink.

though it will be
difficult to route the pipe out of and into the studs.

Copper drain is 30' long or so. Centers are 16". OD of
PVC would be greater than OD of copper? I guess maybe they
reamed 2+" holes in the studs?

The
circular hole(s) could be capped with a blank escutcheon. This
still means dust unless you go to the expense and mess of a wet
diamond cut.

I'm mostly worried about a plan to fix right now.

Would love to be able to securely mount a substantial removable
cover instead of hassling tile replacement, but I got nooooo
idea
what's available. Suppose maybe I could custom cut/fashion one
from
wood.

Thanks,
Puddin'

"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
news

'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, original kitchen.

I need to remove maybe 2 sq. feet of the wall to replace a
corroded drain pipe. Wall is ceramic tile in front of
traditional
plaster on steel lath. After repair of drain, I need to repair
wall. Never worked with tile before.

How to do it?

It occurred to me that I *might* be able to cut thru both
grout
and plaster/lath and remove a square without destroying the
tile
(if I can come up with the right saw apparati). Might this be
practical? If so, how might one *replace* the removed square,
permanently mounting it back in the wall?

Or do I bark up the wrong tree? :-)

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:24:16 -0500, "jolt"
wrote:


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
news

'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, original kitchen.

I need to remove maybe 2 sq. feet of the wall to replace a
corroded drain pipe. Wall is ceramic tile in front of traditional
plaster on steel lath. After repair of drain, I need to repair
wall. Never worked with tile before.

How to do it?

It occurred to me that I *might* be able to cut thru both grout
and plaster/lath and remove a square without destroying the tile
(if I can come up with the right saw apparati). Might this be
practical? If so, how might one *replace* the removed square,
permanently mounting it back in the wall?

Or do I bark up the wrong tree? :-)

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

I assume a basement and cast iron pipe in 1954 contraction.

Yeah, it's a roof-vented cast iron stack with lead/oakum joints,
installed in 1954.

You can also replace the pipe by cutting it before the last connection to
the stack, remove the pipe from this connection then replace with PVC pipe
coming up through the floor and cabinet at the rear of the cabinet. If the
pipe in the wall is corroded it is possible the remaining pipe to the
stack
is in similar condition. A little more plumbing involved but you don't
have
to do major work to the wall.

Lost po' me on part of this.

About 4" of the bad copper pipe is exposed under the sink. There's
an elbow there, and the part that joined to PVC was badly corroded.
The other 26" of the pipe is behind the wall.

I presently have noooooooooo access to the copper/iron joint.
Assume I have to tear hole in wall.

Thx,
P

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

Abandon the old line and run a new line. If you have a basement to work in,
running a new line into the stack should not be difficult. The new line is
not run in the wall but up thru the floor ....into the cabinet at a location
in the cabinet that will allow enough room to get the trap into the new
waste line.

Picture all you connections under the sink, no pipe in the wall. This is
how a sink is plumbed if the sinks cabinet is not up against a wall. Quick
easy and no work to the wall is required.

Can you get at the area from the other side of the wall and not have to mess
with the tile at all? Fixing a pastered wall and re-painting would be a lot
less work than having to tackle the tile.


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
news

'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, original kitchen.

I need to remove maybe 2 sq. feet of the wall to replace a
corroded drain pipe. Wall is ceramic tile in front of traditional
plaster on steel lath. After repair of drain, I need to repair
wall. Never worked with tile before.

How to do it?

It occurred to me that I *might* be able to cut thru both grout
and plaster/lath and remove a square without destroying the tile
(if I can come up with the right saw apparati). Might this be
practical? If so, how might one *replace* the removed square,
permanently mounting it back in the wall?

Or do I bark up the wrong tree? :-)

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 04:30:18 GMT, "Mark" wrote:

Can you get at the area from the other side of the wall and not have to mess
with the tile at all?

Wish I could. It's an exterior wall: masonry block
behind pipe.

Fixing a pastered wall and re-painting would be a lot
less work than having to tackle the tile.


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
news

'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, original kitchen.

I need to remove maybe 2 sq. feet of the wall to replace a
corroded drain pipe. Wall is ceramic tile in front of traditional
plaster on steel lath. After repair of drain, I need to repair
wall. Never worked with tile before.

How to do it?

It occurred to me that I *might* be able to cut thru both grout
and plaster/lath and remove a square without destroying the tile
(if I can come up with the right saw apparati). Might this be
practical? If so, how might one *replace* the removed square,
permanently mounting it back in the wall?

Or do I bark up the wrong tree? :-)

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...


Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...